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On May 10 2009 03:20 Malongo wrote:
I think its clear that Malongo and Mynock share opinions in this case. For those that call this "perfect balance" lets make a small summary of the lynchs (the power of the town):
Day 1: Qatol Mayor, Inerpinept lynched.
Day 2: Multiple discussion, 3 people to lych nobody mafia, versatile lynched.
Day 3: Qatol get away saving his ass, Quickstriker lunched.
Day 4: Qatol annihilated.
Day 5: Town gets 2 mafia, inactivity kills town, mafia sway the votes GG.
I mean wheres the balance? Even with full town activity day 5 mafia could have easily sway the lynch, and in that point numbers were like 25 or so townies to 9 mafia. Assuming the game is "perfectly balanced" means town has to lynch forcefully day 2 or 3, and even then i doubt the result could have change. Lets suppose Qatol lynched day 3, then day 4 what? monoxide? quickstriker? we would have come to day 5 in exaclty the same position AT BEST with an extra mafia lynched. I really think calling the game balanced is nonsense, mafia won i have no trouble about that, they played well and the town bad. However this game was not balanced. Period.
Lol. Please. The game was perfectly balanced. Mynock, just so you know, we weren't sure with which rules we were playing either, at least not initially. When LTT began working with the mafia, we didn't know what his objectives were. Although we had information (which we're supposed to have), we were still vague on some of them. If you asked him 55 times, did you think he would tell you the 6th time if he didn't tell you the 5th time? Clearly he didn't see an issue with that. You should have used that to your advantage instead of simply saying, "This is now impossible."
And that wasn't simply the reason you guys lost. We could have been very well at a deficit. You could have won with ease. First, you had the election of Qatol. Really? The voting was unanimous. Did this not strike anyone in the town as far too suspicious (suspicious enough to switch the votes)? REALLY? Not only did you elect a mafia mayor but you also immediately started out with -1 townies. Malongo, I really don't think you understand what I mean when I say perfectly balanced. Theoretically this game was perfectly balanced, and we would have lost had the town not played so stupidly (although I'm willing to give mafia a lot of credit, since we did cover up any good posts fairly well).
Nighttime. We get two DTs. This may or may not have happened with luck, but with their behavior/pms conspicuously revealing them as DTs, eclipse and Lucas deduced that they were DTs. Know what this shows me? Town screwed up here. This wasn't an issue with the balance of the game; it was an issue with the way the town decided to play the game. It was playing a losing strategy.
Next day. Qatol should be dead by now. I mean, both malongo and Ace, almost side-by-side, revealed it to everyone. And it was just ignored. Sure we spammed our posts so that people ignore their posts, but the town ignored obvious evidence that Qatol was mafia. Do you know how ecstatic we were? There should have been NO reason for him to live, but we managed to shift blame on Versatile, and, by shifting some blame on Ace (Qatol put himself on equal footing on Ace), we got Ace killed during the night. Town screwed up twice here. Stupid moves. Twice. And you got rid of Ace. The only apparent voice of reason. We were at a HUGE advantage then, and although we didn't start with one, the town really worked hard to give us one.
Don't worry Malongo, because the town managed to screw up again. Of course, balance wasn't an issue; the sheer chaos and stupidity in the town did well to help us win. (That's not fair: Qatol switched his vote so that suspicion would be cast, and it was a smart move by him.) You guys helped us lynch Quickstriker. WHAT? Although this game clearly began balanced, at this point, victory was almost impossible for guys who refused to do anything intelligent. I mean, you played almost as poorly as you can. When we learned that Qatol would live for another day, we were baffled. By this time, we also knew the identity of a DT and medic. Because they told Qatol. Again, town screws up. One mistake after another. It just didn't end with you guys. I don't know whether we played brilliantly or whether you guys just didn't play. If this game wasn't balanced, then we must have played to perfection, because there should have been no reason for us to win in a cogent town. But this wasn't a cogent town.
We also noticed the town's inactivity. We avoided hitting dead inactives (checking post counts versus those simply avoiding the thread).
And, again, your inactivity lost it for you in the very end. This game, in theory, was perfectly balanced, I think. If the town thought, and posted their thoughts, then we stood a good chance of losing. However, Mynock raises a good point: rules should not be hidden from the players. That's just absurd. But how far different of an outcome would that have made? Would it have made the town not lynch Quickstriker, or Versatile, or vigi Ace? Hardly. And, by that time, the game really was lost. Everything we did after that was calculated (we knew that if we came into the open at a certain point, we could not lose; if we recognized we could lose, then we would have continued playing).
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Malongo,
if the town had another 3 active people with their heads out of their asses, the votes on day 2, 3 and 4 would have been different and we wouldn't have been able to pull a 2 mafia lynch and plop it onto 2 townies AND cut the double lynch. If the town didn't have multiple members trying to incriminate themselves by posting like retards and refusing to explain their wild accusations, voting would have been different too. Both versatile and ace played very poorly during day 2 which gave us a huge opening which we capitalized on.
The reason why it seems like things were so lopsided is because the vast majority of blues stuck their necks out and got raped. There were ZERO vigi hits on mafia, ZERO CK hits on mafia, a late start to double lynching and incredibly poor accuracy from town. Mafia teams were 5 people each: if you double lynched us correctly on that day 5 post, we would have dropped to 4kp, and been largely fucked if you followed that up with another successful double lynch. Needed more time to smoke out mafia? Doesn't seem like it due to all of these "lol i knew 3 mafia on day 2" posts we're getting.
Additionally, Qatol and I talked about having to kill the other family the moment he told me he called out Ver. When I was arguing that mafia would work together despite having to kill each other at the end, I wasn't talking out of my ass. I was actually giving you the exact reason why it would happen regardless of the end rules. Mafia having to kill each other at the end is irrelevant if they recognize what mafia have in prior games: More days means more clues. More clues means you can't hide forever. You NEED the other mafia's killing power to chop the town down to size.
I mean, go ahead and look at what happened each day as you listed it. Each were good plays by us and terrible plays by the town. Should we lose for playing near perfectly? Should we lose because the vast majority of your players decided to play footsie in PMs and got raped for it? According to you, the town should have had an equal chance to win despite a grand total of 4 members of the entire town actually putting in meaningful work. Sorry but that's not balance.
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On May 09 2009 22:10 Ace wrote:
yea like they said, even getting 2 protections right is pretty damn good. At least your instincts seemed to be in the right direction.
And as a general idea, we dont need a town circle to win. You just need to know how to roleclaim. This doesn't mean you see some guy you think is legit and give up your role - that's generally a bad idea. You have discussions or whatever, hopefully public, and when you are certain there is no way the person can be mafia then maybe you roleclaim.
As for balance, this game was balanced. The 2 Mafia would have eventually had to kill each other at some point but the game just ended because of how lopsided it was looking. If the town had managed to kill even 2 more mafia no one would be complaining about balance. From the Mafia point of view they somewhat have to work together if the town is on their shit or else they will both be wiped out.
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you know it's bad play when the Mafia kill more Mafia than the town.
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On May 09 2009 22:10 Ace wrote:
As for balance, this game was balanced. The 2 Mafia would have eventually had to kill each other at some point but the game just ended because of how lopsided it was looking. If the town had managed to kill even 2 more mafia no one would be complaining about balance. From the Mafia point of view they somewhat have to work together if the town is on their shit or else they will both be wiped out.
Incorrect. We were allowed to work together from the start. There was never any condition for us that we had to kill the other family.
To make this perfectly clear: BC told us right after night 1 that we were allowed to unite. Us sharing the full mafia list had nothing to do with anything. There was never a condition where we had to kill each other. Instead, we were told we COULD kill each other, or we could unite. It was totally our choice.
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On May 10 2009 01:50 Malongo wrote:
This is so wrong people. The moment both mafias "found" eachother there was no more balance with these winning conditions. I mean to be "perfectly balanced" the game ended day 5, theres no way you can call this perfect balance even with the town inactive and not playing well.
Then why was chuiu's game seen as balanced possibly favoring the mafia? Same mafia count. Same KP. There was 1 less vigi but 2 veterans. There were 2 CKs but no millers. And there was no sheriff. Oh yeah, and the mafia could kill each other night 1.... Seems to me like the mafia took a pretty big hit when comparing this game to last game.
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Ok im out of the this discussion. Really nobody really addresed the main point in my post, L and 0czec feel that im attacking mafia. Read the post. EVEN IF THE TOWN LYNCHED ANOTHER MAFIA THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Please learn to read thi is disgusting. Im not evaluating who played better or what the town made wrong. The fact is what i posted in caps. If you cant discuss that ima stop now. So for town to get a chance has to kill AT LEAST 2 mafia by day 5. Stop acting like a inmature im discussing the balance not how did you play.
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On May 10 2009 05:02 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 01:50 Malongo wrote:
This is so wrong people. The moment both mafias "found" eachother there was no more balance with these winning conditions. I mean to be "perfectly balanced" the game ended day 5, theres no way you can call this perfect balance even with the town inactive and not playing well. Then why was chuiu's game seen as balanced possibly favoring the mafia? Same mafia count. Same KP. There was 1 less vigi but 2 veterans. There were 2 CKs but no millers. And there was no sheriff. Oh yeah, and the mafia could kill each other night 1.... Seems to me like the mafia took a pretty big hit when comparing this game to last game.
Please stop taking this personal. I said that game that it was imba mafia too. Ok just forget this.
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On May 10 2009 03:20 Malongo wrote:
I think its clear that Malongo and Mynock share opinions in this case. For those that call this "perfect balance" lets make a small summary of the lynchs (the power of the town):
Day 1: Qatol Mayor, Inerpinept lynched.
Day 2: Multiple discussion, 3 people to lych nobody mafia, versatile lynched.
Day 3: Qatol get away saving his ass, Quickstriker lunched.
Day 4: Qatol annihilated.
Day 5: Town gets 2 mafia, inactivity kills town, mafia sway the votes GG.
I mean wheres the balance? Even with full town activity day 5 mafia could have easily sway the lynch, and in that point numbers were like 25 or so townies to 9 mafia. Assuming the game is "perfectly balanced" means town has to lynch forcefully day 2 or 3, and even then i doubt the result could have change. Lets suppose Qatol lynched day 3, then day 4 what? monoxide? quickstriker? we would have come to day 5 in exaclty the same position AT BEST with an extra mafia lynched. I really think calling the game balanced is nonsense, mafia won i have no trouble about that, they played well and the town bad. However this game was not balanced. Period.
Assuming perfect balance, the town figures out a way to decrease KP before day 5..... With any previous setup, the town still would have lost if they only managed to find 1 mafia on their own before day 5. Are you trying to say the town should be allowed to miss on the first 3 lynches + a vigi hit + lose another vigi without him using his hit and still have a reasonable chance to win?
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On May 10 2009 05:08 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 03:20 Malongo wrote:
I think its clear that Malongo and Mynock share opinions in this case. For those that call this "perfect balance" lets make a small summary of the lynchs (the power of the town):
Day 1: Qatol Mayor, Inerpinept lynched.
Day 2: Multiple discussion, 3 people to lych nobody mafia, versatile lynched.
Day 3: Qatol get away saving his ass, Quickstriker lunched.
Day 4: Qatol annihilated.
Day 5: Town gets 2 mafia, inactivity kills town, mafia sway the votes GG.
I mean wheres the balance? Even with full town activity day 5 mafia could have easily sway the lynch, and in that point numbers were like 25 or so townies to 9 mafia. Assuming the game is "perfectly balanced" means town has to lynch forcefully day 2 or 3, and even then i doubt the result could have change. Lets suppose Qatol lynched day 3, then day 4 what? monoxide? quickstriker? we would have come to day 5 in exaclty the same position AT BEST with an extra mafia lynched. I really think calling the game balanced is nonsense, mafia won i have no trouble about that, they played well and the town bad. However this game was not balanced. Period.
Assuming perfect balance, the town figures out a way to decrease KP before day 5..... With any previous setup, the town still would have lost if they only managed to find 1 mafia on their own before day 5. Are you trying to say the town should be allowed to miss on the first 3 lynches + a vigi hit + lose another vigi without him using his hit and still have a reasonable chance to win?
HOLY SHIT YES. You think the game has to be defined in 5 days and 4 town lynches? First of all you are still adressing points that are not part of the balance. Mafia hitting vigi and vigi doing stupid moves arent part of the balance.
a) The town didnt miss the first 3 lynches (the mayor Mafia misslynched 1then 2 mislynches 1 mafia) SO the counter point is everytime the mafia takes the office the town has to lynch 2/3? this is nonsense and what i have been telling all aroun EVEN THINKING IN 2/3 WE WERE SCREWE
D
b) Afaik your KP OF 6 didnt decrease after losing a mafia (one family). So even lynching 2/3 at best we would have decreased 1 KP. and then DAY 5 town would have been the same. Ok im out.
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United States2186 Posts
It feels like my posts keep getting ignored. One last try, since there are still a bunch of misconceptions.
This game was not meant to be a full 2 family game. 2 mafia families with 3 KP and 5 members stand absolutely no chance in a 55 player game with that many blues. The 2 mafia families were designed as a temporary handicap by BC. Yes Qatol roleclaiming to me day 2 was earlier than BC thought but it wasn't until late day 2 that we had an irc set up. This is a much more serious handicap than you think since it neuters one of the mafia's main advantages: early organization and communication. I've already said this multiple times but no you guys keep making up your own strange interpretations that have nothing to do with the game. 2 families with 3 KP/5 people can not win in this game setup. BC was using the 2 families to hurt the mafia early on to counteract their strong player lineup. Qatol and I were both told a bunch of different things and lied to repeatedly by him to keep us in the dark. I can't say that I ever had any idea that we were supposed to kill the other mafia. Qatol was under the impression that hits on the other mafia family would be refunded (in fact it was in the rules that you couldn't hit a mafia until Bockit died). In the end we managed to make up for Bockit's death by putting forward the idea of 2 families so that went in our favor but there were a lot of things restricted by the early division. From reading L's post right now apparently the other guys thought they might've had to kill us. Which is pretty hilarious because this just showed how little both mafia knew because we kept getting deceived (I know our side did not feel that we had to kill them at all).
Guys, Qatol roleclaimed to me since he was on the verge of quitting from getting lied to repeatedly about what was going on and killing a mafia member when he was told he couldn't. If I wasn't mafia (although he had good reasons for thinking I was) the game would've been over right then. Please don't make up some phony conspiracy theories of how the mafia played so tricky allying first when they weren't supposed to.
Yeah both sides were in the dark on a lot of things. I don't like that either. I fully agree with the rest that everyone should know the rules at the very least from the start, even if they don't know the role counts or whatever. That should not be happening. Here's an example of what I mean:
+ Show Spoiler + [BC] Your intelligent enough to know im balancing the game. You will only be gimped for night 1
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Original Message: [me]
I just got on and saw we haven't gotten the rest of the mafia. This is really crippling (at least a -1 mafia tally), especially since none of our 5 knows how to set up an irc channel lol. I assume we have 2 godfathers which makes it about even if we got the list right after the mayor elections but we haven't. Basically we can't organize anything and I have a killer plan that must be understood and ready to be executed early day 2 night.
Even without the organizational factor (the original strength of mafia anyway) I can't see how you expect us to operate in the night without knowing. What happens if we kill a mafia on the other list? Are there 2 families and we'll never know the other one or something?
I'll send you a kill list later tonight when I have more time. But I would like some answers.
Apparently BC never planned to tell me the other family and instead just wanted to lead us along and let us find out?? He ignored the rest of my pm's and all my other questions. Although I don't like the approach he took, it wasn't terrible; it just shouldn't really be done in the future. But we had a very serious handicap (no irc, no coordination, a major plan was put into action late day 2 instead of day 1).
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On May 10 2009 05:03 Malongo wrote:
Ok im out of the this discussion. Really nobody really addresed the main point in my post, L and 0czec feel that im attacking mafia. Read the post. EVEN IF THE TOWN LYNCHED ANOTHER MAFIA THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Please learn to read thi is disgusting. Im not evaluating who played better or what the town made wrong. The fact is what i posted in caps. If you cant discuss that ima stop now. So for town to get a chance has to kill AT LEAST 2 mafia by day 5. Stop acting like a inmature im discussing the balance not how did you play.
Ok, so with 2 vigi hits, 5 lynches, and you probably should have been using 2 double lynches by day 5 (9 kills) you can't kill 2 mafia?
I'm not saying anything about how I played. That is irrelevant right now. I'm just trying to ask you what you think would be balanced? How many mafia do you think the town should have to figure out by day 4? day 5? Personally, I think it should be at LEAST 3-4 by day 5.
I just went back and checked BC's first game (which was pretty close). 4 mafia dead day 4, 5 on day 5. Do you think the town needs to work faster than that? Slower than that?
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On May 10 2009 05:20 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 05:03 Malongo wrote:
Ok im out of the this discussion. Really nobody really addresed the main point in my post, L and 0czec feel that im attacking mafia. Read the post. EVEN IF THE TOWN LYNCHED ANOTHER MAFIA THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Please learn to read thi is disgusting. Im not evaluating who played better or what the town made wrong. The fact is what i posted in caps. If you cant discuss that ima stop now. So for town to get a chance has to kill AT LEAST 2 mafia by day 5. Stop acting like a inmature im discussing the balance not how did you play. Ok, so with 2 vigi hits, 5 lynches, and you probably should have been using 2 double lynches by day 5 (9 kills) you can't kill 2 mafia? I'm not saying anything about how I played. That is irrelevant right now. I'm just trying to ask you what you think would be balanced? How many mafia do you think the town should have to figure out by day 4? day 5? Personally, I think it should be at LEAST 3-4 by day 5. I just went back and checked BC's first game (which was pretty close). 4 mafia dead day 4, 5 on day 5. Do you think the town needs to work faster than that? Slower than that?
You sure checked about checklists didnt you? AH and no millers and rolechecks first day. Honestly im replying to a wall. LETS WORK THIS WAY QATOL:
1 First day lynch is random based. The town has almost 0 chance to get a mafia even with a townie in the office. TRUE OR FALSE you reply please.
2 Days 2, 3, 4 and five the town got a mafia lynch TRUE OR FALSE
3 EVEN supposing that town got 2 mafia lynchs day 2 3 4 DID THE TOWN STAND A CHANCE DAY 5? TRUE or FALSE.
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@Ver
All im saying is: after mafia A found mafia B there was no chance for the town. Just look at the numbers. The town should have played almost a perfect game to get a chance.
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Come on, im waiting for a reply that answer my true-false questions. Lets see how balanced the game was.
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On May 10 2009 05:27 Malongo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 05:20 Qatol wrote:On May 10 2009 05:03 Malongo wrote:
Ok im out of the this discussion. Really nobody really addresed the main point in my post, L and 0czec feel that im attacking mafia. Read the post. EVEN IF THE TOWN LYNCHED ANOTHER MAFIA THE RESULT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SAME. Please learn to read thi is disgusting. Im not evaluating who played better or what the town made wrong. The fact is what i posted in caps. If you cant discuss that ima stop now. So for town to get a chance has to kill AT LEAST 2 mafia by day 5. Stop acting like a inmature im discussing the balance not how did you play. Ok, so with 2 vigi hits, 5 lynches, and you probably should have been using 2 double lynches by day 5 (9 kills) you can't kill 2 mafia? I'm not saying anything about how I played. That is irrelevant right now. I'm just trying to ask you what you think would be balanced? How many mafia do you think the town should have to figure out by day 4? day 5? Personally, I think it should be at LEAST 3-4 by day 5. I just went back and checked BC's first game (which was pretty close). 4 mafia dead day 4, 5 on day 5. Do you think the town needs to work faster than that? Slower than that? You sure checked about checklists didnt you? AH and no millers and rolechecks first day. Honestly im replying to a wall. LETS WORK THIS WAY QATOL: 1 First day lynch is random based. The town has almost 0 chance to get a mafia even with a townie in the office. TRUE OR FALSE you reply please. 2 Days 2, 3, 4 and five the town got a mafia lynch TRUE OR FALSE 3 EVEN supposing that town got 2 mafia lynchs day 2 3 4 DID THE TOWN STAND A CHANCE DAY 5? TRUE or FALSE.
I agree day 1 lynch is totally random. Town has approximately a 1 in 5 chance of getting a mafia. However I think it isn't unreasonable for the town to have killed at least 1 mafia with the day 2 lynch and/or the night 2 vigi hits. KP formula this game was funky, but the town HAS to decrease it decently early or they stand no chance. And that is how I think it should be.
I argue that you are forgetting about vigi hits. Also you don't think it would have mattered if you had taken away a KP from us earlier? If you had killed say Ver day 2 and me day 3 (or vice versa)? Do you even know what that would have done to our bluesniping? Not to mention my family had about even odds of just putting in a hitlist on the other family.
I realize that game had votechecks. Vigilantes also had 2 hits instead of 1. Notice I decreased the number of mafia I expected to catch by day 5 (the town had 5 and could have barely won if they had stayed active; I said I expect town to have caught 3-4 on our their meaning 4-5 dead mafia thanks to 2 families). Again, how many dead mafia do you think is reasonable by day 4 or day 5?
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United States2186 Posts
On May 10 2009 05:31 Malongo wrote:
@Ver
All im saying is: after mafia A found mafia B there was no chance for the town. Just look at the numbers. The town should have played almost a perfect game to get a chance.
You are completely wrong, sorry.
If town played perfectly with qatol as mayor.
mayor lynch- miss
day 1- hit (vote double)
day 2- vigi 2x hit, lynch 2x hit (vote double)
day 3- lynch 2x hit (vote double)
day 4- lynch 2x hit
9 mafia dead by day 4. Assuming perfect game with qatol as mayor. Considering bockit died by mafia hands that would've been game by day 4 (which is around when mafia had pretty much victory guaranteed). Obviously you don't need a perfect game to win or anything close. With 9 potential KP, even 2 hits would've worked out ok and you could've went into late game on reasonable footing. Mafia with 4 KP is very different than mafia with 6 KP.
Double lynches, misused vigi hits. You guys had plenty of KP, just didn't use it since you had all the wrong targets and so much uncertainty. Blues didn't hide themselves well, etc.
Arguing this is kinda ridiculous. BC even gave you guys more blues than he should've (extra dt and medic).
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4492 Posts
On May 10 2009 05:19 Ver wrote:
Guys, Qatol roleclaimed to me since he was on the verge of quitting from getting lied to repeatedly about what was going on and killing a mafia member when he was told he couldn't. If I wasn't mafia (although he had good reasons for thinking I was) the game would've been over right then. Please don't make up some phony conspiracy theories of how the mafia played so tricky allying first when they weren't supposed to.
That's just what I said but it's phrased differently. The game would have ended right there, so BC patched things up so it isn't. Mafia went complaining to BC first, since they noticed it first, and got what they wanted. So you really think the game was meant to be played that way? Obviously not, since you disagree with BC's ways as well. BC should have made the two families completely separate, and actually that's what the Town always believed is the case. THE WHOLE GAME. EVERY goddamn lynch attempt was made with that in mind. This also goes to Qatol. You also used this misconception, and based all your defense on it. You knew the rules didn't work like that by then, because by that time BC told you the truth. Ver also knew, and he then came up with his own defense, which was ALSO based on how the two families would have to kill each other in the end. You were basically lying to the Town about the RULES of the game, even tho you guys were ready to throw it all when you felt that YOU were being lied to. Still, it's OK to deceive the Town in the same way, right?
Qatol, you're saying Town played poorly by not lynching a mafia earlier? Town partly left you in office for all that time, because it figured you will at least fight the other Mafia. BC was watching all that, and never ever decided that maybe Town should actually know what they're playing. Hell, there might have been a surprise third faction of Vampires, how would we know?
Yes, maybe BC lied to you guys for the first night, but he never told the truth to the Town for the WHOLE game. You had a slow start, Town was crippled from the beginning to the very end.
Lying about in-game stuff is OK (hell, that's what this game is about, deception), lying about the RULES of the game, when you, in fact, know better, is pretty dirty.
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On May 10 2009 05:44 Ver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 05:31 Malongo wrote:
@Ver
All im saying is: after mafia A found mafia B there was no chance for the town. Just look at the numbers. The town should have played almost a perfect game to get a chance. You are completely wrong, sorry. If town played perfectly with qatol as mayor. mayor lynch- miss day 1- hit (vote double) day 2- vigi 2x hit, lynch 2x hit (vote double) day 3- lynch 2x hit (vote double) day 4- lynch 2x hit 9 mafia dead by day 4. Assuming perfect game with qatol as mayor. Considering bockit died by mafia hands that would've been game by day 4 (which is around when mafia had pretty much victory guaranteed). Obviously you don't need a perfect game to win or anything close. With 9 potential KP, even 2 hits would've worked out ok and you could've went into late game on reasonable footing. Mafia with 4 KP is very different than mafia with 6 KP. Double lynches, misused vigi hits. You guys had plenty of KP, just didn't use it since you had all the wrong targets and so much uncertainty. Blues didn't hide themselves well, etc. Arguing this is kinda ridiculous. BC even gave you guys more blues than he should've (extra dt and medic).
Yeah ver whatever. So the town has to use the double lynchs asap and everyday to get the perfect game. You are indeed right arguing with you is ridiculous your points are absurd.
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4492 Posts
On May 10 2009 05:44 Ver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2009 05:31 Malongo wrote:
@Ver
All im saying is: after mafia A found mafia B there was no chance for the town. Just look at the numbers. The town should have played almost a perfect game to get a chance. You are completely wrong, sorry. If town played perfectly with qatol as mayor. mayor lynch- miss day 1- hit (vote double) day 2- vigi 2x hit, lynch 2x hit (vote double) day 3- lynch 2x hit (vote double) day 4- lynch 2x hit 9 mafia dead by day 4. Assuming perfect game with qatol as mayor. Considering bockit died by mafia hands that would've been game by day 4 (which is around when mafia had pretty much victory guaranteed). Obviously you don't need a perfect game to win or anything close. With 9 potential KP, even 2 hits would've worked out ok and you could've went into late game on reasonable footing. Mafia with 4 KP is very different than mafia with 6 KP. Double lynches, misused vigi hits. You guys had plenty of KP, just didn't use it since you had all the wrong targets and so much uncertainty. Blues didn't hide themselves well, etc. Arguing this is kinda ridiculous. BC even gave you guys more blues than he should've (extra dt and medic).
You're arguing about something completely different here.
Both Malongo and me said this many times now: The Town played sucky. It didn't deserve to win. That's not the issue here. And arguing about perfect games and perfect plays is also obviously nonsense.
My key point here is: The Town and Mafia played by a different set of rules. And YOU knew it.
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