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Alright HF, you've said that DF's filter is "all just filler posts and no actual want to solve anything" and followed up later by saying "No drive, probably mafia." But we have plenty of players in the game who have shown no drive, or have put in no effort to solve anything, or have been no help. Kelsier and chaoser have been no help. prpl has been no help. I feel like Tubesock has been no help. When we're 46 hours into the game, I think you'd have to categorize Damdred (and his mighty single-page filter) as having been little or no help. If I lump DF into that category, it means that fully half of the other 12 players in the game with me have been no help.
So I don't think DF's lack of drive automatically makes him a good lynch, unless you feel like a Town DF *would* show an actual "want to solve anything" and *would* show "drive." Is that the case? Because again, unless there's reason for you to expect more than this from a Town DF, then I don't see anything that makes this particular mole the one that needs whacking.
His posting style is pretty careless. The filter is filled with him either repeating something he already said, or repeating something someone else already said.
An example of him repeating himself is this post:
On March 07 2018 07:27 darthfoley wrote:
n00b/rsoultin/AMG/Damdred is my town list ATM
He'd already named all 4 of those players as townreads. No need for a new, distinct post that merely says the same thing.
And an example of him repeating another player is this:
On March 08 2018 04:49 darthfoley wrote:
FF's filter reads like he's heavily influenced by the slightest amount of thread sentiment.
he's talked about lynching prplhz, rsoultin, vivax, Tubesock, me with basically no explanation.
Which is basically everyone that has had any pressure on him/herself today. I'm fine scum reading him
That post might as well be a copy & paste of Moosy's "King of Wagons" thing. (By the way, I think "Wagon King" would sound way cooler than "King of Wagons." Calls to mind the Witch King. Good stuff.)
DF also parroted my verbiage almost exactly, when talking about prpl's "wishy washyness."
I'd expect a little more caution and a little more mindfulness than this, from most scum players. If a scum player wasn't going to pay any more attention than this, why bother even making the posts? Just be yet another afk dude instead.
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On March 08 2018 04:30 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 20:03 AMG wrote:
this wagon on Vivax is a farce. Lynching someone who hasn't posted when you've got plenty of stuff in the thread to work with is just lazy.
He flips scum, what do we learn? nada. squat. I mean yay we got a scum, but its just dumb ass luck if he flips scum. Conversely he flips town, everyone on his wagon says 'welp he was afk, had it coming', and we chuck an entire cycle away.
Lots of bad reasoning here, imo. Lynching an afk player at the end of D1 is not the same as chucking the cycle away. All of the D1 discussion and voting still happened (and analysis of it can still have value) even if you settle on a player who hasn't posted, at the end The only thing that would marginalize the value of the D1 discussion is if everyone knew throughout the phase that ultimately an afk player will be lynched. That definitely has not been the case in this game. Additionally, for a player who isn't posting to flip scum in this game may not be "just dumb ass luck." While rsoul said that no-showing the game thread was more scum-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser, I think no-showing the game thread can be scum-indicative in THIS game, for ANY player, regardless of that player's personal history, given the fact that so much of the pre-game discussion revolved around the idea that the setup is heavily town-favored. Under those conditions, any player who pulled a scum role could be more likely to no-show the main thread than they ordinarily would be. Speaking of rsoul's comment that no-showing the thread is more alignment-indicative for Vivax and Kelsier than it is for chaoser...if that's how she felt, then after HF says Vivax is actually prone to going afk as either alignment, and Vixax makes an appearance, and rsoul takes her vote off of Vivax, I don't know why she wouldn't just go to the next stop, and put the vote on Kelsier. How is that not the natural next step in the progression/thought process? And it's not like as if she's even passing over that logical next step in favor of some other logical vote. She's passing over the logical next step in favor of just not voting. When she asked Moosy who her scummates would be and I said that one of them would almost have to be Kelsier or chaoser, I was at least half-joking, and maybe more like 90% joking. But everything that's happened since then has sure followed that script, so if one of those players eventually flips red, I think she would need additional scrutiny. Based on the current vote count, I'm gonna go read the DF filter. Back soon.
Your criticism is both fair and logical but disregards that
1) I have not been here
2) When I came back I was clearly inclined to scumread HF which always beats out null reads...It being most alignment indicative for vivax to afk does not mean I thought he was more scummy ago than an actual scumread
3) When I came back I found it weird that vivax was only commenting on the beginning of the game while making reads on people that seeme only possible to come from later in the game...thus disjointed
So yeah. Basically your logic makes sense out of context but is pretty moot now. Particularly since I think it was obvious I was proving my t ownreads because I thought I was probably wrong on someone.
Making all the above fairly ironic given I'm inclined to neither scumread HF nor vivax again but whatever ><
Ff apparently forgetting his scumread on me and bouncing all over the place like a jumping bean is sneezing me out, though.
Thanks, HF.
On mobile and I want to read some filters. I should be home with a little less than an hour before deadline, but will be checking in periodically when I have Wi-Fi.
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I'll be around for nearly another hour before needing to leave, if anyone wants to hash any topics out, or otherwise convince me that my vote needs to be moved before I go.
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Damdred is a low effort player, it's not uncharacteristic for him to post a few town reads and afk for a long period of time. Kelsier and chaoser are flat out afk and it's irrelevant because even if both of them are scum then the third mafia is still in the game. Damdred has a drive to solve by eliminating town reads. Darthfoley is a player that is shot n1, puts in effort regardless of alignment and actually plays. When he has no drive, doesn't actually commit to anything and posts as he is then it's simply more likely that he's mafia.
You can't say that mafia is disheartened by the game type earlier and then say that darthfoley doesn't look like scum because he appears disheartened, not cautious and isn't putting in effort.
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I don't even know what your last post actually is. Is it a scum read or a town read? It's the first third contradicting what I said, the next third saying he's doing scummy things and the last third saying he's not mafia because he does scummy things?
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On March 08 2018 04:55 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 02:00 Holyflare wrote:
I'll be nice rsoul and summarise some brief points:
DF picks up on things that the ordinary player would call scummy and makes a passing comment and drops it. There is no follow up nor care to what he sees, it's just observations.
DF makes posts calling people scummy and only elaborates on one of those people while having said absolutely nothing about the others or alluding to why they are mafia.
DF then says something to me about sharing 75% of the same reads so why did I say he looks bad but then does he actually care what I reply?
Nah, it's all just filler posts and no actual want to solve anything. I don't even know what this means. I obviously care what you replied, but you didn't explain shit and I wasn't in the mood to try and get it out of you because I didn't feel like being ignored a la rsoultin. Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 12:51 darthfoley wrote:On March 07 2018 11:46 Holyflare wrote:
Actually df I've reread your filter and I think you're below prplhz instead. Lots of holes and pointlessness imo. okay I'm sorry your sarcasm senses weren't tingling Regarding to "not alluding to why they are mafia" I think this post alludes pretty obviously Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 05:02 darthfoley wrote:On March 06 2018 20:18 prplhz wrote:
This whole Tubesock push seems like something I'd like, but be wrong about. I'm interested in seeing where it goes though.
AMG seems to be making excuses for scumreading people. Not sure what this is referring to. I feel like AMG has been pretty open so far
Yeah you make it hard for me to consider voting you for completely non-game related reasons lol ><
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Yeah, that bolding prplhz's one point and not being sure what he meant was a totally good scum read from df ^^
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On March 08 2018 06:10 rsoultin wrote:
Your criticism is both fair and logical but disregards that
1) I have not been here
2) When I came back I was clearly inclined to scumread HF which always beats out null reads...It being most alignment indicative for vivax to afk does not mean I thought he was more scummy ago than an actual scumread
3) When I came back I found it weird that vivax was only commenting on the beginning of the game while making reads on people that seeme only possible to come from later in the game...thus disjointed
1) You were here when you unvoted Vivax. If you had no better place to put the vote than the next no-show in the progression (Kelsier) then that's where it should have gone. If you did have a better place to put the vote (like a new scumread) then it should have gone there instead. Leaving yourself as a non-voter just looks like "Kelsier is where my vote was logically supposed to go next, but...I don't wanna."
2) Yet you voted against Vivax, and did NOT vote against HF.
3) Then you could have put your vote BACK on Vivax before leaving, instead of just threatening him about how you were tempted to. I don't get people's reluctance to just place a damn vote, but there's too much of it going in for me to label it as a scum-indicator.
Anyway, assuming we both survive the lynch, this discussion can wait til the Night Phase. It isn't something that needs to be occupying space in the thread while we're less than 2 hours from the lynch. And I won't get bug-eyed over any of it unless one of Kelsier/chaoser flips Red anyway.
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On March 08 2018 06:12 Holyflare wrote:
I don't even know what your last post actually is. Is it a scum read or a town read? It's the first third contradicting what I said, the next third saying he's doing scummy things and the last third saying he's not mafia because he does scummy things?
Lol >< Yeah that confused me, too.
Lot of text for too scummy to be scum.
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On March 08 2018 06:21 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 06:10 rsoultin wrote:
Your criticism is both fair and logical but disregards that
1) I have not been here
2) When I came back I was clearly inclined to scumread HF which always beats out null reads...It being most alignment indicative for vivax to afk does not mean I thought he was more scummy ago than an actual scumread
3) When I came back I found it weird that vivax was only commenting on the beginning of the game while making reads on people that seeme only possible to come from later in the game...thus disjointed 1) You were here when you unvoted Vivax. If you had no better place to put the vote than the next no-show in the progression (Kelsier) then that's where it should have gone. If you did have a better place to put the vote (like a new scumread) then it should have gone there instead. Leaving yourself as a non-voter just looks like "Kelsier is where my vote was logically supposed to go next, but...I don't wanna." 2) Yet you voted against Vivax, and did NOT vote against HF. 3) Then you could have put your vote BACK on Vivax before leaving, instead of just threatening him about how you were tempted to. I don't get people's reluctance to just place a damn vote, but there's too much of it going in for me to label it as a scum-indicator. Anyway, assuming we both survive the lynch, this discussion can wait til the Night Phase. It isn't something that needs to be occupying space in the thread while we're less than 2 hours from the lynch. And I won't get bug-eyed over any of it unless one of Kelsier/chaoser flips Red anyway.
Not sure why you bothered posting it in the first place then but okay.
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I will say it's rather annoying getting accused of not having "original" points or parroting people when I am in a timezone of maybe 2 other players. I wake up with 3-6 pages of game to read.
Sorry that I come to the same conclusions as other people just later. I just talked about not having read Moosy's posts particularly closely, so I don't doubt that I missed that "King of Wagons" post.
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Rsoultin, did you take a look at DF in the meantime?
Reading through moosy I noticed he pointed out how you had DF on the radar for his entrance but I don't see much investigation into him afterwards even now that he's been in the spotlight for a while (hopefully I didn't miss anything).
To answer your previous question regarding my reads on you and Moosy:
I ruled you out based on tone and amount of content when I started playing and skimmed a bit. You bossing around the thread and Moosys general involvedness.
Just some heuristic early townreads to get started and reduce the pool of peeps I'm looking into. Those are superficial reads so prone to change as the game goes on.
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On March 07 2018 10:33 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 10:09 darthfoley wrote:On March 07 2018 10:04 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2018 05:01 n00bKing wrote:
Thanks for those answers, rsoul.
HF's "good chat" post makes me uneasy. Should it not? You mentioned him as townpile after that post, so I'm assuming it didn't bother you. But since the time that he tried to shut down discussion of a D1 mass claim, he didn't really put forth anything else to discuss in its place. He's barely talked about anything but Tubesock. I'm guessing "good chat" means he's satisfied with the direction of the thread/voting at this stage, but that could be good for Town or bad for Town. lol
@Holyflare: No follow-up questions for your vote target? No reactions to anything else that's been said about your vote target in the meantime? No comments on anything else that's going on? (admittedly, not much else is going on...)
@Damdred: Have any strong impressions on HF? (just with regard to his allegiance, not with regard to whether he is/isn't "a medic" for one side or the other) None at all really. Who are you scumreading? or town reading? amg/noob rsoul big gap of nothing damdred moosy darthfoley prplhz tubesock bunch of afkers and vivax being one of them means absolutely nothing
Ironic that half of your accusation of me is that I don't explain anything, considering you've explained like 2 reads in this entire game... and one of them (scum reading Tubesock for believing your medic claim) was proven to be pretty much NAI.
I also think your play this game seems kind of disheartened.
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On March 08 2018 06:11 Holyflare wrote:
You can't say that mafia is disheartened by the game type earlier and then say that darthfoley doesn't look like scum because he appears disheartened, not cautious and isn't putting in effort.
It'll make more sense if you read all of it? He doesn't appear disheartened, and he's putting in more than no effort, even if it's fairly low effort. He's definitely NOT cautious. Like I said already, if he were disheartened and not wanting to put in any effort, why is he even making the posts he is, instead of just blending in with the other lurkers/no-shows? And if he's made the decision to make posts and play, and is scum, then why is he not more cautious?
On March 08 2018 06:12 Holyflare wrote:
I don't even know what your last post actually is. Is it a scum read or a town read? It's the first third contradicting what I said, the next third saying he's doing scummy things and the last third saying he's not mafia because he does scummy things?
Mmm, no. The first third contradicts what you said, the next third says he's doing things that are NOT scummy, and the last third says he doesn't look like Mafia to me because the things he's doing are NOT scummy (I have no idea where you would get the idea that I was labeling his carelessness as scummy. Quite the opposite.) All 3 parts are in accordance with each other. They all mean "this is a bad lynch unless you have reason to believe that a Town DF would be playing differently than this."
And you have now said that "When he has no drive, doesn't actually commit to anything and posts as he is then it's simply more likely that he's mafia." That's NEW information. And changes things.
Does anyone agree with HF's assessment of DF's play in other games?
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Running my son into daycare and will hopefully be back before the lynch but I'm not on board with a Df lynch. Call it self serving but his reads align with mine and he seems to be making sense to me.
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On March 08 2018 06:24 rsoultin wrote:
Not sure why you bothered posting it in the first place then but okay.
So I wouldn't forget to respond to you.
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On March 08 2018 06:31 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2018 10:33 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2018 10:09 darthfoley wrote:On March 07 2018 10:04 Holyflare wrote:On March 07 2018 05:01 n00bKing wrote:
Thanks for those answers, rsoul.
HF's "good chat" post makes me uneasy. Should it not? You mentioned him as townpile after that post, so I'm assuming it didn't bother you. But since the time that he tried to shut down discussion of a D1 mass claim, he didn't really put forth anything else to discuss in its place. He's barely talked about anything but Tubesock. I'm guessing "good chat" means he's satisfied with the direction of the thread/voting at this stage, but that could be good for Town or bad for Town. lol
@Holyflare: No follow-up questions for your vote target? No reactions to anything else that's been said about your vote target in the meantime? No comments on anything else that's going on? (admittedly, not much else is going on...)
@Damdred: Have any strong impressions on HF? (just with regard to his allegiance, not with regard to whether he is/isn't "a medic" for one side or the other) None at all really. Who are you scumreading? or town reading? amg/noob rsoul big gap of nothing damdred moosy darthfoley prplhz tubesock bunch of afkers and vivax being one of them means absolutely nothing Ironic that half of your accusation of me is that I don't explain anything, considering you've explained like 2 reads in this entire game... and one of them (scum reading Tubesock for believing your medic claim) was proven to be pretty much NAI. I also think your play this game seems kind of disheartened.
It's not really ironic, no.
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So uh yea, I shouldn't be lynched. Let's make that not happen people
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On March 08 2018 06:03 AMG wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2018 00:08 Vivax wrote:
Follow up by AMG looks better at glance given he sticks his head in many different places and generally gives off a vibe of wanting to do stuff which is a plus for him on D1. Doesn't allow me to exclude him as mafia though.
I don't see what would have required catching up in regards to his initial tubesock read however. It remains a read that is essentially based on Tube being prickly entirely, except that the actual vote happens only when Noobking votes.
His initial impression that Tube is prickly goes from being an observation to an explanation for why it is scummy to a vote for other reasons.
It looks like he reacts to his own posts to keep up a narrative in this case.
I see it like this could have happened:
Townie overreacts to other townie, AMG spots possible fault by TS, calls him prickly but doesn't go with it anywhere. So he needs to make a followup posts telling us that he thinks it's a mafia trait cause the previous post alone in the room would look bad.
Only when Noobking attacks Tubesock AMG decides to vote for him, and he does it by rehashing/agreeing with what Noobking said.
So AMG was kind of looking for reasons to get onto Tubesock purely for the reason he called him prickly already, and since his own reason didn't get enough pull, he only felt like he had the opportunity to do so when Noobking voted first.
This is summed up what's not right with AMG in my opinion. You completely overlook the reason I take issue with tubesock which I've gone over two or three times now. His pricklyness catches my eye, as did him having a read that conflicted with mine, so I challenged his read. He refused to discuss anything with me at all, like he didn't give a shit about my alignment and had no drive to find out why I had a different opinion to him.
Except all of this happened not at once but you went from prickly->didn't fight your read->disengaged in your argumentation where you placed your vote at the final one after noobking did.
So I can see you as mafia just building on your previous posts reacting to what you wrote to create a tubesock scumread which was consistent with what you already wrote, especially cause of your decision on when to place the vote (when another one already did)
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I am actually open to the idea I'm wrong on either of you atm and after reading a bit of tube (since he talks about himself instead of finding mafia most of the time, but could be cause he's been in the defensive).
And cause I'm always hesitant to lynch possible assets D1 I'm checking if there might be other ones worth lynching over df.
Since you are so hung up on tube though I'd expect you to bring forward something more than what you already have and your read on him hasn't evolved much from that point onwards.
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