EPT[TSL] TL Punishes Cheaters - Page 10
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Suc
Australia1569 Posts
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eXNewB
Canada291 Posts
all the other players were amateurs | ||
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wurm
Philippines2296 Posts
On December 22 2009 08:43 NiteKat wrote: I kind of see where unk. is coming from with what he is saying. Basically, what most of the abusers did WAS NOT against the rules of the iCCup ladder... giving a free win to a friend is not against the rules, as long as you do it within the amount of games you're allowed to play. You have every right to decide to leave a game at any point, so if I hopped in a game as a B rank player with a D rank friend, and leave after the 2 minute mark to give him points, it isn't breaking a single iCCup rule. What unk is saying (I think), is that makes it ridiculous for TL and others to expect iCCup to ban the abusing players. Though unk, from what I can tell, has said nothing about it being wrong to ban from TL events and the next TSL. Although I think the players that made a new account, played it up to their current rank, then had a friend give free wins through an account that received those stats via a transfer from the gaining player IS abuse by iCCup rules... unk, you may correct me if I am wrong on that case. (As a funny side note, contrary to my example, I am NOT a B player ^^) lol... Then if I had the time to find a few friends, I too, could've made A rank and could've been in the TSL without breaking a single rule! Damnit. How would you feel if you were a legitimate A rank and somebody pulled that stunt to knock you back to spot #50? This isn't about cheating. This is about giving everybody a fair chance to qualify without abusing. It's easy to talk about rules when you have no chance to qualify, but for players who were just on the cusp of being in the TSL, different matter. | ||
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Rabbet
Canada404 Posts
On December 22 2009 04:33 Cobalt wrote: And the way I see it, using performance enhancing drugs is a much worse offense than ladder abuse, primarily because of the different effects. If a person conspires with another to get a couple free wins, it doesn't give him an inherent advantage over other players. Obviously it's an awful thing to do, since cheating in this way to qualify prevents another person from qualifying legitimately. But imagine, if this person cheats to get into the top48, and then wins the TSL, he has still proven himself to be the most skilled player in the tournament (as long as you trust the tournament structure to find the best player out of all entrants). Well, if they cheated to get into the top 48, then who is to say the player won't map hack or use some other hack to get an unfair advantage to win the tournament? The TSL isn't played live in front of referees, so other than the honesty of the players and Team Liquids structure of catching cheaters(which has limits), there are no ways to find a legitimate winner in the TSL. The cheating player who circumvents Team Liquid's procedures and fair play morals wouldn't be the most skilled player like you mention, they would be the most skilled cheater. Cheaters are cheaters and what TL has laid out is fair as both a punishment and deterant. Hopefully the players listed will also be scrutinzed thoroughly in their next entry into the scene, simular to a rapist returning to society(HAHA). Still waiting on a gallows thread! | ||
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Rabbet
Canada404 Posts
On December 22 2009 06:23 Hot_Bid wrote: I don't think you realize how much cheating hurts competitions. One cheater here, there, probably won't make a huge impact. But once a culture of cheating is established, and everyone does it, then you have a competition that can't exist. Games like Starcraft are fun to watch because you do not know the outcome because the competition is fair and honest. If the priority was to sacrifice everything for good quality games, we'd rig it so the best two players got to the finals, and have them script out five 50 minute games that always came down to the final elimination. Would people watch that? No, because its completely dishonest and against the spirit of competition. People watch sports because of fair competition. Sacrificing that aspect of it will hurt you. THIS. It is essential to the enjoyment of EVERY game that the game be fair. We play this game fanatically because there is reasonable balance and fairness built right into the game. When there is a hint of dirt, it takes away from everyone's experience. I don't mind losing games of Starcraft, but when I find out they cheat it makes me want to not play anymore. | ||
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
I too think F91 played a large role in this decision. The others, ban or not banned. No one will care. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On December 22 2009 09:25 mmdmmd wrote: I don't think banning means much to these ppl since there are no planned events in the foreseeable future. I too think F91 played a large role in this decision. The others, ban or not banned. No one will care. Hey can you give back our list of planned events? I wondered where it had gotten to. | ||
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KleinerRiese
Germany18 Posts
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
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NiteKat
United States146 Posts
On December 22 2009 08:59 wurm wrote: lol... Then if I had the time to find a few friends, I too, could've made A rank and could've been in the TSL without breaking a single rule! Damnit. How would you feel if you were a legitimate A rank and somebody pulled that stunt to knock you back to spot #50? This isn't about cheating. This is about giving everybody a fair chance to qualify without abusing. It's easy to talk about rules when you have no chance to qualify, but for players who were just on the cusp of being in the TSL, different matter. Oh, don't worry, I was NOT defending the people who got DQed from the TSL... I was just making what I believe to be unk's point clear, that while TSL and TL.net rules may have been broken, not every case broke iCCup's rules... And iCCup rankings give no prizes, so... yeah, they're rules are less strict than TL used for the TSL. I completely agree with the stance TL has taken on the issue. I just also understand what unk was saying. | ||
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timmeh
Austria177 Posts
On December 22 2009 09:25 mmdmmd wrote: I don't think banning means much to these ppl since there are no planned events in the foreseeable future. I too think F91 played a large role in this decision. The others, ban or not banned. No one will care. While I do agree that maybe the Abusers/cheaters don't care about the ban, it is not just about the exclusion of these players. This is about raising an awareness about cheating and cheaters. If one does not make a stand against these abusive actions, you inherently endorse and adopt such behaviour into the community as a whole. We would end up with a cheating culture where noone really cares. Aside from that, I agree with the actions TL has taken. I don't really care to discuss the severity of the punishment. However, no matter how much I agree with this, I have to frown upon the idea where TL takes the privilege (couldn't find a better word on the fly) to tell other organizers whom to or not to include in their tournaments. Yes, someone has to be the avant garde, however, some of the declarations made seem little out of hand  P.s. What's the big deal with F91? | ||
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538
Hungary3932 Posts
I for one, even find them somewhat lenient. Here's to hoping we will see less cheaters and abusers in the future of the SC scene. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36390 Posts
On December 22 2009 09:48 timmeh wrote: Aside from that, I agree with the actions TL has taken. I don't really care to discuss the severity of the punishment. However, no matter how much I agree with this, I have to frown upon the idea where TL takes the privilege (couldn't find a better word on the fly) to tell other organizers whom to or not to include in their tournaments. Yes, someone has to be the avant garde, however, some of the declarations made seem little out of hand I think we are completely justified in asking other sites and tournaments to crack down on cheating. Nowhere did we say we "command" others to do this, we are simply urging them to do it. Ultimately it is their decision what to do about cheating and enforcement of fair play. I don't think we need some special privilege to just state our opinions and make requests. Similarly, if another site held a tournament where a player abused, and then asked us to penalize that player for TSL3, we would strongly consider it. Its our decision but we certainly wouldn't be offended by them asking. On December 22 2009 09:25 mmdmmd wrote: I don't think banning means much to these ppl since there are no planned events in the foreseeable future. I too think F91 played a large role in this decision. The others, ban or not banned. No one will care. If these players don't care about the punishment and don't care about TSL3, that's fine. That's their choice -- we can't force someone to care about playing BW. I don't understand what you mean about F91, are you saying he influenced the penalty decision somehow? Because I can assure you the player identities didn't matter at all when we were catching abusers and deciding punishments. edit: On December 22 2009 10:07 timmeh wrote: Never meant you needed a privilege to state your opinions. So then you have no problem with what we said? Because we're simply urging other sites to be more strict with cheaters. I don't think we overstepped our bounds to do this, as we were simply stating our opinion. | ||
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timmeh
Austria177 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
Good job TL staff I can't think of any better way to handle the situation. a lot of fan boys are heartbroken though  I was so shocked to hear that these top players cheated..I'm used to the Korean scene and if a player like Stork or Luxury cheated... | ||
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movmou
United States142 Posts
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Titusmaster6
United States5937 Posts
I agree with most that the penalties are fair and I hope the abusers can become honest players again. | ||
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annYeong(o11)
Canada784 Posts
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
Now its guaranteed that no one will try it again. awesome. TSL is serious business and those players just made not only TSL but everything related to SC to look like childish stuff, like if its just a kid's game... acting like a bunch of kids... look at those players stats, they barely played 100 games, they really don't care about SC, TSL, anything.... | ||
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Slow Motion
United States6960 Posts
This community is so successful because many of us love this game. There's no reason to defend people that shit all over us and this awesome game. | ||
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