EPT[TSL] TL Punishes Cheaters - Page 8
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Stone
United Kingdom155 Posts
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baller
527 Posts
On December 22 2009 06:36 Stone[MB] wrote: banning them from tsl3, punishment seem too severe. how about a -1.5k point deduction players rank at end of tsl3. maybe OP is easier 4 u to understand if u think of it this way: TL is not banning them from TSL3, just giving them a -10,000 point penalty | ||
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tinman
United States287 Posts
I do, however, wish that folks would dispense with all the these-evildoers-got-what-they-deserved, Captain America bullshit. It's a shame that this happened in a tournament, a shame and not an occasion for patting ourselves on our collective law-abiding back and denigrating the abusers. This is a community issue, not an us-vs-them issue, and we should take the fall from grace of such respected players as Yosh not as a soapbox from which to applaud ourselves but as a sobering reminder that there are times that even the best of us don't live up to our most basic expectations. Let's have some empathy here along with our justice. | ||
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baller
527 Posts
On December 22 2009 06:48 tinman wrote: I am glad that cheating is not paying dividends in this tournament. I am also impressed by the TSL staff's obvious dedication to running a high-quality, abuse-free competition here. I don't even think that the punishments are excessive, although I wish that they had been announced beforehand as a deterrent rather than afterwards (it's a trap!). I do, however, wish that folks would dispense with all the these-evildoers-got-what-they-deserved, Captain America bullshit. It's a shame that this happened in a tournament, a shame and not an occasion for patting ourselves on our collective law-abiding back and denigrating the abusers. This is a community issue, not an us-vs-them issue, and we should take the fall from grace of such respected players as Yosh not as a soapbox from which to applaud ourselves but as a sobering reminder that there are times that even the best of us don't live up to our most basic expectations. Let's have some empathy here along with our justice. i agree with your post if u just replace "Yosh" with "DIMAGA" | ||
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ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
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synapse
China13814 Posts
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PianoMan
Pakistan54 Posts
On December 22 2009 06:36 Stone[MB] wrote: banning them from tsl3, punishment seem too severe. how about a -1.5k point deduction players rank at end of tsl3. For most players that would be a DQ anyway I think. If a player is good then you do not care if he is an abuser? On December 22 2009 06:17 unk. wrote: funny thing that you are punishing players for some crime not even described by the codes of law (i mean it neither described @ iccup rules, nor @ TL rules, nor anywhere else ) Punishing for action not being forbidden by law is way beyond of how judacial system works. I am not agains banning those players from TL, since it is TL league and TL rules, but asking for banning them from all events is ... kinda lame. if you want make it professional - sit down with gg.net, iccup, wgt so on head admins and make some standart rules of what exactly is forbidden. Yes, it is unprofessional to ban people for abuse. It is much better to ban tons of people for someone else's crime and not care I guess, right unk? It's funny that of all people in the brood war community, you are the one talking about being unprofessional. It should be common sense that abusing is against the rules. I am sure TL did not say people cannot hack the ICCup system to give themselves free points, but I do not think they would allow people for qualification if they did that. It is a common sense. P i a n o M a n | ||
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Ecrilon
501 Posts
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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idortlol
United States13 Posts
Are there SC map hacks? The ability to rig your economy to make everything 9999(9)? Make your units invulnerable? Using a program to calculate targeting in battles/skirmishes? Just curious as to what each individual did to cheat. Not interesting in knowing how to cheat, but what they did to get punished. | ||
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unk.
111 Posts
On December 22 2009 06:53 PianoMan wrote: Yes, it is unprofessional to ban people for abuse. It is much better to ban tons of people for someone else's crime and not care I guess, right unk? It's funny that of all people in the brood war community, you are the one talking about being unprofessional. It should be common sense that abusing is against the rules. I am sure TL did not say people cannot hack the ICCup system to give themselves free points, but I do not think they would allow people for qualification if they did that. It is a common sense. P i a n o M a n none of my actions were taken against existing iccup rules. Sometimes rules are stupid, unfair etc, but you have a chance to read them. thats a difference. all those "abusive" actions at TSL were not forbidden by iccup rules in fact. it is not an abuse. anyway you missed the point. | ||
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PianoMan
Pakistan54 Posts
On December 22 2009 07:00 unk. wrote: none of my actions were taken against existing iccup rules. Sometimes rules are stupid, unfair etc, but you have a chance to read them. thats a difference. all those "abusive" actions at TSL were not forbidden by iccup rules in fact. it is not an abuse. anyway you missed the point. You make a mistake and think it is about iccup rules. TSL is about breaking of TSL rules, not iccup rules. You can not extend your self over the team liquid. If you make bad rules, then you are a bad admin. The players violate known fairplay by abusing. Just because a rule is not written does not mean it is not common sense. Do you lack the common sense? Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse. All players know they cannot abuse, or else they are as of you with the brain of a donkey. P i a n o M a n | ||
LosingID8
CA10824 Posts
On December 22 2009 06:58 idortlol wrote: Out of curiosity, what did these users do to cheat? I mean aside from obviously gaining an unfair advantage or being an accessory to cheating what did they do? Are there SC map hacks? The ability to rig your economy to make everything 9999(9)? Make your units invulnerable? Using a program to calculate targeting in battles/skirmishes? Just curious as to what each individual did to cheat. Not interesting in knowing how to cheat, but what they did to get punished. please read the thread before you post questions that have already been answered On December 22 2009 04:56 Torenhire wrote: Look in the right side, click the T*SL and find the threads that have info on all the Disqualifications. Edit - Here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107745 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=107728 | ||
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Lord_of_Chaos
Sweden372 Posts
On December 22 2009 06:17 unk. wrote: funny thing that you are punishing players for some crime not even described by the codes of law (i mean it neither described @ iccup rules, nor @ TL rules, nor anywhere else ) Punishing for action not being forbidden by law is way beyond of how judacial system works. I am not agains banning those players from TL, since it is TL league and TL rules, but asking for banning them from all events is ... kinda lame. if you want make it professional - sit down with gg.net, iccup, wgt so on head admins and make some standart rules of what exactly is forbidden. You are well enough versed in the community to already know that gg.net has a set of standardised rules when it comes to cheaters, hackers and abusers. These were made known years ago. First offense: 1 year, second offense: life time ban. This time we did not use full 1 year since, in our judgement, a few freewins is not the same thing as using maphack (Can be, and is, debated. It is gg.net's view on it however). Using less than one year ban is unprecedented on gg.net. Had we stuck with the exact wording of our rules all these players would have been banned for a full year. And if you want a standard rule for what exactly is forbidden, I think this will suffice: Cheating is not allowed. I also think that rule has been in place since the very dawn of sports. | ||
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unk.
111 Posts
On December 22 2009 07:03 PianoMan wrote: You make a mistake and think it is about iccup rules. TSL is about breaking of TSL rules, not iccup rules. You can not extend your self over the team liquid. If you make bad rules, then you are a bad admin. The players violate known fairplay by abusing. Just because a rule is not written does not mean it is not common sense. Do you lack the common sense? Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse. All players know they cannot abuse, or else they are as of you with the brain of a donkey. P i a n o M a n 1. i do not make any rules. i am not an admin. But i re-read rules before taking action. 2. In my 1st post i said that it is TSL league and TL rules and their deccision after all. I do respect it, even though i am not totally agree with it. 3. Common sense? people tend of lacking it. I can give you a lot of examples, but this will be a waste of time. i am pretty sure you can't even explain what exactly "abuse" is (concerning starcraft). | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
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Kickstart
United States1941 Posts
Just wanted to support the staff's decision and thank them for running an enjoyable and honorable event. | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
but its for the best i suppose | ||
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PianoMan
Pakistan54 Posts
On December 22 2009 07:11 unk. wrote: i am pretty sure you can't even explain what exactly "abuse" is (concerning starcraft). I am thinking no one can explain of what all abuse possibilities are. But I can explain that what these players did is abuse. Abuse is something that is easy to identify when it happens, and everyone knows what it is, even if it is not easy to explain every one possibility for it. P i a n o M a n | ||
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