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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:21 Trfel wrote: I didn't have an opinion on Tumblewood until I checked his filter more carefully, and then I realized that I was missing some important things. Like what? Be specific. You cited literal none of these "important things" when you voted him. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:22 Eden1892 wrote: Of course not, he has to answer my question first. Then he gets to know why he's mafia Like what? Be specific. You cited literal none of these "important things" when you voted him.  | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
Trfel reminds me of Eden in the last game I played, except Eden's questioning was a lot more substantive imo. I need to go through Trfel's filter again, but I am warming to the idea of him possibly being Mafia. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:26 Trfel wrote: Of course not, he has to answer my question first. Then he gets to know why he's mafia What a cop out. I hate this. I feel obligated not to press you further on this in the event I'm wrong and you're on to something. But if I'm right and you're full of it, this is just giving you time to stall me out and avoid getting lynched. If you're town you need to make a good faith effort to show me you're not full of it with this line of questioning. I read Tumblewood's filter and felt his suspicions of Shapelog were very consistent and understandable (though I disagree with them). This question looks very do-nothing, like a lot of your questions have been this game. And your flip in those posts I cited is really suspicious to me. I'm trying to act in good faith and not screw up your play if you are town. Meet me halfway and give me a reason to believe you're not just hot air with this. | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
On January 27 2016 21:17 _MexicanAlien wrote: Onegu as an experienced veteran seems to really back me up when it comes to scumming Shapelog. Onegu as a townie veteran would probably know better, and not encourage interpreting bad play as scummy. Onegu as a Mafia veteran would have wanted to bandwagon Shapelog. Also, Onegu hardly puts forward any original arguments for Shapelog's guilt, instead he just reposts others'. This would allow him to not seem like scum if Shapelog was lynched and flipped Townie. Could you explain what you mean by experienced veteran vs. townie veteran? Isn't a veteran by definition experienced? I'm not sure I get the point you're trying to make | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:35 Eden1892 wrote: Eden, I'm trying very hard to not direct the thread. It's a newbie game, I feel like the new players should lead it.What a cop out. I hate this. I feel obligated not to press you further on this in the event I'm wrong and you're on to something. But if I'm right and you're full of it, this is just giving you time to stall me out and avoid getting lynched. If you're town you need to make a good faith effort to show me you're not full of it with this line of questioning. I read Tumblewood's filter and felt his suspicions of Shapelog were very consistent and understandable (though I disagree with them). This question looks very do-nothing, like a lot of your questions have been this game. And your flip in those posts I cited is really suspicious to me. I'm trying to act in good faith and not screw up your play if you are town. Meet me halfway and give me a reason to believe you're not just hot air with this. Basically, I don't feel that Tumblewood actually cares about his scumreads. His filter seems to be contributing, but while it is contributing, it doesn't seem like he's scumhunting. He's always scumreading the top suspects, but not talking about them, either, which is probably the biggest example of this. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
Just remove 'experienced' and read it again, it'll make sense. Took me a sec too when you asked. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:45 Trfel wrote: Eden, I'm trying very hard to not direct the thread. It's a newbie game, I feel like the new players should lead it. Basically, I don't feel that Tumblewood actually cares about his scumreads. His filter seems to be contributing, but while it is contributing, it doesn't seem like he's scumhunting. He's always scumreading the top suspects, but not talking about them, either, which is probably the biggest example of this. I'm sympathetic to the idea that you don't want to dominate discussion in a newbie game, but I don't feel your play is emblematic of that concern. It looks more like you're asking questions to ask them -- just reacting to the thread for its own sake instead of having a particular direction or angle that you care about pursuing. If you were just trying not to take over discussion and crowd out the new guys, I think you would probably limit the number of things you attempt to respond to, as if to say "I'll cover this and this, the newbies can handle this line so I'll give them a shot at it". But that's not what happened -- you've asked a lot of people a lot of things and then just not followed through on many of them at all. But ok, let's say that you were doing what you said you were doing. (It'd be hard to have a meaningful conversation otherwise, I suppose...) What did that lead you to conclude about the new guys? Which new players do you feel were more of the "leaders" of the town and why? Who stood out among the newer guys (aside from Tumblewood, which you are already explaining now) as having not done this? I can still sorta buy that you were hanging back more to let the new guys do some work, but you gotta show me some proof that you're still invested. As for Tumblewood... - You say his filter is "contributing but not scumhunting." If you think he's mafia how do you think that he's contributing to the thread? Is meaningful contribution to the thread not the hallmark of town play? - I will allow you not to answer this question if it would blow up your attempt to question Tumblewood too much. But suffice to say that I disagree with you when you say that he's "always scumreading the top suspects but not talking about them." On an (admittedly cursory) read of his filter he seems to be explaining his scumreads to a reasonable extent whenever he's talking about them. Can you please cite examples to the contrary if it won't screw up your questioning too much to elaborate? | ||
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:58 Eden1892 wrote: I have been trying to ask pointed questions to put information in the thread that gives players the ability to solve the game. I have been trying to discuss with players as much as possible, for mutual gain. And I've been trying to make sure things don't get too far off track, which hasn't been much of an issue I feel.I'm sympathetic to the idea that you don't want to dominate discussion in a newbie game, but I don't feel your play is emblematic of that concern. It looks more like you're asking questions to ask them -- just reacting to the thread for its own sake instead of having a particular direction or angle that you care about pursuing. If you were just trying not to take over discussion and crowd out the new guys, I think you would probably limit the number of things you attempt to respond to, as if to say "I'll cover this and this, the newbies can handle this line so I'll give them a shot at it". But that's not what happened -- you've asked a lot of people a lot of things and then just not followed through on many of them at all. But ok, let's say that you were doing what you said you were doing. (It'd be hard to have a meaningful conversation otherwise, I suppose...) What did that lead you to conclude about the new guys? Which new players do you feel were more of the "leaders" of the town and why? Who stood out among the newer guys (aside from Tumblewood, which you are already explaining now) as having not done this? I can still sorta buy that you were hanging back more to let the new guys do some work, but you gotta show me some proof that you're still invested. As for Tumblewood... - You say his filter is "contributing but not scumhunting." If you think he's mafia how do you think that he's contributing to the thread? Is meaningful contribution to the thread not the hallmark of town play? - I will allow you not to answer this question if it would blow up your attempt to question Tumblewood too much. But suffice to say that I disagree with you when you say that he's "always scumreading the top suspects but not talking about them." On an (admittedly cursory) read of his filter he seems to be explaining his scumreads to a reasonable extent whenever he's talking about them. Can you please cite examples to the contrary if it won't screw up your questioning too much to elaborate? I don't want to judge people's abilities for leadership, in addition to that being premature, it serves no purpose. If you don't feel that I'm invested, then whatever, I'll continue to play my game. However, every single one of my questions has a purpose. As for my lazy/inaccurate reads, I make mistakes a lot. I don't have time to check and make sure that all my reads are 100% confident. That's not really something that I could fix without dropping out of school. I guess I'll post my reasoning on Tumblewood, give me a bit. | ||
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Tumblewood
United States3709 Posts
On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote: EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town. Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong. I'm going to assume you meant this question: On January 28 2016 06:26 Trfel wrote: Tumblewood, can you share why you are scumreading Shapelog at this point, please? I don't believe you've mentioned this in a while, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm scumreading Shapelog because he's acted exactly how I would expect a newbie mafia player to act. First, he made direct, offhand allusions to his alignment ("Unless your scum team kills me") that were worded in a way that is very unnatural for a comment like that. More recently, he posted a comment that I found to be odd. On January 27 2016 16:34 Shapelog wrote: Like sure his above posts are good. But they are 2 posts. And one of them is about set up (which thank you btw Eden for taking the time to explain) I don't think that warrants a strong TR. Idk you have played with Eden b/4. But to me it sounds like your trying to buddy/pocket him. Shapelog is just throwing an accusation out (trying to buddy) without much support at all. You can have a town read with few posts, and saying someone's trying to buddy in that situation is really off-putting. He also said many times that he wanted to filter dive certain people or that he wanted to revisit my case on him and never followed up. On January 27 2016 17:04 Shapelog wrote: Eh i let you guys duel. It is 3 am. I am done. For shapelog in da future: Catch up Filter Drive: Onegu Deathfy Kush TW - I want to vist that scum case on me again. Low active people. It seems like he wants to act like he's suspicious of people without actually caring about the cases for or against them. It's been a little separated / disorganized, but he's said a lot of scummy things that people are overlooking. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
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Alur
Denmark3900 Posts
Can you explain or elaborate on why Trfel "looks solid to you"? The post's in your filter that relate to Trfel go like this: On January 28 2016 01:58 nooniansoong wrote: trfel your questions are bad lol Into And. On January 28 2016 08:04 nooniansoong wrote: Trfel looks solid to me. Eden is scum though. I am almost sure of that. Secondly, if you have any amount of conviction for your scumread on me. Is it not in the towns interest that you air your concerns, so that the town can reevaluate me? Like if your read is more than a joke, or a vague sense of paranoia, shouldn't you try to sway town, since I seem to have a moderate impact on the towns direction (which would be quite bad for town if I was mafia). That's gonna be my last post for today. I'm worried that this game might damage my productivity at work tomorrow though. Also hopefully Shapelog will have answered my question by then. | ||
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Eden1892
United States5866 Posts
That's gonna be my last post for today. I'm worried that this game might damage my productivity at work tomorrow though. might damage my productivity might ![[image loading]](http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/hehehehehe_duck.gif) | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
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darthfoley
United States8003 Posts
On January 28 2016 05:56 darthfoley wrote: Okay either you're not reading the thread or you're scum. I didn't change my opinion on you lol. Mixed feelings = null read Alur read i've already explained why I have changed my mind. I literally haven't changed my mind on Onegu at all. I TR him early and he's still on my town lean pile. As I have already explained, I DID NOT town read Eden for his Onegu case. I TR him because of his Shapelog analysis + other reads. + Show Spoiler + On January 28 2016 01:55 darthfoley wrote: 1. I said Onegu read town to me at the time, because when I posted that, he hadn't posted much, but it seemed focused on not talking about pointless bullshit. 2. Surely if I thought Onegu was town, I would discuss it with Eden, which is specifically why I posted: I addressed this very point. It was 2AM and Eden was going to bed soon, so I wanted to wait to address it today. 3. I townread Eden more for his town read of Shapelog rather than his scum read of Onegu. 4. If you had actually read my filter thoroughly, the three previous points would be rather straightforward. I wasn't flip-floppy. I agree that it's WIFOM to talk about your entry post, but I don't have much of a reason to TR you right now. So yea, your post is almost 93% bullshit and I'm getting closer and closer to voting for you. At least you've been more active than Tumblewood Still waiting for Kuragari to respond to this. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Tumblewood's first post here shows that he is scumreading Shapelog, and he says that this is because Shapelog made two posts where he said that he isn't scum. Tumblewood's argument is that because a townie wouldn't do this, then Shapelog is mafia. He also said that he had a scum lean of darthfoley because of two posts where darthfoley says that he is town, and adds that darthfoley has weird wording in a sentence (the explanation of the darthfoley read is here, where he says that this is the explanation for the scum lean he mentioned previously). Why is Shapelog a stronger scumread than darthfoley? He didn't mention anything else about their play other than these comments, which is weird. Also note that Shapelog was the top suspect at this time. Tumbleweed returned later and posted this post with new reads. He says that he's suspicious of Onegu, Shapelog, and Trfel. He also ends up with a null read on darthfoley, saying that he hasn't done anything to give him a read. This is really strange, because he described a scum lean on darthfoley previously, for the only reasoning that he's shared about Shapelog, who is still his scum read. There are lots of things I don't like about this post, I won't go into all of them, but it really gives the impression of trying to fit in. He later says that darthfoley's play has been solid lately, which doesn't match with his earlier statement that darthfoley hadn't done much to be read on. In addition to these read issues, Tumbleweed feels like he's responding to questions and thread sentiment, instead of actually wanting to solve the game. Tumblewood explained his read on Shapelog at my request, you can see this explanation here. Here, he describes why he's continuing to scumread Shapelog. However, you can see that all of the posts he quoted are between his first and second longer posts. Note that in the first post, he discounted Shapelog's "strange" play as non alignment indicative, and in the second, he said that Shapelog was scummy because of his extremely scummy play early on (pre page 16). However, the posts that Tumblewood mentions were all after page 16. This explanation isn't possible. Logically, Tumblewood cannot be scum. It's possible that he's town and messed up somehow, but given his filter as a whole, I think that he is scum. | ||
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Shapelog
United States5185 Posts
I am going to catch up. I see that Alur has questions so I will look at them. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
The last line should read: "Logically, Tumblewood cannot be town. It's possible that he's town and messed up somehow, but given his filter as a whole, I think that he is scum". Anyway, I need to leave for dinner very soon, so if you have any questions, ask them soon. I'll be back later tonight. | ||
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