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Canada11355 Posts
On June 12 2015 04:51 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2015 04:10 Fecalfeast wrote:
Exactly what I like about BF's posts before JAT gets on my dick:
He's showing a thought process that's trying to figure out the game despite having been down-in-the-dumps earlier with all the martyring. I'm not sure new scum, after losing a scum game just before, would have the motivation to keep up the discussion.
He's not trying to scum on N-eh-CL when the opening is clearly there. Although he could also just be aware that nacl will not be lynched.
I think discussing the night kills to the extent that they have been recently is really, really WIFOM and probably not worth it.
One thing I dislike is that VA has come back to the thread but BF hasn't actually made any effor to question him or revisit his scumread. I would like you to back this up with examples. Where is the thought process of trying to figure out the game exactly? Because you said the nightkill discussion is WIFOM and his whole big post is about it basically.
I do think the nightkill is wifom and that is how he's trying to figure out the game. That's why, while I said I like his posts, I haven't unvoted him or called him town.
Why don't you think motivation would be a problem?
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Canada11355 Posts
as for the nacl thing, he already was in a position to use the nightkill wifom to implicate nacl and decided against it.
On June 12 2015 01:46 boxerfred wrote:
[snip]
On the other hand, the death of marv is an indicator that NaCl is scum in a weird way ("well scum would kill NaCl for his efforts and because he got yamato lynched. But he's scum so we can't kill him. He's got town cred over 9000 anyways.")
Not sure if I'm willing to believe that. TBH, I'm not, no.
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On June 12 2015 05:12 Fecalfeast wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2015 04:51 justanothertownie wrote:On June 12 2015 04:10 Fecalfeast wrote:
Exactly what I like about BF's posts before JAT gets on my dick:
He's showing a thought process that's trying to figure out the game despite having been down-in-the-dumps earlier with all the martyring. I'm not sure new scum, after losing a scum game just before, would have the motivation to keep up the discussion.
He's not trying to scum on N-eh-CL when the opening is clearly there. Although he could also just be aware that nacl will not be lynched.
I think discussing the night kills to the extent that they have been recently is really, really WIFOM and probably not worth it.
One thing I dislike is that VA has come back to the thread but BF hasn't actually made any effor to question him or revisit his scumread. I would like you to back this up with examples. Where is the thought process of trying to figure out the game exactly? Because you said the nightkill discussion is WIFOM and his whole big post is about it basically. I do think the nightkill is wifom and that is how he's trying to figure out the game. That's why, while I said I like his posts, I haven't unvoted him or called him town. Why don't you think motivation would be a problem?
I just said that? He stayed in a game where he was basically confirmed scum and thought he could still win. Why would a guy like that just give up now?
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On June 12 2015 05:15 Fecalfeast wrote:as for the nacl thing, he already was in a position to use the nightkill wifom to implicate nacl and decided against it. Show nested quote +On June 12 2015 01:46 boxerfred wrote:
[snip]
On the other hand, the death of marv is an indicator that NaCl is scum in a weird way ("well scum would kill NaCl for his efforts and because he got yamato lynched. But he's scum so we can't kill him. He's got town cred over 9000 anyways.")
Not sure if I'm willing to believe that. TBH, I'm not, no.
Yeah, so what? NaCl is not someone he could get lynched anyways and if he pisses him off to then his chance of survival is close to 0.
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Whatever, I will go to sleep. Let's see who of bf, fuba and mig I want to kill the most tomorrow.
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I'm back. Took me long enough but dinner and fondue for two will do that.
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If anyone is around and wants to talk, I will be reviewing BF's gameplay from D1 and D1 in general especially since I wasn't in play then.
If anyone is around to discuss BF's reads D1 particularly Yamato, please pipe up.
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On June 11 2015 04:43 prplhz wrote:
boxerfred seems to be wildly flailing right now. i liked the effort earlier but i don't know what's gotten into him now.
On June 11 2015 21:36 prplhz wrote:
@Mig Don't you find it disconcerting that so far your only support in this justanothertownie lynch is boxerfred, who you yourself thinks has very poor reasoning for going after justanothertownie? You started this entire game by expressing your respect for marvellosity and now he's confirmed town you go straight against one of his reads?
In the meantime, where do you stand (prplhz) on BF after his latest response to JAT/Salty?
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Alright, opening, we have this set of exchanges. Reading the thread in parallel to both yamato and bf's filters we start with yamato opening up with random quips. Then he ducks out of thread one hour (timestamps top of page 5) when the Mig/Salty/JAT/Chez interactions are going down.
BF makes this comment in all the case discussion going down:
On June 05 2015 14:39 boxerfred wrote:Hello, people  Sick case already, looking forward to the answers!
Objectively I would say this opening is scummy because mafia would tend to want to lay back or slow things down. A townie would want to either dig in themselves and ask questions. Therefore when Yamato appears with this about half an hour later:
On June 05 2015 15:11 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 14:39 boxerfred wrote:Hello, people Sick case already, looking forward to the answers! lol? lol. ##Vote: boxerfred
And having disappeared a while, it is actually reasonable that Yamato be exposed first thing to BF’s opening as well as prplhz’s response to him (page 7) before seeing the cases on the previous pages at least an hour or so ago that he sees BF’s comment and calls it scummy.
Yamato’s response to BF as to why he was picked out of all the cases would fall in line with this picture.
Only approx 20m later Yamato gets to commenting on JAT (timestamps, page 7), and then about an hour and a half later we get this
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=166&topic_id=486819
Which I’d interpret as OMGUS as he repeats nearly the exact same wording as to why Yam’s response was scummy.
On June 05 2015 18:08 boxerfred wrote:
##vote yamato77 since your answer looks totally scummy *rolls eyes*
At this juncture not knowing anything else, if I was in play D1, I would conclude from this exchange alone a townlean on Yam and a scumlean on BF.
Continuing….
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(Also BF, it is late here, but if you are up, please say something since I want to talk about your d1 as well.)
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Meanwhile, BF is queried by Mig on the reasoning for his vote.
On June 05 2015 20:40 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 18:10 Mig wrote:
boxerfred what do you think of me? Fecal?
Is your vote for yamato a serious one? You believe he's most likely to be scum just because he voted you? No thought on you or fecal thus far On yamato? Given that he lurks, only to make a vote on me, only to leave another short, lurky comment? Yeah could very well be. That's not too solid however. I tend to no-vote currently.
Several problems with this response. First I don’t know how a comment is “lurky” I think he means short, I’ll chalk it up to a language barrier here.
Second, given the timestamps I previously discussed, how does he know that Yam is lurking? When I go back to Yamatos vote (page 1 of his filter, page 7 of thread) the TIME ELAPSED BETWEEN his last random quip and his vote on BF was almost 6 hours (page 1 of his filter).
How does he know that yamato wasn’t out of thread entirely during those six hours? That’s one problem I have there. Now he admits it’s not “too solid” but the lurking part is what would make me think a hint of TMI.
The second problem I have there is the another short lurky comment part of that phrase. I want to assume that’s in response to the LOLs prior to the vote, but if not, he’s ignored 3-4 comments that Yamato has made between 0900-1200 (my time).
Now objectively let’s look at Yamato. We see these quotes:
On June 05 2015 18:40 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2015 17:52 prplhz wrote:
hey yamato
are you still good at reading me?
there was a point where only you and marv had the balls and/or brains to accurately read me My whole "I can read prplhz" thing was when I was mafia, lol. I'll let marv have the fun this game. Although independently of anything you've posted, there's this rule that says you should be mafia. Just dunno if it actually applies this game, given Chez's play.
On June 06 2015 04:51 yamato77 wrote:
fecal is right tho, game is pretty boring
until BF does something that looks even remotely townie, I'm content sitting on the idea of lynching him,
you lazy fucks can do the scumhunting this game, I'm uninspired.
These two quotes alone, independent of BF, I would scumread Yam. It fits his scum meta of laziness and wanting to lay back. Also knowing Yam’s meta, it’s possible that he could have done this to potentially make people question and clear BF since it might raise the question as to why he’d do something like this D1 to him.
Also still scummy of Yam because at that point Yam has commented on other people and questioned other people and weights a tone read over other things he finds questionable.
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United States4714 Posts
Hi I am here, what do you guys want my reads on everybody?
NAC/hts obvious
fuba - I already discussed him, and personally I think the NAC case that fuba is speaking in absolutes is reaching. When I read his filter it looked like wishy washy fuba.
fancy feast and prplhz - I lean town on both of them but they arent strong reads
for Fancy feast I thought his jump onto yam felt really natural and townie. Didn't try to take any credit, wasn't wordy etc. Didn't seem like he was concerned at all that someone might call him for bandwagoning. Then had this post which I thought was good
+ Show Spoiler +On June 09 2015 04:16 Fecalfeast wrote:[refrains from talking about replacement] chezinu is zzzzzzzzz come on defense thineself Boxersteve is looking more frustrated with the pressure than he is looking scummy to me. Also, one of his first posts is a case on yamato. That being said, his reaction to the marv pressure was a little over the top fuba's filter is disappointing. You see these meaty posts at the top and then he kinda just dies off. This post right before lynch time: Show nested quote +On June 07 2015 05:48 fuba wrote:
Got about 15 minutes left for lunch.
Read boxerfred's response to me. I guess I can see it from his POV. If he's truly a new player who's been busy with kids, I can see him just kinda letting D1 happen and stepping back in D2. Bothers me that he said he was gonna catch up on the last few pages, but has yet to comment on anything, really, that doesn't directly involve him. If no one else is going for him, I guess I'll switch?
But that leaves me with few choices, really. I agree with JAT's not-lynch list (and I add JAT to it, as well). Yamato is probably the one I see the most actual scum potential in, though it's mostly because I'm not entirely sure how to read FF or even VA all that well. Chezinu I have no idea whatsoever how to read, and the same almost goes for slam. It's mostly a POE vote, coupled with the fact that I just kinda expect more out of him as town.
##Vote yamato77 This looks like he was really grasping for reasons to vote yamato. First he overexplains his unvote of boxer, then tries to pass off sheeping JAT's list, then saying he can't read VA, Slam, Chez or me, as POE. With an hour before deadline this post looks very very forced to me. + Show Spoiler [crackpot theory] +On June 07 2015 10:24 fuba wrote:
Yay! Also, what does spew mean? This post has more strategic merit to it if fuba is scum. Seeing people ask if yamato spewed anyone and not knowing what it is to stop himself from doing it would be bad. VA is coming off as town to me and I don't really know why. I've only really seen him AFK and this game his random posts have been focused. The focus reminds me of when he decided to town-side as 3p survivor in brazil carnival. prplhz never posts this much as mafia and every time I have made this read about him I have been correct. He has 4 pages of filter and it's only day 2. + Show Spoiler [evidence] +Marv is acting really antagonistic and silly. I honestly don't have any experience with scum marv other than that time I was on a team with him and he got lynched day 1. I guess he's towny this game since he's not dead? best read 2015 couple questions for people: VAShow nested quote +On June 08 2015 05:27 VayneAuthority wrote:
I'm probably going to die tonight so let me post my case on chezinu.
He is mafia because we were playing duck duck mafia and when I patted his head I yelled out mafia and then i ran around in a circle and got back to my spot first he couldn't catch me Why did you think you were going to die last night? fuba if you think the light busing right away is silly, yet you're using it as a reason to TR him, is it not serving its purpose? This question is stupid, I know. I'm just trying to say that reading someone town because the 'plays' they make don't make sense as mafia is stupid. boxerfrank if you think marv is unfairly twisting your words, why are you content to look elsewhere? Willfully misrepresenting someone is a scum trait and you could easily make a case on marv if you compiled all the ways in which he misrepresented your argument.
For prplhz, mainly leaned town because it felt like he was actually trying to look at things with an open mind and he wasn't afraid to fight with JAT day1, when in the past I have seen prplhz lurk really hard as mafia, which FF pointed out before as well. He has done nothing the past couple days so if I am wrong about any of my town reads it is probably prplhz.
So then that leaves boxer/JAT/vayne
Vayne I have no fucking clue
JAT I have made my case
Boxer I discussed a bit, probably the scummiest thing I think he did was his case on JAT. Basically telling a bs story and misconstruing some events to try and fit his narrative.
one thing also for boxer
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 01:32 boxerfred wrote:
The other thought I had at that time was "Wait, why is Mig pushing on JAT when JAT is already in a fight with me?" Like, for scum, the best thing to have is to have as many accusations going as possible. Light fires wherever you can and once some fires are burning, chime in every now and then to make sure it keeps burning. I'm the biggest fire that's currently burning, yes, but once I'm lynched, it gets hard to get another fire started when you didn't spark something up in the first days already. So Mig might've seen a good opportunity in jumping on JAT, since he can imagine me getting lynched and then town people might jump on JAT.
That's why I think they are not the same alignment. It's a bit tinfoilhatty but I can see scum-Mig putting pressure on people because scum really needs mislynches. That's like the one thing I took from my first game since we lost scum-scott D1 when I was scum in that game.
Seems reasonable except why doesn't boxer even consider the possibility that me and JAT are both town? According to this his first thought was that I could be scum and I am attempting to set up another mislynch. Shouldn't his first thought have been that I am probably town and seeing the same thing as him if he thinks JAT is scum? Feels like boxer is retroactively writing his own narrative for how he wants the story to be seen.
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BF’s response to Fuba’s vote
On June 07 2015 01:46 boxerfred wrote:
I'm indeed ignoring what you're saying since I don't feel like it has any ground. I don't exactly understand why you say that a "tend to no-lynch" after saying "That guy might be scum" is scummy if it is not for some constructed reasons, trying to get a mis-lynch on a townie. I tend to no-lynch on D1 because it simply makes sense. The probability of hitting a town is way higher than hitting a scum member. I guess you know that. So while I have a scum read on yamato, that scum read is not built on like a rock solid ground but is more a first impression that I'll try to get a grip upon later on. Just like I did when I said "Why are you jumping on me, pulling attention on me instead of my read on yamato?" - Well, instead of replying to that, you just say "LOOK HE'S IGNORING MY WORDS", still shifting attention away from yamato (who seldomly posts anyways) to, oh look, me again.
So. You don't like the bolded part, alright? Well shame, deal with it. On D1, there's no evidence or indications of anything in general besides someone's posts. D1 is the day where (IMHO) scum can just lay back, chill the fuck out and jump on the first guy they feel is probably being mislynched. So BOOM ##unvote ##vote no-lynch until I find a case or create a case which seems to be worth a vote.
I might change my vote lateron though, I did not yet find the time to read through that Artanis story. Weekend with kids do that to people.
At this point the Artanis situation is done and dusted, though he’s admitted to not seeing this.
Generally no-lynching on D1 in the absence of scumreads is fine, but here he’s already cited a reason for calling someone scummy. The going to a no-lynch as I had said before is pretty scummy, but if he calls out fuba for putting attention on him he’s also showing he believes in the read enough he shouldn’t be no lynching. Plus there’s the issue of self-consciousness here.
Another key indicator here is that the votes are all over the place, so a scum BF would have been easily been able to take his vote off under the guise of trolling.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=13#242
Now BF is later called out for no-lynching by someone else and he says that it’s his second game on TL. This part could lend credence to the newbie theory. (Newb play over mafia play)
At that point however, it was about 6 hours prior to EoD.
About ONE HOUR PRIOR, Salty had unclaimed and made his massive case on Yamato.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=25#500
(About 10 pages had elapsed within 4 hours and BF was making his case on Yamato.)
With 4 hours to go, page 30 of thread, people start debating who to lynch. On page 33 or 2.5 hours prior, about 4 votes pile on top of Yamato, the 4th being about 5-10 minutes before BF types his case.
So looking at this I would definitely agree that BF could have slotted the case when he did to blend in when it looked convenient, the theory is supported by the vote sequence and the timestamps.
Finally post-lynch:
On June 07 2015 08:06 boxerfred wrote:
kaboom
I voted the guy first ppl, I voted the guy first
thank me later
I will be honest, I can see this quote both ways – excited town, or mafia wanting to take credit.
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United States4714 Posts
Anyway meh, maybe I am wrong about JAT. But everyone shitting on my case is annoying. I don't see any 100% lock I have found the mafia cases by anyone else.
I read JAT's responses and is he really this much of a giant dick as town?
On June 11 2015 19:46 justanothertownie wrote:
At this point we are just lynching boxer and mig back to back and probably win. And if one of them happens to be just terrible town I won't even feel bad about it.
I mean seriously does it look like JAT cares at all about whether I am town or not? And calling my case against him lazy is bullshit. I easily put more work into trying to figure out if JAT is town or not than pretty much any other case here.
For the people who actually read my case does my case look at all like I am mafia? Shouldn't JAT be able to at least see the possibility of my case coming from a townie?
Maybe I am just so tunneled in that almost everything I see from him starts to look scummy to me shrug.
Anyway fuck it, would rather lynch boxer than fuba.
##unvote
##vote boxer
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TLDR - I basically think the TMI case on Boxer comes on VERY early in that lurking comment when Yamato is afk for six hours.
And I can more confidently say that looking at the timestamps. The rest of the narrative as others cased it, fits now that I've walked myself again through D1.
So don't be fooled, the TMI theory is definitely valid here and he should be lynched.
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Hey Mig, about to go to bed here (almost 2am) but I will ask you this.
On June 12 2015 09:28 Mig wrote:
fuba - I already discussed him, and personally I think the NAC case that fuba is speaking in absolutes is reaching. When I read his filter it looked like wishy washy fuba.
I made a comment when Marv was alive how that wishy washy fuba could also be construed as scummy. He drew attention to himself to be fair but his backtracking when people queried him added that layer of scumminess. You might have missed it, but I'll re-quote it again.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486819-i-still-cant-believe-its-not-themed-mafia?page=77#1526
On June 10 2015 15:46 Half the Sky wrote:Leaving for work at the moment but the things that stuck out as scum to me [...] The other potential issue is how he kept second guessing himself. Given those two quotes I brought up re: Fecalfeast, it appeared that self-consciousness bled over here when Salty, prplhz, myself, etc were questioning the DT claim and could also be interpreted as him being worried how he looked to us. There were several instances. Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 03:20 fuba wrote:On June 10 2015 03:16 Half the Sky wrote:
Still the previous point stands. A hardclaim and a check would give us direction. Nearly every true blue claim comes with a check or a list of prot actions, etc.
I mean you were JK in Carnaval and when you were forced to claim, you claimed and then you explained why you JKed ritoky. It should be the same approach here. Gonna say I agree, but gonna say again, it's Chezinu... I mean, in his own way (presuming I know enough about his way to even say such a thing), he seems to have done just that. Show nested quote +On June 10 2015 03:45 fuba wrote:On June 10 2015 03:42 fuba wrote:On June 10 2015 03:29 NaCl`y wrote:On June 10 2015 03:13 fuba wrote:On June 10 2015 03:09 NaCl`y wrote:
He could quite easily also be a mafia role cop and checked marvellosity. Oh yeah... I forget about mafia roles besides roleblocker and godfather. Though does his play make sense as a rolecop? Guess it doesn't really matter. Though why you suggest that as an option confuses me. Does it explain why chez is behaving like a town cop? On June 10 2015 03:03 NaCl`y wrote:On June 10 2015 02:58 fuba wrote:On June 10 2015 02:55 NaCl`y wrote:On June 10 2015 02:54 fuba wrote:
Like, even if chez is scum, which I'm questioning, marv should at least understand what chez is getting at, considering it's almost entirely been about him. Why are you questioning this? He clearly seems to be claiming cop. So, what you are saying is that Chezinu is claiming cop but on day 1 when I counter claimed Artanis[Xp], Chezinu was quite happy to vote for fecalfeast and quite blatantly ignored the entire thing to begin with. So in his world there were 2 doctors and 1 cop? I don't believe that and that is why I deduced that his claim must be a mafia one. On June 06 2015 09:12 Chezinu wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote FecalFeast
Artanis[Xp] save yourself vote fecalfeast!!! Like I said before. His play does not look like he is a blue role at all. If he is claiming that there might be millers in this game then he could have quite possibly role checked marvellosity and to anyone that did not remember the rest of the game it would look like he's actually a cop if we actually lynched marvellosity or he flipped miller. How does his D2 not look like he's blue? Actually, at that point, he did have plenty of votes on him already. Guess he could have just been acting the entire time. By themselves, it's not a problem, but when taken in context with the whole being self-conscious about appearance, it becomes a problem. It adds a layer of scumminess to how he's viewing things based on what he said to Fecalfeast.
What are your thoughts? Or pretty much of the same opinion?
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Marv also was of the same opinion after I presented this, but wanted to bounce this off you since you felt strongly on it.
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United States4714 Posts
Isn't wishy washy fuba an indicator of his town play?
+ Show Spoiler +
On May 25 2015 08:27 fuba wrote:
Wishy-washiness is kind of my trademark town play (at least until end game). I used to post a lot more, but every time I would give a giant wall of wishy-washy reads I felt like I was painting a bulls-eye on my back, so I mostly try to think things through on my own now.
In an effort to contribute more, I'll try to get some legit reads into the thread by tomorrow. I don't work today, so I should have time to get it done. I wouldn't get your hopes up for definite town/scum reads, but at least I'll put some of my thoughts on "paper".
I'm up for a nb lynch. It's true that as a vet, it made little sense to claim during the night. The entire situation seems silly as either alignment, but that remains true. The fact that she was supposedly afraid of dying last night despite being sure that mafia wouldn't also attack her would seem to indicate that her fear was feigned. And she still hasn't explained how she flipped from geript/sandroba scum to sandroba scum + geript absolutely town. Despite being asked multiple times. Many of us had this little feeling that geript was actually town, but she seemed sure of it.
##Vote 17ninjabunnies
From reading this post from carnival, I feel like fuba is aware that people find his wishy washiness to be scummy and so he tries to curtail it a bit. As mafia I imagine he would be extra careful not to appear wishy washy and draw the extra attention to himself.
So I am not sure I understand why this specific wishy washiness is more likely to make him mafia instead of being part of his normal town meta.
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On June 12 2015 09:39 Mig wrote:Anyway meh, maybe I am wrong about JAT. But everyone shitting on my case is annoying. I don't see any 100% lock I have found the mafia cases by anyone else. I read JAT's responses and is he really this much of a giant dick as town? Show nested quote +On June 11 2015 19:46 justanothertownie wrote:
At this point we are just lynching boxer and mig back to back and probably win. And if one of them happens to be just terrible town I won't even feel bad about it. I mean seriously does it look like JAT cares at all about whether I am town or not? And calling my case against him lazy is bullshit. I easily put more work into trying to figure out if JAT is town or not than pretty much any other case here. For the people who actually read my case does my case look at all like I am mafia? Shouldn't JAT be able to at least see the possibility of my case coming from a townie? Maybe I am just so tunneled in that almost everything I see from him starts to look scummy to me shrug. Anyway fuck it, would rather lynch boxer than fuba. ##unvote
##vote boxer
I actually to answer your question have less of a problem with the case, I felt I debunked your case on him re: Artanis well I felt he honestly took all aspects into consideration prior to lynching Artanis. If you want to disagree fine, but that's where I stand. I don't understand some of your vote switches and both FF and I looked to you as if you didn't care who got lynched. We - or at least I - had a bigger problem with that.
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EPT
