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[SC2B] Moving On - Page 3

Forum Index > News
128 CommentsPost a Reply
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Sufr1r
Profile Joined February 2010
Spain78 Posts
March 02 2010 08:09 GMT
#41
Great read.

I think this will be like Counter-Strike v1.6 and Counter-Strike:Source, two separate communities and differents competitions.
Dota 2 ||| CLG Na`Vi Mouz mTw Zenith. Too much good teams to support!
chocoed
Profile Joined June 2007
United States398 Posts
March 02 2010 08:33 GMT
#42
Great read. So far, I love SC2 in the beta stages. I agree with the underlying example of SC and how much it has grown thanks to its strong community and consistent patches. Like the authors have said, SC2 isn't even a month old. People are still learning the game and creating new strategies to counter other people. Despite all the fuss about SC2 from demanding 'retards', I feel it has a lot potential in the upcoming years, and although it may feel like 'Starcraft' with upgraded graphics to some folks, just give it time people.
My life for Aiur!
SeeDLiNg
Profile Joined January 2010
United States690 Posts
March 02 2010 08:40 GMT
#43
<--- excited to make a post like this in 10 years because I was in SC2 1.0 and got to watch it evolve
InDaHouse
Profile Joined May 2008
Sweden956 Posts
March 02 2010 08:46 GMT
#44
As always good reflections by Eriador. Good read
Stork protoss legend
milkancho
Profile Joined December 2009
Bulgaria4 Posts
March 02 2010 08:57 GMT
#45
Finished reading it! Don't know why but I'm feeling a lot happier now. Great article!
asdasd
Xeln4g4
Profile Joined January 2005
Italy1209 Posts
March 02 2010 08:58 GMT
#46
nice write up, thank you
Sephy90
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1785 Posts
March 02 2010 09:08 GMT
#47
On March 02 2010 11:30 siNdreAd wrote:
I disagree completely.

For me, Starcraft 2 is Brood Wars but better and I'll probably never play Brood Wars again.


I enjoy being able to focus on micro battles, unit counters, macro, and strategy rather than doing boring and unenjoyable tasks such as setting workers to mine, separating my templars with energy from ones that don't have it etc. and so on.

I wont miss AI bugs, glitches, and luck elements (dud scarab anyone?).'

They're both great games and a ton of fun but I'll be moving on completely and sticking with SC2.

So you're basically saying you love the fact that the game plays for you?? You can literally just highlight the entire screen, send workers to mine, select CC/Nexus/Hatchery right click on a mineral patch and just sit while you're spamming your hotkey for your workers. Separating templars didn't take much skill but it took your ability to keep track of which templar had energy and which didn't. When a game started, splitting your workers was so fun but automine is just catering to casuals so hard. The dud scarabs only happened because most of the time the other player would already have his workers running away or you would drop your reaver behind the mineral patches which would cause the scarab to take longer to get to the target. If you had dropped right on top of the workers you would almost always get a hit. It's just those changes that make me sad. Please don't get me started on having a unlimited amount of units in one hotkey.. that's too much. I mean where's the fun in that? They've cut multitasking in half or even more for that matter. Overall I'm just disappointed that SC2 is so easy to learn right now, it'll get harder for sure but those little things that made the game fun are gone =\
"So I turned the lights off at night and practiced by myself"
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
March 02 2010 09:32 GMT
#48
It's fascinating how everyone (including myself) was worrying so much about the macro aspect of the game and assumed that micro would be essential since that's what they did with wc3. We should have been worrying about the micro aspect because that can't be changed as easily. Spectacular control has allways been what's made sc1 such a good spectator game. Even though focus is alot on macro now adays the control still shows in every game and it's impressive because of the multitasking required. Anyone can learn jaedong muta micro in 2-3 weeks of hardcore practise but it's take 2-3 years atleast of hardcore practise to learn to multitask at a comparable rate and still have that micro. This will be totally non existant in sc2 unfortunately.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
March 02 2010 10:02 GMT
#49
I'll play starcraft again because, let's face it, there's nothing like starcraft.

But, even though I agree that all the small bugs in sc make it a better game (somehow); I still feel that the quality of a game should not depend upon there being bugs that only some people know how to use (in a good way).

That seems backwards to me somehow. I've wondered long if mineral jumping should have it's place or not. When you look at it, it really shouldn't... But it makes the game better somehow...

Still, I hope the success of sc2 won't depend upon there being bugs in there somewhere.
Hello=)
BroOd
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Austin10831 Posts
March 02 2010 10:16 GMT
#50
Reading this post and watching Day9tv/random matches has gotten me pretty anxious to start playing, I just hope its not months until that's a possibility.
ModeratorSIRL and JLIG.
Robinsa
Profile Joined May 2009
Japan1333 Posts
March 02 2010 10:23 GMT
#51
I hope they fix it. I also hope the game develop as SC1 has done, I must say I'm not too confident that it's gonna be as awsome as BW though... Then again I know that I thought that TFT would make WC3 worse .. A few years later I understand that it made a broken game a little less broken.
4649!!
Slugbreath
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden201 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 10:29:46
March 02 2010 10:29 GMT
#52
On March 02 2010 09:38 Liquid`Drone wrote:
The usefulness of Mutalisks suddenly multiplied when someone accidentally noticed that you could stack them if you had them hotkeyed together with a far-away unit.


That someone would be (Wiki)Shark unless I am misstaken.

By the way, awesomely written texts. Cheers!
DIProgan
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1 Post
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 10:38:24
March 02 2010 10:34 GMT
#53
The old faults and strategies of sc1 will be replaced with new ones at different spots in the game. Wether they will be satisfactory in a long term is yet to see. Maybe they will be of a more strategic kind than "quirky". One thing is certain though: perfection is never reached while being human so there's no need to worry about the game being too easy. Always the fun part on the line...always the fun...
Doctorasul
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Romania1145 Posts
March 02 2010 10:47 GMT
#54
I don't think comparing SC2 Beta to Starcraft at release is that relevant - there have been so many changes in these 12 years in video game production in general, you would expect all 2010 betas by big names to be above Starcraft at release, at least production-wise, wouldn't you? Companies can afford more resources now than before and the process is more streamlined instead of going by the feel and hoping something works.

About Waxangels comment that SC2 will never be "BW but better" - it certanly will be for some, just like War3 was considered by a minority an improvement over BW and not just a new game. There's also no doubt that no matter how well they design SC2, there will be some that will refuse to accept it no matter what, and stick with BW to the end. So, while there won't be an unanimous consensus, why wouldn't it be entirely possible for a large majority of players (including non-BW players) to view SC2 as "BW but better"? Pointing out some differences like some bugs becoming part of the game's experience as opposed to trying to iron out all bugs is fair, but will that really be the most important aspect by which players will feel whether or not they are still playing a BW game? You hear players constantly pointing to what they feel makes BW unique, and it's things like fast pace, the need to multitask, balance, cut-throat gameplay, strategic depth and variety, tension and hard to master, not "great flaws" or "the need to overcome the game's bugs". Surely there's a way to keep the good stuff and the general feel of the game without bugs.

Overall, macro being as or more demanding than BW is fantastic news! The lack of lurker-like positional units or reaver-like siege units makes units blend into one another and lack identity, at least at first sight. I'm pretty sure blink and force fields will create some memorable scenes, but the general impression that units seem to resemble one another too much for interesting micro or positional situations to arise often enough is very worrying.

But I can't help but look at SC2 as an intentionally incomplete game, despite Blizzard stating they're not leaving anything out for the initial release. Why are we even demanding exquisite balance if there will be new units added a year or so after release? Would you demand perfect balance in vanilla SC or wait for the expansion and see what happens?

Since Blizzard is not going to change it's plans for 2 expansion sets, I think we have no choice but to be content with a fun, somewhat balanced, incomplete game for SC2 release and expect to only have in the final expansion proper battle net features, perfect balance, equally interesting races (Z is so boring right now), positional units, etc. That being said, SC2 looks like it's been ready for release for a few months now.
"I believe in Spinoza's god who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings." - Albert Einstein
ChaseR
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Norway1004 Posts
March 02 2010 11:24 GMT
#55
Reading the thoughts and experience of someone like myself really told me alot more about SC2 then I would have found anywhere else on the net.

I haven't been following SC2 at all since I've been playing another game for over 5 months but this was great to read and food for thought.
Life is not Fucking Fair and Society is not Fucking Logical - "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
NET
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States703 Posts
March 02 2010 11:29 GMT
#56
SC: BW The Legend will never die. But SC2 is just so much fun, the game is just brilliant to watch and listen to, won't stop watching the Pros play SC:BW, but as for me I'm moving all the way to SC2. There's a plethora of so many new and inventive strats that it will be hard to put down.
"Dark Templar are the saviors of the Protoss Race." -Artosis
tuffe
Profile Joined January 2009
Sweden6 Posts
March 02 2010 11:42 GMT
#57
Blizzard has improved the AI to such an extent that the units actually behave the way you tell them to – but this also means that anyone is able to pull off what they are trying to do.


I don't know what your opinion is on this, but I for one will not miss the stupid dragoon AI, workers getting stuck in minerals and buildings, etc. Also, you mentioned free kicks in soccer as something that is hard to execute, and it sure is, but I'm not so much impressed by such things because there is not much thought that has to go into it, just very much practice.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10698 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 11:46:21
March 02 2010 11:44 GMT
#58
What i find weird when reading such posts:

SC/BW was played BEFORE Mutastacking and all these other glitches and it was, at the time of the development of many of these glitches, already *over* the time most RTS really last.

You know what?
Does glitches did change Starcraft, but they never were and never will be what made SC/BW great... SC/BW would still be played if Mutastacking, Probe jumping or whatever never would have been developed (but someone would have to solve ZvT another way ).

I don't want or could judge if SC2 will last... But if it won't last a lack of glitches and buggy units will not be the reason.

Right now i would say the lack of units like Reavers, Mines and Lurkers is the bigger Issue. As i see it SC2 right now lacks the "YOU SHALL NOT PASS"-Units :p.


Btw: I remember my very first SC/BW game also... Team Meele 1on1... I thought Dragoons were the shittiest unit ever (so BIG but weak for their size and hated Ultras for not being able to Burrow.. Shit :p).
Oddysay
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada597 Posts
March 02 2010 12:07 GMT
#59
good read , agree about what drone say .

but blizzard need to add thing who require micro like you say .

starcraft 1 so good because pro gamer can produce amazing move and micro and you only think to play like them .

in starcraft 2 im playing vs player and nothing they do are totaly amazing , they move unit back when they get dmg and that all . but that also true the game only in beta since 1 week , so who know ?

give the game 1-2 year and we will know better
FaZ-
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States187 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-02 12:19:32
March 02 2010 12:17 GMT
#60
In fact I am quite certain you will need at least equally high APM to succeed in Starcraft 2 as you need in Starcraft, probably even higher if you play protoss.

Well that's a welcome relief...

Well summed up, Drone. Can someone fill me in on what exactly he means by tooting his own horn? I'm not aware of anything he discovered. -.-

On March 02 2010 17:09 Sufr1r wrote:
I think this will be like Counter-Strike v1.6 and Counter-Strike:Source, two separate communities and differents competitions.

That's really scary, I certainly hope that it won't be and this thought hadn't even crossed my mind... I have an inherent trust in Blizzard to develop a competitive game, but looking back I realize that I have almost the same level of trust in Valve and yet they completely butchered the "sequel" to their 12-year-strong competitive game.
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