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On March 06 2019 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote:
Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1 I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did.
Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered.
Anyway, what was the point of convincing Palmar to do something other than what Palmar was gonna do. I wasn't sold on Sentinel being town, and didn't really mind Palmar wanting to axe him, so didn't feel at all responsible to try to stop him. I would have preferred he axed someone I had a solid scumread on, but given a choice between axing Palmar and axing almost anyone else in the game, I was going with "almost anyone else". And yes, I was afk for like 3 hours and came back 1 hour before the deadline. There wasn't a lot of time to get a new wagon going. Especially not by me, with my 0 clout at the time. I could probably have argued myself out of a lynch, but I sure as hell didn't have the presence to argue HF, Palmar, Lamp or even BH *into* doing anything.
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On March 06 2019 23:16 Grackaroni wrote:
You're directing this at the wrong person. HF actually addressed the posts that Palmar made on Monday. Rayn didn't and he voted HF for mayor so that HF would kill Palmar without commenting on what Palmar wrote about Sentinel/Conversion/Mocsta.
I have a lot more belief that HF had conviction in his Palmar read than I do that Rayn did.
On March 06 2019 23:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Sentinel
BH
Rayn
3 players very very likely to be scum.
Have you forgotten about the case i made on Palmar which Palmar said was correct?
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On March 06 2019 23:29 rsoultin wrote:
Oh, I'd totally kill them lol >< HF wasn't wrong about that
And just to further the WIFOM, whoever I would kill probably wouldn't matter in a large scum team cause I rarely force through my NKs unless everyone's goooone. Anyone who has scummed with me can verify that ^^
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On March 06 2019 23:29 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote:
Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1 I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did. Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered.
Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta?
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On March 06 2019 23:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:16 Grackaroni wrote:
You're directing this at the wrong person. HF actually addressed the posts that Palmar made on Monday. Rayn didn't and he voted HF for mayor so that HF would kill Palmar without commenting on what Palmar wrote about Sentinel/Conversion/Mocsta.
I have a lot more belief that HF had conviction in his Palmar read than I do that Rayn did. Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Sentinel
BH
Rayn
3 players very very likely to be scum. Have you forgotten about the case i made on Palmar which Palmar said was correct?
Palmar said that the reason you two butted heads was his fault. You didn't write anything about Palmar being scum that should have been considered more important than Palmar's scumhunting posts on Monday.
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On March 06 2019 23:33 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:16 Grackaroni wrote:
You're directing this at the wrong person. HF actually addressed the posts that Palmar made on Monday. Rayn didn't and he voted HF for mayor so that HF would kill Palmar without commenting on what Palmar wrote about Sentinel/Conversion/Mocsta.
I have a lot more belief that HF had conviction in his Palmar read than I do that Rayn did. On March 06 2019 23:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Sentinel
BH
Rayn
3 players very very likely to be scum. Have you forgotten about the case i made on Palmar which Palmar said was correct? Palmar said that the reason you two butted heads was his fault. You didn't write anything about Palmar being scum that should have been considered more important than Palmar's scumhunting posts on Monday.
When Palmar was scumhunting on monday (and my tuesday) i was at work.
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On March 06 2019 23:11 rsoultin wrote:
@Tube
My initial problem with you was how much time you seemed to be spending on your townreads vs. scumreads with pokes that didn't seem to lead anywhere being the rest of your filter. But on a reread it looks better largely cause I can see the read progression on some of the players.
Can you please explain your read on Palmar D1 and what made you okay with a Conversion lynch?
I didn’t have a Palmar read. He wasn’t doing anything that I could see a mafia not do. Like what you said about HF when he didn’t further antagonize someone and you towned him for it, when if he were mafia he would probably let it go further. It’s a small thing and a subjective thing. These little things when they repeat often enough become a townread. Palmar just wasn’t alive long enough for that to happen for me. I definitely preferred him living and I liked what I saw, but there wasn’t a single thing I saw that mafiaPalmar couldn’t/wouldn’t do. I mean mafiaPalmar generically. I use this metric on most people.
I was essentially null on Conversion. There was the nagging feeling he was truthful on his entrance post (scumclaim) and not much of what he said spoke to me. I was primarily townreading Acrofales.
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On March 06 2019 23:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:33 Grackaroni wrote:On March 06 2019 23:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:16 Grackaroni wrote:
You're directing this at the wrong person. HF actually addressed the posts that Palmar made on Monday. Rayn didn't and he voted HF for mayor so that HF would kill Palmar without commenting on what Palmar wrote about Sentinel/Conversion/Mocsta.
I have a lot more belief that HF had conviction in his Palmar read than I do that Rayn did. On March 06 2019 23:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Sentinel
BH
Rayn
3 players very very likely to be scum. Have you forgotten about the case i made on Palmar which Palmar said was correct? Palmar said that the reason you two butted heads was his fault. You didn't write anything about Palmar being scum that should have been considered more important than Palmar's scumhunting posts on Monday. When Palmar was scumhunting on monday (and my tuesday) i was at work.
But then you came back later in the day and voted HF mayor because you wanted to kill Palmar, so it's kind of on you if you aren't reading the filter of the person you're voting to kill.
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Like Grack, i am not going to be a hypocrite and come tell "i would have done this and that if i was around". because i wasn't, and couldnt be. I am not even going to come and tell in hindsight it was a bad (or scummy) decision to kill Palmar because i dont know what i would have done in case i was around.
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On March 06 2019 23:35 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:33 Grackaroni wrote:On March 06 2019 23:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:16 Grackaroni wrote:
You're directing this at the wrong person. HF actually addressed the posts that Palmar made on Monday. Rayn didn't and he voted HF for mayor so that HF would kill Palmar without commenting on what Palmar wrote about Sentinel/Conversion/Mocsta.
I have a lot more belief that HF had conviction in his Palmar read than I do that Rayn did. On March 06 2019 23:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Sentinel
BH
Rayn
3 players very very likely to be scum. Have you forgotten about the case i made on Palmar which Palmar said was correct? Palmar said that the reason you two butted heads was his fault. You didn't write anything about Palmar being scum that should have been considered more important than Palmar's scumhunting posts on Monday. When Palmar was scumhunting on monday (and my tuesday) i was at work. But then you came back later in the day and voted HF mayor because you wanted to kill Palmar, so it's kind of on you if you aren't reading the filter of the person you're voting to kill.
*Around the end of the day.
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On March 06 2019 23:35 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:33 Grackaroni wrote:On March 06 2019 23:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:16 Grackaroni wrote:
You're directing this at the wrong person. HF actually addressed the posts that Palmar made on Monday. Rayn didn't and he voted HF for mayor so that HF would kill Palmar without commenting on what Palmar wrote about Sentinel/Conversion/Mocsta.
I have a lot more belief that HF had conviction in his Palmar read than I do that Rayn did. On March 06 2019 23:24 Grackaroni wrote:
Sentinel
BH
Rayn
3 players very very likely to be scum. Have you forgotten about the case i made on Palmar which Palmar said was correct? Palmar said that the reason you two butted heads was his fault. You didn't write anything about Palmar being scum that should have been considered more important than Palmar's scumhunting posts on Monday. When Palmar was scumhunting on monday (and my tuesday) i was at work. But then you came back later in the day and voted HF mayor because you wanted to kill Palmar, so it's kind of on you if you aren't reading the filter of the person you're voting to kill.
Palmar was never scumhunting properly imo when i was around.
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On March 06 2019 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:29 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote:
Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1 I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did. Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered. Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta?
Who the fuck knows, or cares?
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On March 06 2019 23:01 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 22:32 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 22:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:01 Tubesock wrote:
I’d scum the shit out if HF if he platformed killing Palmar, cased and scumread him, and didn’t kill him. Maybe MAYBE not if he killed scum instead. I think I’d still think he could be scum for killing a lurker mafia.
To me the ONLY plausible reason to scumread HF is because he said he tried to change it. And even that is 50/50 really. Everything else he’s done has been good for town.
People say he has a big ego, you think he thought Palmar was scum and wouldn’t shoot for epic plays???
You voters should be arguing that HF didn’t really believe his Palmar case.
But you can’t cause he did. This! This is the thing that makes all "HF is scum" believers either retards or mafia. You're scumming me, but I literally did that. On March 06 2019 20:50 Acrofales wrote:
I know you're new here, but what the hell is this? Doing "specifically pro-mafia stuff" is stuff town doesn't do. You say it's a bad read, but him killing Palmar was almost entirely off his ego being too big for Palmar to beat him in a mayor election. There isn't even any townie reasoning there, it is entirely based on "goal 1": the town isn't big enough for the two of them, so he kills Palmar. It wasn't a "bad read". It wasn't a read at all. I don't have time right now to collect all my notes in one place, but this is clearly important. So here is his Palmar case: On March 04 2019 18:14 Holyflare wrote:On March 04 2019 18:09 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 04 2019 18:07 Holyflare wrote:
My mayor lynch will be on Palmar by the way. I can get behind this, but what's the reasoning behind it? Only talks about town reads, has no suspicions on pretty much anything in the game. Perpetuates nonsense policy lynch after he likes Sentinel's effort when he hasn't even read it. His last post about acro is entirely a wall of hedge whereby he looks like he's falsely weighing up Acro's alignment but really it's wishy washy and says nothing. His iamp read looks completely bs too for similar reasons to his acro read. Iamp is town but wait here's reasons I can say he's not town later in the game. None of this is concrete town palmar stuff. There's also the fact we can acknowledge that mafia were pushing for his candidacy if he does flip mafia  This was on sunday evening, when he was mostly right that Palmar hadn't played much yet. But they were both around all of monday, and nothing happened except HF's ego got more hurt: On March 05 2019 06:38 Holyflare wrote:
Palmar (11): Palmar, Ticktock, Meapak_Zipphh, Acrofales, Vivax, WaveofShadow, Grackaroni, Conversion, Alakaslam, Trfel, Blazinghand
How has this guy got 11 people voting for him when his sole policy is only to kill Sentinel who doesn't even look bad?
Almost the entirety, if not THE entirety of this wagon is the sketchiest people in this game. It's even growing! And this one is blatantly false: On March 05 2019 07:18 Holyflare wrote:
Especially now that more people are actually voting him when he has said nothing else of value. Like... I did the exercise at the time, and tried to read Palmar as scum. I got through the weekend thinking he might be right, because Palmar posted a policy lynch and a bunch of town reads. I did find he was throwing off townie vibes, but figured it might have been him throwing me a green read to bedazzle me. But all of monday (the above post is made an hour and a bit before deadline), Palmar was deep diving people, engaging people, and hunting scum. Classifying that as "nothing of value" is nonsense. So no, HF really didn't have much of a case on Palmar at all. Definitely not one that shows conviction, and certainly not one where he is trying to actually figure out if he's right or not. He parked the case on Sunday evening and didn't bother analysing anything Palmar did all of Monday. Now I get that HF is apparently an egomaniac, but he is completely uncritical of his read. He doesn't return to it, just reiterates any time anybody asks that he will kill Palmar. Lamp and Koshi come to their own conclusions of Palmar. They were obviously wrong, but you can see their thought process and you can see Koshi engage with Palmar about it. Not so at all with HF. This is pretty misconstrued. Who did Palmar want to kill other than sentinel? Who the fuck knows until right near deadline where he finally posted something and also spammed wiggles. This also isn't all I posted in the slightest: Show nested quote +On March 05 2019 10:03 Holyflare wrote:On March 05 2019 09:53 marvellosity wrote:
HF mate, why did you actually kill Palmar?
I don't want a quote from your posts, just the actual reason(s) ? I thought his early posts were colossally bad. I didn't like how he kept coming up with reasons to read people one way or another that on closer inspection turned out to be massively false and then he'd just brush it away. This happened with: Rayn - where he came up with some factually incorrect meta and falsehoods in this game that got disproved and then called out by Rayn himself and Palmar just hand waved it away LS read - where he tried to further his incorrect point that he must be right on LS because rsoul and damdred agreed with him (and also therefore damdred must be town because they agreed on LS(????????????????)). It turned out neither of them really agreed anymore but he didn't update that read on damdred At the time I submitted the vote on palmar he had only 2 real attempts at scum reads and they turned out to be hedges instead on both acro and iamp so he really had no scum reads. He only started trying to scum read people after I called him out on it. Outside of Palmar himself there was an overwhelming wagon building on Palmar's mayorship out of nowhere. He had only stated that he was going to lynch sentinel and then after Sentinel posted not bad walls of text he never updated that read. His wagon kept growing but with nobody really casting doubt on Sentinel further (other than like 1-2 people) so Palmar seemed to be in direct contention with my mayor votes for absolutely no reason whatsoever (I even had sentinel as my lynch policy for a long while). I ultimately ended up still lynching Palmar: A) because my vote was locked in and I never really got to change it to BH when your slot and vivax saved him B) I would much rather have fun with a lynch on a really polarising player to lynch instead of some shitty policy lynch anyway that may or may not have actually turned into a scum BH. We now have about 100 different reads on this lynch and we have the flip to boot. It wouldn't have been the same if Palmar didn't flip either. I was tempted to vote some non-entity but that's really really fucking boring and wouldn't be fun. Show nested quote +Palmar - (wishy washy Iamp post, wishy washy Acro post. I call him out that he has no solid scum reads and he has to hunker down and scum read someone. Defaults to Sentinel still, can't see any motivation from sentinel other than scum motivation. He then makes some bs analysis of the wagons acknowledging that his wagon is the most scum motivated one to follow but doesn't use that to reevaluate anything and doesn't question which of the people on the wagon are scummy. He defends Pandain who has literally posted nothing but coaching. This whole post to town read Damdred is so unnecessarily OTT it's ridiculous https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/542541-end-of-the-world-party-mafia?page=88#1750Makes a movement for Rayn to be mafia based on Rayn's activity which hasn't meant anything since a long time now. Doesn't even get what Rayn said correct. Doesn't even know what Damdred/Rsoul posted about LS. Not interested in figuring out game, instead tried to use others to prove his point. Wants to vote Conversion because Conversion was lazy but attributes it to mafia motivation instead of just someone being lazy. That's the crux of his entire read. Fakes some floundering on it when Conversion posts some irl excuse, seems pretty forced. After nothing in between Conversion drops off max scum vote list and is replaced with lurker and policy lynch. Not great at all.)
The former is literally after the lynch happened. The latter is a list post half an hour before the lynch when you've been harping on about Palmar all day. Both are a posteriori justifications rather than actually engaging him. And in particular the latter about when Palmar started scumhunting is quite blatantly false. But we can argue about that until we're both blue in the face, because you'll probably just "no true Scotsman" his scumhunting, just like rayn just did.
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On March 06 2019 23:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:29 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote:
Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1 I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did. Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered. Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta? Who the fuck knows, or cares?
I mean. What on earth in my filter gives you at all the impression that mocsta was ever my main scumspect. Like, at *any* point in the game ever?
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The last thing i saw from Palmar, that i was able to properly analyse, is that he ignored me completely when i wanted to talk about Acrofales and Meapak, which was something he himself asked me to do (talk about something that is not rayn vs palmar -- he said that). That put a huge red flag on him for me. He just shoved my analyses off, didnt comment on them in any way, and left. Then he made a completely incorrect claim towards me, which i responded to, which he aknowledged was a fault on his part. After that everything i read from Palmar didn't change my opinion on him, that is until the point i was at work and asked HF what he is going to do.
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On March 06 2019 23:35 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:11 rsoultin wrote:
@Tube
My initial problem with you was how much time you seemed to be spending on your townreads vs. scumreads with pokes that didn't seem to lead anywhere being the rest of your filter. But on a reread it looks better largely cause I can see the read progression on some of the players.
Can you please explain your read on Palmar D1 and what made you okay with a Conversion lynch? I didn’t have a Palmar read. He wasn’t doing anything that I could see a mafia not do. Like what you said about HF when he didn’t further antagonize someone and you towned him for it, when if he were mafia he would probably let it go further. It’s a small thing and a subjective thing. These little things when they repeat often enough become a townread. Palmar just wasn’t alive long enough for that to happen for me. I definitely preferred him living and I liked what I saw, but there wasn’t a single thing I saw that mafiaPalmar couldn’t/wouldn’t do. I mean mafiaPalmar generically. I use this metric on most people. I was essentially null on Conversion. There was the nagging feeling he was truthful on his entrance post (scumclaim) and not much of what he said spoke to me. I was primarily townreading Acrofales.
Then why the vote early game?
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On March 06 2019 23:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:29 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote:
Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1 I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did. Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered. Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta? Who the fuck knows, or cares?
You should
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On March 06 2019 23:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:37 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:29 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote:
Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1 I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did. Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered. Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta? Who the fuck knows, or cares? You should
No.
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Because the ninja vote is on the right train, I'm gonna let it slide:
On March 06 2019 23:39 Alakaslam wrote:
##Vote: HolyFlare
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On March 06 2019 23:40 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2019 23:37 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 23:29 Acrofales wrote:On March 06 2019 23:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2019 22:47 Acrofales wrote:
Also, my Mocsta case? Huh? I haven't cased Mocsta. I definitely didn't case him D1 I never said you cased him. I said you scumread him and Palmar scumread him, which you both did. Except... I didn't. At least not by the time it actually mattered. Who were the mayoral candidates going to lynch when you did have a scumread on Mocsta? Who the fuck knows, or cares? I mean. What on earth in my filter gives you at all the impression that mocsta was ever my main scumspect. Like, at *any* point in the game ever?
I dont care if Mocsta was your top 1 or top 5 scumread but you and Palmar agreed on Mocsta being mafia at some point when all mayors wanted to kill your townreads and you didnt do fucking shit. How fucking hard is this to explain? Are you like 5 yrs old?
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EPT
