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On January 28 2016 06:26 PepperMintTea wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 06:13 Tumblewood wrote:On January 28 2016 05:59 PepperMintTea wrote:@Tumblewood I'm having a hard time following this train of thought On January 27 2016 11:30 Tumblewood wrote:
Read over the thread, and these are my reads so far:
Town: (none yet)
Leaning Town: Alur, Trfel
Null: PepperMintTea, nooniansong, Onegu
Leaning Scum: darthfoley, _MexicanAlien
Scum: Shapelog
Trefl leans town and onegu is null then On January 27 2016 12:13 Tumblewood wrote:On January 27 2016 11:48 darthfoley wrote:
Tumblewood, can you explain why you're town reading Trfel? He has four one liners so far. Which of them makes him lean town for you? I remember some slight town lean posts and nothing scummy, so that was enough to put him up there in my memory. Looking through his filter, though, there's not much to put him on one side or the other. If I had to redo that list, I'd swap Onegu and Trfel. So now trefl is neutral but Onegu is likely town and then On January 28 2016 01:31 Tumblewood wrote:
I had a big long post halfway written, but then I went to sleep and everything has changed. So, again, I'm going to make one big long post.
First, about our three main suspects: Onegu, PepperMintTea and Shapelog
Onegu hasn't really done anything aside from his one big post and his arguments defending that post. Everything else is just Onegu being the Newbie Police. I won't quote that post since it's gigantic, but the read on Trfel is good and the rest doesn't say very much. It's hard to townread him for anything he's done this game, so he's a slight scumread.
PepperMintTea hasn't done anything to give me an opinion of him. It looks to me as if people saw one post with sort of flawed logic and then went entirely off of that.
Shapelog's early play (say, pre page 16) was scummy as hell. You guys are all townreading him for reasons that are mostly "Too scummy to be scum", like Eden's post (cropped)
Onegu, regardless of whether he's scum, made a good point on Trfel. Trfel's been asking so many questions but hasn't said much of anything himself. That reads scum to me, because it allows him to advance mafia's agenda without doing anything himself, if that makes sense.
TL;DR
I was gone for a while and now I'm trying to catch up. Shapelog still reads scum to me, Onegu and Trfel also look scum to me, Onegu and Trefl are both scum. I guess I have the hardest time understanding how you came to the conclusion about onegu. You thought he was towny early on based on the above. Then he made a good case about trefl. Yet despite that you have him as scum..alongside trefl. From my perspective, you have people who you read town for doing less towny things , than onegu has done yet you scumread him. it seems strange. It doesn't make sense to make a read on early D1 and then never change it. As information has come out, I've been getting more and more of a feel on people. By the first little tier post, Trfel had done nothing scummy and neither had Onegu. They even looked a little town for helping to get things started. Darthfoley and MexicanAlien appeared scummy to me for the first few pages, but their play has been solid since. The big turning point for me was when Onegu posted that giant stream-of-consciousness post. That was the only big thing he'd posted all game, and most of it lacked his own opinions. The only part where he said anything definitive himself was his read on Trfel (which I agree with, hence Trfel leaning scum in my mind). Onegu and Trfel both look like classic examples of players who are very active but not saying much. Onegu was also really confrontational toward accusations, which seemed odd to me. Could you explain to me what you find town about Onegu's play? I think it would help me out more if you could go into some more detail about your town reads and how you established them. I'm still figuring out Onegu, pending his answer.
My main townreads are Eden1892 and Alur, with a side of darthfoley.
I townread Alur for being the most motivated to find scum. The first post I really liked was this:
On January 27 2016 10:01 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 09:23 nooniansoong wrote:On January 27 2016 08:49 Alur wrote:
2. Slight townread on _MexicanAlien.
He seems to have a genuine interest in solving the game. Didn't know that mafia knows the setup (could be WIFOM I guess, but whatevs).
What could be wifom and why is it wifom? FYI mafia doesn't know the setup but they have a better idea of it because they know each other's roles.
3. Slight mafiaread on Darthfoley
I would've expected him to be more excited about rolling town considering his previous game. His posting also feels a little casual and uninvested at times:
Why is it scummy to be casual? Going forward:Talk about other players. On January 27 2016 07:34 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Is anyone else here seeing a pattern? Not sure what you're referring to, very curious to hear what you've noticed. He already explained it I think. Firstly #2 states: "The mafia will be informed as to which setup is chosen, but the town will not!" So yes, the mafia does know the setup. MexicanAlien posted: Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 07:23 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Yes why talk about blue roles? This could possibly give the scum information. This may or may not help them but we shouldn't unwittingly give them any more To me, this post suggests that MexicanAlien was not aware of the fact that mafia knows the setup. If he was mafia, he would know that mafia knew the setup. I think, it's WIFOM because it could be a gambit to make himself seem town. Regarding being casual: Not necessarily scummy, especially early on day 1. But when I look through his filter he seems too content on just making casual conversation (for my taste), but it's only as strong as any day 1 read can be, which is a caveat that I don't feel the need to post with my every read. I was also hoping for him to defend himself. Regarding the pattern: I don't think he explained it. He talks about a bunch of stuff after #235, but I can't tell if the observations he makes are different/unrelated to the pattern he claims to have seen in #235.
After my initial post, I saw this:
On January 27 2016 23:26 Alur wrote:
One thing before I go afk.
I disagree with people townreading Kuragari, if you look at his filter (which is short, so this is easy to verify), notice how his posts are based on reading into if people have referenced their alignment. Which is not terrible in and of itself, but it was something that Tumblewood introduced originally.
It seems improbable, that a town player who reads up on the entire thread, ends up not really giving any meaningful original reads or opinions, and just piggybacks on Tumblewoods "allignment refence" tool.
On that note, I'll be back this evening.
which reaffirms Alur as town. He's the only one I see in this game making a concerted effort to find scum, besides my other two townreads. I'll be gone for about an hour, stay tuned for my explanation on Eden and darthfoley as town.
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On January 28 2016 07:03 PepperMintTea wrote:
honestly onegu that is a really weak answer
Well that is what you are getting
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Dunno about onegu.
Next level scumread on alur. Don't ask for reasons.
Dunno about not. Sheanout .
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On January 28 2016 07:15 nooniansoong wrote:Dunno about onegu. Next level scumread on alur. Don't ask for reasons. Dunno about not. Sheanout .
"Reads without reasons are useless."
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On January 28 2016 07:17 Kuragari42 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 07:15 nooniansoong wrote:Dunno about onegu. Next level scumread on alur. Don't ask for reasons. Dunno about not. Sheanout . "Reads without reasons are useless."
I agree. Only reason I said it is if I'm I right I can brag about being right d1
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On January 28 2016 07:19 nooniansoong wrote:
I agree. Only reason I said it is if I'm I right I can brag about being right d1
I feel ya, lol. Still would be nice to have reasons.
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On January 28 2016 07:07 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 06:26 PepperMintTea wrote:On January 28 2016 06:13 Tumblewood wrote:On January 28 2016 05:59 PepperMintTea wrote:@Tumblewood I'm having a hard time following this train of thought On January 27 2016 11:30 Tumblewood wrote:
Read over the thread, and these are my reads so far:
Town: (none yet)
Leaning Town: Alur, Trfel
Null: PepperMintTea, nooniansong, Onegu
Leaning Scum: darthfoley, _MexicanAlien
Scum: Shapelog
Trefl leans town and onegu is null then On January 27 2016 12:13 Tumblewood wrote:On January 27 2016 11:48 darthfoley wrote:
Tumblewood, can you explain why you're town reading Trfel? He has four one liners so far. Which of them makes him lean town for you? I remember some slight town lean posts and nothing scummy, so that was enough to put him up there in my memory. Looking through his filter, though, there's not much to put him on one side or the other. If I had to redo that list, I'd swap Onegu and Trfel. So now trefl is neutral but Onegu is likely town and then On January 28 2016 01:31 Tumblewood wrote:
I had a big long post halfway written, but then I went to sleep and everything has changed. So, again, I'm going to make one big long post.
First, about our three main suspects: Onegu, PepperMintTea and Shapelog
Onegu hasn't really done anything aside from his one big post and his arguments defending that post. Everything else is just Onegu being the Newbie Police. I won't quote that post since it's gigantic, but the read on Trfel is good and the rest doesn't say very much. It's hard to townread him for anything he's done this game, so he's a slight scumread.
PepperMintTea hasn't done anything to give me an opinion of him. It looks to me as if people saw one post with sort of flawed logic and then went entirely off of that.
Shapelog's early play (say, pre page 16) was scummy as hell. You guys are all townreading him for reasons that are mostly "Too scummy to be scum", like Eden's post (cropped)
Onegu, regardless of whether he's scum, made a good point on Trfel. Trfel's been asking so many questions but hasn't said much of anything himself. That reads scum to me, because it allows him to advance mafia's agenda without doing anything himself, if that makes sense.
TL;DR
I was gone for a while and now I'm trying to catch up. Shapelog still reads scum to me, Onegu and Trfel also look scum to me, Onegu and Trefl are both scum. I guess I have the hardest time understanding how you came to the conclusion about onegu. You thought he was towny early on based on the above. Then he made a good case about trefl. Yet despite that you have him as scum..alongside trefl. From my perspective, you have people who you read town for doing less towny things , than onegu has done yet you scumread him. it seems strange. It doesn't make sense to make a read on early D1 and then never change it. As information has come out, I've been getting more and more of a feel on people. By the first little tier post, Trfel had done nothing scummy and neither had Onegu. They even looked a little town for helping to get things started. Darthfoley and MexicanAlien appeared scummy to me for the first few pages, but their play has been solid since. The big turning point for me was when Onegu posted that giant stream-of-consciousness post. That was the only big thing he'd posted all game, and most of it lacked his own opinions. The only part where he said anything definitive himself was his read on Trfel (which I agree with, hence Trfel leaning scum in my mind). Onegu and Trfel both look like classic examples of players who are very active but not saying much. Onegu was also really confrontational toward accusations, which seemed odd to me. Could you explain to me what you find town about Onegu's play? I think it would help me out more if you could go into some more detail about your town reads and how you established them. I'm still figuring out Onegu, pending his answer. My main townreads are Eden1892 and Alur, with a side of darthfoley. I townread Alur for being the most motivated to find scum. The first post I really liked was this: Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 10:01 Alur wrote:On January 27 2016 09:23 nooniansoong wrote:On January 27 2016 08:49 Alur wrote:
2. Slight townread on _MexicanAlien.
He seems to have a genuine interest in solving the game. Didn't know that mafia knows the setup (could be WIFOM I guess, but whatevs).
What could be wifom and why is it wifom? FYI mafia doesn't know the setup but they have a better idea of it because they know each other's roles.
3. Slight mafiaread on Darthfoley
I would've expected him to be more excited about rolling town considering his previous game. His posting also feels a little casual and uninvested at times:
Why is it scummy to be casual? Going forward:Talk about other players. On January 27 2016 07:34 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Is anyone else here seeing a pattern? Not sure what you're referring to, very curious to hear what you've noticed. He already explained it I think. Firstly #2 states: "The mafia will be informed as to which setup is chosen, but the town will not!" So yes, the mafia does know the setup. MexicanAlien posted: On January 27 2016 07:23 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Yes why talk about blue roles? This could possibly give the scum information. This may or may not help them but we shouldn't unwittingly give them any more To me, this post suggests that MexicanAlien was not aware of the fact that mafia knows the setup. If he was mafia, he would know that mafia knew the setup. I think, it's WIFOM because it could be a gambit to make himself seem town. Regarding being casual: Not necessarily scummy, especially early on day 1. But when I look through his filter he seems too content on just making casual conversation (for my taste), but it's only as strong as any day 1 read can be, which is a caveat that I don't feel the need to post with my every read. I was also hoping for him to defend himself. Regarding the pattern: I don't think he explained it. He talks about a bunch of stuff after #235, but I can't tell if the observations he makes are different/unrelated to the pattern he claims to have seen in #235. After my initial post, I saw this: Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 23:26 Alur wrote:
One thing before I go afk.
I disagree with people townreading Kuragari, if you look at his filter (which is short, so this is easy to verify), notice how his posts are based on reading into if people have referenced their alignment. Which is not terrible in and of itself, but it was something that Tumblewood introduced originally.
It seems improbable, that a town player who reads up on the entire thread, ends up not really giving any meaningful original reads or opinions, and just piggybacks on Tumblewoods "allignment refence" tool.
On that note, I'll be back this evening. which reaffirms Alur as town. He's the only one I see in this game making a concerted effort to find scum, besides my other two townreads. I'll be gone for about an hour, stay tuned for my explanation on Eden and darthfoley as town.
Ok can you go through the big post by Onegu and tell me what it is you don't like about it, specifically the lack of opinions
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Meh I lied. Got more Magic tonight and I want to spend my time before I go to that tuning my deck. Probably shouldn't have signed up for a mafia game right as the new season started up. I will try to catch up tonight and at least sheep the people who look like they know what they're doing.
I think my plan right now is to lynch Trfel instead of Onegu. I think my earlier arguments about Onegu were reasonable, and I'm not all that comfortable giving him a pass right now (although I reserve the right to do a complete 180 on that opinion if Trfel flips scum, as I think that pairing is next to impossible), but he's completely right about Trfel's earlier questioning, and there's also this sequence of posts from him in the last ~2 hours:
On January 28 2016 05:48 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 05:40 PepperMintTea wrote:
Trefl I would be interested to get your read/thoughts on Tumblewood I don't have a read on Tumblewood, to be honest. The only thing that stands out to me is that he seems to be very careful about his posts. A lot of people seem to be suspecting Tumblewood, can someone please remind me why this is?
On January 28 2016 06:26 Trfel wrote:
Tumblewood, can you share why you are scumreading Shapelog at this point, please? I don't believe you've mentioned this in a while, correct me if I'm wrong.
On January 28 2016 06:48 Trfel wrote:No, no, no..... ##unvote
##vote TumblewoodWas going to wait for him to respond, but meh  Kinda embarrassing to have a bunch of newbies catch scum and not me, but it is what it is XD
Trfel please explain how you went from "not having a read on Tumblewood," to asking him a question clarifying a reason for his scumread, to scumreading him, all in the span of exactly one hour, and with one off-subject post from Tumblewood in-between.
##UNVOTE: Onegu
##VOTE: Trfel
I really like the atmosphere of the thread right now. Lots of people seem pretty involved in the game and are being very proactive in pursuing their leads. I'll let you guys chew on this argument and see what you come up with.
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Vote count:
Onegu (1): Eden1892, Shapelog, nooniansoong, Trfel
PepperMintTea (0): nooniansoong, Shapelog
Kuragari42 (2): Alur, darthfoley
Tumblewood (1): Trfel
Trfel (1): Eden1892
Not voting (8): PepperMintTea, Tumblewood, JesusIncarnate, Kuragari42, Ikidomari, Onegu, _MexicanAlien, nooniansoong
Currently, Kuragari42 is set to be lynched.
Deadline is Thursday, Jan 28 8:59pm GMT (GMT+00:00) (in ).
Voting is mandatory!
If there are errors, please let us know.
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Trfel looks solid to me. Eden is scum though. I am almost sure of that.
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On January 28 2016 08:04 nooniansoong wrote:
Trfel looks solid to me. Eden is scum though. I am almost sure of that. Why?
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EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town.
Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong.
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Sorry got called away urgently.
Tomorrow I'm going to vote one of four people.
JesusIncarnate, Onegu, Tumblewood, Trfel
I'm too tired to reason it out tonight, but tomorrow morning before work I will explain
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On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote:
EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town.
Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong.
Why did you vote for him then...
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On January 28 2016 08:08 nooniansoong wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote:
EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town.
Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong. Why did you vote for him then... Uh, when I said "town", I meant to say "scum" 
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the only purpose giving reasons would be to help clear myself as town.
eden is not gonna get lynched today.
i dont want to give him tips for how to look more townie.
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On January 28 2016 08:07 Trfel wrote:
EBWOP: Why is Eden1892 scum? I don't care about why I'm town.
Also, I really do think that Tumblewood is town, but I would really appreciate him answering my question, since I could be wrong.
Where did that come from? You said yourself that you "didn't have an opinion on him" a couple of hours ago.
Why do you think he's mafia and why did you say you didn't have an opinion about him? You weren't asking him a question at the time, so it's clear that you weren't saying it to set some kind of a trap for him.
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On January 28 2016 08:11 nooniansoong wrote:
the only purpose giving reasons would be to help clear myself as town.
eden is not gonna get lynched today.
i dont want to give him tips for how to look more townie.
you are too funny with these "i called it d1" reads. If I see you bragging about any of these other day 1 reads in the postgame I'm going to remind you of this.
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I didn't have an opinion on Tumblewood until I checked his filter more carefully, and then I realized that I was missing some important things.
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EPT
