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On April 02 2020 09:26 Rels wrote:lol Trfel that makes me happy to see you so opportunistic  makes me feel better Opportunistic? I wouldn't call trying to figure out the alignment of the person leading the votes opportunistic. I'd call it being responsible and caring about the game.
I did indeed miss the top of the post you mentioned, my apologies. I saw the rest and assumed it was all like that.
Still though, what about those Palmar posts did you like so much? I have yet to understand this point from anyone, in particular I'd like to hear it from you.
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On April 02 2020 09:24 GlowingBear wrote:
Trfel, question: how's your read on Palmar now? I don't know. I've been busy, I haven't had a chance to re-evaluate yet. It would be mafia, except he was suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel early on and people have pointed to that as a reason to townread Palmar.
I need to look into that myself and see how much truth and weight it holds. I'm hoping to do so later tonight.On April 02 2020 09:32 Rels wrote:
If Palmar is also not trolling, his vote on me makes me uneasy. It doesn't match the "game is simple" mindset of earlier. Would explain the Vivax NK too.
But the fact that Trfel doesn't see that and continue his Palmar push, but instead takes the opportunity of jumping on me when people are voting me ... lol. 99% scum. I'm not scumreading you. But I might, if you keep attacking me with zero reason just because people are suspecting you.
Palmar's play does look kinda bad though. At least he voted for Rels early on, before it was known that GlowingBear and Chezinu would agree, but it does seem to come out of nowhere and had no explanation.
Gotta look into that later.
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On April 02 2020 10:31 LightningStrike wrote:
GB I did read it but I not exactly convinced about it per say but he reading the thread better than trfel is lol.... Care to explain? I've been present and reading this entire game. Or are you just here to take potshots for no reason?
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On April 02 2020 10:49 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 10:43 Trfel wrote:On April 02 2020 10:31 LightningStrike wrote:
GB I did read it but I not exactly convinced about it per say but he reading the thread better than trfel is lol.... Care to explain? I've been present and reading this entire game. Or are you just here to take potshots for no reason? The fact you missed Rels post about his read on Palmar showed you weren't really reading the game in my opinion. I wasn't taking potshots I was just stating things. You're free to think whatever you think, I just find it insulting to be accused of stuff like that. I've provided more quality analysis than most players in this game.
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On April 02 2020 11:36 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 10:43 Trfel wrote:On April 02 2020 09:24 GlowingBear wrote:
Trfel, question: how's your read on Palmar now? I don't know. I've been busy, I haven't had a chance to re-evaluate yet. It would be mafia, except he was suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel early on and people have pointed to that as a reason to townread Palmar. I need to look into that myself and see how much truth and weight it holds. I'm hoping to do so later tonight. On April 02 2020 09:32 Rels wrote:
If Palmar is also not trolling, his vote on me makes me uneasy. It doesn't match the "game is simple" mindset of earlier. Would explain the Vivax NK too.
But the fact that Trfel doesn't see that and continue his Palmar push, but instead takes the opportunity of jumping on me when people are voting me ... lol. 99% scum. I'm not scumreading you. But I might, if you keep attacking me with zero reason just because people are suspecting you. Palmar's play does look kinda bad though. At least he voted for Rels early on, before it was known that GlowingBear and Chezinu would agree, but it does seem to come out of nowhere and had no explanation. Gotta look into that later. Trfel I don't know, man. I read everything you post and it always comes awkward to me. I don't think you're not reading the game, and you are in fact putting a bit of effort. But the only thoughts that sounds original are the ones you've wrote about Palmar, one of your scum reads since day1. The rest, you just seem to react when it's convenient. If you're town, I'm sorry, but that's how it feels to me. Every post you say you're confused. Every town is, especially in a game like this one. I have at least one reason to suspect each player in the game. That's part of it. But I don't see you going after someone you think it's really scummy. The only one I'd expect you to go after is Palmar. But when chez posts something about Rels, you decide he is the best shot, when your main scumread is voting him. Also, a huge part of the case on Rels is flipped association with Sentinel. Which is the exact same reason we scum read you and you said it was stupid. I don't really think you believe in what you're saying every time you post Again, I'M NOT GOING AFTER RELS!!!
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On April 02 2020 13:11 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 02 2020 12:29 Trfel wrote:On April 02 2020 11:36 GlowingBear wrote:On April 02 2020 10:43 Trfel wrote:On April 02 2020 09:24 GlowingBear wrote:
Trfel, question: how's your read on Palmar now? I don't know. I've been busy, I haven't had a chance to re-evaluate yet. It would be mafia, except he was suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel early on and people have pointed to that as a reason to townread Palmar. I need to look into that myself and see how much truth and weight it holds. I'm hoping to do so later tonight. On April 02 2020 09:32 Rels wrote:
If Palmar is also not trolling, his vote on me makes me uneasy. It doesn't match the "game is simple" mindset of earlier. Would explain the Vivax NK too.
But the fact that Trfel doesn't see that and continue his Palmar push, but instead takes the opportunity of jumping on me when people are voting me ... lol. 99% scum. I'm not scumreading you. But I might, if you keep attacking me with zero reason just because people are suspecting you. Palmar's play does look kinda bad though. At least he voted for Rels early on, before it was known that GlowingBear and Chezinu would agree, but it does seem to come out of nowhere and had no explanation. Gotta look into that later. Trfel I don't know, man. I read everything you post and it always comes awkward to me. I don't think you're not reading the game, and you are in fact putting a bit of effort. But the only thoughts that sounds original are the ones you've wrote about Palmar, one of your scum reads since day1. The rest, you just seem to react when it's convenient. If you're town, I'm sorry, but that's how it feels to me. Every post you say you're confused. Every town is, especially in a game like this one. I have at least one reason to suspect each player in the game. That's part of it. But I don't see you going after someone you think it's really scummy. The only one I'd expect you to go after is Palmar. But when chez posts something about Rels, you decide he is the best shot, when your main scumread is voting him. Also, a huge part of the case on Rels is flipped association with Sentinel. Which is the exact same reason we scum read you and you said it was stupid. I don't really think you believe in what you're saying every time you post Again, I'M NOT GOING AFTER RELS!!! Trfel, I'll take a step back and assume you're 100% town, so we can have a conversation without me thinking you're trying to trick me. Now, let's also assume Mafia could've bussed Sentinel or not, in which case votecount isn't helpful. Trying to make associations with filters won't help either, since both you and Rels had suspicious posts regarding Sentinel, and you can't both be Mafia. We will have to rely solely on how people have been playing. Who is most likely scum, solely for how they have been playing? I don't necessarily believe that all associations are equal. I believe [UoN]Sentinel's actions at End of Day 2 to be WIFOM and impossible to get any useful information from. I didn't try to say that my own posts can't be used to show association to [UoN]Sentinel, I have simply tried to explain the intent behind my posts to clear up confusion and incorrect interpretations that were made that resulted in people thinking I looked suspicious due to my stance on [UoN]Sentinel. It's up to everyone's own view how they want to judge that, but I do think it's important that people correctly understand my thought process in my reads and posts.
In short, not all associations are equal. But I have also discussed those already, I'd be happy to discuss other things as well. I think the most suspicious thing in Rels' filter is how he switches from Palmar to [UoN]Sentinel on Day 2. Obviously this is extremely suspect given [UoN]Sentinel's alignment, but also makes no sense on its own (look at the way he does it, not just the fact that he did). To me it feels fake. He dropped his vote for (IMO) suspect reasons* and voted for his #2 suspect over his #1 suspect for no reason.
*I know he said he just voted for Palmar as a pressure vote. Palmar made a list post with little to no reasoning. Rels found it to be towny (how?) and also qualified this as Palmar playing the game (I strongly disagree, he showed barely any effort or thought).
My second reason to be suspicious of Rels is that Rels never made his own pushes or ideas, he just follows others. He just lets other people lead and jumps on the wagons and ideas that have already been shared. It feels like he's not really trying to solve the game and is just trying to look good and survive.
See the below spoiler for further analysis of this:
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +
I'm going to go and get a snack, and then I'll look at Palmar's filter. I don't like Palmar either, of course only one of them can be mafia. I need to figure out who it is, and I'm still not sure on LightningStrike or Chezinu. I can never read LightningStrike at all, he's had some weak games as scum and he's also had some absolutely killer games as scum. And Chezinu's play is such a departure from what I expect from him that I don't really know what to think. I need to take a closer look at both. Heck, I'm not even 100% positive you (GlowingBear) are town, I haven't had the time to do a thorough read of your filter yet.
If I had to rank everyone right now, from scummiest to towniest, it would be:
Palmar > Rels > LightningStrike > Chezinu > GlowingBear
But please keep in mind, I'm working right now to try and get a better idea of who is town and who is not. Expect my reads to change before I go to bed tonight.
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Frick, I forgot to actually put my analysis in that spoiler  Whoops on that one.
The one counterargument to Rels not bringing up his own thoughts is his early Day 1 vote onto Holyflare. However, he didn't press this for long. If you look at what Rels actually cared about and where he was actually invested, he hasn't done much that is original.
He started suspecting [UoN]Sentinel here, welll after Holyflare and others had started pushing him. Same with his suspicions on me, starting about here, well after GlowingBear and several others were suspecting me. His vote on KelsierSC came late, and well after most others suspected him due to Holyflare's case. And then Day 2, going onto [UoN]Sentinel only after it was almost certain that he would be the lynch (see previous posts for an explanation if you don't understand this). And he's done very little Day 3.
Look at the overarching theme in his filter and he's been quite the follower this game.
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Palmar
- Palmar has shown little/no interest in the game (not caring about lynches, reads, pushing his targets)
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +Palmar's activity has obviously been lacking in this game, but he has also shown a lack of investment in the game and lack of desire to push his targets. Day 1, Palmar made three posts saying that he wanted to lynch ShoCkeyy or asking people to lynch ShoCkeyy. Only two of them contained any explanation. The effort was very minimal. Palmar attributes this to his inactivity at the deadline: On March 29 2020 02:36 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2020 02:00 LightningStrike wrote:On March 29 2020 01:30 Palmar wrote:
I haven't reevaluated anything really, but I stand by my reads.
I moved away from KSC because he didn't really sound like mafia, it was just a policy lynch. So why didn't you try to yell at people to lynch shockeyy at EoD if you really thought shockeyy was scum? I told people to lynch him and gave reasons. I also wasn't here at the deadline or anywhere near it really. This is actually just a lie. Palmar posted 44 minutes before the deadline, not too far from the deadline at all. But even if he missed the last 44 minutes to the deadline, Palmar could have done much, much more to explain and push his reads and ideas. Day 2 and Day 3 get much worse. On Day 2, he doesn't say a single word about scum reads until it's obvious that [UoN]Sentinel will be lynched, and then he votes for him. Day 3, he decided suddenly that he wanted to kill Rels, without explanation. But hasn't returned to explain this or push his read at all. Read Palmar's filter yourself and then tell me that he's been pushing his reads and that he is invested in the game. I bet you can't.
- Palmar has provided almost no explanation of his reads, and little to no critical thinking
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +This goes without saying. Palmar has barely been present this game, and when he has been, most of his posts are one-liners, and most of his reads are entirely unexplained. I won't bother quoting these posts, instead I will quote the very best posts from Palmar. On March 27 2020 22:56 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 22:39 KelsierSC wrote:On March 27 2020 22:07 Palmar wrote:
I think we should lynch shockeyy over sentinel KSC?
How do you feel about this? I liked what I read from shockeyy , so not for it. Why would you want to? He got mad when I called him mafia and felt it was random, yet until that point in the game he had done nothing except vote for Blazinhand? Feels oversensitive. His first two posts in the game were both excuses even when bunch of people weren't even in the thread. He was telling us how he was totally not just afk, just doing something else. He made some weird association between me and holyflare. He has done very, very minimal amount of work for town. On March 30 2020 04:26 Palmar wrote:
It's so fucking tiring that people double guess everything and never just play this game in a simple way.
Mafia people play like mafia
Town people play like town
HF got into a huge dick measuring contest with GB, ergo they're both town.
Vivax made good reads and was just all around chill and cool guy, ergo he's town.
KSC came around and actually tried, ergo town.
LS is town because I said so
Rels is probably dumb enough to be town
Trfel could be mafia because he's completely uninteresting.
Sentinel is almost certainly mafia, his filter is shit
Shockeyy is probably the other one, he sounds like mafia.
Nobody is going to try to read Chez, but I'm kinda fine with him not dying at the moment.
Just kill the people that look and sound like mafia.
Stop fucking overthinking everything. And, well, that's it. His only posts this game with actual reads and explanations. And honestly, read the posts. Most of them aren't legitimate explanations, he's pushing things that make no sense. Look at the first post, on ShoCkeyy. This post may have been an okay post if he posted it when he was first suspecting ShoCkeyy. At that point, ShoCkeyy had done almost nothing. However, since that initial suspicion and before Palmar's post, ShoCkeyy provided some posts with more effort and more thinking. Palmar didn't consider these at all in his read, here are a few examples: On March 27 2020 02:59 ShoCkeyy wrote:Vote for me if you think I'm mafia, what are you doing sheeping HF? That's extremely easy and the lazy thing to do as mafia. On March 27 2020 04:13 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 03:56 GlowingBear wrote:
Here's where I'm at:
LS
LS is difficult to read but I have a feeling he is town, mostly because he seems interested in the game.
Palmar
He seems relaxed and having fun. He is also pushing who he thinks is mafia. Passable play.
KelsierSC
Had the same reaction I had on Holyflare's case. I can get behind his logic, even if he is overreacting.
Holyflare
Builds a whole case focusing on Kelsier but is voting Sentinel. His case seems constructed. I don't see him actively trying to solve the whole game, attacking relevant posts. Way too focused on an easy lynch. Not really how I expect him to play as town.
Trfel
Last post is veeeery very non-committal. Also, agrees with Holyflare on Sentinel but says he doesn't understand his case. Still not voting Sentinel.
Sentinel
Lynching himself makes no sense as town.
I'm not sure about Rels. Although I think he is not really taking strong stances, he is reacting accordingly to what is being posted on the thread. I wouldn't lynch him day1.
Chezinu is unreadable.
Vivax is tunneled on Sentinel on weak grounds. The only reason this is not a scum lean is because Vivax tends be like this as town too. @Vivax, what do you think of the other players?
I find Shockey unreadable at this point. Last time I've played with him, he seemed mafia as hell. Turns out he was town.
Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 06:39 ShoCkeyy wrote:
No, why start two wagons and then push/vote the one that seems most likely to get a wagon going? Like personally I understand the situation Sent is in, GB you've always thought my play style is anti town, but is it? I think when a townie panics like the one Sent is in, they tend to lean anti town.
I still prefer HF being scum here than Sent. Palmar and Trfel seem to agree with everything HF has to say which is odd from both of them. Yea I mentioned to Chen as well that I'm not even going to try to figure you out day one... every time that happens, we both go at each other for no reason and we both end up town anyways. Do I find HF to be mafia? Sure. It does seem like it with that double play. But I don't agree on Palmar, if HF isn't mafia then Palmar is vice versa, or theyre both a team together. Sentinel play can be construed as mafia, or a desperate townie trying to get HF off their back. We all know HF is a strong player in either position, but having played with HF before as mafia, I feel like he's playing as mafia this time around. the point of mafia team is to confuse the town. It's already starting to happen with his play. Palmar himself had contributed far less to town than ShoCkeyy had at the time Palmar made this post. The read shows a lack of critical thinking and analysis. And remember, we are looking at the best of Palmar here. Looking at his list post... Ignore the townreads on flipped or modkilled players. He townread GlowingBear for his fight with Holyflare, fine whatever. He townread Rels because he is dumb? All he said is one person has a bad filter, the other sounds like mafia. That is it. Palmar is a player well capable of critical thought and accurate, strong reads. He has not demonstrated that at all in this game.
- Evolution of Reads (because I believe an analysis of how someone's reads evolve is generally worth looking at)
+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote:
also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
Just lynch those 4 and the game is over. (while voting for KelsierSC) On March 26 2020 22:58 Palmar wrote:
I have upgraded shockeyy to definitely mafia. On March 27 2020 06:21 Palmar wrote:
GB is100% town
Bad, but town On March 29 2020 20:51 Palmar wrote:
Seems like a good day to kill sentinel On March 29 2020 20:54 Palmar wrote:
I’ll kill shockeyy as well On March 30 2020 18:29 Palmar wrote:
Feels like sentinel has done less than shockeyy and is less invested.
Still think shockeyy is mafia for his reactions and posts on day 1, just think Sentinel is even more likely to flip scum.
Trfel is officially dead to me now btw, so I'm going to pretend he doesn't exist. On March 30 2020 04:26 Palmar wrote:
It's so fucking tiring that people double guess everything and never just play this game in a simple way.
Mafia people play like mafia
Town people play like town
HF got into a huge dick measuring contest with GB, ergo they're both town.
Vivax made good reads and was just all around chill and cool guy, ergo he's town.
KSC came around and actually tried, ergo town.
LS is town because I said so
Rels is probably dumb enough to be town
Trfel could be mafia because he's completely uninteresting.
Sentinel is almost certainly mafia, his filter is shit
Shockeyy is probably the other one, he sounds like mafia.
Nobody is going to try to read Chez, but I'm kinda fine with him not dying at the moment.
Just kill the people that look and sound like mafia.
Stop fucking overthinking everything. (note: the above post should be one post higher but I'm too lazy to change it) On April 01 2020 09:17 Palmar wrote:
I think today is a good day to kill Rels Ignoring the quality of the reads themselves, as we've already discussed this, there are still two inconsistencies. First, Palmar votes for KelsierSC instead of his main, "definitely mafia" scumread, ShoCkeyy, on Day 1. Note that he only corrected this after he was called out on it. Furthermore, his suspicion of Rels came absolutely out of nowhere, and is STILL completely unexplained. For the lack of reads Palmar has posted, he still has jumps in his main reads/votes that make no sense at all.
- Palmar didn't push [UoN]Sentinel at all until Day 2, when there was little that could be done to prevent his death
+ Show Spoiler [Explanation] +On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote:
also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
Just lynch those 4 and the game is over. On March 26 2020 22:56 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 21:49 Vivax wrote:
Let's keep it simple? Sent's first post was a joke about the opening post, possibly a result of him staring at it not knowing what to write. Then he became uncooperative and generally didn't look like he was having fun, but rather resorting to mimicking a zero-fucks attitude to provoke too-scummy-to-be-scum theories.
I like the wagon. We don't have to bite our teeth out to convince Kelsier.
##Vote: Sent This is a fine vote as well. Honestly I'd kill any of the 4 I mentioned. Classic way mafia treat fellow mafia. "I'm suspicious of this person, I'd kill them" while voting for someone else. It gives them a super easy way to bus them if needed, while not actually voting for them or pushing them. See here and here. Palmar is still suspicious of [UoN]Sentinel, but is protecting him by wanting to lynch ShoCkeyy first. Given that Palmar didn't even consolidate at the deadline, this guarantees that he didn't have to vote for [UoN]Sentinel at all. Also, see my post here for why anyone (Palmar included) knew that [UoN]Sentinel was highly likely to die by the time that he voted for him on Day 2. No other wagon had any traction/momentum, and they all lacked the support to get the votes needed via simple math. Furthermore, knowing that [UoN]Sentinel wasn't going to make a significant play to save himself, this was a sensible time to for mafia to bus. Palmar's stance and reads towards [UoN]Sentinel is not at all a reason to read him as town. In fact, it's a bit suspect.
In conclusion, I think Palmar is the most likely to be mafia. His posts on [UoN]Sentinel are not valid reason to townread him. Palmar's play this game overall has been extremely lacking: he's barely been present, he hasn't been invested, and he's produced almost no read explanations or critical thoughts. The second point is the strongest point.
I highly suggest everyone reconsider their read on Palmar.
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Took a quick look at LightningStrike's filter. I never know how to read him but since he's in the game I have to try...
I don't like how LightningStrike says he was suspicious of Holyflare right after Holyflare posted his case on KelsierSC but then only said anything and voted for Holyflare after GlowingBear did. It feels like he was too scared to say anything on his own. I could see this coming from town, Holyflare can be quite intimidating, but I still find it suspect.On March 27 2020 09:59 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2020 09:54 Trfel wrote:PalmarWhile I like where Palmar has placed his vote (KelsierSC), I don't like the rest of his play at all. And that's the main thing that has me concerned currently. Palmar typically has strong Day 1 play. He's very good at finding mafia on Day 1, and I believe he has one of the best Day 1 push mafia percentages on the site. However, that isn't seen in this game at all. Palmar has been almost entirely absent, despite having no excuse and nothing else to do (yay coronavirus). And it's not even a weekend. Furthermore, in the little time Palmar has been here, his presence has been extremely lacking. He sheeped Holyflare to vote onto KelsierSC (by itself not a bad choice), however the rest of his posts lack reasoning entirely: On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote:
also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
Just lynch those 4 and the game is over. On March 26 2020 22:56 Palmar wrote:On March 26 2020 21:49 Vivax wrote:
Let's keep it simple? Sent's first post was a joke about the opening post, possibly a result of him staring at it not knowing what to write. Then he became uncooperative and generally didn't look like he was having fun, but rather resorting to mimicking a zero-fucks attitude to provoke too-scummy-to-be-scum theories.
I like the wagon. We don't have to bite our teeth out to convince Kelsier.
##Vote: Sent This is a fine vote as well. Honestly I'd kill any of the 4 I mentioned. On March 26 2020 22:58 Palmar wrote:
I have upgraded shockeyy to definitely mafia. But the incriminating part here is that Palmar has no direction. He doesn't care who gets lynched, he's not pushing his targets, he's content to do nothing. I could potentially understand if he (somehow) had four targets he felt were about equally scummy, but he even says he rates ShoCkeyy as definitely mafia (in contrast to the rest of his lynch pool). Palmar doesn't care about who gets lynched. From town perspective this makes no sense. To me it feels like he's just interested in surviving and is disinterested otherwise, or that KelsierSC is town and Palmar is trying to set up extra mislynches. But I don't know what to think, because I don't like KelsierSC either. I don't like unflipped association reads but while I do think they could be mafia together, it's probably less likely. So I'm a bit confused right now. Thoughts? I wasn't digging Palmar's play for the same reason myself but idk if he is town or scum though because of it. Similar thing here. Slightly suspicious of someone but not sure if they are town or mafia. It's about as noncommittal as you can be.
On March 28 2020 02:20 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2020 02:18 Rels wrote:On March 28 2020 02:15 GlowingBear wrote:On March 28 2020 02:14 LightningStrike wrote:On March 28 2020 02:11 Rels wrote:On March 28 2020 02:05 LightningStrike wrote:On March 28 2020 02:05 GlowingBear wrote:On March 28 2020 02:03 LightningStrike wrote:
As for HF being scum: DMA said he was town earlier. DMA? Dick Move Analysis like he would be to much of a dick to not be town for that action. do you think HF can't be a jerk as scum? I doubt that he can do this post as scum: On March 27 2020 08:46 Holyflare wrote:On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:On March 26 2020 14:01 Holyflare wrote:On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia. For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read On March 26 2020 13:36 Rels wrote:
and please explain why KSC should be conf scum in Sent POV I've evolved as a player. I see far beyond what normal players see and I can extrapolate things from a meta-analysis of this game. Mafia have three main objectives: - Blend
- Sew discontent
- Survive
The game relies on mafia making mistakes and outing themselves through having perfect knowledge and being unable to think and type with the naivety that a townie has. This leads to the following main problems:
1.They know that fundamentally all cases against townies are bad.
2.They know that all cases against mafia are good (or poorly explained but correct) but they need to discredit them or downplay them.
3.They have to jump on cases on townies that they know are fundamentally bad.Kelsier is textbook mafia in this situation, regardless of Sentinel's townieness or mafia-ness. Kelsier's last posts are the hallmark of every mafia player with perfect information. It hits point 2 and 3 to a tee. On March 26 2020 08:15 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 08:13 LightningStrike wrote:On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:
[quote]
The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak.
We can agree to disagree on the last part only. Is there anything else you want to talk about? I think the push on sentinel blows a fat cock but I want to see who else jumps on it and pretends its a good case. On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote:
Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted.
LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
no one else has been impressive, would lynch chez because he gives me a headache.
the push on sentinel is bleh however he hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway , but I don't like listening to HF about anything. I operate in a no bully zone.
There is a fundamental disconnect between the information presented to Kelsier in the thread and his logical assumptions and progressions. In Kelsier's opinion, the case on Sentinel is bad but the case is majoritively based on the assumption that while being present in the thread and having the ability to post for the first 6 hours he has contributed nothing and his entries were unfunny. Kelsier's current mindset if town: I have seen a case based on Sentinel doing nothing and I think it is terrible. Then he follows up with a goodnight post (bolded for brevity) that he outlines "Sentinel hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway". Kelsier's current mindset if town: ?????? Kelsier's mindset as mafia: The case on Sentinel is the only one in the thread so far, I need to find a reason to hop on it and he's doing nothing so he's easy to get rid of and put a vote on.
These points are irrespective of the rest of his filter. Remember the mafia tenets I mentioned earlier? Mafia has perfect information, they know that all cases on townies are bad and have to "reason" out their reads. His filter is full of discrediting people's opinions for almost no reasons. Mafia has perfect information and it's a beginner mafia mistake to town read people freely for bad reasons and also out yourself by arguing against OK-ish points (remember mafia tenet number 1?). Again, Kelsier's filter is littered with these. On March 26 2020 04:25 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 04:15 LightningStrike wrote:On March 26 2020 04:04 Vivax wrote:
[quote]
This is slightly scummy because after the game started he decided to read the setup before posting. Made me laugh but I do agree with your logic at least. you agree it's scummy to check the day post when a game starts? lul x2 Discredits a read for no reason. Makes no conclusions. On March 26 2020 06:59 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote:
Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no? last thing I remember is he is AFK as fuck as mafia, so not a bad read. Jumps on giving a free town read to Vivax even though this is not his meta. On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote:On March 26 2020 07:09 KelsierSC wrote:
[quote]
Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town?
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least. Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell. Bad reads. Discredits read on GB. This is all discrediting reads. On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 07:52 LightningStrike wrote:On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:
[quote]
Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell.
Bad reads. Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more. The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak. Says absolutely nothing about Rels again. Says he'd give him credit but also contradicts the credit right at the end of the point. The post amounts to nothing.
To surmise, Kelsier is following all tenets of playing as mafia. He is playing destructively, rather than constructively with his perfect information (he discredits town reads people are giving frequently). He discredits the Sentinel push while meekly saying he'd join it right after. Kelsier has perfect information and is mafia. Funny, this case is basically about Kelsier but you're voting Sentinel. This is so bad. On March 26 2020 19:08 KelsierSC wrote:
First night a few hours after the game begins I am trying to get a feel for the game . Few interactions and give my opinion on what's happened so far.
I call a bad case on sentinel a bad case and then give my thoughts before I have to head out. Nothing special or particularly concrete. Some general d1 thoughts.
Come back to some giant case against me that quotes almost my entire filter. Im not going to spend D1 defending myself from obnoxious bullshit ty. On March 26 2020 19:37 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 19:33 Holyflare wrote:On March 26 2020 19:08 KelsierSC wrote:
First night a few hours after the game begins I am trying to get a feel for the game . Few interactions and give my opinion on what's happened so far.
I call a bad case on sentinel a bad case and then give my thoughts before I have to head out. Nothing special or particularly concrete. Some general d1 thoughts.
Come back to some giant case against me that quotes almost my entire filter. Im not going to spend D1 defending myself from obnoxious bullshit ty. So you're establishing that you attack me personally and blame the death of the forum on me/my playstyle because I play the game of mafia? You arent playing mafia you are a bully hiding behind your screen. Got no time for you On March 26 2020 22:56 LightningStrike wrote:
Just woke up and saw HF also casing KSC although it not the worst case in the world but I aint biting it and KSC's reaction though seems very over the top? Dunno how to feel about that. Palmar's entrance is meh. I hope someone can actually help me read HF this game.... On March 27 2020 03:25 ShoCkeyy wrote:On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:
And this is basically what's interesting right now.
Holyflare is mafia, he's pushing Kelsier while voting Sentinel. It doesn't make sense. I don't believe he is trying to solve the game, but he's just trying to fit people's post in a narrative to push his mafia agenda.
##Vote: Holyflare I also found this interesting as well. I don't get the push on either or, which is why I didn't even buy into it, yet Palmar followed along anyways. On March 27 2020 03:52 LightningStrike wrote:On March 27 2020 03:20 GlowingBear wrote:On March 26 2020 10:12 LightningStrike wrote:On March 26 2020 08:56 GlowingBear wrote:
LS, I was pushing Rels just to get some traction in the thread.
HF, is Vivax town? And what you got out of that push onto Rels? Nothing, I was just getting traction. On March 26 2020 10:17 Chezinu wrote:On March 26 2020 09:49 GlowingBear wrote:
zZz Hello! Wakey wakey little teddy bear! oh how memorizing you are! Please speak to me! Chez I'll speak! Are you mafia? On March 26 2020 11:31 Trfel wrote:On March 26 2020 10:58 Rels wrote:On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote:
Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no? why? Vivax typically has trouble Day 1 as mafia, here he seems present and quite comfortable. This is in the past, Trfel. Last game I've played with him he was very capable as mafia. On March 26 2020 14:01 Holyflare wrote:On March 26 2020 12:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On March 26 2020 12:49 Holyflare wrote:
If you are town, Sentinel, you should be voting for Kelsier because he would be confirmed mafia. For saying the wagon on me is bleh? I think it's too early in the game for that to be a scum read On March 26 2020 13:36 Rels wrote:
and please explain why KSC should be conf scum in Sent POV I've evolved as a player. I see far beyond what normal players see and I can extrapolate things from a meta-analysis of this game. Mafia have three main objectives: - Blend
- Sew discontent
- Survive
The game relies on mafia making mistakes and outing themselves through having perfect knowledge and being unable to think and type with the naivety that a townie has. This leads to the following main problems:
1.They know that fundamentally all cases against townies are bad.
2.They know that all cases against mafia are good (or poorly explained but correct) but they need to discredit them or downplay them.
3.They have to jump on cases on townies that they know are fundamentally bad.Kelsier is textbook mafia in this situation, regardless of Sentinel's townieness or mafia-ness. Kelsier's last posts are the hallmark of every mafia player with perfect information. It hits point 2 and 3 to a tee. On March 26 2020 08:15 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 08:13 LightningStrike wrote:
[quote]
We can agree to disagree on the last part only. Is there anything else you want to talk about? I think the push on sentinel blows a fat cock but I want to see who else jumps on it and pretends its a good case. On March 26 2020 08:26 KelsierSC wrote:
Apparently I have to go to work tomorrow ( I don't as i'm not a key worker but my boss is a fuckhead )
going to sleep now but I will probably be posting from my office with the door closed. I think LS and vivax are pretty town. vivax because he has posted.
LS because the interaction felt ok and if I recall he is a fan of outrageous reads.
no one else has been impressive, would lynch chez because he gives me a headache.
the push on sentinel is bleh however he hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway , but I don't like listening to HF about anything. I operate in a no bully zone.
There is a fundamental disconnect between the information presented to Kelsier in the thread and his logical assumptions and progressions. In Kelsier's opinion, the case on Sentinel is bad but the case is majoritively based on the assumption that while being present in the thread and having the ability to post for the first 6 hours he has contributed nothing and his entries were unfunny. Kelsier's current mindset if town: I have seen a case based on Sentinel doing nothing and I think it is terrible. Then he follows up with a goodnight post (bolded for brevity) that he outlines "Sentinel hasn't done shit so I would lynch him anyway". Kelsier's current mindset if town: ?????? Kelsier's mindset as mafia: The case on Sentinel is the only one in the thread so far, I need to find a reason to hop on it and he's doing nothing so he's easy to get rid of and put a vote on.
These points are irrespective of the rest of his filter. Remember the mafia tenets I mentioned earlier? Mafia has perfect information, they know that all cases on townies are bad and have to "reason" out their reads. His filter is full of discrediting people's opinions for almost no reasons. Mafia has perfect information and it's a beginner mafia mistake to town read people freely for bad reasons and also out yourself by arguing against OK-ish points (remember mafia tenet number 1?). Again, Kelsier's filter is littered with these. On March 26 2020 04:25 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 04:15 LightningStrike wrote:
[quote]
Made me laugh but I do agree with your logic at least. you agree it's scummy to check the day post when a game starts? lul x2 Discredits a read for no reason. Makes no conclusions. On March 26 2020 06:59 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote:
Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no? last thing I remember is he is AFK as fuck as mafia, so not a bad read. Jumps on giving a free town read to Vivax even though this is not his meta. On March 26 2020 07:48 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote:
[quote]
GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least. Feels like it is way to early to make reads like that, GB posted some random stuff and GIFS in the first page, it's not exactly a hard mimic. There is no way the Rels push was anything real at all, you should know that tbh so his reponse is pretty null aswell. Bad reads. Discredits read on GB. This is all discrediting reads. On March 26 2020 08:10 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 07:52 LightningStrike wrote:
[quote]
Good point but GB is usually more jokey as town than scum especially doesn't do these type of pushes this early as scum like in Battle of the Drams. Rels I can see your argument but I been liking his responses so far just want to see him push the game more. The only thing i'd give Rels credit for is he seemed to make an effort to understand all the nonsense chez posted and the resulting discussion. I just ignored all of that tbh. Rest of his play has been weak. Says absolutely nothing about Rels again. Says he'd give him credit but also contradicts the credit right at the end of the point. The post amounts to nothing.
To surmise, Kelsier is following all tenets of playing as mafia. He is playing destructively, rather than constructively with his perfect information (he discredits town reads people are giving frequently). He discredits the Sentinel push while meekly saying he'd join it right after. Kelsier has perfect information and is mafia. Funny, this case is basically about Kelsier but you're voting Sentinel. This is so bad. On March 26 2020 15:10 Trfel wrote:
Holyflare's points on KelsierSC make sense to me. I also don't understand why KelsierSC thinks LightningStrike is town after repeatedly saying all of his reads are bad. Feels really arbitrary.
However I also don't understand why Holyflare calls out [UoN]Sentinel specifically for not scumreading KelsierSC when he later says that [UoN]Sentinel's alignment doesn't affect his case on KelsierSC? I'm very confused by this. Worst post on thread yet. Are these points alignment indicative? What do you believe these guys are? Town? Mafia? On March 26 2020 18:32 Palmar wrote:
also the pool of mafia is like trfel, shockeyy, ksc and sentinel.
Just lynch those 4 and the game is over. Care to explain? At least explain why you're leaving Chez out. --- And this is basically what's interesting right now. Holyflare is mafia, he's pushing Kelsier while voting Sentinel. It doesn't make sense. I don't believe he is trying to solve the game, but he's just trying to fit people's post in a narrative to push his mafia agenda. ##Vote: Holyflare So I wasn't the only one who actually thought this as well even I didn't say it in the thread but I been thinking that for sure. I will vote HF with you. ##Vote: Holyflare On March 26 2020 12:27 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On March 26 2020 12:04 Holyflare wrote:On March 26 2020 11:10 Rels wrote:On March 26 2020 10:23 Holyflare wrote:On March 26 2020 08:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
[quote]
"I'm voting for you because you did what I did"
That's not how you start a wagon silly You did exactly what I did directly after me. It wasn't original or funny, it was just a mimic of someone who is town in an attempt to blend in. Everything you have done is neither constructive nor helpful. Even this quoted post doesn't construct a read, nor does it evaluate anything else in the thread or about my alignment or anyone elses. You are mafia, simple as that. is this what you really feel about sent, or is it strongly worded to make the game move? Who am I voting for? It's probably the latter, Rels ##vote [UoN]Sentinel These posts, afking and work commitments are why this forum is dead and others thrive. You post a long case and people agree with it (which is fine because they actually elaborated on reasons why) but other people disagree with it and say absolutely nothing relevant to any of the points within it. There is no debate about what points are constructed or what points make someone mafia, there is no push for me because someone thinks this is a narrative (instead, there is a push for me because people can't read the voting thread). This forum is plagued by people talking AT each other saying meagre sentences like "I think he is town" or "I think he is mafia" and no actual discourse about any points anyone raises. This was the post that alerted my DMA stuff. He can 100% do this as Mafia. Anyone can do this as Mafia. Whining is very easy to do. I agree. LS I think that's a bad argument Guess that makes me bad then This too. LightningStrike was townreading Holyflare for DMA, two people told him it was bad, and suddenly he was even potentially looking for a mass vote switch to Holyflare at the deadline:On March 28 2020 02:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Chez you need to note waste your vote and same with you Palmar...... We might have shannies on HF if we can just get up to 4 votes on HF. I don't know what I think about this. It feels so bleh and opportunistic, but at the same time, knowing all of the options were town, I see no mafia motivation in it. Mafia!LightningStrike should be content to leave the lynch wherever it goes and not care if people waste their vote. The care at the end of Day 1, including switching votes his little mafia motivation (the only motivation I can see is that he was expecting the once-again-playing KelsierSC to redeem himself and me to continue to be suspected, he would want to keep me alive to save me as a mislynch for the future).
Same thing with suddenly suspecting Vivax Night 1. Feels like he's just going along with everyone else, even though Vivax was one of his top townreads earlier. What changed?
Anyway, some questions for LightningStrike:
On March 26 2020 05:48 LightningStrike wrote:Ok done with lecture I liking Rels so far and idk if GB is serious about his push on Rels at all. Vivax is town as well we had the same thought about the Chez stuff at the start of it. Wish HF and Sent would post more and have everyone else enter LightningStrike, why does this make Vivax town? All he said was that Chezinu didn't soft claim mafia. Literally anyone other than GlowingBear would have told you that. Maybe GlowingBear was joking too.
On March 26 2020 07:37 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 07:09 KelsierSC wrote:On March 26 2020 06:27 LightningStrike wrote:On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote:
Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no? I agree with the read is there anything else you want to talk about? Guess you could fill me in on why GB is town and why Rels is town? GB is town because of his attitude which I don't think he can fake as mafia. Rels is town because he responded well to GB's push I thought at least. What parts of GlowingBear's attitude did you think make him town here?
Why did you start thinking Vivax was mafia Night 1? What changed?
LightningStrike, what do you think currently of Rels and Palmar?
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And now I'm going to bed, since it's well past my bedtime. I'll re-evaluate LightningStrike once he answers my questions but I'm feeling okayish about him I think. Still need to reread Chezinu and GlowingBear.
I'll try to be here for the deadline tomorrow but no guarantees, I'm awful at waking up in the morning
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Again, [UoN]Sentinel knew he was going to die when he was making those last few posts. So his reads are designed to confuse town after he died, they are WIFOM. You can't get anything from them because he's just trying to trick you. If [UoN]Sentinel pushed Palmar sooner I might understand what you are saying but that didn't happen.
Did you see my post towards the bottom of last page on why Rels would vote for [UoN]Sentinel there as mafia?
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EBWOP It's at the top of the last page, not the bottom.
Going back to bed.
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On April 02 2020 22:54 GlowingBear wrote:
Trfel, I've read all you've posted except for LS. If LS is mafia, he won the game. He's based town for me and I'm sure he will be the night kill tonight.
About Rels: Half of your case is assuming mafia would bus and his vote on Sentinel proves he is mafia. The second half is that Rels isn't really inspiring in this game and is parroting people, not really bringing lots of original thoughts. This I agree and was the reason I was wary of him.
About Palmar: Most of your points can be applied to anyone. 4th point is associative and it could be applied to me, for instance, that decided to switch from my top scumread to a townread (100% bad play). Not explaining too much of his reads isn't a mafia trait, he just said what he thinks and I find that pretty genuine. I also prefer not to say much, one liners are enough. He keeps saying "keep the game simple" and he is doing that.
The only point I think you can be right is being uninterested. That could come from both alignments anyway.
Now, I'm not saying Palmar couldn't be mafia. I'm saying these points aren't really convincing me. You know what does make me think Palmar could be mafia? Sentinel trying to have me lynched instead of Palmar.
I would be lynching you today, although I like that you're trying and if you are town, it wouldn't be the first time I was dumb enough to not see it. But Chez made me want to believe Rels is mafia and I think it's fun. If the flips red I'll always follow the House of Brown. Rels' vote on [UoN]Sentinel doesn't prove he is mafia, I literally said it's a wash. AKA I can't discern anything from it.
Why would town ever not explain their reads? Especially to the degree that Palmar has been? I don't understand.
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On April 03 2020 00:52 Palmar wrote:
Actually fuck it, I'm changing my mind.
Trfel has a 4 page filter
Rels has a 9 page filter
I'm voting Trfel
This is a good case.
Rels is always going to post more than me, he's more of a discussion poster, I'm more of a case-based poster. Especially lately I've been working on having lower post counts and still providing quality content. I've provided more quality content than Rels has this game.
Bad metric.
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On April 03 2020 00:58 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2020 06:25 Trfel wrote:
Hi all, thanks for being willing to help me out of my boredom and nothingness and play some mafia!
I'm pretty happy with Vivax as town, no? This post is one of the reasons why Trfel was in my initial 4 "kill these and win" list. If he townreads Vivax, just say it, why format the read in a form of question? Is he apologetic about having a read? Because it's early in the game and I want to hear what other people think?
Getting sick of people misconstruing everything I say. Even from days ago.
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On April 03 2020 01:20 GlowingBear wrote:
In other words, it's not about putting effort in being wrong, it's putting effort in sterile things. He doesn't think Rels is Mafia? Why is he putting effort in reinforcing the suspicions? I'm not putting in effort to make other people suspect Rels, I'm trying to figure out Rels' alignment. I posted a large case on Palmar with quality content to persuade people to lynch Palmar instead of Rels. PLEASE stop with this nonsense.
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On April 03 2020 01:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Tbh I'll put my vote on Trfel I think he'll flip scum more often than Rels and Palmar atm especially given Rels doing serious work right no'w. Sure, if you just literally ignore all of the posts I've been making? Why is a stupidly easy meta check the only "serious work," ignoring all of my cases and analyses?
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On April 03 2020 02:12 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2020 02:05 Trfel wrote:On April 02 2020 22:54 GlowingBear wrote:
Trfel, I've read all you've posted except for LS. If LS is mafia, he won the game. He's based town for me and I'm sure he will be the night kill tonight.
About Rels: Half of your case is assuming mafia would bus and his vote on Sentinel proves he is mafia. The second half is that Rels isn't really inspiring in this game and is parroting people, not really bringing lots of original thoughts. This I agree and was the reason I was wary of him.
About Palmar: Most of your points can be applied to anyone. 4th point is associative and it could be applied to me, for instance, that decided to switch from my top scumread to a townread (100% bad play). Not explaining too much of his reads isn't a mafia trait, he just said what he thinks and I find that pretty genuine. I also prefer not to say much, one liners are enough. He keeps saying "keep the game simple" and he is doing that.
The only point I think you can be right is being uninterested. That could come from both alignments anyway.
Now, I'm not saying Palmar couldn't be mafia. I'm saying these points aren't really convincing me. You know what does make me think Palmar could be mafia? Sentinel trying to have me lynched instead of Palmar.
I would be lynching you today, although I like that you're trying and if you are town, it wouldn't be the first time I was dumb enough to not see it. But Chez made me want to believe Rels is mafia and I think it's fun. If the flips red I'll always follow the House of Brown. Rels' vote on [UoN]Sentinel doesn't prove he is mafia, I literally said it's a wash. AKA I can't discern anything from it. Why would town ever not explain their reads? Especially to the degree that Palmar has been? I don't understand. Show nested quote +
In short, not all associations are equal. But I have also discussed those already, I'd be happy to discuss other things as well. I think the most suspicious thing in Rels' filter is how he switches from Palmar to [UoN]Sentinel on Day 2. Obviously this is extremely suspect given [UoN]Sentinel's alignment, but also makes no sense on its own (look at the way he does it, not just the fact that he did). To me it feels fake. He dropped his vote for (IMO) suspect reasons* and voted for his #2 suspect over his #1 suspect for no reason.
Isn't this associative read, Trfel? I think Palmar is explaining, but in one liners. It's not the fact that he did it, that makes sense as mafia but could come from town. It's the way that he does it that makes no sense, regardless of [UoN]Sentinel's alignment. That is the suspicious part.
Does that make sense? I can try to word it differently if not.
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On April 03 2020 02:17 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2020 02:14 Trfel wrote:On April 03 2020 01:26 LightningStrike wrote:
Tbh I'll put my vote on Trfel I think he'll flip scum more often than Rels and Palmar atm especially given Rels doing serious work right no'w. Sure, if you just literally ignore all of the posts I've been making? Why is a stupidly easy meta check the only "serious work," ignoring all of my cases and analyses? You were afk at the time???? Yes, I was asleep, because I stayed up late to do extra analysis while Rels was sleeping.
This literally makes no sense. Kinda infuriating.
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On April 03 2020 02:19 GlowingBear wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2020 02:12 Trfel wrote:On April 03 2020 01:20 GlowingBear wrote:
In other words, it's not about putting effort in being wrong, it's putting effort in sterile things. He doesn't think Rels is Mafia? Why is he putting effort in reinforcing the suspicions? I'm not putting in effort to make other people suspect Rels, I'm trying to figure out Rels' alignment. I posted a large case on Palmar with quality content to persuade people to lynch Palmar instead of Rels. PLEASE stop with this nonsense. I'm sorry if you're town, Trfel, I just really can't see it. I understand what you're saying here, but I don't believe it. If I am wrong, at least I'll understand it's a meta thing. Please don't be frustrated No it is frustrating, because I've lost two games in a row by being lynched. I'm sick of this. My play has been solid, I'm confident Palmar is mafia, and everyone's lynching me instead while Palmar and his one-liners get away free.
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EPT
