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On June 14 2024 16:14 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:01 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:53 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:51 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:41 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off. That's fair and understandable. I think the most important part was the last paragraph about sandroba this game though? Do you disagree? I think it makes sense in the context that sandroba probably didn't expect to go afk for so long. I think it's quite reasonable for mafia to vote a partner early in a day tbh. If they can defend themselves, great, just say their defense makes sense and you changed your mind! If not, you have an early bus, and they probably weren't surviving anyway. Scott31337 being mafia doesn't feel right to me so I am open to that being wrong. I do have a little more confidence in the die_meatbaby vote. yeahi agree about voting early in the day -> you are talking about optionality.. and to me, AlphaZero goes about optionality slightly differently. i mean, i know people say they dont understand my read progressions. yet, this is completely different to AZ where people distill his sandroba read as town, even though he has posts to defend he thought sandroba was scummy the actions do not line up with the words & it is the actions that i believe led people like me (maybe rayn) to mentalise that az townread sandroba I'm sorry, could I ask for clarification about what you mean here? Is this supposed to be a reason to suspect AlphaZero? Is it because he says things about being suspicious about sandroba but also is defending sandroba? Because that wasn't my interpretation of what happened tbh. damn right its a reason to be suspicious of anyone whose words dont match behaviours. that applies in real-life and in this game we call mafia. we all saw in d1 how calculated alphazero can be with his approach to command[/b[ attention.
the expectations for words and behaviour *should* be higher for az than in comparison to for example slam
its inexcusable that a player who command attention can have multiple people misread his intentions in such a push-pull way.
Again, i stress this is not the same as me. with me, people do not understand how i connect A to Y (chose now to right Z for AZ lol)
And yeah, i tsbecause clearly i seem to skip every letter inbetween and go ta-da
I'm not accusing AlphaZero of that at all.
I am accusing him that the pathway from A to B to C is too clean, meticulous and curated
Thats not town play. I guess I thought AlphaZero's stance on sandroba was pretty clear, but maybe I'm somehow the only one? I have a really hard time thinking about this as AlphaZero's fault instead of the rest of yours though, tbh. Unless that's not what you're saying, I'm a little confused because for the first 2/3 of the post you seem to be saying that AlphaZero is scummy because he failed to communicate his view on flipped mafia sandroba in a way that others can understand, and in the last 1/3 you seem to be saying that his play is too clean and that makes it look fake. I guess I'm just not sure which one it is, or is it both? But they seem a little mutually exclusive, no? Also, I really wouldn't recommend sheeping me, I have no idea what's what. You have been much more present and involved than I have for a while now, trust yourself. You're more than capable, you've got this.
Complete side note but... what if something stupid happened, like [b]sandroba saw his role PM and was like, "this sucks, I don't want to play as mafia" so he went to his mafia chat and was like, "hey guys I don't want to play as mafia, I'm gonna do next to nothing, just bus me" and then rsoultin busses him and we're so bad that we still don't lynch him and eventually sandroba flips and there are a lot of associative reasons to townread mafia members, just because sandroba didn't want to play as mafia? I don't mean to say that this is particularly likely, but I'd also say it's far from impossible, no? Maybe it's just me being bad at associate reads but I'd much, much, much rather read people mostly based on their own play. I just think there are so many fewer ways to screw it up.
I agree that this is possible.
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Dang it Koshi, you're just doing this to irritate me aren't you :/
##vote Koshi
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On June 14 2024 16:16 AlphaZero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:14 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 16:01 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:53 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:51 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:41 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off. That's fair and understandable. I think the most important part was the last paragraph about sandroba this game though? Do you disagree? I think it makes sense in the context that sandroba probably didn't expect to go afk for so long. I think it's quite reasonable for mafia to vote a partner early in a day tbh. If they can defend themselves, great, just say their defense makes sense and you changed your mind! If not, you have an early bus, and they probably weren't surviving anyway. Scott31337 being mafia doesn't feel right to me so I am open to that being wrong. I do have a little more confidence in the die_meatbaby vote. yeahi agree about voting early in the day -> you are talking about optionality.. and to me, AlphaZero goes about optionality slightly differently. i mean, i know people say they dont understand my read progressions. yet, this is completely different to AZ where people distill his sandroba read as town, even though he has posts to defend he thought sandroba was scummy the actions do not line up with the words & it is the actions that i believe led people like me (maybe rayn) to mentalise that az townread sandroba I'm sorry, could I ask for clarification about what you mean here? Is this supposed to be a reason to suspect AlphaZero? Is it because he says things about being suspicious about sandroba but also is defending sandroba? Because that wasn't my interpretation of what happened tbh. damn right its a reason to be suspicious of anyone whose words dont match behaviours. that applies in real-life and in this game we call mafia. we all saw in d1 how calculated alphazero can be with his approach to command[/b[ attention.
the expectations for words and behaviour *should* be higher for az than in comparison to for example slam
its inexcusable that a player who command attention can have multiple people misread his intentions in such a push-pull way.
Again, i stress this is not the same as me. with me, people do not understand how i connect A to Y (chose now to right Z for AZ lol)
And yeah, i tsbecause clearly i seem to skip every letter inbetween and go ta-da
I'm not accusing AlphaZero of that at all.
I am accusing him that the pathway from A to B to C is too clean, meticulous and curated
Thats not town play. I guess I thought AlphaZero's stance on sandroba was pretty clear, but maybe I'm somehow the only one? I have a really hard time thinking about this as AlphaZero's fault instead of the rest of yours though, tbh. Unless that's not what you're saying, I'm a little confused because for the first 2/3 of the post you seem to be saying that AlphaZero is scummy because he failed to communicate his view on flipped mafia sandroba in a way that others can understand, and in the last 1/3 you seem to be saying that his play is too clean and that makes it look fake. I guess I'm just not sure which one it is, or is it both? But they seem a little mutually exclusive, no? Also, I really wouldn't recommend sheeping me, I have no idea what's what. You have been much more present and involved than I have for a while now, trust yourself. You're more than capable, you've got this.
Complete side note but... what if something stupid happened, like sandroba saw his role PM and was like, "this sucks, I don't want to play as mafia" so he went to his mafia chat and was like, "hey guys I don't want to play as mafia, I'm gonna do next to nothing, just bus me" and then rsoultin busses him and we're so bad that we still don't lynch him and eventually sandroba flips and there are a lot of associative reasons to townread mafia members, just because sandroba didn't want to play as mafia?
I don't mean to say that this is particularly likely, but I'd also say it's far from impossible, no? Maybe it's just me being bad at associate reads but I'd much, much, much rather read people mostly based on their own play. I just think there are so many fewer ways to screw it up. I agree that this is possible.
Everything is possible. But can we lynch dmb today?
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On June 14 2024 16:17 Trfel wrote:
Dang it Koshi, you're just doing this to irritate me aren't you :/
##vote Koshi [b]
I wouldnt dare.
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Koshi why do you think mocsta is town based on that Appeal to emotion.
Because he is actually not playing in a way that aligns with that post.
I find his latter posts to lack emotional congruence with the rage quit post.
I guess I don;t get why you find it compelling.
Also what is it with your reads changing like leaves in the wind?
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia?
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On June 14 2024 16:18 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:16 AlphaZero wrote:On June 14 2024 16:14 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 16:01 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:53 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:51 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:41 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On June 14 2024 15:32 Trfel wrote:
Read your first post. I respect the work you put into it but I'm honestly not sure if there is a distinct difference that I would put a lot of confidence in. This may be due to my aversion to meta reads though.
I just don't like to clear someone if I am not 100% sure. I've seen so many games go awry due to clearing someone for poor reasons and then making up reasons to find other people mafia as a result. Imo if you just keep most people on the table and look for reasons to suspect people instead of reasons to clear people, you're better off. That's fair and understandable. I think the most important part was the last paragraph about sandroba this game though? Do you disagree? I think it makes sense in the context that sandroba probably didn't expect to go afk for so long. I think it's quite reasonable for mafia to vote a partner early in a day tbh. If they can defend themselves, great, just say their defense makes sense and you changed your mind! If not, you have an early bus, and they probably weren't surviving anyway. Scott31337 being mafia doesn't feel right to me so I am open to that being wrong. I do have a little more confidence in the die_meatbaby vote. yeahi agree about voting early in the day -> you are talking about optionality.. and to me, AlphaZero goes about optionality slightly differently. i mean, i know people say they dont understand my read progressions. yet, this is completely different to AZ where people distill his sandroba read as town, even though he has posts to defend he thought sandroba was scummy the actions do not line up with the words & it is the actions that i believe led people like me (maybe rayn) to mentalise that az townread sandroba I'm sorry, could I ask for clarification about what you mean here? Is this supposed to be a reason to suspect AlphaZero? Is it because he says things about being suspicious about sandroba but also is defending sandroba? Because that wasn't my interpretation of what happened tbh. damn right its a reason to be suspicious of anyone whose words dont match behaviours. that applies in real-life and in this game we call mafia. we all saw in d1 how calculated alphazero can be with his approach to command[/b[ attention.
the expectations for words and behaviour *should* be higher for az than in comparison to for example slam
its inexcusable that a player who command attention can have multiple people misread his intentions in such a push-pull way.
Again, i stress this is not the same as me. with me, people do not understand how i connect A to Y (chose now to right Z for AZ lol)
And yeah, i tsbecause clearly i seem to skip every letter inbetween and go ta-da
I'm not accusing AlphaZero of that at all.
I am accusing him that the pathway from A to B to C is too clean, meticulous and curated
Thats not town play. I guess I thought AlphaZero's stance on sandroba was pretty clear, but maybe I'm somehow the only one? I have a really hard time thinking about this as AlphaZero's fault instead of the rest of yours though, tbh. Unless that's not what you're saying, I'm a little confused because for the first 2/3 of the post you seem to be saying that AlphaZero is scummy because he failed to communicate his view on flipped mafia sandroba in a way that others can understand, and in the last 1/3 you seem to be saying that his play is too clean and that makes it look fake. I guess I'm just not sure which one it is, or is it both? But they seem a little mutually exclusive, no? Also, I really wouldn't recommend sheeping me, I have no idea what's what. You have been much more present and involved than I have for a while now, trust yourself. You're more than capable, you've got this.
Complete side note but... what if something stupid happened, like sandroba saw his role PM and was like, "this sucks, I don't want to play as mafia" so he went to his mafia chat and was like, "hey guys I don't want to play as mafia, I'm gonna do next to nothing, just bus me" and then rsoultin busses him and we're so bad that we still don't lynch him and eventually sandroba flips and there are a lot of associative reasons to townread mafia members, just because sandroba didn't want to play as mafia?
I don't mean to say that this is particularly likely, but I'd also say it's far from impossible, no? Maybe it's just me being bad at associate reads but I'd much, much, much rather read people mostly based on their own play. I just think there are so many fewer ways to screw it up. I agree that this is possible. Everything is possible. But can we lynch dmb today?
I'd rather vote with rayn on my own scum read thanks. Cause at least he builds a proper case. you are just saying whatever.
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On June 14 2024 16:18 AlphaZero wrote:
(...)
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia? Hey, can't argue with results!
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On June 14 2024 16:18 AlphaZero wrote:
Koshi why do you think mocsta is town based on that Appeal to emotion.
Because he is actually not playing in a way that aligns with that post.
I find his latter posts to lack emotional congruence with the rage quit post.
I guess I don;t get why you find it compelling.
Also what is it with your reads changing like leaves in the wind?
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia?
Yes.
I think dmb is mafia.
Anybody who is with me early on this is town.
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Damned.
RAYN I am sure dmb is mafia. Can we pls pls pls lynch her and I will lynch your target tomorrow.
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@Koshi:On June 09 2024 16:40 Koshi wrote:
Yeah we lynch sandroba->Mocsta (->Koshi) -> marv On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
So we can lynch them first and then battle it out. This is just a random thing I thought of a while ago, but can you explain this?
Let's imagine for a moment that you have transcended the bounds of possibility and were right on all these reads. How then, do you presume to lynch mafia!sandroba and mafia!Mocsta and go into a showdown with mafia!marvellosity, after you called out the entire mafia team three days previously, and not somehow get night killed along the way?
Or is this whole thing just fake?
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On June 14 2024 16:21 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:18 AlphaZero wrote:
Koshi why do you think mocsta is town based on that Appeal to emotion.
Because he is actually not playing in a way that aligns with that post.
I find his latter posts to lack emotional congruence with the rage quit post.
I guess I don;t get why you find it compelling.
Also what is it with your reads changing like leaves in the wind?
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia? Yes. I think dmb is mafia. Anybody who is with me early on this is town. Hey, free townreads! Come and get them 
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On June 14 2024 16:23 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:21 Koshi wrote:On June 14 2024 16:18 AlphaZero wrote:
Koshi why do you think mocsta is town based on that Appeal to emotion.
Because he is actually not playing in a way that aligns with that post.
I find his latter posts to lack emotional congruence with the rage quit post.
I guess I don;t get why you find it compelling.
Also what is it with your reads changing like leaves in the wind?
you have literally implied almost the whole game could be mafia at this point, is this like a strat to quote yourself and show you were right when literally anyone flips mafia? Yes. I think dmb is mafia. Anybody who is with me early on this is town. Hey, free townreads! Come and get them
Terrible...
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On June 14 2024 16:22 Trfel wrote:@Koshi: Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 16:40 Koshi wrote:
Yeah we lynch sandroba->Mocsta (->Koshi) -> marv Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. Show nested quote +On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
So we can lynch them first and then battle it out. This is just a random thing I thought of a while ago, but can you explain this? Let's imagine for a moment that you have transcended the bounds of possibility and were right on all these reads. How then, do you presume to lynch mafia!sandroba and mafia!Mocsta and go into a showdown with mafia!marvellosity, after you called out the entire mafia team three days previously, and not somehow get night killed along the way? Or is this whole thing just fake?
[/b]
Exavtly. I already said it once. If it is Mocsta why am I not dead yet. Then rayn just insulted everybod and their mothers iirc.
But it isnt Mocsta. It is sandroba dmb and a mystery man
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On June 14 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:22 Trfel wrote:@Koshi: On June 09 2024 16:40 Koshi wrote:
Yeah we lynch sandroba->Mocsta (->Koshi) -> marv On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
So we can lynch them first and then battle it out. This is just a random thing I thought of a while ago, but can you explain this? Let's imagine for a moment that you have transcended the bounds of possibility and were right on all these reads. How then, do you presume to lynch mafia!sandroba and mafia!Mocsta and go into a showdown with mafia!marvellosity, after you called out the entire mafia team three days previously, and not somehow get night killed along the way? Or is this whole thing just fake? Exavtly. I already said it once. If it is Mocsta why am I not dead yet. Then rayn just insulted everybod and their mothers iirc. But it isnt Mocsta. It is sandroba dmb and a mystery man Not my point though. I'm saying that I don't understand how you could have made these posts at this time. You're planning out a future that just isn't possible from a town perspective.
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build the DMB case properly then Koshi. If you are so convinced she is mafia then that is the best way to get others on board.
Just make a case that is undeniable.
Instead of just saying it.
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On June 14 2024 16:27 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:On June 14 2024 16:22 Trfel wrote:@Koshi: On June 09 2024 16:40 Koshi wrote:
Yeah we lynch sandroba->Mocsta (->Koshi) -> marv On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
So we can lynch them first and then battle it out. This is just a random thing I thought of a while ago, but can you explain this? Let's imagine for a moment that you have transcended the bounds of possibility and were right on all these reads. How then, do you presume to lynch mafia!sandroba and mafia!Mocsta and go into a showdown with mafia!marvellosity, after you called out the entire mafia team three days previously, and not somehow get night killed along the way? Or is this whole thing just fake? Exavtly. I already said it once. If it is Mocsta why am I not dead yet. Then rayn just insulted everybod and their mothers iirc. But it isnt Mocsta. It is sandroba dmb and a mystery man Not my point though. I'm saying that I don't understand how you could have made these posts at this time. You're planning out a future that just isn't possible from a town perspective.
Hmmm? Sure is possible. I think 3 people are mafia, I think who is the easiest to kill first, then repeat 2 times.
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On June 14 2024 16:27 AlphaZero wrote:
build the DMB case properly then Koshi. If you are so convinced she is mafia then that is the best way to get others on board.
Just make a case that is undeniable.
Instead of just saying it.
No. I dont like that.
I suddenly have these shivers when I think about rayn.
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On June 14 2024 16:29 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:27 AlphaZero wrote:
build the DMB case properly then Koshi. If you are so convinced she is mafia then that is the best way to get others on board.
Just make a case that is undeniable.
Instead of just saying it. No. I dont like that. I suddenly have these shivers when I think about rayn.
You are too all over the place to be honest.
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On June 14 2024 16:28 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2024 16:27 Trfel wrote:On June 14 2024 16:24 Koshi wrote:On June 14 2024 16:22 Trfel wrote:@Koshi: On June 09 2024 16:40 Koshi wrote:
Yeah we lynch sandroba->Mocsta (->Koshi) -> marv On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
I am 100% convinced you are mafia. But I will lynch you last because your filter is huge.
Sandroba and Mocsta are both mafia and I think we agree on that. On June 09 2024 17:00 Koshi wrote:
So we can lynch them first and then battle it out. This is just a random thing I thought of a while ago, but can you explain this? Let's imagine for a moment that you have transcended the bounds of possibility and were right on all these reads. How then, do you presume to lynch mafia!sandroba and mafia!Mocsta and go into a showdown with mafia!marvellosity, after you called out the entire mafia team three days previously, and not somehow get night killed along the way? Or is this whole thing just fake? Exavtly. I already said it once. If it is Mocsta why am I not dead yet. Then rayn just insulted everybod and their mothers iirc. But it isnt Mocsta. It is sandroba dmb and a mystery man Not my point though. I'm saying that I don't understand how you could have made these posts at this time. You're planning out a future that just isn't possible from a town perspective. Hmmm? Sure is possible. I think 3 people are mafia, I think who is the easiest to kill first, then repeat 2 times. Sure, if you conveniently ignore the fact that mafia would just night kill you.
It makes me wonder if you are mafia and you came up with the people you wanted to push and then this was natural from your mindset, since mafia don't really have to worry about getting shot? You can't seriously tell me you are town and expected to lynch three mafia in a row without getting shot first?
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if rayn is mafia that is not something we need to deal with or think about now.
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EPT
