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@L and if the opposite? Well, anyone running for mayor has the same threat attached to them, only that if NemY was mafia, he's far more likely to be scrutinized and killed off early. Basically draw yourself up a prisoner's dilemma for the situation in the case that nemy is telling the truth, or if nemy is lying from his perspective and see what he should have done. This is basically how you need to analyze most of people's actions. Determine if the risk outweighs the benefits.
There's a higher proportion of mafia members running for office than those who are not, yet they're all fairly kiddy gloving amongst themselves besides nemy. There's also a number of very odd trends with respect to voting and actions in this thread.
I'm not saying assume the guy is innocent, I'm saying the risk/benefit ratio is substantially higher if we get him in. Don't roleclaim to him even if he is voted in.
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Sydney2287 Posts
Ugh. Hungover. I can't believe I posted this morning. Reading through now, preliminary thoughts are that we shouldn't let the nemy roleclaim distract us from the elections.
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Hmm, i think maybe we should find a way to keep nemy alive at least for now.
I'm still uncertain if Nemy should have an office role, cause there might be someone better suited for the roles and possibly need it more, though I'm not 100% certain about it.
Other then keeping a close on nemy I'm not sure what else to do. Nemy kinda put us in a pickle here =\.
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Poland8075 Posts
I would say that if there are medics, we may want to put one on nemy in case he actually is a dt. However, mafia may be counting on this and hit other people?
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I would say that we should vote him in.
Feel free to look at the actual benefits of office. They are limited to not being killed and fucking the town over. We have a number of very good players that can clue analyze and I'm certain they will be getting medic protection.
Also, I seriously want people to go read mafia 2's section on this after checking out who was mafia.
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I don't feel persuaded enough to think that Nemy should get office.
But I definitely agree with bockit, we should focus on this election!
We should also i guess consider the first lynch possibly?
As far as medics go, we possibly can just focus on that after the election, we should still have plenty of time for that right?
So let's look at our candidates, and try to make the best decisions.
Cause yeah we could vote Nemy in, fine but that also means we can leave another important player vulnerable. So there might be a sacrifice no matter what, so pick the better of the two.
Also even if you say we can just protect one with medic, but then we can still lose that player if mafia stacks hits. So just thinking "oh we protect nemy by giving him office and just use a med to protect a player who could be possibly more useful (analyzing wise)" is not good, cause mafia stacks, we lose our more skilled player.
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Preliminary Vote Count:
Ace - 3
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0cz3c <-- from Ver
Ver <-- from Caller
Malongo <-- from Fishball
Abstain - 3
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nemY
HeavOnEarth
Fishball <-- from Scaramanga
fusionsdf
HeavOnEarth <-- from nemY
nemY - 2
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fusionsdf <-- from Abstain
HeavOnEarth <-- from Abstain
RebirthOfLegend
Ver - 6
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BloodyC0bbler
Caller
Scaramanga
Mynock
0cz3c
dreamflower
RebirthOfLeGenD
Vivi57
BloodyC0bbler - 1
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Tricode
Showtime! - 3
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Bockit
MTF
Incognito
Mynock - 4
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LucasWoJ
mikeymoo
Ace
Amber[LighT]
Fishball - 0
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Malongo
Caller - 0
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Ver
Scaramanga - 0
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Fishball
Total - 22
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Ver - 6
Mynock - 4
Ace - 3
Showtime! - 3
nemY - 2
BloodyC0bbler - 1
Abstain - 3
Non-voters - 8
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Scamp
Plexa
Camlito
Showtime!
Infundibulum
infinity21
MrBabyHands
L
Voting closes in 23 hours and 30 minutes.
You will get a 30 minute warning before I close the voting. If you change your vote, please make a new post. I don't want to risk missing an edit. Finally, as the election draws to a close, would competitive candidates please PM me who they would like to autolynch? Also, let me know if you wish to pardon. (Though I realize this may rely upon whom the mayor wishes to lynch. If it does not, please let me know.)
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On May 17 2009 13:46 L wrote:
I would say that we should vote him in.
Feel free to look at the actual benefits of office. They are limited to not being killed and fucking the town over. We have a number of very good players that can clue analyze and I'm certain they will be getting medic protection.
Also, I seriously want people to go read mafia 2's section on this after checking out who was mafia.
Clue analyzers almost never get the protection they deserve, i honestly dunno where you got that idea.
As for this nemy debacle.
If he is a DT, he would be useful, but if hes this retarded dumb to get caught already by mafia, he wont last long to use his abilities, and as a mayor we can never prove hes legit regardless of his role.
If hes elected and DT the mafia/traitor will convince people hes red and get him lynched and if hes red, town will have wasted their elected role and have to pin him and get him lynched.
Even if he is a DT, at this point his usefulness wont last long due to his compromised role.
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Sydney2287 Posts
Nemy, best way to prove your legitimacy is if you post these pms.
If as you say, mafia were onto you, then they know about the pms already and as such, it hurts you in no way to release them to the town (And the fact that you're already fucked because you roleclaimed dt on day 1).
I'm going to pm you now to direct you to this post. If you can't provide these pms which supposedly show you to be found out already within a reasonable time, then I have serious reservations about the legitimacy of your roleclaim.
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Bockit, do take in consideration pm's can be tampered with =\ So don't fully rely on them.
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Sydney2287 Posts
I'm more wanting to see how long it takes him to post them. Ie if he tampers or fabricates them.
I've pm'd him too so he knows about this.
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but that also means we can leave another important player vulnerable. Important player? There are maybe 5-7 members of this game who are not very strong players. Out of the 23-25 that are strong players, equal distribution gives 5 that are mafia and 1 is the traitor. The town will have 15-17 unprotected strong players regardless of who we choose to put in.
Running purely on player 'worth' means we allow far more leverage to put the strongest mafia players in office. Running on post history and in-game action gives us a slightly better shot.
Also, with 3 kp, its highly unlikely that mafia stacks early unless one of these 'high value' role detector players is on their side. If they do stack, high fives all around, they're essentially crippling themselves for little gain. Mafia plays against the clue clock. The longer the game goes on, the easier it is to pick them out cluewise and the easier it is for them to make a mis-step.
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The more information we have to play with, the more people that end up talking, etc...
Although that leads the game into more finger pointing and chaos, which the style nemy seems to be playing is building. Very few roles would benefit from town chaos.
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Sydney2287 Posts
EBWOP: To clarify, I don't care at all what the content is. I just know that if he has these pms he can simply copy paste them into the thread.
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I can tell you if they've been edited 
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Bockit, i think he should of done so a while ago =\
When he first mentioned who he talked to.
Either case, he has more then enough time to tamper with them.
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Clue analyzers almost never get the protection they deserve, i honestly dunno where you got that idea You can't protect everyone all the time. If you're going off last game, the medics were pretty off the wall. Better players means better medics. Lets hope that holds true.
And Bockit, for someone that was in IRC with me finding ways to fuck empyrean over during Mafia 2, you're looking at this in an awfully interesting way. Also, why you drunk so much? O_o
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I figured as much bockit, but the issue becomes, part of those pm's will be who he was corresponding with. This will cause finger pointing and chaos. Leaving the town to be distracted from discussion rather than voting, which means he is prob covering for one of the many people running for mayor/pardoner, most likely one who is holding decent amount of votes.
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On May 17 2009 09:17 L wrote: No it isn't. Its incredibly fucking easy. I can already name 3 blue roles from the way people are acting, its pretty transperant.
I don't necessarily think you're mafia (again) but you keep insisting that you already know 3 blues. You obviously feel confident about this. So, why do you feel this way? I think it would be more normal to suspect 3 blues/reds not just 3 blues. You'd only know that for sure if you were mafia.
Moving on...I haven't read the Empyrean thing yet. (If anyone can give me a summary that would be great though, else I'll read it now.) But I think we should be wary about the people trying to cast doubt on nemY. If he is actually a DT mafia would try hard to keep him out.
Medics...no point making a medic list. We have so many good players mafia might just simply ignore the list and not have to worry about the "good players" on the list.
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VOTE FOR NEMY
I agree with L, this gambit he is trying is too risky for mafia to try.
I am pretty sure that nemy is not the traitor based on his behavior. The way he has been acting so far does not coincide with what I would deem "Vet game" mafia play. In such a small game risking one mafia that quick is never a smart decision. I think Nemy felt a legitimate threat and that is why he came out.
Now if we elect Nemy and he is a DT the benefits are really good.
He has 3 role checks which he can use to check active people in an attempt to form a town circle and narrow down suspects.
Yes, I am aware there is a traitor and a Godfather, however the Godfather most likely will pose as a medic or a townie which are the easiest roles to fake. However 3 role checks are really valuable this game and could help us all out very much, especially if he pins a mafia. If he role checks and says someone is mafia and we lynch them and they aren't, well we just kill nemy. If he plays like a jackass mafia, well we kill nemy. Its not hard, but I think getting him in a protected role provides us with a decent start. By reading posts I am sure many of you see some of the things that I see. There are a few people posting odd and inconsistent. Nemy does not seem to be one of them yet.
I won't pretend nemy is some godsend sent to lead the town, I have no idea on his leadership skills, I have never to my recollection played a mafia game with him, at least where he played a significant role. But his powers as a DT will prove invaluable in the future. He will gain consults or find out prominent mafia.
I urge people to vote nemy into office. He seems like one of the only secure votes we will have. While his gambit could get him killed or into office, I can assure its a risk the mafia will NOT want to take by risking one of there own role claiming DT.
If he is the Traitor the mafia will kill him anyway because they can't be sure if he is a DT or not. If he gets in and is the traitor we will most likely be able to figure it out pretty quick by lack of any progress. I suspect within 2 days we can kill him and be sure hes the traitor. Yeah it might but us back if he is, but its a worthwhile risk.
I have more reasons which I don't want to list right now.
So once again, Vote nemy
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EPT
