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On June 06 2020 09:49 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2020 19:10 jeekaka wrote:And that detail about Zey: On June 05 2020 05:33 Zey wrote:Jock wrote:
I'm considering switching to copcake right now.
Reasons:
The voting late on which looks like self preservation, the threat to switch to trfel which i think comes from a mafia place (ensuring 3 votes on trfel because i was getting cold feet about the lynch), the early townread on me followed by reassuring me into keeping my vote on vivax. It all seems very convenient. Hmm, wasn't Cake getting cold feet before you even mentioned you were getting? Half an hour later Jock is dead. I just think subconsciously you probably would not start questioning someone who you know is not gonna be there to answer. Jeekaka, I think you are probably town (you've raised points that are actually decent), but I highly disagree with this. I know before that as mafia I have posted large cases on people that I was night-killing at the deadline, to make the night kill less associated with me. I don't think this is a valid point at all and would encourage you to re-evaluate your read on Zey.
I thought about it, as it could have been faked, but it is not a huge case, it's not even a case, it's just a question, it's barely noticeable. Self centered me just noticed it because I was very worried when you didn't mention me at all N1 and I was very much worried of being NK X)
In our home forum you cannot post at night, but of course Zey could have still thought of it, or scum buddy could have adviced her. But in that case I think it could be more clearly formatted as Zey being suspicious of Jock.
But I try not to put too much weight on this.
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On June 06 2020 09:34 Trfel wrote:
Oh, and who was it that accused me of having too low of an accuracy of scumreads? Yes I was wrong on CopCake, and for that I apologize, but being wrong in one read on Day 1 isn't that noteworthy honestly. Kinda annoyed at that reason to scumread me. Almost seems dumb enough I might OMGUS it.
That was probably me :D But I was just joking about that town hero thing, because that actually would only make sense if Cake actually had been wolf, as even if Vivax is vanilla town too his flip would have made so much more sense as now everybody keeps suspecting him even more and he's apparently unmotivated because of it.
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Hey jeekaka, any thoughts about who to vote for? Any thoughts on my scumreads?
Honestly I'm really disappointed at having no feedback or thoughts, then people are just going to come back tomorrow and lynch me for not contributing  It's really discouraging. I wish I could at least talk to people but it doesn't seem like that is the case.
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I think your scumreads are decent, actually i listed Shock/Zey in my possible scum pairs as well.
Mostly I just wonder about you and Vivax hard townreading each other. You yourself admit it's very reasonable to suspect you - what do you think about Vivax not suspecting you at all?
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Also if you could address me to Vivax's original thoughts, preferably good ones.
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On June 06 2020 14:18 jeekaka wrote:
I think your scumreads are decent, actually i listed Shock/Zey in my possible scum pairs as well.
Mostly I just wonder about you and Vivax hard townreading each other. You yourself admit it's very reasonable to suspect you - what do you think about Vivax not suspecting you at all? I don't want to dive deep into self-meta since I think self-meta is a very ridiculous thing. As in, typically it's too much to expect other people to fully understand/recognize/believe it.
Vivax knows my play fairly well, he was actually my coach in my first mafia game here. He knows I've had my share of effortful and lazy games. Furthermore I don't think he's calling me town, I believe he's more saying I'm null, which is (imo) a reasonable stance. See here (bold):On June 05 2020 22:54 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2020 22:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:On June 05 2020 03:53 Vivax wrote:
Will consider looking into him a bit harder.
But basically he's been very townie last game and lynched regardless, so maybe now he cba to try too hard.
But that's the point, he's not trying to look like he's trying hard and the way he casually called out rayn felt townie to me.
As mafia he was more...Contributive, but in a quantity over quality way. While he talked about a lot of stuff you didn't get a picture of where his head was at, much like I feel about TT this game. Did you look into Trfel or not?  Yep. Doesn't shift me particularly either way.His rayn scumread-ish is interesting but not worth putting much weight into if he doesn't pursue it further. I'm still in a TT+zey world. I'm reading Vivax more town than he's reading me. But both of us have other targets we feel are better lynches, to me that seems fine.
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On June 04 2020 02:07 Vivax wrote:
What do you peeps think of zeys read progression on Trfel? Reads a bit like she got talked into it. On June 04 2020 03:16 Vivax wrote:
And shockeyy as mafia is more disinterested and less shitposty and reactive.
You need to really be on him constantly to pull info out of him On June 05 2020 02:53 Vivax wrote:
I encourage peeps to look at TT's filter. It's kinda telling at quick glance.
- Settles for a very early cop townread.
- Agrees with cop early on Shockeyy being scum.
- His followup before deadline doesn't reflect any intention of directing the lynch either way, when he really should have a clear cut opinion of what the game should be doing.
- Most posts are rather focused at discussing stuff from all sorts of topics. Like asking me about what I was saying about cake, but not really coming out with something from it that would make him say I'm wrong and cake is town. Or I'm mafia and cake is town. He just kinda okay's the replies he gets and minds his own business.
- Instead asks me why he should consider zey, then asks Jock why he should consider me. Two posts he's doubting his Trfel read, then his read on me.
He has a very hands-off approach to the game. He did look at zey but didn't come out with a conclusion, just a question of whether zey thinks he's scum. Then he voted me for the sake of not voting cop. Again, easy out.
You don't get the feeling TT analyzes posts and asks question to reach a clear-cut way of seeing the game that he can stick to and influence the lynch the way he likes. It's really just a pretense to be insecure, while usually that should push townies towards reconsidering things in a hurry, he appears more calm and mechanical.
Shouldn't he have had a clear opinion to lynch Shockeyy considering he was questioning my townread on him?
That read just sort of went away towards the end and he was just contemplating Trfel, myself, even after I apparently swayed him that Shock could be town.
tl;dr: I don't think Ticktock has a real opinion on things and he's struggling to make it look like he does. On June 05 2020 03:53 Vivax wrote:
Will consider looking into him a bit harder.
But basically he's been very townie last game and lynched regardless, so maybe now he cba to try too hard.
But that's the point, he's not trying to look like he's trying hard and the way he casually called out rayn felt townie to me.
As mafia he was more...Contributive, but in a quantity over quality way. While he talked about a lot of stuff you didn't get a picture of where his head was at, much like I feel about TT this game.
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You read Shock and Tictock very differently than Vivax though.
What are your thoughts of them in comparison to Vivax's thoughts you just quoted?
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On June 06 2020 14:34 jeekaka wrote:
You read Shock and Tictock very differently than Vivax though.
What are your thoughts of them in comparison to Vivax's thoughts you just quoted? I'm kinda reconsidering my Tictock read currently, instigated by what Vivax is bringing up.
ShoCkeyy is really hard to read, I understand where Vivax is coming from and it makes me question my read on ShoCkeyy too. I think Vivax's read makes sense even if I disagree with it to some extent.
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On June 06 2020 14:27 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2020 14:18 jeekaka wrote:
I think your scumreads are decent, actually i listed Shock/Zey in my possible scum pairs as well.
Mostly I just wonder about you and Vivax hard townreading each other. You yourself admit it's very reasonable to suspect you - what do you think about Vivax not suspecting you at all? I don't want to dive deep into self-meta since I think self-meta is a very ridiculous thing. As in, typically it's too much to expect other people to fully understand/recognize/believe it. Vivax knows my play fairly well, he was actually my coach in my first mafia game here. He knows I've had my share of effortful and lazy games. Furthermore I don't think he's calling me town, I believe he's more saying I'm null, which is (imo) a reasonable stance. See here (bold): Show nested quote +On June 05 2020 22:54 Vivax wrote:On June 05 2020 22:51 ShoCkeyy wrote:On June 05 2020 03:53 Vivax wrote:
Will consider looking into him a bit harder.
But basically he's been very townie last game and lynched regardless, so maybe now he cba to try too hard.
But that's the point, he's not trying to look like he's trying hard and the way he casually called out rayn felt townie to me.
As mafia he was more...Contributive, but in a quantity over quality way. While he talked about a lot of stuff you didn't get a picture of where his head was at, much like I feel about TT this game. Did you look into Trfel or not? Yep. Doesn't shift me particularly either way.His rayn scumread-ish is interesting but not worth putting much weight into if he doesn't pursue it further. I'm still in a TT+zey world. I'm reading Vivax more town than he's reading me. But both of us have other targets we feel are better lynches, to me that seems fine.
Maybe Vivax could clarify this himself?
Because to me it really seems he does not think you're null. D1 he townreads you, N1 he says he does not have any reason to think his former townreads are scum, he even calls you a town hero. Re-checking you does not shift him either way.
(But ok maybe you are right, more than townreading you he's probably just decided to stick to his PoE and not ever look anywhere else.)
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Have you re-evaluated Tictock lately? What do you think of the concerns Vivax and I have expressed about him?
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Trfel... idk man. I actually like your recent string of posting, though I kinda hate your Sho vote for reasons I'm gunna fuck up articulating atm. + Show Spoiler [attempt] +I can't help but feel Trfel is appealing the fact that I voted Sho D1 and started the current wagon on him
Multiple things make it like 99% likely you and Vivax are the scumteam here, like I'm pretty sure you even made some excuse for this not being Vivax's scumgame when I've heard multiple refferences to scum!Vivax playing a a rough but successful mafia game in the last game by breaking meta. His play this game makes a ton of sense to me as burnt out scum!vax not willing to make the effort again. Even besides Vivax though your EoD play and followup posts really make it hard to not see you as mafia here.
However, I do like what you've been posting and encourage you to keep it up. I'd like your opinion on one thing from today.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 05 2020 21:54 Zey wrote:Show nested quote +Tictock wrote:
Just going off of filter I'd say Trfel going for cake actually kinda makes sense since he had questioned her early/easy townread of Jock. How it makes sense? Yeah he asked her reasoning, but here it sounds to me like he was okay with her answering: Show nested quote +Trfel wrote:
I asked CopCake about her townread on Jockmcplop because she didn't say a key part of it, that Jockmcplop's post felt genuine/sincere. Without that statement, there is no actual reason to townread Jockmcplop. I know it wasn't likely to really go anywhere, but it's the start of the game, I'll jump on anything I can And according to him even Rayns hi was more scummy than Cakes townread of Jock. AND he admitted that 4 minutes before he suggestes lynching Cake he was kinda thinking that Cake is town. So how it makes sense?? On June 05 2020 22:13 Zey wrote:Show nested quote +Tictock wrote:
I said I had stuff to say about Trfel, and to be honest Zey and Jeeka pretty much hit on it already but I'll briefly go over what I saw. Show nested quote +Tictock wrote:
Just going off of filter I'd say Trfel going for cake actually kinda makes sense since he had questioned her early/easy townread of Jock. How I "pretty much hit on it" if the only thing I was saying was "Trfel going for cake doesn't make sense" and you are saying that you believe that it made sense? On June 06 2020 03:34 Zey wrote:Show nested quote +Tictock wrote:
When I said "from Trfel's filter the cake read kinda makes sense" what I meant is that his cake read didn't just appear or change when he reappeared. In my opinion it did just appear. Even if you forget what he said N1 and D1 on the last hour, still. I don't see any hint that Trfel would think that Cake is scum. Like here: Show nested quote +Trfel wrote:
I asked CopCake about her townread on Jockmcplop because she didn't say a key part of it, that Jockmcplop's post felt genuine/sincere. Without that statement, there is no actual reason to townread Jockmcplop. (1) I know it wasn't likely to really go anywhere, but it's the start of the game, I'll jump on anything I can Just like raynpelikoneet's entrance. (2)To me it was the worst entrance at that point in the thread, because he didn't interact with anyone despite several people having already posted. (3)But it's not a big deal and I don't think much of it. (1) If I'm understanding this right he is saying that his question to Cake didn't lead to any opinion about her and there wasn't even really a change to lead anywhere. (2) Trfel is saying that even rayns hi was scummier than Cakes townread on Jock. And (3) he doesn't really think that even that was scummy. So how you are thinking that Cake read didn't just appear? On June 06 2020 04:18 Zey wrote:I think it is possible. Looking to Tictocks filter I don't see anything to make it impossible. I mean he didn't suspect Trfel until N1 and then Trfel had drawn attention to himself already.
Thoughts on that series of posts, and general interaction.
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Oh and re my read on Sho...
I'm kinda just living in the world where he's town due to Trfel/Vivax being scum... and I'm ok with it? I kinda dropped him from my world view for a bit near EoD and he's become a sortof white noise to the thread for me since....
Lol thinking about it now I know Sho has said things today, but I'm having a hard time thinking what any of it was >.<
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I started to vote for ShoCkeyy because I thought he was the most suspicious person. If I really wanted to save myself here I would scumread Vivax. But my best read on Vivax is not mafia.
I am not sure if I will continue voting for ShoCkeyy, mostly because I am starting to get suspicious of TicTock. But I am not sure if there is a better target I don't know.
I didn't make any excuse for Vivax, I just don't really think he is mafia here. I explained it in the previous page.
Do you want to know my thoughts on that discussion as it relates to my alignment, or Zey's, or what? Honestly I kinda skimmed that part because it was hard for me to understand what people were saying As far as it relates to my alignment, I tried to answer it last page. I did come up with my scumread on CopCake out of thin air, in a matter of minutes. I had to, it was coming down to the deadline, there was no time for more. And I did feel like raynpelikoneet's Hi post was the most interesting entrance to the thread. I explained why last page as well.
Or did you want to know my thoughts about Zey? I don't recall getting anything meaningful from Zey's alignment, it seemed kinda like a meh trail of questioning that doesn't give much info with respect to Zey's alignment.
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TicTock, if you are indeed town, I'm going to need to ask you to re-evaluate some things. Take another look at ShoCkeyy. Take another look at Vivax. Take another look at me. I don't really know why you think I am mafia, do explain? No silly associations, facts please.
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Dammit Trfel, I really wanna see you flip red today but now I'm worried if you flip town I'm not sure who is most likely scum besides Sho.
WHICH just makes your vote on him the more aggravating to me
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On June 06 2020 14:53 Trfel wrote:
Have you re-evaluated Tictock lately? What do you think of the concerns Vivax and I have expressed about him?
I am honestly having great difficulties imagining world where both you and Vivax are town, and it's just not very likely he's scum with either of you. Seeing him paired to Shock is also difficult. I admit Zey/Tictock is possibility here, but honestly Zey just not getting Tictock and Tt wondering why Zey keeps going on about it seems genuine to me, because I've been down that road with Zey too XD
And for me Tictock's response to Vivax's accusations seems truthful and matches my read of him.
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On June 06 2020 15:15 Trfel wrote:
TicTock, if you are indeed town, I'm going to need to ask you to re-evaluate some things. Take another look at ShoCkeyy. Take another look at Vivax. Take another look at me. I don't really know why you think I am mafia, do explain? No silly associations, facts please.
I'm gunna be honest, right now if I accept a world where you are town vivax could still be mafia, but I would easily lynch a few ppl before him.
The Zey stuff is actually most interesting to me. Those posts I quoted gave me weird vibes.
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Also now is not a good time for me to really look into stuff.
You should be impressed I quoted posts AND spoilered that.
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Yeah but no Tictock's not maf here because if he were - and if I'm right not with Vivax or Trfel - lunching them would be auto win. No need to start reconsidering.
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EPT
