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Trfel and DP are definitely talking past each other and I'm like 98% convinced it's 2 townies fighting.
Trfel made it sound like DP was leaning town on me because I was leaning mafia on marv, which was definitely not the case since he was commenting on my posts from before that.
DP was saying he wasn't saying he was leaning town on me while reading his posts points to the contrary.
Probably better to focus both their efforts on vivax, marv, hf (?)
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Ah, also palmar likely town now
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I don't see anything wrong with Koshi, I like all of his reads
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On December 11 2023 11:22 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 09:24 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:27 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:18 DarthPunk wrote:On December 10 2023 21:06 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 17:14 DarthPunk wrote:
The level 1 analysis of this is that a player is being aggressive early, not afraid to post and that would be good for Trfel. My initial feelings reading the post was that it felt forced, with a lot of generic statements to try and make Sandroba's post seeem worse than it was.
I disagree that at the point of the game in which we are right now, that everything said needs to progress the game in a meaningful way. Sure, I would like that to be the case, but I also don't think that someone being non-committal is alignment indicative, in fact, someone being strongly committed early tends to make me lean mafia more than town, Town are trying to figure shit out at the start and are more curious than committed. DarthPunk, care to explain this? What exactly do you want me to explain about it? You said that being aggressive early is good, right? I assume good meaning town-indicative, as opposed to mafia-indicative. So why then is someone being strongly committed a mafia trait? Does that mean that if someone is aggressive early but not committed then that indicates town? That doesn't make much sense to me, why would someone be aggressive without commitment, in fact how is that even possible? I forgot to respond to this. Essentially, when you are playing with people who are new, aggressiveness signals confidence in prosecuting a scum hunting agenda, townies are less refined in what they are looking for, and will see something that is potentially scummy and attack. This is why on a surface level *level 1* early aggression is a town trait, and I think this holds true for newer players. What I think is that as people develop in skill and understanding, aggression becomes a *tool* that is wielded, either by town to determine alignments or by mafia to hide in plain sight and push mis lynches in a way that is *too obvious to be scum* The general differentiator in my opinion, is that town aggression tends to be built on curiosity and inquisitiveness, and mafia aggression tends to be built on decisions that have already been made. Therefore, when I said you were too committed early, I was saying that you were aggressive in a way that seemed like you were prosecuting an agenda to find Sandro scummy, rather than curious about the reasoning behind his post. Essentially, town want to find truth without agenda. Scum wants to advance their agenda without in spite of truth. The reason I find you scummy is that you are aggressive without curiosity. And what follows are pushes without foundation. Decent post for DP
Agreed good post, but I think this applies much more to marv's posts about me. What do you think DP?
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His thought process, although I'm not in agreeance with it, kinda feels natural to me. He is pretty much going against the people who have found him suspicious, or who are going against what he believes is the narrative that makes sense. He moves on eventually to other people, it does look like he is trying to figure out the game. His post here on Vivax is pretty spot on and also my issue with Vivax:
On December 11 2023 03:04 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2023 22:47 marvellosity wrote:On December 10 2023 21:24 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 21:16 DarthPunk wrote:It just seems to me that you came roaring out of the gate with a huge case, based on some nitpicking really early in the thread, and you end up going nowhere on anything which is the essence of what the case you wrote on Sandro in the first place. Now fair enough, sandroba hasn't been around so you haven't been able to pursue things further. But your level of aggression just didn't really match with what was going on in the thread at the time, which you kind of acknowledge at the start of said post. On December 10 2023 13:25 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 12:49 sandroba wrote:
Hi everyone, excited to be playing a game after being away from Mafia for so long! I believe I have some familiarity with most if not all players on the list, although I might be very outdated in accessing their meta.
So far we have Alakaslam who I feel is posting within what I expected, not leaning one way or the other based on his initial posts. I like the poking about smiles being sus, but at the same time, it's phrased as a question so there is a bit of avoidance in there as well. Again, not very telling.
For Trfel, some might say I'm nit-picking, but I don't like the self-demeaning tone about his performance right out of the gate. Also, some generic advice and deadlines which sounds like trying to say something just to fit in. This could be understandable because we are mostly trying to generate some content at this point and get the discussion going, but this advice at this point so far away from the deadline doesn't do us much good at face value or as a conversation starter. Leaning suspicious from what I've seen so far. I guess instead of waiting I'll let the cat out of the bag, I'm impatient. It's almost like an apology, like what were you waiting for? And now you are kind of backtracking, which also doesn't match with the way you lead out originally. it's all quite jarring to me. I assume you are talking to me, I am having a bit of trouble understanding what you are actually getting at here though. Yes, I think sandroba is suspicious. No, I wouldn't wager high stakes on it. He's one of the people I'm most interested in (along with Alakaslam and perhaps yourself and an off-chance of Vivax, but I'm not certain yet. I posted the way I did to try and figure out sandroba's alignment (and eventually everyone else's). Just because I'm not very confident yet doesn't mean that I can't figure things out and investigate and that sort of thing. I didn't bring any aggression, that's just me trying to ask questions and figure things out. If there is anything you'd like me to clear up please don't hesitate to ask, I'm just having a bit of trouble understanding this post though, it feels a bit nebulous to me. Wanna tell me about this, Trfel? Part of it is Vivax's first post ( here), which we discussed briefly. I didn't like how weak his questioning to sandroba feels, Vivax recognized the issues with sandroba's post but didn't seem to want to challenge sandroba over it or actually do anything with this knowledge. The other thing was that Vivax's posts didn't seem to have any order, he pulled quotes from seemingly random points in the thread. I can't follow the thought process that leads him to bring up the things he did, and especially not in that order. This isn't necessarily mafia indicative, it just feels weird and I'm not sure what to make of it yet. Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 02:48 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 19:47 Trfel wrote:On December 10 2023 15:12 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 11:36 Alakaslam wrote:On December 10 2023 10:55 Chezinu wrote:On December 10 2023 09:57 iamperfection wrote:On December 10 2023 06:11 Chezinu wrote:
Let me know if yall want me to role-play a character. your not role playing a character when you normally play ? A specific character Chezinu Izunizehc! Hey Guys! I'm Chezinu! Hi Chezinu, I'm Trfel! Hope you have been well these past few years. Hello Mr. Truffles!! I haven't eaten a truffle in a few years. However, I have embarked on a journey to the Citdal to understand the underworlings of the sentinels. I'm in deep. Deep within beyond the convulsional layers form by the kernels. I will try and send you photos of my findings. I eagerly await your report.
Correctly points out that Vivax is not following the thread, missing some key points and explanations and just assembling together some quotes to justify a vote.
He then fails to see how this is mafia indicative, but just the fact that he called this out gives him lots of townie points.
It is indeed mafia behavior because of how Vivax is trying to blend in with thread sentiment, appearing to be putting in effort, but struggling to justify something he knows is not true.
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On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote:
There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter.
It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle.
This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing.
In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons"
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@marv you never elaborated on what's so bad about my opening post, nor I see you trying to engage with me on anything and trying to get a read off me
@palmar not sure why you are including me in your scum teams either
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On December 12 2023 00:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 23:56 sandroba wrote:
@marv you never elaborated on what's so bad about my opening post, nor I see you trying to engage with me on anything and trying to get a read off me
@palmar not sure why you are including me in your scum teams either I have no need to engage with you as at the moment you haven’t given me a single reason to think you’re town
Same here, but I'm still trying to engage. Having a hard time attributing why you are being so dismissive and disengaged to anything other than you being mafia.
We haven't played together in a long time I would expect nostalgia to motivate you somewhat to want to play with me (at least it does on my end), but I'm seeing some incongruency from my expectations of how you would behave.
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On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
Trfel are you around?
Can you give me your updated reads now you are voting vivax I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin.
Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me.
Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter.
Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore.
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On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote:
There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter.
It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle. This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today.
The main reason I though you looked town is that you were trying to get traction on vivax, who I thought was likely mafia - not that you were super town and because of that vivax should be mafia - that doesn't make any sense, and I wouldn't trust you without being convinced myself even if I though you were town.
Sharing my reasoning there helps me clarify and reassess my thoughts, get feedback from the thread which helps my read and getting reads off others and also helps to convice other players of my desired lynch, all pro town things.
The way you are trying to set this up and your reasoning is not making any sense, it feels either like pushing mafia agenda or if you had a pre conceived notion that I must be mafia, which I'm trying to get to the bottom of
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On December 12 2023 00:19 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote:On December 11 2023 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
Trfel are you around?
Can you give me your updated reads now you are voting vivax I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin. Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me. Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter. Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore.
@marv comment please
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On December 12 2023 00:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 00:19 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 16:57 Trfel wrote:On December 11 2023 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
Trfel are you around?
Can you give me your updated reads now you are voting vivax I'm asleep. I think Vivax is the best chance at mafia. His play is very underwhelming and uninspired, in contrast to his town play where he is capable of being a very strong player. He also seems to not care about his relatively poor performance/lack of investmemt. Sandroba and Koshi might be worth considering but I think I like lynching Vivax more by a decent margin. Trfel I had been leaning town from the burst of engagement, but this post really set off some alarms for me. Vivax mentioned that he was weary from the bottom feeders on his wagon, and if I was town Vivax I would definitely be all over this post in particular. The wording, tone and reasoning on this post don't seem to match the rest of his filter. Seems like a formal way to justify a vote, looks like it's fabricated and a chore. It’s a bit over wordy maybe, but so is most of his filter. Out of curiosity then, how would you have expected him to place a vote?
Not sure, it just feels off to me. Now your turn give me something unique
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marv is just mafia. too lazy to make an effort, which doesn't make sense given how cool this game could be
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On December 12 2023 00:45 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 00:44 sandroba wrote:On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote:
There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter.
It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle. This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today. The main reason I though you looked town is that you were trying to get traction on vivax, who I thought was likely mafia - not that you were super town and because of that vivax should be mafia - that doesn't make any sense, and I wouldn't trust you without being convinced myself even if I though you were town. Sharing my reasoning there helps me clarify and reassess my thoughts, get feedback from the thread which helps my read and getting reads off others and also helps to convice other players of my desired lynch, all pro town things. The way you are trying to set this up and your reasoning is not making any sense, it feels either like pushing mafia agenda or if you had a pre conceived notion that I must be mafia, which I'm trying to get to the bottom of shush the town people are talking. Be a good boy and keep your vote on Vivax.
I net you are getting a kick out of this
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On December 12 2023 01:06 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 01:04 sandroba wrote:On December 12 2023 00:45 Palmar wrote:On December 12 2023 00:44 sandroba wrote:On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote:
There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter.
It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle. This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today. The main reason I though you looked town is that you were trying to get traction on vivax, who I thought was likely mafia - not that you were super town and because of that vivax should be mafia - that doesn't make any sense, and I wouldn't trust you without being convinced myself even if I though you were town. Sharing my reasoning there helps me clarify and reassess my thoughts, get feedback from the thread which helps my read and getting reads off others and also helps to convice other players of my desired lynch, all pro town things. The way you are trying to set this up and your reasoning is not making any sense, it feels either like pushing mafia agenda or if you had a pre conceived notion that I must be mafia, which I'm trying to get to the bottom of shush the town people are talking. Be a good boy and keep your vote on Vivax. I net you are getting a kick out of this (This post implies knowledge of Palmars alignment) What is this game? Palmar's playground? Did he run out of board games ?
Palmar is getting a kick of just talking down to me, probably a bigger kick if he is mafia steering the game
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Meh, I'm willing to admit there is a chance Vivax is town. I think there is a much smaller chance marv is ever town here
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On December 12 2023 01:22 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2023 01:18 sandroba wrote:On December 12 2023 01:06 Vivax wrote:On December 12 2023 01:04 sandroba wrote:On December 12 2023 00:45 Palmar wrote:On December 12 2023 00:44 sandroba wrote:On December 12 2023 00:32 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2023 23:52 sandroba wrote:On December 11 2023 22:47 Vivax wrote:
There's nothing exonerating Sandro in his filter.
It's mostly just generic reasons to call me mafia and he can't even find the text pieces to prove what he's saying. I've been far from a blend-in playstyle. This post here also shows a mafia mindset, not arguing against the substance of what I'm saying, which is that his first post he did not read the thread and tried to reach a conclusion about my alignment, but instead he followed thread sentiment and quoted I few things from my post to appear to be contributing. In the post above he dismisses it as generic and quibbles about me not finding text pieces, which is classic mafia sentiment for "you are accusing me for the wrong reasons" This btw is a genuinely very scummy post. Not because of it's context but because of the thought process behind it. Sandroba can easily just say "well Palmar looks town so I go murder train on Vivax", but instead he does "independent research" and comes to the same conclusion to justify his vote. It's forced "case". This is a scummy post if Vivax flips mafia and it's also scummy if Vivax flips town. But the good thing is that it locks in Sandroba's vote on Vivax so I don't care for now. Can only lynch one dude today. The main reason I though you looked town is that you were trying to get traction on vivax, who I thought was likely mafia - not that you were super town and because of that vivax should be mafia - that doesn't make any sense, and I wouldn't trust you without being convinced myself even if I though you were town. Sharing my reasoning there helps me clarify and reassess my thoughts, get feedback from the thread which helps my read and getting reads off others and also helps to convice other players of my desired lynch, all pro town things. The way you are trying to set this up and your reasoning is not making any sense, it feels either like pushing mafia agenda or if you had a pre conceived notion that I must be mafia, which I'm trying to get to the bottom of shush the town people are talking. Be a good boy and keep your vote on Vivax. I net you are getting a kick out of this (This post implies knowledge of Palmars alignment) What is this game? Palmar's playground? Did he run out of board games ? Palmar is getting a kick of just talking down to me, probably a bigger kick if he is mafia steering the game And what of the two is he in your opinion? It's two different types of kicks you are talking about, you phrased it as just one type. Because it was phrased for mafia Palmar getting me mislynched but you have a townread on him. You're keeping it deliberately ambiguous now because you just gave away that you had the impression of a one-sided kick as if you knew his alignment.
If you are mafia, I think palmar is prob town. If you are town, I'm neutral - wouldn't put it past palmar to be doing that as mafia the way he is setting things up, but he just as easily could be town and trying to get his suspicions lynched.
Palmar as town would be getting a kick that post regardless of my alignment I believe, moreso if he thinks I'm mafia, as he just enjoys being condescending.
As scum, he just seems to like to randomly antagonize me, like the last time we played in assassination mafia
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On December 12 2023 01:56 marvellosity wrote:
Also, re: sandro.
He asked me to engage, and gave me some bleh nonsense about not liking Trfel’s vote on him, but could not come up with a way he would expect Trfel to vote as a townie.
In his filter though, he does quote a post from Trfel and goes to quite some length to explain how townie a post it is.
I don’t believe he goes from the first post explaining to why Trfel is likely town, to a complete nothing post shovelling suspicion on Trfel.
I would provide the 2 quotes but as usual these days I am not in a laptop so it’s too difficult. But if you’re reading this dear town, please do take a look and see what I mean.
I quoted a post I would 100% expect you to agree on and find it suspicious. Nobody else had mentioned that post and I was expecting you to have some commentary, but instead you just dismissed it and asked me something irrelevant like what I think Trfle would post like if he was a towny voting. I dunno, like something I read and don't think sounds forced? I'm not comparing it to an imaginary trfel post, just reading it along with his filter and feeling it's off. Not sure why you would ask me to imagine a townie post instead of reflecting on the actual post itself.
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EPT
