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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
There's also just the randomness of Vivax's accusation against you during day 1, which goes along with what I said to Sicklucker. And I'm not sure why you're calling me out for not calling you town while saying that Vivax is town because he wouldn't be calling you scum as mafia. But anyway. . . I would like to see some Silverika games. | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
On February 09 2017 07:37 Grackaroni wrote: If you look through the entirety of my filter I think my accusation has been reasonable. Especially the post I made where you point out something that I did that's unlikely to come from mafia and argue that it therefore must come from mafia, and then you point out something Vivax did that's unlikely to come from mafia and argue that it precludes him from being mafia. There's also just the randomness of Vivax's accusation against you during day 1, which goes along with what I said to Sicklucker. And I'm not sure why you're calling me out for not calling you town while saying that Vivax is town because he wouldn't be calling you scum as mafia. But anyway. . . I would like to see some Silverika games. The difference between you and Vivax is that Vivax calls me mafia literally every single game except when I'm mafia. As for the 'unlikely to come from mafia and therefore it must come from mafia', it was more related to the fact that those actions have defined most people's reasons for townreading you including my own. It was more explaining how they can make sense from scum which felt like a more reasonable explanation than I could think of for any of the other people on the mission. | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
1) Silver/Sharkie seem really likely town 2) Therefore, Vivax must be scum 3) But then the votes for the first mission wouldn't make sense 4) Unless the team was both Vivax & Artanisoul, in which case it could be perfectly viable for scum to approve. 1 implies 2. 2 implies 3. 3 implies 4. Now, by the time I get to 4 I think it's reasonable to say that maybe I should just reconsider 1, which is what I'm doing now. You guys are saying that I should think be thinking that Vivax is on a team with Sharkie/Silver. That's possible but it isn't where my logic for Vivax being scum came from in the first place. If I'm considering one of Sharkie/Silver scum (Silver) then I would just re-evaluate my Vivax read entirely. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
On February 09 2017 07:45 RtaniSoul wrote: The difference between you and Vivax is that Vivax calls me mafia literally every single game except when I'm mafia. As for the 'unlikely to come from mafia and therefore it must come from mafia', it was more related to the fact that those actions have defined most people's reasons for townreading you including my own. It was more explaining how they can make sense from scum which felt like a more reasonable explanation than I could think of for any of the other people on the mission. And I don't know why that is quite honestly. Beforehand people were town reading me for my posts and then people leaned into that WIFOM reason to town read me. Now I'm only hearing about that as a reason for why I could be town, while ignoring everything before that. | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
On February 09 2017 07:50 Grackaroni wrote: And for a final explanation, I'm saying this: 1) Silver/Sharkie seem really likely town 2) Therefore, Vivax must be scum 3) But then the votes for the first mission wouldn't make sense 4) Unless the team was both Vivax & Artanisoul, in which case it could be perfectly viable for scum to approve. 1 implies 2. 2 implies 3. 3 implies 4. Now, by the time I get to 4 I think it's reasonable to say that maybe I should just reconsider 1, which is what I'm doing now. You guys are saying that I should think be thinking that Vivax is on a team with Sharkie/Silver. That's possible but it isn't where my logic for Vivax being scum came from in the first place. If I'm considering one of Sharkie/Silver scum (Silver) then I would just re-evaluate my Vivax read entirely. fair (maybe might have already said this in my very first post about your theory and i still want to be called amazing and smart and awesome >>) also i just want to say: pffffffffftttt ^^ cause it's fun and yeah, different people are held to different standards. the other wearying part of mafia @.@ | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
There are plenty of people (you) saying that Vivax wouldn't have chosen not to put himself on the mission as scum. So there isn't much reason to treat the two "unlikely for scum to do" things differently. | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
I probably won't be on tomorrow. | ||
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RtaniSoul
552 Posts
On February 09 2017 07:59 Grackaroni wrote: And I still don't quite get the distinction. There are plenty of people (you) saying that Vivax wouldn't have chosen not to put himself on the mission as scum. So there isn't much reason to treat the two "unlikely for scum to do" things differently. 180ing on a read is something different than letting town decide on the fate of several missions. As for passing the first mission, that's fairly normal. Scum tends to pass the first mission; it's the fact that Sharkie was contested that people believe it's a valid argument to make. The reasons for the actions you'd have taken as a spy are more clear than Vivax, and I don't see Vivax as a flashy scum player. Especially the threatening to put us on the mission instead of Sharkie seems like something that doesn't click with me on that. Do you still believe we're mafia? | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
On February 09 2017 08:03 RtaniSoul wrote: 180ing on a read is something different than letting town decide on the fate of several missions. As for passing the first mission, that's fairly normal. Scum tends to pass the first mission; it's the fact that Sharkie was contested that people believe it's a valid argument to make. The reasons for the actions you'd have taken as a spy are more clear than Vivax, and I don't see Vivax as a flashy scum player. Especially the threatening to put us on the mission instead of Sharkie seems like something that doesn't click with me on that. Do you still believe we're mafia? Not particularly. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
(I could read the thread for the answer... well, I should... I might, if I'm feeling generous) | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
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Silverika
United States231 Posts
He's made a comment he's not gonna say his vote earlier in the game. I'll look this up later and quote it all. I gotta go pick up my daughter. I've also been sick so I'll do my best to filter grack today and look at that resistance game. I'll try to find some scum games of ours too as a hydra. ~SW | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
One, TW - I'm not even on the mission. Two, Silverika - I've said how I was going to vote for most of the missions at this point. I don't want the mission to pass. And I'm fine with people knowing that. I don't really care what you said not to do. I'm pretty sure people can infer how I'm going to vote without me even saying anything. | ||
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Silverika
United States231 Posts
On January 28 2017 03:33 Grackaroni wrote: I'm going to keep my vote a secret. Why make this post at the beginning of the game if you don't give a shit about keeping your votes secret? Glad you don't care to make optimal town play here but I do. Even if it becomes obvious how we are gonna vote, announcing it in the game is never a protown move. Why give info to scum and help them coordinate what to do? ~SW | ||
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Silverika
United States231 Posts
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=64698 http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38207-M-FM-Fringe-Alternate-Universe http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38206-M-FM-Fringe-Prime-Universe http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38195-M-FM-Fringe-Day-1 http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthread.php/38762-S-FM-219-Lazy We were Anxiety Attack in the top one, Moogle in the second one (3 links) And Empathy17 in the third. ~SW | ||
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sharkie
Austria18499 Posts
On February 09 2017 06:40 sicklucker wrote: sharkie and ec* like the rest i kind of expect to vote how they did as either alignment So in what world are ec's votes weird but Super's are expected (*hint* they completely voted the same way the last two missions). I don't care whether someone thinks sicklucker is a resistance member by process of elimination or by his non-caring attitude of the game. For me both him and TW have shown us several times that they neither read our posts nor even pay attention to who was sent to which mission. Even if one or both of them are resistance players and we lose because I refused to put them on a mission I don't care. At this point I'd rather have vivax (who is a spy in my eyes) in my team than one of those two. Also, I am saying if resistance is going to lose the game I will blame SL and TW on the loss. I have never seen someone care so little about a resistance game that they actively refuse to participate in our discussions or even PAY ATTENTION to what is happening in the game. Stop pouting and do something ffs. Also, I don't know how your gaming groups work but each time I play resistance with my friends they completely mix up their playstyle from game to game. I could never say "x is not a spy because that is not how he plays as spy/resistance". Citing old games is like giving your opposing players a fake alibi imo. "Here, look: that is how I usually play resistance -> I could never be a spy". | ||
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Silverika
United States231 Posts
Also, ika and I have been talking about it and we are moving you to the town pike with Rtani Soul. Your posts are just very genuine and have a real new town feel. Deciding between grack and vivax is giving me a migraine. Reading that game Artani Soul linked and Vivax was town in, his tone there and here is very similar as well as his input into the game. I also like some of his analysis this game and I don't see him making such a show of keeping himself off a team he could easily put himself on with no fuss. I just think he's town but it's not as strong as the other two townreads. That game ArtaniSoul linked-I mean sl had 25 page filter and was clearly putting in effort trying to figure out the game, here he just isn't doing much. I just can't get a townread here even though it would make things so much easier if I could. The problem I have with any grack meta is I don't have any. I don't know how he plays as scum. Because there is one spy on the 4 man mission, I'm PoEing it out to him. I don't like his inconsistency with the votes and the way he's hard townread us all game and now says it increasingly likely we are the scum. Oh really? And why is that? You don't know how we play as scum, you don't know how sharkie would either. You just got done saying Vivax is scum not that long ago also after townreading him all game. You got a sudden boner for sharkie after not trusting him all game and I think it's because we've been saying all game you'd blame him if the mission fails. You aren't really getting support for Vivax scum from those who have played with him so now it's our turn even though we've done nothing since your hard townread of us to suddenly make it increasingly likely we are scum. But we are a fairly easy target. After all, we have no meta here and were on the failed mission. Other than that, has he even given a reason? tl/dr-he's not explaining his shifting reads in a way that I can understand or that makes sense Unfortunately, TW and EC are so under the radar I don't know what to make of them. I think EC being super blendy, noncommittal and unable to be read easily is more scum than town. TW has been absent from so much of the thread that it's hard to say they are town for sure at this point. So putting grack as the spy on the mission with two of EC, SL, TW makes the most sense to me. The rest are town. ~SW | ||
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sharkie
Austria18499 Posts
On February 09 2017 16:10 Silverika wrote: Sharkie-we gave those scum games cuz grackeroni asked. That is true. I cannot give you negative points for something Grack had asked you to link. I am just a player who goes into The resistance with a clean plate all the time. I look how players play THIS game and don't think of old games at all. So each time one of you mention that vivax is not the sort of player to do "X" my suspicion of him grows. Because what would be the best play as a spy? Exactly, play like you have never played before. That throws you off completely. I wish I had the assistance of players who have clean slates like me to help analyse vivax. From a neutral point of view everything Grack has said makes complete sense to me and is not the play of a spy. My biggest point in favour of Grack is: he defended me (that I don't care about personally) and accused a completely new combination of spies (rtani + vivax). Why should any spy do that? He could have just joined the cool guys (silver and vivax) into bullying sharkie and rt as spies and just enjoy his status as top resistance player. But he didn't do that! No way any spy would ever do such a play. That is self suicidal. You really expect a seasoned player like Grack to 1) Don't fail the first mission to gain credibility in order to prepare for a bigger con. -> Yes, absolutely. That is very good spy play!! 2) After 1, throw everything into the wind and go defend sharkie and accuse vivax/RT -> No way in hell, not even a n00b player would do that. | ||
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Silverika
United States231 Posts
Can you go over your scumread of him with me again? ~SW | ||
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