EPT[Code S] RO32 - Group F Preview/Group H Recap - Page 9
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FuRong
New Zealand3089 Posts
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GhandiEAGLE
United States20754 Posts
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dezi
Germany1536 Posts
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
Although TvP looked practically impossible last night, I think it's being blown out of proportion. Terrans are still doing fine (IPL 4 champion bracket was 5 Terran, 2 Zerg, 1 Protoss, GSL already has half of its advancing players as Terrans, with 5 opportunities left to boot), if TvP starts looking like it did yesterday on a regular basis, then it will need to be fixed, but in the meanwhile, hold your horses. Hell, Protoss went through months on end of borderline extinction before anything happened, and frankly, Zerg are looking to be in the most trouble this season. At best, they'll have July, Leenock and Nestea. And as has been mentioned in this article, Leenock's group is ridiculously hard. Terran balance whine is the StarCraft equivalent of the "first world problems" meme. When you get ecstatic because even one Terran made it through to the round of 16, come back to see me. Nada! I believe in you! I totally believe... well, okay, I don't really. But Slayers Boxer's not here right now so you'll have to do. Best grab a win while you can, 'cause next season is totally the Emperor's. My faith is absolute :D. EDIT: Added spoilers so the balance whine could be neatly kept away from the important matters. | ||
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zerO123
1 Post
ForGG and Polt mainly used "old" builds - FE into 3 Rax (2 tech labs, 1 reactor) medivac pressure. In their builds, their +1 weapons are significantly delayed. Contrast their builds to MKP's "new" build that he used almost 100% of his TvP in IPL4: FE into 3 Rax (2 REACTOR, 1 tech lab), fast +1, medivac timing (+1 armor is about 50%) of the way done. IMO, MKP's build is FAR superior because of the fast upgrade and better army composition. Mauraders > Marines late game when there is storm and colossus, but before then, as MKP shows, its much better to go marine heavy. At IPL4, he had no problems cutting through the zelots with his better marine count. In contrast, ForGG and Polt had a more difficult time penetrating the zelot wall with their un-upgraded marauders. Furthermore, Oz and Parting used new and innovative builds, which are specifically designed to work well against the old standard PvT. It's clear that Oz and Parting used better builds which gave them a clear advantage. | ||
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kubiks
France1328 Posts
I was really disappointed to see polt loose the first game, he played very welll :/. | ||
NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
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HonorZ
France858 Posts
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Jeenyus
United States109 Posts
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Fizzy
Sweden388 Posts
Nada > Leenock MMA > Nada Squirtle > Leenock Squirtle > Nada Is my prediction, pretty much the opposite but the same end result almost. | ||
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Fizzy
Sweden388 Posts
On April 12 2012 10:46 INTOtheVOID wrote: I think it's funny that people are just now aware of how good Squirtle is. No one gave two shits about Oz until after winter arena, no one cared about Heart until Columbus, and now Squirtle. I've been following these 3 players for over a year now and it's great to see some of my favorites finally getting recognition(seems ironic to me that top tier korean players almost have to get foreign results to be recognized). Hipster SC2 fan, make all new players favorites, so that he can say he followed them before they got famous. | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
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Yaki
France4234 Posts
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SeaSwift
Scotland4486 Posts
On April 12 2012 10:46 INTOtheVOID wrote: I think it's funny that people are just now aware of how good Squirtle is. No one gave two shits about Oz until after winter arena, no one cared about Heart until Columbus, and now Squirtle. I've been following these 3 players for over a year now and it's great to see some of my favorites finally getting recognition(seems ironic to me that top tier korean players almost have to get foreign results to be recognized). 1) Look at my blog from December (the Power Ranking). I put Oz as the second best Protoss in the world. If anything, my opinion of his play has gone down since then (Parting/Squirtle/Genius have overtaken him). 2) Heart's play still doesn't look too solid to me. If people call Huk "Luk" for his groups in MLG, Heart must be given similar treatment. His Open Bracket run was a joke compared to that of Stephano, Polt or Sheth, and his group was exactly the same one that people gave Huk so much flak for. 3) I wouldn't call Heart a "top tier Korean", and players like Nestea, MKP, Polt, Genius etc were recognized before their foreign results. It wasn't because IPL was a foreign tournament that people recognise Squirtle - it's because he didn't have any other noteworthy results. Same goes for Heart, and other players like ST_Sound from HSC4. | ||
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
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teamhozac
404 Posts
On April 12 2012 13:15 Sabu113 wrote: So silly. Trying to make up for the Dead president's thread when tree called a spade a spade. Ridiculous actually. The proper context would be a PvT matchup where it wasn't a miracle for a Toss to win and where winrates are apporach 50% again. Also, Toss kill moves show up with larger armies later in the game rather than early on. There are certain tech Toss just needs in order to be aggressive. Charge and Collosi namely. Parting has shown quite brilliantly how Templar should be used- defensively.If you look at his games he rarely moves the ungodly and almost unwieldily slow templar forward to storm but rather lets the Terran move into the storm. Early game PvT is still questionable. The inability of toss to put pressure on Terran in a lot of cases besides direct pressure is a significant and non-trivial problem with the viability of sc2 as an esport. In a few months we'll realize how important the large map sizes have been and the easy thirds have been to getting an acceptable P winrate. When we start trying to add some more diversity into the map pool again we'll end up with the summer all over again. Winrates look very sensitive to map design. Now onto the actual group: there's no way squirtle is making it through after all the hype. He's a solid toss but despite his amazing run this weekend his play has looked the weakest of the available code S toss. MMA is kinda screwed because his vP is still crap. Nada though is ripe to upset expectations. Protoss has THE strongest openers in the game, 4 gate, 3 gate robo (immortal or prism) proxy pylon/proxy gateways... there are a ton of ways protoss can pressure early game, but no one uses them. Just because no one uses them doesnt mean they are not there, but it has been identified that playing a macro PvT is the best way to go, and it is... the problem is Terran has no way to punish greedy openings due to... wait for it... the SENTRY! get rid of this stupid unit, or at least get rid of force fields, the most broken and unnecessary spell in the game. Every single TvP is the same now, especially with the maps the way they are. Make the naturals more open, or get rid of force field and you will see much more exciting, diverse TvP | ||
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DayWalk3r
Canada192 Posts
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Chengakz
United States163 Posts
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Irre
United States646 Posts
I don't think nerfing or buffing is the answer until HoTS. There are design issues with protoss that no one can really deny, and i dont think can be solved without ruining other matchups until new units are introduced. As it stands though, 3/3 zealots just scale so well for their ease of being warped in en masse in the lategame. And archons basically on demand like that are so hard to deal with when things go slightly in a protoss favor in an engagment. HTs aren't really the problem IMO, but having so many storms that templars could basically hit a few and erase a 150 supply army ( see parting vs mkp TDA game 2 MLG championships) is definitely not the best design for the game. That being said, parting certainly has a lot of skill, and besides MC actually has some of the best control I've seen on a protoss. I think based on those matches, he would have advanced even if the MU was more even. I also think maps come into play ( daybreak seems just so impossible). I just wish Polt was rewarded for his seriously inspiring and stellar play from last night, as I think his play last night was the best. Oz really seemed very sloppy, particularly with his control, and I felt was the weakest player overall. It is only one night though, and hopefully moving forward in this season, things won't look so lopsided. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On April 12 2012 21:55 teamhozac wrote: Protoss has THE strongest openers in the game, 4 gate, 3 gate robo (immortal or prism) proxy pylon/proxy gateways... there are a ton of ways protoss can pressure early game, but no one uses them. Just because no one uses them doesnt mean they are not there, but it has been identified that playing a macro PvT is the best way to go, and it is... the problem is Terran has no way to punish greedy openings due to... wait for it... the SENTRY! get rid of this stupid unit, or at least get rid of force fields, the most broken and unnecessary spell in the game. Every single TvP is the same now, especially with the maps the way they are. Make the naturals more open, or get rid of force field and you will see much more exciting, diverse TvP Get rid of force fields... I seriously, sincerly hope that was a troll... can you even imagine how retardedly imbalanced ZvP would be if you did that? TvP would see a lot of abusive cheeses that now can only be held of with force fields, but what's more important is that the entire fucking race would fall apart, I don't even... ...balance suggestions like this makes me want to tear my hair off, seriously >.> | ||
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