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TL Mafia Ban List 3.0 - Page 30

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Message Blazinghand if you request a ban please ^_^
Also when the game you're sitting out is over!
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16338 Posts
February 18 2016 12:33 GMT
#581
On February 18 2016 21:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 18 2016 21:22 justanothertownie wrote:
The reason why I personally would not ban moosy is that a blue role who doesn't send in an action probably wouldn't be punished at all.

As you said yes, there is a difference.
The notable difference is it is not punishable by the rules unless it's stated so.

I know. And I understand your angle here. But I don't agree that all rule violations should be punished equally.
Whatever, I don't really care that much if he gets banned or not.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
February 18 2016 12:41 GMT
#582
On February 18 2016 21:33 justanothertownie wrote:
I know. And I understand your angle here. But I don't agree that all rule violations should be punished equally.

I meant missing a mandatory action is here equal to missing a vote, which also in my opinion should result in a ban, always.
table for two on a tv tray
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
February 18 2016 16:55 GMT
#583
oh this is why there was the other thread
I had a good night of sleep.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25561 Posts
February 18 2016 17:31 GMT
#584
So, here are my thoughts on compulsive mafia shots:

1. If you have compulsive mafia shots, you as a host need to be prepared for mafia not submitting a shot.
2. If mafia fails to submit a shot, either RNG it or call it a mafia concession or modkill all living mafia, in descending order of how good of an idea these ideas are. RNGing it amongst non-mafia if mafia fail to submit is imo the best way if your setup requires mafia shoot every night.
3. It's important that whatever you do as a host is consistent and clear so players can play the game

HtS has requested no ban for MoosyDoosy. MD has requested a ban for himself. I don't want to overstep any bounds here so I'd like HtS to change the request if appropriate.


On Onegu:

Onegu, you don't deserve any ban list action. You became ill and were unable to play. This is just a thing that happens and should not be punished. You will not be punished for something like that.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16338 Posts
February 18 2016 17:52 GMT
#585
On February 19 2016 02:31 Blazinghand wrote:
2. If mafia fails to submit a shot, either RNG it or call it a mafia concession or modkill all living mafia, in descending order of how good of an idea these ideas are. RNGing it amongst non-mafia if mafia fail to submit is imo the best way if your setup requires mafia shoot every night.

It still sucks but I agree that this is probably the best solution.
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
February 18 2016 18:29 GMT
#586
Yeah as I was in the midst of all this discussion I'd be likely to modkill/concede for a single Mafia remaining but RNG with multiple left. IDK, some people consider any form of RNG too much host interference but going forward if I make Mafia shoot, I'll be clear how each situation is dealt.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
February 18 2016 18:36 GMT
#587
On February 16 2016 09:55 Half the Sky wrote:
[N] Star Wars: The Mafia Awaken actions to be as follows:

1 Stutters695 has completed his one-game ban.

2 After discussion with others on a proper solution, MoosyDoosy, the mafia vigilante, was effectively modkilled for failure to submit a shot in a game that required the scumteam to shoot. I'm not placing in a recommendation for an actual ban, unless there was actual precedent for such by other moderators. Part of my issue here was that I've never encountered a situation where scum failed to submit a shot in a mandatory shot game, so if there's a proper reasoning where someone in the past was penalised for it, then that's the precendent I'll follow.

One issue is that he did not post all night phase in thread or in mafia qt after his remaining teammate died. The instructions to concede were first given 2 cycles prior to this, when two of his teammates were alive, yet up for auto-lynch. It was to be expected to know to shoot and also to properly concede. Additionally, there has been some peripheral discussion of rulebreaking involved that I'll leave up to the experts to expand on if they wish.

3 Onegu replaced out day 2 due to illness, and so, no action necessary.


#2 revised as follows: per modkill requirements, one game ban for failure to submit a mandatory shot.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25561 Posts
February 18 2016 22:31 GMT
#588
Alright, if that is fine with everyone, a 1 game ban for MoosyDoosy is approved. Note: MD's last ban was sat out over 6 months ago on August 16, so this is a 1 game ban.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-18 22:55:18
February 18 2016 22:52 GMT
#589
On February 18 2016 20:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So i repeat my question, what is the point of having rules in the game if breaking them does nothing?

Exactly

In fact it is inpossible to deter some behavior even when it does- therefore I am starting to think a stricter atmosphere is in order.

Because people like me will always skirt it.

On February 18 2016 21:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I see your point. My point is that every rule the host puts in their game should be enforced, and the enforcement should be a modkill followed by at least a 1-game ban. Always. Warnings don't do anything, because otherwise the people who have not warned before are being treated differently under same circumstances -- in some situations breaking the rules actually becomes beneficial to your team, and if there is no punishment it's more likely to be abused.

The line of punishments should be the same, regardless of games, or the rule that has been violated.

One example, how can anyone justify yamato's one game ban for failing to vote is in any line with ~7 games after that where ~10 people have failed to vote? yamato's punishment is perfectly reasonable, people telling those other people "there there...next time just remember *pats on head*" is not. If you break the rules, or are incapable of reading them, then get your appropriate punishment or do not play at all.

QED kudos rayn
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Onegu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States9699 Posts
February 21 2016 06:35 GMT
#590
Warning to lightningstrike for outing himself twice and getting mod killed.
Try TL Mafia!!!
Damdred
Profile Joined July 2014
15669 Posts
February 21 2016 17:11 GMT
#591
I sorta think it's bad precedent to ban moosey here when he was probably going concede anyway.

That's just me I would perhaps say an activity ban would be ok so meh.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25561 Posts
February 21 2016 19:16 GMT
#592
On February 21 2016 15:35 Onegu wrote:
Warning to lightningstrike for outing himself twice and getting mod killed.

This warning is approved.

On February 22 2016 02:11 Damdred wrote:
I sorta think it's bad precedent to ban moosey here when he was probably going concede anyway.

That's just me I would perhaps say an activity ban would be ok so meh.


MoosyDoosy seemed eager to get banned and talked the host into it, so I'm going with their judgement on this.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
February 21 2016 19:35 GMT
#593
I think MD's ban is appropriate.
nooniansoong
Profile Joined December 2015
1538 Posts
February 22 2016 20:19 GMT
#594
think of the wifom caused by an rng nk though...
NocturneMage
Profile Joined July 2015
United Kingdom1965 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-02-22 20:35:36
February 22 2016 20:34 GMT
#595
On February 23 2016 05:19 nooniansoong wrote:
think of the wifom caused by an rng nk though...


when the decision went down I was really confused, as someone who wants to understand a little more about hosting in general, I picked HTS' brain in the postgame as to why she made the decision she did - she said part of the reason she didn't want to RNG the NK when she discussed it with whoever she consulted was because of the host interference. She said that people would assume scum NKed someone when they really didn't thus creating misleading information for the town. And it wasn't at the time, fully clear in her OP, granted that's her fault and she's learnt from that.

I know she's re-examined what she'll do in the future if she runs another game where mafia have to shoot, that said, IDK on the ban. I read the mafia qt and if I had to put myself in the shoes of one of the mafia, I'd be annoyed there was no communication or at least a change in strategy for Moosy or whoever agrees to go late-game and try and carry for scum. Now I know that's not a bannable offence, but posting during the night AND not submitting an action? That's negligent at best. I could understand if he'd afked for more than say 36 hours, but if I were a scummer, I'd feel that I might have just wasted my time if I was trying to advise someone to play after my death and then they just fucked off. IDK, just my opinion.
Vlad for life. SKT supporter. I policy lynch all dota players, end of.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25561 Posts
February 22 2016 20:37 GMT
#596
Eh, I think the whole situation could have been handled better by everyone involved. I was fine with the initial host request HtS made (no action), but MD requested that he be banned for a game, and HtS complied with his request. Since the driving force behind this is MoosyDoosy, I don't feel like there's a huge use in discussing it.

In general, advice to hosts: Make it clear what happens in your games if scum fail to submit an NK. Either make it so no-shoot is allowed, or specify in the OP that the NK will be RNGed if none is submitted. As long as the rules are clear, things are fine.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16338 Posts
February 22 2016 20:45 GMT
#597
On February 23 2016 05:19 nooniansoong wrote:
think of the wifom caused by an rng nk though...

As long as it is written in the OP that not submitting a shot leads to a rnged one I see no problem with this.
nooniansoong
Profile Joined December 2015
1538 Posts
February 22 2016 21:12 GMT
#598
On February 23 2016 05:45 justanothertownie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 05:19 nooniansoong wrote:
think of the wifom caused by an rng nk though...

As long as it is written in the OP that not submitting a shot leads to a rnged one I see no problem with this.


If there's one scum left, they will nk someone random to implicate an afk player.
justanothertownie
Profile Joined July 2013
16338 Posts
February 22 2016 21:15 GMT
#599
On February 23 2016 06:12 nooniansoong wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 23 2016 05:45 justanothertownie wrote:
On February 23 2016 05:19 nooniansoong wrote:
think of the wifom caused by an rng nk though...

As long as it is written in the OP that not submitting a shot leads to a rnged one I see no problem with this.


If there's one scum left, they will nk someone random to implicate an afk player.

So what?
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25561 Posts
February 22 2016 21:52 GMT
#600
It's nice to see a lively discussion, but if it's not actually about bans, and is instead about what kind of setups are best, let's see if maybe we can take it to the Idea Factory: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/211640-tl-mafia-idea-factory
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
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