Newbie Student Mafia XXVIII

On January 05 2018 01:53 TheTwatyEvildoer wrote:
Hello,

/in. Hopefully goes better than the one game I played in real life.

On January 18 2018 21:36 Holyflare wrote:
Twat is smart.

On January 18 2018 22:27 Damerion wrote:


He has BeenThereDoneThat, Holyflare and Rsoultin as his town I believe.

Damdred believes Holyflare is the best mafia player on the site and always hedges on him, so his read on Holyflare seems out of character at the time.

His read on BeenThereDoneThat is based on much less than he normally would give, and no reasoning or interaction with Rsoultin.

Damdred is excellent at finding town, I believe he might be the best in that regard. However this is out of line for him to act this way. I will respect you wanting to wait on him however.

On January 18 2018 22:33 Damdred wrote:
But I disagree with the read, firstly I do recognize my word usage of the word like has at times.... been extreme. And I am surprised that nobody has really caught it a bit to that point. But once I realized what I was doing a few games ago with getting excited I decided it was time to eliminate it just because as you put it sounding like "a valley girl" is not appealing to me lol.

On January 18 2018 22:33 Damdred wrote:
really interesting you came out against me though, not sure what it makes you. I am a hard target so I give you credit damer for coming at me, but also seems like a way to change conversation away from DF and moc who I guess you have at null?

So hm I guess i'm leaning town on damer seems a bit suicidal way to bring attention to himself in that way especially with the game kinda stale?

On January 19 2018 02:36 TheTwatyEvildoer wrote:

Hi,

Can you explain what is weird about his post in your eyes?

On January 18 2018 18:56 beentheredonethat wrote:

Its a normal start for HF, youre giving him too much credit. No reason to be disappointed. The whole thing feels weird.

Tina is having a good start, I like her. I also like hfs cream joke since it feels genuine, but that's pretty nai. Im eager to call out afkers and place some votes upon them to get them playing.

On January 19 2018 07:07 rsoultin wrote:
I think my phone is now cutting off sentences or in posting too sleepily :/

DF reason to post first post not clear to me.

Want to lynch HF for difficult to explain reasons. I think it's mostly a sense of leechyness, like he's a mind parasite adding bottom but etting some things on and kissing in others. Both of which he can also do as an active player but usually with his own thoughts actually mixed in. I also know that lynching him is like pulling teeth, especially on day one.

How do you expect me to have a conversation with Damdred when we werent around at the same time, Rels?

On January 19 2018 07:55 Damdred wrote:
I dont think I have ever panicked from pressure as scum. If I have an example of that should be quite easy to find.

Also i dont believe that me trying to remove a word from my postings degrades my town game. I noticed something and changed it, big whoop.

I can disagree with how he is using a point and still agree that something is/was factually correct however.

tina and kel can enter the town pile and hf can get out of it. I do not think he can be this obtuse as town.

Hi sleepy tina

On January 19 2018 23:51 rsoultin wrote:


I'm beginning to wonder if everyone is just tryin to butter me up now -_- I need a hit of twatty hate. I started rabbit holing on ksc earlier then just threw up my hands and said fuck it hes on board with me without being a complete yes man.

You. Telling me I'm town is lovely and all but the game would be much easier for me if a town Rels showed face.

On January 20 2018 00:03 rsoultin wrote:


Tina brains says he made one post Tina. Be cool.

Tina heart says ♡!

That's new. That's right. That's exciting. I may actually have a town rels.

Either coincidence fucked him or he really should have responded to that, shouldn't he?

On January 20 2018 00:16 rsoultin wrote:


???

On January 20 2018 00:16 rsoultin wrote:

I have no clue. I've been living under the sand for awhile while getting my masters.

I thought he was the easy scum catch I picked out in a protoss pick your power game and wasn't worrying about him as a sleeper cell.

Feel similarly about btdt and df....but not completely. Giant post without push doesn't exactly scream that it can't be scum/scum. Giant post on btdt but pushing mocsta anyway diminished the impact of it.

On January 20 2018 00:36 rsoultin wrote:
Maybe. Why you? Other than the implicit hes scum your town obvious in that reasoning...I mean you're a strong town player, but you haven't been a force in this game.

On January 18 2018 22:38 Damerion wrote:


I think Damdred is overselling his ability to bus, he has stated multiple times in the past he wants to move away from bussing. And the onky reason he bussed in his last scum game was because it was an accident and his team accidently voted with him.

On January 20 2018 01:50 Kmatt wrote:
Real quick, does anyone find Twat to be sketchy at this point? I had him casually marked as town like most people earlier, but he ducked out immediately after asking a question earlier. While I'm in no place to call out AFK what with my new "don't lead a mislynch wagon d1" strat, the fact that he was being townread, then asked someone (Rels' doubt of BTDT, for what it's worth) a question, and bailed feels wrong to me. Being thread is a perfect reason to talk more. Rels even comes back with a substantial answer. Seems pretty scummy to take your towncred and run with it like that.

On January 20 2018 03:48 beentheredonethat wrote:
I come here, read just the top of page 17, and it's a btdt wagon. that's scum pushing afk btdt. I've literally been there, done that.

so anything I'm supposed to answer? I'm not catching up rn, im tired.

On January 20 2018 04:43 darthfoley wrote:
The fact that like 4 people are agreeing with my scum read on BTDT while also pushing me is scummy as fuck.

On January 20 2018 04:43 darthfoley wrote:
Kelsier sticks out as particularly odd in this progression



This implies some sense of skepticism or town read on me. He then 180s more or less by giving a vague summary of my filter to justify the current hot-take in the thread.

What is this reasoning?



Why do you prefer to lynch DF > BTDT but if BTDT doesn't do anything, then BTDT > DF. How does this make any sense? Why would your lynch preference change if nothing changes?

On January 20 2018 04:59 darthfoley wrote:
Okay so I looked through Kelscier's filter.

Basically.

+ Show Spoiler +



Now that people seem to be warming to the idea of DF/BTDT wagons, mderg is conveniently forgotten even though he doesn't provide any explanation. Like he goes through all this effort to basically summarize my whole filter as some justification to vote me.

On January 19 2018 19:59 KelsierSC wrote:


Ok that makes some sense.



So based on rsoultin and HF's discussion and previous thoughts. You believe that damdred is town and Rels is scum who has just sidled onto the wagon without saying much. Do you think one of HF and damerion is also scum aswell? or both?

On January 20 2018 05:17 Damdred wrote:
need two more votes on df fast, or he will save himself and im lynched.

On January 20 2018 00:40 Rels wrote:

Damdred I would like your thoughts on the above.

On January 20 2018 05:34 Damdred wrote:


Sure, I liked his poatings and tone. he seemes free and relaxed, no hidden motivation to me reading his posts.

Not super panicked about being lynched as well. Ovrall hes a bit side lined but i like him meh

On January 20 2018 05:50 Damdred wrote:


to whatbpart? i have tryied to give up the bus, and laat time was accidental.

But i do love bussing and the cred i get meh

On January 20 2018 05:49 rsoultin wrote:


And your explanation for his not just jumping on btdt?

I'd like to see how you built your meta case if it's entirely on that game in November. Well, obviously it couldn't be, because you'd also need town games.

See what bugs me here is I have played with Damdred many times. I too have a meta way of reading him generally. And while some of your details are correct, we're reaching different conclusions. And you came out hard. Like you have a rock solid meta read on Damdred, tried and true, you know your shit, he's scum, period. For something just created from last game that's a ton of certainty when the game had barely started. It tickles my bullshit meter.

So please walk me through it.

On January 20 2018 06:15 darthfoley wrote:
Also @rels can you expand on why my read on BTDT is correct but the reasons are wrong? Specifically please.

On January 19 2018 05:02 darthfoley wrote:


BTDT strikes me as someone who's sort of just drifted through the game so far. Granted his filter is only a few posts, but the posts themselves seem careful not to step on any toes.

The progression in this post is scummy to me
1. It's a normal start for HF, you're giving him too much credit.
2. HF's cream joke "feels genuine" (implied town read)
3. But it's NAI (so why imply a town read 3 words beforehand?)

It just feels like a whole lot of hedging on HF.



This is basically the safest thing mafia can do ever lol. It doesn't ruffle any feathers. Have pressuring AFK people ever actually worked? They're AFK because... they aren't following the game. He also then ignores his own advice and throws a scum read on Mocsta.

I'm not understanding his thought progression at all

On January 20 2018 04:22 Holyflare wrote:
Lol btdt and damdred are a team

On January 20 2018 06:13 Holyflare wrote:


"now I'm yelling" should be translated to "now I'm actually home"

Btdt came into the thread saw votes and fucked off. Damdred also then tries to start a wagon against df siting that he just wants to get 2 votes and effectively leave. Damdred is definitely making me biased to prefer btdt (coupled with the apathy from btdt) over df.

But damdred lynch should one million percent be the lynch. Mocsta/btdt/damdred.

On January 20 2018 07:23 rsoultin wrote:
Damerion's first game comes closest to actually matching Holyflare's characterization. Extremely good reads there, mafia team call outs early. Still not the one at a time to exclusion of everyone else bit, but solid.

Lol it's funny rels cause my thought is I kind of want to lynch Damerion >> I just...why the fuck mischaracterize something so easy to check in hf's case?

On January 20 2018 06:30 Holyflare wrote:
Hey your accusation is changing. Better get that in check. I had a bit of free time at work previously to skim and see a btdt post where he fucked off said lol mafia and went about working again. Now I'm home with more free time and am posting more.

What you're seemingly saying is that I'm doing mafia things deflecting off df when he's going up for lynch even though I'm saying I don't care if he dies. Even though I've stuck to my same scum reads and have pushed the same things.

Maybe I should be less active instead then?

On January 20 2018 06:40 Holyflare wrote:
You're also doing irrelevant Damerion questioning. There's two people up for lynch afaik. Damdred and df. I would like a little more focus on that. Or even mocsta.

Why are people voting df?

On January 20 2018 06:53 Holyflare wrote:
I have read df's filter and I have determined he is not the lynch.

AT ALL.

I'm sticking my neck out and taking a stance.

On January 20 2018 07:30 rsoultin wrote:


Well, I'm not townreading him for sure. But I want to consolidate on not-Damdred so...

That's everyone on my original list of seven except you if I remember correctly. Who I'd vote over Damdred. I still don't like darth foley really but I remember not liking him anyway as town so that should be taken with a grain of salt. Damerion though...this doesn't read like his last three town games at all. And the meta's being applied wrong. I think I'd prefer his lynch over everyone now ><

On January 20 2018 07:36 Holyflare wrote:
I don't understand why it's so fucking hard to lynch damdred when he's literally doing shit all and makes a post to appease people and fucks off again. It's really quite simple that this is nothing like town damdred at all.

On January 20 2018 07:43 Holyflare wrote:
no idea where the text went but it said:

POINT OUT WHERE I FIGHT STRONGLY FOR BTDT AND DAMDRED OVER DF.

It's literally 2 fucking posts outlining legit points and then I read df and he looked fine

On January 20 2018 04:22 Holyflare wrote:
Lol btdt and damdred are a team

On January 20 2018 06:13 Holyflare wrote:


"now I'm yelling" should be translated to "now I'm actually home"

Btdt came into the thread saw votes and fucked off. Damdred also then tries to start a wagon against df siting that he just wants to get 2 votes and effectively leave. Damdred is definitely making me biased to prefer btdt (coupled with the apathy from btdt) over df.

But damdred lynch should one million percent be the lynch. Mocsta/btdt/damdred.

On January 20 2018 06:15 Holyflare wrote:


But it also proves I'm smart and follow through with my thoughts. Past me was really good.

On January 20 2018 06:15 Holyflare wrote:
I don't remember why I typed that though but past me was clearly ahead of his time.

On January 20 2018 06:17 Holyflare wrote:


I think it's because I saw this and instantly thought he was mafia.

Now confirmed mafia damdred is pushing AWAY from btdt because "reasons" onto df for nothing?

On January 20 2018 06:18 Holyflare wrote:


Stop wasting your time and brandishing your flagrantly wrong damdred read and vote him.

On January 20 2018 06:33 Holyflare wrote:
Kelsier
Rsoultin
Rels
Damerion

Mderg
Prplhz

Df

Damdred
Mocsta
Btdt


Town
Townish
Scummish
Scum

No particular order in brackets. Prplhz is town.

On January 20 2018 05:52 Rels wrote:

I think I saw you mention you love bussing at least 20 times since I've been playing mafia here. So I find weird that your friend Damerion is saying you're overselling your ability to bus. So since you know him well, I want to know if you think he could think that as town or not

On January 20 2018 07:55 Holyflare wrote:
no rels that is complete bull shit

they are all responses to "HF is pushing btdt and damdred over df now!"

and who gives a shit if I was? I don't remember df doing anything bad and I remember all those others doing bad things and damdred, my scum read, deflecting to df

should I not be pushing anyone?

On January 20 2018 07:59 Holyflare wrote:
and does that make me mafia or just someone who engages in pointless debates about explaining what I did and why I did it?

On January 20 2018 08:01 Holyflare wrote:
And it's ridiculous that you say that because you're simultaneously accusing me of deflecting off df while saying I'm not actually pushing anything. So which is it?

In fact that's such a bull shit accusation I'm removing you from the top of the list and moving you down to where df used to be.

On January 20 2018 08:04 Holyflare wrote:


read my filter where I outline it

On January 18 2018 22:33 Damdred wrote:
But I disagree with the read, firstly I do recognize my word usage of the word like has at times.... been extreme. And I am surprised that nobody has really caught it a bit to that point. But once I realized what I was doing a few games ago with getting excited I decided it was time to eliminate it just because as you put it sounding like "a valley girl" is not appealing to me lol.

On January 18 2018 22:43 Damdred wrote:
No seriously, I caught myself doing something and tried to change it just in time for someone to catch on and try to hammer me to the wall this game, thats some mighty fine irony I tell you what.

On January 20 2018 08:16 Rels wrote:


I forgot how stupid this reasonning is

On January 20 2018 08:18 rsoultin wrote:


@rels

On January 18 2018 22:33 Damdred wrote:
But I disagree with the read, firstly I do recognize my word usage of the word like has at times.... been extreme. And I am surprised that nobody has really caught it a bit to that point. But once I realized what I was doing a few games ago with getting excited I decided it was time to eliminate it just because as you put it sounding like "a valley girl" is not appealing to me lol.

On January 20 2018 08:51 rsoultin wrote:
Seriously rels? -_-

How does being surprised no one has caught that he uses the word like before translate to a contradiction with sounding like a valley girl?

I really don't think Damdred is scum here :/ I'm not going to say 100% sure because I'm not, but...it doesn't feel like scum to me. Meh.

On January 20 2018 20:18 rsoultin wrote:
Yeah so...

I still want Damerion.

Holyflare is still wrong. In his world, the meta read was developed on the fly during the course of this game, where clearly as Damerion himself admitted he compiled it after his last game with Damdred. Using a meta read that you believe to be true is something that any scummer can do. The tunneling to the exclusion of the global game does not resemble ANY of his three prior town games. At all. (And honestly he reminds me of an old player and friend here who played scum just like this, but that's neither here nor there).

More to the point, as town I would expect an attempt to use a new meta read, but I would not expect this level of surety this early. The 'like' bullshit that holyflare latched onto so hard is not something that you could reasonably expect to get a read on that early in the game.

Rather than using a meta read as a tool, Damerion used it as a bludgeon, and the holyflare cheerleading oh he's amazing and always right feels dirty to me. I recognize that this doesn't make holyflare scum, though; he's not an honest player as either alignment and will say what he can to get his lynch. So whatever.

Damerion should be the lynch. If only because I need to redeem myself for being such a boob yesterday. But also because he's scum. Not because he was wrong. Because of how he used the meta case and ignored everything else. He's clearly a good town player so he gets no 'oh maybe he's new, overconfident and overeager' from me.

I'm going to trust vets and coached newbies to know what to do if they're vig here. Damerion's the lynch tomorrow.

Going out with Lex for awhile. I'll look at the rest of the game hopefully tonight.

On January 21 2018 22:37 Mocsta wrote:
in hindsight .. i dont like this post
Note the capital No mid sentence.. reflects to me an importance om darthfoley

Want to hear more from this guy.

Tell me about mderg pls

On January 20 2018 05:45 KelsierSC wrote:
reckon the mafia QT was like

darth - Yo HF, damerion get back in the thread i'm getting fucked

hf, damerion - got your back fam.


---
this is not town damdred

look at damdred he is so scum.

----

dramatised obvz.

On January 23 2018 18:16 Holyflare wrote:
I feel like I'm mafia this game.

On January 23 2018 19:19 rsoultin wrote:

-pokes rels- What am I missing?

On January 23 2018 20:51 Mocsta wrote:
Im an entj if that means anything to you

I have a problem communicating my intraveeted intuition or "leaps of faith". And of course many times it was also wrong

Well i did a few years back at least.

Either way. Prob of no relevance to this game

In the end. My early play got the reactions feom darthfoley that led to him being caught. So was effective to some degree.

On January 23 2018 21:10 rsoultin wrote:


I read it as he caught himself saying 'like' too much generally, not in an alignment-indicative sense.

On January 18 2018 12:58 darthfoley wrote:
who is this mocsta character and why is he speaking so much?

On January 23 2018 21:14 rsoultin wrote:


I don't know. It's like anything else, isn't it? If you're trying not to, say, get as worked up at people as you usually do it's generally because you don't like the behavior in yourself.

Saying 'like' in a grammatically incorrect way (like geript does all the time) reads valley girl. Which in the states translates to stupid rich white girl on the West coast too consumed with her looks, money and material stuff.

I have no trouble seeing why he wouldn't want to talk that way if he caught himself doing it. But maybe it's easier to understand from an American perspective because I know where the speech pattern comes from?

On January 18 2018 17:18 Holyflare wrote:
Cos I'm town.

Also don't take mocsta's enthusiasm as towny. Looks pretty forced and says nothing.

On January 23 2018 21:21 rsoultin wrote:


I mean, this is all water under the bridge at this point, but given the tone of the rest of his post that's part of why I found it hard to buy holyflare's Damdred panicked story.

It was an entirely stupid response to being 'caught'. In the context of the post, that was mostly a brush-off as it read to me, it just sounds like he said whatever without considering how it would look to say it. Which usually means it's just true -shrugs- A truly panicked post I would expect to be aggressively defensive.

On January 18 2018 21:31 TheTwatyEvildoer wrote:

Lol, as and you shall be given.

I didn't consider the idea of distancing each other. But it still doesn't make sense in my head for Darthfoley to put himself into a spot that early on where now he and his teammate MCosta Rico are going to be the top scum on anybody list. Due to Mcosta Rico posting style, Darthfoley should have known that would of have already drawn a bunch of attention to his teammate. Therefore, if no actual progress is made by Mcosta Rico to get into a better spot, Darthfoley has to vote Mcosta Rico, or look very suspious for changing his read since he is clearly thinking Mcosta Rico is scummy for it.

If Mcosta Rico does improve, than attention will be shifted to Darthfoley, making it he'll for the team either way.

If that makes sense.

On January 23 2018 21:58 rsoultin wrote:
Actually...even though I felt he was organic before, it is odd that twatty apparently had mocsta and darth foley as scum, but not together, but instead interacts with pretty much everyone but them. Even Damdred. Who he votes as a 'placeholder' until his scumreads talk more?

On January 23 2018 22:48 mderg wrote:

He mentions Mocsta nearly as much as df tbh. Lots of his posts that mention df are in relation to Damdred having df and Mocsta in his scum pile.

The amount of focus he puts on the df and Mocsta scumreads from Damdred is much more unsettling to me.

On January 23 2018 23:52 Holyflare wrote:
My plan is working. Excellent.

On January 24 2018 01:48 Damerion wrote:
It might of been a small pool where we have played together, but Damdred has a remarkably large pool of games to pull from. Also it is not beyond the realm of possibility that in our long conversations Damdred and I discussed some aspects of how each other approaches the game.

On January 24 2018 09:06 Damerion wrote:
Also to give plenty of time for discussion and since I believe it clears more than myself anyway.

Hard claiming cop

Night One I checked Mocsta before my shift and it returned green.

Night two I checked Beentheredonethat and it returned green.

Holyflare caught me softing it and i seem to think it makes him town for me not being shot.

On January 24 2018 09:06 Damerion wrote:
Holyflare caught me softing it and i seem to think it makes him town for me not being shot.

On January 24 2018 16:21 justanothertownie wrote:
My job for this dayphase will be to read everything and doublecheck if a setup like this is actually conceivable considering past Kita Newbies. It would of course be nice.

On January 24 2018 16:40 justanothertownie wrote:

Yep?
All of these setups are less town favored than Cop + Vig alone.

On January 24 2018 16:45 justanothertownie wrote:

So basically if this claim was true the setup would be unprecedentedly town favoured.

On January 24 2018 17:48 Holyflare wrote:
I would still believe btdt over Damerion though after d1 vote count.

On January 24 2018 18:40 Mocsta wrote:

the problem with the darthfoley vote on btdt, is that it came about after talkign with rsoultin (who was voting btdt)

hard to say if it was to appease a high town cred person, or an easy town wagon to sheep.

The complexity comes in that his next post he calls rsoultin scum. (amongst btdt/me and kelsier)

if you want to look @ end of wagon, it comes down to whether scum would risk bussing btdt if one of the 2 afk suddenly voted.
i think its very expected on day1 for everyone to vote (heck, everyday, everyone should vote).. so i dont like a world where scum btdt/df were hoping the afks wouldnt hammer btdt.

On January 24 2018 18:41 Mocsta wrote:

well roleblocker is more synonymous with vig + protective role

whilst godfather with cop.

i.e. likely that scum have an RB.

On January 24 2018 18:53 beentheredonethat wrote:
Apparently we're lynching Damerion, is there a red check?

On January 24 2018 19:10 beentheredonethat wrote:
Hm, summarizing:

- having a Cop is unlikely with a vig in (see above)
- his checks are meh
- roleblocker is confirmed, so if we leave him alive for another check, scum will just roleblock and not kill him.
- no counter claim, so if it is a fakeclaim, the real blue stays alive and un-outed

Actually, I think lynching Damerion is a good idea.

On January 24 2018 19:30 justanothertownie wrote:
Parrot!Rels on the case again.

On January 24 2018 20:41 Mocsta wrote:
Do you think we can vote for early day?

On January 24 2018 17:44 Holyflare wrote:


Is it suspicious at all though?

On January 24 2018 17:46 Holyflare wrote:


You think there's a protective role that healed afk btdt 2 nights in a row?

On January 24 2018 17:47 Holyflare wrote:
Nevermind that healers are almost always nerfed?

On January 24 2018 17:48 Holyflare wrote:
I would still believe btdt over Damerion though after d1 vote count.

On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote:
Firstly I cannot say anything to past setups or if this one is to imbalanced for town, my checks were what I thought were the best at the moment and if I did not get the godfather we had three confirmed town with what to me seems very likely a fourth town in HolyFlare.

On January 24 2018 22:11 Damerion wrote:
In any case, I still think BTDT, Mocsta and Holyflare are town in this situation, and I understand that I am the probable lynch today in any case. I have green checks on the first two, HolyFlare should of killed me as scum and he somewhat dumb telled himself when he was going over roles that scum should have to counteract a Vig+Cop when he included a framer which I do not believe is possible by the OP.

On January 25 2018 00:56 justanothertownie wrote:

This post. Next level.

On January 25 2018 01:10 justanothertownie wrote:


^^^^
Interesting observation considering the damdred/darthfoley flips.
The question is: is this coincidence and does HF just have a really bad towngame or is he simply mafia?

On January 25 2018 01:18 justanothertownie wrote:
Well, he is really blatantly pushing mafia agenda eod1. No shame whatsoever. But HF is the guy to do this. What exactly was the reason to townread him? Because in the lead up to the lynch where it was a race between a town and a mafia there is absolutely no apathy to be found.

On January 25 2018 01:29 Holyflare wrote:


What was the correct reaction? You have to see it from my perspective tbh. I spend the game looking at Damerion giving him the massive benefit of the doubt and crumbing cop all night so I'm excited that I was actually right. Then btdt claims rb on my way into work and I'm deflated af because I think it's a cc and my ego takes another hit at being wrong so I just auto vote Damerion and go to work (which is super busy) and don't care much more than that.

On January 25 2018 02:36 Kmatt wrote:
I don't like lynching Damerion here without a counterclaim. It may not have been the best plan to spill the beans at the moment, but lynching him wins us no information at this point, and is unlikely to flip red (unless there's a counterclaim. Doc, if you're out there, now would be a good time). Even if he gets suppressed the rest of the game, he still votes with the town and/or eats a nightkill. As it stands BTDT or maybe HF are the better lynches.

On January 24 2018 01:48 Damerion wrote:
It was simple I am supremely confident in my ability to read the game and make decisions. And I believe highly even at this moment I will find scum and will not be lynched, in fact after the night is over I believe you will be unable to lynch me.

On January 24 2018 02:19 Holyflare wrote:
Lol I really like where this is going. I'm confirmed not mafia after tonight

On January 24 2018 03:12 Damerion wrote:
In either case tomorrow I am sure I will find scum and be a hero again.

Right now for instance I am sure Mocsta is town, there is no doubt in my mind. Holyflare and yourself are also high but not as high as him.

On January 24 2018 04:32 Holyflare wrote:
Mocsta is my biggest town read too

On January 24 2018 08:03 Holyflare wrote:
No, for real. Now that he's said it I can see it.

On January 24 2018 09:07 Holyflare wrote:
If Damerion isn't claiming cop with a green check on mocsta then all is wrong with the world.

On January 24 2018 09:06 Damerion wrote:
Holyflare caught me softing it and i seem to think it makes him town for me not being shot.

On January 24 2018 09:18 Damerion wrote:
And I disagree I think holyflare is more likely town in thia scenerio.

On January 25 2018 07:53 Holyflare wrote:
No, I actually wanted him to be shot.

On January 25 2018 08:04 Holyflare wrote:


Maybe you should think a bit deeper than your current thinking and get behind the actual plan.

If he's town and gets rbd and rsolutin dies:

We know there is no medic and he is almost definitely town cop because they killed the only person in the game that looked really towny without hesitation.

We confirm there's a rber in the game.

If he's mafia and gets "rbd":

They can't use their rb on another power role because it notifies and medic gets to save.

On January 25 2018 08:06 Mocsta wrote:
Dont worry, my vote is staying where it is

However, this batch of discussion (including JAT) is tunneled.
Town or Mafia would feel pressured after Night2. I could see a blue hardclaiming in that circumstance.
This is essentially a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario.

It doesnt matter though, the setup makes the claim extremely unlikely.

---

However, I was having trouble sleeping last night thinking of all the different perutations with this setup.

One oddity I couldnt get past regarding the the BTDT roleblock claim, is that the vet can be roleblocked for 1-shot NK.
Wouldnt ideal strategy be then to RB+NK?
Otherwise, vet can not only claim they are reason there was no NK, but can also claim the RB which makes them confirmed town.

I still cant fathom at all how a townie could vote to avoid modkill, but avoid sharing the roleblock knowledge.

The timing of everything is just frustrating.

On January 25 2018 08:08 Holyflare wrote:
you couldn't get much worse than he picked up activity after work which is coincidentally when the deadline is too so he's mafia argument though

On January 25 2018 08:19 Holyflare wrote:
You are massively missing Kmatt's posts.

On January 25 2018 23:48 justanothertownie wrote:

Sure, not pro town at all. But also quite ballsy as mafia. Risky play for a low chance of success given the state of the game

On January 26 2018 00:40 mderg wrote:
I can definitely see Hf's points

On January 25 2018 07:40 Rels wrote:
OK so I reread N2 to check that thing about HF softing he knew Damerion was blue. And it makes no sense if HF is town.

It starts with the first big post Damerion made after coming back, in which he had this part:

To which HF immediately reacted:

So. HF saw the hint that Damerion is blue, and immediately post it in the thread. Why ? What's the point of doing it if HF is town ? It gains town nothing. It's actually detrimental to the town, because if scum manage to understand it, they can use this information and kill or roleblock Damerion.

Then it happens again. In another post later on, Damerion softs on his "green check" on Mocsta:

And HF reacts with these two posts, showing again he thinks Damerion is blue, and more precisely, cop with a green check on mocsta:


Once again, why ? The reasonning is the same as above. It's even obvious in retrospective, anyone searching for blue in the thread will pick it up - IE scums.

So. It makes no sense for a town perspective to act like that. It makes total sense from a scum perspective though. The benefits are twofold:
- it makes HF appear smart and thinking about the game. The ironic thing about it is that it's totally about the appearance. It only serves to appear townie; but when you take the time to think about the town motivation behind it, there is none, and it's actually detrimental to the town. Total scum pointer there.
- if Damerion is his partner, this is a play prepared by both of them. It prepares the claim that will happen after the night is over:

And it attempts to gain towncred for HF:

---

Now here comes the meta part of this post. I think the above is sufficient to make anyone scum and making me want to lynch them. What's even scummier is that Holyflare is a player that always tries to play mindgames with the scum in order to make them waste kills or actions on Vanilla Townie. For example, he often says weird thing during the night, or says some player is an obvious blue, to confuse the scum team.

But he has not done that this game. In contrario, he softed exactly who he thought was the cop 3 times in the thread. This is 100% against the way he plays.

Now this is a meta read, so you will have to read some town games of his to verify it if you never played with him. But I think at least JAT can attest to it.

---

TLDR: I think HF is scum, and I think Damerion & HF make perfect sense as a team. HF softing he thinks Damerion is blue during the night is (1) totally against a townie's interest and (2) totally against HF own meta. Furthermore, them being together actually explains these posts: it would mean they were preparing the fakeclaim as soon as Damerion re-entered the thread during N2.

On January 26 2018 09:06 Kmatt wrote:
Does this theory on HF account for why he would bus him so quickly? I mean the whole thread was kind of against him but with how much he's been on me there wasn't even an attempt on a counterwagon.

On January 26 2018 09:15 Holyflare wrote:
There's a big disconnect between hf being the best mafia player on the site and mafia holyflare doing something blatantly anti town like calling out a cop claim.

Does not compute.

On January 26 2018 09:13 Kmatt wrote:
Could you link me the game where town ignores cop's check? That takes a special kind of stupid.

I'm not above voting him though, he's been on my list anyway. In fact I don't think he's ever not someone I want to lynch.

On January 26 2018 09:50 Mocsta wrote:
No one is 100% scum till flipped bro

Damerion was 99%

On January 26 2018 09:53 Mocsta wrote:
Rels

Whats less from a townie perspective

Discussing blue claim during night with no blue nk
Or fishing for roles during after cc?

On January 26 2018 17:29 Mocsta wrote:
not a good idea

Game is potentially lylo with a mislynch next cycle

Just because a town holyflare scum reads someone. Doesnt mean they are scum

Frankly i prefer kmatt as a lynch to holyflare

I believe all people present feom day1 to now care too much to be scum. Hf is in this group... being wrong doesnt mean being scummy.

Kmatt has only picked up activity since cop claim which could be a scum teamm all-in play

Further. I havent been convinced that the stuff hf and me picked out aboit kmatt is non scummy

On January 26 2018 17:29 Mocsta wrote:
Kmatt has only picked up activity since cop claim which could be a scum teamm all-in play

On January 26 2018 18:22 Mocsta wrote:
pls tell me this is another game?

On January 26 2018 18:31 Mocsta wrote:
hmmm i can see that working actually

Heck once the cop claim came i took my vote off

Its australia day and im drunk.
Will reevaluaye kmatt and holyflare if i make it to tomorrow

On January 18 2018 17:18 Holyflare wrote:
Cos I'm town.

Also don't take mocsta's enthusiasm as towny. Looks pretty forced and says nothing.

On January 18 2018 17:26 rsoultin wrote:


Explain.

I take it you then have the opposite opinion of me on darth foley?

On January 18 2018 17:38 Holyflare wrote:
Too much in his filter to read.

On January 18 2018 18:18 rsoultin wrote:
Note to self: hf ignored question on darth foley entirely in his general sidestepping.

On January 26 2018 19:47 Holyflare wrote:


Then stop harping on about it, leave your votes on me and talk to kmatt and actually get him to produce some reads.

On January 26 2018 19:56 justanothertownie wrote:

Maybe, but that's really irrelevant. The effort you have shown so far can come from mafia HF regardless of any constraints.

On January 26 2018 19:58 Holyflare wrote:


That didn't happen at all. I voted Damerion when he got counter claimed. You're creating a false narrative.

On January 26 2018 20:04 Holyflare wrote:


No, stop conflating your argument. It's called a mistake about the counter claim. There is nothing more to it. After I realised that it wasn't a counter claim then I asked for his reads and he never provided them so I left my vote there.

You're also not even thinking about how I'd come about voting my team mate for a counter claim when you're saying I'm mafia, who knows that rbs are notified, and would have been rbing btdt for two days straight so knew he was going to claim rb at some point (dumbest fucking rb in the entire planet might I add)! So why would I confuse someone claiming rb that I have rbed as a counter claim if I was mafia????

On January 26 2018 20:36 Mocsta wrote:
the only benefit of this is a vet

Mafia can rb themselves too

Wifom indeed

On January 26 2018 21:06 justanothertownie wrote:

Same. Comments like this make me paranoid though :p

Although I think TL Mafia LXXV was the last time.

On January 26 2018 21:38 justanothertownie wrote:
They shot Kelsier night 1 and DID NOT roleblock him. Noone else claimed the rb.
-> btdt is town unless they didn't use the rb at all

On January 26 2018 21:45 Mocsta wrote:
umm guys.
stop being doo-doo heads

tahts an exact replica of what we discussed

hes either confirmed town, or confirmed scum

yes 100% confirmed.

what isnt is alignment.. i know you are trying, but take a nap please.

On January 26 2018 21:59 Mocsta wrote:
the fact that I think its OK to RB a separate target, to the Kill already supports there is more than one answer

you guys are bickering over your ideologies of how to play the game right

its stupid.

yes teh fakeclaim is unlikley, but its certainly not 100% confirmed.

On January 20 2018 07:26 Rels wrote:

no this doesn't prove anything, HF thinks this is true whatver alignment he is. But he's so focused on Damdred for something so minor. So sure. And then when Damdred comes and says BTDT is town, automatically they're a team. And then this whole pointless debate about him being at work, which goes nowhere. Just a pointless discussion in which he argues just to win the debate, just like he does as scum.

On January 20 2018 07:37 Rels wrote:
Yep I really hate all of these.

HF you're spending so much time defending against this accusation. Nobody else gave a shit.
Then later:

So you're fighting strongly for BTDT/Damdred to be lynched over DF but you have no idea why people scumread him. Makes no sense ot me.
Then later

Cool. Why ? But more importantly, it's super late compared to your strong stances about BTDT / Damdred in the posts above.
And this whole pointless explanation about how you didn't post before because you were working but now you can post is pointless.

On January 20 2018 23:26 Mocsta wrote:
I shall illuminate my top 2 reads in further detail to connect how and more importantly why they are a scum pairing.
Please refer to my 4000 word case below.

Why is DF scum
Read DF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this....
+ Show Spoiler +

Why is HF scum
Read HF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this...
+ Show Spoiler +

Why does it work together
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 26 2018 23:20 Holyflare wrote:
I'm beginning to think you might just actually be mafia you know. This is beyond normal levels of being obtuse.

After repeatedly asking you to do anything else because you're wrong on me you're just repeating the same things. You're also trying to buddy jat super hard.

On January 26 2018 23:26 Holyflare wrote:
Ok well how about you read it with the sentiment that I'm not mafia and then come up with an alternative.

On January 26 2018 23:31 Holyflare wrote:
I also have qualms with what you've posted. You criticise my damdred read repeatedly but also voted him at the end of the day (before switching) for the exact same reason. After he's already dead and you're talking about me you still can't get over how damdred spotted he used "like" a lot and what a coincidence it was.

So why did you say the damdred point was "so minor" to shit on me vut simultaneously believe in it and can't get over it?

Furthermore, me shit fighting about work and pointless discussions for the sake of it does not make me mafia. Much like trying to discuss my thought processes with you isn't pointless. People at the time (rsoultin) were trending towards scum reading me for really bad points and if I see something wrong that discredits me needlessly for an easily provable truth then I will fight it till I'm blue in the face or that person changes their mind. That's just my personality.

On January 26 2018 23:56 Holyflare wrote:
Are you that fucking tunnelled that you think I'm posting nothing but whining? The entire time I've been telling you to do other stuff and pointing out kmatt while you yell absurdities about how good you're being.

On January 27 2018 00:03 Holyflare wrote:
Ok, let's hypothetically say I'm not mafia. Who is mafia now then? Low hanging fruit analogy is bull shit when it's not btdt who already looked fine, it's not likely twat/jat because they looked fine at the beginning of the game (yes, I said they might be mafia this cycle but ignore that) it's probably not rels. So that leaves mocsta, who was my scum read or kmatt who has become my scum read.

I looked into kmatt, I found a lot of inconsistencies and points that were strange and made a case. His filter is really small and full of just posting for literally the sake of posting pretty much +1ing or being contradictory to a main wagon. He has no scum reads, he scum read a town read and that's about it.

On January 27 2018 00:09 Holyflare wrote:
Hard pass. I'm not old hf. Only reason I can post today is because work is slacking but even then I can't do that.

On January 27 2018 00:18 Holyflare wrote:


What are your reasons to town read mderg, mocsta and kmatt?

I feel like you're lying and you don't have reasons to town read some of them but you're so far gone you don't see another conclusion.

On January 27 2018 01:20 beentheredonethat wrote:
the thing is that if Rels is so tunneled on someone, it always ends up a guy being town and then Rels flips town when he gets lynched in lylo for whatever weird reason. So we're gonna lose this game because of this nightkill, a holyflare mislynch into a Rels mislynch.

On January 27 2018 01:26 beentheredonethat wrote:

Yeah that's exactly what I thought

You'd never wtf the roleblocker twice in a row on afk and mod warned btdt.

On January 27 2018 01:27 beentheredonethat wrote:






uh oh

On January 27 2018 01:29 beentheredonethat wrote:


Wait. I am not on that list because he accepts Damerion's claim and lists me as town.

On January 24 2018 15:00 Kmatt wrote:
As much as I dislike HF's post for reasons Mocsta stated above, a Godfather is certainly on the table.

I'd be happy lynching the Twat Slot/JAT today.

BTDT is sketchy too, but I'm still unsure how to interpret his roleblock claim. I know if I was playing as Godfather I could use that excuse if I knew the people who had been roleblocked are dead and I can claim it uncontested. If there's no RB in a (semi-)closed setup then I'd be even bolder to take that potential credit. I'll wait to hear more on him.

On January 27 2018 02:40 beentheredonethat wrote:

I understand me missing in the list of "potential towns" as Kmatt reading me as "confirmed town" which he can only know if he is scum OR if he believes the claim.

On January 24 2018 15:00 Kmatt wrote:
As much as I dislike HF's post for reasons Mocsta stated above, a Godfather is certainly on the table.

I'd be happy lynching the Twat Slot/JAT today.

BTDT is sketchy too, but I'm still unsure how to interpret his roleblock claim. I know if I was playing as Godfather I could use that excuse if I knew the people who had been roleblocked are dead and I can claim it uncontested. If there's no RB in a (semi-)closed setup then I'd be even bolder to take that potential credit. I'll wait to hear more on him.

On January 24 2018 15:06 Kmatt wrote:
Beyond that I'm willing to accept Damerion's claim(s), which puts the remaining potential townies at Mocsta/Rels/HF/Mderg. Rels is on the nice list, as is Mderg. HF is still HF, but he's certainly not my vote today. Mocsta is more null to me. A lot of text but nothing stands out to say "This guy is town". Cop checks are a bit more reliable than my gut, so until we get into a 4-way cop claim-off I'll let him slide.

On January 24 2018 15:10 Kmatt wrote:
Actually looking back over filters, Twat went full AFK, even moreso than me. I'll hold on to my vote to see how JAT looks today. If nothing else I'll ice BTDT.

On January 27 2018 03:14 beentheredonethat wrote:
whoa Rels calm your tits, keep the caps to yourself and don't spam question marks

On January 27 2018 03:16 beentheredonethat wrote:
Rels just killed all of my motivation to continue to play this game. I'm vt and I'll piss off until like sunday or something.

On January 27 2018 03:16 beentheredonethat wrote:
Rels just killed all of my motivation to continue to play this game.

On January 27 2018 03:46 beentheredonethat wrote:

A reaction proving me wrong is perfectly fine.


BUT A REACTION!!!!!! PROVING MEEEEEEE ??????? WRONGGFGGGG GISSSSSS NOOOOTTTT!!!

let's see if you'll notice the subtle difference

On January 27 2018 03:47 beentheredonethat wrote:
ya know I'm acknowledging what you guys are saying yet I still prefer to stick to my conclusion. As I said, jat is entitled to his opinion, so are you. But I'm not blaming you guys for coming to a different conclusion. So unless you're up to calming this down, saying "Hey, okay, actually, we should both calm down, be quiet for an hour and then return and have a constructive discussion", I'll spend my time in a more valuable and fun way. Because this is leading to nothing.

On January 27 2018 03:20 Rels wrote:

And don't put the responsability on me for something you decided to do. Thanks.
You're getting angry because you were wrong. I understand the feeling, just get back in a few hours and everything will be OK.

On January 27 2018 04:20 Holyflare wrote:


Which adds to the whole world theory that kmatt is mafia because he can't even be consistent with his reads through one cycle.

On January 27 2018 04:39 Holyflare wrote:


Not really. He says that btdt is sketchy but then lists out "potential remaining town" and says mocsta is also sketchy but then says that he'll let him pass because of the cop check. It's just choosing names and seeing what sticks. Why does he not let btdt slide for being rbd AND cop checked?

Now that the cop is dead he didn't revisit any of those reads. In fact he didn't even mention them again because he is jumping on the opportunity to follow sentiment and go for me.

On January 18 2018 12:58 darthfoley wrote:
who is this mocsta character and why is he speaking so much?

On January 20 2018 23:26 Mocsta wrote:
I shall illuminate my top 2 reads in further detail to connect how and more importantly why they are a scum pairing.
Please refer to my 4000 word case below.

Why is DF scum
Read DF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this....
+ Show Spoiler +

Why is HF scum
Read HF Filter, and dont tell me you dont see this...
+ Show Spoiler +

Why does it work together
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 18 2018 23:04 mderg wrote:
I really don't like the way Damerion is making his case on Damdred, though.

Using the fact that Damdred left the thread is like the weakest reason to push the read I can imagine.

On January 19 2018 19:51 mderg wrote:

The goal of that list was not to put out anything groundbrakingly new. It's a way to summarize and organize my thoughts.

Everything df said (except the townread on Rels imo) kind of makes sense. But I had pretty much no idea what he said before going through his filter. So his play feels a bit off despite making logically sound arguments.

On January 21 2018 19:14 mderg wrote:
Taking a look at the votes:




I think we can clear btdt because df voting him makes no sense here, if they're both scum. One vote switch would get btdt lynched.
Similarly we can clear rsoultin on the df wagon. That's not telling us anything new, though.
I also think Mocsta is town based on his interactions with df.

So this is where I'm at:




That leaves us with:
TheTwatyEvildoer: Looked pretty townish to me but then dropped off the face of the earth, wouldn't lynch right now, though
Kmatt: Could be scum could be town but how do you honestly read him at this point?
Damerion: Didn't like his case and tunnel on Damdred. Did look somewhat close to his usual town game but with some differences. Would lynch.
Rels: Didn't like him at the start, felt better later on. Switching between two town wagons at the end would be plausible as scum. Could imagine lynching him.
prplhz: No idea how to read him from his posts. Probably not scum together with Rels because I don't think all 3 scum would be on the same wagon.
Holyflare: Felt more like hf but his reads look like how mafia would want to lynch. Would lynch.
mderg: I'm obviously town