• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:22
CEST 10:22
KST 17:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 2312Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
2026 GSTL GRAND FINALS Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy BSL Season 23 PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 4/4
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27! PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague [ASL22] Ro16 Group D
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Violent-Cooperative Play and…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7030 users

[SC2B] Moving On - Page 4

Forum Index > News
128 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
lipebra
Profile Joined August 2009
Brazil130 Posts
March 02 2010 12:25 GMT
#61
I agree that u cant comprar a 2 weeks old to a 12 years old. And agree that the star 2 beta is more complete then the star 1 release.

I guess that blizzard is doing is send a semi complete game to the public and with the feedback add some things that ll make the game feel more complete. I guess they ll add 2 or 3 units, or some massive rework, to make some possibites of micro.

Just trust them, they ll make another great RTS.

Perfect Topic
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
March 02 2010 12:36 GMT
#62
great read.
I am not good with quotes
FortuneSyn
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1826 Posts
March 02 2010 12:47 GMT
#63
excellent analysis of macro and micro, I couldn't agree more. Blizzard really nailed it with their macro in this game.
NIB
Profile Joined March 2010
Greece5 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 17:44:07
March 02 2010 12:55 GMT
#64
To all of you who whine about mbs and unlimited units per group, you should go and play Dune 2, that has none of that "multiple unit selection" bullshit. I mean any noob can coordinate an attack with 10units now by simply selecting them and then ordering them with a single click. But in Dune 2, real pros had to select and order each unit separately and that what made the game fun to watch. It was amazing to see coordinated attacks by 10 devastators on the enemy base.

For all of you who whine about automining, you should also demand none of that "auto attacking bullshit". Any noob can leave their units unattended and those units will actually automatically attack enemy units that get close, wtf??? This is an insane noobification. Units should never attack unless they are ordered too, otherwise noobs will have a HUGE edge over pros.

In other words, stfu please. Games evolve and they get better. I am the first one who cries about noobification of modern gaming but sc2 isnt noobified. Autoque on age of mythology titans was a huge noobification and a mistake but mbs and automining are hardly reasons to cry "OMG NOOBIFIED", especially since Blizzard added new, more interesting, game mechanics that increase micro(scanner or mule(huge tactical decision), chrono boost, larva/tumours).

And on top of that, armies are a lot more mobile on sc2 than they were on sc1. Pylon/warp prism teleportation, blink, colossus, worm network, faster movement on creep+overlord vomit+creep tumours, medics that fly and can also carry units, reapers, etc. So you have to pay a lot more attention to the game and act/react a lot faster.
Be quick or be dead
dangots0ul
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States919 Posts
March 02 2010 14:02 GMT
#65
suck up! haha just kidding. good article.
i type teamliquid into the url subconsciously... all...the...time...
Infie
Profile Joined January 2010
Netherlands59 Posts
March 02 2010 14:24 GMT
#66
great read. i agree on almost everything although i do think that SC2 can become the great game that BW has become. once the pro's start to understand the units better and better they will start to alter the way they play with those units and micro will become more interesting.

starcraft needed bw to fix a lot of holes before in became a truly great game. WC3 needed TFT before it could be played competitively. SC2 already is a better game than those original games but we might need an expension pack (or two) before it will become the polished product SC:BW is. it might take some time but i have still high hopes that SC2 can become an equally epic game as BW.
Teejing
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany1360 Posts
March 02 2010 14:31 GMT
#67
Blizzard listened to out need for macro, hopefully they will listen to us once again.
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
March 02 2010 14:43 GMT
#68
The invincible drone is back and better than ever! It can read, it can mine, it can take the place of a cerebrate, and it can write the best article of SC2 compared to SC:BW! Fantastic job drone!

EDITOR PLZ FIX: in the picture of Super Mario2 it says "Sequels sown in succesion", its supposed to be shown(I think)!
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Niten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States598 Posts
March 02 2010 15:00 GMT
#69
Nice post!

I totally agree that starcraft's greatness was/is somewhat a fluke; but, I'm hoping, I'm confident, that Blizzard can improve upon its roots through intention and design.
Korra: "Ok, I know that I'm not good at emotions, but that's what Tenzin's gonna teach me, right? He's gonna teach me to be happy and gentle and spiritual, and the rest of that bullsh**t."
538
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Hungary3932 Posts
March 02 2010 15:23 GMT
#70
On March 02 2010 09:38 riptide wrote:
Even the flaws are considered to be a venerable tradition. One big difference between Starcraft I and II is that the sequel is just too smart. Starcraft: Brood War is a game full of stupidity that you have to overcome through quick wits and fast hands. There are no alerts when dark templars one-hit your workers, melee units refuse to acquire targets intelligently, reavers will shoot duds when told to shoot the wrong targets, and a plethora of other annoying things happen on a regular basis. Yet, we enjoy overcoming these inconveniences, call it skill, and say that Starcraft II sucks because it’s not stupid.
(...)
I was excited when I heard Starcraft II was coming out, but I didn’t know why. Now that I’ve tried the beta test, I realize that I was excited because I wanted to play another excellent Blizzard game. I never needed a sequel to Starcraft, because it was perfect all along.

----

(...)some of the greatness of competing in Starcraft stems from being able to overcome the faults of the AI. Goons killing mines they can’t spot (and often not doing so because they’re dumb – which is why watching someone do it flawlessly is great), vultures jumping past pylons because their pathing gets screwed up for a second when they lay mines, building pylons outside an opponent’s gateway right before his goons spawn because they follow a predictable spawn-pattern which cannot be decided by the player controlling the gateways. The usefulness of Mutalisks suddenly multiplied when someone accidentally noticed that you could stack them if you had them hotkeyed together with a far-away unit. These are all examples of unintentional manipulation of a flawed AI which enabled players to pull of awesome moves.

(...) As a long-lasting competitive game, Starcraft 2 might have less ”Awe-factor” than Starcraft did. It lacks flashy micromanagement. Walking up and down cliffs with reapers raping peons, it feels awesome. But it’s easy. I could pull it off quite decently the second game I played with Terran. Obviously it improves, but most of the micromanagement has the same feel to it. Blizzard has improved the AI to such an extent that the units actually behave the way you tell them to – but this also means that anyone is able to pull off what they are trying to do. Watching someone shoot a perfect free kick in football would not be impressive if you knew he just had to decide to do this, it is impressive because even though he knows exactly what to do, it is really difficult to execute it. This allegory can be transferred to mostly all sports, especially any involving a ball: if it is easy, it’s not impressive.

I quoted my favourite parts above, very well said. Very important aspects, and I think you came surprisingly close to wording the magic that is the unique charm of Brood War.

All in all very nice writeup, gj guys.
BW fighting!
Flicky
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
England2674 Posts
March 02 2010 15:43 GMT
#71
I rarely respond to articles, but Drone's section is exactly what I wanted to read and it makes a lot of sense.

I've been longing to know what early Starcraft was like because a lot of people seem to be being very unreasonable when critiquing SC2, as if Starcraft was balanced right from the get-go. It's good to know about the balance issues and strategies that seem incredibly strange to someone following the scene now. People seem to be forgetting that a lot of what kept Brood War going and makes it so great is yet to come. Things like Maps, balance, really strong strategies and top level play won't exist yet. There's a lot of impatience among the Brood War fans and I think Drone's point about it being three years before the balance got to what it is now is something very important to think about. I'm not sure how many people would wait three years with Starcraft 2, but that is something that depends on a lot of other factors that are near impossible to predict right now.

Either way, everything Drone has said makes a lot of sense and very accurate. Very good read.
Liquipedia"I was seriously looking for a black guy" - MrHoon
Lovin
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark812 Posts
March 02 2010 15:48 GMT
#72
I loved the analog to other sports! Very fitting
AKA SuddenSalad
member1987
Profile Joined February 2010
141 Posts
March 02 2010 15:57 GMT
#73
nice read. Good statements
Bonewalker
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3 Posts
March 02 2010 16:07 GMT
#74
Good read. However, I have to disagree on one point. The glitches and bugs do not, for me, add fun/spice to the game. They feel like cheating to me. Compare to chess, as you sort of did in the article. There are no bugs/glitches that can be taken advantage of...it is that polished and elegant a game. There are myriad strategies and tactics to use or be aware of, but that is what makes the game so great, and for my money, ultimately made SCBW so good. There were tons of strategies and options available, but there was no need for a glitch or bug. Another reason you wouldn't really ever want to rely on a glitch/bug is that it is safe to assume Blizzard might someday remove or fix it, so why not work on improving the things you know will be there for the lifetime of the game.
FezTheCaliph
Profile Joined February 2010
United States492 Posts
March 02 2010 16:40 GMT
#75
This was an excellent read. I think it fairly represents the two viewpoints on SC2. I personally side with the later, and the view that, "Hey its still beta.". This just really gets me motivated to explore SC2 and develop strategies etc.

If only I had a beta key

It is better to be on hand with ten men then absent with ten thousand
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
March 02 2010 17:08 GMT
#76
Ha wow. I agree completely with what both articles said. Starcraft was essentially a bundle of coincidences. SC2 just lacks the... Charm of SC. There's just something missing that I feel can't be replicated.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Nev3rDie
Profile Joined November 2009
United States75 Posts
March 02 2010 17:39 GMT
#77
Well, this helped me be less skeptical of the game now. Nice post.
One should always be first to attack
starcraft911
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)1263 Posts
March 02 2010 17:48 GMT
#78
I can confidently say that I am already a better Starcraft 2 player than I was a Starcraft 1 player in early 2000


I liked the overall article, but I think that's pretty strange you would come up with that assessment I've quoted. Seems a bit early to say this.

I can count on one hand the number of times people have upgraded their units attack/armor. When they do it's almost always air dmg for warp rays. I've faced ultras probably 15 times and guess what, they've been 0-0 EVERY time. I have a 64% win ratio in SC1 at A-/A rank as Z and a 61% at A- as T. I have a 93% win ratio playing random in SC2.

I don't think you can compare your abilities effectively between SC1 and SC2. You're basically stomping noobs right now. I really have no memorable losses where it was a close game. I've lost to being totally dumb and trying to tripple hatch and losing to void ray timings, I've lost to my internet/computer dying, I've lost games not realizing what units counter what, but I think once I got a firm grasp on what each unit was it's been smooth sailing on the noob basher express.

It's not SC2's fault though. Every beta is like this. Pillars is one of the people I see in every obscure RTS beta and he does very well in every RTS beta because he is a strategist and most people who pickup a new beta can't keep up with him.
538
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Hungary3932 Posts
March 02 2010 18:01 GMT
#79
On March 03 2010 01:07 Bonewalker wrote:
Good read. However, I have to disagree on one point. The glitches and bugs do not, for me, add fun/spice to the game. They feel like cheating to me. Compare to chess, as you sort of did in the article. There are no bugs/glitches that can be taken advantage of...it is that polished and elegant a game. There are myriad strategies and tactics to use or be aware of, but that is what makes the game so great, and for my money, ultimately made SCBW so good. There were tons of strategies and options available, but there was no need for a glitch or bug. Another reason you wouldn't really ever want to rely on a glitch/bug is that it is safe to assume Blizzard might someday remove or fix it, so why not work on improving the things you know will be there for the lifetime of the game.

Its pretty hard to define "glitch", and your approach seems very keen on that. What is a glitch, something thats "clearly" not meant to work that way? Either according to the rules of physics or common sense?
Do you consider mutalisk stacking a bug/glitch? What about worker stacking on minerals, and workers passing through units when in gathering mode? What about several siege tanks targeting a single zealot right between 4 friendly tanks? What about scarabs not dealing friendly splash damage? What is the difference between a glitch and an arbitrary out of the ordinary rule?
I think the above "glitches" (just for example) are a very important part to a lot of strategies, and as such, are integral to the current state of starcraft. You really cant list that many options and strategies that dont involve glitches of some kind.
BW fighting!
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
March 02 2010 18:38 GMT
#80
As a real Starcraft fan from the very beginning all I can say is "Yes.. this is exactly it"
It felt great to read your write-up and it brought back memories, you touched my heart, hehe
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 38m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech128
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 2169
Larva 1819
actioN 587
Zeus 84
Sea.KH 63
ToSsGirL 62
910 37
ggaemo 36
Other Games
gofns1948
WinterStarcraft486
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream9874
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 369
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH351
• LUISG 12
• mYiSmile15
• Letter143
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1132
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
38m
WardiTV Invitational
2h 38m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 1h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 8h
BSL: Ladder Tournament
1d 10h
GSL
1d 23h
Yamato Cup
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
BSL Open Qualifier
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.