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Please try to keep the discussion civil. And while I can't ask everyone to write a huge essay like tree.hugger, try to write out your opinions in a substantive, well-thought way. |
Interesting article. I'm both startled and kind of impressed to see such an outright statement of imbalance in a TL article. I absolutely agree, but I also kind of can't help but wonder if I'm just jumping at official confirmation of my own bias.
Also
On September 08 2011 20:22 tombola wrote:
I really enjoyed the article until the whining about game balance. Protoss is going through a rough time now, sure, but I don't think they are underpowered. Protoss is just not figured out as much as Terran or Zerg. Warp Prisms haven't been used for months and I think they still aren't used to their fullest potential. Remember when Zerg whined about the "Protoss Deathball"? The weeks passed some high level Zerg figured something out and nobody is whining since. Protoss just needs more innovators. Sure MC is good and did a lot developing the race but who else is there now? I think Protoss needs some creative players more then any patch to garantuee a balanced matchup.
I really do hate people talking about how races like Z apparently overcame adversity by skill alone, and now protoss seems to be at the bottom of the heap we should all just l2p like Z did and become awesome.
Remember when Zerg whined about the "Protoss Deathball"? The weeks passed and their underused caster was given a huge buff specifically to counter the composition, and nobody is whining since.
Yeah. I do remember that, now that you mention it.
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I'll be honest, I'm a little shocked at reading what is clearly fundamentally a very well-written balance whine. But it is also one that basically plucked out what I've been secretly starting to think to myself to put in prose. Esp the part about the history of protoss performance in GSL sans MC. It's a strange feeling.
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On September 08 2011 21:58 Belisarius wrote:
Interesting article. I'm both startled and kind of impressed to see such an outright statement of imbalance in a TL article. I absolutely agree, but I also kind of can't help but wonder if I'm just jumping at official confirmation of my own bias.
On September 08 2011 21:59 moofang wrote:
I'll be honest, I'm a little shocked at reading what is clearly fundamentally a very well-written balance whine. But it is also one that basically plucked out what I've been secretly starting to think to myself to put it in prose. It's a strange feeling.
Reading my mind.
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On September 08 2011 20:38 moshyesim wrote:
nice balance whine about facts that arent facts disguised as an iem cologne thread... the tournament with 3 protoss in the top 4. but nice Interview and pictures.
How is this balance whine? It references well, it discusses things from both sides. 3 Protoss in the top 4 means nothing in a foreign tournament lacking in a lot of top players.
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Good read. Actually read the MC article completely (didnt read the others though sorry). Very impressive write up.
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I liked the article although I understand how it could be construed as a masked balance whine. It stated truths, and those might ruffle feathers a bit.
On another note, the SC2 protoss brotherhood seriously needs a new hero to rise up, or an existing one to break out and explode...
Quite simply, we need a Bisu-like figure to emerge and become a new age Protoss Revolutionist.
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On September 08 2011 22:15 Kommander wrote:
I liked the article although I understand how it could be construed as a masked balance whine. It stated truths, and those might ruffle feathers a bit.
On another note, the SC2 protoss brotherhood seriously needs a new hero to rise up, or an existing one to break out and explode...
Quite simply, we need a Bisu-like figure to emerge and become a new age Protoss Revolutionist.
That's the one remaining hope: that there is a window left we haven't discovered that lets Protoss players get back in the game against the incredibly brutal 1-1-1 and the huge macro of the Zerg.
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This article would of been worth putting up if patch 1.4 doesnt change anything but until then wait it out.
Also i feel alot of the nerfs toss recieved during its strongest time should be put back in i feel the amulet with some tweeks and a buff to VRs would fix things to a point where z/t dont have to be nerfed. And i think Z/T are in a position to weather these buffs.
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I liked the article, until the heavy balance whining, it really was not needed to insist on it that much, its a shame.
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On September 08 2011 21:40 EmilA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 21:37 MurtiBing wrote:If MC switched to T he would have won GSL 5 times. My question is - what would happen if MaNa switched to T?  Both would likely drop out of pro scene. MC is a 2-base timing pusher, that era is terran is long gone.
Do you honesly think that a former BW pro would have any trouble macroing as terran in SC2? Really?
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It's BW all over again. Protoss have not won an individual league in 3 years, Stork says that he would be better than Flash if he played terran, but no one wastes his breath to say protoss is up. Very sad to see a TL writer acknowledging the whining.
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The MC article makes really really sad...........MC......how we miss you 
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This writeup makes me sad....
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This reminds me of 6 months ago when Zergs called themselves underpowered while Protoss told them the game was balanced, they just needed to innovate.
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On September 08 2011 21:37 MurtiBing wrote:My question is - what would happen if MaNa switched to T?
Games would be more funk(a)y,
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Argentina22 Posts
The bias on this article is quite strong.
I agree that Toss is Up due a design flaw and Their scouting system being the worst of the worst, and a huge compromise.
Most of toss tech tree is a gamble so they always go for robo... making them predictable.
if you go for hallucination scout... it takes forever to get since you get warpgate first. If you dont you may not be able to fend off early attacks.
If you dont go hallu first you can't scout bases in time to react.
If you go hallu first you can react to anything, but any early pressure strikes far harder.
If you go robo you are predictable.
Still a biased article.
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Wow, after reading that bit about MC, I feel oddly depressed..doesn't help it's raining outside either
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On September 08 2011 21:58 Belisarius wrote:Interesting article. I'm both startled and kind of impressed to see such an outright statement of imbalance in a TL article. I absolutely agree, but I also kind of can't help but wonder if I'm just jumping at official confirmation of my own bias. Also Show nested quote +On September 08 2011 20:22 tombola wrote:
I really enjoyed the article until the whining about game balance. Protoss is going through a rough time now, sure, but I don't think they are underpowered. Protoss is just not figured out as much as Terran or Zerg. Warp Prisms haven't been used for months and I think they still aren't used to their fullest potential. Remember when Zerg whined about the "Protoss Deathball"? The weeks passed some high level Zerg figured something out and nobody is whining since. Protoss just needs more innovators. Sure MC is good and did a lot developing the race but who else is there now? I think Protoss needs some creative players more then any patch to garantuee a balanced matchup. I really do hate people talking about how races like Z apparently overcame adversity by skill alone, and now protoss seems to be at the bottom of the heap we should all just l2p like Z did and become awesome. Remember when Zerg whined about the "Protoss Deathball"? The weeks passed and their underused caster was given a huge buff specifically to counter the composition, and nobody is whining since. Yeah. I do remember that, now that you mention it.
That's partly correct. However the overall style of zerg changed. They began playing much more drop-oriented build, trying to be much more agressive, droping baneling and so on. In all that you don't see that many infestors.
The infestor buff helped a lot a specific style, but zerg also learned to use ling/baneling/roach differently.
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On September 08 2011 22:58 Mulletarian wrote:
This reminds me of 6 months ago when Zergs called themselves underpowered while Protoss told them the game was balanced, they just needed to innovate.
Yeah the fungal growth buff had nothing to do with that... zergs just realized that they could make their fungals do more damage in less time by innovating.
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EPT
