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On January 28 2016 04:44 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 03:10 Alur wrote:On January 28 2016 02:42 Trfel wrote:Fine. Next time, please don't assume that you know everything. On January 27 2016 09:23 nooniansoong wrote:On January 27 2016 08:49 Alur wrote:
2. Slight townread on _MexicanAlien.
He seems to have a genuine interest in solving the game. Didn't know that mafia knows the setup (could be WIFOM I guess, but whatevs).
What could be wifom and why is it wifom? FYI mafia doesn't know the setup but they have a better idea of it because they know each other's roles. On January 27 2016 10:01 Alur wrote:On January 27 2016 09:23 nooniansoong wrote:On January 27 2016 08:49 Alur wrote:
2. Slight townread on _MexicanAlien.
He seems to have a genuine interest in solving the game. Didn't know that mafia knows the setup (could be WIFOM I guess, but whatevs).
What could be wifom and why is it wifom? FYI mafia doesn't know the setup but they have a better idea of it because they know each other's roles.
3. Slight mafiaread on Darthfoley
I would've expected him to be more excited about rolling town considering his previous game. His posting also feels a little casual and uninvested at times:
Why is it scummy to be casual? Going forward:Talk about other players. On January 27 2016 07:34 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Is anyone else here seeing a pattern? Not sure what you're referring to, very curious to hear what you've noticed. He already explained it I think. Firstly #2 states: "The mafia will be informed as to which setup is chosen, but the town will not!" So yes, the mafia does know the setup. MexicanAlien posted: On January 27 2016 07:23 _MexicanAlien wrote:
Yes why talk about blue roles? This could possibly give the scum information. This may or may not help them but we shouldn't unwittingly give them any more To me, this post suggests that MexicanAlien was not aware of the fact that mafia knows the setup. If he was mafia, he would know that mafia knew the setup. I think, it's WIFOM because it could be a gambit to make himself seem town. Regarding being casual: Not necessarily scummy, especially early on day 1. But when I look through his filter he seems too content on just making casual conversation (for my taste), but it's only as strong as any day 1 read can be, which is a caveat that I don't feel the need to post with my every read. I was also hoping for him to defend himself. Regarding the pattern: I don't think he explained it. He talks about a bunch of stuff after #235, but I can't tell if the observations he makes are different/unrelated to the pattern he claims to have seen in #235. On January 27 2016 10:10 nooniansoong wrote:
alur yeah that point about MA makes sense. What was nooniansoong trying to say by the last quote? Alur's conclusion about _MexicanAlien wasn't very clear, because when he explained it, he said that he thinks it's WIFOM, and WIFOM isn't alignment indicative. It seems that Alur feels that _MexicanAlien is town for reasons that are partially WIFOM, but it's not completely clear. Furthermore, what is nooniansoong saying when he says that the point makes sense? Does this mean that he understands it, or agrees with it? The two are very different things. It's okay if you find my conclusion unclear, you are of course free to ask me to elaborate on this. But I only really made one "point" about MA. So I still can't see what other point about MA (coming from me) you might think noon thought "made sense". I honestly just don't understand the world where you paid attention to events that had unfolded up until then, and still asked the first part of that question. Does anyone else agree with my sentiment? I'm asking because maybe I only think the discussion, and the preceding events were easy to follow because I took part in them. Have you ever made a knot a blanket? Basically, you need to tie a large number of knots between cloth cut into strips. But if you mess up and tie cloth to the wrong cloth on the opposite side, you end up with an extra strip of cloth at the end, and you have to go back and fix it. How far back do you go? Just a bit back? No, you go back until you are sure it is right, to make sure you fix the problem. Same thing here. I was questioning an interpretation issue, and I started by going as far back as possible to clarify the basis. Because if the basis is at all unclear, then nothing else matters, no matter how hard you try to make things match.
That makes sense. But to me the natural way to phrase that question is "What do you think Alur meant by X". "Which point are you referring to" insinuates that I made several points on the matter, I also think it leads to less interesting answers, because it can be answered by quoting me.
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I wish I could do like last game and ignore entire pages of the game and get away with it.
I'll catch up from the start in a couple hours. There's an awful lot of directionless posting though. Chief offender seemed to be Trfel (which is why I liked Onegu's confident statement that Trfel is scum) but he's not alone. Peoe please think through a damn point and make sure it's relevant to finding mafia before you post. This site is replete with players who vomit every thought they have into the thread regardless of how useful it is, don't be like that. Thanks.
More substantive stuff in a while.
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I have a couple of hours so going to catch up and give any useful thoughts
I posted questions for Onegu and JesusIncarnate, if you get the chance to answer I would really appreciate it.
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Alur, I think I see what you're saying, but I generally try to leave things open ended go avoid putting words in people's moutjs. It's useful to me to see how other people describe things.
For the record, I disagree with Eden's post above. After talking with several people I think that in the current TL mafia environment, it is best to be involved with many things so that you can more easily have meaningful conversations with people.
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On January 28 2016 05:06 Trfel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 04:58 Alur wrote:On January 28 2016 04:33 Trfel wrote:
Alur, why are you scumreading Kuragari42? His initial series of posts suffered from being quite unoriginal, and his last set of posts throw flak onto Darthfoley for changing his opinions on things - and while that did occur, he was once again not the first one to bring it up. He also only stated he was "semi-suspicious" after Darth had thrown suspicion on him. But he's promised us a big post, so I'm not gonna lynch before he's had his word. Either way, I find it improbable that Darth and Kuragari are the same allignment. On a related note, Onegu does seem a little scummy to me (he very much deals in absolutes, I don't see why he'd be so standoffish as town, but once again him being rude town isn't impossible). And like Darth and Kuragi I don't see you being on a scumteam with Onegu. It seems to me like your reasons for scumreading Kuragari42 are based on "these things don't show that he is town" instead of "these things shoe that he is scum". Is this true? Did you look at the way that Onegu has acted towards Shapelog?
About Kuragari: I think lack of original thought, and primarily relying on already existing tendencies is mafia indicative. His posts don't feel like they're coming from a town perspective (to me). However, his blunt admittance to the fact that he's bad at pushing original agendas could be town indicative. So I grant you that we can't rule out a townie without direction.
I'll look into Onegu's interactions with Shapelog, sec.
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On January 28 2016 05:21 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 05:06 Trfel wrote:On January 28 2016 04:58 Alur wrote:On January 28 2016 04:33 Trfel wrote:
Alur, why are you scumreading Kuragari42? His initial series of posts suffered from being quite unoriginal, and his last set of posts throw flak onto Darthfoley for changing his opinions on things - and while that did occur, he was once again not the first one to bring it up. He also only stated he was "semi-suspicious" after Darth had thrown suspicion on him. But he's promised us a big post, so I'm not gonna lynch before he's had his word. Either way, I find it improbable that Darth and Kuragari are the same allignment. On a related note, Onegu does seem a little scummy to me (he very much deals in absolutes, I don't see why he'd be so standoffish as town, but once again him being rude town isn't impossible). And like Darth and Kuragi I don't see you being on a scumteam with Onegu. It seems to me like your reasons for scumreading Kuragari42 are based on "these things don't show that he is town" instead of "these things shoe that he is scum". Is this true? Did you look at the way that Onegu has acted towards Shapelog? About Kuragari: I think lack of original thought, and primarily relying on already existing tendencies is mafia indicative. His posts don't feel like they're coming from a town perspective (to me). However, his blunt admittance to the fact that he's bad at pushing original agendas could be town indicative. So I grant you that we can't rule out a townie without direction. I'll look into Onegu's interactions with Shapelog, sec. Thanks, I think I understand what you're saying. Perhaps my early townread on him was stronger than it should have been, I'm not as sure about him any more.
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On January 28 2016 02:26 Kuragari42 wrote:
@PMT Can I get more insight into your darthy read? I find his posts semi-suspicious yet you seem to highly town read him.
I gave a few things that led me to have him as town early.
Since then I have liked his interaction with Alar, his progression with that read has been similar to mine. starting off scummy and turning more town as the game has gone on.
He's being active and asking questions.
You referenced that he "changes his opinion for no reason" but I haven't found that to be the case , darth is my top town.
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@darth You changed on me, Alur, and Onegu. Imo it's not the substantial reads that matter the most, it's the slight reads.
You also agreed with/praised Eden without reading Onegu's filter. How were you supposed to know that Eden's read wasn't just an attempt to throw suspicion on an experienced player?
You used meta for your TR on Eden when you said it would be a smart move for mafia to start setting up meta shit.
Those combined with your alignment stressing are what made me find you somewhat suspicious.
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Trefl I would be interested to get your read/thoughts on Tumblewood
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I've looked at how Onegu acted towards Shapelog.
To summarize:
Onegu is critical of shapelogs "future towntell" on noon.
He also dislikes shapelogs spammy and/or "bad" posts.
Proceeds to null read him.
Anything I am missing Trfel? What conclusion should I draw here? I agree with a lot of what Onegu is saying, and I'm still having trouble placing Shapelog in either of the two alignments myself.
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Okay I read through Onegu's filter and I don't buy the lynch train on him right now. I disagree with Eden's reasoning
1) I agree that I am surprised that he doesn't town read Shapelog, but he didn't bandwagon him either so I tend to believe that he's honestly reading him null at this point, and would rather focus on other people more likely to be scum.
2) I can see why a veteran player wouldn't want to explain stuff to noobs. After all, he could be explaining stuff to potential mafia. Basically the same reason Shapelog shouldn't have talked about his Kush meta. Plus, us noobs have coaches so I can understand why a veteran cba to explain trivial stuff like don't talk about blue roles.
I don't think Onegu is mafia and I think it's a mistake to lynch him D1. I agree with Onegu that Tumblewood is perhaps the most scummy person to be somewhat active so far. Right now i'm considering voting Tumblewood or Kuragari.
(For the record so Kuragari doesn't try to argue something stupid about me changing reads, I still heavily town read Eden)
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On January 28 2016 05:38 Kuragari42 wrote:
@darth You changed on me, Alur, and Onegu. Imo it's not the substantial reads that matter the most, it's the slight reads.
You also agreed with/praised Eden without reading Onegu's filter. How were you supposed to know that Eden's read wasn't just an attempt to throw suspicion on an experienced player?
You used meta for your TR on Eden when you said it would be a smart move for mafia to start setting up meta shit.
Those combined with your alignment stressing are what made me find you somewhat suspicious.
Isn't changing a slight read more expected than changing a substantial one. clues in the name
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On January 28 2016 05:40 PepperMintTea wrote:
Trefl I would be interested to get your read/thoughts on Tumblewood I don't have a read on Tumblewood, to be honest. The only thing that stands out to me is that he seems to be very careful about his posts.
A lot of people seem to be suspecting Tumblewood, can someone please remind me why this is?
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just to add on to the above, apologies
why is changing the read a bad thing? Can you give an example where he changed his opinion for no reason?
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On January 28 2016 05:38 Kuragari42 wrote:
@darth You changed on me, Alur, and Onegu. Imo it's not the substantial reads that matter the most, it's the slight reads.
You also agreed with/praised Eden without reading Onegu's filter. How were you supposed to know that Eden's read wasn't just an attempt to throw suspicion on an experienced player?
You used meta for your TR on Eden when you said it would be a smart move for mafia to start setting up meta shit.
Those combined with your alignment stressing are what made me find you somewhat suspicious.
Okay either you're not reading the thread or you're scum. I didn't change my opinion on you lol.
On January 27 2016 14:42 darthfoley wrote:
I don't have strong feelings yet one way or the other. I like that he posted about how I did the same thing as Shapelog, but wasn't getting scrutiny for it. Seems like a town thing to do, rather than pile on the already made target.
Although I think Shapelog has been way more reliant on the "oops i'm noob" posts compared to me, so i'm a little puzzled why those posts wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb, but mine would. Not sure I like the "he's a troll so I have no read on him, even though he has the longest filter so far" argument.
Mixed feelings
Mixed feelings = null read
Alur read i've already explained why I have changed my mind.
I literally haven't changed my mind on Onegu at all. I TR him early and he's still on my town lean pile.
As I have already explained, I DID NOT town read Eden for his Onegu case. I TR him because of his Shapelog analysis + other reads.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 28 2016 01:55 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 22:39 Alur wrote:Oh and darth, you seem more invested now, so that's definitely something. But this series of events seems strange to me: On January 27 2016 12:16 darthfoley wrote:
I would agree that Onegu reads town for me so far. (This was in reply to Tumblewood when he upgraded Onegu to slight townread, and downgraded Trfel to null) Then Eden presents Onegu as his top suspect. Largely based on the same material that you townread Onegu on. Then you go on to say: On January 27 2016 16:26 darthfoley wrote:
Yea I really like these posts from Eden.
He's probably my strongest TR so far. Surely if you thought Onegu was town, you'd discuss the matter with Eden rather than just lauding his post. I for one think it's entirely plausible that Onegu is just asshole town. You look a little flip-floppy here. 1. I said Onegu read town to me at the time, because when I posted that, he hadn't posted much, but it seemed focused on not talking about pointless bullshit. 2. Surely if I thought Onegu was town, I would discuss it with Eden, which is specifically why I posted: Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 16:43 darthfoley wrote:
Oh FYI, I haven't read through Onegu's filter so I don't know about Eden's scum read yet. I addressed this very point. It was 2AM and Eden was going to bed soon, so I wanted to wait to address it today. 3. I townread Eden more for his town read of Shapelog rather than his scum read of Onegu. Show nested quote +Eden, i've been trying to make exactly the point you just made about Shapelog. The scum Kush meta read thing just makes no sense. I also liked Kush's interaction with Pepperminttea. He is playing a lot more substantively this game imo 4. If you had actually read my filter thoroughly, the three previous points would be rather straightforward. I wasn't flip-floppy. I agree that it's WIFOM to talk about your entry post, but I don't have much of a reason to TR you right now.
So yea, your post is almost 93% bullshit and I'm getting closer and closer to voting for you. At least you've been more active than Tumblewood
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@Tumblewood
I'm having a hard time following this train of thought
On January 27 2016 11:30 Tumblewood wrote:
Read over the thread, and these are my reads so far:
Town: (none yet)
Leaning Town: Alur, Trfel
Null: PepperMintTea, nooniansong, Onegu
Leaning Scum: darthfoley, _MexicanAlien
Scum: Shapelog
Trefl leans town and onegu is null
then
On January 27 2016 12:13 Tumblewood wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2016 11:48 darthfoley wrote:
Tumblewood, can you explain why you're town reading Trfel? He has four one liners so far. Which of them makes him lean town for you? I remember some slight town lean posts and nothing scummy, so that was enough to put him up there in my memory. Looking through his filter, though, there's not much to put him on one side or the other. If I had to redo that list, I'd swap Onegu and Trfel.
So now trefl is neutral but Onegu is likely town
and then
On January 28 2016 01:31 Tumblewood wrote:
I had a big long post halfway written, but then I went to sleep and everything has changed. So, again, I'm going to make one big long post.
First, about our three main suspects: Onegu, PepperMintTea and Shapelog
Onegu hasn't really done anything aside from his one big post and his arguments defending that post. Everything else is just Onegu being the Newbie Police. I won't quote that post since it's gigantic, but the read on Trfel is good and the rest doesn't say very much. It's hard to townread him for anything he's done this game, so he's a slight scumread.
PepperMintTea hasn't done anything to give me an opinion of him. It looks to me as if people saw one post with sort of flawed logic and then went entirely off of that.
Shapelog's early play (say, pre page 16) was scummy as hell. You guys are all townreading him for reasons that are mostly "Too scummy to be scum", like Eden's post (cropped)
Onegu, regardless of whether he's scum, made a good point on Trfel. Trfel's been asking so many questions but hasn't said much of anything himself. That reads scum to me, because it allows him to advance mafia's agenda without doing anything himself, if that makes sense.
TL;DR
I was gone for a while and now I'm trying to catch up. Shapelog still reads scum to me, Onegu and Trfel also look scum to me,
Onegu and Trefl are both scum.
I guess I have the hardest time understanding how you came to the conclusion about onegu. You thought he was towny early on based on the above. Then he made a good case about trefl. Yet despite that you have him as scum..alongside trefl.
From my perspective, you have people who you read town for doing less towny things , than onegu has done yet you scumread him.
it seems strange.
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Pepperminttea is now in my town list
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On January 28 2016 06:01 darthfoley wrote:
Pepperminttea is now in my town list
I concur. That is a very good point about tumblewood.
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On January 28 2016 04:28 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2016 02:08 Shapelog wrote:You woke me up. also i fliped because I didn't say the quoted phase  Idc if i have cred, and why should i care. Unless I am getting mislynched there isn't no need to please people. I rather post reads and do shit. On January 28 2016 02:01 darthfoley wrote:On January 28 2016 01:41 Shapelog wrote:On January 28 2016 01:35 _MexicanAlien wrote:On January 28 2016 01:21 PepperMintTea wrote:I was asked the same question more than once and that is the general form. On January 27 2016 09:17 nooniansoong wrote:
Why would townies be nervous? On January 27 2016 13:08 _MexicanAlien wrote:
For PepperMintTea:
You said you think that Shapelog seemed "overexcited or nervous". If he was in fact town, why would he be nervous? He should be put off by accusations/scum observations. Also, what about being townie make him overexcited?
I can see how rolling mafia would make a noob overexcited or nervous. Considering I read shapelog as town and these are the questions I was asked , my "rephrasing of the question" is in fact not interesting. It appears you have not understood what I said and I apologise for that. Let me simplify things for you. I don't know the exact reason behind ShapeLog being nervous or over excited. There could be many reasons, I gave a few. However I do think he came across as nervous or over excited, that is my opinion. As a result of this it caused his haphazardous posting. In my opinion Haphazardous posting of that form typically comes from town. hence my conclusion. If you don't understand that then I feel sorry for you. It's Occam's razor. The best reason for the way he is acting is that he is Mafia. And the most plausible reason for you excluding this very obvious solution is that you are Mafia too. Yeah I am totally mafia with PepperMintTea. Totally because how I was the first person to make a mini case about her and i will totally push my scum mate into the lynch candidates (Kush/noon did talk about it, but he just asked questions and voted) Yeah Totally Brah. No offesne brah, but if I were your mafia teammate I would probably ask you to think up a case against me, simply because it probably wouldn't stick. Similar to what MexicanAlien said. But Brah would you let me push you onto the radar to the townies? You say you don't care about towncred. But it's also important for townies to actually read as town, since it makes it easier for the rest of the town to mafia.My main scumreads are Trfel and Kuragari42 at the moment. I'm not sure what to think of Shapelog, but would also have expected him to calm down had he been town. My problem is that I'm leaning scum on too many people right now. I'd very much like Jesus to elaborate on his reads. I'd also very much like Eden (who I'm leaning towards being town) to elaborate on the current state of his Onegu read.
Bumping question in case you missed it Shapelog. Do you really not care about towncred? Seems like an apathetic thing to say if you're town. If people are suspicious of you, and you're town, the town is wasting it's time and energy.
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Gotta point out that our resident Aussie and JesusIncarnante have still been MIA. Need to hear more from them...
Right now the only people I'm comfortable voting for are Tumblewood and Kuragari
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EPT
