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Sure. Go ahead. But I can't force other people to play along with this.
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On January 28 2018 22:14 Holyflare wrote:
What do you think of Mocsta? He seems to always want to be on the right side of what's happening and have his own different opinion and it bugs me. It feels quite unnatural in a way imo.
I remember having a good feeling about him when I read the game. No distinct things I can point to apart from the post rels also mentioned a few times where he posts the pictures. I think this is a really harsh thing to do to your scumbuddy darthfoley. He also definitely wasn't always on the right side of what is happening with the prplhz lynch.
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Also he was always involved and seemed interested in solving the game and keeping a reasonable atmosphere. If we exclude that episode with the btdt rb but I will attribute this to alcohol/special circumstances.
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Why do you think he is mafia? And is he more mafia than let's say rels?
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I don't think he's more mafia over kmatt. I'm just trying to think of alternatives to kmatt and live in those worlds for a bit.
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I don't know what to think about rels. It's a struggle to get anything out of him and he's probably just really super tunnelled.
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I don't like his reasons to town read people and his inability to live in a world where I'm town. Even just for the sake of it but whether that makes him mafia? I dunno. Doubt it. He was also on the Damerion wagon d2 even if it was just a +1.
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Before you get lynched you should definitely summarize your kmatt scumread again. From start to finish. If it keeps being your #1.
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But I have to say Kmatt being mafia feels too easy. And I can't really be bothered thinking about that case since he will probably get lynched at some point anyways. In my experience people like him are lynchbait townies quite often.
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He has less filter length than any of his previous games though.
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Ok, then include that in your case. I obviously have 0 experience playing with him.
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The plan of action and what you should be quizzing next cylce (absolutely lynch me first so rels can stfu):
Kmatt
Day 1
Day 2
Day 3
Conclusion
- His reads - Day 1
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On January 20 2018 01:50 Kmatt wrote:
Real quick, does anyone find Twat to be sketchy at this point? I had him casually marked as town like most people earlier, but he ducked out immediately after asking a question earlier. While I'm in no place to call out AFK what with my new "don't lead a mislynch wagon d1" strat, the fact that he was being townread, then asked someone (Rels' doubt of BTDT, for what it's worth) a question, and bailed feels wrong to me. Being thread is a perfect reason to talk more. Rels even comes back with a substantial answer. Seems pretty scummy to take your towncred and run with it like that.
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On January 20 2018 01:51 Kmatt wrote:
Also I don't see myself voting Damdred today unless he does something seriously incriminating. The way things are headed I'd be okay with a BTDT wagon.
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On January 20 2018 09:00 kitaman27 wrote:
Day One Final Vote Count
Damdred (4): Damerion, Holyflare, TheTwatyEvildoer, Rels, Mocsta, Rels
beentheredonethat (4): rsoultin, KelsierSC, mderg, Rels, darthfoley, prplhz, Rels
darthfoley (3): Damdred, KelsierSC, rsoultin
Holyflare (0): mderg, Mocsta, rsoultin
prplhz (0): Mocsta
Not Voting (2): Kmatt, beentheredonethat
Damdred has been lynched.
On day 1 he makes basically three posts. One of those is calling out Twat for afking despite town reading him "like everybody else". Is this a scum read? No. Who else does he scum read that we can see? Pretty much absolutely nobody. He doesn't like the Damdred wagon "unless he does something seriously incriminating" but doesn't explain why he doesn't like it or anything. Next, he would be okay with a BTDT lynch despite not even referencing anything about that either. If we look back at his last town game (yes, over a year ago but still it represents a mindset) he wasn't okay just going for afk inactive kills, which is exactly what BTDT was.
On December 20 2016 00:37 Kmatt wrote:
By the way have we confirmed that everyone knows the game started? Exo_ posted in here asking about the start time recently but Rels hasn't been here since last Thursday. I'd rather we not have to lynch inactives.
His non-vote just means he wasn't here. It's somewhat irrelevant and very annoying because it gives less information but means nothing. His night one posts are even more ambiguous to who he actually wants to lynch though:
On January 21 2018 01:16 Kmatt wrote:
^Sheeping this guy for the picture alone
This is in response to Mocsta's picture post. If it's in jest then it means nothing and isn't actually a read. If it's not in jest then he is now scum reading both DF and I. So his scum reads become BTDT, DF and HF or just BTDT for (insert unexplained reasons here).
- His reads - Day 2
- We know his scum reads are BTDT, HF and DF or maybe even just BTDT. He only makes two posts the entirety of day 2 (this should have resulted in a modkill as a second offence). Those were:
On January 22 2018 23:42 Kmatt wrote:
I can get behind that. Making sure to vote nice and early today.
#vote prplhz
This was in response to a push by myself on Prplhz that outlined that prplhz gave his vote to rsoultin but then didn't follow her and lynch mafia. A good point, nothing wrong with sheeping. However, the alternative was Damerion who pushed the case on his Damdred town read and who Rsoultin had been talking about non-stop and he doesn't seem to say a word about him. Not once has he acknowledged Damerion as any kind of target whatsoever. I honestly can't believe he made two posts in 72 hours, that is really really poor since they were both one liners and also against the rules of the game.
On January 23 2018 08:50 kitaman27 wrote:
Day Two Vote Count
prplhz (4): rsoultin, Mocsta, beentheredonethat, Kmatt, Holyflare
Damerion (3): Rels, rsoultin, mderg
Not Voting (3): TheTwatyEvildoer, Damerion, prplhz
prplhz is currently set to be lynched.
The deadline is Monday, Jan 22 11:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in .
Notice the vote count here. Damerion doesn't even vote to save himself, prplhz doesn't vote and Twat doesn't vote. If the mafia team is Damerion and Kmatt then they are extremely afk and Kmatt's only job this game is to save his team mate. Which is effectively what he does. Ignore my vote, I cased prplhz a long time ago and just didn't put the vote down and should have been first.
It's interesting because if he wasn't joking about the Mocsta post on night one then he just jumped on a wagon with his scum reads BTDT and HF with absolutely no qualms whatsoever despite the fact Damerion pushed his town read and afkd.
- His reads - Day 3
Day 3 he effectively doubles his filter length when Damerion is up for lynch. He has said absolutely nothing about Damerion the entirety of the game. He hasn't town read him or scum read him. Damerion pushed damdred and did nothing more and Damdred was Kmatt's town read. Look at his vote on day 2 to save Damerion and you see what his goal is, it's to save his team mate.
This is my post about a gf being likely in a scenario where there's a cop and vig (something I thought entirely possible).
On January 24 2018 09:20 Holyflare wrote:
I'm prepped to insinuate godfather because so far only a goon has flipped and vigilante and cop is not balanced against goon/goon/goon so mafia will have a rber/gf/framer somewhere in there.
I'm thinking a rber to counter vig and cop and a gf because it's passive and won't fuck with cop and inordinate amount.
It says that because there's a cop there's likely a gf or framer. Not rocket science to be fair. What does Kmatt say about it?
On January 24 2018 15:00 Kmatt wrote:
As much as I dislike HF's post for reasons Mocsta stated above, a Godfather is certainly on the table.
I'd be happy lynching the Twat Slot/JAT today.
BTDT is sketchy too, but I'm still unsure how to interpret his roleblock claim. I know if I was playing as Godfather I could use that excuse if I knew the people who had been roleblocked are dead and I can claim it uncontested. If there's no RB in a (semi-)closed setup then I'd be even bolder to take that potential credit. I'll wait to hear more on him.
He says he doesn't like my post insinuating there's a godfather in the game but there's almost definitely a godfather in the game???? Not only does it not make sense and it's unnecessarily downgrading my post but it says exactly the same thing!!
Now, that's not all. We have the Damerion claim and remember Kmatt's reads at this time are BTDT, HF and DF (last two maybe not real) so where the fuck does Twat/JAT come into play? It's just another afk lynch like his reason for wanting BTDT (maybe??) and now Twat for afking. Literally nothing more than afk as his reasons.
This is when things start to take a REALLY confusing turn:
On January 24 2018 15:06 Kmatt wrote:
Beyond that I'm willing to accept Damerion's claim(s), which puts the remaining potential townies at Mocsta/Rels/HF/Mderg. Rels is on the nice list, as is Mderg. HF is still HF, but he's certainly not my vote today. Mocsta is more null to me. A lot of text but nothing stands out to say "This guy is town". Cop checks are a bit more reliable than my gut, so until we get into a 4-way cop claim-off I'll let him slide.
He accepts Damerion's claim. He says the remaining townies are therefore Mocsta/Rels/HF/Mderg. Rels is townie to him, Mderg too. Both unexplained reads but we'll go with it. "Hf is still HF but he's certainly not the lynch today". Remember this. Put it into your brains. Absorb it. It's crazy.
Mocsta is null, a lot of text and says nothing but the cop check makes him town. Why on earth does this not apply to BTDT? Both are green checks. He admits there could very likely be a gf in the game but isn't suspicious, doesn't believe and doesn't apply the two situations between Mocsta and BTDT the same at all. Either way, getting over this his new scum list becomes:
BTDT - what reason?
Twat - town read who afkd
Mocsta - let slide because of cop check
Rels - town
Mderg - town
HF - certainly not the lynch
Damerion - is the cop
He returns and posts that Twat is full afk and maybe that was hasty so shouldn't be the lynch until JAT posts more. That makes his only scum read BTDT, still unexplained. HOWEVER WHERE THE SHIT DO I COME FROM NOW?
On January 25 2018 02:36 Kmatt wrote:
I don't like lynching Damerion here without a counterclaim. It may not have been the best plan to spill the beans at the moment, but lynching him wins us no information at this point, and is unlikely to flip red (unless there's a counterclaim. Doc, if you're out there, now would be a good time). Even if he gets suppressed the rest of the game, he still votes with the town and/or eats a nightkill. As it stands BTDT or maybe HF are the better lynches.
PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THIS IF IT'S THE ONLY THING YOU DO. READ THE LAST LINE. MAYBE HF IS A BETTER LYNCH. NOW LOOK AT THE COMPARISON BETWEEN THIS AND HIS LATER LOGIC:
On January 26 2018 09:06 Kmatt wrote:
Does this theory on HF account for why he would bus him so quickly? I mean the whole thread was kind of against him but with how much he's been on me there wasn't even an attempt on a counterwagon.
On January 26 2018 09:17 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2018 09:16 Holyflare wrote:On January 26 2018 09:06 Kmatt wrote:
Does this theory on HF account for why he would bus him so quickly? I mean the whole thread was kind of against him but with how much he's been on me there wasn't even an attempt on a counterwagon. Can you actually elaborate on who you want to lynch? So far all I've got is: Twat/JAT: For being towny and then afking. Mocsta: For saying a lot of words and then doing nothing. Me: ???????? So any kind of elaboration and whys would be great. Why do you even care about my reads? I'm Damerion's godfather partner, remember?
I magically appeared as a lynch candidate for him. I called him Damerion's partner and should be lynched.
On January 26 2018 09:27 Kmatt wrote:
What confuses me here is that your posts up until now were that
A) Damerion is scum
B) I'm buddying him, and therefore also scum
Then Damerion flips red, you get perfect validation of your theory, yet somehow I'm less than 100% scum despite nothing happening to change the above interpretation. The only reason Rels doesn't have me as scum is because he specifically targets you.
He starts being suspicious because I'm not pushing him 100%
On January 26 2018 09:55 Kmatt wrote:No I just can't buy this. Show nested quote +On January 26 2018 09:20 Holyflare wrote:
because if you're not mafia like rels is implying then you'll be next after I die and it would be good to get your reads out in the open you know? I hate hate hate this post. How on Earth does Town!Holyflare back off now of all times? I don't pretend to have memorized meta, but I just can't accept anything but a full game-ending crusade against me at this point. I'll be the first to admit that my game so far is abysmal. I can't play town for shite to begin with, and this is a particularly foul example. You have every reason to doubt me. And you did! Repeatedly! There was a wall of text a few pages back. Town!Holyflare has this game served to him on a silver platter. The only thing that happened between then and now is a red flip that you predicted when I defended him to the end. Suddenly Rels calls the banners and now you doubt my scumminess. I could almost see you going full OMGUS and turning on Rels, but you just alluded to him being town too. The only reason someone could reasonably townread me at this point is PoE (which requires a stronger scumread than me, which you didn't have an hour ago) or pure gut.
He hates that I'm not calling him mafia and auto lynching him!!!
I can't comprehend. I really can't. Why one earth would a townie, who has been linked to a flipped mafia be suspicious of somebody questioning their reads? Let's also break this down further. I certainly was not the lynch candidate at all today according to him. I suddenly appear as maybe a better lynch to the cop as soon as Rels starts posting about me and then suddenly it was townie for me to push him all day and now it's scummy to stop pushing him after the mafia flipped? No. That's the most backwards narrative I have ever seen in my life.
If it was previously townie for me to push him how did I actually appear as a lynch candidate towards the end of the cycle? It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. It's a fabricated read which he is piggybacking off of rels' posts. I am a feigned read completely.
On January 27 2018 05:42 Kmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2018 05:12 Holyflare wrote:
Read this. Absorb it. How on earth does this game make sense in that way? If he is town why has town Holyflare got this game served up on a silver platter? This is backwards thinking in totality. He has gone: Because Town!Holyflare was winning this game on cruise control. You, on the other hand, took the nonsensical logical twist of: Damerion is scum and Kmatt is scum as well >Damerion flips scum Therefore, Kmatt must not be scum
He even acknowledges I was winning the game. Why does this make sense if he is town? It doesn't. If he's town and I'm town then I'm losing the game by going on cruise control and lynching him. It's not a natural thought process at all.
- Conclusion
Kmatt has had a shocker of a game. Read his town game here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/517122-liquidmania-qualifier-1?user=Kmatt where he makes statements and gives reasons for reads, he theorises about stuff and shows a weighing up of ideas to reach a conclusion that is strikingly absent from this two page filter game where he just makes statements with a predetermined conclusion.
His scum read the entire game was literally just BTDT and his town read Twat. Nothing else. He hopped onto Prplhz to save Damerion and had said nothing about Damerion the entire game despite lynching his town read Damdred and being cased by a lot of people. You'd think he'd be interested in that but he wasn't. He doesn't acknowledge it. When we reach day 3 and his partner is up for lynch his true colours come out and he starts revealing information he can't possibly know. He takes a stance to hard defend his partner. He makes posts about reads and then blatantly contradicts them further into the cycle with no new information.
I move from being a most certainly not lynch at the start of the cycle to maybe I should be the lynch at the end of the cycle. Then, when the night comes and I start to question Kmatt he reveals that I was definitely town holyflare before when I was pushing for his lynch. This begs the question then, why was I the best lynch instead of Damerion at that point? It doesn't make sense. He is fully bandwagoning on top of Rels' posts towards me and nothing more. He makes posts towards me that don't make sense. Why would I be mafia when I back off him instead of town? Why would a town holyflare just push the lynch onto Kmatt if he's town and potentially lose the game? He said a town holyflare would push him and WIN the game. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.
His games are strikingly different between here and his other games in the database. I didn't read his one scum game and he only has that one town game I linked which was a year ago but the evidence is still very different. He's not interested in SOLVING the game, he's interested in surviving, pushing a mislynch and bandwagoning on anything to save partners. It's a very mafia filter.
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I have read his mafia filter and it's quite a different style to what he's posting here, and so is his town game.
If I had to make a snap judgement I'd say his filter here doesn't resemble his mafia filter too much which is a bit annoying but there's just so much inconsistency and opportunity that he kind of has to be mafia.
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On December 23 2016 08:04 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +From what I garner the bit that bothered me about SL was his initial inactivity followed by the erratic posting. The bit about Rels was weird to me too. I also didn't like how he hopped on the Exo wagon without explaining his own reason, but since I was pushing that in the first place it's more likely that he just agreed with me.
At the moment though HF sits the worst with me. For a while I had just accepted that this was his posting style and that being overly-aggressive made for better town play. The more I look over his posts though, it seems like he's more focused on getting a rise from people than actually garnering useful information. He takes any questionable statement and overreacts to draw attention. I don't believe anything you write. Nothing is substantiated whatsoever.
I also had this problem with Kmatt in the town game I played with him to be honest.
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Will try and get through Mocsta/rels/mderg/jat
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I really do not see the problem with his "town HF was on cruise control" stuff. He is talking about your point of view where he is mafia and calls it nonsensical that you are backing off despite no changes to his play.
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If I am mafia and he is town what would my point of view be? It would be exactly the same because I wouldn't CARE about his alignment, I'd be trying to just continue pushing and mislynching him.
This is the problem with his analysis. If he is town what benefit would a MAFIA holyflare have of backing off and asking him questions about his stances in the game and perhaps making him reveal his alignment (which would be town to him)???? The benefit is almost zero to me. If I'm mafia and stick to my "slam dunk" case then I just push him and he's a mislynch and that furthers my goal.
The problem I have with it is it's a one way analysis that doesn't factor in any other explanation. What is my town motive to sticking to the read and mislynching him if he's town? It's very backwards thinking to say "I am town. This person has set me up for when Damerion flips mafia but that's not right. My alignment is town and he's going to mislynch me!"
"Oh, now he's decided to question me. My alignment is town and he's questioning me and giving an opportunity. I might not get mislynched if I respond well enough!" "That must make him mafia because he doesn't want to mislynch me!"
Nothing about that makes the slightest bit of sense to me.
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Furthermore, his read progression on me is factually false. It's a fabricated lie he made up.
He went from:
1. "Holyflare is definitely not the lynch today."
to
2. "Holyflare should be the lynch today"
to
3. "I thought Holyflare was town because he was pushing me and was deadset on winning the game by lynching me!"
to
4. "Holyflare is mafia because he's asking me questions and isn't deadset on lynching me."
The problem is that 3 is a blatant fabrication because 2 existed beforehand. So he literally invented that he town read me in 3 to appear like he's rethinking his read and just somehow came to the conclusion in 4. This was enabled by rels just uselessly pushing me and let him blend in yet again.
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EPT
