[T][M] Resistance V - Section 31

On October 28 2015 19:12 Fidei86 wrote:
Slight spoiler, but there will be no fourth party recruiters in this game, Artanis. Just so you know
<3

On October 28 2015 22:44 Fidei86 wrote:
@Xatalos I'd like to start as soon as we get nine, but please say if you need a short deferral and we'll work something out in the thread. I want to be fair to you, but also to everyone else who has signed up and may want it to start sooner rather than later.

@Artanis Come back!

@EveryoneElse I still need one or two co-hosts, please. I will repay you in Internet gold, I promise.

On October 29 2015 00:06 Fidei86 wrote:

In what way?

On October 29 2015 00:27 Fidei86 wrote:

You're only gonna find out by playing :-)

On an unrelated note, obs are very welcome (I already have the QTs set up).

On October 29 2015 00:41 Half the Sky wrote:
Play Lex

Please

I miss playing with you

On November 02 2015 03:18 Fidei86 wrote:
okay, rayn confirmed

On November 02 2015 05:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:

yeah i don't really understand why i have to be here before the game start when i know when the game starts..
but whatever.

On November 02 2015 17:57 Rels wrote:

Ready to hear stuff from you anytime.

On November 03 2015 01:17 Rels wrote:

In which team ? rayn could be town so I'm OK with him in a team; I would prefer you / Xata / me though.

On November 03 2015 01:34 Rels wrote:

You fully support Xata / Xata / Rels ? Yeah, good team.

On November 03 2015 01:36 Half the Sky wrote:


If you could find a way to bleed town in the next 3-4 hours it would greatly help me. Xx

On November 03 2015 01:40 Half the Sky wrote:


Fair enough. Don't work too hard. Or at least I hope the tail end for you is the sport part.

On November 03 2015 01:43 Rels wrote:
Alright leaving work.
HTS, I won't vote a team you or Superbia are part of atm. Obviously that could change between now or deadline. I'm OK with Xata / kita / rayn / me.

On November 03 2015 01:50 Rels wrote:

I liked kita's posts on Superbia. What do you think of them ?
I mean, if you even read the whole thread.

On November 03 2015 01:51 Half the Sky wrote:


Where do you stand on people in general?

On November 03 2015 02:00 kitaman27 wrote:


Which of my posts led you to the conclusion that I'm scummy if you didn't happen to read that one?

On November 03 2015 01:52 Xatalos wrote:


Do you really always play music when you practice capoeira? There were sometimes capoeira events next to us when we trained karate and it was always so loud >.>

More seriously though, what do you think of HtS's proposed team? I think it looks somewhat decent... Well, not as sure about Superbia yet, but rayn and HtS could well be town.

On November 03 2015 02:04 kitaman27 wrote:


What makes you say shockeyy is trying to nail Rels? There was a clear swap in opinion there without much explanation. I was about to quote similar posts myself since it wasn't clear where the switch up happened. It seems more to me like he is trying to follow Rels thought process, rather than crucifying him for a change in opinion.

On November 03 2015 02:29 kitaman27 wrote:


I didn't say that, nor do I mind the town read on rayn from Rels. I said that it makes sense to try to understand why someone changes their opinion if it is not clear to follow and then try to determine whether or not the explanation is valid.

On November 03 2015 06:52 Half the Sky wrote:


Lex, please tell me you have something of substance to say. Or will soon, at least by the time I get home.

On November 03 2015 06:57 Half the Sky wrote:


....

Right now there's much debate over Superbia/rayn/Xata - that corner of things. Shockey's been back and forth on a few things. Does nothing jump out to you? Or anything that could change your reads?

I just updated my noms too. What say you?

On November 03 2015 07:15 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright for everyone's sheer amusement, Lex, if you are here and reading this let's play a round of Final Jeopardy.

You know you want to.

The category is Kita.

The following questions will be about Kita's gameplay and your reads on him and myself.

The questions are: What is your read on Kita after his latest series of posts? What is your read on myself after nominating him and/or my listing of who I feel is of the resistance (town)?

You have two minutes to answer. You must submit your wager along with your answer.

The timer starts now.

On November 03 2015 07:50 Half the Sky wrote:
One more question for you Artanis.

You initially had me as a town lean with my first wave of proposals.

Why is the fear read coming up only now?

On November 04 2015 04:28 kitaman27 wrote:
Here are my reads so far. I'm sure they will change as time goes on. Admittedly there is a lot of wishy/washy or null reads. I'm still not completely sure about anyone really.

Half the Sky - Leaning town.

At the start of the game, I was concerned with the fact that she essentially posted exactly what I typically hear from scum players 6-12 hours into the game when I rarely choose to participate much. Since then, she has stayed pretty active and shows evidence of reading the thread. At certain points there was a pretty easy opportunity to

On November 04 2015 20:52 Xatalos wrote:
Crap... My phone deleted everything I was writing as I went back to look at filters :/ Now I'll just write from the top of my head..

So yeah, right now I think shockeyy is probably scum (especially if he didn't realize that the votes would be public like sicklucker said..). The remaining scum should be one of HTS/Kita (explained before) and one of Rels/Superbia/Artanis. Tbh Rels hasn't seemed too bad lately considering his constant activity and engagement, while Superbia and Artanis have basically continued semi-lurking for a long time now. Not really confident who there is scum, but that should be resolved as the game progresses.

So overall, not really confident in attempting an all-scum team right now. Probably best just to go with the safe plan of me, rayn and.. sicklucker? He hasn't really done much besides the weird OMGUS on me, but just with PoE, the point about shockeyy and overall his "I don't give a fuck" attitude seem more likely from town IMO. Tentatively:

##Nominate Xatalos, rayn, sicklucker
(That should work?)

I'll be online only very sporadically for a while, but please comment.

On November 04 2015 21:01 Xatalos wrote:
You're fine with not being on the mission, Artanis?

On November 04 2015 21:02 sicklucker wrote:
meh I think I have one of the strongest reasons to town read him in my life

On November 04 2015 21:29 Half the Sky wrote:
Work is burying me today (if I'm lucky I'll finish around 2100 today) so quick comments for now.

1 Above team is fine by me. Would vote yes. No issues with any of Xata's explanations on his team selection.

2 I will vote down any team with Rels on it (and almost certainly will be ignoring him as mafia onwards until something to the contrary jumps at me) assuming we are sticking to the conventional approach of nailing the first mission with three town.

3 I passed/scrapped my team to buy more time.

4 Artanis I think you need to re-read my filter. Unless I'm misunderstanding, you had a fear read on me before, not the other way around. my stance on your alignment is null because your RL situation is NAI and I needed more content to re-evaluate you. Seeing as you've posted more content, I'll re-evaluate after work.

5 Regarding the comments on defensiveness my argument is that for someone normally considered a very good town player Rels is scum reading me for things that do not make me Mafia. The basis for his position is actually pretty poor IMO with the caveat he has never played the game so this could explain (if somehow he's actually town) why he's seeing some things the way he is.

On November 04 2015 23:46 kitaman27 wrote:


Even though the last game he is referring to with this chart was how he tricked people to trust him as mafia?

On November 05 2015 00:02 kitaman27 wrote:


Heh I'm aware of that. I was waiting to see if anyone was going to hop on it to draw conclusions -_-

On November 05 2015 00:27 Superbia wrote:
Ugh. That answer does not satisfy me.



Rels- you are here. I am currently still incredibly stuck on your alignment as being mafia, so if you're town, you're going to have to walk me through your analysis of my alignment.



You are so incredibly stuck on me "twisting" Xatalos' words in the beginning of the day- and that it is scum-indicative. However, you evaluate my word twisty-ness from a position in which I would have to be scum and Xat would have to be town (this is why I've been calling TMI on you), while you had no read on Xat. Moreover, that entire scum-read could've been put in the garbage as soon as I started flipping on Xatalos.


This answer:

+ Show Spoiler +

Does not give me anything. It's a cheap and easy way to look at things, and ignore my perfectly good explanation. In fact, you ignore a number of my questions- ones that I still want answered. Pushing town as mafia is something you do- I've seen it done in the previous game we were in. The fact that you are so adamant with such hollow argument irks me so much, especially knowing my own alignment.

On November 05 2015 00:50 Superbia wrote:


Read the post the answer quotes. There are questions left unanswered, and the answer is very "uncaring". If that makes sense. I put effort into my post, and the effort in the answer is just, it doesn't fucking tell me anything new.

On November 05 2015 00:55 Superbia wrote:


My initial problem with rels (the TMI one) is this:
- He starts off by saying he will "eventually" read Xat (d3 or so, iirc).
- He scum-reads on me for the reasoning he has given, but that reasoning strictly works if Xat is town (But he has no read on him?).

That was my initial TMI read on Rels. It may still be true, but I'm mainly focused on the fact that is he hammering this shit home, even though he should've either re-evaluated or evolved his read from here.

On November 05 2015 01:12 Rels wrote:

Don't talk to me scum. You're using this excuse to completely shut up about anything else. GTFO or talk about something else.

On November 05 2015 01:22 Rels wrote:

I'm obtuse ???????
The guy comes back after two days of fucking nothing, is still blabing about the same stuff, and don't answer your questions. Now he found the perfect excuse to scumread me and not talk about anything else.
Why are starting to think he's town ? Because he gets angry ?

On November 05 2015 01:26 Superbia wrote:


Perhaps you are right in this argument. In any case we should probably not pursue it any further now as it will not help me evaluate Rels in any sort of way.

Kita is still up in the air at this point, he's not in my town circle. (My PoE scum list is: Rels, Shockey, Kita, Sicklucker, HtS/maybe you)
I'm mostly going off the votes here:
- There's a general feel that it is obvious most people will vote no- so scum (as having no QT) are more likely to vote with the general consensus (not sticking out etc.).
- Mafia are very likely to vote yes on a mission with a mafia. Unless the consensus is against it. Consensus takes heavy priority over everything for mafia.
- Mafia are somewhat likely to vote no on a mission with only town. They can vote yes to look good, especially early on. This can very easily go against consensus ("see, I told you the mission would pass!").
- Mafia are very likely to vote no on a mission with only town, if the situation is dire.
- Stand out vote is usually either trolly or complete confidence. I don't think shockey was/had either.

So:

If the team consisted of town, and my PoE is correct:
- Mafia is likely:
Rels, shockey, sicklucker.

If the team had a mafia, and my PoE is correct:
- Mafia is likely:
Rels, Kita, Shockey/SL.
OR
Rels, HtS (who would attempt to frame Kita), shockey/SL.

Alternate world would include both HtS and Kita but eh. Could be, but I don't think so atm. I think rayn's argument as to kita trying to influence the team a lot near deadline is good. I think the fact that none of the team-members votes for the team to pass leans towards a scum being on the team (scum votes as consensus, town votes what they believe, the fact that no one in the team believed therefore leans me more towards a scum being in the team).

On November 05 2015 22:29 Half the Sky wrote:
On the topic of Artanis, I know he said he'd free up more Thursday so I look forward to reading more from him. Can't recall if he has capoeira today though, IRL he has been on a tear with that.

Which means if he drops by in the UK, his first objective will be to dropkick me. Damn it.

On November 05 2015 07:23 Rels wrote:

How do you know I'm involved in everything as town as well ? I'm pretty sure we never played together ??

On November 05 2015 12:10 ShoCkeyy wrote:
You guys/girls are all bad at this game. It's so obvious I'm not scum by looking like scum.

On November 05 2015 08:28 Half the Sky wrote:
Meh....nvm, Artanis corrected him. Was going to say....

eh....no change on my reads on Artanis. Reading pages 3-4 of his filter and not really finding any mafia motivation in his posts. Reading his queries (993/998) on Superbia and probably will read Superbia a bit closely now...

On November 05 2015 09:03 Half the Sky wrote:


With nine being most trustworthy

kitaman27 6
ShoCkeyy 2 at most
Rels - um, zero?
Artanis[Xp] 7-8
Xatalos 7
Superbia 6
raynpelikoneet - 8-9
sicklucker 5 at most (although I'm atm trying to evaluate him on what he does have...)

I am aware that Rels, you, Superbia have pretty damned capable scum games so there is some caution with some of the ratings.

On November 04 2015 21:57 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright that's not a fear read (a fear read to me is a non-read on a player who outplayed as Mafia or a refusal to read someone who is difficult to read in general), which is why I misunderstood, but that last post I see what you mean. You're obviously posting so that's out the window, so the current null read can change depending on what I see.

On November 06 2015 03:28 Xatalos wrote:


Maybe a justification to vote no or something...? Kind of hard to follow his reads when they jump around so fast... Especially without any events in the thread causing the changes really :/

Quite wary about including him in a team at this point, I guess.

On November 06 2015 06:22 Rels wrote:

OK that makes sense. Security check: can you link me to the game in question ? All my games are in my profile so that should take you like 5 seconds.
Im also pretty sure you said you would be reading my filter and evaluating me. Will you do it, or are you pulling a Hts ?

On November 06 2015 06:28 Rels wrote:

I'm on phone so no quote: read my big post. The first line is something like "I thought he was confirmed because he made a very similar post about noobking in newbie XIII". But actually its super suspicious that he uses this game to prove that my case are boring, when my play D1 this game was boring. Now he defends himself saying "But its not THIS kind of boring!", when he clearly said in example of me being town " look how he's always looking for something new on noobking".
I get that this is not very clear without quote; read my big post and the reactions after it to understand.

On November 06 2015 18:13 Rels wrote:

Suuuuper interesting! With such a close vote, we'll have a lot of infos depending on how the team does. Let's see.

If the team pass there are two solutions:
- it's a clean team; then there have to be 2 mafias in Shockey / kita / Superbia. Maybe 3, but it's possible one mafia went for the towncred instead if he thought the team would pass even if he voted no; since in this case, he's not on the team, it would be HTS or Arta. Given how HTS posted about her opinions on the vote, I don't see her voting "yes" in that situation when she had the perfect opportunity to vote "no" to a clean team. So if one mafia voted "yes" to a clean team, it would be Arta.
- there is 1 (or more) scum in the team but he didn't make the mission failed: unlikely. The goal of the game is to win three missions for both team; exchanging town cred for 1 failure out of 3 doesn't seem to be worth it. It that happens, I think it makes Artanis town, since the plan would be to make Arta pick the same team + himself, fail the mission, and put the blame on him.
So if the team passes the mission, then fails the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, it probably means Arta's alignment will be determinent to solving the game; it's either Arta being mafia going for the towncred; or Arta being town on which mafia are trying to put the blame. Figuring this out in this case will be crucial.
If the team passes the mission, then passes the next with SL / rayn / Xata / Arta, there are all town and the game is won. That would be cool. (=

If the team fails:
There is one confirmed mafia in Xata / rayn / SL, maybe 2.
There has to be at least 2 mafias in Xata / rayn / SL / HTS / Arta, probably 3 since, as said above, the towncred lost by voting a failure team is more than compensated by the 1 win out of 3 needed. That doesn't apply if one scum thought the team would pass even if he voted "no" though.

That's where I'm at. Not going further until tomorrow.

On November 06 2015 19:01 Rels wrote:

Why do you expect a conclusion when we don't know what will happen ? I will do a proper vote analysis when we know the result. What I'm thinking above is independant from my reads, so it will be interesting to match vote analysis with reads.

On November 06 2015 19:08 Rels wrote:

Thinking about the different possible scenarios that could happen from that vote pattern, regardless of what I think of the players myself, so it's easier to understand what's going on when we get the result.

being "unlikely" that they'd pass a mission with a mafia in it only to follow it up with the fact that it is possible

On November 06 2015 19:15 Rels wrote:

Cause I want it to be clear in my head. And that worked; I discovered that if success-then-fail happened, determining your alignment via behaviour will solve a big part of the game.

On November 06 2015 19:20 Rels wrote:
Arta, what is your read on HTS now that she has answered your questions ?

On November 06 2015 19:25 Rels wrote:

LOL OK said like that it's sound super dumb. (= It has something else to do with voting though: if the team is clean, the scum team is probably shockey / Superbia / kita. If one of them is wrong, you have to be the last scum, since the team is clean and HTS could have voted "no" super easily with what she was saying just before deadline.

On November 06 2015 19:42 Rels wrote:

Well, by playing the game. There is no way to know for sure: we'll have to use behaviour analysis, vote analysis, etc. I like having all the different scenarios in my head, so I can see which one is more likely; like if I cross this analysis with my reads, I'm pretty sure the team is not clean, 'cause that would either mean that kita / shockey / Superbia are the scums or that you are scum and voted for a clean team.

On November 06 2015 20:56 Rels wrote:

You're a little shit =D

On November 06 2015 21:18 Rels wrote:

Pretty cool (=
I'm picturing you with your folder of "funny and town-looking images", waiting for the perfect opportunity to post one

On November 06 2015 21:22 Rels wrote:

No. Did you feel attacked by that post ?

On November 06 2015 21:25 Rels wrote:

It's pretty obvious it was a joke though.

On November 06 2015 21:38 Rels wrote:

First, his play makes no sense for scum. His scumreads are the two most townread people this game, and he's keeping them since the beginning of the game; and I think he might be right on rayn. This has transformed him into someone whom nobody listens to and nobody picks in their team. If that guy is mafia, he's playing to lose the game.

Second, he has this idea of solving the game that guides his posts and votes; trapping one scum with two townies so we can ignore that guy forever. That's obviously not a great idea, since scum doesn't really care about being ignored if he has made a mission failed; but the fact that he is believing it so hard makes him town in my eyes, even though the idea itself is bad.

On November 06 2015 21:53 Rels wrote:
Since you're there:

What logical explanations could exist for that post ? I'm only seeing one myself.

On November 07 2015 08:16 Half the Sky wrote:
What we know

SL/Xata/rayn = 1 spy

Rels/shockey/Superbia/Kita/Artanis = 2 spies

Latest voting results:

On November 07 2015 08:21 Half the Sky wrote:


LOL no. Eh, in the actual resistance we know the number of sabotages, but I guess that's not the case here. NVM.

On November 07 2015 08:27 ShoCkeyy wrote:


I'm starting to think that HtS is a spy.... What are your thoughts on her?

On November 07 2015 18:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The problem is, Artanis, that unless you are scum this game is not gonna be won by town.
Rels is probably town after all and so is kitaman, but Rels scumreads me and kitaman scumreads Xatalos and we were on a mission that failed so... This becomes even more hard if ShoCkeyy is town aswell, which i don't believe. But yeah, the game is pretty much lost so i don't really care.

HtS/sicklucker/Shockeyy is scum. Most likely.

On November 07 2015 18:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Not really no. I don't care to argue about stuff that can be easily found in my filter. If that is the reason for scumreading me then fine. I'll let them scumread me. I don't care, i have better things to do than repeat what i have already said.

On November 07 2015 18:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I really think you should pick Rels. You will never get this team yay-voted.

On November 07 2015 19:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Because it doesn't make sense that 2 sscum voted nay and Shockeyy is 100% scum.

On November 07 2015 09:52 Rels wrote:

Don't know, I'm kinda re evaluating everything here. The obvious answer to me is "rayn is scum, SL is town, rayn put SL to blame him when the team fails." Then at least HTS or Arta with him, maybe both.
But SL is not obvious town either, so I'm not sure. And let's not forget YOU are the one that nominated the failing team. If you're scum, that would mean you broke your meta, but that's possible.

On November 07 2015 19:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I mean like if you look at the things from my perspective:
If i assume you are town (or from your perspective -- if you assume i am town), the Xatalos/rayn/SL team is probably the best mafia can get. I don't believe any of Rels/kitaman/Superbia is dumb enough to not realise that, given that the next two leaders are you and me.

If the mission gets nay-voted, you will probably pick yourself (town), me (town) and someone else (possibly town).

It just doesn't make any sense for any of them to downvote the mission (which is also accepted by townies). It doesn't even matter if the mafia is SL or Xatalos, if you wanna go down that road (that Xatalos is scum).

Shockeyy has already proven he has no idea what he is doing anyways. And i highly doubt Xatalos, as scum, would pick two scum onto the mission, and i know, if i was scum, i would downvote the mission with 2 scum in it, because it is highly likely that none of the three people will get picked onte the next missions and suddenly you have 6 players where only one is mafia, and people won't even listen to you as you were on a mission that failed. It is just bad play to nominate 2 scum onto a mission, i know i am not mafia, so there has to be exactly 1 mafia on the mission.

On November 07 2015 19:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I know Rels scumread Superbia and HtS before the mission went on.
idk who was his third scumread at that time. Me? or SL?

On November 05 2015 03:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well anyways i am not opposed to the sicklucker pick, maybe we will get some real voting going on.

On November 05 2015 03:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Actually i think sicklucker is a pretty guud pick. If i assume my reads are even almost correct i wanna know what Rels does tomorrow if the team of me/you/SL passes the mission and Artanis (obviously) adds himself.

On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.

On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.

On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.

On November 06 2015 18:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'd still like to hear from HtS what exactly changed her mind on me when she's on a pc.

I think that's the most logical explanation votewise, and behaviorwise. If you and/or shockeyy are town, and by that i am gonna lose to scum!Rels, so be it, but i can't scumread him because it doesn't make sense, you two being mafia makes more sense.

On November 07 2015 22:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis i would really like you to swap me with Rels.

On November 07 2015 22:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:

As i said it doesn't make any sense to me that 2 scum voted nay. And Rels looks better than Shockeyy does.

On November 07 2015 22:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:

IT doesn't even matter if the team gets yay'd or not.
It forces sicklucker to give actual reads (as now he is just hiding behind "i will nay everything with Xata/rayn in it") and we'll hear something new from Shockeyy unless he wants that team to go on a mission.

Basically if i am on the mission two of the people i think are mafia have a bullshit reason to downvote it and continue saying nothing on other people.

On November 07 2015 22:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I know but the current concensus seems to be only to talk about people who are nominated atm.
You can change your mind, but let's see what those people have to say about the team i proposed.

On November 07 2015 22:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Well you know i would never pick a team with 2 scum in it, nor yay-vote it.
I doubt Xatalos would do that either.
Based on above, if SL is scum, 2-scum team would not go through because me or Xatalos would downvote it, regardless of which one of us would be scum.

So yeah, there is not gonna be 2 scum in the first mission.

On November 07 2015 22:36 Half the Sky wrote:
Artanis, it was posts 605/919. Pretty much why I'm a bit sold on you as town atm is your general thought process from 973/75, 986, etc, and your approach your Rels looks pretty towny. You don't have an agenda to push him one way or another but the reasons for you scumreading him look through from your filter.

On November 07 2015 22:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
My reasoning for sl being scum is that Xatalos looks more town and i fail to see a scenario where there is 2 scum on the mission.

On November 07 2015 23:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:

No it is not.

It is based on the fact YOU think Rels is scum.
For Rels to be scum the following must be true:
1) he knows there is mafia on the mission
2) he still nay-votes the mission
3) instead of (as you are arguing) pushing the "easy target" (sicklucker), he decides to push him AND me

Now mafia will obviously want to sabotage the first mission. Rels' play only makes sense as mafia if rayn is scum or Artanis is scum. Because it is highly expected that Artanis will pick AT LEAST rayn (as proven, if you weren't able to figure that out earlier). Otherwise, Rels, by nay-voting the team (where he has an easy scumread on SL after, especially if -- as you say -- Xatalos is scum) hinders his chances of getting a 1-scum mission 1 team. Rels already knows Shockeyy (who you assume is scum with him) will 100% vote nay to the mission.

How how does this make sense again? In a sense that Rels doesn't take the easy way out -- instead he takes the hard way out, of calling by ALSO me scum. Like it would be really easy to Rels for just "make up" a legitmate reason for SL to be town (as by your definition SL is town as Xatalos is scum), and after the mission fails he can go, like you do; "hmm... well one of these guys has to be scum, i guess i was wrong on [insert name here]".

Why is that less likely? Why does he less likely do that as mafia than what he did?

On November 07 2015 23:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I am trying to say i think Rels would have approached the situation differently.
Obviously he "can't yay-vote the team" if you just look at what he posted, but my interpretation is that if he was scum he would not post what he did during the voting phase.

My read on Xatalos is based on meta. Like based on the last game i don't really look into small inconsistancies that he posts, or him saying he thinks both me and him (while that i stupid) should be included on the mission 2. If someone wants to prove he is scum feel free to and i am willing to listen, i don't think kitaman's case makes him scum.

The fact that (gameplay-wise) sicklucker thinks i have 60%+ chance of being scum and he is arguing why Xatalos is scum instead of why i am scum should be scum-indicative already. At least more than anything Xatalos has posted imo.

Like i said, i don't see why anything Xatalos has posted is scummy. What am i supposed to argue about?

On November 07 2015 23:40 Superbia wrote:


Then why the fuck did you vote yes??? Why not wait until Artanis, who was next, makes the team???

On November 08 2015 00:51 Xatalos wrote:


Not very confident on this team...

I mean, Artanis, do you currently townread the people there? Why? Or is this just a reaction test and the "final team" will be something different? I'd think it would be better to post your real suggestion well enough before the deadline.

For example, the Superbia pick doesn't seem to make much sense. You scumread him here:



And there's nothing to indicate you think he's town afterwards? Did his NO vote really matter that much? Or shockeyy/HTS just look worse?

The kita and Rels additions I can somewhat understand. You already townread them before, and neither wanted the previous mission to go through when it should have been scum's main goal to make it approved...

I'm not really sold on the logic that none of us in the first mission should be sent on the second mission though. Since there's probably only one scum on the first team (like rayn said - scum rayn wouldn't probably be eager to send scum SL on the mission with him), I'd think there would be an equal chance of picking town on the team inside or outside the first team (2/3 chance). What's more, SL is quite a lot more likely to be scum than rayn based on play, so all the less reason to exclude us from the mission... Even rayn seemed to agree with excluding us though, but why would that be the obvious solution? I don't really see it. There are just too many potential scum outside of the first mission team. Even if Superbia/kita/Rels all voted NO (townie points, I'll admit), it's not far-fetched for scum to be included there. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure rayn is town and I'm quite clearly town as well, so... Including both of us, or at least me/rayn, would make the mission all-town quite a bit more likely.

The scumteam should be SL + 2 out of shockeyy/HTS/Superbia/Rels/kita. I don't think I can vote YES on a team that has most of its members from those. I guess Superbia/Rels/kita are the most likely town out of those (since they voted NO), but still... I'm like 90% sure rayn is town and not at all sure that Superbia/Rels/kita are all town.

rayn, would be nice if you explained what's the logic behind excluding us two? Just so that the mission is more likely to be voted YES? I don't think it makes sense to make people vote YES at the expense of more likely including scum :/ We still have several leader cycles after all, and you're even next in order yourself.

As for Artanis himself, I'm not as confident on him as on rayn (voted YES and has previously been very townie as scum), but I guess we'll just have to bet on him. It's kind of like how we couldn't afford to lynch him if this was normal Mafia.

On November 08 2015 01:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Artanis why do you want to change the team if you think i am town?

On November 08 2015 01:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:

If Rels is mafia why do both of SL and Xatalos say they will vote no?

On November 08 2015 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Why do they not change their read on Rels based on what i said?
Actually Xatalos doesn't even scumread Rels... Or like, he has three other people who are "more likely to be mafia than Rels", yet he STILL wants to downvote the team.

On November 08 2015 02:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:

the thing is if the mission somehow gets sabotaged, people will blame me.
and i will get mad for it. and both of the possible mafia (SL/Xata) don't want the team (excluding me) to go anyways.

I think it is just better play, and i think Rels is not mafia.
You can blame me post game if he is scum.

On November 08 2015 03:28 Rels wrote:


THAT DOESNT MAKE ANY SENSE
1 - unless I missed it, you didn't explain why you thought I was scum
2 - you're nominating a team that you think will fail just because rayn told you ? The only explanation I see is that you're scum trying to pass a failure team, put the blame on me (Haha I told you so!) and on rayn (but rayn told me to do that!).

On November 08 2015 18:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Now for the rest of the game i am going to call HtS bad and make her feel bad.
Hope she is scum.

On November 08 2015 18:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I was even tunneled enough to convince the cop that HIS GREEN CHECK IS MAFIA.

On November 08 2015 22:18 Rels wrote:

1 - your scumread on me wasn't displayed in thread, as demonstrated here:
+ Show Spoiler +
Plus, assuming you think I'm scum; you think Xata or SL is scum; who is the third from your POV ? Either HTS, or one of the NO voters ?

2 - I don't get it.

On November 09 2015 07:11 Half the Sky wrote:


OH SHIT. I just read post #1962. No I misread with all those line breaks. Disregard that last post then.

And then I see this explanation from Artanis.



If I'm following those line breaks correctly, oh god that is a bad explanation from Artanis. I don't agree with that explanation.

On November 09 2015 07:16 Half the Sky wrote:
Yeh, I know deadline is a bit rough wanting to go to bed early. 2215 here. I think I might crash after deadline.

Shockey, what do you think about Superbia/Artanis in general? I know Artanis looked at you (IIRC) saying you "could" be scum for not having much reads and not wanting to give teammates away.

I know you are (were?) scumreading rayn but any developing thoughts on superbia or Artanis?

On November 09 2015 07:01 Rels wrote:
No here is why arta is probably scum:
- voting yes to a failure team while not in said failure team
- his read on me is super convenient and is based on nothing strong
- he nominated a team without me; rayn tells him to nominate me; he argues that he thinks I am scum, then he nominates me anyway

On November 09 2015 08:24 Half the Sky wrote:


I told Kita slight town lean based on posting and the Xatalos disassociation, though conflicted by activity/inactivity upon looking in the last hour. I'd say closer to null. The reasons seem acceptable though but if he's town, I hope he'll give more reasons for us to call him town.

On November 09 2015 08:25 Half the Sky wrote:
2330....I need to sleep lovelies. Good night <3

Although you are really up late Lex....this game aside, go to bed!

On November 09 2015 09:01 Xatalos wrote:
I guess Superbia/Rels/kita look good for the NO votes at least. It's decently likely that the group is "pure" just based on that. Superbia hasn't really looked bad regardless so it's kind of likely he's town. kita and Rels... Are more questionable for me. I think both of them could have well done what they've done here as scum... It's mostly the NO votes that gives them credit IMO

Meanwhile Artanis does indeed suffer from the YES vote, much like HTS, especially because they weren't on the mission team themselves (I think it's more natural to vote YES if you're included on the mission than if not...). Just considering that, it might actually not be the best idea to include either of them on the next mission....

On November 09 2015 11:17 kitaman27 wrote:


If you were to nominate a team you did indeed want to pass, what would it have been?

On November 09 2015 17:27 Rels wrote:

So what did you learn ?

On November 09 2015 17:40 Rels wrote:

Well you can have all the reasoning in the world, you're still scum 'cause your reasonning sucks (= you think I'm scum for weak reasons. It's especially weird that you don't seem to push suspicions on HTS that much, which if you're town is 99% scum, the 1% being "2 scums voted NO" or "2 scums were on the first team". Your reasoning for nominating the team was "OK I'll follow rayn so I don't have to explain anything".

On November 09 2015 19:01 Xatalos wrote:


Well, voting NO to the failed mission is already pretty good in itself. I haven't ever thought of him as scummy after the very start either, unlike the other two, so I'd say he's probably the best pick out of the three... The only worrying part about him is his lurking, I agree.

On November 09 2015 20:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So that was the only team that had a reasonable chance of going onto a mission.

##Nominate: raynpelikoneet, sicklucker, Half the sky, Shockeyy

On November 09 2015 21:30 Xatalos wrote:


Which vote?

On November 09 2015 21:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So like, Xatalos is stubbornly trying to push a team that has both me and him in it, when at least half of the people in the game think one of us might be scum.

HtS doesn't even read the game (or apparently any game she has ever played) so i don't see any reason i should pay any attention to what she posts.

Shockeyy hasn't made a single logical conslusion in this game, and Artanis now for some reason thinks Xatalos is mafia instead of sicklucker because of what Shockeyy says.

sicklucker doesn't wanna say yes to any team he doesn't pick himself, doesn't scumhunt and just hides behind his heuristic.

Superbia gave up a long time ago on this game.

So yeah, i am just gonna vote yes to any team that gets picked and/or wait for SL to present his team and if the team is all town we win -- or if the team fails i am gonna blame the dude who picked the team. Because that's the correct play, right sicklucker?

Basically this game cannot possibly go anywhere so i don't really see any reason why i should give any fucks rn.

On November 09 2015 21:57 Xatalos wrote:


Oh, I thought you perhaps meant the failed mission, not the recent nomination.

I don't think there's much to it. It was going to be down voted anyways so scum could have done pretty much whatever they wanted?

On November 09 2015 22:06 Xatalos wrote:


I think the team kind of lost its legitimacy when you put your own scumread in it? So since even you were apparently going to down vote it, I don't think it could have really been made to pass...... rayn seems to have given up and just votes YES on anything, SL votes NO until he gets to pick the team, shockeyy's vote makes no sense.... Meh. Did you get something interesting out of it?

On November 09 2015 22:17 Xatalos wrote:


Well hard to think you would vote YES while your scumread was in it?

The SL thing.... I guess so.

On November 09 2015 22:28 Xatalos wrote:
Question to everyone:

What would need to have changed in the previous suggestion for it to have been YES voted by you?

(As for me: preferably Kita/Rels replaced by me/rayn)

On November 09 2015 22:37 Xatalos wrote:


K... Who would you replace super with?

On November 09 2015 22:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I would imagine you'd fight me a little harder on the SL thing given that you feel Rayn is still basically confirmed town. Do you have any doubt in that at all?

On November 09 2015 22:46 Xatalos wrote:
I'm not really even sure what you're saying about SL there?

On November 09 2015 23:23 Xatalos wrote:
You lost me Artanis >.>

And HTS.... There's just no basis for your push on me. You say I "TMI"d rayn when the team failed, but if you didn't miss it, I townread him pretty heavily from like the latter part of the first cycle already. Why would I drop the townread over SL after the failure? Granted, rayn is a bit more likely scum now, but I still don't think that's the case, and SL has looked worse after the failure IMO. By that same logic, rayn also still townreads me........

On November 09 2015 22:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

If SL is mafia, he downvoted a team that most likely has a mafia on it (since Rayn/Xata weren't on the team, he'd have to be with exactly HtS/Shockeyy for that not to be the case).

Shockeyy also voted yes to the team which suggests that if he's mafia, there is a mafia on the team making that possibility even less likely.

On November 10 2015 02:28 sicklucker wrote:


probably because your ignoring the likelyhood they are all town

On November 10 2015 05:26 Rels wrote:

Please share your thought process.

On November 10 2015 07:10 kitaman27 wrote:
Artanis, what do you think about HTS's post? (#2170)

On November 10 2015 08:20 sicklucker wrote:


holy shit i might vote yes just to see if the scum team is like xata art +1

On November 10 2015 18:58 Rels wrote:

First, I'll explain my thinking, but I'll expect you to explain your Arta townread in return.

Second, my read on you is really different from his read on me. I suspected you for something logical; and rescinded it when proven wrong. Artanis is not doing that; his vaguely saying "Rels seems to be posting without a direction", quotes two posts that apparently prove it, and then does nothing with it. It really looks like he decided I will be his scumread, then went ahead and decided why.

Third, him nominating a team YOU proposed over what he thinks is scum indicative. You gave him the excuse of not thinking about anything and just roll out with it. He explains it with "Oh but I was doing a reaction test"; reaction test that didn't give him any result.

About the "sure town" vs "maybe town" stuff, I think mafia!Arta doesn't care which townie goes with him, so that's NAI.

To expand from town vs scum mentality, he threw away his nomination chance, when the next leader is you that he townreads, so that might be OK from his POV; but the next three are Shockey (a potential scum from his POV), me (a scumread) and SL (who said he would include me, a scumread, in his team). Him throwing his team away for a "reaction test" means he ditched his one of two chances to have a team he agrees with. If he's town, this doesn't make sense. If he's scum, he's either with you or SL; you because he wouldn't care about his team since you can probably get a team approved with yourself in it, or SL who has the last vote. I would expect him to convince people to vote NO today if he's scum with SL.

On November 10 2015 19:20 Vivax wrote:


Why do you say this? I posted more townreads than suspects.

On November 10 2015 23:33 ShoCkeyy wrote:


These aren't my last posts. You obviously only quoted what you wanted to quote to just make yourself look good...

On November 09 2015 07:32 ShoCkeyy wrote:


I said yes. If the mission fails, there's definitely an Xata/Artanis chance.

On November 09 2015 07:33 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Reason why I say that is because I suggested this team a while back. Not voting yes will look bad on my end anyways, plus if Artanis is mafia, then it was an easy decision for him to insert into team.

On November 10 2015 23:39 Xatalos wrote:


The NO votes look good for you two, it's just not on the level of a confident townread. Kita for being so vague and non-committal throughout the game, and you because your recent scumgames looked pretty similar to this game too (very active and engaged..).

Now that I think about it, though, scum HTS would have had no good reason to put scum Kita into the first team.... So that gives kita a bit more credibility at least.

On November 10 2015 23:44 ShoCkeyy wrote:
It says it there in that post exactly... Kita asked me what team would I rather see up. Artanis uses my list and nominates them. I vote yes because I said I would like to see this team go up. I started to lean to no towards the end. I kept my yes cause either way I knew people were going to vote no.

On November 10 2015 23:57 ShoCkeyy wrote:
It actually does make sense... I was town reading all of you when asked the question and I was still town reading all of the nominations when it was submitted. I stopped town reading everyone towards the end. I still voted yes because either way it was a team I didn't mind seeing.

This is how I can tell none of you read anything and just skin shit.

On November 11 2015 00:03 kitaman27 wrote:


Why do you say SL was more solidly townread? Of the people who accepted the mission:

Xatalos - Town read rayn/Xat more than SL
Half the Sky - Town read rayn/Xat more than SL
raynpelikoneet - Town read rayn/Xat more than SL
Artanis - Town read rayn/Xat more than SL

Even if you include the rejects votes, there wasn't a huge amount of SL support.

If anything, this points to a scum Xat wanting to bring along SL as the fall guy, not making a "ballsy move".



You suggest that it is a point in his favor, but I'd say that it suggests he prioritizes self-inclusion over mission success.



A few other people have already pointed this out, but I don't think this applies very well considering voting no unless he is included has the opposite effect. He doesn't have to worry about his teammate's inclusion at all if he can include himself.

On November 11 2015 01:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:

The thing is, if you have 5 townreads you by default have three scumreads.
I am fucking sick of this game when people think they can get away with not giving scumreads, and dont realise its really easy for anyone to call 2-3 ppl town and then "idc about the rest".

L2P resistance if you dont know whats wrong with everyone only giving townreads.