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I'm with QibingZero and nimoraca's posts - the timing is obviously so that Blizzard can hopefully cut down on BW's strength in order to help SC2 succeed.
Still, I'm calling it right here - with CJ's partial control of Gretech (and majority control of OGN) - OGN and MBC are going sign deals to sublicense, the terms will be kept private, and pro-BW will continue and we'll never know exactly how much Blizzard was able to extract from Gretech, and how nice (or bad?) a deal OGN and MBC have to pay up to Gretech.
As far as I can tell the entire Pro-BW shindig is there so that the major sponsors can produce a show that a young audience will watch for relatively low cost - it's all about selling SKT and KT phones and services, etc.
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KeSPA can always choose to ignore Blizz threats. KeSPA doesn't care about SC2. They don't want it. They want SCBW which has LAN play and Blizz can do nothing about it. They can take KeSPA to Korean court but that is a long shot...
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On May 31 2010 18:58 lastreason wrote:
guys, for all you slow minded ppl i will try to explain what this is all about, how blizzard doesn't care about esport, fans teams or anything
1.Why should we buy 3 games in order to play sc2 ?, they say if you buy them u can play online , but i think after 1 year this will change and we will have to pay monthly like mmorpg's
Yes, because after 10 years of free b.net for Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3, Starcraft, Starcraft:BW, Diablio1, and Diablio 2, they will start to charge for Starcraft 2? Sounds to me like you are imagining the worst and then insisting that it will happen when the history shows otherwise.
On May 31 2010 18:58 lastreason wrote:
2.There will be no lan , cause simply that doesn't make money for them , playing at home with your frends with no lag , ofcourse on all servers trust me there will be masive lag
Have you ever tried playing over bnet with only people connected to you by lan? I have all the time on war3, and let me tell you, it operates at lan speeds. This leads me to beleive that if you have a legit copy of sc2, and have internet connection to log onto bnet, you can have lan play at lan speeds no worries.
Again, you just assume the worst and tell others to trust you that there will be massive lag when war3 proves otherwise.
On May 31 2010 18:58 lastreason wrote:
3.This all new fight about rights it's simply to destroy kespa and sc1, thow kespa and the teams and fans made sc1 so popular NOT BLIZZARD, and made sc1 sales go crazy
Fair enough to say Blizzard doesn't like Kespa, but don't make it seem like Kespa made SC1 popular for Blizzard's sake. First, Kespa started to manage SC1 because it was already insaely popular and Kespa was like "Hey, we can make money off this.". You can argue they have Prolonged SC:BW's popularity, but again that was for purely selfish reasons by Kespa.
On May 31 2010 18:58 lastreason wrote:
4.if anybody fallowed gomtv classic competition knows at first it was all fine , then when blizzard participate they where asking for money for every vod, hd broadcast ,they even made the normal stream quality down so we pay , and after one year of blizzard participation the competition was canceled, this is what blizzard is bringing us
Gom was fine until Kespa killed it by not allowing any progamers to compete.
On May 31 2010 18:58 lastreason wrote:
5.if kespa and teams will be destroyed , u whont have ever another competition like osl and msl , with large stages , 20K+ fans and so on , look how crappy , is blizzcon every year , that 's what blizzard is only capable off
True, nothing compares to osl or msl or PL, but blizzard doesn't want to particularly kill kespa, kespa simply has to talk to gom and pain royalties to stay alive.
On May 31 2010 18:58 lastreason wrote:
6.in negotiation with kespa , u have to be really stupid,if you say that you whant to own every game and team "" this demands where simply put cause blizzard knows no one will accept them , so imposible negociation
I don't think any reasonable person will try to discuss why negotiations broke down since both sides give conflicting information, and it would be foolish to only believe what Kespa has to say about it.
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i hate what blizz has become, im not a big fan of kespa but i do respect what that have done and do for e-sports, ive followed brood wars most of my young life and was looking forwards to sc2 joining that line up but i dont see it growing at this rate.
Quite sad really this could have been the next big step (taking away from sc2 not being as dynamic to watch imo) for e-sports but everyone was too busy with being greedy and having control.
right now i back kespa (for all they have done for e sports) aswell as GOM (for trying to bridge the gap even when blizz didnt)
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On May 31 2010 19:06 dybydx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 18:55 randombum wrote:
I like how Kespa acts like they have the rights to sell the broadcasting rights to Blizzard's game. kespa didnt sell broadcasting rights to blizz's games. they sold the broadcasting rights on the video which records a game that was organized by kespa. if any other body organize their game on their own and broadcast it, it doesnt violate the kespa "broadcast rights". when you watched a baseball match, does MLB owns the video stream rights (which was sold to ESPN and others) or does the company that make the baseball equipment owns it?
Wait, if you took away what blizzard owns, (As in, everything in the game such as sounds, animations, music, etc.) What exactly does kespa own to sell to others?
If baseball was a game that you could only play with specialized equipment and settings that you cannot reproduce then the company that makes the equipment and made up the settings/rules owns it.
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On May 31 2010 19:05 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 18:55 randombum wrote:
I like how Kespa acts like they have the rights to sell the broadcasting rights to Blizzard's game. So, what exactly is your problem with that? I dont understand why so many people react like they`ve been fucked in the ass for all this selling of rights. If Kespa didnt negotiated with GOM, would there been GOM 1,2 and 3? Maybe, but the players would have been some unknown amateurs. So, in the end what we got from all this terrible "selling of rights behind blizzard`s back" - 3 nice tournaments with some sick games and english commentaries.
Hmmm... I may be mistaken in what I think Kespa did. What I thought happened was, kespa was making money showing SC, so they were like you can make money too IF you pay us for the right to broadcast starcraft. Why should gom have to pay KESPA to show SC, shouldn't they pay blizzard if they want to show sc?
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On May 31 2010 19:28 randombum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 19:05 mdb wrote:On May 31 2010 18:55 randombum wrote:
I like how Kespa acts like they have the rights to sell the broadcasting rights to Blizzard's game. So, what exactly is your problem with that? I dont understand why so many people react like they`ve been fucked in the ass for all this selling of rights. If Kespa didnt negotiated with GOM, would there been GOM 1,2 and 3? Maybe, but the players would have been some unknown amateurs. So, in the end what we got from all this terrible "selling of rights behind blizzard`s back" - 3 nice tournaments with some sick games and english commentaries. Hmmm... I may be mistaken in what I think Kespa did. What I thought happened was, kespa was making money showing SC, so they were like you can make money too IF you pay us for the right to broadcast starcraft. Why should gom have to pay KESPA to show SC, shouldn't they pay blizzard if they want to show sc?
Honestly I dont know what exactly happened between Kespa/Gom/Blizzard back then. And I dont think anyone on these forums know. We can only speculate. But the fact is that GOM tournament died at the moment in which Blizzard take over.
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On May 31 2010 12:55 DrivE wrote:
Blizzard listen to Kespa: Do it for the fans.
Do you really want chat rooms?
Fan? Thats that thing cooling down the air in my office, right?
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On May 31 2010 19:33 mdb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 19:28 randombum wrote:On May 31 2010 19:05 mdb wrote:On May 31 2010 18:55 randombum wrote:
I like how Kespa acts like they have the rights to sell the broadcasting rights to Blizzard's game. So, what exactly is your problem with that? I dont understand why so many people react like they`ve been fucked in the ass for all this selling of rights. If Kespa didnt negotiated with GOM, would there been GOM 1,2 and 3? Maybe, but the players would have been some unknown amateurs. So, in the end what we got from all this terrible "selling of rights behind blizzard`s back" - 3 nice tournaments with some sick games and english commentaries. Hmmm... I may be mistaken in what I think Kespa did. What I thought happened was, kespa was making money showing SC, so they were like you can make money too IF you pay us for the right to broadcast starcraft. Why should gom have to pay KESPA to show SC, shouldn't they pay blizzard if they want to show sc? Honestly I dont know what exactly happened between Kespa/Gom/Blizzard back then. And I dont think anyone on these forums know. We can only speculate. But the fact is that GOM tournament died at the moment in which Blizzard take over.
Well, it makes logical sense to me that it went like. Blizzard joins the game, finds out Blizzard's rights have been sold by kespa to gom. They do something like WTF kespa, why did you sell our rights you stop now! Kespa goes ok, gl having gom with no pro teams.
Makes sense because blizzard decided it wanted to sell the rights/ did not like kespa selling the rights so they did something to get kespa to stop (I believe a law suit happened.) Kespa response is also logical because since they cannot make money from gom anymore they kill off a competitor by dis allowing proteams to play.
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On May 31 2010 19:36 futoM4ki wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 12:55 DrivE wrote:
Blizzard listen to Kespa: Do it for the fans. Do you really want chat rooms? Fan? Thats that thing cooling down the air in my office, right?
Ice burn.
But it's true - Blizzard is handling this so terribly that they're making the player-exploiting Kespa look partially good.
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On May 31 2010 19:16 randombum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 18:58 lastreason wrote:
2.There will be no lan , cause simply that doesn't make money for them , playing at home with your frends with no lag , ofcourse on all servers trust me there will be masive lag Have you ever tried playing over bnet with only people connected to you by lan? I have all the time on war3, and let me tell you, it operates at lan speeds. This leads me to beleive that if you have a legit copy of sc2, and have internet connection to log onto bnet, you can have lan play at lan speeds no worries. Again, you just assume the worst and tell others to trust you that there will be massive lag when war3 proves otherwise.
You sir are wrong. There already was a LAN tournament with lags in China. It doesn't work like that and, although I didn't play w3, I doubt it did work like that in w3.
Please do some research before telling others they are wrong.
And don't forget about needing Bnet to be online to play tournaments. If Bnet goes down it's pretty ruined tournament/LAN party if you ask me.
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"eSports cannot just be approached simply as Blizzard's promotion logic."
This is the line here that is most important.
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randombum,
1. LAN v Bnet Connection
I think you both missed the point. The reason why Blizz force you to use bnet is not just piracy. It is easy to fake bnet auth using 3rd party software like Garena. By forcing you to use bnet, they can offer you pay contents. Remember how latency can be changed in SC1 but not WC3? (This is despite a hidden low latency setting does in fact exist in WC3) Blizz can choose to enable the low latency in SC2, for a fee of course.
The point is, mandatory Bnet Connection is a portal to more money.
2. KeSPA
I believe the SK pro-gamers became paid positions around the same time KeSPA was formed. Certainly Blizz did the same amount of work promoting esport in USA as they did in SK. The results in USA doesn't look very promising.
KeSPA already claimed that they agree to pay royalties, but Blizz want control. ie IP rights over replays. From a business perspective, this is litigation nightmare for KeSPA or any broadcaster.
My family rent a business property from someone who is often overseas. Despite we speak the same language, we need their permission to replace a broken air conditioner or change our advertising sign. The result? We refused to do maintenance on the property out of fear of legal disputes.
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On May 31 2010 19:38 randombum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 19:33 mdb wrote:On May 31 2010 19:28 randombum wrote:On May 31 2010 19:05 mdb wrote:On May 31 2010 18:55 randombum wrote:
I like how Kespa acts like they have the rights to sell the broadcasting rights to Blizzard's game. So, what exactly is your problem with that? I dont understand why so many people react like they`ve been fucked in the ass for all this selling of rights. If Kespa didnt negotiated with GOM, would there been GOM 1,2 and 3? Maybe, but the players would have been some unknown amateurs. So, in the end what we got from all this terrible "selling of rights behind blizzard`s back" - 3 nice tournaments with some sick games and english commentaries. Hmmm... I may be mistaken in what I think Kespa did. What I thought happened was, kespa was making money showing SC, so they were like you can make money too IF you pay us for the right to broadcast starcraft. Why should gom have to pay KESPA to show SC, shouldn't they pay blizzard if they want to show sc? Honestly I dont know what exactly happened between Kespa/Gom/Blizzard back then. And I dont think anyone on these forums know. We can only speculate. But the fact is that GOM tournament died at the moment in which Blizzard take over. Well, it makes logical sense to me that it went like. Blizzard joins the game, finds out Blizzard's rights have been sold by kespa to gom. They do something like WTF kespa, why did you sell our rights you stop now! Kespa goes ok, gl having gom with no pro teams. Makes sense because blizzard decided it wanted to sell the rights/ did not like kespa selling the rights so they did something to get kespa to stop (I believe a law suit happened.) Kespa response is also logical because since they cannot make money from gom anymore they kill off a competitor by dis allowing proteams to play.
Yeah, I guess this is what most probably happened, but this doesnt change the fact that we (fans) had one more tournament to enjoy and after Blizzards intervention there was no more GOM.
The existance of leagues, tournaments in Korea is what matters to me and I believe to all people who love starcraft and has supported this game for 12 years. I dont care if Kespa broke some law, or didnt paied some money to Blizzard.
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On May 31 2010 15:39 Milkis wrote:
Q: Blizzard claims that game usage in leagues is not a communal right but something under intellectual property. What do you think about this?
- While the game is owned by the company, the game is different from eSports. eSports only has game as the subject matter, it does not evolve around just the players but as a spectator sport, and thus a culture that needs many workers and their efforts and skills. It was already recognized in China as an official sport, and last year in the Asians games it was recognized as an official sport, and so it is something that is evolving as a sport globally
- Sports is not just for/owned by the "Manias" (T/N: Fans really involved in it. Think "Otaku") or special organizations. It has a communal property where normal spectators can watch and be involved in.
- If eSports is not a communal property and belongs to an international company called Blizzard, then the entire eSports industry in Korea and the existance of KeSPA becomes wrong from the beginning. All recognition and gains as a culture and sponsorship from Airforce etc disappears.
- Sports needs to guarantee Public Viewing, and so it has a communal property. eSports cannot just be approached simply as Blizzard's promotion logic.
- There are many examples such as the CGS event that shows that no matter how much you invest in, if it's done for personal gain then you cannot suceed
Amen.
Blame Activision* for this mess: Blizzard started the talks in 2007, after the start of the merge talks.
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Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On May 31 2010 18:48 kmdarkmaster wrote:
Kespa is a non-profit organization.
Blizz is a money-monger.
That's enough for me, Kespa will win.
Erm, no. 
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If there is an open audit regarding KeSPA's accounts and shown to the public that they are not profiting from what they have claimed then I don't get why Blizzard is trying to grab KeSPA by the balls since Blizzard paid nothing to KeSPA and pretty much got free advertising for years.
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On May 31 2010 19:38 randombum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 19:33 mdb wrote:On May 31 2010 19:28 randombum wrote:On May 31 2010 19:05 mdb wrote:On May 31 2010 18:55 randombum wrote:
I like how Kespa acts like they have the rights to sell the broadcasting rights to Blizzard's game. So, what exactly is your problem with that? I dont understand why so many people react like they`ve been fucked in the ass for all this selling of rights. If Kespa didnt negotiated with GOM, would there been GOM 1,2 and 3? Maybe, but the players would have been some unknown amateurs. So, in the end what we got from all this terrible "selling of rights behind blizzard`s back" - 3 nice tournaments with some sick games and english commentaries. Hmmm... I may be mistaken in what I think Kespa did. What I thought happened was, kespa was making money showing SC, so they were like you can make money too IF you pay us for the right to broadcast starcraft. Why should gom have to pay KESPA to show SC, shouldn't they pay blizzard if they want to show sc? Honestly I dont know what exactly happened between Kespa/Gom/Blizzard back then. And I dont think anyone on these forums know. We can only speculate. But the fact is that GOM tournament died at the moment in which Blizzard take over. Well, it makes logical sense to me that it went like. Blizzard joins the game, finds out Blizzard's rights have been sold by kespa to gom. They do something like WTF kespa, why did you sell our rights you stop now! Kespa goes ok, gl having gom with no pro teams. Makes sense because blizzard decided it wanted to sell the rights/ did not like kespa selling the rights so they did something to get kespa to stop (I believe a law suit happened.) Kespa response is also logical because since they cannot make money from gom anymore they kill off a competitor by dis allowing proteams to play.
Kespa didn't sell the rights to broadcast starcraft in korea, kespa sold the right to use their players (the ones they officially represent and the ones they pay the salary for) in a tournament.
And apparantly 100% of that money is invested back into the players and teams, I fail to see how this is a bad deal, I also fail to see how blizzard is getting shafted by it.
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On May 31 2010 19:55 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2010 18:48 kmdarkmaster wrote:
Kespa is a non-profit organization.
Blizz is a money-monger.
That's enough for me, Kespa will win. Erm, no.
Well according to OP they are prepared to let independent auditers (or whatever the word is in english) verify just that.
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I think KeSPA will sue Blizzard/gomtv over the broadcast rights to SC1. If KeSPA can get an injunction they might be able to keep things running untill trial. But this is all just wild speculation untill we get more info.
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EPT
