• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:47
CEST 11:47
KST 18:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"4ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!31Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)99
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) 3kb/s downloading patch..... are we back to 1998? How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 2v2v2v2 Tournament [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Star Con San Diego 2026
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs Fighting Spirit mining rates Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread 2026-27 Football Thread placeholder TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Games, Hormones, and "Dark" …
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5849 users

[TSL] TL Punishes Cheaters - Page 8

Forum Index > News
309 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 16 Next All
Stone
Profile Joined February 2009
United Kingdom155 Posts
December 21 2009 21:40 GMT
#141
i understand that chill.
baller
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
527 Posts
December 21 2009 21:46 GMT
#142
On December 22 2009 06:36 Stone[MB] wrote:
banning them from tsl3, punishment seem too severe. how about a -1.5k point deduction players rank at end of tsl3.

maybe OP is easier 4 u to understand if u think of it this way: TL is not banning them from TSL3, just giving them a -10,000 point penalty
tinman
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States287 Posts
December 21 2009 21:48 GMT
#143
I am glad that cheating is not paying dividends in this tournament. I am also impressed by the TSL staff's obvious dedication to running a high-quality, abuse-free competition here. I don't even think that the punishments are excessive, although I wish that they had been announced beforehand as a deterrent rather than afterwards (it's a trap!).

I do, however, wish that folks would dispense with all the these-evildoers-got-what-they-deserved, Captain America bullshit. It's a shame that this happened in a tournament, a shame and not an occasion for patting ourselves on our collective law-abiding back and denigrating the abusers. This is a community issue, not an us-vs-them issue, and we should take the fall from grace of such respected players as Yosh not as a soapbox from which to applaud ourselves but as a sobering reminder that there are times that even the best of us don't live up to our most basic expectations.

Let's have some empathy here along with our justice.
"Politics is an extravagance, an extravagance about grievances. And poetry is an extravagance about grief. And grievances are something that can be remedied, and griefs are irremediable."
baller
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
527 Posts
December 21 2009 21:49 GMT
#144
On December 22 2009 06:48 tinman wrote:
I am glad that cheating is not paying dividends in this tournament. I am also impressed by the TSL staff's obvious dedication to running a high-quality, abuse-free competition here. I don't even think that the punishments are excessive, although I wish that they had been announced beforehand as a deterrent rather than afterwards (it's a trap!).

I do, however, wish that folks would dispense with all the these-evildoers-got-what-they-deserved, Captain America bullshit. It's a shame that this happened in a tournament, a shame and not an occasion for patting ourselves on our collective law-abiding back and denigrating the abusers. This is a community issue, not an us-vs-them issue, and we should take the fall from grace of such respected players as Yosh not as a soapbox from which to applaud ourselves but as a sobering reminder that there are times that even the best of us don't live up to our most basic expectations.

Let's have some empathy here along with our justice.

i agree with your post if u just replace "Yosh" with "DIMAGA"
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
December 21 2009 21:50 GMT
#145
Wow, nice job guys! Hope they learn what did have done and don't ever decide or try to do it again.
Life?
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
December 21 2009 21:53 GMT
#146
Is there really going to be a TSL3...
:)
PianoMan
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Pakistan54 Posts
December 21 2009 21:53 GMT
#147
On December 22 2009 06:36 Stone[MB] wrote:
banning them from tsl3, punishment seem too severe. how about a -1.5k point deduction players rank at end of tsl3.

For most players that would be a DQ anyway I think. If a player is good then you do not care if he is an abuser?

On December 22 2009 06:17 unk. wrote:
funny thing that you are punishing players for some crime not even described by the codes of law (i mean it neither described @ iccup rules, nor @ TL rules, nor anywhere else ) Punishing for action not being forbidden by law is way beyond of how judacial system works. I am not agains banning those players from TL, since it is TL league and TL rules, but asking for banning them from all events is ... kinda lame. if you want make it professional - sit down with gg.net, iccup, wgt so on head admins and make some standart rules of what exactly is forbidden.

Yes, it is unprofessional to ban people for abuse. It is much better to ban tons of people for someone else's crime and not care I guess, right unk? It's funny that of all people in the brood war community, you are the one talking about being unprofessional.

It should be common sense that abusing is against the rules. I am sure TL did not say people cannot hack the ICCup system to give themselves free points, but I do not think they would allow people for qualification if they did that. It is a common sense.

P i a n o M a n
Az the Donkey
Ecrilon
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
501 Posts
December 21 2009 21:55 GMT
#148
This is a good policy I suppose. Though perhaps it would have been better to give the warning before the tournament started so that this tournament would also have been improved.
There is but one truth.
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
December 21 2009 21:57 GMT
#149
I'm all for this! with the exception of banning f91 from TSL3 due to the in my opinion special circumstances (: if there's more people feeling like me about this maybe we could change that? anyhow it's not a big deal either way i guess cause he did cheat.
idortlol
Profile Joined August 2009
United States13 Posts
December 21 2009 21:58 GMT
#150
Out of curiosity, what did these users do to cheat? I mean aside from obviously gaining an unfair advantage or being an accessory to cheating what did they do?

Are there SC map hacks? The ability to rig your economy to make everything 9999(9)? Make your units invulnerable? Using a program to calculate targeting in battles/skirmishes?

Just curious as to what each individual did to cheat. Not interesting in knowing how to cheat, but what they did to get punished.
You cant direct the winds, but you can adjust your sails.
unk.
Profile Joined June 2007
111 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 22:01:18
December 21 2009 22:00 GMT
#151
On December 22 2009 06:53 PianoMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2009 06:17 unk. wrote:
funny thing that you are punishing players for some crime not even described by the codes of law (i mean it neither described @ iccup rules, nor @ TL rules, nor anywhere else ) Punishing for action not being forbidden by law is way beyond of how judacial system works. I am not agains banning those players from TL, since it is TL league and TL rules, but asking for banning them from all events is ... kinda lame. if you want make it professional - sit down with gg.net, iccup, wgt so on head admins and make some standart rules of what exactly is forbidden.

Yes, it is unprofessional to ban people for abuse. It is much better to ban tons of people for someone else's crime and not care I guess, right unk? It's funny that of all people in the brood war community, you are the one talking about being unprofessional.

It should be common sense that abusing is against the rules. I am sure TL did not say people cannot hack the ICCup system to give themselves free points, but I do not think they would allow people for qualification if they did that. It is a common sense.

P i a n o M a n

none of my actions were taken against existing iccup rules. Sometimes rules are stupid, unfair etc, but you have a chance to read them. thats a difference.

all those "abusive" actions at TSL were not forbidden by iccup rules in fact. it is not an abuse. anyway you missed the point.
PianoMan
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Pakistan54 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 22:04:24
December 21 2009 22:03 GMT
#152
On December 22 2009 07:00 unk. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2009 06:53 PianoMan wrote:
On December 22 2009 06:17 unk. wrote:
funny thing that you are punishing players for some crime not even described by the codes of law (i mean it neither described @ iccup rules, nor @ TL rules, nor anywhere else ) Punishing for action not being forbidden by law is way beyond of how judacial system works. I am not agains banning those players from TL, since it is TL league and TL rules, but asking for banning them from all events is ... kinda lame. if you want make it professional - sit down with gg.net, iccup, wgt so on head admins and make some standart rules of what exactly is forbidden.

Yes, it is unprofessional to ban people for abuse. It is much better to ban tons of people for someone else's crime and not care I guess, right unk? It's funny that of all people in the brood war community, you are the one talking about being unprofessional.

It should be common sense that abusing is against the rules. I am sure TL did not say people cannot hack the ICCup system to give themselves free points, but I do not think they would allow people for qualification if they did that. It is a common sense.

P i a n o M a n

none of my actions were taken against existing iccup rules. Sometimes rules are stupid, unfair etc, but you have a chance to read them. thats a difference.

all those "abusive" actions at TSL were not forbidden by iccup rules in fact. it is not an abuse. anyway you missed the point.

You make a mistake and think it is about iccup rules. TSL is about breaking of TSL rules, not iccup rules. You can not extend your self over the team liquid. If you make bad rules, then you are a bad admin. The players violate known fairplay by abusing.

Just because a rule is not written does not mean it is not common sense. Do you lack the common sense? Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse. All players know they cannot abuse, or else they are as of you with the brain of a donkey.

P i a n o M a n
Az the Donkey
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10835 Posts
December 21 2009 22:05 GMT
#153
On December 22 2009 06:58 idortlol wrote:
Out of curiosity, what did these users do to cheat? I mean aside from obviously gaining an unfair advantage or being an accessory to cheating what did they do?

Are there SC map hacks? The ability to rig your economy to make everything 9999(9)? Make your units invulnerable? Using a program to calculate targeting in battles/skirmishes?

Just curious as to what each individual did to cheat. Not interesting in knowing how to cheat, but what they did to get punished.

please read the thread before you post questions that have already been answered
On December 22 2009 04:56 Torenhire wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2009 04:51 Rainbow wrote:
Nice work, TL. It's good to see abusers get it up the butt, but what do you mean by abusing anyway? Like combat-ex playing D players? (Sorry to bring that up again, but it's the only example I can think of).



Look in the right side, click the T*SL and find the threads that have info on all the Disqualifications.

Edit - Here.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107745
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107728

ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
Lord_of_Chaos
Profile Joined June 2007
Sweden372 Posts
December 21 2009 22:11 GMT
#154
On December 22 2009 06:17 unk. wrote:
funny thing that you are punishing players for some crime not even described by the codes of law (i mean it neither described @ iccup rules, nor @ TL rules, nor anywhere else ) Punishing for action not being forbidden by law is way beyond of how judacial system works. I am not agains banning those players from TL, since it is TL league and TL rules, but asking for banning them from all events is ... kinda lame. if you want make it professional - sit down with gg.net, iccup, wgt so on head admins and make some standart rules of what exactly is forbidden.

You are well enough versed in the community to already know that gg.net has a set of standardised rules when it comes to cheaters, hackers and abusers. These were made known years ago. First offense: 1 year, second offense: life time ban.
This time we did not use full 1 year since, in our judgement, a few freewins is not the same thing as using maphack (Can be, and is, debated. It is gg.net's view on it however). Using less than one year ban is unprecedented on gg.net. Had we stuck with the exact wording of our rules all these players would have been banned for a full year.

And if you want a standard rule for what exactly is forbidden, I think this will suffice: Cheating is not allowed.

I also think that rule has been in place since the very dawn of sports.
unk.
Profile Joined June 2007
111 Posts
December 21 2009 22:11 GMT
#155
On December 22 2009 07:03 PianoMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2009 07:00 unk. wrote:
On December 22 2009 06:53 PianoMan wrote:
On December 22 2009 06:17 unk. wrote:
funny thing that you are punishing players for some crime not even described by the codes of law (i mean it neither described @ iccup rules, nor @ TL rules, nor anywhere else ) Punishing for action not being forbidden by law is way beyond of how judacial system works. I am not agains banning those players from TL, since it is TL league and TL rules, but asking for banning them from all events is ... kinda lame. if you want make it professional - sit down with gg.net, iccup, wgt so on head admins and make some standart rules of what exactly is forbidden.

Yes, it is unprofessional to ban people for abuse. It is much better to ban tons of people for someone else's crime and not care I guess, right unk? It's funny that of all people in the brood war community, you are the one talking about being unprofessional.

It should be common sense that abusing is against the rules. I am sure TL did not say people cannot hack the ICCup system to give themselves free points, but I do not think they would allow people for qualification if they did that. It is a common sense.

P i a n o M a n

none of my actions were taken against existing iccup rules. Sometimes rules are stupid, unfair etc, but you have a chance to read them. thats a difference.

all those "abusive" actions at TSL were not forbidden by iccup rules in fact. it is not an abuse. anyway you missed the point.

You make a mistake and think it is about iccup rules. TSL is about breaking of TSL rules, not iccup rules. You can not extend your self over the team liquid. If you make bad rules, then you are a bad admin. The players violate known fairplay by abusing.

Just because a rule is not written does not mean it is not common sense. Do you lack the common sense? Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse. All players know they cannot abuse, or else they are as of you with the brain of a donkey.

P i a n o M a n

1. i do not make any rules. i am not an admin. But i re-read rules before taking action.
2. In my 1st post i said that it is TSL league and TL rules and their deccision after all. I do respect it, even though i am not totally agree with it.
3. Common sense? people tend of lacking it. I can give you a lot of examples, but this will be a waste of time. i am pretty sure you can't even explain what exactly "abuse" is (concerning starcraft).
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 22:14:14
December 21 2009 22:13 GMT
#156
It's good to hear about further TSLs, even if there are no plans yet, it's more than nothing (the staff kept repeating taht there wont be TSL2)
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 22:18:45
December 21 2009 22:14 GMT
#157
I was surprised when several well known and well respected players were caught abusing, but the TL staff made the right decision here and I imagine it was difficult deciding the punishment considering the players involved. In the competitive gaming scene there is nothing worse than a cheater, and no greater insult than being called a cheater. When someone cheats or abuses, they hurt the entire community. The players they have played with, the tournament they are involved in, their fans, and their reputations all suffer as a result. Banning abusers from events is appropriate, and while people can argue about how harsh the punishments should be, they need to be harsh enough to get the point across while also giving the players a chance to contribute to the community and redeem themselves in the future.

Just wanted to support the staff's decision and thank them for running an enjoyable and honorable event.
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
December 21 2009 22:15 GMT
#158
I think the punishments are just right. I hope that there comes a raised awareness from all of this.
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
December 21 2009 22:16 GMT
#159
-sigh- sad to see such players banned...
but its for the best i suppose
cw)minsean(ru
PianoMan
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Pakistan54 Posts
December 21 2009 22:19 GMT
#160
On December 22 2009 07:11 unk. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2009 07:03 PianoMan wrote:
On December 22 2009 07:00 unk. wrote:
On December 22 2009 06:53 PianoMan wrote:
On December 22 2009 06:17 unk. wrote:
funny thing that you are punishing players for some crime not even described by the codes of law (i mean it neither described @ iccup rules, nor @ TL rules, nor anywhere else ) Punishing for action not being forbidden by law is way beyond of how judacial system works. I am not agains banning those players from TL, since it is TL league and TL rules, but asking for banning them from all events is ... kinda lame. if you want make it professional - sit down with gg.net, iccup, wgt so on head admins and make some standart rules of what exactly is forbidden.

Yes, it is unprofessional to ban people for abuse. It is much better to ban tons of people for someone else's crime and not care I guess, right unk? It's funny that of all people in the brood war community, you are the one talking about being unprofessional.

It should be common sense that abusing is against the rules. I am sure TL did not say people cannot hack the ICCup system to give themselves free points, but I do not think they would allow people for qualification if they did that. It is a common sense.

P i a n o M a n

none of my actions were taken against existing iccup rules. Sometimes rules are stupid, unfair etc, but you have a chance to read them. thats a difference.

all those "abusive" actions at TSL were not forbidden by iccup rules in fact. it is not an abuse. anyway you missed the point.

You make a mistake and think it is about iccup rules. TSL is about breaking of TSL rules, not iccup rules. You can not extend your self over the team liquid. If you make bad rules, then you are a bad admin. The players violate known fairplay by abusing.

Just because a rule is not written does not mean it is not common sense. Do you lack the common sense? Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse. All players know they cannot abuse, or else they are as of you with the brain of a donkey.

P i a n o M a n

i am pretty sure you can't even explain what exactly "abuse" is (concerning starcraft).

I am thinking no one can explain of what all abuse possibilities are. But I can explain that what these players did is abuse. Abuse is something that is easy to identify when it happens, and everyone knows what it is, even if it is not easy to explain every one possibility for it.

P i a n o M a n
Az the Donkey
Prev 1 6 7 8 9 10 16 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 13m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech75
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3242
Shuttle 971
Bisu 805
firebathero 586
actioN 385
PianO 289
BeSt 282
Mini 154
Hyun 148
ZerO 140
[ Show more ]
Leta 105
Pusan 63
sSak 61
Mind 58
Killer 51
JYJ 44
yabsab 31
Sharp 24
sorry 23
Hm[arnc] 11
Sacsri 10
Dota 2
febbydoto36
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss863
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King167
Other Games
summit1g7276
singsing1211
ceh9820
Sick248
crisheroes243
Pyrionflax210
XaKoH 172
Fuzer 80
RuFF_SC252
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH312
• StrangeGG 55
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2208
• WagamamaTV201
League of Legends
• Stunt458
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
1h 13m
Monday Night Weeklies
6h 13m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d
INu's Battles
1d 1h
Cure vs herO
ByuN vs Rogue
PiGosaur Cup
1d 14h
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Escore
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Acropolis #5 - TRS
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.