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[TSL] TL Punishes Cheaters - Page 10

Forum Index > News
309 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 16 Next All
Suc
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1569 Posts
December 21 2009 23:46 GMT
#181
Good work TL, massive respect for your rule enforcing.
eXNewB
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada291 Posts
December 21 2009 23:47 GMT
#182
the only player who matters on that list is F91

all the other players were amateurs
THERES NO WAY HE CAN STOP THOSE HYDRAS!
wurm
Profile Joined October 2007
Philippines2296 Posts
December 21 2009 23:59 GMT
#183
On December 22 2009 08:43 NiteKat wrote:
I kind of see where unk. is coming from with what he is saying. Basically, what most of the abusers did WAS NOT against the rules of the iCCup ladder... giving a free win to a friend is not against the rules, as long as you do it within the amount of games you're allowed to play. You have every right to decide to leave a game at any point, so if I hopped in a game as a B rank player with a D rank friend, and leave after the 2 minute mark to give him points, it isn't breaking a single iCCup rule.

What unk is saying (I think), is that makes it ridiculous for TL and others to expect iCCup to ban the abusing players. Though unk, from what I can tell, has said nothing about it being wrong to ban from TL events and the next TSL.

Although I think the players that made a new account, played it up to their current rank, then had a friend give free wins through an account that received those stats via a transfer from the gaining player IS abuse by iCCup rules... unk, you may correct me if I am wrong on that case.

(As a funny side note, contrary to my example, I am NOT a B player ^^)


lol... Then if I had the time to find a few friends, I too, could've made A rank and could've been in the TSL without breaking a single rule! Damnit.

How would you feel if you were a legitimate A rank and somebody pulled that stunt to knock you back to spot #50? This isn't about cheating. This is about giving everybody a fair chance to qualify without abusing. It's easy to talk about rules when you have no chance to qualify, but for players who were just on the cusp of being in the TSL, different matter.
I know where my towel is.
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
December 22 2009 00:00 GMT
#184
On December 22 2009 04:33 Cobalt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2009 01:27 RaGe wrote:
On December 22 2009 01:11 Tazan_0 wrote:
Okay, normally I just lurk around here, never post much, but this thread is some of the most rage inciting garbage i've ever read. These players have put time into improving this website, and have contributed to the improvement of so many players here. I don't know about you, but watching scan stream has been one of the things that has most improved my play. If they played 3-4 games unfairly then fine, disqualify them from the TSL, but to ban their accounts from tl is to remove all contributions they provide to this website. I do not believe this is well thought out.


In all the abuse threads, the only people I've seen complain about punishments were the people that were actually friends with/fan of the players that got kicked. Never (I might have missed a few posts though) did I see a neutral person condemning our anti-abuse actions.

I think you should take some time to criticize yourself and see if you're really being objective here.

edit: And like mentioned before, they won't be banned from TL. Scan (skryoo) has been removed as a featured streamer though.




And the way I see it, using performance enhancing drugs is a much worse offense than ladder abuse, primarily because of the different effects. If a person conspires with another to get a couple free wins, it doesn't give him an inherent advantage over other players. Obviously it's an awful thing to do, since cheating in this way to qualify prevents another person from qualifying legitimately. But imagine, if this person cheats to get into the top48, and then wins the TSL, he has still proven himself to be the most skilled player in the tournament (as long as you trust the tournament structure to find the best player out of all entrants).


Well, if they cheated to get into the top 48, then who is to say the player won't map hack or use some other hack to get an unfair advantage to win the tournament? The TSL isn't played live in front of referees, so other than the honesty of the players and Team Liquids structure of catching cheaters(which has limits), there are no ways to find a legitimate winner in the TSL. The cheating player who circumvents Team Liquid's procedures and fair play morals wouldn't be the most skilled player like you mention, they would be the most skilled cheater.

Cheaters are cheaters and what TL has laid out is fair as both a punishment and deterant. Hopefully the players listed will also be scrutinzed thoroughly in their next entry into the scene, simular to a rapist returning to society(HAHA).

Still waiting on a gallows thread!
Rabbet
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada404 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 00:08:56
December 22 2009 00:08 GMT
#185
On December 22 2009 06:23 Hot_Bid wrote:



I don't think you realize how much cheating hurts competitions. One cheater here, there, probably won't make a huge impact. But once a culture of cheating is established, and everyone does it, then you have a competition that can't exist. Games like Starcraft are fun to watch because you do not know the outcome because the competition is fair and honest. If the priority was to sacrifice everything for good quality games, we'd rig it so the best two players got to the finals, and have them script out five 50 minute games that always came down to the final elimination. Would people watch that? No, because its completely dishonest and against the spirit of competition. People watch sports because of fair competition. Sacrificing that aspect of it will hurt you.



THIS.

It is essential to the enjoyment of EVERY game that the game be fair. We play this game fanatically because there is reasonable balance and fairness built right into the game. When there is a hint of dirt, it takes away from everyone's experience. I don't mind losing games of Starcraft, but when I find out they cheat it makes me want to not play anymore.
mmdmmd
Profile Joined June 2007
722 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 00:27:21
December 22 2009 00:25 GMT
#186
I don't think banning means much to these ppl since there are no planned events in the foreseeable future.

I too think F91 played a large role in this decision. The others, ban or not banned. No one will care.
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
December 22 2009 00:31 GMT
#187
On December 22 2009 09:25 mmdmmd wrote:
I don't think banning means much to these ppl since there are no planned events in the foreseeable future.

I too think F91 played a large role in this decision. The others, ban or not banned. No one will care.

Hey can you give back our list of planned events? I wondered where it had gotten to.
KleinerRiese
Profile Joined August 2009
Germany18 Posts
December 22 2009 00:38 GMT
#188
People who are defending the cheaters better think of the sponsor of this event. Do you think pokerstrategy.com want to be linked with cheaters and abusers? Do you think pokerstrategy.com will sponsor TSL3 as well when they know that there are abusers among the players?
thopol
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Japan4560 Posts
December 22 2009 00:39 GMT
#189
Thank you TL. Job well done.
NiteKat
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States146 Posts
December 22 2009 00:41 GMT
#190
On December 22 2009 08:59 wurm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2009 08:43 NiteKat wrote:
I kind of see where unk. is coming from with what he is saying. Basically, what most of the abusers did WAS NOT against the rules of the iCCup ladder... giving a free win to a friend is not against the rules, as long as you do it within the amount of games you're allowed to play. You have every right to decide to leave a game at any point, so if I hopped in a game as a B rank player with a D rank friend, and leave after the 2 minute mark to give him points, it isn't breaking a single iCCup rule.

What unk is saying (I think), is that makes it ridiculous for TL and others to expect iCCup to ban the abusing players. Though unk, from what I can tell, has said nothing about it being wrong to ban from TL events and the next TSL.

Although I think the players that made a new account, played it up to their current rank, then had a friend give free wins through an account that received those stats via a transfer from the gaining player IS abuse by iCCup rules... unk, you may correct me if I am wrong on that case.

(As a funny side note, contrary to my example, I am NOT a B player ^^)


lol... Then if I had the time to find a few friends, I too, could've made A rank and could've been in the TSL without breaking a single rule! Damnit.

How would you feel if you were a legitimate A rank and somebody pulled that stunt to knock you back to spot #50? This isn't about cheating. This is about giving everybody a fair chance to qualify without abusing. It's easy to talk about rules when you have no chance to qualify, but for players who were just on the cusp of being in the TSL, different matter.



Oh, don't worry, I was NOT defending the people who got DQed from the TSL... I was just making what I believe to be unk's point clear, that while TSL and TL.net rules may have been broken, not every case broke iCCup's rules... And iCCup rankings give no prizes, so... yeah, they're rules are less strict than TL used for the TSL.

I completely agree with the stance TL has taken on the issue. I just also understand what unk was saying.
timmeh
Profile Joined September 2009
Austria177 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 00:51:11
December 22 2009 00:48 GMT
#191
On December 22 2009 09:25 mmdmmd wrote:
I don't think banning means much to these ppl since there are no planned events in the foreseeable future.

I too think F91 played a large role in this decision. The others, ban or not banned. No one will care.


While I do agree that maybe the Abusers/cheaters don't care about the ban, it is not just about the exclusion of these players. This is about raising an awareness about cheating and cheaters. If one does not make a stand against these abusive actions, you inherently endorse and adopt such behaviour into the community as a whole. We would end up with a cheating culture where noone really cares.


Aside from that, I agree with the actions TL has taken. I don't really care to discuss the severity of the punishment. However, no matter how much I agree with this, I have to frown upon the idea where TL takes the privilege (couldn't find a better word on the fly) to tell other organizers whom to or not to include in their tournaments. Yes, someone has to be the avant garde, however, some of the declarations made seem little out of hand


P.s. What's the big deal with F91?
;o
538
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Hungary3932 Posts
December 22 2009 00:56 GMT
#192
Its kinda funny/sad how this thread has spawned a debate on whether these punishments are justified or not within the first few comments already.

I for one, even find them somewhat lenient. Here's to hoping we will see less cheaters and abusers in the future of the SC scene.
BW fighting!
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 01:35:17
December 22 2009 00:58 GMT
#193
On December 22 2009 09:48 timmeh wrote:
Aside from that, I agree with the actions TL has taken. I don't really care to discuss the severity of the punishment. However, no matter how much I agree with this, I have to frown upon the idea where TL takes the privilege (couldn't find a better word on the fly) to tell other organizers whom to or not to include in their tournaments. Yes, someone has to be the avant garde, however, some of the declarations made seem little out of hand

I think we are completely justified in asking other sites and tournaments to crack down on cheating. Nowhere did we say we "command" others to do this, we are simply urging them to do it. Ultimately it is their decision what to do about cheating and enforcement of fair play. I don't think we need some special privilege to just state our opinions and make requests.

Similarly, if another site held a tournament where a player abused, and then asked us to penalize that player for TSL3, we would strongly consider it. Its our decision but we certainly wouldn't be offended by them asking.

On December 22 2009 09:25 mmdmmd wrote:
I don't think banning means much to these ppl since there are no planned events in the foreseeable future.

I too think F91 played a large role in this decision. The others, ban or not banned. No one will care.

If these players don't care about the punishment and don't care about TSL3, that's fine. That's their choice -- we can't force someone to care about playing BW.

I don't understand what you mean about F91, are you saying he influenced the penalty decision somehow? Because I can assure you the player identities didn't matter at all when we were catching abusers and deciding punishments.

edit:
On December 22 2009 10:07 timmeh wrote:
Never meant you needed a privilege to state your opinions.

So then you have no problem with what we said? Because we're simply urging other sites to be more strict with cheaters. I don't think we overstepped our bounds to do this, as we were simply stating our opinion.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
timmeh
Profile Joined September 2009
Austria177 Posts
December 22 2009 01:07 GMT
#194
Never meant you needed a privilege to state your opinions.
;o
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
December 22 2009 01:08 GMT
#195
A lot of idiocy i this thread.

Good job TL staff I can't think of any better way to handle the situation. a lot of fan boys are heartbroken though I was so shocked to hear that these top players cheated..I'm used to the Korean scene and if a player like Stork or Luxury cheated...
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
movmou
Profile Joined September 2009
United States142 Posts
December 22 2009 01:25 GMT
#196
Good work TL.
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
December 22 2009 01:26 GMT
#197
Nicely done. It's unfortunate to see people cheat regardless of their skill level but it's even more unfortunate to have people taint the spirit of competition.

I agree with most that the penalties are fair and I hope the abusers can become honest players again.
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
annYeong(o11)
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada784 Posts
December 22 2009 01:34 GMT
#198
TL's about to drop the hammer and dispense some discriminant justice
Founder of the KiWiKaKi Fanclub: teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=188537 my keyboard is like half broken. like terran. please ignore typos, thanks
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
December 22 2009 01:36 GMT
#199
if TL do nothing against cheaters, then in the next TLS a lot of players will try to cheat again.

Now its guaranteed that no one will try it again.

awesome.

TSL is serious business and those players just made not only TSL but everything related to SC to look like childish stuff, like if its just a kid's game... acting like a bunch of kids...

look at those players stats, they barely played 100 games, they really don't care about SC, TSL, anything....
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
Slow Motion
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6960 Posts
December 22 2009 01:52 GMT
#200
What amazes me is that some of these cheaters still have fans, and some are still defending them. Sure they are talented and good at SC, but they have shown by their actions that they have no respect for any of the competitors, the sponsors, the staff, the fans, and the game.

This community is so successful because many of us love this game. There's no reason to defend people that shit all over us and this awesome game.
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