Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town, each day will reveal clues pointing to such individuals allowing the town to analyze them and point fingers all they want. Its much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. As many people sign up as you want and the game is balanced between a group of mafia and a large town with a variety of roles.
This mafia game works slightly different than the normal one (read: Mafia), so I'll explain it a bit more. During the night mafia will collectively decide on and send in their hits to me, who they want dead (its a good idea to discuss them during day so you know ahead of time). Any player with a special role that can act during night must PM me their actions each and every night.
During the day you will see the bloody death of many of your friends with a handful of clues left behind. Clues can be taken from anywhere, so long as I see it relating to the person they are intended for. This means posts, names, sigs, profiles, blogs, things related to names, etc. Emphasis on profile. Any player with a special role that can act during day must PM it to me so I can set it in motion. The whole town, including the mafia, will meet and discuss this turn of events and everyone will vote for who they want lynched that day.
If the mafia at any time outnumber the townspeople they win the game. The goal for the townspeople is to lynch all the members of the mafia by interpreting clues and voting for them during the day. The goal of the mafia, of course, is to kill the townspeople with murderous precision.
The game is typically very active and there are usually numerous walls of text to wade through. If you are not a person who likes reading then I highly suggest you don't play the game because it is essential to being informed within the game. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules: (they are all subject to change before the start of the game!)
General game rules:
1. Once you are dead you may not post anything at all. People are getting irritated with dead people talking so sorry but dead people are now forbidden from talking during the game. People not playing are advised not to post in the thread also. Moderators please help out with this where you can, if players insist on continuing to post I'll just ban them from playing the game again. 2. Try to keep posting mafia game related, the thread gets hard to read and annoying when there are 12 posts of spam per 1 post of actual content. 3. You must vote. Whether its 'I abstain from voting' or not you must cast a vote.
Voting rules, since people always need it spelled out.
1. You must post your vote in this thread. Do not PM or IM it to me. 2. You must clearly declare your vote ie: 'I vote for X'. 3. You can not autochange your vote to the losing or winning bandwagon. 4. You cannot vote for yourself or anyone dead or outside the game. 5. In the event of a tie the person with the most votes first wins over the other person. 6. You may abstain, but must let me know: ie: 'I abstain from voting'.
Signups: Post here to signup I will not take signups through PM or IM. This thread exists for a reason please use it. If I miss or forget your name politely remind me, this thread gets overwhelming sometimes and I may miss something. Remember what clues are based off of: If you don't have much information on the site or relating to you for me to access then don't blame me if people easily find out who you are by my clues.
Signups will close on 2/25/09 and the game will start 2/27/09.
Roles (you will randomly be given a role via PM once the game starts!)
The Town:
Detective - You may ask anytime during the day if a specific clue points to a specific person and receive a yes or no answer.
Private Eye - You get two abilities but you may only use one of them and they can be used anytime during the day.
Role check - You may ask me what role a specific person has and receive a clear answer.
Vote check - You may ask me how many mafia voted for a specific person on a specific day.
There is also a third option and you must declare your intent to do this to me before using any ability. The third option gives you the ability to use both a role guess and a vote check. You must also wait two days before being able to use the other. IE: You used a vote check on day 1, you cannot use the role guess till day 4.
Role Guess - You may guess the role of a specific player and receive a yes or no about your guess.
Each ability is a one time per game use.
Veteran - You have two abilities but you may only use one per day. During the morning you may gain a second vote which you must PM to me and will show up as 'Veteran' in the vote count. During the night if you did not use your second vote you will gain a second life which will protect you from one hit. The extra life will always be available unless you used it due to being hit at night. You will be notified anytime you lose that life.
Paramedic - You have the ability to prevent one hit on a player of your choice during the night. You must notify me of the player you wish to choose anytime during the day. Each paramedic can only stop one hit and as such if the number of mafia is greater than the number of paramedics on a player then that player will die (except if the player is a veteran with an extra life). You will know if you saved the person. The person will know if he was saved. And the town will know nothing of the event. Paramedics may not use their ability two consecutive nights in a row.
Mad Hatter - You have the ability to place a bomb on a specific player during the night. Anytime you die the player you placed the bomb on will die also. You must wait till the next night before you can move the bomb from target to target and you get the bomb back if a player should die before your bomb would kill them. Additionally during the night you may suicide bomb a player killing off both you and your target.
Town Abilities - The following abilities are elected by everyone. The vote must exceed half the number of players voting that day. IE: If there are 40 players voting then the town needs 21 votes to use a town ability. Town abilities cannot be used two consecutive days in a row, any number of each ability may be used unless otherwise noted, and only three total may be used during the course of the game. Town abilities do not apply to mafia.
Double Lynch: The next day the town lynches two people instead of one. This means everyone gets two votes to distribute between two different people. Veterans do not gain second extra votes and players may not use both their votes on the same person.
Overtime: The next day each player will gain the ability to use their role twice. This means veterans can use two extra votes, an extra vote and an extra life, or two extra lives for that night only; or paramedics may protect two players that night. Private Eye's and Mad Hatters do not benefit from this ability. This ability can only be used once.
Sanctuary: The night after this is voted on players of a specific role will be protected from all hits that night (mafia and mad hatter). This ability may only be used on any role once but may be used more than once.
The Mafia:
Mafia - Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in the mafia. You may not kill other mafia. Mafia killing power is decided after signups are closed and will be shown next to the mafia count in the player count lists.
Don: You are the superfluous leader of the mafia. Can order only one of the following during the course of the game:
Overkill: Mafia can double their hits one night. May not be used until Night 3.
Snakeskin: Cannot be the target of Private Eye role checks, Detective clue checks, or Mad Hatter attacks for the two days after being used. IE. If it was used on Night 1 it would be in effect from Day 2 to the end of Day 3. This means Mad Hatter bombs will fail on every person, not just mafia; and Detective clue checks and Private Eye role checks cannot be used at all.
Backlash: On the following day whenever a player uses a special ability it works as if the mafia used the ability on the player instead. Quick summary: clue checks do nothing, medic covers random mafia players, veterans still vote for their targets but random mafia will gain extra lives for each veteran in the game up to one extra life, private eyes are revealed to mafia or their vote check goes to show how many private eyes voted for the player, and mad hatters place a bomb on themselves. These happen if and only if the players in question use their abilities (except veteran) and no player will be notified of the change until the day after.
There are many roles not listed that may be used in future mafias, but for right now this is what we're working with.
I won't be in this one, but can I reserve a spot for a friend who promises to be active? I don't think we'll hit 60 anyway though lol Hopefully this game turns out balanced/runs smoothly! ^_^ gl all.
EDIT: YAY thanks! If he doesn't play, then I will.
Backlash: On the following day whenever a player uses a special ability it works as if the mafia used the ability on the player instead. Quick summary: clue checks do nothing, medic covers random mafia players, veterans vote for their targets but random mafia will gain extra lives, private eyes are revealed to mafia or their vote check goes to show how many private eyes voted for the player, and mad hatters place a bomb on themselves. These happen if and only if the players in question use their abilities and no player will be notified of the change until the day after.
Questions: what is the advantage for a private eye of picking the vote count instead of both abilities? Is there one? Also, what happens if they guess the role incorrectly?
Does overtime give veterans additional night lives? Or does it just allow them to either have 2 votes or 1 vote 1 extra night life?
Does backlash mean that private eyes will reveal themselves to the mafia regardless of who they are checking? How does this apply if the private eye is usng the rolecheck double ability?
On February 21 2009 12:07 Qatol wrote: Questions: what is the advantage for a private eye of picking the vote count instead of both abilities? Is there one?
There is no advantage.
On February 21 2009 12:07 Qatol wrote: Also, what happens if they guess the role incorrectly?
Er, what do you think will happen?
On February 21 2009 12:07 Qatol wrote: Does overtime give veterans additional night lives? Or does it just allow them to either have 2 votes or 1 vote 1 extra night life?
No, it gives them two votes or one vote + night life.
On February 21 2009 12:07 Qatol wrote: Does backlash mean that private eyes will reveal themselves to the mafia regardless of who they are checking? How does this apply if the private eye is usng the rolecheck double ability?
Yes and it applies the same way if they are using the double ability.
On February 21 2009 12:09 malongo wrote: wait... no mandatory vote? no inactives list?
No mandatory vote and no inactive list. If you're planning on going inactive tell me now and I'll remove you from the game.
I was mafia in game 2. But due to real life stuff I had to go inactive. Was a fun experience. I don't foresee anything similar happing to my IRL situation anytime soon.
Chuiui, don't you think Blog voting would be a lot simpler than thread voting?
CTRL+F would get confusing after the first few days I would think, plus you can make people only post once in blogs and only edit their original post, plus it would be easier to spot inactives.
On February 21 2009 13:05 fusionsdf wrote: sign me up
will the mad hatters suicide bomb also take out protecting medics?
Nope but the Mad Hatter will ignore the protecting medic only as long as he's suiciding.
On February 21 2009 14:36 LTT wrote: I'll play.
Mafia count says (This includes Suicide Bomber) but Bomber is not in the list of Roles for the game.
Fixed, thanks.
New players, even if you've played a mafia/werewolf game before please read the rules and roles because they may differ from what you are accustomed to.
Or really boring. You never know which way this can go. But from the looks of it this game does not appear to be anywhere near active. Yet. We shall see.
On February 25 2009 09:32 Incognito wrote: Or really boring. You never know which way this can go. But from the looks of it this game does not appear to be anywhere near active. Yet. We shall see.
You don't have me, ace, and caller spamming, so obviously thats a good start!
haha I wonder... I remember talks of the vets going undercover in a thread, to avoid them getting their shit rocked with day 1 faggotry. So this should be interesting, I'd say at least one of them is smurfing, decaf is really sick of getting killed by Coffee clues, Ace is tired of being Called out on Day 1 for the last 5 games, and Ver is pretty much established the same way.
On February 25 2009 13:20 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: haha I wonder... I remember talks of the vets going undercover in a thread, to avoid them getting their shit rocked with day 1 faggotry. So this should be interesting, I'd say at least one of them is smurfing, decaf is really sick of getting killed by Coffee clues, Ace is tired of being Called out on Day 1 for the last 5 games, and Ver is pretty much established the same way.
Yeah ace + mafia = rediculous last few games hes like auto rolecheck first day
Well if they are indeed smurfing I think that game might be interesting. If not then some people will have their chance to show up that they can also be key players.
My recomendation for next game is that everyone smurfs, then admins ban the accounts after the game and so on or something like that, it just removes the expectations from last games, like ace being fucked on the first day no matter what role he is (godfather rofl)
On February 25 2009 19:31 Scaramanga wrote: My recomendation for next game is that everyone smurfs, then admins ban the accounts after the game and so on or something like that, it just removes the expectations from last games, like ace being fucked on the first day no matter what role he is (godfather rofl)
what you guys think?
that just totally eliminates any behaviour analysis we could have done. we literally have to just blindly "guess" who is what instead of making educated guesses based on who is acting weird and stuff.
I think it'll be OK if some people do it (I'm sure we can spot ver's essay posts no matter what his ID is) but everyone doing it would eliminate an important aspect of the game.
On February 25 2009 19:31 Scaramanga wrote: My recomendation for next game is that everyone smurfs, then admins ban the accounts after the game and so on or something like that, it just removes the expectations from last games, like ace being fucked on the first day no matter what role he is (godfather rofl)
what you guys think?
that just totally eliminates any behaviour analysis we could have done. we literally have to just blindly "guess" who is what instead of making educated guesses based on who is acting weird and stuff.
I think it'll be OK if some people do it (I'm sure we can spot ver's essay posts no matter what his ID is) but everyone doing it would eliminate an important aspect of the game.
'
Imo it makes it more like a proper game mafia from scratch, it just eliminates whats happened in previous games so we dont get the same old dt's check ace etc etc. So yeah you could tell ver from his posting or he could change it around or he'll get butraped, im saying we should do this because well there arnt too many vets playing this time around because they all get raped early on, e.g. plexa, caller, camilito, bloodyc0bbler, ace, ver, and a few others arnt playing this time around or are smurfing already Btw behavior analysis isnt solid, clue analysis is much more solid and this type of game puts more empysis on it just my view point,
On February 25 2009 19:31 Scaramanga wrote: My recomendation for next game is that everyone smurfs, then admins ban the accounts after the game and so on or something like that, it just removes the expectations from last games, like ace being fucked on the first day no matter what role he is (godfather rofl)
what you guys think?
that just totally eliminates any behaviour analysis we could have done. we literally have to just blindly "guess" who is what instead of making educated guesses based on who is acting weird and stuff.
I think it'll be OK if some people do it (I'm sure we can spot ver's essay posts no matter what his ID is) but everyone doing it would eliminate an important aspect of the game.
'
Imo it makes it more like a proper game mafia from scratch, it just eliminates whats happened in previous games so we dont get the same old dt's check ace etc etc. So yeah you could tell ver from his posting or he could change it around or he'll get butraped, im saying we should do this because well there arnt too many vets playing this time around because they all get raped early on, e.g. plexa, caller, camilito, bloodyc0bbler, ace, ver, and a few others arnt playing this time around or are smurfing already Btw behavior analysis isnt solid, clue analysis is much more solid and this type of game puts more empysis on it just my view point,
It actually sounds like a nice idea, since ideally there should be no info from previous games.
On February 25 2009 19:31 Scaramanga wrote: My recomendation for next game is that everyone smurfs, then admins ban the accounts after the game and so on or something like that, it just removes the expectations from last games, like ace being fucked on the first day no matter what role he is (godfather rofl)
what you guys think?
that just totally eliminates any behaviour analysis we could have done. we literally have to just blindly "guess" who is what instead of making educated guesses based on who is acting weird and stuff.
I think it'll be OK if some people do it (I'm sure we can spot ver's essay posts no matter what his ID is) but everyone doing it would eliminate an important aspect of the game.
'
Imo it makes it more like a proper game mafia from scratch, it just eliminates whats happened in previous games so we dont get the same old dt's check ace etc etc. So yeah you could tell ver from his posting or he could change it around or he'll get butraped, im saying we should do this because well there arnt too many vets playing this time around because they all get raped early on, e.g. plexa, caller, camilito, bloodyc0bbler, ace, ver, and a few others arnt playing this time around or are smurfing already Btw behavior analysis isnt solid, clue analysis is much more solid and this type of game puts more empysis on it just my view point,
It actually sounds like a nice idea, since ideally there should be no info from previous games.
But during one of the games (the game where Bloodyc0bbler was running) the Mafia got a bunch of blues on the first day purely with behavior analysis. It is a very big part of Mafia (IMO at least) and it would be sad to see it disappear. Not to mention all the headaches it would cause staff to ban the flood of new accounts after a game. I say leave it voluntary (let Scara, Ace, camilito, ver, etc smurf if they feel they are in danger) but the people who would do it (the so called mafia "vets") would have to consider whether they would trade influence for staying under the radar. We'll see how it turns out in the next game.
On February 26 2009 03:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: hahaha, Mikey, if you were going to smurf you wouldn't have asked to reserve a slot first, you just woulda smurfed your way in right away
Actually he's my friend irl, and we've probably been on our respective accounts at the other guy's house so it probably shows up in the IP check from a while back (we both moved, so we're in separate cities now). And no, I probably would have set up an elaborate scheme to smurf my way in.
On February 25 2009 19:31 Scaramanga wrote: My recomendation for next game is that everyone smurfs, then admins ban the accounts after the game and so on or something like that, it just removes the expectations from last games, like ace being fucked on the first day no matter what role he is (godfather rofl)
what you guys think?
that just totally eliminates any behaviour analysis we could have done. we literally have to just blindly "guess" who is what instead of making educated guesses based on who is acting weird and stuff.
I think it'll be OK if some people do it (I'm sure we can spot ver's essay posts no matter what his ID is) but everyone doing it would eliminate an important aspect of the game.
'
Imo it makes it more like a proper game mafia from scratch, it just eliminates whats happened in previous games so we dont get the same old dt's check ace etc etc. So yeah you could tell ver from his posting or he could change it around or he'll get butraped, im saying we should do this because well there arnt too many vets playing this time around because they all get raped early on, e.g. plexa, caller, camilito, bloodyc0bbler, ace, ver, and a few others arnt playing this time around or are smurfing already Btw behavior analysis isnt solid, clue analysis is much more solid and this type of game puts more empysis on it just my view point,
It actually sounds like a nice idea, since ideally there should be no info from previous games.
But during one of the games (the game where Bloodyc0bbler was running) the Mafia got a bunch of blues on the first day purely with behavior analysis. It is a very big part of Mafia (IMO at least) and it would be sad to see it disappear. Not to mention all the headaches it would cause staff to ban the flood of new accounts after a game. I say leave it voluntary (let Scara, Ace, camilito, ver, etc smurf if they feel they are in danger) but the people who would do it (the so called mafia "vets") would have to consider whether they would trade influence for staying under the radar. We'll see how it turns out in the next game.
Thats not really a good thing, in mafia its better to have most of the analysis on clues rather than behavior, and i think its best that everyone smurfs then were all even stevens Anyway before this starts glhf all
On February 26 2009 03:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: hahaha, Mikey, if you were going to smurf you wouldn't have asked to reserve a slot first, you just woulda smurfed your way in right away
Actually he's my friend irl, and we've probably been on our respective accounts at the other guy's house so it probably shows up in the IP check from a while back (we both moved, so we're in separate cities now). And no, I probably would have set up an elaborate scheme to smurf my way in.
I sense a buttload of tomfoolery up in this statement!!
On February 27 2009 23:23 Naib wrote: I'm all giddy with anticipation, the PMs will be sent out today right? I guess it's still morning in the US though...
On February 28 2009 06:28 BWdero wrote: It's supposed to start today, but today is already almost over for me so in some timezones yeah I guess it was supposed to start yesterday.
Yeah I live in the US so its still the 27th here and will start in a few hours.
Btw, if I post times you can be sure they will be central time zone. GMT -6
Within the very special town of Liquidia the world would find its most specialized and varied experts of many fields. The town was well known for its low crime rate and innovation. The streets were clean, there was no poverty, and pollution was almost non-existent. But change was coming to Liquidia, and not the good kind!
Late one evening a police officer on a patrol noticed something quite suspicious. He noted several people entering what was thought of an abandoned building. Many of them bore a crest on their arm and a few looked like criminals previously incarcerated for crimes. He wasn't about to approach without backup though and radioed for a second officer to assist him. Once Officer BloodyC0bbler arrived they met up and began towards the building. They didn't even cross the street before Chuiu noticed someone on the side of the building. Thinking it was a lookout they moved to intercept him first. Right before they turned the corner of the building to talk to the man two people from behind shoved them forward. They stumbled and turned around to see a sharp looking man and a rather benign looking man. To the side stood the lookout and he moved over to the other two and handed them a couple bats. Chuiu and BloodyC0bbler pulled out their guns but before they could aim the two men had swung their bats knocking the guns far off to the side. Pulling out their batons they inched their way towards their guns to rearm themselves, it was obvious their opponents were swifter and they would have to try to get the upper hand with firearms again. But they didn't make it more than a foot before the two assailants disarmed them and knocked them to the ground with two hits of their bats.
Defenseless the officers were beaten viciously. Chuiu died first after taking one too many blows to the head. BloodyC0bbler cried out and told them they would eventually be caught but they shut up him by shoving a bat in his mouth and smashing the side of his head. Now with BloodyC0bbler dead the mafia picked up the bodies to get rid of them but off in the distance sirens were blaring. The building quickly emptied and all three on the side all ran off before several patrol cars showed up, apparently BloodyC0bbler had his radio on with him and the beatings were overheard.
In the morning a note was delivered to the Police HQ. It read
"We've killed two of your officers and if you don't find us and kill us first we will kill more. Lynch someone every day starting today. Use the experts of the town to find us before we kill you all. If you fail to lynch someone or try to evacuate the town we will set off a nuclear warhead hidden within the city killing everyone."
The mafia were playing a cruel game it seemed. That morning an announcement was made that all people would have to assist the police in gathering clues and voting on the suspected to be lynched every day. Change had come to Liquidia, and the whole world was watching to see how it would respond.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Welcome to a new round of mafia, I hope it will be as interesting or fun as previous rounds. Please vote on whomever you think is mafia. A vote count will be done tomorrow sometime and I will move to night the day after that.
ah alas a new mafia game. Just a small thought, the "sharp" man clue could link to blue_arrow. Arrows are sharp obviously. Weak clue imo, I just figured I would try to get the ball rolling a little bit. Besides that I don't see much else. I will reread it a few times later.
On February 28 2009 13:53 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: ah alas a new mafia game. Just a small thought, the "sharp" man clue could link to blue_arrow. Arrows are sharp obviously. Weak clue imo, I just figured I would try to get the ball rolling a little bit. Besides that I don't see much else. I will reread it a few times later.
Or maybe redtooth? Those are the only sharp names I see but hopefully the clues go deeper than names this time around. I was mafia in the last game I played and as soon as there was a bird clue everyone knew it was me because my name is a bird, i have a stork signature and im a huge flamboyantly excitable stork fan.
Ok we need to have some coordination on town abilities before we vote. Since we have 3 abilities and can only use them once every other night, I propose that we use as many as possible because these games tend to end around day 6 anyways.
Of our abilities, I would argue that we don't have the information to use a double lynch quite yet, but this would be a perfect time to use a sanctuary. Now I think that DTs are too weak a role to sanctuary, hatters want to die anyways, and private eyes will likely be using abilities right off the bat anyways (though they may decide to hold off immediately thanks to a potential backlash) and thus any sanctuary doesn't really help them much either because they will still just be killed before they can use their second ability if they are targeted.
This leaves Veteran and Paramedic. I argue that the most valuable sanctuary is paramedic because it effectively increases the night lives of the town in the long run. Paramedics are the town's most valuable resource. However, if anyone wants to make an argument about using veterans to establish themselves as 100% townies without worrying about taking hits, please be my guest.
I dunno what the proper strat should be for game one. I kind of want to kill a smurf because they annoy me but if they are mafia the clues will probably be obvious due to lack of material (especially if Chuiu wants to curb this in the future). Additionally, if someone has taken to smurfing they probably are a good player so if clues don't point to them we'll want them around. Mafia probably has a huge incentive to kill a bunch of smurfs that aren't in their group so we shouldn't waste time going after them except if a select few smurfs suspiciously survive after the Mafia kills a bunch of smurfs.
Can we use 1 power 3 times or each power only once? If we can use any powers up to 3 times then I think we might want to make sure medics live tonight.
Also every role should start posting, don't try to hide in silence. Its a behavior give away. Everyone be active and post a lot, it also makes the game more fun for everyone :D If blues hide in inactivity you will get sniped by a mafia behavioral analyst.
On February 28 2009 14:36 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Can we use 1 power 3 times or each power only once? If we can use any powers up to 3 times then I think we might want to make sure medics live tonight.
Also every role should start posting, don't try to hide in silence. Its a behavior give away. Everyone be active and post a lot, it also makes the game more fun for everyone :D If blues hide in inactivity you will get sniped by a mafia behavioral analyst.
Yeah and don't abstain every vote while being otherwise quiet. I easily identified a DT like that last game and killed them.
We can use Double Lynch twice and the other 2 once. I argue that Sanctuary and Double Lynch x2 are stronger than Overtime. The only useful double that we really get from Overtime is the medic doubling unless we use it late in the game (where double DT might be helpful).
Also, I noticed that the mafia cannot have used backlash today (someone please correct me if I am wrong here) because it triggers the day/night cycle AFTER they decide to use it, so day 1 Private Eye checks should be safe. And Private Eyes, if you decide to use the double ability, I would recommend the role that you guess is mafia for your guessing rolecheck (unless you are trying to confirm a roleclaim). Then you at least know if that person is townie or mafia except for the Don, which you have a 1 in 60 of hitting.
Some other clues that I noticed: The crest on the arms of several of the mafia The nuke reference (maybe a staff member clue?) Previous incarceration. Possibly this is connected to a user who has been banned a few times?
On February 28 2009 14:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I dunno what the proper strat should be for game one. I kind of want to kill a smurf because they annoy me but if they are mafia the clues will probably be obvious due to lack of material (especially if Chuiu wants to curb this in the future). Additionally, if someone has taken to smurfing they probably are a good player so if clues don't point to them we'll want them around. Mafia probably has a huge incentive to kill a bunch of smurfs that aren't in their group so we shouldn't waste time going after them except if a select few smurfs suspiciously survive after the Mafia kills a bunch of smurfs.
I'm confused. Are you arguing in favor of or against killing off a smurf?
In any case, I don't think we should lynch newly signed-up players just on the suspicion that they might be an experienced player masquerading under a pseudonym. (And not just because, as someone who's a newcomer to TL Mafia, I could easily be accused of smurfdom.) First of all, like you said, we wouldn't want to risk killing off a good player who simply doesn't want to be sniped right away before they get a chance to enjoy the game. Second, the inexperienced or unhelpful players are going to give themselves away pretty quickly, particularly in a game that moves this fast and requires this much detailed reading. Until then, it isn't entirely fair to assume that a low post count equates to low contributing ability right off the bat.
First off, we shouldn't do any clue analysis on the first day (especially clues that vague...). I don't know if RoL and Pyrr are probing but I suggest you lay off accusing. You'd be surprised how influential bandwagons are. I really don't want to die the first day just because you thought "sharp" equates to "redtooth" and "blue_arrow". That's just stupid.
As for "start posting", there's only a few people who have a significant enough background to be threatened by behavior analysis. Especially since the majority of the "power players" are either smurfing or not playing. We'll see how that turns out (Ace are you out there somewhere?).
Just guessing that a silent player is mafia is probably not a good idea. I think a lot of players in this game are new players (at least that is what I feel...) and we can expect some to be legitimately not participating due to forgetfulness or otherwise. Now if that silent person was previously an active poster... that changes things.
Also, using powers is different per role. The OP makes it sound like detective gets to use his ability nightly (confirmation please?) while the doctor cannot use his ability two nights in a row. This will lead to more strategical uses (staggering saves to keep a person alive?) but severely weakens the doctor and makes each save precious.
Though its only been an ~hour since the game started at the time of writing this, I actually expected much more participation even at this stage. Come on guys, let's keep this game alive, running, and fun! It's 1AM EST so when I wake up I hope to see a lot more posts!
theres no voting thread in blogs like in the last 2 games so i assume we vote here....
hoping more people will be active, hard to analyze behaviour if you're inactive
the 2 double lynches are definitely 2/3 town abilities we should use ASAP before town starts dying off quickly
and i totally agree with Qatol on the fact that Sanctuary > overtime
Overtime would only give us 1. +1 cluecheck for each detective 2. +1 life / vote for each vet 3. +1 protection for each medic
clearly the only real benefit from overtime would be the extra cluechecks; rarely do vets(or any townies) get hit twice or more early on, and +1 protection for medic would just be good for saving multiple good green clue analyzers
so i think it's quite clear that if we do use overtime it should be early (like now) so medics might be able to save a hit somehow
but im all for sanctuary cause it keeps our blues safe - i've never been fond of the clue analyzing we get from town (i've played the most recent 2 mafias) so unless some clue analyzers prove useful, greens are just fodder to tank hits for blues (i know this game we didnt want that because of inactivity)
I think the nuke could also be referring to someone who was recently banned? I just skimmed real fast and didn't notice any staff on the roster just now.
On February 28 2009 15:12 redtooth wrote: First off, we shouldn't do any clue analysis on the first day (especially clues that vague...). I don't know if RoL and Pyrr are probing but I suggest you lay off accusing. You'd be surprised how influential bandwagons are. I really don't want to die the first day just because you thought "sharp" equates to "redtooth" and "blue_arrow". That's just stupid.
Lol don't get so defensive nothing in my post was accusing and as I said I don't think clues would / should be based on names on day 1. I agree bandwagons are definitely influential though - so if you have a good idea of what to do on day one say so because I don't really know. I definitely wouldn't vote for blue arrow or you based on anything thus far and I think I explained why taking out a new account wouldn't be good so I guess we'll just have to hope something happens in the thread.
On February 28 2009 15:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think the nuke could also be referring to someone who was recently banned? I just skimmed real fast and didn't notice any staff on the roster just now.
I see Bockit and MasterOfChaos. However, both are blue and thus can't actually nuke anyone. It was just a thought
On February 28 2009 15:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think the nuke could also be referring to someone who was recently banned? I just skimmed real fast and didn't notice any staff on the roster just now.
I see Bockit and MasterOfChaos. However, both are blue and thus can't actually nuke anyone. It was just a thought
Dude the nuke could just be something chuiu threw in there to explain the plot hole of wait why doesnt the town run away so they don't die? Day 1 is usually red herrings if anything.
On February 28 2009 15:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think the nuke could also be referring to someone who was recently banned? I just skimmed real fast and didn't notice any staff on the roster just now.
I see Bockit and MasterOfChaos. However, both are blue and thus can't actually nuke anyone. It was just a thought
Dude the nuke could just be something chuiu threw in there to explain the plot hole of wait why doesnt the town run away so they don't die? Day 1 is usually red herrings if anything.
It's in the clue area, nonetheless. We should consider it.
I think we should concentrate on the way how Cobbler was killed. A bat for a gag? Sounds utterly painful.
Late one evening a police officer on a patrol noticed something quite suspicious. He noted several people entering what was thought of an abandoned building. Many of them bore a crest on their arm and a few looked like criminals previously incarcerated for crimes. He wasn't about to approach without backup though and radioed for a second officer to assist him. Once Officer BloodyC0bbler arrived they met up and began towards the building. They didn't even cross the street before Chuiu noticed someone on the side of the building. Thinking it was a lookout they moved to intercept him first. Right before they turned the corner of the building to talk to the man two people from behind shoved them forward. They stumbled and turned around to see a sharp looking man and a rather benign looking man. To the side stood the lookout and he moved over to the other two and handed them a couple bats. Chuiu and BloodyC0bbler pulled out their guns but before they could aim the two men had swung their bats knocking the guns far off to the side. Pulling out their batons they inched their way towards their guns to rearm themselves, it was obvious their opponents were swifter and they would have to try to get the upper hand with firearms again. But they didn't make it more than a foot before the two assailants disarmed them and knocked them to the ground with two hits of their bats.
Late one evening a police officer on a patrol noticed something quite suspicious. He noted several people entering what was thought of an abandoned building. Many of them bore a crest on their arm and a few looked like criminals previously incarcerated for crimes. He wasn't about to approach without backup though and radioed for a second officer to assist him. Once Officer BloodyC0bbler arrived they met up and began towards the building. They didn't even cross the street before Chuiu noticed someone on the side of the building. Thinking it was a lookout they moved to intercept him first. Right before they turned the corner of the building to talk to the man two people from behind shoved them forward. They stumbled and turned around to see a sharp looking man and a rather benign looking man. To the side stood the lookout and he moved over to the other two and handed them a couple bats. Chuiu and BloodyC0bbler pulled out their guns but before they could aim the two men had swung their bats knocking the guns far off to the side. Pulling out their batons they inched their way towards their guns to rearm themselves, it was obvious their opponents were swifter and they would have to try to get the upper hand with firearms again. But they didn't make it more than a foot before the two assailants disarmed them and knocked them to the ground with two hits of their bats.
biggest most obvious clue imo.
Yeah if someone knows how to check who has had temp bans or whatnot they should maybe make a report.
Late one evening a police officer on a patrol noticed something quite suspicious. He noted several people entering what was thought of an abandoned building. Many of them bore a crest on their arm and a few looked like criminals previously incarcerated for crimes. He wasn't about to approach without backup though and radioed for a second officer to assist him. Once Officer BloodyC0bbler arrived they met up and began towards the building. They didn't even cross the street before Chuiu noticed someone on the side of the building. Thinking it was a lookout they moved to intercept him first. Right before they turned the corner of the building to talk to the man two people from behind shoved them forward. They stumbled and turned around to see a sharp looking man and a rather benign looking man. To the side stood the lookout and he moved over to the other two and handed them a couple bats. Chuiu and BloodyC0bbler pulled out their guns but before they could aim the two men had swung their bats knocking the guns far off to the side. Pulling out their batons they inched their way towards their guns to rearm themselves, it was obvious their opponents were swifter and they would have to try to get the upper hand with firearms again. But they didn't make it more than a foot before the two assailants disarmed them and knocked them to the ground with two hits of their bats.
biggest most obvious clue imo.
Yeah if someone knows how to check who has had temp bans or whatnot they should maybe make a report.
I thought it meant Mafia in previous games, but I like your analysis.
Late one evening a police officer on a patrol noticed something quite suspicious. He noted several people entering what was thought of an abandoned building. Many of them bore a crest on their arm and a few looked like criminals previously incarcerated for crimes. He wasn't about to approach without backup though and radioed for a second officer to assist him. Once Officer BloodyC0bbler arrived they met up and began towards the building. They didn't even cross the street before Chuiu noticed someone on the side of the building. Thinking it was a lookout they moved to intercept him first. Right before they turned the corner of the building to talk to the man two people from behind shoved them forward. They stumbled and turned around to see a sharp looking man and a rather benign looking man. To the side stood the lookout and he moved over to the other two and handed them a couple bats. Chuiu and BloodyC0bbler pulled out their guns but before they could aim the two men had swung their bats knocking the guns far off to the side. Pulling out their batons they inched their way towards their guns to rearm themselves, it was obvious their opponents were swifter and they would have to try to get the upper hand with firearms again. But they didn't make it more than a foot before the two assailants disarmed them and knocked them to the ground with two hits of their bats.
biggest most obvious clue imo.
Yeah if someone knows how to check who has had temp bans or whatnot they should maybe make a report.
Hmm. Your point is good too but mafia either get hung or get away in games. The crest on the arms may refer to something like that... i dunno not sure what to think about the crests on the arms. I thought it meant Mafia in previous games, but I like your analysis.
Okay, I did a quick run through of all the players in the roster, and found a few users have been previously temp banned before.
Scaramanga: three times, 2 bans for attitude, one by request malongo: once, staff disrespect bumatlarge: once, catch phrase iNfuNdiBuLuM: once, posted info for mafia game
Few others have been temp banned as well, but by request.
On February 28 2009 16:01 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Lol what does by request mean? They want to be banned because they spend too much time posting?
Mhmm, I guess that would somehow help...even though they can still browse TL.net..
to be honest didn't help me one bit should've gotten ip banned or something although i dont think you can request that. anyway it's like 2am eastern, i will focus on this tomorrow, just happy it started before i went to sleep ^_^
Late one evening a police officer on a patrol noticed something quite suspicious. He noted several people entering what was thought of an abandoned building. Many of them bore a crest on their arm and a few looked like criminals previously incarcerated for crimes. He wasn't about to approach without backup though and radioed for a second officer to assist him. Once Officer BloodyC0bbler arrived they met up and began towards the building. They didn't even cross the street before Chuiu noticed someone on the side of the building. Thinking it was a lookout they moved to intercept him first. Right before they turned the corner of the building to talk to the man two people from behind shoved them forward. They stumbled and turned around to see a sharp looking man and a rather benign looking man. To the side stood the lookout and he moved over to the other two and handed them a couple bats. Chuiu and BloodyC0bbler pulled out their guns but before they could aim the two men had swung their bats knocking the guns far off to the side. Pulling out their batons they inched their way towards their guns to rearm themselves, it was obvious their opponents were swifter and they would have to try to get the upper hand with firearms again. But they didn't make it more than a foot before the two assailants disarmed them and knocked them to the ground with two hits of their bats.
biggest most obvious clue imo.
Yeah if someone knows how to check who has had temp bans or whatnot they should maybe make a report.
I thought it meant Mafia in previous games, but I like your analysis.
I completely disagree with you two, since from what ive read chuius clues point to 1 person at a time not mass people. (please correct me if im wrong). The closest i can think about this is RoL aka Monkeyspanker.
On February 28 2009 15:27 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I definitely wouldn't vote for blue arrow or you based on anything thus far
Well, if we can't find anything more solid to go on we're going to have to make some uninformed decisions at the start.
That said, I think the "benign man" clue is a lot more telling. This HAS to be inertinept. It's practically the definition of the damn words.
no way, the pandabearguy is benign
Pandabearguy is indeed pretty benign. Although if we lynch him we are guaranteed to lose the game...
wait why?
if it's a joke i don't get it lol
It's a joke. In the GOMtv games Tasteless always mentions that the player that kills the pandabearguy (neutral unit on some of the maps) ends up losing.
On February 28 2009 15:26 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I think the nuke could also be referring to someone who was recently banned? I just skimmed real fast and didn't notice any staff on the roster just now.
I see Bockit and MasterOfChaos. However, both are blue and thus can't actually nuke anyone. It was just a thought
Dude the nuke could just be something chuiu threw in there to explain the plot hole of wait why doesnt the town run away so they don't die? Day 1 is usually red herrings if anything.
While this is true, I'm trying to give the DTs something to clue check, even if it is probably a red herring. Trust me, it is useful for the DTs to have other people at least trying to do clue analysis so they can pick the analysis that they think is the strongest to verify.
The crests and criminals are pretty significant. I'm too tired/lazy to check but I'd presume something in someone's profile may link to this. Could someone make a list of profiles?
The sharp looking man may have a reference to a sword. Fortunately for us, MidnightGladius is not in this game. Unfortunately, it could be any number of people.
The lookout who gives those men bats is also significant. The word bat could mean a baseball bat, or quite literally the bat flying thing. Vampire reference most likely.
There's other things but I'm too blind to see them. Again, I encourage everybody to participate, even and especially townies. The more townies speak up, the less inactives the mafia can hide amongst, and the more people speaking, the more blues can cover up their actions. There's no point in hiding to stay alive if everybody else that could help you is dead. So again, I urge all townies to do what I do, and speak!
On February 28 2009 15:27 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I definitely wouldn't vote for blue arrow or you based on anything thus far
Well, if we can't find anything more solid to go on we're going to have to make some uninformed decisions at the start.
That said, I think the "benign man" clue is a lot more telling. This HAS to be inertinept. It's practically the definition of the damn words.
no way, the pandabearguy is benign
Pandabearguy is indeed pretty benign. Although if we lynch him we are guaranteed to lose the game...
wait why?
if it's a joke i don't get it lol
It's a joke. In the GOMtv games Tasteless always mentions that the player that kills the pandabearguy (neutral unit on some of the maps) ends up losing.
oh! haha, this is what i get for not keeping up with my required sc viewing
also: i like the "inertinept" :: "benign man" connection. but not enough to vote on it. day 1 lynch is an unkind mistress.
On February 28 2009 15:11 dreamflower wrote: Until then, it isn't entirely fair to assume that a low post count equates to low contributing ability right off the bat.
On February 28 2009 Qatol wrote: Now I think that DTs are too weak a role to sanctuary, hatters want to die anyways, and private eyes will likely be using abilities right off the bat
In the morning a note was delivered to the Police HQ. It read
"We've killed two of your officers and if you don't find us and kill us first we will kill more. Lynch someone every day starting today. Use the experts of the town to find us before we kill you all. If you fail to lynch someone or try to evacuate the town we will set off a nuclear warhead hidden within the city killing everyone."
The mafia were playing a cruel game it seemed. That morning an announcement was made that all people would have to assist the police in gathering clues and voting on the suspected to be lynched every day. Change had come to Liquidia, and the whole world was watching to see how it would respond.
So, the plot that mafia has... is essentially an ultimatum for Liquidia. They don't want to lynch anyone for fear of messing up. So the best way to avoid that is to evacuate Liquidia, but then there is the bomb threat.
Basically, this reminds me somewhat of The Dark Knight, where the Joker essentially gives an ultimatum to the two ferry ships. Blow the other ship up (representing a lynch) or if neither do anything (evacuating the town), the Joker blows both ships up.
Also, the mafia note mentions that they will kill someone each day (also like the Dark Knight movie) when Joker posts clues about who he is going to target next and warns the real Batman to reveal his identity otherwise people will die.
We may want to look for Batman and Dark Knight clues.
Another possibility is the nuclear warhead in the city may represent the catastrophe in Watchmen. For those who have not read the comic book essentially what ends up happening is the Watchmen (good guys) try to find out who (bad guys) are picking off former Watchmen. Eventually, the climax of the story is when the bad guys set off a massive explosion in NYC, killing everyone.
So we may also want to look for Watchmen clues in profiles as well.
On February 28 2009 15:12 redtooth wrote: Yes it's finally started!
First off, we shouldn't do any clue analysis on the first day (especially clues that vague...). I don't know if RoL and Pyrr are probing but I suggest you lay off accusing. You'd be surprised how influential bandwagons are. I really don't want to die the first day just because you thought "sharp" equates to "redtooth" and "blue_arrow". That's just stupid.
As for "start posting", there's only a few people who have a significant enough background to be threatened by behavior analysis. Especially since the majority of the "power players" are either smurfing or not playing. We'll see how that turns out (Ace are you out there somewhere?).
Just guessing that a silent player is mafia is probably not a good idea. I think a lot of players in this game are new players (at least that is what I feel...) and we can expect some to be legitimately not participating due to forgetfulness or otherwise. Now if that silent person was previously an active poster... that changes things.
Also, using powers is different per role. The OP makes it sound like detective gets to use his ability nightly (confirmation please?) while the doctor cannot use his ability two nights in a row. This will lead to more strategical uses (staggering saves to keep a person alive?) but severely weakens the doctor and makes each save precious.
Though its only been an ~hour since the game started at the time of writing this, I actually expected much more participation even at this stage. Come on guys, let's keep this game alive, running, and fun! It's 1AM EST so when I wake up I hope to see a lot more posts!
Lynching silent players is a good thing, if there are more silent players then its easier for mafia to just not post anything and look inactive. So guys post as much as you can even if it is just to say im here
Edit: Guys btw dont edit your posts bar to add content to it, you cant change anything you decide to get post or you get kicked from the game, and yes i relised i edited my post to say this ^^
On February 28 2009 15:27 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I definitely wouldn't vote for blue arrow or you based on anything thus far
Well, if we can't find anything more solid to go on we're going to have to make some uninformed decisions at the start.
That said, I think the "benign man" clue is a lot more telling. This HAS to be inertinept. It's practically the definition of the damn words.
no way, the pandabearguy is benign
Ok, he's mafia too. You're also mafia for disagreeing with me.
Hrmm.... either:
1) Rice is mafia, defending another mafia member being accused. In this case, Inertinept
2) Rice is town, just adamant about pandabearguy being a potential mafia member and I am looking into this too much.
I say this because this is exactly what happened in the game when Ace (who was GF) got accused of being mafia by the Village Idiot (BC?) and... malongo? AttackZerg? or some other mafia immediately came to Ace's defense.
Im gonna play this game in random mode (aka instinctively selecting my vote), since last game (callers game) i proved scientifically my absolute inability to do clue analisis. So expect me to join the mob most of the time
^^ Also, to add to my above post, Bockit also has a nuclear/nukes reference when his profile quotes "America turtled on island and tech to nukes. Also, some drop harass. - Jyvblamo, On WWII"
I think if the nuclear warhead is a clue and if it can point to anyone, I'd go with MasterOfChaos more so than Bockit.
Oh, morning everyone (well, it's 11:30 but I stayed up too long).
I guess the european players like me are just getting around to read stuff up. I've only played one game of mafia so far (that one which went on for months ), and it clearly showed that my clue analysis is a bit weak
I definitely don't want to bandwagon anything, or anyone, but guys - understand that we have to pick someone for day 1. I remember how random it was in our game (poor iNc Mad Hatter just because Ace didn't like something about him ). I'm terribly sorry for whoever it may be, but we simply have to brainstorm ideas and go with the most plausible one - until we get more clues.
So far, I don't like Rice's behavior, but I'm inclined to think he may just be a random townie a bit overzealous with his ideas, pushing it (notice how early he posted "pandabearguy is mafia").
Thus, to me the most plausible idea seems to be inertinept = benign man.
But continue posting more ideas! Especially about what town ability to use.
Overtime has the huge benefit that mafia cannot make that backfire on us (today that is), but for example it's strength is mitigated by the lack of info for clue-checkers. I mean, they could go randomly at best with all those checks.
Sanctuary's good, and I agree perhaps we should use it for medics (and pray that they protect the right targets ). Reasons are posted above, I won't reiterate it for you to have more stuff to read, I already wrote a wall of text I feel
Edit: because I randomly clicked "add image" inbetween two paragraphs, lol
Sigh, and just when I almost finish finding nuclear references in user profiles.... Ra.Xor.2 has a quote saying "Nuclear Launch Detected - South Korea on hearing that SC2 sucks" in his profile.
Obviously, this doesn't mean that the nuclear warhead clue is not a clue because one of the 3 may still be mafia. But it'd be nice if we kept an eye on the 3 people that I mentioned. I'd rank strength of clues for the three in this order assuming that the nuke is a clue:
On February 28 2009 19:42 JL13 wrote: ^^ Also, to add to my above post, Bockit also has a nuclear/nukes reference when his profile quotes "America turtled on island and tech to nukes. Also, some drop harass. - Jyvblamo, On WWII"
I think if the nuclear warhead is a clue and if it can point to anyone, I'd go with MasterOfChaos more so than Bockit.
Clue analysis is always good but please dont post people as mafia off weak clues esp off day 1, we understand what your saying just a little pet peeve
Voting is closed tomorrow already (which means today, I guess, it's "tomorrow" already in the US too, even if it's dawntime), so we should start voting here (as there will be no separate blogs / threads for it).
On February 28 2009 19:42 JL13 wrote: ^^ Also, to add to my above post, Bockit also has a nuclear/nukes reference when his profile quotes "America turtled on island and tech to nukes. Also, some drop harass. - Jyvblamo, On WWII"
I think if the nuclear warhead is a clue and if it can point to anyone, I'd go with MasterOfChaos more so than Bockit.
Clue analysis is always good but please dont post people as mafia off weak clues esp off day 1, we understand what your saying just a little pet peeve
Okay, no problem. I guess by posting up names, I make people more inclined to look only at the names I posted. At the same time though, by posting up names, it draws attention to those people which can also benefit. Regardless, since you let me know of that, I'll be sure to heed your words in the future.
First of all I would like to encourage everyone to be active. Inactivity can be a great tool for the mafia to use. Secondly, clues. Now I'm not great at analyzing those things but hey it's worth a shot.
Qualities mafia posses: they bare a mark on their arm, several look like criminals previously incarcerated.
In this day we are introduced to 3 mafia. A man who looks sharp, a man who looks benign and a third one on lookout.
Lookout: this is the first mafia we see, this mafia has not been described yet. It was this mafia that handed the bats to the other two. Take note that he never actually engages in violence himself, instead preferring to let the other two do the work.
Sharp: This mafia looks sharp. No further details about him given. Sharpness may be literal or referring to a cleverness of some sort.
Benign: this man looks benign. Also no further detail.
Manner of deaths: Chuiu dies from too many blows to the head. Bloody died from having a bat shoved in his mouth and then having the side of his head smashed. Possibly hinting that his assailant is particularly cruel or brutal.
If town doesn't lynch someone once a day mafia nuke the town. Playing a cruel game. The mafia like to play games. Nuke may be a clue in itself.
My suspects: inertinept as benign, it is pretty much the definition of the words as someone said. I feel this is a very strong clue pointing at him. Especially on the first day where we don't have much else.
on our use of abilities. We should use them as often as possible. The best one to use today seems to be sanctuary or overtime. Since we really don't have enough clues to call a double lynch. I'm leaning towards overtime myself. Since it give the medics a lot of saving power, minimizing deaths this night.(can a medic protect himself?) It also allows us to save sanctuary for later in the game, when mafia have a better idea of who the blues are.
I think we're putting a little too much emphasis on the nuke reference, I definitely agree that inert-inept fits the benign clue, and it's the strongest lead we have. Will there be a separate voting topic?
Based on the ruleset, here are some optimal plays that I've come up with.
Private Eyes: (PE) 1.) Don't use your rolecheck ability. Vote checks are far stronger and get more powerful as the game goes on. Rolechecks become far less useful. Attempting to use both isn't worth the risk as the only time you should use the rolecheck-guess is if you know the person's role 100%. If you already know, why use the rolecheck at all? (This system is just silly, Chuiu... )
2.) Announce in the thread before you use your Vote Check. The worst thing that can happen is that we have multiple Private Eyes check the same vote. Once you use your ability, you are basically a green so it doesn't matter if you reveal your role. Related, check the thread before you make your vote check to ensure you aren't duplicating a check.
3.) Immediately post the Vote Check results to the thread. As mentioned in 2, once used you are green. Your death would only help the town at that point as it means that a paramedic or detective is not dying!
Sidenotes: Following the above means that mafia can pretend to be PEs and "claim" a vote, keeping our PEs from checking and then spreading false information. This is possible, but a dumb trade as the information can be ignored once the false calimer is revealed and it leads to more scrutiny of the claimer.
Detectives: (DE) 1.) Use your abilities every day. Duh.
2.) Pay special attention to anyone who claims to be a PE.
Paramedics: 1.) After you stop a hit, always let your target know about it via PM. They are 100% confirmed townies as there are no vigilantes in this game and Mafia cannot send a hit against themselves.
Veteran: 1.) The only time you should use your extra vote is if the voting is close. Nght lives are far more important to you.
General: If you are protected from a hit, DO NOT reveal your role to a medic who PMs you until some time has elapsed. As L showed in game 2, fake roleclaiming as a medic is a powerful tool as the Mafia know who they tried to hit and survived. The chances of them risking it are low as there are veterans in this game, but give it enough time for the "real" medic to pm you.
****EVERYONE VOTE**** PEs cannot check non-voters or abstains (Correct me if I am wrong here Chuiu) so if there are lots of inactive townie voters, then the mafia can simply not vote. If all the townies vote, the mafia is forced to as well lest they be picked apart by vote checks.
On February 28 2009 20:50 LTT wrote: Based on the ruleset, here are some optimal plays that I've come up with.
Private Eyes: (PE) 1.) Don't use your rolecheck ability. Vote checks are far stronger and get more powerful as the game goes on. Rolechecks become far less useful. Attempting to use both isn't worth the risk as the only time you should use the rolecheck-guess is if you know the person's role 100%. If you already know, why use the rolecheck at all? (This system is just silly, Chuiu... )
2.) Announce in the thread before you use your Vote Check. The worst thing that can happen is that we have multiple Private Eyes check the same vote. Once you use your ability, you are basically a green so it doesn't matter if you reveal your role. Related, check the thread before you make your vote check to ensure you aren't duplicating a check.
3.) Immediately post the Vote Check results to the thread. As mentioned in 2, once used you are green. Your death would only help the town at that point as it means that a paramedic or detective is not dying!
Sidenotes: Following the above means that mafia can pretend to be PEs and "claim" a vote, keeping our PEs from checking and then spreading false information. This is possible, but a dumb trade as the information can be ignored once the false calimer is revealed and it leads to more scrutiny of the claimer.
Detectives: (DE) 1.) Use your abilities every day. Duh.
2.) Pay special attention to anyone who claims to be a PE.
Paramedics: 1.) After you stop a hit, always let your target know about it via PM. They are 100% confirmed townies as there are no vigilantes in this game and Mafia cannot send a hit against themselves.
Veteran: 1.) The only time you should use your extra vote is if the voting is close. Nght lives are far more important to you.
General: If you are protected from a hit, DO NOT reveal your role to a medic who PMs you until some time has elapsed. As L showed in game 2, fake roleclaiming as a medic is a powerful tool as the Mafia know who they tried to hit and survived. The chances of them risking it are low as there are veterans in this game, but give it enough time for the "real" medic to pm you.
****EVERYONE VOTE**** PEs cannot check non-voters or abstains (Correct me if I am wrong here Chuiu) so if there are lots of inactive townie voters, then the mafia can simply not vote. If all the townies vote, the mafia is forced to as well lest they be picked apart by vote checks.
Edit: Clarity.
Private eye.
Hmm, seems like a good idea but as you said there is nothing stopping mafia from faking a check. How about this, anyone that presents a vote check is lynched as soon as possible to confirm their legitimacy. Should stop mafia from faking.
On February 28 2009 20:50 LTT wrote: Based on the ruleset, here are some optimal plays that I've come up with.
Private Eyes: (PE) 1.) Don't use your rolecheck ability. Vote checks are far stronger and get more powerful as the game goes on. Rolechecks become far less useful. Attempting to use both isn't worth the risk as the only time you should use the rolecheck-guess is if you know the person's role 100%. If you already know, why use the rolecheck at all? (This system is just silly, Chuiu... )
2.) Announce in the thread before you use your Vote Check. The worst thing that can happen is that we have multiple Private Eyes check the same vote. Once you use your ability, you are basically a green so it doesn't matter if you reveal your role. Related, check the thread before you make your vote check to ensure you aren't duplicating a check.
3.) Immediately post the Vote Check results to the thread. As mentioned in 2, once used you are green. Your death would only help the town at that point as it means that a paramedic or detective is not dying!
Sidenotes: Following the above means that mafia can pretend to be PEs and "claim" a vote, keeping our PEs from checking and then spreading false information. This is possible, but a dumb trade as the information can be ignored once the false calimer is revealed and it leads to more scrutiny of the claimer.
Detectives: (DE) 1.) Use your abilities every day. Duh.
2.) Pay special attention to anyone who claims to be a PE.
Paramedics: 1.) After you stop a hit, always let your target know about it via PM. They are 100% confirmed townies as there are no vigilantes in this game and Mafia cannot send a hit against themselves.
Veteran: 1.) The only time you should use your extra vote is if the voting is close. Nght lives are far more important to you.
General: If you are protected from a hit, DO NOT reveal your role to a medic who PMs you until some time has elapsed. As L showed in game 2, fake roleclaiming as a medic is a powerful tool as the Mafia know who they tried to hit and survived. The chances of them risking it are low as there are veterans in this game, but give it enough time for the "real" medic to pm you.
****EVERYONE VOTE**** PEs cannot check non-voters or abstains (Correct me if I am wrong here Chuiu) so if there are lots of inactive townie voters, then the mafia can simply not vote. If all the townies vote, the mafia is forced to as well lest they be picked apart by vote checks.
Edit: Clarity.
Private eye.
Hmm, seems like a good idea but as you said there is nothing stopping mafia from faking a check. How about this, anyone that presents a vote check is lynched as soon as possible to confirm their legitimacy. Should stop mafia from faking.
Detectives.
Agreed.
Paramedics.
Agreed.
Veterans.
Agreed.
I thought about that but it really isn't worth it. We have very limited killing power this game as there are no vigilantes. We can lynch them if we have no other targets, but we are almost always going to have a better target. They are giving us a massive amount of information when they give a vote check. If they lie, they've handed themselves to us. As soon as the information contradicts what they've given us, it's a free kill. This will get more powerful as the game goes on, especially if that mafia had difficult clues.
We just need to tie each Vote check to the name of the person who gives it and constantly monitor how reliable the information is. Don't reveal your role based on this information until the vote check information is confirmed. (IE if someone claims that 0 mafia voted for a person, don't send your role to all of those voters until the claimer is confirmed to be clean)
One thing we cannot do is try to chain PEs via rolechecks after the first vote check. I tried working something out using this before my first post but it fails horribly to Mafia fake roleclaims. If Mafia fakes the first vote check, we lose every single vote check to failed guessed rolechecks! DO NOT ROLECHECK.
On February 28 2009 20:50 LTT wrote: Based on the ruleset, here are some optimal plays that I've come up with.
Private Eyes: (PE) 1.) Don't use your rolecheck ability. Vote checks are far stronger and get more powerful as the game goes on. Rolechecks become far less useful. Attempting to use both isn't worth the risk as the only time you should use the rolecheck-guess is if you know the person's role 100%. If you already know, why use the rolecheck at all? (This system is just silly, Chuiu... )
2.) Announce in the thread before you use your Vote Check. The worst thing that can happen is that we have multiple Private Eyes check the same vote. Once you use your ability, you are basically a green so it doesn't matter if you reveal your role. Related, check the thread before you make your vote check to ensure you aren't duplicating a check.
3.) Immediately post the Vote Check results to the thread. As mentioned in 2, once used you are green. Your death would only help the town at that point as it means that a paramedic or detective is not dying!
Sidenotes: Following the above means that mafia can pretend to be PEs and "claim" a vote, keeping our PEs from checking and then spreading false information. This is possible, but a dumb trade as the information can be ignored once the false calimer is revealed and it leads to more scrutiny of the claimer.
Detectives: (DE) 1.) Use your abilities every day. Duh.
2.) Pay special attention to anyone who claims to be a PE.
Paramedics: 1.) After you stop a hit, always let your target know about it via PM. They are 100% confirmed townies as there are no vigilantes in this game and Mafia cannot send a hit against themselves.
Veteran: 1.) The only time you should use your extra vote is if the voting is close. Nght lives are far more important to you.
General: If you are protected from a hit, DO NOT reveal your role to a medic who PMs you until some time has elapsed. As L showed in game 2, fake roleclaiming as a medic is a powerful tool as the Mafia know who they tried to hit and survived. The chances of them risking it are low as there are veterans in this game, but give it enough time for the "real" medic to pm you.
****EVERYONE VOTE**** PEs cannot check non-voters or abstains (Correct me if I am wrong here Chuiu) so if there are lots of inactive townie voters, then the mafia can simply not vote. If all the townies vote, the mafia is forced to as well lest they be picked apart by vote checks.
Edit: Clarity.
Private eye.
Hmm, seems like a good idea but as you said there is nothing stopping mafia from faking a check. How about this, anyone that presents a vote check is lynched as soon as possible to confirm their legitimacy. Should stop mafia from faking.
Detectives.
Agreed.
Paramedics.
Agreed.
Veterans.
Agreed.
I thought about that but it really isn't worth it. We have very limited killing power this game as there are no vigilantes. We can lynch them if we have no other targets, but we are almost always going to have a better target. They are giving us a massive amount of information when they give a vote check. If they lie, they've handed themselves to us. As soon as the information contradicts what they've given us, it's a free kill. This will get more powerful as the game goes on, especially if that mafia had difficult clues.
We just need to tie each Vote check to the name of the person who gives it and constantly monitor how reliable the information is. Don't reveal your role based on this information until the vote check information is confirmed. (IE if someone claims that 0 mafia voted for a person, don't send your role to all of those voters until the claimer is confirmed to be clean)
One thing we cannot do is try to chain PEs via rolechecks after the first vote check. I tried working something out using this before my first post but it fails horribly to Mafia fake roleclaims. If Mafia fakes the first vote check, we lose every single vote check to failed guessed rolechecks! DO NOT ROLECHECK.
Fair enough.
Now about which abilities to use. First of all, should we use one right now?
Double lynch is obviously not a good idea this early in the game so our choices are between overpower and sanctuary. I would like to save sanctuary for later when mafia have a better idea of who the blues are. That way we can be sure it is put to better use then if we were to use it now, when mafia are largely in the dark on who the blues are. The later we use overtime the less of an effect it will have. Since more and more blues will have died the later in the game. Using overtime now would minimize our losses on this first day since all medics could then cover two people. Then again being able to have a detective check two people for clues could prove crucial in later stages.
So if we use an ability today it should be overtime. However since all three abilities could prove gamechanging on later days I am reluctant to use one right now.
We don't know who to protect so Sanctuary's pretty useless. Won't overtime be in effect on Night 1? We vote during the day, so surely the following night is Night 1? Maybe Chuiu can clarify this
On February 28 2009 22:47 ahswtini wrote: We don't know who to protect so Sanctuary's pretty useless. Won't overtime be in effect on Night 1? We vote during the day, so surely the following night is Night 1? Maybe Chuiu can clarify this
i think sanctuary can be used leading up to 'tonight', but since noone really has a clue about how the special roles are dispersed, the chance of mafia targeting a group of blues or targeting a blue would just be by chance(to my understanding, correct me if i'm wrong)
If you want, we can easily centralize the town behind a Veteran.
We need a Vet to publically come out and declare that he is a Veteran and say "I am going to use my extra vote on x", whomever that may be. No other veterans should use this ability once someone makes this declaration This ability will show up in Chuiu's vote list (and probably even the prevote) so we can confirm the Veteran as legit on Day 1.
From there, everyone needs to PM the veteran their roles. The Veteran can then coordinate the PEs and Detectives, and coordinate the Medics to keep himself alive. The mafia can't bomb him! He needs to be careful regarding coordinating the medics since they can't use their powers consecutively.
He can then publically disclose how many of each role was claimed, and who did not claim a role. Together with vote checks, this will become a vise that the mafia can't do much about.
The problem with that is a veteran has 1 extra live. Meaning it would take 4 medics to keep him safe from mafia stacking all 5 kills on him. Since the medics can't use their abilities consecutively this means that at full mafia kill power it would take a minimum of 8 medics to keep this veteran alive. I doubt there are that much medics. And I don't see any reason why mafia wouldn't stack all their kills on a figure that poses such a threat.
It's a good plan to enact when mafia kill power has been reduced but it won't work this early in the game.
Also dont forget that mafia does have overkill at night three and we dont know how many mafia there are, Imo the plan would work if we had every single vet role claim, first night we use sanctuary on the vets, second night use overtime so vets get double life, then after that medics protect a different vet each night, so @BWdero yeah they can take one vet, but they cant take three
On February 28 2009 23:12 Scaramanga wrote: Also dont forget that mafia does have overkill at night three and we dont know how many mafia there are, Imo the plan would work if we had every single vet role claim, first night we use sanctuary on the vets, second night use overtime so vets get double life, then after that medics protect a different vet each night, so @BWdero yeah they can take one vet, but they cant take three
edit: spelling
I just wrote a long writeup in response to the others, but this is a better idea. Each Vet makes the claim and we send our roles to all of them.
There is something though, we can't use abilities 2 consecutive days. So if we sanctuary Day 1, we can't overtime day 2, and it wouldn't even take effect until day 3. (Chuiu, can we vote for abilities on 2 consecutive days if the abilities would not take effect on consecutive days?)
On February 28 2009 23:12 Scaramanga wrote: Also dont forget that mafia does have overkill at night three and we dont know how many mafia there are, Imo the plan would work if we had every single vet role claim, first night we use sanctuary on the vets, second night use overtime so vets get double life, then after that medics protect a different vet each night, so @BWdero yeah they can take one vet, but they cant take three
edit: spelling
That doesn't work because overtime doesn't take effect until the day/night cycle after we use it. So mafia have a night before it takes affect in which they can backlash and kill all the vets no prob.
Though it is interesting that the only way mafia seem to able to counter this plan is by using their don power. Meaning they can't use it for anything else or the vet plan works. Is town informed of when mafia use their don power?
On February 28 2009 23:12 Scaramanga wrote: Also dont forget that mafia does have overkill at night three and we dont know how many mafia there are, Imo the plan would work if we had every single vet role claim, first night we use sanctuary on the vets, second night use overtime so vets get double life, then after that medics protect a different vet each night, so @BWdero yeah they can take one vet, but they cant take three
edit: spelling
That doesn't work because overtime doesn't take effect until the day/night cycle after we use it. So mafia have a night before it takes affect in which they can backlash and kill all the vets no prob.
Though it is interesting that the only way mafia seem to able to counter this plan is by using their don power. Meaning they can't use it for anything else or the vet plan works. Is town informed of when mafia use their don power?
Then use overtime and sanc on night 1, we can plan it out to have full protection from our roles for a while
1.) One vet roleclaims and uses their ability. 2.) Once confirmed via Chuiu's vote count, everyone PMs him their roles. 3.) Other Vets can confirm to him that they are vets by using their voting power. We now have all veterans confirmed but only 1 public. 4.) They coordinate medic protection. 5.) If the original vet dies, the other vets can use a mouthpiece. One vet should use a person who PMed the role of townie to speak in the thread. Do not reveal anything to that townie. If the Vet dies, the other vets immediately know that the townie was mafia.
On February 28 2009 23:12 Scaramanga wrote: Also dont forget that mafia does have overkill at night three and we dont know how many mafia there are, Imo the plan would work if we had every single vet role claim, first night we use sanctuary on the vets, second night use overtime so vets get double life, then after that medics protect a different vet each night, so @BWdero yeah they can take one vet, but they cant take three
edit: spelling
That doesn't work because overtime doesn't take effect until the day/night cycle after we use it. So mafia have a night before it takes affect in which they can backlash and kill all the vets no prob.
Though it is interesting that the only way mafia seem to able to counter this plan is by using their don power. Meaning they can't use it for anything else or the vet plan works. Is town informed of when mafia use their don power?
Then use overtime and sanc on night 1, we can plan it out to have full protection from our roles for a while
On February 28 2009 23:49 LTT wrote: How about this:
1.) One vet roleclaims and uses their ability. 2.) Once confirmed via Chuiu's vote count, everyone PMs him their roles. 3.) Other Vets can confirm to him that they are vets by using their voting power. We now have all veterans confirmed but only 1 public. 4.) They coordinate medic protection. 5.) If the original vet dies, the other vets can use a mouthpiece. One vet should use a person who PMed the role of townie to speak in the thread. Do not reveal anything to that townie. If the Vet dies, the other vets immediately know that the townie was mafia.
Edit: Clarity
Nice plan but how can the unknown vets prove themselves to the mouthpiece once the public vet dies? A mafia could easily fake being a vet to an innocent townie and use him as a mouthpiece to spread false information.
A better idea would be that after the public vet dies have one of the unknown vets step forward and prove themselves via voting power.
On February 28 2009 23:49 LTT wrote: How about this:
1.) One vet roleclaims and uses their ability. 2.) Once confirmed via Chuiu's vote count, everyone PMs him their roles. 3.) Other Vets can confirm to him that they are vets by using their voting power. We now have all veterans confirmed but only 1 public. 4.) They coordinate medic protection. 5.) If the original vet dies, the other vets can use a mouthpiece. One vet should use a person who PMed the role of townie to speak in the thread. Do not reveal anything to that townie. If the Vet dies, the other vets immediately know that the townie was mafia.
Edit: Clarity
Nice plan but how can the unknown vets prove themselves to the mouthpiece once the public vet dies? A mafia could easily fake being a vet to an innocent townie and use him as a mouthpiece to spread false information.
A better idea would be that after the public vet dies have one of the unknown vets step forward and prove themselves via voting power.
If multiple mouthpieces pop up, we can just have each confirm to the mouthpiece via pm. Whichever one can't is outed by the duped townie and we have a free mafia.
Edit: It would actually be better to do it publically. Just have each Vet use their power to vote for their mouthpiece. The nonconfirmed vet is then outed by the duped mouthpiece.
If we do it in private, it doesn't solve the case of Mafia Vet with Mafia Mouthpiece.
On February 28 2009 23:49 LTT wrote: How about this:
1.) One vet roleclaims and uses their ability. 2.) Once confirmed via Chuiu's vote count, everyone PMs him their roles. 3.) Other Vets can confirm to him that they are vets by using their voting power. We now have all veterans confirmed but only 1 public. 4.) They coordinate medic protection. 5.) If the original vet dies, the other vets can use a mouthpiece. One vet should use a person who PMed the role of townie to speak in the thread. Do not reveal anything to that townie. If the Vet dies, the other vets immediately know that the townie was mafia.
Edit: Clarity
Nice plan but how can the unknown vets prove themselves to the mouthpiece once the public vet dies? A mafia could easily fake being a vet to an innocent townie and use him as a mouthpiece to spread false information.
A better idea would be that after the public vet dies have one of the unknown vets step forward and prove themselves via voting power.
If multiple mouthpieces pop up, we can just have each confirm to the mouthpiece via pm. Whichever one can't is outed by the duped townie and we have a free mafia.
Edit: It would actually be better to do it publically. Just have each Vet use their power to vote for their mouthpiece. The nonconfirmed vet is then outed by the duped mouthpiece.
If we do it in private, it doesn't solve the case of Mafia Vet with Mafia Mouthpiece.
Ah right, vets prove themselves to the mouthpiece by using their voting power. Someone claiming to be a vet but can't prove it by predicting which towny will suddenly get a veteran vote is obviously faking.
Seems like a pretty good idea. Now all we have to decide is what the appropriate time is to implement this plan. (Unless someone else can find a flaw that we missed of course)
We need to implement it Day 1 while we are safe from Backlash. See if you can poke any more holes, otherwise, we need a Vet to step up. Preferably before Chuiu does his first Vote count tonight.
On February 28 2009 22:55 LTT wrote:From there, everyone needs to PM the veteran their roles.
I was with you until this. Is it really legal for town members to claim in private to eachother? You'll probably think I'm maf for saying this, but that's incredibly lame and allows for a scenario such as the one you described where it's very difficult for the mafia to win.
This is my first mafia game with TL, so I'm more than willing to play by whatever style you guys are accustomed to, but in every other mafia game I've played, the only townies allowed to communicate in private amongst eachother are masons, and that's a specialized gametype.
On February 28 2009 22:55 LTT wrote:From there, everyone needs to PM the veteran their roles.
I was with you until this. Is it really legal for town members to claim in private to eachother? You'll probably think I'm maf for saying this, but that's incredibly lame and allows for a scenario such as the one you described where it's very difficult for the mafia to win.
It is very much legal. It's how town won in game 2. And since I was mafia in game 2 i can tell you that is indeed very hard to win against and thus very beneficial to town if we can pull it off.
It is legal. Look at Mafia 2. It was effective there as the Leader was completely protected from Mafia. It's less effective in this game as we don't know the number of each role so it is harder to ferret out lying.
If you aren't playing to win, why are you playing at all? The Mafia is organized and knows their own roles. Why the fuck shouldn't we take steps to organize ourselves? Mafia are just going to claim to be something else or they are not going to PM at all. We don't learn anything. It isn't isntant win. It just allows us to act as a unit like the Mafia are rather than everyone acting randomly and possibly wasting abilities due to duplication.
Why would you be against this at all? Shady, man. Very shady.
On February 28 2009 22:55 LTT wrote:From there, everyone needs to PM the veteran their roles.
I was with you until this. Is it really legal for town members to claim in private to eachother? You'll probably think I'm maf for saying this, but that's incredibly lame and allows for a scenario such as the one you described where it's very difficult for the mafia to win.
It is very much legal. It's how town won in game 2. And since I was mafia in game 2 i can tell you that is indeed very hard to win against and thus very beneficial to town if we can pull it off.
My point is it's too beneficial. It's beneficial to the point that it's ridiculously imbalanced for town.
Yes, mafia could fakeclaim, but not very easily. It would be impossible to fakeclaim as a veteran, since with LTT's plan they would all be verified, so that's already a bunch of guaranteed town. They could try fakeclaiming as a paramedic, but as soon as someone died that they were supposed to protect, it would be suspicious. Of course they could choose not to kill that target, so as not to arouse suspicion, but it would further shorten their list of viable targets. They could fake claim private eye, but even that could be outed by having the main veteran tell them to investigate someone they know is a veteran, and seeing if they correctly identify them.
I'll do whatever is necessary (and legal) to win, I just think it's pointless when the game is virtually solved from the beginning. It takes the point out of the game, which is trying to read people and determine how sincere they are. Of course, there will always be an element of puzzle-solving, as there should be, but when it's 100% out of the hands of either team, that's a bit ridiculous.
Sorry, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just wanted to voice my concern, and this will be the last post you see me doing it from here on.
It is a very well thought out plan, LTT. Kudos for that.
Good morning guys. Just finished reading through all of the posts and listened to Scaramanga's idea. Question: How many vets should we assume there are? Chuiu specifically stated that Role counts are hidden this game so I'm not sure if we should just assume there are multiple Vets. The fact that medics can't protect consecutive nights will allow the "mouthpiece" to just get killed off. I think a votecheck into town circle is the best idea instead of blues just PMing the vet their roles. People just have to hope that the PE is responsible and can get the town circle set up.
Having a bunch of confirmed town is the entire point of the plan. Is it unfair for the mafia? Yeah definitely. But I'm not about to play nice to them. I had to deal with an even harder situation (what with mayor and bodyguards and Ace's masterplan and all that) so mafia have no right to whine.
If you have an alternative into how we can have a confirmed cirle based off a private eye, I'm all ears.
Look at Chuiu's past games. I'm willing to bet the game on the fact that there are not 0 or 1 Vetaran. Even if there is only 1 though, we haven't lost anything. We learn the total numbers of each role at the cost of 1 veteran.
On February 28 2009 22:55 LTT wrote:From there, everyone needs to PM the veteran their roles.
I was with you until this. Is it really legal for town members to claim in private to eachother? You'll probably think I'm maf for saying this, but that's incredibly lame and allows for a scenario such as the one you described where it's very difficult for the mafia to win.
It is very much legal. It's how town won in game 2. And since I was mafia in game 2 i can tell you that is indeed very hard to win against and thus very beneficial to town if we can pull it off.
My point is it's too beneficial. It's beneficial to the point that it's ridiculously imbalanced for town.
Yes, mafia could fakeclaim, but not very easily. It would be impossible to fakeclaim as a veteran, since with LTT's plan they would all be verified, so that's already a bunch of guaranteed town. They could try fakeclaiming as a paramedic, but as soon as someone died that they were supposed to protect, it would be suspicious. Of course they could choose not to kill that target, so as not to arouse suspicion, but it would further shorten their list of viable targets. They could fake claim private eye, but even that could be outed by having the main veteran tell them to investigate someone they know is a veteran, and seeing if they correctly identify them.
I'll do whatever is necessary (and legal) to win, I just think it's pointless when the game is virtually solved from the beginning. It takes the point out of the game, which is trying to read people and determine how sincere they are. Of course, there will always be an element of puzzle-solving, as there should be, but when it's 100% out of the hands of either team, that's a bit ridiculous.
Sorry, I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I just wanted to voice my concern, and this will be the last post you see me doing it from here on.
It is a very well thought out plan, LTT. Kudos for that.
It is not as "imbalanced" as you are claiming it to be. Previous games show that a town circle being set up doesn't necessarily equate to a win. You have to remember that Mafia are also talking to each other from the get go and setting up their own plans.
Also, Mafia "fakeclaiming" is a lot more complicated than what you are making it out to be. They don't just send a single PM "claiming" a role. They prepare what they are going to say, send the PM, and take actions to make that PM be more convincing.
On the flip side, townspeople aren't as trusting as you are making them out to be either. Just because someone claims they are a blue, they will take many steps before they actually trust that claim. Of course this could go either way (beneficial because they thwarted a mafia's claim to get in the blue circle, detrimental because they prevented a real blue from getting in). If you don't
Finally, a request: If you a green, don't claim to be a blue unless you are trying to take a hit for one (an action which is beyond our selfish capabilities). This cuts the crap blues will likely have to face and makes it easier to catch mafias who are "fakeclaiming" by narrowing down the scenarios to either (A) a real blue is actually claiming his role or (B) a red is claiming a blue's role to get in on the circle.
On March 01 2009 00:55 redtooth wrote: Crap so much happened while I was writing my post. Hold up give me a second and I'll tell see if I can think of a plan.
It doesn't matter much now. The Veteran Leader plan has started.
OK in this situation I suggest blues really do send their roles to a confirmed vet. Hopefully we end up having more than one vet throughout the game but we'll see how that turns out. You guys can get an irc started or something and start brainstorming. At least that's how they rolled in previous games (mafia also had IRCs rolling to plan posts carefully).
To make the town circle larger (and thereby eliminating candidates for mafia) PE should do vote listchecks early. It's really a win-win situation IMO. Either you snag a mafia on a list (and then we can do behavior analysis to narrow it down if its a large list) or you get a fully clean list who you integrate into your town circle.
I don't understand why he voted for blue_arrow. I'm sure he's nothing and its possible that he doesn't even realize the game is going on. inertinept is at least more logical.
Eh, I'm just ranting now. I'm sure Dyno. is a vet. No way mafia would come out and risk it.
One brave citizen has risen from the masses to lead. Is he signing his own hit? His enemies lie waiting, but his fellow supporters are aligning their efforts to thwart the evil.....
I'd like to once again remind our paramedics to please protect me tonight. I will be without my extra life, and it's imperative that I stay alive for this plan to work.
Detectives: Can you ask if the "benign" clue points to inertinept? You guys have daily powers so at this point it is fine to check him out. Hopefully we had a lucky Day 1 clue analysis and this pays off. If not, we just prove his innocence so its win-win. When Dyno. gets confirmed, just PM him your roles/result of clue check.
edit: added colors, formatted better, no words/content were changes
Dyno, it isn't. Tonight, Chuiu has a Vote Count. Voting won't end until another day after that. The other veterans can confirm themselves to you at the final vote in the same manner. You then have all night to organize and pass them all your information. You can then organize the medics after they have PMed you once you are confirmed. All this happens before the Mafia gets a single hit, so no one has to rush to do anything right now.
Blue_arrow is mostly an arbitrary vote. However, as mentioned in a post shortly after the day 1 post, the "sharp person" is most likely a clue, and arrows are certainly sharp. It's not much to go off of, but it's more than anyone else.
I saw the idea that maybe the "some that looked like they had been incarcerated for past crimes" line may be a clue, but I think that was just flavor text. I don't think he would give us such a huge clue as that.
It's a moot point anyway since he won't be lynched.
Alright I just reread the role listing and realized that the Don can use snakeskin and be immune to cluechecks. That changes a lot and I guess we can't assume a person cleared by a cluecheck is totally innocent. Detectives: Go ahead and cluecheck inertinept anyways. It's the best thing to go on right now and we can just play it by ear from there.
Dyno, can you confirm in this thread that you sent a PM to Chuiu regarding your vote? You are probably a veteran, but if not I don't want you to have the excuse that "I didn't know I had to PM Chuiu".
Actually it would be a better idea to clue check redtooth and blue_arrow for the sharpness clue. Since we are going to lynch someone before detectives ever get a chance to check for anything. And that person is going to be inertinept most likely so it doesn't make any sense to clue check him.
@nightmare yes we vote in this thread. I suggest we all vote for inertinept but if someone can make another solid case against someone else I'm open to suggestions.
On February 28 2009 15:12 redtooth wrote: Yes it's finally started!
First off, we shouldn't do any clue analysis on the first day (especially clues that vague...). I don't know if RoL and Pyrr are probing but I suggest you lay off accusing. You'd be surprised how influential bandwagons are. I really don't want to die the first day just because you thought "sharp" equates to "redtooth" and "blue_arrow". That's just stupid.
As for "start posting", there's only a few people who have a significant enough background to be threatened by behavior analysis. Especially since the majority of the "power players" are either smurfing or not playing. We'll see how that turns out (Ace are you out there somewhere?).
Just guessing that a silent player is mafia is probably not a good idea. I think a lot of players in this game are new players (at least that is what I feel...) and we can expect some to be legitimately not participating due to forgetfulness or otherwise. Now if that silent person was previously an active poster... that changes things.
Also, using powers is different per role. The OP makes it sound like detective gets to use his ability nightly (confirmation please?) while the doctor cannot use his ability two nights in a row. This will lead to more strategical uses (staggering saves to keep a person alive?) but severely weakens the doctor and makes each save precious.
Though its only been an ~hour since the game started at the time of writing this, I actually expected much more participation even at this stage. Come on guys, let's keep this game alive, running, and fun! It's 1AM EST so when I wake up I hope to see a lot more posts!
Ok, so i'm not trying to align myself against redtooth, since he seems like he really is trying to help. On the other hand, we should be careful because if he is the "sharp" character, he could be leading us astray. So just like how we are going to wait on PMing Dyno, we should wait on following redtooth till we can know just a bit more. Though if he is proven innocent, he looks like he will be a great, strong leader in this game!
Well, we really should start voting. So far there are only two votes?
In that case, I'm as well voting for inertinept to be lynched.
As for the detectives checking him out:
I think it's a bad idea because of the following things: -if you just randomly call them out, they'll end up checking him X-1 times (but certainly more than one), wasting their skills with overkilling it -you're still suspicious, aren't you? (at least somewhat, sharp could be tied to redtooth, even if it's marginal) -say, a detective used his powers to check out inertinept. He gets the result, and then what? He only gets the result when the day is over (as far as my understanding goes), and by that time the lynching will be done already. Besides, even if he got the results before - what could he do? Waving arms around "HEY GUYS INERTINEPT ISN'T MAFIA PLZ DON'T LYNCH HIM" - I bet that'd really convince the town that it isn't just a mafia ploy . We couldn't know if someone doing that was a real detective, or a mafia to defy our plan, because the said detective couldn't prove himself (not until Dyno is a proven veteran, revealing oneself to him now in order to make yourself innocent too could prove disastrous, should he be fake-claiming).
Bottom line: To me, it seems that inertinept will be gone either way. I would suggest PE's / detectives to use their abilities elsewhere, it wouldn't matter on inertinept now.
And definitely, medics should watch out for Dyno - we'll see what tomorrow brings.
On March 01 2009 01:11 LTT wrote: Dyno, can you confirm in this thread that you sent a PM to Chuiu regarding your vote? You are probably a veteran, but if not I don't want you to have the excuse that "I didn't know I had to PM Chuiu".
I don't know what I was smoking a few posts ago but assuming a person innocent after being cleared of a cluecheck is a terrible (and incorrect) idea. My bad for suggesting that. People can still be mafia without having the clue pointing to them.
As for cluechecking me, I'm fine with it. We can also assume there is more than one detective and have them check each (me, inertinept, blue_arrow). Though they can't communicate with each other, we can try to organize them in a "public" manner.
Detective with a name that starts with a letter earlier in the alphabet (i.e. A-M) check redtooth. Detective with a name that starts with a letter later in the alphabet (i.e. N-Z) check blue_arrow.
Though that doesn't guarantee they won't overlap, it still gives a better chance than being silent.
edit: Wanted to add that this is "Just a thought" and might fail epically.
Detectives, do not waste you clue check on inertinept, since we are going to lynch him anyways your check will be wasted on him. Use your check elsewhere.
On March 01 2009 01:21 redtooth wrote: I don't know what I was smoking a few posts ago but assuming a person innocent after being cleared of a cluecheck is a terrible (and incorrect) idea. My bad for suggesting that. People can still be mafia without having the clue pointing to them.
...
That's a pretty important point too. What do you have to say about checking inertinept out being a waste? (I want to provide discussion over here so detectives can go on their own)
Wow. This moves along quite quickly. I woke up at 10:00 or so to try to catch up on what's happening and every time I refresh there's like twenty more posts to read through.
As for the clue analysis, I am inclined to agree that the only 'strong' lead we have at this point are what has been mentioned already in the thread. I will hold off on voting until after I've had more time to soak in all of it.
On March 01 2009 01:25 BWdero wrote: Just want to clarify something.
Detectives, do not waste you clue check on inertinept, since we are going to lynch him anyways your check will be wasted on him. Use your check elsewhere.
Yeah, exactly what I was saying above.
Ok time to cut the 2liner posts, I don't want to clutter this thread with meaningless junk. But we're thinking alike (if there's gonna be more than 3 voters here, LOL :D)
Oh wow activity in this game exploded in the last few hours. I don't really have any input right now, just wanted to post some to clarify I'm not inactive Guess I'll have some reading to do now.
On March 01 2009 01:28 ahswtini wrote: I think the most solid lead we have today is inertinept, detectives follow up on other clues (such as the sharp reference).
inertinept is essentially a dead man walking (unless people continue to not vote). Like BWdero stated we don't need to waste a check on him. Go ahead and check me (redtooth) and blue_arrow. Its better to just blindly throw out a cluecheck than it is to just let it waste and go to the next night.
I'm holding off on voting for inertinept because I want to hear an argument. Will probably end up voting for him anyways but just wanted his two cents in it before we kill him off.
By the way, what do you guys think of my little plan to prevent detectives from checking the same person?
On March 01 2009 01:28 ahswtini wrote: I think the most solid lead we have today is inertinept, detectives follow up on other clues (such as the sharp reference).
inertinept is essentially a dead man walking (unless people continue to not vote). Like BWdero stated we don't need to waste a check on him. Go ahead and check me (redtooth) and blue_arrow. Its better to just blindly throw out a cluecheck than it is to just let it waste and go to the next night.
I'm holding off on voting for inertinept because I want to hear an argument. Will probably end up voting for him anyways but just wanted his two cents in it before we kill him off.
By the way, what do you guys think of my little plan to prevent detectives from checking the same person?
It's Moot. Once Dyno is confirmed, he can coordinate Detective checks to prevent overlap.
I'm not 100% convinced of it, but its about as good as you can expect from one day, and it doesnt make sense to not lynch anyone even if we could somehow organize that.
On March 01 2009 01:28 ahswtini wrote: I think the most solid lead we have today is inertinept, detectives follow up on other clues (such as the sharp reference).
inertinept is essentially a dead man walking (unless people continue to not vote). Like BWdero stated we don't need to waste a check on him. Go ahead and check me (redtooth) and blue_arrow. Its better to just blindly throw out a cluecheck than it is to just let it waste and go to the next night.
I'm holding off on voting for inertinept because I want to hear an argument. Will probably end up voting for him anyways but just wanted his two cents in it before we kill him off.
By the way, what do you guys think of my little plan to prevent detectives from checking the same person?
It's Moot. Once Dyno is confirmed, he can coordinate Detective checks to prevent overlap.
That arises a question, though. I understand how you can prove to Dyno (if he's innocent) that you're a paramedic, and veteran, but what about the other roles?
Here's what I thought (for detectives, as they haven't been discussed yet). Most likely mafia will try to impose as a detective, I think it's inevitable (they see how we weeded out the chances for veteran / paramedic, but maybe they'll try smth. there too, who knows). Anyway: if anyone claims that he has found a clue that links to a specific person, it'll be up to Dyno to trust him or not.
If I were Dyno, I would accept a claim PM-ed to him because: if the PMer is a detective, the PM isn't forged, and we'll get a mafia member. If the PM is forged then we'll have a sure mafia even after we lynch an innocent person first. I would advise this as the path to take, after Dyno's proven to be a vet.
Obviously, he should be proceeding caotiously until any detective catches (or claims to catch) a culprit. Most likely mafia will try to pose as a detective that simply can't find anything.
Another, costly way to confirm detectives is to send them on missions, and lynch the target (regardless of being red or green). That takes a day of lynches (or half a double) just to confirm a detective's innocence, though. I wouldn't recommend this, waste of lives and time too.
And anyway, detectives are deemed to get clues right once in a while, so we don't need the above paragraph. Just don't trust anyone with information as long as they only tell you "I checked X and he was innocent"
Thoughts?
P.s.: I'm going out now, will read stuff when I got back. Laters.
On March 01 2009 01:28 ahswtini wrote: I think the most solid lead we have today is inertinept, detectives follow up on other clues (such as the sharp reference).
inertinept is essentially a dead man walking (unless people continue to not vote). Like BWdero stated we don't need to waste a check on him. Go ahead and check me (redtooth) and blue_arrow. Its better to just blindly throw out a cluecheck than it is to just let it waste and go to the next night.
I'm holding off on voting for inertinept because I want to hear an argument. Will probably end up voting for him anyways but just wanted his two cents in it before we kill him off.
By the way, what do you guys think of my little plan to prevent detectives from checking the same person?
It's Moot. Once Dyno is confirmed, he can coordinate Detective checks to prevent overlap.
That arises a question, though. I understand how you can prove to Dyno (if he's innocent) that you're a paramedic, and veteran, but what about the other roles?
Here's what I thought (for detectives, as they haven't been discussed yet). Most likely mafia will try to impose as a detective, I think it's inevitable (they see how we weeded out the chances for veteran / paramedic, but maybe they'll try smth. there too, who knows). Anyway: if anyone claims that he has found a clue that links to a specific person, it'll be up to Dyno to trust him or not.
If I were Dyno, I would accept a claim PM-ed to him because: if the PMer is a detective, the PM isn't forged, and we'll get a mafia member. If the PM is forged then we'll have a sure mafia even after we lynch an innocent person first. I would advise this as the path to take, after Dyno's proven to be a vet.
Obviously, he should be proceeding caotiously until any detective catches (or claims to catch) a culprit. Most likely mafia will try to pose as a detective that simply can't find anything.
Another, costly way to confirm detectives is to send them on missions, and lynch the target (regardless of being red or green). That takes a day of lynches (or half a double) just to confirm a detective's innocence, though. I wouldn't recommend this, waste of lives and time too.
And anyway, detectives are deemed to get clues right once in a while, so we don't need the above paragraph. Just don't trust anyone with information as long as they only tell you "I checked X and he was innocent"
Thoughts?
P.s.: I'm going out now, will read stuff when I got back. Laters.
There are lots of way to root out fake roleclaims. These aren't the best things to post publically, though. Once Dyno is confirmed, I'll share my thoughts.
It isn't a big deal though. Dyno should be suspicious of everyone except for confirmed veterans. He can slowly build from there and give directions to all of the blues whether they are confirmed or not.
People who are voting, remember that we vote for town abilities at the same time when we vote. Also, I have thought of another reason why we shouldn't try to use overtime. Mafia can just backlash on the same day, and totally waste the town ability. It is MUCH more useful to sanctuary, and the sooner the better considering that we have to wait a day before we can use another ability. Also, I think people can vote for blue_arrow just fine just as long as a vet other than dyno doesn't use their special vote on him.
I vote for inertinept I vote for sanctuary paramedic
EDIT: I change my town ability vote from sanctuary paramedic to sanctuary veteran
Just wanted to reiterate that if Dyno. is confirmed to be vet, greensshould not try to actblue. Yes we might be bored but don't disrupt the blues in what they are doing.
Original request with explanation:
On March 01 2009 00:55 redtooth wrote: Finally, a request: If you a green, don't claim to be a blue unless you are trying to take a hit for one (an action which is beyond our selfish capabilities). This cuts the crap blues will likely have to face and makes it easier to catch mafias who are "fakeclaiming" by narrowing down the scenarios to either (A) a real blue is actually claiming his role or (B) a red is claiming a blue's role to get in on the circle.
By claiming you are a blue when you are indeed green, you create a third scenario and a dilemma for the vet who has to decide whether you are mafia or just a stupid townie.
Man I just realized my posts are getting more and more colorful.
On March 01 2009 02:01 Qatol wrote: People who are voting, remember that we vote for town abilities at the same time when we vote. Also, I have thought of another reason why we shouldn't try to use overtime. Mafia can just backlash on the same day, and totally waste the town ability. It is MUCH more useful to sanctuary, and the sooner the better considering that we have to wait a day before we can use another ability. Also, I think people can vote for blue_arrow just fine just as long as a vet other than dyno doesn't use their special vote on him.
I vote for inertinept I vote for sanctuary paramedic
Why use town abilities so early? None of the paramedics have been revealed, as far as I know, I personally think we should save the three abilities for later.
Just to be on the safe side. We keep Dyno from dying on the first night by using sanctuary veteran right? But we need 31 votes to use it. Do we feel confident that we can get 31 votes on sanctuary veteran between the preliminary vote count and the real vote count? Otherwise it would be best to vote on it now.
On March 01 2009 02:01 Qatol wrote: People who are voting, remember that we vote for town abilities at the same time when we vote. Also, I have thought of another reason why we shouldn't try to use overtime. Mafia can just backlash on the same day, and totally waste the town ability. It is MUCH more useful to sanctuary, and the sooner the better considering that we have to wait a day before we can use another ability. Also, I think people can vote for blue_arrow just fine just as long as a vet other than dyno doesn't use their special vote on him.
I vote for inertinept I vote for sanctuary paramedic
Why use town abilities so early? None of the paramedics have been revealed, as far as I know, I personally think we should save the three abilities for later.
Because I don't think the game will last long enough for us to use all the town abilities (the earliest we can use them all is day 5) before this game is pretty much decided. I would much rather let the mafia hit medics and wonder if their targets were either vets or medic protected tonight than just needlessly lose a source of extra night lives, especially since the mafia KP is 5 now but will decrease in the future. More hits = more likely to hit a medic, which is the most dangerous thing the mafia can do right now.
On March 01 2009 02:08 BWdero wrote: Just to be on the safe side. We keep Dyno from dying on the first night by using sanctuary veteran right? But we need 31 votes to use it. Do we feel confident that we can get 31 votes on sanctuary veteran between the preliminary vote count and the real vote count? Otherwise it would be best to vote on it now.
I thought we only need a majority of votes for Sanctuary veteran out of those who are voting for a lynch. Not the majority of the town need to vote for Sanctuary.
On March 01 2009 02:08 BWdero wrote: Just to be on the safe side. We keep Dyno from dying on the first night by using sanctuary veteran right? But we need 31 votes to use it. Do we feel confident that we can get 31 votes on sanctuary veteran between the preliminary vote count and the real vote count? Otherwise it would be best to vote on it now.
Losing Dyno is NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. If the mafia realistically want to take him out, they have to stack kills on him. Remember that they have 5 kills per night right now in a 60 person game. They have a lot of people to kill before we get enough clues that we can get a high rate of lynch due to clue analysis. I don't think they can afford to use the hits it will take to overcome medic protection on Dyno (though they will probably throw at least 1 hit at him just in case the medics miss their protections).
I never said it was. I merely pointed out that if we plan on using a sanctuary we should vote on it early since we require a majority of the town to enact it.
There will be another vote count later today and one final one on sunday before moving to night.
On February 28 2009 14:36 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Can we use 1 power 3 times or each power only once? If we can use any powers up to 3 times then I think we might want to make sure medics live tonight.
Well assuming you're talking about town abilities you may use a total of three town abilities however you want. IE. 3 double lynches or 2 overtimes and a double lynch or one of each or any other arrangement of them. Mafia can only use one of their three abilities.
On February 28 2009 22:47 ahswtini wrote: We don't know who to protect so Sanctuary's pretty useless. Won't overtime be in effect on Night 1? We vote during the day, so surely the following night is Night 1? Maybe Chuiu can clarify this
Its the following day/night not the following night. Meaning if you vote on it day 1 it won't start till day 2.
On February 28 2009 23:25 LTT wrote: There is something though, we can't use abilities 2 consecutive days. So if we sanctuary Day 1, we can't overtime day 2, and it wouldn't even take effect until day 3. (Chuiu, can we vote for abilities on 2 consecutive days if the abilities would not take effect on consecutive days?)
You can vote on abilities a day ahead of time. So if town abilities are on cooldown you can still elect to use one the following day.
Finally dug through the wall of text. I agree that we should use sanctuary early. This is my first active game so I'm not totally set on finding clues, but whatever. If anything, I think a sanctuary on paramedic (or detective perhaps?) might be the best move for the town day 1.
So right now we're trying to confirm if Dyno is a veteran by seeing the preliminary vote count from Chuiu? If that's the case I'll hold out on voting. In any event, I think using sanctuary tonight would be an idea, for either protecting Dyno so we have a confirmed non-mafia to coordinate or for protecting medics or detectives cause we'll be needing as many of them as we can get later on.
People, PLEASE stop just voting for a lynch. We need to use a special ability as well. I don't care if you decide that sanctuary veteran is better than sanctuary medic. Vote for that instead. However, it is a HUGE waste if we can't use one of these abilities today.
He told us that he had a veteran extra vote, and sure enough the only votes for blue_arrow are Dyno. and a veteran vote. There's no doubt he's a good guy.
On March 01 2009 02:58 Qatol wrote: People, PLEASE stop just voting for a lynch. We need to use a special ability as well. I don't care if you decide that sanctuary veteran is better than sanctuary medic. Vote for that instead. However, it is a HUGE waste if we can't use one of these abilities today.
The good: Dyno. is protected for night, giving us Night 1 + Day 2 to coordinate. Especially with many players in different time zone this is nice. Also medics will not have to worry about overlapping protection on him since he has been sanctuary'd. Other option is to sanctuary -> medic, which will leave mafia if they hit a vet (not dyno) or a medic confused - i think the odds are not too great here, they only have 5 hits right?
The Bad: We don't get another ability until NIght 2/day 3 depending what we pick.
I say go for it to sanctuary -> vet, we gotta get 31 votes though and right now Qatol is on Sanctuary: Paramedic. Let's get a consensus here. I vote inertinept btw
On March 01 2009 02:58 Amber[LighT] wrote: I mean how am I supposed to believe you?
Dyno. is a veteran and used his extra ability to vote for Blue_arrow. Because Chuiu's vote check confirms that a vetaran used his ability to vote, it confirms that Dyno. is a veteran 100%.
On March 01 2009 03:01 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Is it a good idea then to sanctuary -> veteran?
The good: Dyno. is protected for night, giving us Night 1 + Day 2 to coordinate. Especially with many players in different time zone this is nice. Also medics will not have to worry about overlapping protection on him since he has been sanctuary'd. Other option is to sanctuary -> medic, which will leave mafia if they hit a vet (not dyno) or a medic confused - i think the odds are not too great here, they only have 5 hits right?
The Bad: We don't get another ability until NIght 2/day 3 depending what we pick.
I say go for it to sanctuary -> vet, we gotta get 31 votes though and right now Qatol is on Sanctuary: Paramedic. Let's get a consensus here. I vote inertinept btw
I still argue that it is better to sanctuary the medics because it turns Dyno into a figurehead that the medics can all protect. If we are going to use sanctuary -> vet, ALL of the vets had better voteclaim to Dyno and then use their vet votes on random people so Dyno has a confirmed circle to start with. If it looks like sanctuary veteran is the call, I will gladly change my vote to that.
On March 01 2009 03:01 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Is it a good idea then to sanctuary -> veteran?
The good: Dyno. is protected for night, giving us Night 1 + Day 2 to coordinate. Especially with many players in different time zone this is nice. Also medics will not have to worry about overlapping protection on him since he has been sanctuary'd. Other option is to sanctuary -> medic, which will leave mafia if they hit a vet (not dyno) or a medic confused - i think the odds are not too great here, they only have 5 hits right?
The Bad: We don't get another ability until NIght 2/day 3 depending what we pick.
I say go for it to sanctuary -> vet, we gotta get 31 votes though and right now Qatol is on Sanctuary: Paramedic. Let's get a consensus here. I vote inertinept btw
if we vote for Sanctuary day 1 it won't kick in until night 2
On February 28 2009 22:47 ahswtini wrote: We don't know who to protect so Sanctuary's pretty useless. Won't overtime be in effect on Night 1? We vote during the day, so surely the following night is Night 1? Maybe Chuiu can clarify this
Its the following day/night not the following night. Meaning if you vote on it day 1 it won't start till day 2.
I vote for Inertinept I vote for Sanctuary - Veteran
townies should refrain from voting unless it's also for sanctuary, imo.
On March 01 2009 03:01 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Is it a good idea then to sanctuary -> veteran?
The good: Dyno. is protected for night, giving us Night 1 + Day 2 to coordinate. Especially with many players in different time zone this is nice. Also medics will not have to worry about overlapping protection on him since he has been sanctuary'd. Other option is to sanctuary -> medic, which will leave mafia if they hit a vet (not dyno) or a medic confused - i think the odds are not too great here, they only have 5 hits right?
The Bad: We don't get another ability until NIght 2/day 3 depending what we pick.
I say go for it to sanctuary -> vet, we gotta get 31 votes though and right now Qatol is on Sanctuary: Paramedic. Let's get a consensus here. I vote inertinept btw
I still argue that it is better to sanctuary the medics because it turns Dyno into a figurehead that the medics can all protect. If we are going to use sanctuary -> vet, ALL of the vets had better voteclaim to Dyno and then use their vet votes on random people so Dyno has a confirmed circle to start with. If it looks like sanctuary veteran is the call, I will gladly change my vote to that.
That is the plan regarding the Veterans confirming themselves. Might as well protect them while they are vulnerable.
On March 01 2009 03:01 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Is it a good idea then to sanctuary -> veteran?
The good: Dyno. is protected for night, giving us Night 1 + Day 2 to coordinate. Especially with many players in different time zone this is nice. Also medics will not have to worry about overlapping protection on him since he has been sanctuary'd. Other option is to sanctuary -> medic, which will leave mafia if they hit a vet (not dyno) or a medic confused - i think the odds are not too great here, they only have 5 hits right?
The Bad: We don't get another ability until NIght 2/day 3 depending what we pick.
I say go for it to sanctuary -> vet, we gotta get 31 votes though and right now Qatol is on Sanctuary: Paramedic. Let's get a consensus here. I vote inertinept btw
if we vote for Sanctuary day 1 it won't kick in until night 2
On February 28 2009 22:47 ahswtini wrote: We don't know who to protect so Sanctuary's pretty useless. Won't overtime be in effect on Night 1? We vote during the day, so surely the following night is Night 1? Maybe Chuiu can clarify this
Its the following day/night not the following night. Meaning if you vote on it day 1 it won't start till day 2.
I vote for Inertinept I vote for Sanctuary - Veteran
townies should refrain from voting unless it's also for sanctuary, imo.
edit: changed my vote from Sanc Para to Sanc Vet
Wait, to be clear: Day 1 we vote for sanctuary. It does not happen until Night 2? I thought this was only with overtime...
To follow up on what Qatol said, are we gonna roleclaim all our veterans? It would be nice to have a list of safe people, but the more veterans that make themselves known the more we have to spread the paramedics around.
On March 01 2009 03:01 iNfuNdiBuLuM wrote: Is it a good idea then to sanctuary -> veteran?
The good: Dyno. is protected for night, giving us Night 1 + Day 2 to coordinate. Especially with many players in different time zone this is nice. Also medics will not have to worry about overlapping protection on him since he has been sanctuary'd. Other option is to sanctuary -> medic, which will leave mafia if they hit a vet (not dyno) or a medic confused - i think the odds are not too great here, they only have 5 hits right?
The Bad: We don't get another ability until NIght 2/day 3 depending what we pick.
I say go for it to sanctuary -> vet, we gotta get 31 votes though and right now Qatol is on Sanctuary: Paramedic. Let's get a consensus here. I vote inertinept btw
if we vote for Sanctuary day 1 it won't kick in until night 2
On March 01 2009 02:43 Chuiu wrote:
On February 28 2009 22:47 ahswtini wrote: We don't know who to protect so Sanctuary's pretty useless. Won't overtime be in effect on Night 1? We vote during the day, so surely the following night is Night 1? Maybe Chuiu can clarify this
Its the following day/night not the following night. Meaning if you vote on it day 1 it won't start till day 2.
I vote for Inertinept I vote for Sanctuary - Veteran
townies should refrain from voting unless it's also for sanctuary, imo.
edit: changed my vote from Sanc Para to Sanc Vet
Wait, to be clear: Day 1 we vote for sanctuary. It does not happen until Night 2? I thought this was only with overtime...
It's kind of ambiguous from reading rules post.
I think it'll kick in tonight, the post I was quoting was referring to Overtime, which kicks in the next day/night cycle
As for a town ability, I still feel it's too early to be using Sanctuary, which can only be used once, on the first very night. With the Mafia having only a kill power of 5, the town lacking vigilantes in addition to lynching, and the not-entirely implausible assumption that there's more than one veteran, I think this will actually be a pretty long game. Especially on the first night, when the Mafia has a much lower probability of hitting a Medic than just about any other night, I would think.
But I'm very open to arguments against that, as long as the arguers use small words, short sentences and easy-to-understand metaphors.
On March 01 2009 03:11 Scooter wrote: my bad, thanks for clearing that up.
To follow up on what Qatol said, are we gonna roleclaim all our veterans? It would be nice to have a list of safe people, but the more veterans that make themselves known the more we have to spread the paramedics around.
I argue that we don't roleclaim them publicly. Instead veterans should PM their veteran vote to Dyno and he can spread the IDs of the vets to each other once the vets are confirmed
On March 01 2009 03:11 Scooter wrote: my bad, thanks for clearing that up.
To follow up on what Qatol said, are we gonna roleclaim all our veterans? It would be nice to have a list of safe people, but the more veterans that make themselves known the more we have to spread the paramedics around.
I argue that we don't roleclaim them publicly. Instead veterans should PM their veteran vote to Dyno and he can spread the IDs of the vets to each other once the vets are confirmed
On March 01 2009 03:11 Scooter wrote: my bad, thanks for clearing that up.
To follow up on what Qatol said, are we gonna roleclaim all our veterans? It would be nice to have a list of safe people, but the more veterans that make themselves known the more we have to spread the paramedics around.
I argue that we don't roleclaim them publicly. Instead veterans should PM their veteran vote to Dyno and he can spread the IDs of the vets to each other once the vets are confirmed
Yes. That was the plan. Let me repost it:
1.) One vet roleclaims and uses their ability. Done 2.) Once confirmed via Chuiu's vote count, everyone PMs him their roles. Confirmed 3.) Other Vets can confirm to him that they are vets by using their voting power. We now have all veterans confirmed but only 1 public. 4.) They coordinate medic protection. 5.) If the original vet dies, the other vets can use a mouthpiece. One vet should use a person who PMed the role of townie to speak in the thread. Do not reveal anything to that townie. If the Vet dies, the other vets immediately know that the townie was mafia.
On March 01 2009 03:13 dreamflower wrote: I vote for inertinept.
As for a town ability, I still feel it's too early to be using Sanctuary, which can only be used once, on the first very night. With the Mafia having only a kill power of 5, the town lacking vigilantes in addition to lynching, and the not-entirely implausible assumption that there's more than one veteran, I think this will actually be a pretty long game. Especially on the first night, when the Mafia has a much lower probability of hitting a Medic than just about any other night, I would think.
But I'm very open to arguments against that, as long as the arguers use small words, short sentences and easy-to-understand metaphors.
I think it's fine to use it tonight. If we plan this right, Overtime can essentially be a second more powerful sanctuary because the medics will get double protections.
On March 01 2009 03:11 Scooter wrote: my bad, thanks for clearing that up.
To follow up on what Qatol said, are we gonna roleclaim all our veterans? It would be nice to have a list of safe people, but the more veterans that make themselves known the more we have to spread the paramedics around.
I argue that we don't roleclaim them publicly. Instead veterans should PM their veteran vote to Dyno and he can spread the IDs of the vets to each other once the vets are confirmed
Thats the plan. Veterans will roleclaim to Dyno, who will request them via PM to cast their veteran vote on someone, confirming their claim. Then Dyno will share his info with these confirmed vets. That way we have a group of townies that know each other working together.
Can I point out to the veterans to beware of mafia faking medics. You don't want to think you've got medics covering you, only for most of them to be mafia.
On March 01 2009 03:20 ahswtini wrote: Can I point out to the veterans to beware of mafia faking medics. You don't want to think you've got medics covering you, only for most of them to be mafia.
This isn't really a huge deal. Medics don't really have to be trusted with much information, and if they fail to make a save and the KP doesn't line up, we just found a mafia. If the medic makes a save, confirmed towny. I would be pretty surprised if the mafia tried to mass fake medic.
yup I will confirm that I am mafia. I looked through the day one clues, and there is like 400 red herrings. mafia has absolutely no chance of winning, but good luck.
On March 01 2009 03:31 inertinept wrote: yup I will confirm that I am mafia. I looked through the day one clues, and there is like 400 red herrings. mafia has absolutely no chance of winning, but good luck.
On March 01 2009 03:31 inertinept wrote: yup I will confirm that I am mafia. I looked through the day one clues, and there is like 400 red herrings. mafia has absolutely no chance of winning, but good luck.
please make the clues better next time, lmao.
Well that was easy lol.
yea seriously...benign man? i bet BC is making the clues no offense =P
On March 01 2009 03:31 inertinept wrote: yup I will confirm that I am mafia. I looked through the day one clues, and there is like 400 red herrings. mafia has absolutely no chance of winning, but good luck.
please make the clues better next time, lmao.
Well that was easy lol.
yea seriously...benign man? i bet BC is making the clues no offense =P
No way. I struggled so hard with the clues that BC made when he hosted haha.
On March 01 2009 03:31 inertinept wrote: yup I will confirm that I am mafia. I looked through the day one clues, and there is like 400 red herrings. mafia has absolutely no chance of winning, but good luck.
please make the clues better next time, lmao.
Well that was easy lol.
yea seriously...benign man? i bet BC is making the clues no offense =P
No way. I struggled so hard with the clues that BC made when he hosted haha.
hahaha me too
in any case I'm still not too sure lol. I know people have a tendency to troll town "hint, hint" (fishball and attackzerg COUGH)
No, this is genuine as I cant believe how many red herrings were posted on Day 1, kinda insane. thought I would have fun with my first power role on team liquid mafia, but guess not.
I'm back. I assume all blues have already PM'd dyno. their roles. Hopefully you guys can get a circle started (irc is the way to go). Get greens in there as soon as they are cleared (votelist checking is probably the only way).
inertinept has confirmed he is mafia. Unlucky for him but good job guys in the clue analysis. We can now infer that all of these clues actually mean something. That leaves us with "sharp man" and we can assume we'll have detectives checking me and blue_arrow tonight. Hopefully blue_arrow will also turn up red (I know I won't). Also, Chuiu said "sharp looking man" not "sharp man". This could mean sharp as in the sense of good-looking (suit-wearing, etc). Best case scenario would be that blue_arrow also turns up red.
If we are going to use sanctuary (and it is allowed) then paramedics should save their block tonight. You guys will need it to block dyno. tomorrow night and it will be disabled if you use it tonight.
From listening to inertinept's rant/complaint, he made it sound like the clues are simpler and pretty obvious. I mean the clues leading to inertinept were pretty easy to figure out. That profile picture seems to be a bit of a stretch.
Guys if you haven't done so go ahead and vote for inertinept and Sanctuary Veteran. It would be terrible to not kill an obvious mafia due to people's inactivity.
Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me
Wow this thread just exploded overnight. # I vote for inertinept and sanctuary veteran Good job with the clue analysis and the leaderhead.
Some other fishy stuff [may just be red herrings]: "Thinking it was a lookout they moved to intercept him first. " "it was obvious their opponents were swifter " "by shoving a bat in his mouth"
On March 01 2009 03:11 Scooter wrote: my bad, thanks for clearing that up.
To follow up on what Qatol said, are we gonna roleclaim all our veterans? It would be nice to have a list of safe people, but the more veterans that make themselves known the more we have to spread the paramedics around.
I argue that we don't roleclaim them publicly. Instead veterans should PM their veteran vote to Dyno and he can spread the IDs of the vets to each other once the vets are confirmed
Yes. That was the plan. Let me repost it:
1.) One vet roleclaims and uses their ability. Done 2.) Once confirmed via Chuiu's vote count, everyone PMs him their roles. Confirmed 3.) Other Vets can confirm to him that they are vets by using their voting power. We now have all veterans confirmed but only 1 public. 4.) They coordinate medic protection. 5.) If the original vet dies, the other vets can use a mouthpiece. One vet should use a person who PMed the role of townie to speak in the thread. Do not reveal anything to that townie. If the Vet dies, the other vets immediately know that the townie was mafia.
Again, everyone PM your role to Dyno.
Once Dyno gets a good list he should probably consider hooking up with the mad hatter(s) to use them as mouthpieces once we determine obvious mafia members to latch bombs on to.
On March 01 2009 05:17 3clipse wrote: I vote for inertinept (obviously).
And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this idea with Dyno make it awfully easy for the Mafia to get moles in posing as Vets?
no, the vets check in with dyno, tell him who they will cast the extra vote on. If there is no extra vote on that player, then dyno knows who is lying.
On March 01 2009 05:17 3clipse wrote: I vote for inertinept (obviously).
And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this idea with Dyno make it awfully easy for the Mafia to get moles in posing as Vets?
No. They cannot pose as vets. Every vet will be confirmed today by using their vote ability The same way we confirmed Dyno, they will confirm themselves to Dyno and start the circle. Any mafia that tries to pretend to be a vet is an instant free lynch.
He said there were 400 red herrings, as in clues that weren't really clues. I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset. It doesn't matter much anyways at this point.
dang, looks like everyone is unanimously voting for inertinept so no reason not to vote for him.
I vote for inertinept
looks like we have alot of activities compared to earlier when it was dead... very nice job on the clue analysis guys, but i thought that clue was wayyyy to easy
I suggest the town not vote TOO much for inertinept mainly because of:
1) We can assume some mafia will also vote for inertinept. If a DT uses a vote check on that particular list, then it could come up something like 10/60 are mafia.... We just need enough votes to insure inertinept will be lynched, but not an overkill. This gives the DTs a potential to get something like... 4/20 to work with: a slightly better percentage.
Also, please look here and look at my first post in that page. Notice how Rice came to inertinept's defense. There is reason to believe he is either:
On March 01 2009 07:08 JL13 wrote: Dang, great plan on the veterans LTT and co.
I suggest the town not vote TOO much for inertinept mainly because of:
1) We can assume some mafia will also vote for inertinept. If a DT uses a vote check on that particular list, then it could come up something like 10/60 are mafia.... We just need enough votes to insure inertinept will be lynched, but not an overkill. This gives the DTs a potential to get something like... 4/20 to work with: a slightly better percentage.
Also, please look here and look at my first post in that page. Notice how Rice came to inertinept's defense. There is reason to believe he is either:
1) overzealous town?
2) mafia?
Lastly, ##I vote for Sanctuary on Veterans .
You mean Private Eye right? Yeah, that's a good idea.
On March 01 2009 05:17 3clipse wrote: I vote for inertinept (obviously).
And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this idea with Dyno make it awfully easy for the Mafia to get moles in posing as Vets?
No. They cannot pose as vets. Every vet will be confirmed today by using their vote ability The same way we confirmed Dyno, they will confirm themselves to Dyno and start the circle. Any mafia that tries to pretend to be a vet is an instant free lynch.
They can pretend to be medics or detectives though can't they?
On March 01 2009 05:17 3clipse wrote: I vote for inertinept (obviously).
And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this idea with Dyno make it awfully easy for the Mafia to get moles in posing as Vets?
No. They cannot pose as vets. Every vet will be confirmed today by using their vote ability The same way we confirmed Dyno, they will confirm themselves to Dyno and start the circle. Any mafia that tries to pretend to be a vet is an instant free lynch.
They can pretend to be medics or detectives though can't they?
Indeed. They pretty much have to pretend to be something or just not send in a PM. There are good ways to deal with both.
PM Your role to Dyno. (Note there is a period at the end of his name. Use the link to his profile in the first post of this thread if you aren't sure)
He is 100% confirmed to be a veteran. He is going to be spearheading our organization and leading us to victory!
Even if you are just a Townie, be sure to PM Dyno. anyway. Every bit of information helps.
On March 01 2009 05:17 3clipse wrote: I vote for inertinept (obviously).
And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this idea with Dyno make it awfully easy for the Mafia to get moles in posing as Vets?
No. They cannot pose as vets. Every vet will be confirmed today by using their vote ability The same way we confirmed Dyno, they will confirm themselves to Dyno and start the circle. Any mafia that tries to pretend to be a vet is an instant free lynch.
They can pretend to be medics or detectives though can't they?
This doesn't matter really, it just gives us more info as they're never going to know who other people's roles are. As long as they do what Dyno. is asking them and we keep in mind the ways mafia can play with anything they're faking, once they try and fake some info or can't do what is asked we have a mafia.
On March 01 2009 05:17 3clipse wrote: I vote for inertinept (obviously).
And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this idea with Dyno make it awfully easy for the Mafia to get moles in posing as Vets?
No. They cannot pose as vets. Every vet will be confirmed today by using their vote ability The same way we confirmed Dyno, they will confirm themselves to Dyno and start the circle. Any mafia that tries to pretend to be a vet is an instant free lynch.
They can pretend to be medics or detectives though can't they?
they can pretend to be medics but if the person they're supposed to protect dies, then too bad for the poser. mafia can choose not to attack the person the "medic" is supposed to be protecting, but then strategical hits are limited. as for a detective, mafia will try to pose as one of these, as they are easiest out of all the blues to fake(imo). I have yet to see a clear and fast way to confirm a detective's identity.(correct me if this has been posted)
Holy shit this game must be in an opposite time zone or something. Thread was nine pages and no one had voted I wake up and there's already been a vote count and 20 pages.
On March 01 2009 08:22 Caller wrote: I still don't know about inertinept.
I abstain.
On March 01 2009 03:31 inertinept wrote: yup I will confirm that I am mafia. I looked through the day one clues, and there is like 400 red herrings. mafia has absolutely no chance of winning, but good luck.
please make the clues better next time, lmao.
Yeah man. That is like completely arbitrary. Reminder PM Your role to Dyno. (Note there is a period at the end of his name. Use the link to his profile in the first post of this thread if you aren't sure)
He is 100% confirmed to be a veteran. He is going to be spearheading our organization and leading us to victory!
Even if you are just a Townie, be sure to PM Dyno. anyway. Every bit of information helps.
On March 01 2009 08:22 Caller wrote: I still don't know about inertinept.
I abstain.
At this point, inertinept is basically dead and is almost positively mafia. However, it would be better for you to vote for somebody else so that we don't get an overcrowded votelist.
I'm surprised you say you "stil don't know about inertinept" though... Did you not read? Or are you just a stupid mafia?
I think Dyno. (if he is around to do so) should maybe tell us who to vote for in order to divide up the votes in an organized way to then have a PE do a vote count.
On March 01 2009 08:31 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: I think Dyno. (if he is around to do so) should maybe tell us who to vote for in order to divide up the votes in an organized way to then have a PE do a vote count.
(quoting to avoid editing) I don't know the best way to do this and maybe it is too early? (I dunno) so if someone knows the proper way to do it and how to explain it they should tell Dyno.
On March 01 2009 08:22 Caller wrote: I still don't know about inertinept.
I abstain.
you abstain from voting for inertinept AND for sanc. vets?
good point scooter anyone who votes after everyone started voting for sanc. vets and doesn't vote for sanc. vets should be looked at awfully suspiciously the medics have been told to save their protections for night 2, so we need this sanctuary to keep our leader alive tonight. the mafia's best hope for messing us over early is now is to hope we don't get the 31 necessary to activate the power due to inactivity and ignorance of the plan plus their own feigned inactivity / ignorance of the plan
OK i just finished reading the thread. Dyno is indeed confirmed yet i have some suggestions to make to keep the plan going (plan for this day = lynch inertinept+ sanctuary veteran)
1- Veterans please use dyno to clean you NOW. You can confirm your role anytimewith him via extra vote but We wont have another santuary to protect them all at the same time so this is VETERANS free night. And you will have your extra life next nights, also you are going to win this game.
2- Mad Haters (yeah i remember you guys nobody calls you): Place your bombs tonight (theres no point in holding them and wasting a resource of the town) but place them on inactives and ASK DYNO before placing them (so they dont overlap)
3- DTs: PM your findings to dyno as soon as you have them and hopefully dyno will POST them assigned to a key number each roleclaimed DT (so we can have the info public so cluechecks dont overlap and at the same time having an eye on those "roleclaimed dts".
4- Dyno our loved captain: please ask random roleclaimed townies to vote in separate lists of people. We can easily extend our inner confirmed circle this way: example i assume there are at least 5 vets and all will be confirmed once the votes come via dyno. Dyno asks any number of them to cast the secret vote on X player (to confirm them vet and all them different players) and the other vote on a special list. Then asks X amount of players to vote in the special list. This way we will have a number of players confirmed clean (some vets) with others that want to get confirmed in a list. The best use for our checklists is not to get a 1 of 5 or so mafia BUT TO GET A NONMAFIA. Checklists are always suspect of the PE doing them anyways, so getting a clean list just leaves the PE to get confirmed. If you do this PLEASE make sure you do more than a list and a list with at least 1 vet inside and non the same role every player to confirm because this list will be highly risky to mafia later in the game. Having more than a list and a vet inside each list protects our next to confirm players from mafia.
I vote to lynch inertinept and sanctuary for veterans but i will change my vote as soon if needed for a cleananse list.
First of all, I vote to activate sanctuary:veterans.
Second, I vote to lynch inertinept
Third, I'm most suspicious right now of (other than inert) Rice. He started the game by accusing me, and then tried to deflect the vote off of intertinept, and hasn't really put together a cohesive post yet. But today I'll keep my vote on inert.
On March 01 2009 09:16 malongo wrote: OK i just finished reading the thread. Dyno is indeed confirmed yet i have some suggestions to make to keep the plan going (plan for this day = lynch inertinept+ sanctuary veteran)
1- Veterans please use dyno to clean you NOW. You can confirm your role anytimewith him via extra vote but We wont have another santuary to protect them all at the same time so this is VETERANS free night. And you will have your extra life next nights, also you are going to win this game.
2- Mad Haters (yeah i remember you guys nobody calls you): Place your bombs tonight (theres no point in holding them and wasting a resource of the town) but place them on inactives and ASK DYNO before placing them (so they dont overlap)
3- DTs: PM your findings to dyno as soon as you have them and hopefully dyno will POST them assigned to a key number each roleclaimed DT (so we can have the info public so cluechecks dont overlap and at the same time having an eye on those "roleclaimed dts".
4- Dyno our loved captain: please ask random roleclaimed townies to vote in separate lists of people. We can easily extend our inner confirmed circle this way: example i assume there are at least 5 vets and all will be confirmed once the votes come via dyno. Dyno asks any number of them to cast the secret vote on X player (to confirm them vet and all them different players) and the other vote on a special list. Then asks X amount of players to vote in the special list. This way we will have a number of players confirmed clean (some vets) with others that want to get confirmed in a list. The best use for our checklists is not to get a 1 of 5 or so mafia BUT TO GET A NONMAFIA. Checklists are always suspect of the PE doing them anyways, so getting a clean list just leaves the PE to get confirmed. If you do this PLEASE make sure you do more than a list and a list with at least 1 vet inside and non the same role every player to confirm because this list will be highly risky to mafia later in the game. Having more than a list and a vet inside each list protects our next to confirm players from mafia.
I vote to lynch inertinept and sanctuary for veterans but i will change my vote as soon if needed for a cleananse list.
4 only works if you make a bunch of lists (i.e. tell everyone to vote the way you want) and role check one of those. Its also important that only dyno/cleared people know which list was checked, and who is confirmed. Otherwise mafia will just go after the checked list knowing that there is probably a bunch of blues, and we know they are innocent.
So who is being checked at what point, and who is confirmed should only be known to dyno and whoever he trusts.
Again, I would encourage dyno to compartmentalize as much as possible. If you tell medics to protect someone, dont tell the medic why. Don't tell a dt dont check ____ because a on list ____ is blue. Just tell them to check a specific list. A lack of compartmentalization kills town.
Just see the bodyguard game if you don't believe me. Town had an easy win, but the people in the know released to much information to too many people. Whether you have confirmed someone or not, don't tell them absolutely everything unless it benefits you. Don't just blindly tell everyone everything
On March 01 2009 11:12 3clipse wrote: You guys really think we should be using vet sanctuary so early?
So far, 22 people think so.
Well most people are afraid to dissent lest they be labelled Mafia. I'm just trying to give things some second thought (though it's too late to vote it out now anyway).
On March 01 2009 11:05 fusionsdf wrote: 4 only works if you make a bunch of lists (i.e. tell everyone to vote the way you want) and role check one of those. Its also important that only dyno/cleared people know which list was checked, and who is confirmed. Otherwise mafia will just go after the checked list knowing that there is probably a bunch of blues, and we know they are innocent.
Thats exactly the idea, making 3 or so small lists will force mafia to risk theyr game on those lists, theres no point in making checklists on large votes just to get as an example for this time: 2/35 mafia voted to lynch inertinept, LARGE LISTS ARE USELESS small lists accomplish:
-force mafia to risk their votes if getting involved in small lists (since the people is pmd from a clean head to vote for a random guy) the head knows who was not pmd to vote the random guy=> high risk to mafia to get involved.
-getting the most benefit for a votelist in the case they dont risk a mafia there: getting 6 or so more people clean for a votelist is HUGE FOR THE TOWN. I think there are already 5 players (vets) that will get clean as a start voting in separated single votelist with their secret vote.
-force mafia to "guess" what are in those votelists, those players can be anything from puregreen to vets wasting mafia hits, to bombers or PE that already used their checklists (In the future lynchs). Moreover mafia doesnt know wich list will be clean or not so they dont know where to attack either. Thats why i ask to make this lists with a mix of players to get cleaned + 1 vet.
-we force mafia to vote for the MOB because: they cant vote smalls lists (they are pmd people so again high risk if you vote for a small lists without getting pmd to do so), they cant abstain/not vote/vote for a single guy because they will be again high suspects.
-Please dyno take note of this plan, this is largely the best way to use our checklists, as LTT pointed rolecheck are nonimportant compared to this: why to rolecheck a guy if i can get 6 guys clean inmediatly? why to checklist a large checklist that will contain at least 1 mafia? And also note that for the first day we can do this with at least 2 PE, since once they use the power they are single townies, mafia cant hit them so risk again to confirm the list.
On March 01 2009 11:12 3clipse wrote: You guys really think we should be using vet sanctuary so early?
So far, 22 people think so.
Well most people are afraid to dissent lest they be labelled Mafia. I'm just trying to give things some second thought (though it's too late to vote it out now anyway).
Anyone that even proposes not to do it (like you) or doesnt vote is a highly mafia suspect. Why wouldnt you want to protect the head that is already confirmed clean? why wouldnt you use the power before we start dying? jeez.
On March 01 2009 09:54 JeeJee wrote: has dyno said anything to anyone for a while it would suck if he's inactive =-=
The last time I posted was only 12 hours ago. I do sleep, and I do have a job.
I'll be doing my best to keep up with everything, but you guys need to understand you've placed a lot of responsibility on me. I'm up to the task, but I'm not going to be able to read this thread nonstop every day. In fact, it would be very helpful if someone could provide occasional summaries of all significant activity.
That said, I've read every page I've missed so far.
People, start switching your votes from inertinept to another list. Let's get a blue_arrow list started (he hasn't responded to our accusations and it's unlikely the vote will shift enough to get him killed). As mentioned before many times, large lists are absolutely useless. It would be much better to get multiple small lists and try to minimizethe number of people actually voting for inertinept.
I change my vote to blue_arrow I highly suggest you either follow suit or get your own lists started. Don't make too many lists, however. ~8 people per list is fine IMO. Don't switch over too much so that inertinept ends up not getting killed. That would be terrible, especially considering we don't have vigilantes.
People, start switching your votes from inertinept to another list. Let's get a blue_arrow list started (he hasn't responded to our accusations and it's unlikely the vote will shift enough to get him killed). As mentioned before many times, large lists are absolutely useless. It would be much better to get multiple small lists and try to minimizethe number of people actually voting for inertinept.
I change my vote to blue_arrow I highly suggest you either follow suit or get your own lists started. Don't make too many lists, however. ~8 people per list is fine IMO. Don't switch over too much so that inertinept ends up not getting killed. That would be terrible, especially considering we don't have vigilantes.
While this is a nice initiative, I don't think it should be done this way. I would much prefer that Dyno picks lists of who should be voting for whom because the mafia are less likely to be able to drop votes onto every list. If the mafia follows/ignores Dyno's instructions, we wind up with some lists which are 100% innocent. If they throw extra people onto random lists, we have nice suspects
People, start switching your votes from inertinept to another list. Let's get a blue_arrow list started (he hasn't responded to our accusations and it's unlikely the vote will shift enough to get him killed). As mentioned before many times, large lists are absolutely useless. It would be much better to get multiple small lists and try to minimizethe number of people actually voting for inertinept.
I change my vote to blue_arrow I highly suggest you either follow suit or get your own lists started. Don't make too many lists, however. ~8 people per list is fine IMO. Don't switch over too much so that inertinept ends up not getting killed. That would be terrible, especially considering we don't have vigilantes.
I ask you not to do so unless you are pmd to do so. Random lists will give mafia the chance to hide there, small lists with pmd people are more valuable.
On March 01 2009 13:18 Dyno. wrote: If your name is not on the following list, you need to PM me and tell me if you're a townie or a power role (and which role).
Lol how the fuck am I being silent I've posted a ton on this forum at every opportunity. Also how the fuck am I on that list I PMed Dyno. at least 6 hours ago and just PMed him again.
Yeesh. Have Dyno. recheck his PMs and check them for timestamp as well because everyone is getting suspicious of me because of this mistake of yours. I role claimed at 3/1 8:12 and after reading this hubbub I roleclaimed again at 13:48. I sent both PMs to Dyno. with a period at the end.
On March 01 2009 13:50 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Lol how the fuck am I being silent I've posted a ton on this forum at every opportunity. Also how the fuck am I on that list I PMed Dyno. at least 6 hours ago and just PMed him again.
Lol my bad i was bolding Rol just over you. He went silent after the day post.
Here are more of my thoughts because I am apparenty being silent only posting 12 times a day.
We've already got inertinept and now I think triflejack is pretty suspicious. He's got 12 posts and is thus very likely a smurf (I dunno how to find the few posts outside of this thread)
Signing up:
"I shall play this game. Sign me please"
After accusations of smurfing occurs:
"I'm guessing these guys are smurfs. Damn them." (How could someone who at this point has about 2 posts and yet know what smurfing means and know who the missing regulars are not be a smurf?)
After PMs go out:
I got my role! MAFIA (Who would want to create drama by jokingly calling themselves mafia other than mafia? Any non mafia would worry about sowing false fears about them and distracting the town. A mafia would probably be trying reverse psychology by appearing to appear secure in their innocence.)
Well after we started lynching inertinept and calling sanctuary on veterans he says:
"Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out"
Another joke post:
"Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me"
Then he votes without supporting sanctuary:
"I vote inertinept"
LTT said: "I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset."
Dunno why LTT would say this but if that's true, trifles are rather benign. Triflejack had nothing in his profile and no posts and thus if he was mafia all that could be used for clues for him is his name. Note that being a smurf doesn't make him more likely to be mafia, but this guy is pretty suspicious for reasons other than that. Also if anyone thinks I'm strangely silent I have more posts in this thread than this guy has in his entire TL career. Also if anyone was in the game where I was mafia you would remember that I was talkative as fuck when I was mafia, if I'm less talkative now it's because I have more friends and more of a life now (went to a concert tonight, got a party for Bisu vs Jaedong that I'm going to later, gotta drive my friend to an ice rink in a few hours).
On March 01 2009 13:50 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Lol how the fuck am I being silent I've posted a ton on this forum at every opportunity. Also how the fuck am I on that list I PMed Dyno. at least 6 hours ago and just PMed him again.
Lol my bad i was bolding Rol just over you. He went silent after the day post.
more likely 4.... Each veteran has 2 votes. One veteran voted for Blue_arrow. One vet on Rice. The other two split their votes between Caller, ydg, zeks, pandabearguy.
On March 01 2009 14:03 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Here are more of my thoughts because I am apparenty being silent only posting 12 times a day.
We've already got inertinept and now I think triflejack is pretty suspicious. He's got 12 posts and is thus very likely a smurf (I dunno how to find the few posts outside of this thread)
Signing up:
"I shall play this game. Sign me please"
After accusations of smurfing occurs:
"I'm guessing these guys are smurfs. Damn them." (How could someone who at this point has about 2 posts and yet know what smurfing means and know who the missing regulars are not be a smurf?)
After PMs go out:
I got my role! MAFIA (Who would want to create drama by jokingly calling themselves mafia other than mafia? Any non mafia would worry about sowing false fears about them and distracting the town. A mafia would probably be trying reverse psychology by appearing to appear secure in their innocence.)
Well after we started lynching inertinept and calling sanctuary on veterans he says:
"Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out"
Another joke post:
"Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me"
Then he votes without supporting sanctuary:
"I vote inertinept"
LTT said: "I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset."
Dunno why LTT would say this but if that's true, trifles are rather benign. Triflejack had nothing in his profile and no posts and thus if he was mafia all that could be used for clues for him is his name. Note that being a smurf doesn't make him more likely to be mafia, but this guy is pretty suspicious for reasons other than that. Also if anyone thinks I'm strangely silent I have more posts in this thread than this guy has in his entire TL career. Also if anyone was in the game where I was mafia you would remember that I was talkative as fuck when I was mafia, if I'm less talkative now it's because I have more friends and more of a life now (went to a concert tonight, got a party for Bisu vs Jaedong that I'm going to later, gotta drive my friend to an ice rink in a few hours).
We were talking about Inertinepts confession post. Inertinept was angry at the 400 red herrings in the post implying that the benign man clue doesn't actually point to him.
I agree that trifle is fishy.
Regarding your PM claims, Dyno appears to be afk at the moment, so it might be a bit until you are cleared either way. Just sit tight.
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
imo we should save sanctuary.
It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x
Yeesh. Have Dyno. recheck his PMs and check them for timestamp as well because everyone is getting suspicious of me because of this mistake of yours. I role claimed at 3/1 8:12 and after reading this hubbub I roleclaimed again at 13:48. I sent both PMs to Dyno. with a period at the end.
Edited for too much caps.
You have indeed PM'd me. I accidentally left you off the list because you sent a lot of PMs and got sidetracked reading them.
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
imo we should save sanctuary.
It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x
this is what doesnt make sense to me though: these extra votes are being put to no good use. we have an overwhelming majority for one lynch and all these votes are doing is showing how many vets we have. plus, we're wasting sanctuary because at this stage of the game it's impossible for mafia to know who the vets are.
Yeesh. Have Dyno. recheck his PMs and check them for timestamp as well because everyone is getting suspicious of me because of this mistake of yours. I role claimed at 3/1 8:12 and after reading this hubbub I roleclaimed again at 13:48. I sent both PMs to Dyno. with a period at the end.
Edited for too much caps.
You have indeed PM'd me. I accidentally left you off the list because you sent a lot of PMs and got sidetracked reading them.
Yeah sorry about PMing too much I'll just put my theories in the thread from now on unless they are too good.
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
imo we should save sanctuary.
It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x
this is what doesnt make sense to me though: these extra votes are being put to no good use. we have an overwhelming majority for one lynch and all these votes are doing is showing how many vets we have. plus, we're wasting sanctuary because at this stage of the game it's impossible for mafia to know who the vets are.
i ono man seems wasteful to me
You're right, all the votes did were confirm who the vets are, which was the whole point. Yes the mafia don't know who the vets are, but up until that point, we didn't either. It is more important to get the town organized than to have a random town. Now there is a conglomerate of individuals whom the town knows they can trust.
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
imo we should save sanctuary.
It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x
this is what doesnt make sense to me though: these extra votes are being put to no good use. we have an overwhelming majority for one lynch and all these votes are doing is showing how many vets we have. plus, we're wasting sanctuary because at this stage of the game it's impossible for mafia to know who the vets are.
i ono man seems wasteful to me
I can't think of a better situation to use sanctuary tbh.
We just established 8 confirmed townies at the cost of them losing their night protection. I can't imagine it would be hard for mafia to kill a few of them just by picking random people to kill at night. This way when our 8 confirmed townies are most vulnerable, they become invincible for a night and mafia don't know who they are and those random hits that would have hit them, are ignored.
All that aside, when is a more beneficial time to use sanctuary? It's not like mafia are going to suddenly target all our medics, or all our Private Eyes in 1 night. This means that any other time we choose to use sanctuary would be a stab in the dark.
What we have chosen is the most methodical choice.
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
imo we should save sanctuary.
It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x
this is what doesnt make sense to me though: these extra votes are being put to no good use. we have an overwhelming majority for one lynch and all these votes are doing is showing how many vets we have. plus, we're wasting sanctuary because at this stage of the game it's impossible for mafia to know who the vets are.
i ono man seems wasteful to me
setting up an 8 people network that cant be killed this night, that are all confirmed townie side and will have an extra life for the rest of the game and mafia doesnt know who they are?????? WASTEFUL? are you kidding me? these extra votes are priceless, plus they can extra vote anytime they want. And you propose not to use santuary vet? santuary vet is the reason the vets can come to extra vote and reveal to dyno.
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
imo we should save sanctuary.
It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x
this is what doesnt make sense to me though: these extra votes are being put to no good use. we have an overwhelming majority for one lynch and all these votes are doing is showing how many vets we have. plus, we're wasting sanctuary because at this stage of the game it's impossible for mafia to know who the vets are.
i ono man seems wasteful to me
You're right, all the votes did were confirm who the vets are, which was the whole point. Yes the mafia don't know who the vets are, but up until that point, we didn't either. It is more important to get the town organized than to have a random town. Now there is a conglomerate of individuals whom the town knows they can trust.
well, i guess it's good because dyno can check the number of people who claim are vets on his list vs the number of actual vets who voted.
at the same time, we lose sanctuary.
i havent sent my role to dyno yet... partly because I don't understand/trust the plan. so say everyone sends their role. the only thing we can confirm is the number of vets we have is greater than or equal to 8. we have no idea how many people are lying, and also... it almost feels like we're cheating, in a way, to openly discuss our roles like this
oh and one more thing: read backlash again. whoever is their don now knows all 8 vets have voted. if he activates backlash, that means EIGHT random mafia get an extra life roflmao
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
imo we should save sanctuary.
It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x
this is what doesnt make sense to me though: these extra votes are being put to no good use. we have an overwhelming majority for one lynch and all these votes are doing is showing how many vets we have. plus, we're wasting sanctuary because at this stage of the game it's impossible for mafia to know who the vets are.
i ono man seems wasteful to me
You're right, all the votes did were confirm who the vets are, which was the whole point. Yes the mafia don't know who the vets are, but up until that point, we didn't either. It is more important to get the town organized than to have a random town. Now there is a conglomerate of individuals whom the town knows they can trust.
well, i guess it's good because dyno can check the number of people who claim are vets on his list vs the number of actual vets who voted.
at the same time, we lose sanctuary.
i havent sent my role to dyno yet... partly because I don't understand/trust the plan. so say everyone sends their role. the only thing we can confirm is the number of vets we have is greater than or equal to 8. we have no idea how many people are lying, and also... it almost feels like we're cheating, in a way, to openly discuss our roles like this
We have a 100% confirmed group of vets who knows anc can coordinate everyone's role to maximum efficiency. They still have to root out any fake blues, fake townies, and those who don't send their PM.
I just don't see what is so difficult to understand here...
On March 01 2009 14:46 d_so wrote: edit: double posted.
oh and one more thing: read backlash again. whoever is their don now knows all 8 vets have voted. if he activates backlash, that means EIGHT random mafia get an extra life roflmao
That means very very little. We have no vigilantes so it only protects them from bombs for that night. Our main killing weapon is lynches.
Edit: It doesn't even protect them from bombs as the bombs aren't targetting them anymore, although I don't know if it moves existing bombs or just reroutes placed bombs...
Backlash: On the following day whenever a player uses a special ability it works as if the mafia used the ability on the player instead. Quick summary: clue checks do nothing, medic covers random mafia players, veterans vote for their targets but random mafia will gain extra lives, private eyes are revealed to mafia or their vote check goes to show how many private eyes voted for the player, and mad hatters place a bomb on themselves. These happen if and only if the players in question use their abilities and no player will be notified of the change until the day after.
On March 01 2009 14:46 d_so wrote: edit: double posted.
oh and one more thing: read backlash again. whoever is their don now knows all 8 vets have voted. if he activates backlash, that means EIGHT random mafia get an extra life roflmao
That means very very little. We have no vigilantes so it only protects them from bombs for that night. Our main killing weapon is lynches.
Edit: It doesn't even protect them from bombs as the bombs aren't targetting them anymore, although I don't know if it moves existing bombs or just reroutes placed bombs...
wait so does that mean that backlash will only give these random mafia an extra life for one night? or do they get to keep it for the rest of the game?
On March 01 2009 14:55 d_so wrote: adding to my previous post:
Backlash: On the following day whenever a player uses a special ability it works as if the mafia used the ability on the player instead. Quick summary: clue checks do nothing, medic covers random mafia players, veterans vote for their targets but random mafia will gain extra lives, private eyes are revealed to mafia or their vote check goes to show how many private eyes voted for the player, and mad hatters place a bomb on themselves. These happen if and only if the players in question use their abilities and no player will be notified of the change until the day after.
Night lives... We aren't killing at night. An extra life doesn't prevent Veterans from being lynched once...
On March 01 2009 14:55 d_so wrote: adding to my previous post:
Backlash: On the following day whenever a player uses a special ability it works as if the mafia used the ability on the player instead. Quick summary: clue checks do nothing, medic covers random mafia players, veterans vote for their targets but random mafia will gain extra lives, private eyes are revealed to mafia or their vote check goes to show how many private eyes voted for the player, and mad hatters place a bomb on themselves. These happen if and only if the players in question use their abilities and no player will be notified of the change until the day after.
Night lives... We aren't killing at night. An extra life doesn't prevent Veterans from being lynched once...
this is nonsense how can backslash affect the ability that is not triggered? i mean the vets choose all to extra-vote not to gain the extra life. Ergo no mafia wins an extra life even this night.
can anyone confirm/explain wtf this backlash thing does for vets who use their votes. does mafia get extra lives for one day or permanently? also, these mafia who do have extra lives... if they are lynched, will they show up as red but they won't die??
On March 01 2009 14:55 d_so wrote: adding to my previous post:
Backlash: On the following day whenever a player uses a special ability it works as if the mafia used the ability on the player instead. Quick summary: clue checks do nothing, medic covers random mafia players, veterans vote for their targets but random mafia will gain extra lives, private eyes are revealed to mafia or their vote check goes to show how many private eyes voted for the player, and mad hatters place a bomb on themselves. These happen if and only if the players in question use their abilities and no player will be notified of the change until the day after.
Night lives... We aren't killing at night. An extra life doesn't prevent Veterans from being lynched once...
this is nonsense how can backslash affect the ability that is not triggered? i mean the vets choose all to extra-vote not to gain the extra life. Ergo no mafia wins an extra life even this night.
naw dude... the ability that gets "backlashed" is the actual extra VOTE of the veteran. in other words, vets vote --> backlash --> mafia gets lives. because the active ability of a vetis this vote; the extra life is passive.
the question is how long they get this extra life for
On March 01 2009 15:43 d_so wrote: i would like to change my vote
## I will keep my vote Inertinept and rescind my vote for town power sanctuary veteran
Backlash is activated THE FOLLOWING DAY. So day 1's actions can't possibly be backlashed because the earliest possible day a backlash can occur is day 2.
On March 01 2009 04:17 triflejack wrote: Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me
oczec v2.0
Edit: AND EVERYONE STOP FUCKING VOTING FOR INTERT, YOU ARE MAKING IT EASY TO SPREAD THE VOTES.
GET LIKE 5 PEOPLE ON SOMEONE ELSE SO WE CAN VOTE CHECK A LIST.
##I Change my Vote from inertinept to Malongo
This is very important, otherwise list checks are useless day 2. Try to get like 2 lists with 5ish people so we can list check them. we can have 2 confirmed lists by tomorrow if we play this, or a mafia hunt or 2 going on.
Unhappy with this attention? Make sure you pm Dyno. with your role. Even if you are a townie, you are helping us tighten the vise on the Mafia. Additionally, sending a PM to say that you refuse to reveal is silly...
On March 01 2009 14:03 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Here are more of my thoughts because I am apparenty being silent only posting 12 times a day.
We've already got inertinept and now I think triflejack is pretty suspicious. He's got 12 posts and is thus very likely a smurf (I dunno how to find the few posts outside of this thread)
Signing up:
"I shall play this game. Sign me please"
After accusations of smurfing occurs:
"I'm guessing these guys are smurfs. Damn them." (How could someone who at this point has about 2 posts and yet know what smurfing means and know who the missing regulars are not be a smurf?)
After PMs go out:
I got my role! MAFIA (Who would want to create drama by jokingly calling themselves mafia other than mafia? Any non mafia would worry about sowing false fears about them and distracting the town. A mafia would probably be trying reverse psychology by appearing to appear secure in their innocence.)
Well after we started lynching inertinept and calling sanctuary on veterans he says:
"Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out"
Another joke post:
"Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me"
Then he votes without supporting sanctuary:
"I vote inertinept"
LTT said: "I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset."
Dunno why LTT would say this but if that's true, trifles are rather benign. Triflejack had nothing in his profile and no posts and thus if he was mafia all that could be used for clues for him is his name. Note that being a smurf doesn't make him more likely to be mafia, but this guy is pretty suspicious for reasons other than that. Also if anyone thinks I'm strangely silent I have more posts in this thread than this guy has in his entire TL career. Also if anyone was in the game where I was mafia you would remember that I was talkative as fuck when I was mafia, if I'm less talkative now it's because I have more friends and more of a life now (went to a concert tonight, got a party for Bisu vs Jaedong that I'm going to later, gotta drive my friend to an ice rink in a few hours).
I like your thoughts on triflejack I also like the clues linking to Rice. I think we should keep these in mind for later days. Perhaps we should try to get rice on a list check or have a PE rolecheck him?
On March 01 2009 14:21 Monoxide wrote: each veteran has 2 votes given 1 in the form of "veteran" and 1 in the form of themselves
right, that means we have 8 vets.
i really wish the vets hadn't used up all their extra votes today. i mean, yeah, it's nice you have that extra vote, but now mafia knows there are at least 8 vets they have to contend with.
also, we are using our town skill, sanctuary, an ability we can only use ONCE per game... on the very first turn? Why? If anything, use a paramedic to watch over dyno tonight, and since he should already know who the other vets are, if he were to die the next next turn, just transfer the list over to the next vet.
imo we should save sanctuary.
It also protects all of the vets who don't have the extra night life tonight. This is the perfect time to confirm them. That is why they are all voting. This was all part of the plan outlined like 10 pages ago. :x
this is what doesnt make sense to me though: these extra votes are being put to no good use. we have an overwhelming majority for one lynch and all these votes are doing is showing how many vets we have. plus, we're wasting sanctuary because at this stage of the game it's impossible for mafia to know who the vets are.
i ono man seems wasteful to me
I can't think of a better situation to use sanctuary tbh.
We just established 8 confirmed townies at the cost of them losing their night protection. I can't imagine it would be hard for mafia to kill a few of them just by picking random people to kill at night. This way when our 8 confirmed townies are most vulnerable, they become invincible for a night and mafia don't know who they are and those random hits that would have hit them, are ignored.
All that aside, when is a more beneficial time to use sanctuary? It's not like mafia are going to suddenly target all our medics, or all our Private Eyes in 1 night. This means that any other time we choose to use sanctuary would be a stab in the dark.
What we have chosen is the most methodical choice.
You forgot another reason, backlash can't be used tonight, however after today it can be used. That means all the Veterans are using their vote tonight, and are protected. If they used votes on other nights they could be backlashed into mafia lives. That can't happen tonight.
Another thought, if a Vet gets his vote backlashed into a a mafia life does it carry over to the next days, or only for that night? If so, does it protect from a mad hatter? That's the only thing that can actually attack/kill mafia.
hmm, why are people voting for me... i think the sharp man clue would be a little too obvious if it actually pointed towards me especially you redtooth; why are you always targeting me in every post as well, i've already pmed dyno
dts can also rolecheck me if they really really want to, but i suggest they don't, as it would be a waste
d_so is way more suspicious, wouldn't you think? how can anybody NOT understand the plan?? it seems as though he is intentionally spreading disccord and uncertainty
anyways, since we aren't suppose to vote inertinept anymore, and to further prove my innocence, I'll start another small vote list and vote for the second most likely mafia: ## I vote to lynch d_so and I vote for Sanctuary - Veteran
On March 01 2009 14:03 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Here are more of my thoughts because I am apparenty being silent only posting 12 times a day.
We've already got inertinept and now I think triflejack is pretty suspicious. He's got 12 posts and is thus very likely a smurf (I dunno how to find the few posts outside of this thread)
Signing up:
"I shall play this game. Sign me please"
After accusations of smurfing occurs:
"I'm guessing these guys are smurfs. Damn them." (How could someone who at this point has about 2 posts and yet know what smurfing means and know who the missing regulars are not be a smurf?)
After PMs go out:
I got my role! MAFIA (Who would want to create drama by jokingly calling themselves mafia other than mafia? Any non mafia would worry about sowing false fears about them and distracting the town. A mafia would probably be trying reverse psychology by appearing to appear secure in their innocence.)
Well after we started lynching inertinept and calling sanctuary on veterans he says:
"Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out"
Another joke post:
"Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me"
Then he votes without supporting sanctuary:
"I vote inertinept"
LTT said: "I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset."
Dunno why LTT would say this but if that's true, trifles are rather benign. Triflejack had nothing in his profile and no posts and thus if he was mafia all that could be used for clues for him is his name. Note that being a smurf doesn't make him more likely to be mafia, but this guy is pretty suspicious for reasons other than that. Also if anyone thinks I'm strangely silent I have more posts in this thread than this guy has in his entire TL career. Also if anyone was in the game where I was mafia you would remember that I was talkative as fuck when I was mafia, if I'm less talkative now it's because I have more friends and more of a life now (went to a concert tonight, got a party for Bisu vs Jaedong that I'm going to later, gotta drive my friend to an ice rink in a few hours).
I like your thoughts on triflejack I also like the clues linking to Rice. I think we should keep these in mind for later days. Perhaps we should try to get rice on a list check or have a PE rolecheck him?
On March 01 2009 14:03 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Here are more of my thoughts because I am apparenty being silent only posting 12 times a day.
We've already got inertinept and now I think triflejack is pretty suspicious. He's got 12 posts and is thus very likely a smurf (I dunno how to find the few posts outside of this thread)
Signing up:
"I shall play this game. Sign me please"
After accusations of smurfing occurs:
"I'm guessing these guys are smurfs. Damn them." (How could someone who at this point has about 2 posts and yet know what smurfing means and know who the missing regulars are not be a smurf?)
After PMs go out:
I got my role! MAFIA (Who would want to create drama by jokingly calling themselves mafia other than mafia? Any non mafia would worry about sowing false fears about them and distracting the town. A mafia would probably be trying reverse psychology by appearing to appear secure in their innocence.)
Well after we started lynching inertinept and calling sanctuary on veterans he says:
"Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out"
Another joke post:
"Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me"
Then he votes without supporting sanctuary:
"I vote inertinept"
LTT said: "I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset."
Dunno why LTT would say this but if that's true, trifles are rather benign. Triflejack had nothing in his profile and no posts and thus if he was mafia all that could be used for clues for him is his name. Note that being a smurf doesn't make him more likely to be mafia, but this guy is pretty suspicious for reasons other than that. Also if anyone thinks I'm strangely silent I have more posts in this thread than this guy has in his entire TL career. Also if anyone was in the game where I was mafia you would remember that I was talkative as fuck when I was mafia, if I'm less talkative now it's because I have more friends and more of a life now (went to a concert tonight, got a party for Bisu vs Jaedong that I'm going to later, gotta drive my friend to an ice rink in a few hours).
I like your thoughts on triflejack I also like the clues linking to Rice. I think we should keep these in mind for later days. Perhaps we should try to get rice on a list check or have a PE rolecheck him?
Wow I didn't even see that huge post the first time but I'll just say what's on my mind
1. I'm townie
2. Hating on smurfs was a joke, since its so obvious my account's new
3. My role post was before PM anyway, I don't know about you guys but I don't think roles were out then
4. Jokes are fun
5. I didn't read how sanctuary works, but its going to pass anyway
6. Benign? Seriously?
7. In roughly 3 hours, Jaedong will expose the false bonjwa and deliver an assrape no protoss can recover from
lol that is true, but I think its odd that he would just join for a mafia game, but yeah you could be right. He could of just joined for this mafia game, right after the discussion of mafia veterans smurfing to avoid Ace style persecution :D it could be coincidence or causal, both are possible.
On March 01 2009 14:03 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Here are more of my thoughts because I am apparenty being silent only posting 12 times a day.
We've already got inertinept and now I think triflejack is pretty suspicious. He's got 12 posts and is thus very likely a smurf (I dunno how to find the few posts outside of this thread)
Signing up:
"I shall play this game. Sign me please"
After accusations of smurfing occurs:
"I'm guessing these guys are smurfs. Damn them." (How could someone who at this point has about 2 posts and yet know what smurfing means and know who the missing regulars are not be a smurf?)
After PMs go out:
I got my role! MAFIA (Who would want to create drama by jokingly calling themselves mafia other than mafia? Any non mafia would worry about sowing false fears about them and distracting the town. A mafia would probably be trying reverse psychology by appearing to appear secure in their innocence.)
Well after we started lynching inertinept and calling sanctuary on veterans he says:
"Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out"
Another joke post:
"Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me"
Then he votes without supporting sanctuary:
"I vote inertinept"
LTT said: "I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset."
Dunno why LTT would say this but if that's true, trifles are rather benign. Triflejack had nothing in his profile and no posts and thus if he was mafia all that could be used for clues for him is his name. Note that being a smurf doesn't make him more likely to be mafia, but this guy is pretty suspicious for reasons other than that. Also if anyone thinks I'm strangely silent I have more posts in this thread than this guy has in his entire TL career. Also if anyone was in the game where I was mafia you would remember that I was talkative as fuck when I was mafia, if I'm less talkative now it's because I have more friends and more of a life now (went to a concert tonight, got a party for Bisu vs Jaedong that I'm going to later, gotta drive my friend to an ice rink in a few hours).
I like your thoughts on triflejack I also like the clues linking to Rice. I think we should keep these in mind for later days. Perhaps we should try to get rice on a list check or have a PE rolecheck him?
Wow I didn't even see that huge post the first time but I'll just say what's on my mind
1. I'm townie
2. Hating on smurfs was a joke, since its so obvious my account's new
3. My role post was before PM anyway, I don't know about you guys but I don't think roles were out then
4. Jokes are fun
5. I didn't read how sanctuary works, but its going to pass anyway
6. Benign? Seriously?
7. In roughly 3 hours, Jaedong will expose the false bonjwa and deliver an assrape no protoss can recover from
plus he's a Romanian...jk jk please dont ban me T.T
well i dont really know about the plan... im just not sure if we should depend everything we have just on 1 person. I suggest backup just in case dyno should fail, because hes too important to fail right now. As to what the backup is i have no clue
But if i missed some critical information please tell
oh and jaedong will get assraped so deep and hard tonight that the rest of jaedong will be pulled into a new Grand Canyon that was his asscrack... afterwards, it'll take at least an year for him to re-inflate out of his own ass
On March 01 2009 14:03 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Here are more of my thoughts because I am apparenty being silent only posting 12 times a day.
We've already got inertinept and now I think triflejack is pretty suspicious. He's got 12 posts and is thus very likely a smurf (I dunno how to find the few posts outside of this thread)
Signing up:
"I shall play this game. Sign me please"
After accusations of smurfing occurs:
"I'm guessing these guys are smurfs. Damn them." (How could someone who at this point has about 2 posts and yet know what smurfing means and know who the missing regulars are not be a smurf?)
After PMs go out:
I got my role! MAFIA (Who would want to create drama by jokingly calling themselves mafia other than mafia? Any non mafia would worry about sowing false fears about them and distracting the town. A mafia would probably be trying reverse psychology by appearing to appear secure in their innocence.)
Well after we started lynching inertinept and calling sanctuary on veterans he says:
"Since we have to lynch someone without justification anyway, let's just find a Bisu fanboy and kick them out"
Another joke post:
"Can we torture inertinept or threaten his family before he dies so we get the other mafia names? This straight-to-lynching thing seems inefficient to me"
Then he votes without supporting sanctuary:
"I vote inertinept"
LTT said: "I think he believes that the clue that caught him wasn't actually pointing to him, which is why he was upset."
Dunno why LTT would say this but if that's true, trifles are rather benign. Triflejack had nothing in his profile and no posts and thus if he was mafia all that could be used for clues for him is his name. Note that being a smurf doesn't make him more likely to be mafia, but this guy is pretty suspicious for reasons other than that. Also if anyone thinks I'm strangely silent I have more posts in this thread than this guy has in his entire TL career. Also if anyone was in the game where I was mafia you would remember that I was talkative as fuck when I was mafia, if I'm less talkative now it's because I have more friends and more of a life now (went to a concert tonight, got a party for Bisu vs Jaedong that I'm going to later, gotta drive my friend to an ice rink in a few hours).
I like your thoughts on triflejack I also like the clues linking to Rice. I think we should keep these in mind for later days. Perhaps we should try to get rice on a list check or have a PE rolecheck him?
Wow I didn't even see that huge post the first time but I'll just say what's on my mind
1. I'm townie
2. Hating on smurfs was a joke, since its so obvious my account's new
3. My role post was before PM anyway, I don't know about you guys but I don't think roles were out then
4. Jokes are fun
5. I didn't read how sanctuary works, but its going to pass anyway
6. Benign? Seriously?
7. In roughly 3 hours, Jaedong will expose the false bonjwa and deliver an assrape no protoss can recover from
plus he's a Romanian...jk jk please dont ban me T.T
well i dont really know about the plan... im just not sure if we should depend everything we have just on 1 person. I suggest backup just in case dyno should fail, because hes too important to fail right now. As to what the backup is i have no clue
But if i missed some critical information please tell
Romanians have the hottest sex. Google is your friend
Unhappy with this attention? Make sure you pm Dyno. with your role. Even if you are a townie, you are helping us tighten the vise on the Mafia. Additionally, sending a PM to say that you refuse to reveal is silly...
Edit: Typo on Before. Haven't slept for 21.5 hours.
Unhappy with this attention? Make sure you pm Dyno. with your role. Even if you are a townie, you are helping us tighten the vise on the Mafia. Additionally, sending a PM to say that you refuse to reveal is silly...
Edit: Typo on Before. Haven't slept for 21.5 hours.
Vote for inertinept and veteran sanctuary I only skimmed the thread - fucking spammers XD But the veteran sactuary is so all the vets can be rolechecked(by using vet vote) this night without danger? Shouldn't we use a non final count for that instead of wasting a town ability?
Other veterans: Please do not remove your extra vote from the person I've assigned to you. We still have unconfirmed veterans, and in order to avoid confusion I'd like everyone to stay on the person I assigned them until the final tally.
On March 01 2009 20:41 MasterOfChaos wrote: Vote for inertinept and veteran sanctuary I only skimmed the thread - fucking spammers XD But the veteran sactuary is so all the vets can be rolechecked(by using vet vote) this night without danger? Shouldn't we use a non final count for that instead of wasting a town ability?
Well it's also to protect Dyno who's publicly a vet, and there's also the risk that the Day ends before we've done a non final vote count.
Holy crap a lot happened while I was sleeping. 8 vets is a lot and would explain why Chuiu is keeping role counts hidden (to make it more interesting).
to blue_arrow: Don't worry about being lynched. I only voted for you to get a small-to-medium sized list on you so we can votelist check and you were the first name to pop into my mind. to dyno: Is above plan ok? I also suggest we move whoever voted for malongo onto this list, too. to rice: wtf are you doing. You have heat on you yet you don't send a PM to dyno. It's hard for me to imagine you being mafia because mafia aren't that stupid but you are slowly getting more and more suspicious.
One more thing: Did anybody else notice how Rice and blue_arrow shut up for the longest time and then suddenly posted within 5 minutes of each other (both first posts after the start of the game). Either this was a huge coincidence or they were mafia on irc planning posts and 'faking inactivity'.
On March 01 2009 22:05 Phrujbaz wrote: I vote to lynch Dyno. and for sanctuary on veterans.
It seems there are plenty of mafia this game.
Bold that janx so its easier for Chuiu. I believe there's only 10 mafia (9+1 Don) this game due to the fact they have 5 killpower. Unless Chuiu is pulling a quick one on us and giving .25 killpower to each mafia.
oh sweet, activity seems to have slowed down. I think we did a lot and just have to wait for voting to post now, we don't have much else to work with. We need the rest of the Vet confirmation before we can move forward.
-_- lots of ambiguously worded rules in this game.
1.) Mafia killing power, or even number of mafia. since neither the formula for this or the number is given to us, we just have to guess. this kind of throws a monkeywrench in our centralized list plan because we don't have a firm grasp of how many people are lying.
this is why i don't get our plan: this game is different from others because we don't have a firm number of roles, even for mafia. so yeah, in a sense our plan is kinda good because we have eight confirmed people. but that still leaves 52 people that can be lying-- this is in contrast to other games, where we can confirm claimed roles vs # of roles available, or even # of blues+greens vs # of reds
2.) backlash: Chuiu can you please explain wtf this does for vet votes. does mafia get to keep their extra lives forever?
On March 02 2009 03:52 d_so wrote: -_- lots of ambiguously worded rules in this game.
1.) Mafia killing power, or even number of mafia. since neither the formula for this or the number is given to us, we just have to guess. this kind of throws a monkeywrench in our centralized list plan because we don't have a firm grasp of how many people are lying.
this is why i don't get our plan: this game is different from others because we don't have a firm number of roles, even for mafia. so yeah, in a sense our plan is kinda good because we have eight confirmed people. but that still leaves 52 people that can be lying-- this is in contrast to other games, where we can confirm claimed roles vs # of roles available, or even # of blues+greens vs # of reds
Here is one reason we have the plan oriented this way: Look at the private eye abilities. They can rolecheck AND votecheck if they correctly guess the role of the target. This becomes easier if we have a roleclaim for everyone.
Here is another reason: We can verify blue roleclaims if the player can't do what we ask them to. For example, let's say the mafia pretend to be a paramedic. If we assign a fake paramedic to protect someone, the mafia COULD decide not to hit that person, but then the protection worked for the cycle and the fake paramedic doesn't gain any trust. They could also decide to hit that person anyways, but then we oust a mafioso. Finally, they could hide a hit somewhere (making it look like they just double stacked hits on that target), but they're wasting KP (making that mafioso effectively a medic for the cycle anyway).
The mafia cannot 100% fake any role except townie. However, townies will also get the least trust and information out of the town circle unless they are verified via rolecheck/votecheck/medic save.
On March 02 2009 04:32 ahswtini wrote: What if the person a medic is watching gets doubled or tripled, the person will have died, and the medic won't be able to do anything about it?
I covered that with the "hide a hit somewhere". Basically, it forces the mafia to waste KP overcoming medic protection. The medic doesn't get any extra trust, but if that hit is missing, then the medic doesn't lose any trust either. It just means that a hit was stopped, which is very useful to the town.
well, i guess it's better than nothing. i mean i understand what you're saying qatol, and really, what you're saying is obvious. what i was questioning is the effectiveness of process of elimination in a situation where you don't know the exact count of the roles, or even how many mafia there are. veterans, because of the vet vote, you can confirm. others will be far more difficult.
but even though i dont like this plan, it's better than no plan i guess. i really think this game is going to come down to clue/behavioral analysis though, not heuristic list checking/etc.
Yeah, I think that's the way Mafia games should be; they should depend more on clue analysis and behavior observation. But hey, if you can get substantiating evidence from list checks and vote checks that you know are trustworthy, that'll make it even easier to catch Mafia. So, right now, I guess we're just finishing up on establishing a list of people that can be trusted.
On March 02 2009 04:40 d_so wrote: well, i guess it's better than nothing. i mean i understand what you're saying qatol, and really, what you're saying is obvious. what i was questioning is the effectiveness of process of elimination in a situation where you don't know the exact count of the roles, or even how many mafia there are. veterans, because of the vet vote, you can confirm. others will be far more difficult.
but even though i dont like this plan, it's better than no plan i guess. i really think this game is going to come down to clue/behavioral analysis though, not heuristic list checking/etc.
Agreed. However, this is something we can do now when there isn't that much data to analyze (especially with the clues). Besides, this isn't really a process of elimination so much as a "let's force the mafia to make a stand on something and hope we get lucky and trap a few." Nobody can be confirmed unless they get rolechecked, cleared through a votecheck, medic saved, or they do something associated with their role that the mafia can't fake.
The strength of heuristic list checking might surprise you. Check out BC's mafia game if you don't believe me (just about every hit except Ver came off a heuristic list check).
On March 01 2009 22:07 redtooth wrote: Holy crap a lot happened while I was sleeping. 8 vets is a lot and would explain why Chuiu is keeping role counts hidden (to make it more interesting).
to blue_arrow: Don't worry about being lynched. I only voted for you to get a small-to-medium sized list on you so we can votelist check and you were the first name to pop into my mind. to dyno: Is above plan ok? I also suggest we move whoever voted for malongo onto this list, too. to rice: wtf are you doing. You have heat on you yet you don't send a PM to dyno. It's hard for me to imagine you being mafia because mafia aren't that stupid but you are slowly getting more and more suspicious.
One more thing: Did anybody else notice how Rice and blue_arrow shut up for the longest time and then suddenly posted within 5 minutes of each other (both first posts after the start of the game). Either this was a huge coincidence or they were mafia on irc planning posts and 'faking inactivity'.
uhhh I sent a PM to dyno ages ago, not sure what you're talking about
in fact, if you want to go back however many pages dyno's first post about PMing roles is, my name wont be on the list of people who haven't since roles yet I can guarantee that...
On March 02 2009 03:52 d_so wrote: -_- lots of ambiguously worded rules in this game.
1.) Mafia killing power, or even number of mafia. since neither the formula for this or the number is given to us, we just have to guess. this kind of throws a monkeywrench in our centralized list plan because we don't have a firm grasp of how many people are lying.
this is why i don't get our plan: this game is different from others because we don't have a firm number of roles, even for mafia. so yeah, in a sense our plan is kinda good because we have eight confirmed people. but that still leaves 52 people that can be lying-- this is in contrast to other games, where we can confirm claimed roles vs # of roles available, or even # of blues+greens vs # of reds
2.) backlash: Chuiu can you please explain wtf this does for vet votes. does mafia get to keep their extra lives forever?
Mafia killing power is like normal Mafia # / 2 rounded up.
as for backlash (Chuiu can correct me if i'm wrong) but it is a one time use that lasts for the duration of that night period
Im gonna say this one last time: Everyone that is voting for a random guy instead of inerpinept and is town aligned is playing wrong unless they are PMD to do so. Please if you are townie vote inertinept unless pmd from dyno. because you look more like a mafia evading a checklist.
On March 02 2009 11:40 malongo wrote: Im gonna say this one last time: Everyone that is voting for a random guy instead of inerpinept and is town aligned is playing wrong unless they are PMD to do so. Please if you are townie vote inertinept unless pmd from dyno. because you look more like a mafia evading a checklist.
Dyno. hasn't PMed anyone yet though or even told us we all need to vote for inertinept until he sends it out so I don't think its totally suspicious but I will be keeping my vote on inertinept until I receive word from Dyno.
On March 02 2009 11:40 malongo wrote: Im gonna say this one last time: Everyone that is voting for a random guy instead of inerpinept and is town aligned is playing wrong unless they are PMD to do so. Please if you are townie vote inertinept unless pmd from dyno. because you look more like a mafia evading a checklist.
Dyno. hasn't PMed anyone yet though or even told us we all need to vote for inertinept until he sends it out so I don't think its totally suspicious but I will be keeping my vote on inertinept until I receive word from Dyno.
On March 02 2009 11:40 malongo wrote: Im gonna say this one last time: Everyone that is voting for a random guy instead of inerpinept and is town aligned is playing wrong unless they are PMD to do so. Please if you are townie vote inertinept unless pmd from dyno. because you look more like a mafia evading a checklist.
Dyno. hasn't PMed anyone yet though or even told us we all need to vote for inertinept until he sends it out so I don't think its totally suspicious but I will be keeping my vote on inertinept until I receive word from Dyno.
Theres a reason why dyno. is silent.
The main one being this:
On March 01 2009 21:42 Dyno. wrote: I'm going to sleep now, and I work a 9 hour shift tomorrow. I won't be home until around 8:30 PST.
He won't be online for another hour and 20 minutes or so.
On March 02 2009 11:40 malongo wrote: Im gonna say this one last time: Everyone that is voting for a random guy instead of inerpinept and is town aligned is playing wrong unless they are PMD to do so. Please if you are townie vote inertinept unless pmd from dyno. because you look more like a mafia evading a checklist.
Dyno. hasn't PMed anyone yet though or even told us we all need to vote for inertinept until he sends it out so I don't think its totally suspicious but I will be keeping my vote on inertinept until I receive word from Dyno.
On March 02 2009 03:52 d_so wrote: -_- lots of ambiguously worded rules in this game.
1.) Mafia killing power, or even number of mafia. since neither the formula for this or the number is given to us, we just have to guess. this kind of throws a monkeywrench in our centralized list plan because we don't have a firm grasp of how many people are lying.
this is why i don't get our plan: this game is different from others because we don't have a firm number of roles, even for mafia. so yeah, in a sense our plan is kinda good because we have eight confirmed people. but that still leaves 52 people that can be lying-- this is in contrast to other games, where we can confirm claimed roles vs # of roles available, or even # of blues+greens vs # of reds
2.) backlash: Chuiu can you please explain wtf this does for vet votes. does mafia get to keep their extra lives forever?
Backlash does nothing to votes but for each veteran in the game mafia gain an extra night life that one night. IE: its like sticking medics on mafia for one night.
I will attempt to re-write the roles tonight to make them more clear. Moving to night soon.
Alright, at the request of the others: I change my vote to inertinept Still stand by my statement that we should have many smaller lists, even if Dyno. doesn't directly order it. A votecheck on the main list is absolutely useless. There is no way we could sift through all of the ~50 people who will vote for inertinept.
edit: Few formatting errors using UBB code. No content changed.
I just got home, but I'm going back out with some friends (sorry not letting an internet game of mafia interfere with my social life). I have a bunch of PMs that I'll read when I get back.
Everyone that has a significant action to play tonight has already received their instructions from me.
Good thing 11 confirmed veterans in the inner circle is simply beautiful. Some notes: -Mafia didnt gave us the chance to do "smart" checklists, so i think we can posibly make one s "bad" checklist just to know how many mafia is hidding inside the town. -Bombers pay attention to dyno. Most probably bombing non insiders: redtooth Phrujbaz Caller motbob RebirthOfLeGenD CynanMachae chaoser blue_arrow triflejack -Please put the bombs tonight, if you die without the bomb then we will lost it. Backslash can be a problem, but mafia cant hit all the bombers tonight and this forces mafia to use the ability and the bombs can be replaced next day. -We need to start lynching non voters! they are mostly mafia they are 7 people LTT should come with an accurate list soon. weeeee.
On March 02 2009 14:09 malongo wrote: Good thing 11 confirmed veterans in the inner circle is simply beautiful. Some notes: -Mafia didnt gave us the chance to do "smart" checklists, so i think we can posibly make one s "bad" checklist just to know how many mafia is hidding inside the town. -Bombers pay attention to dyno. Most probably bombing non insiders: redtooth Phrujbaz Caller motbob RebirthOfLeGenD CynanMachae chaoser blue_arrow triflejack -Please put the bombs tonight, if you die without the bomb then we will lost it. Backslash can be a problem, but mafia cant hit all the bombers tonight and this forces mafia to use the ability and the bombs can be replaced next day. -We need to start lynching non voters! they are mostly mafia they are 7 people LTT should come with an accurate list soon. weeeee.
wait why do you want to kill me i haven't done anything wrong?
On March 02 2009 14:25 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: bloodycobbler said mafia killing power was /2 rounded up so that means mafia has to be 9 or 10 since KP is 5 right?
Incorrect. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Chuiu has more mafia than 10 but capped KP at 5 to keep the mafia from cleaning us out too quickly.
On March 02 2009 14:25 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: bloodycobbler said mafia killing power was /2 rounded up so that means mafia has to be 9 or 10 since KP is 5 right?
Incorrect. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Chuiu has more mafia than 10 but capped KP at 5 to keep the mafia from cleaning us out too quickly.
"Mafia killing power is like normal Mafia # / 2 rounded up."
On March 02 2009 14:25 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: bloodycobbler said mafia killing power was /2 rounded up so that means mafia has to be 9 or 10 since KP is 5 right?
Incorrect. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Chuiu has more mafia than 10 but capped KP at 5 to keep the mafia from cleaning us out too quickly.
"Mafia killing power is like normal Mafia # / 2 rounded up."
Look at TL mafia 2. 20 mafia, KP = mafia/2 rounded up. Max KP 9. BC never said if there is a max or not.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And the game started with one mafia giving himself up way too easily. Here's to you, inertinept!
Also, Veteran's gain protection tonight and are immune to all hits.
On March 02 2009 15:11 Scaramanga wrote: O sick just got back from school to some good news! And having 11 veterans is just crazy, should the vets come public mabey?
Yeah good news about both vet sanctuary and scoring a mafia kill on Day 1. If we get lucky tonight and score another hit via mad hatter, town will be significantly ahead.
I don't think the vets should come out publicly yet. There is nothing to gain. I'm sure behind the scenes dyno. is organizing them into a formidable town circle. If there starts to be heat on a vet (people start seriously voting to lynch the vet) then the vet comes out and gets a confirmation from dyno. Until then, they should remain in the shadows until dyno. is killed.
My biggest concern actually is the fact that there are 11 vets. To keep the game balanced, I'm sure Chuiu offset this huge number of veteran by reducing the number of other special roles (PE, Detective, Paramedic, Mad Hatter). There is a possibility that there is one of each. As much as having that many veterans and a solid early town circle created is enjoyable, I would much rather have had more PEs. I believe keeping the PE(s) alive will be the town's #1 priority throughout the game. Then again, maybe Chuiu just increased the number of vets to offset the fact that PE skills are now limited in usage and we have the same number of PE we always do.
On March 02 2009 14:09 malongo wrote: Good thing 11 confirmed veterans in the inner circle is simply beautiful. Some notes: -Mafia didnt gave us the chance to do "smart" checklists, so i think we can posibly make one s "bad" checklist just to know how many mafia is hidding inside the town. -Bombers pay attention to dyno. Most probably bombing non insiders: redtooth Phrujbaz Caller motbob RebirthOfLeGenD CynanMachae chaoser blue_arrow triflejack -Please put the bombs tonight, if you die without the bomb then we will lost it. Backslash can be a problem, but mafia cant hit all the bombers tonight and this forces mafia to use the ability and the bombs can be replaced next day. -We need to start lynching non voters! they are mostly mafia they are 7 people LTT should come with an accurate list soon. weeeee.
On March 02 2009 14:09 malongo wrote: Good thing 11 confirmed veterans in the inner circle is simply beautiful. Some notes: -Mafia didnt gave us the chance to do "smart" checklists, so i think we can posibly make one s "bad" checklist just to know how many mafia is hidding inside the town. -Bombers pay attention to dyno. Most probably bombing non insiders: redtooth Phrujbaz Caller motbob RebirthOfLeGenD CynanMachae chaoser blue_arrow triflejack -Please put the bombs tonight, if you die without the bomb then we will lost it. Backslash can be a problem, but mafia cant hit all the bombers tonight and this forces mafia to use the ability and the bombs can be replaced next day. -We need to start lynching non voters! they are mostly mafia they are 7 people LTT should come with an accurate list soon. weeeee.
What the hell did these guys do again exactly?
Suspected mafia/people who didn't PM dyno/inactives afaik
Sorry people but i told you. There are 9/10 mafia alive, most probaly 9. Everyone that Didnt vote inerpinept just dodge the checklist. Thats why i posted that every townie that didnt vote inertinept is HIGHLY suspect. Its a matter of time now. Good luck to the town i dont think i will pass this night thought, paramedics should be protecting paramedics/dts imo.
On March 02 2009 15:11 Scaramanga wrote: O sick just got back from school to some good news! And having 11 veterans is just crazy, should the vets come public mabey?
Having the vets go public would basically tell the mafia who not to hit tonight...of course u wouldn't want that would u?
On March 03 2009 00:37 Dyno. wrote: Fishball why have you not PM'd me your role
Because I have not read 99% of the posts in this thread yet. Not going to make any excuses, not that it matters, but I won't make any moves until I have the time to catch up.
I did vote for inertinept (I didn't agree with that decision but I did anyways). Malongo, the list you produced is almost absolutely useless. Why would mad hatters place bombs on people from that list? It holds no significance. And wtf is all this about "insiders"? There is NO way everybody not on that list has been confirmed of their role and your town circle is that large. If voting for inertinept deems you an "insider", we've pretty much already lost this game.
People that didn't vote for inertinept are justificed in their decision. Though they didn't get an order from dyno. to do so, it helps the PE if he decides to votecheck. Think about it: a votecheck on the mainlist producing something like [6/45] are mafia from the inertinept votelist is essentially the same as producing [3/14] who didn't vote for inertinept are mafia. If we have everybody vote for inertinept then we'll get something like [9/59] are mafia - an absolutely USELESS statistic. What's all this nonsense about "dodging" a votecheck? You are going to be checked either way (the two choices being: (a) voting for inertinept or (b) not voting for inertinept). And a lot of people on malongo's list are active so I really have no idea what that list is supposed to mean, even less of a clue on why mad hatters should place a trap on them.
If anything, Mad Hatters should place a bomb on the people most likely to be hit (which is what they are SUPPOSED to do instead of listening to random lists like malongo's). LTT and Scaramanga come to mind as helpful people who would be targeted by mafia. Just listen to what dyno. tells you, not malongo.
On March 02 2009 13:53 redtooth wrote: Alright, at the request of the others: I change my vote to inertinept Still stand by my statement that we should have many smaller lists, even if Dyno. doesn't directly order it. A votecheck on the main list is absolutely useless. There is no way we could sift through all of the ~50 people who will vote for inertinept.
edit: Few formatting errors using UBB code. No content changed.
Seriously what's with all the people arguing against lynching inertinept AFTER HE ADMITTED TO BEING MAFIA. WTF. It's almost like the don sent out a message to stick up for him and some people did so without reading all of the thread to see how stupid that would be.
On March 03 2009 06:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Seriously what's with all the people arguing against lynching inertinept AFTER HE ADMITTED TO BEING MAFIA. WTF. It's almost like the don sent out a message to stick up for him and some people did so without reading all of the thread to see how stupid that would be.
I don't think that was what people were arguing about. I think they were worried about spreading out their votes so we could get some better votechecks. If I'm wrong, could you point me towards some posts of people defending inertinept?
On March 03 2009 06:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Seriously what's with all the people arguing against lynching inertinept AFTER HE ADMITTED TO BEING MAFIA. WTF. It's almost like the don sent out a message to stick up for him and some people did so without reading all of the thread to see how stupid that would be.
I don't think that was what people were arguing about. I think they were worried about spreading out their votes so we could get some better votechecks. If I'm wrong, could you point me towards some posts of people defending inertinept?
Yeah you're right they just wanted votechecks and they weren't being centralized. Just triflejack joking around I guess.
On March 03 2009 02:21 LTT wrote: You changed your vote after voting had closed.
Edit: It happened exactly 6 posts above the post you quoted.
Eh I assumed that "Final Vote Count" meant the final notice before voting was actually closed. Much like the first Vote Count was just an alert on how many votes were allocated where. Guess I will keep that in mind for future reference. Nonetheless, that doesn't impact the rest of my argument. I really think we misplayed by stacking all our votes onto Inertinept.
On March 03 2009 06:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Seriously what's with all the people arguing against lynching inertinept AFTER HE ADMITTED TO BEING MAFIA. WTF. It's almost like the don sent out a message to stick up for him and some people did so without reading all of the thread to see how stupid that would be.
remember how we had a lot of people trolling the other game <cough> attackzerg <cough>
On March 03 2009 06:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Seriously what's with all the people arguing against lynching inertinept AFTER HE ADMITTED TO BEING MAFIA. WTF. It's almost like the don sent out a message to stick up for him and some people did so without reading all of the thread to see how stupid that would be.
remember how we had a lot of people trolling the other game <cough> attackzerg <cough>
Ah but which game are you talking about? AZ managed to troll several!
I agree with redtooth that multiple smaller lists are better for votechecks. On the other hand if almosts all players vote for the same suspect, the real rolecheck is on the people who didn't vote, as one can deduce the numbe of mafia from the total number of players and mafia, and the number of mafia who voted for the suspect.
On March 03 2009 02:17 redtooth wrote: I did vote for inertinept (I didn't agree with that decision but I did anyways). Malongo, the list you produced is almost absolutely useless. Why would mad hatters place bombs on people from that list? It holds no significance. And wtf is all this about "insiders"? There is NO way everybody not on that list has been confirmed of their role and your town circle is that large. If voting for inertinept deems you an "insider", we've pretty much already lost this game.
1 People that didn't vote for inertinept are justificed in their decision. Though they didn't get an order from dyno. to do so, 2- it helps the PE if he decides to votecheck. Think about it: a votecheck on the mainlist producing something like [6/45] are mafia from the inertinept votelist is essentially the same as producing [3/14] who didn't vote for inertinept are mafia. If we have everybody vote for inertinept then we'll get something like [9/59] are mafia - an absolutely USELESS statistic. What's all this nonsense about "dodging" a votecheck? You are going to be checked either way (the two choices being: (a) voting for inertinept or (b) not voting for inertinept). And a lot of people on malongo's list are active so I really have no idea what that list is supposed to mean, even less of a clue on why mad hatters should place a trap on them.
3-If anything, Mad Hatters should place a bomb on the people most likely to be hit (which is what they are SUPPOSED to do instead of listening to random lists like malongo's). LTT and Scaramanga come to mind as helpful people who would be targeted by mafia. Just listen to what dyno. tells you, not malongo.
On March 02 2009 13:53 redtooth wrote: Alright, at the request of the others: I change my vote to inertinept Still stand by my statement that we should have many smaller lists, even if Dyno. doesn't directly order it. A votecheck on the main list is absolutely useless. There is no way we could sift through all of the ~50 people who will vote for inertinept.
edit: Few formatting errors using UBB code. No content changed.
Just LOL stop capek. 1-How can be them justified? give me one advantage to put your vote in a single person list and i can agree. Theres no one!!! 2-How can a single person votecheck help the PE? just better do a rolecheck instead. 3-LOL wut??? i better bomb a suspicious player and get a townie rather than losing the bomb this is nonsense muahahahah. Please seriously place bombs on people that will die to mafia? AHAHAHAHAHAHA 4-Yes i agree dont worry too much abut me, dyno. and friends is the way to go. 5-Why did you change your vote after the votecount was closed, is this a joke????
The more you argue against me the more suspicious you get bro, just live with it. This single post from you prove that my list wasnt useless.
On March 03 2009 08:00 MasterOfChaos wrote: I agree with redtooth that multiple smaller lists are better for votechecks. On the other hand if almosts all players vote for the same suspect, the real rolecheck is on the people who didn't vote, as one can deduce the numbe of mafia from the total number of players and mafia, and the number of mafia who voted for the suspect.
Thats the point. With no smaller votelist why some pleople were afraid to go in the big list and spread their votes in single lists? afaik we cant checklist people who didnt vote. In a perfect townie coordination every townie had to vote inertinept and get the info form there. Thats why i stated that townies voting in sinlge lists are dumb, they are looking suspicious.
Townies voting in a single list is not yet suspicious. And I wouldn't call it dumb, just not ideal. Until dyno. or someone authorized by him creates their own lists and asks them to follow them we can't create very useful lists because they haven't been organized. The inner circle should create specific lists in order to check if suspicions are warranted, not randomly create the vote lists. No PEs should be using powers until Dyno. and Co. coordinate it.
the hell i'd love if the vote check came out to be 9/59, you'd have to be an idiot not to like that.
but yeah i have no idea why everyone voted for the same person ?? dyno should've split a group of 10 or so and made them vote for another. having two lists to work with in the future is more useful than one
One thing the mafia didn't predict was the league of Mad Hatters. A secret society of criminally insane assassins that just happen to live within the city of Liquidia. They made short work of the mafia.
3clipse spotted Ra.Xor.2 sneaking into someones house and ran up to him then set off a bomb strapped to his chest, killing them both.
ChaoSbringer brought his own chaos to Teejing when he spotted him pulling a gun on his target that night, he tackled him to the ground and killed them both with a bomb.
Then it came down to two more. LucasWoJ suicide bombed HeRoS)Pink! But one mafia caught on, he saw a Mad Hatter running furiously at him. Unloading his gun he managed to kill JL13 before he could set his bomb off. But Qatol made up for that small error when he suicide bombed triflejack from behind. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- HOLY SHIT BATMAN! Well needless to say who's going to win this game. I'm both disappointed but surprised at the same time. Disappointed because I expected mafia to get into the town alliance and learn their plans then use it to their advantage. Surprised that they didn't and the town was able to kill off so many so early in the game.
Right now the mafia are probably screaming 'unfair' 'hax' 'bullshit', etc. Well they're justified. Who's all for a new game without a role that gets an extra vote?
Mafia made a simple error here. There is no role "townie". Everyone who roleclaimed townie was bombed. Was MasterOfChaos a mafia as well? His hatter didn't check in fast enough.
EDIT: Yeah fuck it, game over man. Mafia screwed up big time this game but this also goes in part with Veteran being overpowered (I'm still laughing at all the people who called the role stupid or useless).
Naib and LTT were protected by medics and JL13 was the only hit remaining because all the Mad Hatters hit before mafia sent in their hits so it lowered their hit count to 3.
Well it was both veteran and sanctuary together that was overpowered. And yeah, the mafia not realizing that townie isn't a role helped end it. Chuiu, could you post the full list of mafia anyways? We were missing 1 I think. Unless that was fearus?
hilarious. kind of shitty though - how is mafia supposed to win when every townie has an extra power. i realize that townie's get bored but when i started to realize that everyone was blue i felt less special .
I kinda felt like we had a pretty much unbeatable strategy, but apparently Mafia dug their own graves. Mad props to Dyno. for believing me and not getting someone to rolecheck me
On March 03 2009 13:30 Chuiu wrote: Now lets all play nice and pretend like this thread never happened.
btw, 12 vets vs 10 mafia? That seems a bit imbalanced. Just a thought.
I expected about half of the vets to be voting full time. Meaning only like 6-7 vets would have extra lives and it would only be one extra life. Really the only thing I felt like I made the mistake of was not giving mafia more hits earlier on. If I could have restarted this game earlier Mafia would have 6 hits to start and lose one every other mafia death.
On March 03 2009 13:34 malongo wrote: I really think the problem here was the early votecount. Secret votes from veterans should come with the final count.
no, i'm pretty sure the problem was roleclaiming townie =_=. that said, roles that can prove their innocence 100% at any time dumb down the game a bit regardless.
On March 03 2009 13:34 malongo wrote: I really think the problem here was the early votecount. Secret votes from veterans should come with the final count.
Wouldn't have mattered. We didn't need the extra vet ids. The mass suicide was coordinated today. All we needed were the roleclaims
On March 03 2009 13:30 Chuiu wrote: Now lets all play nice and pretend like this thread never happened.
btw, 12 vets vs 10 mafia? That seems a bit imbalanced. Just a thought.
I expected about half of the vets to be voting full time. Meaning only like 6-7 vets would have extra lives and it would only be one extra life. Really the only thing I felt like I made the mistake of was not giving mafia more hits earlier on. If I could have restarted this game earlier Mafia would have 6 hits to start and lose one every other mafia death.
I don't see why the vets would ever want to use their extra vote once they confirmed innocence. It doesn't really have a huge impact on the lynch most of the time.
On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote: 50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke.
the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem
On March 03 2009 13:37 LTT wrote: Qatol for MVP. He was the first to point out that there was no Townie role in the game. After that we just ran with it.
LTT and Dyno are modest here. They helped me sell it. Notice that we emphasize that townies should send in role PMs too. The first one was a mistake by LTT, the rest were on purpose. This wouldn't have worked if they hadn't supported it.
On March 03 2009 13:37 LTT wrote: Qatol for MVP. He was the first to point out that there was no Townie role in the game. After that we just ran with it.
Whoops, my bad Qatol, haha. Congrats for that. Someone pointed it out earlier in the thread (zeks, perhaps?), but I didn't make too much of it. Mafia played horribly this game.
I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote: 50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke.
the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem
the problem was that the mafia team only had 1-2 players that had played before and the rest were new, one dying day 1. so we were hopeless to begin with. claiming townie in a game without villager rofl wow.
On March 03 2009 13:37 LTT wrote: Qatol for MVP. He was the first to point out that there was no Townie role in the game. After that we just ran with it.
Whoops, my bad Qatol, haha. Congrats for that. Someone pointed it out earlier in the thread (zeks, perhaps?), but I didn't make too much of it. Mafia played horribly this game.
Zeks noticed it on page 28. Qatol found it around page 13.
On March 03 2009 13:37 Chuiu wrote: I really wanted to make a game work where everyone had a role but I guess I'm going to have to redesign Veteran and Private Eye. Any suggestions?
First of all, I wouldn't give vets an extra vote at all. Or force them to pick an ability at the start of the game and that is the one they have. Also, I would dump sanctuary. It is far too strong. Finally, give the mafia an ability they can use day 1 if you're going to give one to the town. This wouldn't have worked if they could backlash or snakeskin
On March 03 2009 13:37 LTT wrote: Qatol for MVP. He was the first to point out that there was no Townie role in the game. After that we just ran with it.
Whoops, my bad Qatol, haha. Congrats for that. Someone pointed it out earlier in the thread (zeks, perhaps?), but I didn't make too much of it. Mafia played horribly this game.
We actually sent him a PM about that (but didn't ask him to take it down). Bockit also noticed and PMed LTT asking about it.
I knew there were no townies in this game because of the previous TL Discussion thread we had about a month ago. I really wanted to say there were no townies this game, but I decided not to. Does the new game have new people or the same people?
On March 03 2009 13:40 Trezeguet23 wrote: I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
Again, Chuiu, how could you not see this coming?
Btw, you were caught anyways. You went into the TL IRC channel and posted "yo mafia". LTT was sitting there.
On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote: 50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke.
the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem
the problem was that the mafia team only had 1-2 players that had played before and the rest were new, one dying day 1. so we were hopeless to begin with. claiming townie in a game without villager rofl wow.
even so, the roleclaims should've been discussed beforehand. . . but i guess the RNG that determined who got to be mafia wasn't too kind anyway
On March 03 2009 13:40 Trezeguet23 wrote: I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
Again, Chuiu, how could you not see this coming?
I fully expect you to be pissed off but you're wrong. First of all you can fake claim to be Private Eye, Mad Hatter, or Detective safely. Secondly I did not make 'a million pre-vote tallies' I made TWO. If you think this was entirely my fault then you, sir, are dumb. If I were mafia I would have had a couple mafia claim to be Private Eye's and a couple claim to be Mad Hatters and the rest claim to be Detectives. I could explain my entire strategy but you're probably content on thinking otherwise.
Also as for 'towny not being a role'. I posted a long time before this game was started that the next mafia I hosted would have no townies and there isn't even a towny in the role list. Look at every mafia before this one and you will see Towny is listed as a role but not this one. Ignorance is your reason for losing and you have no excuse.
On March 01 2009 06:36 Icysoul wrote: dang, looks like everyone is unanimously voting for inertinept so no reason not to vote for him.
I vote for inertinept
looks like we have alot of activities compared to earlier when it was dead... very nice job on the clue analysis guys, but i thought that clue was wayyyy to easy
I knew Icysoul was mafia the minute I saw this. Who else would say something like "so no reason not to vote for him"? Dead mafia giveaway.
Boy, I don't know which is more fun: watching the game unfold or listening to the aftermath, with all the praising, finger-pointing, and "Chuiu, you should have done this or that" going on.
Whether the town's strategy was original or not, it still worked and nailed enough mafia to end the game the first morning. I agree that veterans should only have extra lives, though. The idea of a circle of confirmed townies able to coordinate the different roles, because all the blues know they can trust them, doesn't give the Mafia much of a chance, unless they have some special roles of their own.
On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote: 50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke.
the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem
Actually it was partially. Even though making everyone blue means everyone is happy, with the town powers it's only a matter of time. Even without the mafia screw up the game was over.
On March 03 2009 13:40 Trezeguet23 wrote: I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
Again, Chuiu, how could you not see this coming?
I fully expect you to be pissed off but you're wrong. First of all you can fake claim to be Private Eye, Mad Hatter, or Detective safely. Secondly I did not make 'a million pre-vote tallies' I made TWO. If you think this was entirely my fault then you, sir, are dumb. If I were mafia I would have had a couple mafia claim to be Private Eye's and a couple claim to be Mad Hatters and the rest claim to be Detectives. I could explain my entire strategy but you're probably content on thinking otherwise.
There are ways to check to see if we are indeed these roles, and I agree that your clever plan could work for a long time, but it would take us at least 12 days to kill them all assuming we didn't hit a single medic. And with the help of clues it is more realistic that it would take us 16 days if not more. Over the course of this time, they could weed us out and reduce our killing power even more. I am not saying that not claiming townie would have increased our time in game, but overall our task is futile.
just wow, wow... i have no comment, just that we got pwned but seriously all the mafia guys need to read everything in the op... well i guess atleast i kept a good cover good experience for later games btw any future games im gonna try my best to join, this is fun sort of.
On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote: 50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke.
the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem
Actually it was partially. Even though making everyone blue means everyone is happy, with the town powers it's only a matter of time. Even without the mafia screw up the game was over.
Invincibility = bad (unless it's mayor/pardoner).
Invincibility is only for one night and only for one set of roles. It can't be used on the same roles every night and can only be used 3 nights total. Its not very overpowering at all especially when mafia can get a double kill night.
On March 03 2009 13:40 Trezeguet23 wrote: I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
Again, Chuiu, how could you not see this coming?
I fully expect you to be pissed off but you're wrong. First of all you can fake claim to be Private Eye, Mad Hatter, or Detective safely. Secondly I did not make 'a million pre-vote tallies' I made TWO. If you think this was entirely my fault then you, sir, are dumb. If I were mafia I would have had a couple mafia claim to be Private Eye's and a couple claim to be Mad Hatters and the rest claim to be Detectives. I could explain my entire strategy but you're probably content on thinking otherwise.
There are ways to check to see if we are indeed these roles, and I agree that your clever plan could work for a long time, but it would take us at least 12 days to kill them all assuming we didn't hit a single medic. And with the help of clues it is more realistic that it would take us 16 days if not more. Over the course of this time, they could weed us out and reduce our killing power even more. I am not saying that not claiming townie would have increased our time in game, but overall our task is futile.
Take a look at Mafia 2. An organized town doesn't guarantee a blowout.
Also I thought the game was going in the wrong direction the moment the veteran plan was outlined. Chuiu I thought the whole purpose of the game was to make everyone interested and to NOT have an elite circle of townies doing everything and giving orders. The veteran plan basically was a guaranteed non-mafia mayor/pardonner plan. Even though this outcome was funny, elite town circles aren't as fun to play with/watch if you're not in that circle.
On March 03 2009 13:40 Trezeguet23 wrote: I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
Again, Chuiu, how could you not see this coming?
I fully expect you to be pissed off but you're wrong. First of all you can fake claim to be Private Eye, Mad Hatter, or Detective safely. Secondly I did not make 'a million pre-vote tallies' I made TWO. If you think this was entirely my fault then you, sir, are dumb. If I were mafia I would have had a couple mafia claim to be Private Eye's and a couple claim to be Mad Hatters and the rest claim to be Detectives. I could explain my entire strategy but you're probably content on thinking otherwise.
There are ways to check to see if we are indeed these roles, and I agree that your clever plan could work for a long time, but it would take us at least 12 days to kill them all assuming we didn't hit a single medic. And with the help of clues it is more realistic that it would take us 16 days if not more. Over the course of this time, they could weed us out and reduce our killing power even more. I am not saying that not claiming townie would have increased our time in game, but overall our task is futile.
Yeah I agree mafia kill count was too low for this game. Besides Veteran I feel that was the biggest mistake.
On March 03 2009 13:51 Chuiu wrote: Also, no one got Day 1 clues right.
Were those things even clues? We were guessing on them while having a list of most of the mafia and still couldn't get them. Could you post the clues please?
On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote: 50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke.
the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem
Actually it was partially. Even though making everyone blue means everyone is happy, with the town powers it's only a matter of time. Even without the mafia screw up the game was over.
Invincibility = bad (unless it's mayor/pardoner).
Invincibility is only for one night and only for one set of roles. It can't be used on the same roles every night and can only be used 3 nights total. Its not very overpowering at all especially when mafia can get a double kill night.
I dont think sanctuary is overpowered in fact can be pretty useless compared to double kill. The only imbalance is to have a rol that can roleclaim AND confirm first morning.
On March 03 2009 13:53 Icysoul wrote: just wow, wow... i have no comment, just that we got pwned but seriously all the mafia guys need to read everything in the op... well i guess atleast i kept a good cover good experience for later games btw any future games im gonna try my best to join, this is fun sort of.
On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote: 50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke.
the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem
Actually it was partially. Even though making everyone blue means everyone is happy, with the town powers it's only a matter of time. Even without the mafia screw up the game was over.
Invincibility = bad (unless it's mayor/pardoner).
Invincibility is only for one night and only for one set of roles. It can't be used on the same roles every night and can only be used 3 nights total. Its not very overpowering at all especially when mafia can get a double kill night.
We were talking about this too. With only 5 KP a double kill night simply isn't that strong. Please consider having more like 15 mafia in the next game. I think that was the biggest problem. Mafia just didn't have enough people. Well maybe second biggest behind easy vet circle.
On March 03 2009 13:37 inertinept wrote: 50 blues vs 10 mafia...seriously chuiu lol? when are we going to have a normal game? now i have really lost hope in TL mafia lol this was a joke.
the blues were quite a bit weaker than normal, that's not the problem not reading the rules was a problem
Actually it was partially. Even though making everyone blue means everyone is happy, with the town powers it's only a matter of time. Even without the mafia screw up the game was over.
Invincibility = bad (unless it's mayor/pardoner).
Invincibility is only for one night and only for one set of roles. It can't be used on the same roles every night and can only be used 3 nights total. Its not very overpowering at all especially when mafia can get a double kill night.
Ok maybe not strictly overpowered by itself but with this set of rules it was game breaking. Remember, the town's disadvantage is the lack of information it has, while it's advantage is high numbers.
With Sanctuary + Vets they had an easy way of confirming who is who. Let's assume that it was just Dyne + the other vets that formed a circle only. Thats enough power from Day one to almost sure fire end the game. None of the mafia powers, even Double Kill were good enough to stop that from happening.
On March 03 2009 13:40 Trezeguet23 wrote: I think that the game was dumb since the citizens used a strat that was used in a previous game (so they aren't as smart as they think they are) and since there were over 10 vets, it would have taken us a bare minimum of 12 days to kill everyone. That would have been way long enough for them to figure out the fake roles that we had.
In addition, if we all had fake roles, we could not prove that we were a vet since you posted a million pre-vote tallies, and only the vets knew that townie wasn't a roll. Again, this hinges on the town's plan, but it was an already used strat so it's not like they are geniuses.
If anyone thinks that the mafia could have done anything different, you are dumb.
Again, Chuiu, how could you not see this coming?
I fully expect you to be pissed off but you're wrong. First of all you can fake claim to be Private Eye, Mad Hatter, or Detective safely. Secondly I did not make 'a million pre-vote tallies' I made TWO. If you think this was entirely my fault then you, sir, are dumb. If I were mafia I would have had a couple mafia claim to be Private Eye's and a couple claim to be Mad Hatters and the rest claim to be Detectives. I could explain my entire strategy but you're probably content on thinking otherwise.
There are ways to check to see if we are indeed these roles, and I agree that your clever plan could work for a long time, but it would take us at least 12 days to kill them all assuming we didn't hit a single medic. And with the help of clues it is more realistic that it would take us 16 days if not more. Over the course of this time, they could weed us out and reduce our killing power even more. I am not saying that not claiming townie would have increased our time in game, but overall our task is futile.
Yeah I agree mafia kill count was too low for this game. Besides Veteran I feel that was the biggest mistake.
Any time you give the town a way of organizing and the sheer amount of kill power they had (9 hatters was almost as scary as 13 veterans) things just won't end up well.
On March 03 2009 13:51 Chuiu wrote: Also, no one got Day 1 clues right.
Were those things even clues? We were guessing on them while having a list of most of the mafia and still couldn't get them. Could you post the clues please?
Yeah, I'm curious to hear what the clues were. I'm sure we were looking a lot of things that weren't meant to be clues and probably missing things that were.
They were pretty obscure and a couple of them were stretching peoples names.
Many of them bore a crest on their arm -> 3 Lions (Lions are a common thing to find in crests, when I think 3 Lions I thought of a crest with 3 lions on it - I knew no one would get this)
someone on the side of the building -> Trezeguet23 (money on fish line = bait, same as the role he played in the killings)
sharp looking man -> Ra.Xor.2 (don't ask don't tell, this was probably the easiest and hardest clue)
rather benign looking man -> inertinept lol it was triflejack (focusing on the word trifle and stretching its meaning)
On March 01 2009 03:31 inertinept wrote: yup I will confirm that I am mafia. I looked through the day one clues, and there is like 400 red herrings. mafia has absolutely no chance of winning, but good luck.
please make the clues better next time, lmao.
Well that was easy lol.
yea seriously...benign man? i bet BC is making the clues no offense =P
No way. I struggled so hard with the clues that BC made when he hosted haha.
hahaha me too
in any case I'm still not too sure lol. I know people have a tendency to troll town "hint, hint" (fishball and attackzerg COUGH)
Sorry I'm going through the thread right now. 1/3 of the way through and I caught this post.
Attackzerg was mafia last game, so he wasn't exactly trolling town. As for me last game, you(guys) accused me first without any "evidence", and even though I hinted that I was a vet during the process of accusation, no one ever thought of it. Then after I was confirmed a vet, I was still partially kept in the dark, which just turns me off, so I'd rather have some fun.
Speaking of last game, you still owe me some lube up your ass.
I don't think the extra votes were imbalanced so much as the fact that it's actually legal to privately claim. In any game type, you're probably going to have some way for there to be someone who is a guaranteed townie. If not mathematically, than just purely through reads. I considered LTT guaranteed townie just by how much he was screwing over mafia.
Claiming should be public. Period. The inherent risk in claiming is exposing yourself to the mafia and potentially making yourself a target. However, it's still viable because there are medics to protect you. Additionally it might be worth dying for to give the town the information you have, and if mafia kill you and your role is revealed, that information is guaranteed to be true.
I had fun, I guess. I called from the very start that this game was ridiculously imbalanced for town, and that was before I knew about the fact that we were all power roles. Thanks for the game guys, but I doubt I'll be playing again.
On March 03 2009 14:07 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Mafia 101 via Wikipedia:
"Mafia (also known as Werewolf or Assassin) is a party game modeling a battle between an informed minority and an uninformed majority."
Once you have a council of 11+ confirmable Veterans, you have an informed majority = imba.
You are only halfway there, all you have to do is switch the words informed and uninformed and you will learn the definition for Team Liquid Mafia 4. TT
holy shit.... that was like 4 pages worth of posting in an hour.....lol i didn't do like anything in this game... LOL its over already. Is there going to be another, more balanced game?
"sharp looking man -> Ra.Xor.2 (don't ask don't tell, this was probably the easiest and hardest clue)"
Sharp looking man -> Gay people stereotypically dress nice -> Gay people are oppressed by don't ask don't tell -> DADT involves barracks -> Ra.Xor.2 ... look if you are going to make clues that complicated at least try to make sure that Occam's Razor isn't going to lead us to half the field first: Less steps: Pyrrhuloxia -> bird with sharp beak / talons -> sharp looking man blue arrow -> arrows are sharp -> sharp looking man rice -> has sharp knife / teeth in profile -> sharp looking man 3 lions -> lions have sharp claws -> sharp looking man TrifleJack -> some people think Jack Sparrow looks pretty sharp -> sharp looking man fearus -> sounds like Fearow -> bird with sharp beak -> sharp looking man
No one is supposed to get day 1 clues anyway so I suppose it is fine but i hope they weren't going to be like that the whole time.
On March 03 2009 14:08 Dyno. wrote: I don't think the extra votes were imbalanced so much as the fact that it's actually legal to privately claim. In any game type, you're probably going to have some way for there to be someone who is a guaranteed townie. If not mathematically, than just purely through reads. I considered LTT guaranteed townie just by how much he was screwing over mafia.
Claiming should be public. Period. The inherent risk in claiming is exposing yourself to the mafia and potentially making yourself a target. However, it's still viable because there are medics to protect you. Additionally it might be worth dying for to give the town the information you have, and if mafia kill you and your role is revealed, that information is guaranteed to be true.
I had fun, I guess. I called from the very start that this game was ridiculously imbalanced for town, and that was before I knew about the fact that we were all power roles. Thanks for the game guys, but I doubt I'll be playing again.
While I agree things should be more public we're playing on an internet forum - really there isn't much anyone running the game can do to stop that.
On March 03 2009 14:15 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: "sharp looking man -> Ra.Xor.2 (don't ask don't tell, this was probably the easiest and hardest clue)"
Sharp looking man -> Gay people stereotypically dress nice -> Gay people are oppressed by don't ask don't tell -> DADT involves barracks -> Ra.Xor.2 ... look if you are going to make clues that complicated at least try to make sure that Occam's Razor isn't going to lead us to half the field first: Less steps: Pyrrhuloxia -> bird with sharp beak / talons -> sharp looking man blue arrow -> arrows are sharp -> sharp looking man rice -> has sharp knife / teeth in profile -> sharp looking man 3 lions -> lions have sharp claws -> sharp looking man TrifleJack -> some people think Jack Sparrow looks pretty sharp -> sharp looking man fearus -> sounds like Fearow -> bird with sharp beak -> sharp looking man
No one is supposed to get day 1 clues anyway so I suppose it is fine but i hope they weren't going to be like that the whole time.
On March 03 2009 14:08 Dyno. wrote: I don't think the extra votes were imbalanced so much as the fact that it's actually legal to privately claim. In any game type, you're probably going to have some way for there to be someone who is a guaranteed townie. If not mathematically, than just purely through reads. I considered LTT guaranteed townie just by how much he was screwing over mafia.
Claiming should be public. Period. The inherent risk in claiming is exposing yourself to the mafia and potentially making yourself a target. However, it's still viable because there are medics to protect you. Additionally it might be worth dying for to give the town the information you have, and if mafia kill you and your role is revealed, that information is guaranteed to be true.
I had fun, I guess. I called from the very start that this game was ridiculously imbalanced for town, and that was before I knew about the fact that we were all power roles. Thanks for the game guys, but I doubt I'll be playing again.
While I agree things should be more public we're playing on an internet forum - really there isn't much anyone running the game can do to stop that.
Granted, but claiming is only useful if you use it to organize the town with the information they get. If the game organizers saw people making assumptions on information they shouldn't know, they would be able to determine people were privately claiming. Additionally, I like to think that most people here have some ethics and if Chuiu banned privately claiming most wouldn't do it, and those who did would be ratted out by those who don't (in the spirit of having a good game).
On March 03 2009 14:15 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: "sharp looking man -> Ra.Xor.2 (don't ask don't tell, this was probably the easiest and hardest clue)"
Sharp looking man -> Gay people stereotypically dress nice -> Gay people are oppressed by don't ask don't tell -> DADT involves barracks -> Ra.Xor.2 ... look if you are going to make clues that complicated at least try to make sure that Occam's Razor isn't going to lead us to half the field first: Less steps: Pyrrhuloxia -> bird with sharp beak / talons -> sharp looking man blue arrow -> arrows are sharp -> sharp looking man rice -> has sharp knife / teeth in profile -> sharp looking man 3 lions -> lions have sharp claws -> sharp looking man TrifleJack -> some people think Jack Sparrow looks pretty sharp -> sharp looking man fearus -> sounds like Fearow -> bird with sharp beak -> sharp looking man
No one is supposed to get day 1 clues anyway so I suppose it is fine but i hope they weren't going to be like that the whole time.
Wouldn't it just be Ra.Xor = razor = sharp?
That is what I thought looking down the list of Mafia, that or 3 lions
I JUST had the free time to read the entire thread, since I was busy for the past 4 days (like I mentioned in the thread previously, I was sincere), starting from page 7, which took me like an hour to catch up...
Then BAM, the game ends. I was the last veteran...
On March 03 2009 14:28 Fishball wrote: OMFG you guys fucking suck
I JUST had the free time, since I was busy for the past 4 days, to read the entire thread, starting at page 7, which took me like an hour to catch up...
Then BAM, the game ends. I was the last veteran...
Boooo
We guessed you were townie but we had no idea what role you had. We decided not to bother bombing you because you are you haha.
On March 03 2009 14:08 Dyno. wrote: I don't think the extra votes were imbalanced so much as the fact that it's actually legal to privately claim. In any game type, you're probably going to have some way for there to be someone who is a guaranteed townie. If not mathematically, than just purely through reads. I considered LTT guaranteed townie just by how much he was screwing over mafia.
Claiming should be public. Period. The inherent risk in claiming is exposing yourself to the mafia and potentially making yourself a target. However, it's still viable because there are medics to protect you. Additionally it might be worth dying for to give the town the information you have, and if mafia kill you and your role is revealed, that information is guaranteed to be true.
I had fun, I guess. I called from the very start that this game was ridiculously imbalanced for town, and that was before I knew about the fact that we were all power roles. Thanks for the game guys, but I doubt I'll be playing again.
While I agree things should be more public we're playing on an internet forum - really there isn't much anyone running the game can do to stop that.
Granted, but claiming is only useful if you use it to organize the town with the information they get. If the game organizers saw people making assumptions on information they shouldn't know, they would be able to determine people were privately claiming. Additionally, I like to think that most people here have some ethics and if Chuiu banned privately claiming most wouldn't do it, and those who did would be ratted out by those who don't (in the spirit of having a good game).
They can't tell. In BCs game when I was mafia, I lied and said Fakesteve and 2 other townies PM'd me their roles. Steve said he didn't so I publicly called out the roles - I really was lying but it just so happened I had 2 of the 3 right.
Day 1 clues were good I felt. I,e they were too hard to get for the most part which is the entire point. Everyone always tries to make something of them anyway (and is 90% wrong of course) for whatever reason, then something else always comes up that decides the outcome anyway. It's just weird natural progression I guess.
I think that this shows we need to reflect and go over things more carefully before jumping the gun. We've had two flops now because of guaranteed innocents. They simply don't work and unfortunately this system has very large flaws even if there were no veterans. Namely that because all the roles are very weak (except PE which can use its power turn 1), the mafia no longer have to decide between killing blues and killing smart people. Now they can just kill off every smart person immediately with no consquences (medics can block this so it basically becomes a crapshoot) . This is something to avoid because a) it makes targeting braindead b) it turns the town into this slum of stupidity that everyone grimaces at within 2 days. I don't think we want to encourage smurfing.
Also, potentially 5 votelists would have been far too strong even if they would've overlapped (any more than 1-2 votelists really screws the mafia, it's an extremely strong ability that should be severely restricted if included at all). Town/Mafia powers are kinda questionable (some of them were definitely too strong, while I think voting for a double lynch is a great idea that should be kept).
I believe we are going to balance things out privately so hopefully we can have a great game next time!
On March 03 2009 14:28 Fishball wrote: OMFG you guys fucking suck
I JUST had the free time, since I was busy for the past 4 days, to read the entire thread, starting at page 7, which took me like an hour to catch up...
Then BAM, the game ends. I was the last veteran...
Boooo
We guessed you were townie but we had no idea what role you had. We decided not to bother bombing you because you are you haha.
I edited my post you quoted a bit. I was actually "serious" this time I really had no time since I'm dealing with some issues lately.
I've already took a game off (Caller's game), and have discussed with BC a bit about the game. I was hoping for an all around good game this time, without the dead talking, people cheating, and packed with a bunch of inactives, which were the main factors that decided most of our previous TL Mafia games. It was just simply lame, for either side.
I do confess I had a smirk on my face, when I was half way through the thread knowing that I was the last veteran and had the ability to "screw around". But damn, the game ended so quick... (in a bad way?)
On March 03 2009 14:35 Ver wrote: I believe we are going to balance things out privately so hopefully we can have a great game next time!
I forgot which thread/blog it was, but I think I've mentioned a couple times that the experienced players/game hosts needs to come together and discuss the rules and roles in order to balance out things.
I've also mentioned, which I believe in Caller's thread, that game hosts needs to restrain from adding "new elements" to the game without a well thought out refining process with the general consensus first.
On March 03 2009 14:35 Ver wrote: I believe we are going to balance things out privately so hopefully we can have a great game next time!
I forgot which thread/blog it was, but I think I've mentioned a couple times that the experienced players/game hosts needs to come together and discuss the rules and roles in order to balance out things.
I've also mentioned, which I believe in Caller's thread, that game hosts needs to restrain from adding "new elements" to the game without a well thought out refining process with the general consensus first.
I just want to play a good game
We did have a discussion. With little feedback, but it was a start. I personally didn't like the idea of giving everyone roles, but we were debating this and I felt it was useless to keep on arguing. Anyway, we experimented with it, and I think now we should move on. Double lynch as a town ability is a good alternative to Mayor. If more discussion will occur privately, I'd like to join.
On March 02 2009 13:50 zeks wrote: lol i just noticed that there is no green
you are either blue or red so everyone has a special role
I nearly saved you scum lol guess you guys had already claimed to dyno. before i could post this lol
i was a medic
Wow you are really good at getting medic roles. LTT and I were not happy when you made that post haha. However, it didn't really matter. We were only missing like 6 claims at that point and I think we still got another "townie" claim after that post.
On March 03 2009 13:31 dreamflower wrote: This has to be a record for quickest end to a game of Mafia.
I believe I hold the record! In Callers game, I got the village idiot role, I role called Ace as mafia (blindly) claiming to be a Jack. Somehow with around 60+ roles, I role called the God Father, which effectively ended the game. It was before Day 1, I believe? Because Ace was lynched and just shouted about imba and how the game was fucked and his unbeatable plan. So he never got lynched, game just ended.
This was still epic as fuck :D
Edit: If anyone likes reading mafia, the thread is here pretty hilarious when you can look at the big picture.
On March 03 2009 13:31 dreamflower wrote: This has to be a record for quickest end to a game of Mafia.
I believe I hold the record! In Callers game, I got the village idiot role, I role called Ace as mafia (blindly) claiming to be a Jack. Somehow with around 60+ roles, I role called the God Father, which effectively ended the game. It was before Day 1, I believe? Because Ace was lynched and just shouted about imba and how the game was fucked and his unbeatable plan. So he never got lynched, game just ended.
This was still epic as fuck :D
Edit: If anyone likes reading mafia, the thread is here pretty hilarious when you can look at the big picture.
Just looked it up (aww took me a while to find should have waited for your link). Hilarious.
On March 03 2009 13:31 dreamflower wrote: This has to be a record for quickest end to a game of Mafia.
I believe I hold the record! In Callers game, I got the village idiot role, I role called Ace as mafia (blindly) claiming to be a Jack. Somehow with around 60+ roles, I role called the God Father, which effectively ended the game. It was before Day 1, I believe? Because Ace was lynched and just shouted about imba and how the game was fucked and his unbeatable plan. So he never got lynched, game just ended.
This was still epic as fuck :D
Edit: If anyone likes reading mafia, the thread is here pretty hilarious when you can look at the big picture.
Dunno, my favorite moment is still here (Opz getting banned for double posting a lot)
On March 03 2009 15:14 Ace wrote: lol I called out that the game was imbalanced for the town even before I got my role and then when I got it I was like :/
Even worse were the people who believed you too when it was obvious you were lying and we always go back to the "ok lets lynch the accused person!"
haha we had like 3 pages of disagreement, it apparently wasn't THAT obvious I was lying :D I think the only thing that almost ruined my credibility was RCing DT first when I knew I had the potential to be insane. I should of went strait into the Jack role call.
I still hate the insane concept >.<;
a bunch of mafia vets should get on IRC and talk out a set up for the next mafia game, I was too lazy to read the thread. Especially when people had epic long posts I disagreed with, and didn't feel like debating point for point or reading the entirety of.
Anyone up for a TL Mafia IRC channel to talk it over?
On March 03 2009 13:31 dreamflower wrote: This has to be a record for quickest end to a game of Mafia.
I believe I hold the record! In Callers game, I got the village idiot role, I role called Ace as mafia (blindly) claiming to be a Jack. Somehow with around 60+ roles, I role called the God Father, which effectively ended the game. It was before Day 1, I believe? Because Ace was lynched and just shouted about imba and how the game was fucked and his unbeatable plan. So he never got lynched, game just ended.
This was still epic as fuck :D
Edit: If anyone likes reading mafia, the thread is here pretty hilarious when you can look at the big picture.
Dunno, my favorite moment is still here (Opz getting banned for double posting a lot)
Personally, I think my favorite moment was in the one I linked, where some guy started posting under the name "RealJack" claiming I was lying, and everyone was like "MAFIA PLOY!!" and I was sitting there laughing my ass off.
the opz ban was also hilarious, I remmeber reading it as it was happening. Plexa warned him and he was reading the thread from like 10 pages back, quoting and posting from 10 pages earlier and lined up like 6 posts in a row and Plexa was like THAT'S IT, TAKE A WEEK BREAK, LEARN TO POST MERGE
Nice. I almost owned myself this game - I was thinking about posting my sent box to prove I role claimed after being accused of not doing so, but then I saw I had a subject line about clue checking.
haha the screen shot mishap, I remember being in mafia IRC when that happened, sad moment. Capek, AttackZerg and I think Fishball? got caught in a 3/5 checklist, and they all panicked, attempting to prove their innocence. We would of had both the innocents dead before our mafia, preserving our hit count, but AttackZerg went awal, which fucked a few of us.
Also, I remember trying to hint to some of the more observant players in callers game. Reading this reminds me of how much of a cocky asshole I was
On March 03 2009 15:50 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: haha the screen shot mishap, I remember being in mafia IRC when that happened, sad moment. Capek, AttackZerg and I think Fishball? got caught in a 3/5 checklist, and they all panicked, attempting to prove their innocence. We would of had both the innocents dead before our mafia, preserving our hit count, but AttackZerg went awal, which fucked a few of us.
Also, I remember trying to hint to some of the more observant players in callers game. Reading this reminds me of how much of a cocky asshole I was
On December 30 2008 05:57 RealJack wrote: This is the Jack. RebirthOfLegend is an idiot lol. He is not a jack.
lol right, I am the idiot.
Obviously, you did not follow that thread, nor my previous post in this thread well enough.
Let me re-quote myself on page 36.
On March 03 2009 14:07 Fishball wrote: As for me last game, you(guys) accused me first without any "evidence", and even though I hinted that I was a vet during the process of accusation, no one ever thought of it.
I was never going to die in the first place as I was a veteran, and I was actually hoping for a vigilante to hit me in that game, which never did.
Yes, you stepped on my ego when you said I panicked!
On March 03 2009 15:50 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: haha the screen shot mishap, I remember being in mafia IRC when that happened, sad moment. Capek, AttackZerg and I think Fishball? got caught in a 3/5 checklist, and they all panicked, attempting to prove their innocence. We would of had both the innocents dead before our mafia, preserving our hit count, but AttackZerg went awal, which fucked a few of us.
Also, I remember trying to hint to some of the more observant players in callers game. Reading this reminds me of how much of a cocky asshole I was
On March 03 2009 14:07 Fishball wrote: As for me last game, you(guys) accused me first without any "evidence", and even though I hinted that I was a vet during the process of accusation, no one ever thought of it.
I was never going to die in the first place as I was a veteran, and I was actually hoping for a vigilante to hit me in that game, which never did.
Yes, you stepped on my ego when you said I panicked!
We would miss you if we just killed you off like that! I don't actually remember why we decided to leave you until last on that list. I think it was just that the clues weren't even close.
I meant our mafia panicked fishball :D I thought you were mafia that game, but now that I remember, you weren't. I just can't remember the third who was caught in the check.
Edit: and trust me, I followed that mafia closely, post for post. It's just hazy in retrospect.
No it was cause attackzerg gave himself up (and capek did too with his fake SS haha).
Originally it was fishball + spike who were going to die (spikes bad defense, fishball's attitude). Spike died, then mynock and hyperbola double hit capek (who caller had unveiled) because one of them didn't report their role so they couldn't hit both. Then attackzerg decided to give himself up for whatever bizarre reason so fishball lived.
On March 03 2009 16:15 malongo wrote: This was the votelist Rol. Spike was lynched first rolf, then we ended with a 2/3 list.
Folca - 4 fishball attackzerg capek spike
Yep.
Mynock was supposed to hit me, but he changed his kill the last moment. That's why I was disappointed when he didn't, as I was hinting so hard that I was a veteran by urging them to hit me and expecting myself to live.
I did enjoy the brief "WTF why is Fishball still alive" moment after that night, but it could have been better since my plan didn't work out, as there were no hits on me.
lolwut that has got to be the shortest game in the history of online mafia :D I knew Masterofchaos was mafia and Amber[LighT] gave his role away in 2 posts.
Private communcation between players that aren't mafia breaks the game. Roleclaims need to be done in the open for the mafia to have any chance. fun game though.
On March 03 2009 19:48 pandabearguy wrote: Private communcation between players that aren't mafia breaks the game. Roleclaims need to be done in the open for the mafia to have any chance. fun game though.
no if there are no confirmed roles. In fact its always mafia that take advantage of private communication.
On March 03 2009 19:48 pandabearguy wrote: Private communcation between players that aren't mafia breaks the game. Roleclaims need to be done in the open for the mafia to have any chance. fun game though.
no if there are no confirmed roles. In fact its always mafia that take advantage of private communication.
...and loses anyway because private town communication is so broken?
On March 03 2009 19:48 pandabearguy wrote: Private communcation between players that aren't mafia breaks the game. Roleclaims need to be done in the open for the mafia to have any chance. fun game though.
no if there are no confirmed roles. In fact its always mafia that take advantage of private communication.
...and loses anyway because private town communication is so broken?
I meant that normally mafia infiltrates the town private communication easily when there is no confirmed townie. There it ends being broken, you cant pm your role easily. Theres no way to stop it anyways.
I'm pretty curious what the mafia plan was this game. LTT and I spent a long time trying to figure out how the town should play things if the mafia decided to backlash for day 2. Was that ordered?
EPT![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmafia.png)
?
![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLmorning.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/userfiles/29447.jpg?1235820932)
![[image loading]](http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5851/pms.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n99/chuiu/TLnight.png)
![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/3/33/Allahackbar.jpg/180px-Allahackbar.jpg)
