IEM Global Challenge Cologne - "Dead Presidents" - Page 28

On September 14 2011 08:01 PcH wrote:
What a terrible article that whines about balance. TL will warn (I expect a warn or ban for my post here) about balance shit, but they can write about it all day.

"If you haven't noticed that protoss sucks against terran, and has profound cost-efficiency difficulties against zerg, it’s because you're blind. It has taken imbalance on such an appalling scale as the 1/1/1 family of builds to cast MC down, to make him look mortal and prove once and for all that protoss is absolutely trash at the highest level of competition."

User was temp banned for this post.

On September 15 2011 10:07 frostalgia wrote:
i hope blizzard realizes soon its no secret anymore they dont care about protoss.
we've been nerfed out of contention, if we were ever even there to begin with. even at lower levels, all you see is 1-base all-ins and 2-base roach-rushes.
skill has nothing to do with toss anymore, its all luck.. you have to hope your opponent wont exploit your many early game weaknesses, so you can stand a fighting chance.
i can't play 1v1 anymore, and its sad when you love a game so much but you cant play it because it doesnt work right.
as a protoss i hope blizzard fixes this game soon, because we've given them the benefit of the doubt long enough. ive shrugged off the fact no protoss ever make tournaments unless theyre lucky as hell. well after a year, its time to start wondering why.
i feel like my race of protoss brethren is an endangered species.
if theyre going to wait for Legacy of the Void to finally buff protoss a little bit, theyre making a huge mistake.
1/1/1 and EMP are seriously problematic.. nothing should be that effective.
how does blizzard address it? they dont, both will still be used a lot after patch.
instead they nerf blink, to make sure protoss doesnt have an advantage in any matchup.
after so many nerfs, how can you still consider a race balanced?

You can run out of forcefields and you might need in the battle later on? If you specificly talking about the 1/1/1 build, you run the risk of being sniped by banshees or the terran elevator his army out with a medvac. Forcfield the terrans ramp is risky and you can lose the entire game if you do it for to long.

Also, the argument that you can't judge balance because there is no way to tell if MC is "as good as before" is silly. There is no % bar were we can see if players are playing to 100% of their potential. There is a lot of evidence that Protoss is losing more than just IEM. MC is what this article chooses to write about.

On September 17 2011 07:54 dUTtrOACh wrote:
I remember a player who was considered to be unbeatable getting knocked down to Code A, dealing with it, and coming back stronger than ever: IMMvP.

This seems to me like a temporary slump, brought about by a number of harsh nerfs to the strongest protoss strategies.

The race itself hasn't really changed very much, but some things clearly come too slowly to be useful many times. When I think of all the times I've seen no-storm templars getting their faces bashed in and being forced to morph into archons, or seen the stalker count diminish to the point where it becomes impossible to stop banshees, I wonder if all of this could have been prevented by not playing so greedily against terran.

To quote the article:
"In his first game against PuMa on Xel'Naga Caverns, MC 1 gate FE'd and then rushed to gateway/immortal tech."

I don't think: "Aw, poor MC."

I instead think: "Go Puma! Free win!"

Am I supposed to be convinced that terran is somehow completely unstoppable? Is 1 gate FE actually a viable opener against a banshee siege tank marine all-in? MC has a reputation for playing risky, and essentially trying to pull off an economic cheese, off of 2 base.

There are times when a terran simply does not want to be attacked, and protoss right now, so it seems, aren't capitalizing on this. I remember feeling so smart doing the 1-1-1 all-in, and playing against someone who simply made a phoenix and countered the build. It's hard to feel sorry for protoss who are trying to play out risky expansive strats while doing no harassment and relying on observers for their scouting.

play zerg and feel the same way about terran. its not that zerg and protoss are inherently bad. but when compared to the straight up advantages that terran's get its a bit ridiculous.

when i can bling drop a terrans mineral line and on the replay his mining rate is GREATER
THAN MINE afterwards because of mules... its beyond frustrating.

idra's games are telling to me too. in the mlg raleigh first round he lost some games to early bunkers/hellions, which is obnoxious in its own right and not fun to watch, but thats not even the worst part.

if he gets lucky and survives the early pressure, he can then be muta harrassing all over the map, be ahead on bases, day9 says like clockwork 'idra is so far ahead now i dont see him losing', but then he scrolls over to the terrans base and sees a shitload of marines +whatever else the terran decides to make and day9 then pretends to be shocked when the terran marches right into idras base and kills him. after watching that happen in all of idras first round zvt's i turned mlg off and didnt watch anymore.

there is something fundamentally wrong with the game (same applies to tvp) when that scenario is repeated time and time again. you can argue and say in BW we didnt whine, we found counters. sc2 is NOT BW. sc2's lead designer dustin browder has been quoted as saying terran's strength isnt a balance problem it is a game design flaw. and i completely agree with him, but he and his team dont seem very interested in changing that, at least until the zerg expansion, which is a damn shame.

and for the record i am NOT an idra fanboy. i like watching him play his macro style because thats how i play too. talking about idra seems to always lead to a discussion of his bm etc. this article was about mc, i like watching idra solely for his play, the same way you toss's like to watch mc. nothing more. if he plays bad and loses then thats fine, he got beat. when he is doing everything he can to win, and clearly outplaying his opponent and then just gets rolled time after time, something is wrong.

On September 16 2011 06:18 -y0shi- wrote:
Then Terran will just camp outside your base and expand himself. I think this happened in game 1 of nani vs thorzain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TxhLGF0gek

:/

On September 18 2011 03:22 secretary bird wrote:


Was that a response to my post? I m probably misunderstanding but if it is I dont see how that game is relevant.

On September 17 2011 07:54 dUTtrOACh wrote:
To quote the article:
"In his first game against PuMa on Xel'Naga Caverns, MC 1 gate FE'd and then rushed to gateway/immortal tech."

I don't think: "Aw, poor MC."

I instead think: "Go Puma! Free win!"

Am I supposed to be convinced that terran is somehow completely unstoppable? Is 1 gate FE actually a viable opener against a banshee siege tank marine all-in? MC has a reputation for playing risky, and essentially trying to pull off an economic cheese, off of 2 base.

On September 17 2011 07:54 dUTtrOACh wrote:
I remember a player who was considered to be unbeatable getting knocked down to Code A, dealing with it, and coming back stronger than ever: IMMvP.

This seems to me like a temporary slump, brought about by a number of harsh nerfs to the strongest protoss strategies.

The race itself hasn't really changed very much, but some things clearly come too slowly to be useful many times. When I think of all the times I've seen no-storm templars getting their faces bashed in and being forced to morph into archons, or seen the stalker count diminish to the point where it becomes impossible to stop banshees, I wonder if all of this could have been prevented by not playing so greedily against terran.

To quote the article:
"In his first game against PuMa on Xel'Naga Caverns, MC 1 gate FE'd and then rushed to gateway/immortal tech."

I don't think: "Aw, poor MC."

I instead think: "Go Puma! Free win!"

Am I supposed to be convinced that terran is somehow completely unstoppable? Is 1 gate FE actually a viable opener against a banshee siege tank marine all-in? MC has a reputation for playing risky, and essentially trying to pull off an economic cheese, off of 2 base.

There are times when a terran simply does not want to be attacked, and protoss right now, so it seems, aren't capitalizing on this. I remember feeling so smart doing the 1-1-1 all-in, and playing against someone who simply made a phoenix and countered the build. It's hard to feel sorry for protoss who are trying to play out risky expansive strats while doing no harassment and relying on observers for their scouting.