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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 11 2015 03:18 justanothertownie wrote: I said my part about mig and fuba/VA are known lurkers who do it every single game regardless of alignment. So your argument is invalid. Alright JAT, so then (based on my previous question) am I correct here in saying that your primary argument against FF is his lurkiness? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
This game - 6 page filter/80 pages after 2+ cycles NSM11 - 6 page filter for one cycle (NKed N1 as VT) Ippo - 11 page filter for two cycles (lynched D2, was mafia) TL LXX - 22 page filter for seven cycles/last 2 cycles were 24h (endgamed D7, VT) Debauchery - 4 page filter for three cycles (NKed N3, VT) He's low postcount as either alignment, but I don't know I could reliably say that postcount alone is a scum indicator. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
1 The one-liner thing is not a valid argument. First JAT does that as both alignments. Second if you don't trust what I, or anyone else, says there on JAT, case building is not the only way to go about doing things, most people on this forum generally prefer conversational approach to scumhunting, some people find it easier to detect scumtells in conversation. There are some people like Damdred, Trfel, Tictock, myself, ritoky to a lesser extent that do go the case route, but to be a truly masterful mafia player on this site, you should know how to work both conversationally and via case route. 2 A number of those points about the Artanis claim are similar to what Mig tried to do when scumreading JAT and I shot just about everything down. There are honest reasons to doubt a claim and I can tell you haven't looked into those. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 11 2015 04:26 fuba wrote: You're quite a joy to play with. Not that I think I'm any better to play with, mind you, but for different reasons. Not sure how to respond to what's been said about me. I have absolutely no idea what chez was doing at all, because it definitely seemed to me as though he was saying that when he flipped, marv would be in trouble. That, along with the comment about millers, made me think he was claiming something (specifically cop). His play that day seemed to be from the perspective of a cop who had a red check on marv. I have a lot of trouble understanding how no one else at least caught glimpses of this. Actually, didn't someone say something about chez and mad hatters? Like "cut it out with this mad hatter shit" or something? Thought it was prplhz, but I didn't see it in his filter. Oh, it was mig. So at least one other person saw some sort of claim in chez's play. Guess that means I'm not completely insane. We went through this already. We expected a hardclaim based on him saying he had to afk even though it was 5h approx prior to EoD. Question after question we threw at him because no one could tell, I looked up his history to compare and test the "riddle" theory you brought up. Both FF and I read filters God knows how many times. And Mig I think said quite the opposite rightly or wrongly and voted him saying he wouldn't forget a game he was dt, he's screwing around or whatever, so that statement doesn't hold unless I misunderstood it. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 11 2015 04:31 boxerfred wrote: ad 2: okay I can get that, but what about my TMI argument on NaCl's claim? The bolded part? BF, that goes hand in hand what I originally said about many reasons to doubt a claim, there are conversely many reasons to accept one claim over another. The same principle applies. That does not necessarily mean TMI. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
First off, GGs Marv. Second, I'm not sure I agree with you on fuba Mig, and there's one thing you are missing. Salty pointed this before but will say it again - in Carnaval he provided reads, and here he's not doing that, at least not as readily in Carnaval. Ironically you take the same quote you provided and in Carnival, he's getting somewhere based on information he has in front of him. On June 11 2015 12:44 Mig wrote: Not feeling the case against fuba at all. The interaction around chez's lynch feels completely counter intuitive for how a mafia lurker fuba would play. He isn't hard defending chez but is more probing, asking questions etc. Why even bother if he were mafia and he thinks there is even a tiny chance that chez could be a cop when he is for sure going to be lynched? Just for town credit? In general people who lurk as mafia are more likely to coast and not worry about drawing attention to themselves to try and earn town cred. This post feels super townie to me also. Mafia are more careful about being honest about things like this. Posts like this draw attention to mafia and you could see fuba instantly got shit about it. + Show Spoiler + On May 25 2015 08:27 fuba wrote: Wishy-washiness is kind of my trademark town play (at least until end game). I used to post a lot more, but every time I would give a giant wall of wishy-washy reads I felt like I was painting a bulls-eye on my back, so I mostly try to think things through on my own now. In an effort to contribute more, I'll try to get some legit reads into the thread by tomorrow. I don't work today, so I should have time to get it done. I wouldn't get your hopes up for definite town/scum reads, but at least I'll put some of my thoughts on "paper". I'm up for a nb lynch. It's true that as a vet, it made little sense to claim during the night. The entire situation seems silly as either alignment, but that remains true. The fact that she was supposedly afraid of dying last night despite being sure that mafia wouldn't also attack her would seem to indicate that her fear was feigned. And she still hasn't explained how she flipped from geript/sandroba scum to sandroba scum + geript absolutely town. Despite being asked multiple times. Many of us had this little feeling that geript was actually town, but she seemed sure of it. ##Vote 17ninjabunnies You can see the same thing from fuba here in carnival as town. He openly admits to trying to craft his posts to avoid suspicion, which is generally a mafia trait but something mafia wont ever post because they don't want to draw attention to themselves. There's nothing wrong with probing and asking questions but where are those questions leading? Here's a look at how he voted for Chezinu. On June 10 2015 00:52 fuba wrote: Mmmmmm mostly town reads. I'll put in the effort of deciding who, among people I don't know how to read, is scum, when the lynch isn't already decided. On that note: ##Vote Chezinu I want to see what his death promises us. And then if for whatever reason he wanted to give Chezinu the benefit of the doubt, why didn't he explore other wagons? At least that would have been the expectation I had to some degree. Granted I think by the time a bunch of us were going back and forth on the whole thing with the Chez non-claim, Chez I think had nearly everyone on him, so I'm guessing (at least on this quote) that contributed to fuba backing down the way he did. In any case, the sticking point is the lack of reads here with him. Right I get he's bringing out his weaknesses out in the open but why isn't he doing anything about it like he did in Carnaval? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
I also generally consider tone reads fairly weak. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 06 2015 15:59 fuba wrote: Sorry, I was really out of it today. First, regarding the claims... I can't find a reason to really disbelieve NaCl's claim. Was at least leaning town on him before it (mostly because of the case that people seem to agree seems accurate, though I haven't had the time to look into mig's previous games myself). That being said, I can't really decide what to make of Artanis's claim. My instinct is to believe him, though that instinct has bitten me in the ass before. Like prplhz said, his story does have a consistency to it that leads me to believe he's telling the truth. The fact that prplhz's view suddenly seemed to flip on the subject makes me... uncomfortable. I think I'd prefer to lynch this guy. Gives reasons to see yamato as scummy>says yamato could be scummy>backs off on it>prefers no-lynch over guy he thinks could be scum. I mean, I understand wishy-washiness better than anyone, but he definitely seems to just be coasting by. Like... if he'd really given enough thought to preferring a no-lynch over a yamato lynch, why didn't he then switch his vote? He seems to just be saying things to say things, giving the appearance of participation, and disappearing. ##Vote boxerfred Gotta get some sleep, but I'll get up an hour or two early to read/talk. And you could argue to some extent the same thing is happening with BF now. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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On June 11 2015 21:13 justanothertownie wrote: And if you read what happened today so far - what do you think of Mig? Getting there. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
The one thing I did not catch before however, would appear how he switched his stance on you JAT. | ||
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Germany9029 Posts
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Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Second half I really don't like. You have a different style of play - conversational play. You said you only played one game with him, IIRC. But I've also played with you enough to know that to some extent, he has to evaluate you differently. Aperture was very different because to some extent it was a PM game, so any digging was not done by filter hunting it was via PM. That's a big thing I think he's missing when making that meta comparison. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
That's potentially another flaw in his case. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
The only question from his POV that could be valid is him asking why you took so long to focus on Yamato because he's actually focusing on something you did or didn't do. But Yamato's pushes though I can see where he initially comes from the potential TMI quote where he talks about lynching into obvious claims should create enough doubt that he was going soft pushing on a mafia JAT. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
On June 11 2015 21:49 justanothertownie wrote: Sure. The fact that his case is bad isn't in question here. The question is do you think he is town playing very sloppily or mafia? Here's what bugs me about Mig - does he have any scumreads other than you? He's considering all possibilities but where does he stand on people other than you? he lynched chez for what I'm assuming appeared a meta-based reason which could be good or bad - he dropped you who he felt strongly about for chez after nearly everyone had piled on Chez. Blending in? Could be. He tried to post bad cases re the Artanis claim and this case isn't very good either, if he's mafia, he's flailing because he can't build a case against anyone else using the argument "considering all possibilities" to buy some time, he could be finding weak/poor reasons to defend Fuba. He still hasn't considered the read progression of fuba, which I find quite interesting when he's apparently looked him over at Carnaval. | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
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