Very tempting.
Noir Mini Mafia: Chapter 3
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Very tempting. | ||
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On April 20 2015 12:49 rsoultin wrote: -growls-so many of my favorite people <3 | ||
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/in | ||
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On April 20 2015 22:09 rsoultin wrote: Hahahaha, pretty sure the weak link here is me XD-flops on- we can be the weak link togetherz! | ||
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I wasn't expecting this to start so quickly o.O But I will play anyway, it should be fun! Even if I am very much out of place. | ||
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On April 21 2015 00:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: He edited it.Actually, the spelling is fine, the capitalization is not. | ||
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I have a nasty programming project (well, it's actually extremely basic, but I am terrible at programming, so it's driving me insane). I'll check back here when I am done with the project. I know, activity excuses already. Good luck, and happy scumhunting! | ||
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On April 21 2015 09:37 rsoultin wrote: On the contrary, that's the sentence that makes the joke. It's weak without it.why even include the bolded sentence when it's clear in the first lol >< if anything that deserves a light scum lean, not a light town lean ![]() On April 21 2015 10:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Mafia wouldn't bother with suggesting something and admitting that it can't be proved in the same post, this early on, when it doesn't matter like this. Right?You get a tentative townread for this post. More free towncred to the first person to correctly point out why. I find it extremely surprising how WaveofShadow reacted to Breshke's vote. As if the third vote is any scummier than the first two on a joke wagon. It just means that Breshke didn't think of it first, that's all. I'm hoping that he did this to generate discussion. However, it seems that WaveofShadow didn't realize that votes are only counted every 24 hours. I suppose his play makes sense with this in mind. I actually think that this makes WaveofShadow likely to be town, as mafia would have realized this via the scum QT (which you bet he would be checking this early in the game, and with three votes on him). Of course he could fake it anyway, but his posts seem genuine enough (including the frustrated tone), so I kind of doubt that this is the case. And this also falls apart if his partner is inactive. Still, I see this more as a town play. He feels frustrated, not panicked. And trying to make the most of the situation, not trying to save himself. On April 21 2015 12:04 rsoultin wrote: Not really, mocking me is quite easy. You've proved this time and time again.lol i thought he was mocking truffle with his post :/ that would have been so clever WaveofShadow's play does show some inconsistencies (minor), and some things that don't make sense. But I see them being in line with him being flustered over the opening. If this continues, though, perhaps more suspicion is warranted. Town read on rsoultin just because making a strong townread on her early in the game is super popular + Show Spoiler + Not a strong townread, but she immediately started the game by aggressively discussing and pointing things out. I don't think that rsoultin would have played like this, she would have been more content to let yamato77 and WaveofShadow fight. Plus, toneread. Hence, town lean. + Show Spoiler [to rsoultin] + I wonder how long it will take you to learn the patterns of my entrance posts. And no, it's not a "hello world" program. We haven't learned to output two words yet, so it's just a "hello" program. To be honest, I'm stuck on step 1: turn the computer on. | ||
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I have to leave for an exam in maybe a half hour. I really need to study. Would anyone care to distract me? | ||
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On April 22 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote: I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!when i call you scum, wave, you'll know it -flicks- talk to me about the truffle post. you're the one who wanted to talk about things I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town, | ||
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On April 22 2015 05:46 rsoultin wrote: Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!lol >< the part about he'd know if he was looking at his scum QT and he definitely would check his scum QT and his scum partner definitely wouldn't be inactive? xP oh yes, it was amazing, truffle -golf claps- In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far? | ||
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On April 22 2015 05:49 rsoultin wrote: I suppose you're right, it's best for me to keep my thoughts about Blazinghand to myself for the time being. I hope that you are curious.in all seriousness? you're asking me about the one-post wonder? -yawn- talk to me about people who have been posting ^^ I suppose Artanis looks the most suspicious to me so far. On April 22 2015 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Why didn't I make the list? Why is he so content to wait? I noticed that Artanis was probing with questions for information earlier, but lately he's dropped off, and now this quote.I'm kind of in favour of waiting until BH and Palmar do something. We have all the time in the world this game, mind as well make them do some work. | ||
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On April 22 2015 06:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I give up. Rsoultin is slow, and she's probably town anyway.Imagine you're Artanis in this game. You see two players that can be great as town doing fuck all. There is no hard deadline. You force them to participate by taking a back seat and take your time. I agree, you aren't forcing them to participate. Furthermore, in Palmar's case, he trolls quite often. As town. And it's not a weekend, so I don't know why you think more time would help. I skimmed your filter in Linux Mafia, and you didn't seem to mind Palmar's trolling all that much, I got the impression that you worked around it. | ||
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On April 22 2015 06:17 Trfel wrote: EBWOP: I agree with WaveofShadow.I give up. Rsoultin is slow, and she's probably town anyway. I agree, you aren't forcing them to participate. Furthermore, in Palmar's case, he trolls quite often. As town. And it's not a weekend, so I don't know why you think more time would help. I skimmed your filter in Linux Mafia, and you didn't seem to mind Palmar's trolling all that much, I got the impression that you worked around it. | ||
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On April 22 2015 06:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote: But I'm doubtful that it's worth stopping playing the game over?None of the other games are comparable because they have hard deadlines. This game doesn't. That's a very big difference. My play isn't very useful if you all put your attention on me though. Palmar trolls, but when he's at risk of getting lynched, he will play to his win condition. Same is true for BH (for the most part). You can play the game, promote discussion, and then decide to pressure or lynch Palmar anyway. You can play the game and let Blazinghand know that if he doesn't come back at the time he said he would, he will be lynched. | ||
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On April 22 2015 06:23 rsoultin wrote: Um, you completely missed the point. I don't know why you decided to go there at all.okay, truffle so i'm scum artanis my scum partner may or may not be one of bh or palmar, but can't be both so i say let's wait until they do something rather than trying to push a hasty vote through? xP bh said he'd do something later if we give him some room...palmar's a coinflip...most day phases last 48 hours anyway and unless you've got someone you're super sure is scum i see no problem with pushing this out to a standard 48... not saying it makes him town, but i don't see how it makes him scum. essentially you're keying in on something nai. again Why does it matter if one of Blazinghand or Palmar is mafia or not? Either way, it is in town's best interests to scumhunt. There is absolutely no reason to lynch in the first 24 hours, lynch when confident. Let's say we lynch in 72 hours. If we spend the first 24 hours sitting around, waiting for Blazinghand and Palmar, that's 24 hours that could have been spent finding scum. There is no town incentive (other than laziness) to wait for inactives before starting to play the game, really regardless of the deadline. | ||
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On April 22 2015 06:31 rsoultin wrote: I don't believe that anyone has suggested lynching today?you're boring me truffle lol >< what artie chooses to do or not do we can make him answer for later. he doesn't control the rest of us. the fact remains that not lynching someone today when two players have done jack-all is actually better for town, regardless of the alignment of the person who suggested it Either way, I got what I wanted out of this conversation. Artanis responded exactly like I would expect him to as town. Both the initial tolerance and willingness to discuss with me and the eventual frustration seem to be appropriate townie emotions. | ||
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On April 22 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote: I think that it's better to sit quietly on this for now.Hey guys my name is bh, I'm moving so I won't be doing much don't lynch me give me time.-scum bh HEY GUYS I HAVE A NEW JOB WONT DO ANYTHING FOR AWHILE SO DONT LYNCH ME-BH this game | ||
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On April 22 2015 07:15 rsoultin wrote: This. If we lynch anyone, it should be Damdred.meh i don't know about damdy this game -_- | ||
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On April 22 2015 07:15 Damdred wrote: Rsoultin, would you like to use this reasoning on Damdred and see how he feels? I think it will be fun.That's part of the bad thing about a sorta iml nobody wants to play unless they have to. As such I think arts actions are scummy and we should,make him play ##vote Damdred | ||
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You see something you think is scummy, and you vote it. Either they are scum, or they deserved it. I see something I think is scummy, and I vote it. Either you are scum, or you deserved it. Have I made my point? ##unvote | ||
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I find it suspicious. | ||
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On April 22 2015 07:27 Damdred wrote: But I can explain it?This isn't suspicious, this is a hard read that you can't explain You're not playing up to the level that I expect from you, or anywhere near it. On April 21 2015 14:06 Damdred wrote: I get it, there are hidden meanings based on the list categories. But you didn't provide any explanation for most of these at all. Seeing as you hadn't done anything useful at all by this point (no, calling someone with no posts scum doesn't count as being useful), you need to contribute something of your own.Wouldn't Lynch Ever Damdred Wouldn't lynch probably Rsoultin Breshke I like you will you come over later? Yamato Who are you and what did you do with who I used to know Artanis Why are you ignoring us all: would probably lynch Trfel Probably Would vote for Wave of shadow Must be scum Blazinghand Must Be Palmar palmar This is sorta a silly list post if anyone has any questions just ask i'll answer it when i'm around and not asleep When you actually explain your reads, I don't care for your Blazinghand read. Your read on me doesn't say anything. Your reads on Breshke and yamato77 are better, though. On April 22 2015 05:10 Damdred wrote: But you said that my last post was okay and moved me up on your list.I don't like that post especially that town read on wave hrm. And I've already explained why your vote on Artanis is bad. | ||
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On April 22 2015 07:33 WaveofShadow wrote: I voted him in an attempt to make a point, and show that his reason for voting Artanis was stupid. Apparently that didn't work.Then why vote and unvote him with that explanation? Lynching today isn't a good idea. I already said words to that effect. Of course I wasn't going to lynch Damdred. | ||
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On April 22 2015 07:44 WaveofShadow wrote: I was trying to put something into practice, to actually demonstrate it, instead of using words. Clearly that didn't actually get anything done.OK but what's your intent then? It's understandable not to want to lynch in the next hour or whatever, but was the whole point just to explain to damdred how poorly he's behaving? What is that supposed to accomplish? I've shown why I think Damdred's play is suspicious. And I do think that voting Artanis is bad at this time. I've already said why I think that his reaction to my pressure with yamato77 was towny. He's been focused and asking questions, getting information, getting discussion started. I'm not going to ignore that and lynch him because I disagree with one of his opinions, especially given the way he responded when questioned. I'm extremely surprised that Damdred would just lynch Artanis for this. | ||
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However, given the way that he openly broke his meta last game (mass bussing when he is known for a no bussing meta), I wouldn't actually be at all surprised if he decided to troll in this game if he is mafia here. So in the end, I'm actually more suspicious of Palmar, not less. | ||
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On April 21 2015 10:05 rsoultin wrote: Wait, rsoultin, why did you say this?i like yama and palmar this game so far | ||
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On April 22 2015 11:00 Damdred wrote: No, do I need to?Have you looked at any of waves games as scum trfel? | ||
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On April 21 2015 12:31 WaveofShadow wrote: Yet another reason to townread WaveofShadow.And I never said artanis's reason was 'real.' I'm actually rather self conscious of my wording when I'm under suspicion, much less mafia. And I would remember the words that I used. Here, WaveofShadow directly contradicts the wording of one of his previous posts (in wording only, not intent). As mafia I would never have done this, and I think that this shows that WaveofShadow isn't paying much attention to his posts, a towny quality. | ||
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She's being annoying and commenting on everything, with very high "entertainment" standards. But she's not doing anything interesting herself. It makes her town. | ||
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On April 22 2015 11:40 rsoultin wrote: Of course I know about the Palmar one, I was asking about the yamato77 one...the one on palmar was retracted xP you actually quoted the quote you ninny as for yama, i just have generally liked how he's approached the game so far, between the joke vote, pushing wave but not continuing to antagonize him when it reached a certain point -shrugs- not sure where exactly the quote fell in all that, but i've felt generally good about yama through most of the game Why did you say that when you posted it? There wasn't much to work with then... | ||
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On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote: It's not very relevant, but I need to know.This part is a bit trickier, trfel as scum in my experience likes to be in the thick of the action trying to shape other peoples reads and causing subtle confusions. Very unlike bh scum game which is more behind the scenes, besides trfels last bit post who h was ok that puts him more towards the bottom of null rather than town. Damdred, whatever gave you this idea? You make my scum game seem extremely sophisticated, and I have absolutely no idea why you would think this. | ||
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On April 22 2015 11:46 rsoultin wrote: Yes, but I'm still curious.lol i dunnae i'd have to look when i posted that xP early game it was obviously a light read? Basically all he did was make a few jokes, then vote for WaveofShadow, and then say that it was something he said he would do pre-game. I don't see how you could arrive where you did. Enlighten me? | ||
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On April 22 2015 11:50 rsoultin wrote: I see.tone he was light in the beginning which is harder for scum I don't feel terribly enlightened, but whatever. | ||
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On April 22 2015 11:55 rsoultin wrote: Not really sure, but it's dirt cheap. Next time, I go for quality.lol you ask me to explain light reads i have a page into a game and expect a stunning revelation? xP whatcha smokin' today truffle? | ||
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On April 22 2015 12:06 Trfel wrote: Eh, never mind.You guys stay around, okay? When I finish reading the thread, I need people to talk to. I think I need a break. See you guys tomorrow. | ||
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I reread about the first half of the thread. Damdred is very likely to be town here, despite my earlier read. His play actually does have direction and focus. Furthermore, someone pointed out that mafia Damdred plays to survive. Damdred isn't playing to survive here; smaller post count (at least in the first half of the thread) aside, Damdred's tone is extremely relaxed, and he did that strange list post to try and draw questions about it. Damdred here is enjoying the game, and playing for fun, which makes him quite likely to be town. WaveofShadow is also town here. His play makes sense from a town perspective throughout, both when he thought that the game was Instant Majority and when he realized what the vote format is. Again, WaveofShadow's play shows some inconsistencies, but they are in the details and I actually think that they make him more likely to be town (I explained one of them a few posts back). Breshke is probably town here as well. I was a bit put off by the way that he defended WaveofShadow when it wasn't necessary, but the comment he gave was absolutely correct, and the way that he posted afterwards seemed genuine. He's been providing useful points and good thoughts this game, and that is a sign of town Breshke. I think that yamato77 could be mafia here. I'm not going to go into it in detail, but it's just an impression that I get. He makes several comments picking on people's play, and only later attaching an alignment to it (ironically, one example of this is Breshke defending WaveofShadow without taking a stance on WaveofShadow's alignment.... yamato77 only takes an actual stance on Breshke later). Furthermore, yamato77 wanted to point out one of WaveofShadow's statements that had no value (it was a null read on himself), but didn't arrive at any conclusions about WaveofShadow's alignment from this. Yamato77 does seem a bit overly concerned with people's reads on himself. I might be gone for a while. Good luck, and happy scumhunting! | ||
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Artanis is probably town, though I haven't carefully read the section of the thread in which he was posting. His questions are not only motivated at making reads, but also increasing the thread motivation. While he could do this as scum, I don't think it's terribly likely. In addition to the way that he responded to my pressure on him (previously described), I feel that Artanis is likely town. And Blazinghand could very well be scum. I didn't want to say it earlier in case he would hear that he was under pressure and change his play, but everyone's already talking about it. Blazinghand is willing to go to any length to survive. Furthermore, I don't actually think that his post comes in a town mindset. Town wouldn't sign up for a game and not even have time to read the thread. Town would glance over a few pages and provide at least a few thoughts to go on. Town wouldn't necessarily ask for a no-lynch on Day 1, town would trust that if other people wanted to lynch someone, that they would have good reasons for doing so, and wouldn't force themselves to be present. Town wouldn't set a hard deadline. His post feels more motivated by someone wanting to survive, than the actual words that he says. Good enough for me for now. ##vote Blazinghand | ||
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On April 22 2015 04:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Still catching up on the thread.Hm, I can see what you're saying Wave. Looking back I do feel like he's pulling a bit of a character though, which leads me to believe the confidence thing isn't really alignment indicative in this case. But would it be possible to get an explanation of this? What does it mean to "pull a bit of character"? Thanks! | ||
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I'm not scum. Let me prove it. ##unvote ##vote Blazinghand Hammer vote is mine! | ||
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On April 23 2015 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Do explain?Trfel incapable of basic math apparently, or lying. | ||
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On April 23 2015 05:12 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm on page 26 right now. Let me finish. I'm not making excuses.And once again, how the hell have you taken so long to 'catch up with the thread?' Like, a bunch of other people flat out profess to not have read it but you would rather make excuses for not reading a 20 page game? | ||
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On April 23 2015 05:45 rsoultin wrote: Working on it, but yamato77 is annoying. My explanation of why he is scum doesn't fit into any of my typical case formats, so I might have to improvise a bit.so now that you've read the entire thread you can solve it for us, right? xP i've retired from the "annoying prodder" role. carry me | ||
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On April 23 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote: Never mind about this, really.Working on it, but yamato77 is annoying. My explanation of why he is scum doesn't fit into any of my typical case formats, so I might have to improvise a bit. In the end there isn't much that sticks on yamato77. He's mostly been focusing on irrelevant things and not driving the thread direction in ways which I feel are the best, but that doesn't make him scum. | ||
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On April 23 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote: Yeah, in retrospect, Artanis hasn't been doing as much as I thought. What he has been doing, though, has been in the right direction. I'm not sure how much of this is due to his post count restriction, and how much of it is due to my annoying him yesterday.talk to me about artie and damdy -flops on- or about part of my list you disagree with artie just seems...i dunnae, like people keep saying he's doing stuff but off the top of my head i can't really recall what aside from being charitable about my negative toneread on his entrance vote xP Damdred's tone looks really good for him here. And while some of the things he is doing seem strange, I don't see the mafia motivation, and he has seemingly tried to get more information into the thread. I don't think that he is scum. | ||
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On April 23 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote: Right now I'm not really sure about his alignment, so he's null. I'm not going to meta read him unless I have to, and even then I'm really bad at meta reads.He scum read Trfel. And actually as I recall that read is mostly based on meta and contrary to your read soniv kind of interested to see how that plays out. Also don't quite get that yamato read Trfel. | ||
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On April 23 2015 06:15 rsoultin wrote: I think that Artanis's scumread of me actually looks good for him. He makes a good point, and that's the sort of read that I expect from him. Would he do that as mafia? Not sure, but I think that he knows that he won't mislynch me this game (or at least, he will need much more evidence first).well, that's easy, wave lol >< i'm right the really question is whether or not it's reasonable for artie to be wrong about truffle and still town ![]() (truffle is a super easy read imo) meh guess i should actually read artanis' filter :/ I'm still leaning town on Artanis, though is absence is concerning me. Does he agree with the Blazinghand wagon? If not, he should be here and trying to stop it. At the time of his last post, there were four votes on Blazinghand. If anything looks suspicious, that is it. He doesn't care if Blazinghand is lynched or not. | ||
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Artanis did comment on Blazinghand, first not convinced that he was scum due to his case, and then felt that it was an okay lynch due to the followup. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked. It isn't a very large or amazing amount of information on Blazinghand, but I suppose I can see it from the perspective who sees an okay lynch, but also sees everyone ignoring what is (in his opinion) a better lynch. | ||
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On April 23 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote: It seemed to me that Artanis would be back later to finish his read on me.mmm or maybe just benching the read for later? okay i guess i can give artie some space to see what comes of this Artanis is sort of null, I suppose, given both his semi-weak stance on Blazinghand and not having the thread leadership that I thought he did at a glance. I expect scum to be among Artanis, yamato77, and maybe Breshke, even though I can't demonstrate that any of them are clear scum yet. | ||
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But from what I've heard of Blazinghand, I'm not sure that this actually makes him mafia? Would he play to live, at all costs, as town? | ||
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On April 24 2015 09:06 yamato77 wrote: Too bad, you're the person I'm most interested in.will play later. have LYLO to do in other game Oh well, it is what it is. | ||
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On April 21 2015 08:40 Hapahauli wrote: Bleh.3) Mafia KP is delivered by individual players, and is therefore block-able. Mafia can opt not to shoot, and can use that saved KP the next night (in addition to normal KP). Good luck, have fun! | ||
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I can tell people are paying attention to me. | ||
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On April 24 2015 09:20 Breshke wrote: I'm kind of suspicious of the way that yamato77 dealt with the Blazinghand wagon. Does anyone else agree, or am I being tunneled against him?I don't really get that. Like if there is a detective role they are just letting them get a free check. By not killing anyone they ensure our Pr doesn't die and if we have a saving role using two KP in one night feels like it increases the chances that they will get a save. Does anyone have any conclusions from BH flipping town because i got none currently | ||
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I just noticed a contradiction that yamato77 gave in regards to Blazinghand's activity. When Artanis was asking to delay to get Blazinghand and Palmar to play, yamato77 said that Blazinghand was capable of astonishing uselessness as town. When Blazinghand was hammered, yamato77 asked to wait another day to get a better read on Blazinghand, since Blazinghand can defend himself really hard when he is town. | ||
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But I don't see a reason in his filter to scumread him. If he is scum here, it's more about what isn't there than what [/i]is[/i], I think. At this time I don't want to lynch him, though he might be scum here. I'm much more confident on yamato77 being mafia. | ||
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I read the first several pages of yamato77's play in Newbie Student Mafia VI. I'm biased, but in this game, I could immediately feel yamato77 being useful and directing town, and commenting on the most important things in the thread. While tonally it felt similar to this game, I felt that yamato77 was far more effective in Student Mafia VI than in this game. Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77. Any thoughts are appreciated. | ||
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I just don't know about him, every time I convince myself that he is scum, something else comes up that suggests that I'm wrong. I'm almost thinking that he is guaranteed town because I'm scumreading him, but ugh... | ||
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On April 24 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote: Would you rather I be confident in my play to a degree far higher than my skill at mafia warrants?I'm not sure what else you want me to explain, Art really isn't helping town Trfel at this point is being pretty wordy while showing the thread that her suspicions while leaving doubt in there for a backtack for example For someone who was sure of this read enough o dig up old games, much doubt is put into it and distance is put inbetween in case yamato flips town. One surefire way to find town players is to look at my scumreads. Here's what I'm thinking, and yamato77 is a scumread of mine. But I see ways that this read could be wrong, so I'm asking and sharing my thoughts. I could keep holding my thoughts to myself, and analyzing him myself, or I could leave it open to the rest of the thread, where everyone is better than me and can analyze this better than I can. It's a matter of honest, not a matter of alignment. I mean, if you want me to push my reads to the end of time, I can do that. If you want me to throw the game for town, I can do that as well. Up to you. | ||
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Based on what I said, do you think that yamato77 is scum? | ||
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On April 25 2015 01:43 Palmar wrote: But he didn't really follow up with his other pushes either.Half of what Yamato did early was argue with wos only to never follow it up That or he just likes to feign complete confidence in his reads without actually being that confident in them. | ||
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I'm fairly confident that at least one of my townreads is mafia, I'll take another look at them soon. | ||
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I'm sorry for my absence. I was at a movie-watching event for all three Hobbit films and all three Lord of the Rings films. I'm a bit sleepy at the moment. I'll catch up tomorrow as soon as I can. | ||
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On April 27 2015 06:12 Damdred wrote: I'm here and reading, give me a second...If you pay attention to happas messages, yesterday it said till next vote today says end of cycle basically. No I've been pretty clear with what my problems are. You have my attention rsoultin, even though Trfel has done less than breshke let sigh I'm actually rather surprised that Breshke agreed with Palmar about yamato77. Breshke definitely needs a filter dive. | ||
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Thanks! | ||
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On April 27 2015 06:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote: As for my tone itself, I can't address. For read certainty, the reads you comment on here being more certain are my townreads. I haven't really had a solid scumread all game long.1) Tonally very different from your towngame; much more certain in reads until I pinged it out 2) Could not follow your read progression on me. Pointed it out before which you never addressed. 3) Handing out a lot of townreads in general for pretty sketchy reasoning. Those are my main reasons. I don't understand why you have problems with my read progression on you. Most of the posts that you cite were while I was in discussion with people, so we were looking at things and posting our thoughts. My thoughts on you weren't complete, I posted after basically every new (notable) thing that I found, or that someone else pointed out. My read on you changed as I got more information. As for you getting a townread from me easier than before, it's because I held you to standards that are too high last game, and I (hopefully) corrected that error. If you expect me to not rethink my reads when given new information... it's just a sign of lazy play. As for the reasoning behind my townreads, I guess you're right about this. I have most likely townread someone incorrectly, as per this response to your earlier question:My track record, plus I have too many townreads. I guess this has generally felt like a low-content game, and I'm having trouble finding mafia, so I resorted to being more liberal with townreads, which probably wasn't the best idea. | ||
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On April 27 2015 06:52 Damdred wrote: Why... As of page 39:Trfel New reads lists type deal please. Town rsoultin WaveofShadow Town Lean Damdred Palmar Maybe Scum (filter dives pending) Artanis Breshke yamato77 | ||
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On April 27 2015 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hm, I did explain exactly what caused my read to change each time.Regarding the read progression, I'm all fine and dandy with that but you never really address it in your posts what made you change. I feel that as town (in the past at least) you often state exactly what changed your mind when it does, and I've missed that this game. Last time, you mentioned you were much more confident in Yamato being scum than me. Recently, you've mentioned that you don't think Yamato is scum anymore. Am I currently your top scumread or where are you at? I don't have a top scumread right now. I removed my scumread on yamato77, but I never decided that he wasn't scum (does that make sense to you?). I found it surprising that right after I left, multiple people posted reasons to scumread yamato77 which I explained in my case on him (apparently, explained very poorly). That makes me slightly more confident in my scumread of him, but it's possible that he always plays in ways that I deem "scummy", because the way he is playing isn't strictly anti-town, its effectiveness depends on how it is done. | ||
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On April 27 2015 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Check my filter?Trfel, can you lay it to me why you think Wave is town? The more specific, the better. I'm not going to dig up quotes at this time, but I felt like he's been playing naturally all game long. He's made several reads that I like, and he's been willing to discuss and move things along. His early argument with yamato77 felt particularly natural and towny. Perhaps he's just very good at being natural and relaxed as mafia, but there were some other specific things that I noticed (I don't remember them any more, they should be in my filter) that make me think that he is town anyway. Plus, I'm noticing a lot of the same things that I noticed when I townread him (correctly) in Aperture 4 (willingness to discuss, some insightful reads, generally liking his comments). | ||
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On April 27 2015 07:06 WaveofShadow wrote: In your earlier posts, before the entire thread (for some reason) decided that you were mafia.How was I willing to discuss anything in Aperture 4? | ||
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On April 27 2015 07:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Point by point.But I pointed out that you didn't. You gave two reasons to townread me, then proceeded to say I was null for things you had noticed and pointed out before. + Show Spoiler [Initial case] + On April 23 2015 07:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The posting less is a consequence of spending less time on the game, which is what the real reason for posting less is for me. Creating quality posts costs time too, therefore it seems unreasonable to expect consistent high quality posts as it'd still require a lot of time. I feel the observations I've had have been decent so far, though. Reading Trfel, I don't understand his read progression on me at all. He had me as scummy leaning for my comment on waiting for Palmar/BH (which I feel is a dumb reason, but ok), then town for the way I replied to it, then said this about me: So at this point he feels I'm likely town. Weakening off his townread on me a little, but still maintains that what I'm doing is in the right direction. So he was leaning town on me, then finds another reason to lean town on me (scumreading him). Aaand another reason to townread me. So that's two more reasons to townread me after leaning town on me earlier. What happened? I don't understand this progression at all. On another note, I think I might also want to lynch Palmar for voting for Yamato when Wave was his top suspect, and he suspected Yamato for the way he treated Wave's case rather than going after Wave himself. He also never really re-evaled Wave. Palmar's tone is always pretty confident these days I find, so I don't want to clear him for that in retrospect. Also a case of other people being townier.
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[QUOTE]On April 27 2015 07:15 WaveofShadow wrote: [QUOTE]On April 27 2015 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Basically, what's weird to me about Palmar is how Wave is his prime suspect, yet he never really goes to full lengths to get him lynched or research him, but rather just goes after Yamato when thread sentiment is turning against Yamato making him an easier mislynch (presuming Yamato is town). It doesn't seem like he's all that concerned about getting Wave lynched. His vote on him is completely meaningless too with no thread support and him not trying at all to get people on board the Wave train. He's never added anything to his initial case.[/QUOTE] See that's the thing about Palmar. He never seems concerned enough to do anything, ever. If you can somehow tell by meta that this is town/scum Palmar by all means but as far as in-thread confidence goes I still have him at least townier than null.[/QUOTE]I actually disagree. Palmar knows that if all he does is troll, it will be somewhat hard to lynch him. Instead, Palmar started reading the game and making actual cases (cases which I don't think were all that good, but they were definitely serious cases). I don't think that these cases help Palmar at all, in fact they might actually hurt him, I think that really his motivation was to find scum (even if not enough to make him play the game properly). Quick question, his reason to scumread WaveofShadow wasn't the initial reason that he forgot, right? It was a different reason? | ||
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His reason to scumread WaveofShadow (WaveofShadow wasn't interested in his alignment) is actually true. However, I have the impression that WaveofShadow gets angry a lot, so this would be an expected response from WaveofShadow. Regardless of this, it still doesn't make WaveofShadow scum. His scumread on yamato77 (associative bit aside) wasn't bad either. It still doesn't make yamato77 scum, though. I suppose I feel like he did those things at random times. Maybe I'm wrong, and he posted these when he needed to, to survive. Or maybe Artanis is right and he knows what he needs to do to survive, and he posted these to cut off suspicion before it began. | ||
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Specifically, why did people stop scumreading yamato77? | ||
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On April 26 2015 07:41 Damdred wrote: If you didn't explain this already, why did you say this? (if you did, I'll find it eventually, no need to respond, sorry)I was rereading Yamatos filter, and I really really like this post. and exchange | ||
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spoiler explains my vote guardians, breshke looked town 4 content + reads not tone ml due 2 poe list | ||
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On April 27 2015 09:23 Damdred wrote: Reads that I really, really disagree with.You have 10 sentences to explain why Once I finish catching up and filter dive you, if I decide it's significant, I'll elaborate. Not before then, for obvious reasons. Also, I have a final tomorrow morning, so I may not get to it until after that. | ||
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Guess I need to look at it again later. | ||
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Student Mafia VIII just ended. I can talk about it now. This game was ridiculously depressing. Not only were my reads wrong for basically the entire game, but I managed to irritate most of the people in the game. My efforts to drive discussion and make things happened only led to more people scumreading me, more people getting mad, and fewer people enjoying reading the game. It ended with me being shot by the vigilante on Night 1. Still, I managed to make the game environment miserable and make several townies extremely mad. If people don't want to play with me, then I don't want to play, either. It's not about winning, it's about having fun, and I can't play if that prevents other people from having fun. So in the midst of this, I scumread yamato77, and posted a case containing my reasons. And then everyone starts yelling at me and calling it a miserable case, and calling me mafia for it. A short while later, a bunch of people decide that yamato77 is mafia, for very similar reasons to ones that I mentioned in my case (apparently I said it really poorly). And yamato77 reached four votes, none of them being me. No, I'm not playing my best this game. And I'm sorry for that, you guys deserve me to play at my best, especially with the player quality being so high in this game. But I'm doing what I can, and when it gets ignored like this, I'm not happy. If you're going to scumread me, look at the thoughts I've been putting out first. I'm not one to drive discussion, I've tried to do this many times in the past. It doesn't work out for me, I've lost every single one of the games where I tried to lead discussion, and I was often scumread for doing so. My activity hasn't been very good this game, and for that I'm also sorry. I just ask that people wouldn't ignore me, and actually give my thoughts a fair chance. | ||
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On April 26 2015 06:07 Damdred wrote: One of many examples of false meta on me.Maybe I have a warped view of trfel, but the ability to press his reads and to drive them take precedence over almost anything else in the thread when he is actually involved in the thread. Guardians, the student mafia games. And his scum games always lacks that, even if hes wrong he always pushes. Here...hes always second guessing himself on everything he puts out it feels like. On April 26 2015 06:23 Damdred wrote: Bad argument (unflipped association read).I think that you are really wrong on breshke though. If you think Yamato is scum, do you really see scum breshke going for the bus in this situation? On April 26 2015 07:20 Damdred wrote: Why can't we worry about this every 24 hours? If we have a lynch, then lynch. If not, then don't.Also, since i'm actually trying to be involved I think we as a thread need to just go ahead and say we are making all days 72 hours. We are automatically losing 24 hours of information due to the silent nights. If we extend our lynching cycle by 24 hours unless hapa says otherwise we should just add an extra 24 hours to what we would normally do. So we should lynch tomorrow at this time. It extends the game but we get more information in the same amount of cycles I think. On April 26 2015 07:41 Damdred wrote: I don't like this exchange at all. Yamato77 was pressuring something that wasn't very relevant, past the point where Artanis proved his intention to be the opposite. Yamato77 kept up the pressure until Artanis specifically stated that his first quote wasn't entirely true, despite heavily implying this for quite some time.I was rereading Yamatos filter, and I really really like this post. and exchange On April 26 2015 07:49 Damdred wrote: At least now that Artanis has explained it, his post on me was pretty good. Even if you misread it as I did (I would hope you didn't), you still see Artanis providing a ton of quotes and then clearly stating, this read progression doesn't make sense from a town perspective, therefore Trfel is scum.There is not a fundamental difference in how to play mafia even if you aren't spending 10 hours in a game. You can convince people to vote on the person you want even if you spend 5 posts in a given phase doing so, rather than half heartidly putting shade on people as has been done previously. For example X shouldnt' be the lynch it should be Y. Is all fine and good if its met with any substantial post explaining why exactly that person is scum which doesn't take a substantial amount of time to do. For example you quoted my read on truffle and then quoted his posts but drew no conclussions at all from my post, nor the implications of what that means. This is a major red flag, nor do you give any real explanation on why they should lynch me just that I am full of fluff and my reads aren't as intricate. That is not a good reason o lynch someone What I missed, however, were all the rest of your posts. But they were actually quite good, and you clearly put a ton of effort into solving the game. I just feel that scum are playing really well this game. I have good reasons to townread every player. It's quite frustrating. Currently, the only real reason that I'm suspicious of Artanis is for his Damdred read. He did very well in Guardians by reading Damdred as town for his long, detailed analysis posts. However, Damdred saw that read, so it isn't valid any more, and Artanis should know that. Here is a detailed vote count analysis post that Damdred made as mafia. Also, here is a town Damdred filter where he does not make any long posts at all. By this point, Artanis ought to know that he can't read Damdred like this any more. Does it make him scum? I'm not sure. I need to filter dive him tomorrow, but I think he's most likely town. By "weakest townreads", I arrive at a lynch pool of yamato77, Breshke, and Palmar. Though I know that's a horrid way to play. I have my exam in seven hours, I need some sleep. I'll start there tomorrow. | ||
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WaveofShadow has seemed really towny, but if I'm wrong on one of my townreads it's probably him. I really doubt I want to lynch him today, but I'll take a look at what you guys are saying. | ||
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On April 28 2015 05:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I will do so. Are you going to stick around until the lynch? Because it would be great to have someone to discuss things with, I haven't really interacted with people for a while in this game.Please let me know what you find because the discussion leading up to the lynch today is pretty abysmal. | ||
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How does one going about catching you, if you are mafia? | ||
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On April 22 2015 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote: And there's still yamato who's done mostly shit all but be belligerent with me lately. (I'd call him town because his current not caring about the game currently is extremely town yamato but meta so fuck that) | ||
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On April 21 2015 12:08 WaveofShadow wrote: He basically calls yamato77's play scummy, and then talks to him as if he is confirmed town. Throughout this whole early game argument with yamato77 and others, he never takes the next step to use it to investigate people's alignments, until yamato77 asks him. And then he basically gives the very same reads he started out with.They were real reads before I realized the premise was wrong. And why the fuck do I have to call you town? Why are you fishing for townreads from me yamato? You're behaving so oddly, and it's not even your normal hyper-aggressive early game push that Im used to. I just wanted to wreck scum with you for once. Just once. Apparently it was too much to ask. From there, he keeps probing and discussing. He asks some good questions, but he doesn't really push anything.He has a lot of reads, including suspicion on me (Trfel), yamato77, and Blazinghand, but he isn't pushing them that much. However, at this time there hasn't been a good chance for a lynch, so maybe he wouldn't push until closer to the deadline. On April 22 2015 23:53 WaveofShadow wrote: What about his own read on me? He's mentioned it a few times in his filter to this point.Assuming BH is scum think the other scum might be Trfel but I havent had a chance to flesh that out much. Artanis' read on him is OK but relies way too much on meta for my liking. On April 23 2015 06:54 WaveofShadow wrote: I make a point about Blazinghand, which from WaveofShadow's posts, he would disagree with. But he doesn't discuss this with me, instead he uses meta to cast suspicion on my Blazinghand scumread based on my reasoning. He's basically poking holes in everyone else's Blazinghand vote while still voting for Blazinghand himself, and I'm not sure why he would do this.Meta, but I have lynched him twice before as town with zero resistance. I have also seen him put up a ridiculous fight as town when I was scum in Les Mafia. BH plays how he wants and changes how he plays each game as he pleases. I asked him a question he never responded to: if he was Wade Fell, a smurf where he went super aggro town, or Old Partner, a smurf where he played pretty damn well as scum but fake claimed and got caught by killing the role he fake claimed. The way that WaveofShadow interacts with me here looks really bad to me. However, it has been recently pointed out to me that I am terribly biased against those who scumread me and favor those who townread me. Here's my thinking of why his stance on me is bad, but it's very possible that I am wrong, so I would like input from others. He's basically saying that he doesn't understand how this post comes from town at all. He says that I'm trying to falsely portray yamato77 as mafia, but didn't bring up the best points on him that were brought up previously. He provides a reason for why I could be town because of this, but discounts it entirely for a nonsense reason. And finally, instead of asking me about this, he asks rsoultin, as if I am incapable of defending myself (which if he believes this is true, validates the reason that he just discounted for townreading me). This post doesn't actually look like he is trying to figure out my alignment. On April 26 2015 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote: This flip on yamato77 happens fairly quickly after he moved him from sure scum to null (for yamato77's posting at the start of Day 2). WaveofShadow said that yamato77's activity often dropped off, and here is effectively voting him purely for inactivity (at least since the nullread earlier).Where did I do this? And no in my experience meta is shit terrible, and I am certainly not marv, one of very few people who can maybe attempt to use it correctly. essentially the call is are we feeling lynchy or do we wait for yamato And frankly by the time 48h rolls around im always feeling lynchy I want to see a flip so I'll sheep rsoul ##unvote ##vote: yamato77 On April 26 2015 12:17 WaveofShadow wrote: WARNING: META Yamato's activity falls off in pretty much any game, but as scum it's just likely to be a hell of a lot more fall-off-y. As town he usually has some sort of catalyst that brings him back into the game whether pressure/scum lynch/something crazy happening and as scum that doesn't exist and he more or less gives up/shits things up as you said. This game has moved pretty slowly thus far and it's hard to tell here which is which even were I to use meta. The other thing about mini mafia 2 is he's probably super demoralized from it for losing the game at LYLO. On April 26 2015 11:00 WaveofShadow wrote: So, I'm his biggest scumread, and have been so for a while. But he's not pushing me, and not trying to find out about me. All he's doing is whining about other players' reads on me using meta, while not reiterating why my play is inherently scummy. And he's rehashing pointless arguments instead of actual reasons that I am mafia.BTW, it's shit like this that made me question Trfel about 100 times. It didn't take me that long to go through the posts I had missed/skimmed, so why does it take him hours to read like 3 pages when he says he's doing it? If anyone's around I'm up to talk, though apparently my timing is shit compared to everyone else's. Gonna reread Trfel/Breshke/Damdred/Artanis in the meantime. WaveofShadow's reads have been rather static, as well. The main change is his going back on his solid townread on Breshke, but I believe this read was changed after the thread sentiment. Early on, WaveofShadow's play was quite good, but it did drop off lately (before his pre-announced activity drop). His reads were initially good, but he hasn't been really driving the discussion, investigating, or changing his reads to reflect new information. I'm not really sure what to think, given how good his play was earlier and how it changed. I really think that I'd like to see WaveofShadow respond before I could lynch him. Given how active he's been, and how he played earlier in the game, I can't lynch him when he said he would be less active without giving him a fair chance to respond first. | ||
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I'll probably be back before End of Day, but no guarantees. Sorry. I don't want to lynch Artanis, and I don't want to lynch yamato77. Haven't gotten to Breshke yet. WaveofShadow could be a good lynch here, but I don't want to turn on him so quickly after the way he played for the earlier portion of this game. I could vote for him if someone is very convincing, but I'd probably just want to wait. | ||
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We probably ought to lynch tomorrow, then, if we can settle by then. I think we ought to. | ||
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On April 28 2015 07:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I thought that your scumread on me was a weaker read. When you explained it, it actually made a lot of sense. Since then, you've been doing reasonable things and pushing good things. It's possible that you are mafia here, but it would take some work to find out. And I haven't done that work yet.I kind of favour waiting another day as well with both Wave and a large number of other players basically being afk for the whole of today. I also want to make sure wave replies rather than getting lynched whilst afk. On that note: ##Unvote Trfel, can you talk to me about people other than Wave too? It's neat that you don't want to lynch me but I'm curious as to the why. You asked me how to find out if I were scum. Did you do any research on your own after that? | ||
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On April 28 2015 09:03 Hapahauli wrote: I feel insulted....I have subjectively determined that little progress is being made in this game. I'll be imposing a 3-cycle cap to this day. You have 72 hours to lynch, or the day will end in a no-lynch. It's okay, mafia isn't going to kill me, so at least I have a lot of time to get my game together. | ||
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I'm not the only player who's said this. I'm just thinking that if it's this hard to find scum, it's far less reliable to scumread people for having fewer scumreads, or not pushing their scumreads (Breshke, WaveofShadow, to a lesser extent yamato77). And I'm really not sure what to do about that... I almost wish we had Blazinghand in the game, RNG pushing everyone. Perhaps at this point that would actually be a good strategy. | ||
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On April 28 2015 11:29 Breshke wrote: Since you agree with me, what do you think/hope that town and you specifically (two separate questions) can do about it?This is a very very understanding post. The way I see it the lynch today will either be myself, wave or yamato maybe art on this list but i dont think so. I think it would be better to focus on these three (myself, wave yamato) and decide who we want to lynch because no lynching would be fairly bad. As for my opinion I obviously do not want to lynch myself and I still want to lynch yamato. | ||
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The main thing that I have a problem with in your play is that I don't really feel that you have been pushing your scumreads that hard. Do you mind explaining this for me? Thanks! | ||
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Normally, when I think of Breshke, the first thing that comes to mind is that he has some really good townreads. I'm just always impressed by what he comes up with. But I'm not so sure that I see this here.
I really like Breshke, and I do feel bad for mislynching him in Guardians, but I just don't see the insightful reads that I normally do. So he could be a good lynch here after all. | ||
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On April 28 2015 12:44 rsoultin wrote: Nope, I don't think you need to read it.heh truffle's case is more or less what i've been saying all game so i'm not sure that i even need to read it o.0 maybe he'll present it in a better way though I think that the one thing I found that was actually notable was the way he dealt with the Blazinghand lynch near the deadline, though that's probably been mentioned already. | ||
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On April 28 2015 12:45 Breshke wrote: And that is the hole in the argument.Also the doubt in the scumreads thing is kinda similar to guardians where yeah i have doubt but I don't really have space to show it. Ended up me pushing for at least one town lynch in guardians so maybe I should rethink that. Sorry, it's a new thing I've been trying, to not put explanations in people's mouths, even if it seems darn obvious. | ||
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On April 27 2015 20:51 Palmar wrote: Breshke, Palmar didn't flip on yamato77. He just decided that WaveofShadow was a better lynch.I don't townread him. I just think it's less likely he's mafia than you, hence I moved my vote. | ||
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I don't know, Breshke. I just don't know. I need to head out now, I'll check the thread in a bit. I do think I need to read yamato77 again, since both WaveofShadow and Breshke want to lynch him, and he's one of the three unofficial "lynch candidates". | ||
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I'll look at the posts that WaveofShadow and Artanis are townreading Breshke for. | ||
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On April 28 2015 12:48 Breshke wrote: I don't really understand this stance at all. Breshke has explained it clearly enough, but I don't see town having this perspective.Oh and the BH stuff basically I wanted to lynch him that day but would have understood if someone didn't as we probably would have ended up lynching him anyway so if someone voting him wanted to unvote and give it more time i was fine with that but I didn't feel like i needed more time myself. I also think I was reading most of the people on the wagon town at the time aswell Do others understand Breshke's stance here? | ||
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STOP ARGUING It's really not something you need to be arguing about. WaveofShadow's perspective Breshke and Trfel are somewhat similar, however Breshke has made several posts that I can't see scum making while Trfel has not. rsoultin's perspective Breshke and Trfel are somewhat similar, however Trfel has produced some original content while Breshke has not. Settled? | ||
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On April 28 2015 13:26 WaveofShadow wrote: What did I miss in this post?No it's not because that point is shit if that's what rsoul is saying. Breshke has produced absolutely plenty. | ||
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On April 28 2015 13:40 Breshke wrote: Hm, who was the push on? And why?This isn't directed at me but there was one of my pushes you missed which might be the reason ive been off this game At the moment, were I to vote, I think I would vote for Breshke. But I need to check the points that WaveofShadow mentions first. I think I'll need to spend quite some time working on this tomorrow to really decide the best lynch. | ||
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On April 22 2015 14:39 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't see why this post makes Breshke town at all. Breshke commented on something that rsoultin said that was really, really strange. I don't really think it's alignment indicative so much as just weird, and I don't see why this is hard for Breshke to say.Really like this post. Breshke you town bro? Like....this explanation for the oddness really isn't enough. You go from 'slightly less townread' on yamato to full on scum setting you up, and the paranoia doesn't look real. The rage might be though, and it would be hypocritical of me to assume otherwise. On April 23 2015 08:54 WaveofShadow wrote: And you only mention one reason to townread Breshke before jumping to completely trusting him.I would post something but I am never the night kill. I dunno. Look into yamato trfel and maybe palmar? Also can't help but paranoia on rsoul but that's probably last resort actually there are very few people i do completely trust now that i think of it. Artanis and breshke. And then a bunch of doubting the Breshke townread. And then this. On April 26 2015 10:58 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't understand why WaveofShadow townreads Breshke for the first quoted post, I think it's actually somewhat scummy. But the phrase "Might want to see some real stuff when he comes back though. Like really real." stands out to me quite a bit. I will see how he follows through with this.I know I'm like octupleposting here so I'll try to put all my thoughts into this last one. I still really hate how everybody's reads on Trfel all seem to be meta-based. Damdred's, Rsouls, Artanis's (mostly). It's like nobody attempts to read the guy based on what he has done within this game, and that's what really bugs me about meta use. All it takes is one game for scum to pick up on what they know you know about them and they turn it against you, even IF you were right 100% of the time before that. Ehhhhh I find this post hard to come from scum tbh. The others too. Except for this one...just rubs me the wrong way a little even if it's true. Can't explain that one exactly. It just looks like a post that is specifically tailored to make him look good? I dunno. Probably wouldn't lynch breshke today though. Might want to see some real stuff when he comes back though. Like really real. I commented on this and I don't agree. At this point I'm not entirely sure why I'm defending him though because he really has done shit all aside from a few good posts and a couple things I think are hard to come from scum. Bleh. Still seems like best lynch overall. Damdred v Artanis I think I need more time. Artanis is hard. On April 28 2015 11:47 WaveofShadow wrote: But this was only for a short while, and has been reversed? I don't really understand why this results in a townread. Breshke is a strong enough player to push rsoultin.I agree with this and I am not flipping Breshke today because the only person pushing has been rsoul and I don't think her case has any merit. Oh wow I forgot about Damdred completely. Uh.,..that in itself weirds me out. Did he do stuff today? I guess my conclusion is that WaveofShadow's townread on Breshke doesn't make sense to me at all, at least not with the explanations he provided. | ||
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I just keep going back and forth between WaveofShadow and Breshke. I guess maybe I could even lynch yamato77, but probably not. Hopefully when I'm more awake I'll have better thoughts. | ||
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I am underwhelmed. | ||
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##vote WaveofShadow I really, really, really hope I'm right. | ||
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On April 29 2015 02:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I am willing to lynch Breshke.And I lied, I'm not going to check Breshke today because not enough people want to lynch him. I will check Yamato though. I would appreciate it if you checked Breshke? | ||
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On April 29 2015 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: But there are a few holes that I see in this.I think I might actually want to lynch Yamato. Going through a few of his towngames he comments on so many more things than he has this game, where he's been really fixated on a very small amount of things (BH whom he didn't really have a strong read on one way or the other but still comments on, the thing I commented on regarding Palmar/BH, and later just tunneling on me with a passerby comment on Trfel until I'm no longer a popular target when he just jumps the bandwagon onto Wave). It feels like his radar is much smaller than it usually is on towngames. I scrolled through Guilty, for example, and pretty much every post comments on someone else. LXVII, same thing though less so. Devil, same thing. Problem is that his play isn't really similar to his last scumgame where he tried either (Survivor). However, I'd argue that Yamato has commented on how much he's disliked playing scum (it's in the big post at the end of Survivor). I'd also argue that his focus on small things/singular people is easier to do than his usual towngame. It also feels very convenient how his reads match town sentiment all the time, swapping to lynching Wave as soon as I'm no longer a viable target. First, I don't think that it is inherently anti-town to focus on one thing at a time and jump around like yamato77 has been doing. What really matters is how you evaluate and consider everything at the key times (approaching a lynch), and yamato77 seems to be willing to consider everything when he is evaluating potential lynches. As for following the thread sentiment and not commenting on as much, it is a smaller game, and it is a slower game. To be honest, I don't feel like there is generally much to talk about that isn't the "thread sentiment". So while this doesn't look good for yamato77, and I could see myself lynching him, I can't confidently say that this makes him scum. Sort of like how I can't confidently scumread Breshke for having no unique pushes this game. On January 18 2015 12:43 Breshke wrote: In addition to Breshke being cautious with his scumreads, this is a hard game.None its shit i know. I'm going through and rereading again, especially the longer posts like geripts because i didn't really read them well. Who is your biggest scum right now? | ||
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And his inactivity as of late is suspicious as well. I guess I just have a really hard time seeing how meta applies so specifically to this game. And thus WaveofShadow is probably the best lynch using only simple meta that would still apply to a 9 player, slow game. | ||
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On April 29 2015 03:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yamato's recent analyses of you and WaveofShadow were actually fairly good. And he was being reasonable.There's a difference between only commenting on things that town sentiment is talking about and literally following all of thread sentiment. I don't think Yamato has swayed from it in anything other than BH, but even then he didn't push it in any real way which actually makes him look worse. The only thing that actually makes me doubt on him is the way he treated me and took a reasonable approach regarding me. It felt kinda townie, but I can't ignore the rest of the game. His inactivity is concerning, and he has been jumping around in his focus, but I just can't feel comfortable lynching him.... Part of me just wants to lynch all three (Breshke, WaveofShadow, and yamato77) and hope that both scum are between them. I'm just having such a hard time getting significantly more confident in any one lynch. | ||
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On April 29 2015 03:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Breshke was among my strongest townreads in Student VII (I replaced in) for having a ton of great townreads and insightful comments.If you could point out some of the original thoughts he had in Guardians that he feels lacking in here that'd help a lot, though I can imagine it's difficult to point them out after the game. Yes, it's a student game, but I haven't seen a single instance of these insightful comments from Breshke in this game. He's been sensible, but not inspiring. | ||
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This post is pretty good too. Here, he makes an observation and finds something suspicious. And that's just in his first page of filter. I guess that game isn't necessarily the best example, as his posting rate was so low and he was behind the thread for most of it, but I noticed the same thing to a much higher degree in Student VII. | ||
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For most of this game, WaveofShadow has been frustrated and mad, or at least seemed that way to me. Since he started being scumread, his tone became very reasonable and withdrawn, he didn't feel frustrated at all (the notable exception being his argument with rsoultin). But that seems to be a strange difference for me. One possible explanation is that he spent most of this time discussing with me (who apparently he has decided is extremely weak and sensitive, thus he can't show frustration or I will go cry to my mommy). But I'm not sure that I buy this, so I wonder if that makes him look more scummy. | ||
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On April 29 2015 04:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Well, that was when he was fighting with rsoultin, and I don't really see how WaveofShadow would possibly not be angry there.Did you not feel that towards the end of his filter yesterday he was becoming much more angry? Also, don't get me wrong, I still find Wave very suspicious and I'm actually quite torn between Wave/Yamato. On April 28 2015 12:11 WaveofShadow wrote: This is probably the quote that stands out the most, I think. I basically make a comment that most would find insulting (even though I worded it really cautiously), and WaveofShadow responds completely reasonably and open. He isn't frustrated at all.Look at the times I've been around and what I've talked about. Before I very recently townread you, look at all the posts I've made about you, and the times rsoul responded to me. That was all pushing you. I also pushed yamato yesterday. (And for the record not pushing a scumread 'that hard' isn't in itself a good scumread imo, but whatevs) Whether or not you or the rest of the thread 'feels' like I've been doing it doesn't really matter a great deal to me. I mean the only thing I suppose I can admit to is that my timing hasn't been amazing and the times I have been around while other people were, I sort of joined discussion where I could. | ||
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But if it were up to me.... Breshke is the "safe" lynch, in that I don't feel he has done strong pushes or been driving the thread at any point. But while he hasn't been leading the thread, and he hasn't been inspiring, he's still been reasonable. I'm just not convinced that he is mafia, though, but I'm also not sure if more time would help. WaveofShadow has been doing lots of things, and he has the second longest filter in the game. His tone generally feels natural (except for recently), and he's been making some good reads and comments. However, he hasn't been pushing his reads with that much force, seems slightly apathetic towards lynches, and has a strong townread on Breshke which I really don't understand at all. Not sure that more time will help much with him, either, because he is busy now. Yamato77 has been jumping at a bunch of different scumreads, and focuses only on one thing at a time. He doesn't seem to follow up with these scumreads very much at all. Still, his analysis has largely been good, and his tone is very reasonable. Apparently his reads have only been following the thread sentiment, though I haven't fact-checked this yet (particularly early on in the game, it felt that when he was in the thread, he was driving the thread sentiment). I feel like whatever decision I make will end up being the wrong one. But for now I still just feel a bit more confident in WaveofShadow being mafia than the others. | ||
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On April 29 2015 08:08 Breshke wrote: Yeah, I feel the same way, but I demonstrated the same points in Guardians of the Galaxy. I try to use meta in really general ways.Also trfel you shouldnt compare my pla in a student game to normal games I find it a lot easier to try be a big player when im not one of the least experienced. You know, I might actually want to switch to yamato77. | ||
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On April 23 2015 08:12 yamato77 wrote: Yamato77, can you please explain this quote? From Day 1, near the lynch deadline.I'll freely admit I don't have a better lynch at this second but it's not really important to, at this point | ||
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##unvote ##vote yamato77 | ||
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On April 29 2015 08:17 yamato77 wrote: There's a very good reason.I don't want to be a dick but this is truly pointless I just want to see reactions before I share it. | ||
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On April 22 2015 06:13 yamato77 wrote: The start of yamato77's first push on Artanis.artanis, is this seriously your plan this game? On April 22 2015 06:39 yamato77 wrote: Follows up with his vote.so you freely admit you don't actually care to play the game beyond wasting time waiting for Palmar/BH? alright ##unvote ##Vote: Artanis On April 23 2015 07:28 yamato77 wrote: More things he doesn't like about Artanis.I don't like Artanis' post where he comments on the case offhandedly and then votes trfel On April 23 2015 07:39 yamato77 wrote: Something good about Artanis.And something else bad about Artanis.Artanis! Seems like you and I have the same problem with trfel, haha. Now, look at his comments on the Blazinghand lynch. On April 23 2015 07:27 yamato77 wrote: alright, so the BH case in and of itself isn't really that bad honestly, the BH that does this whole martyring thing has been town in the past I've also seen him be scum and use delay tactics, but is this really a delay tactic? I'm unsure about this lynch, bros On April 23 2015 08:12 yamato77 wrote: So Artanis, who he is still voting for, and shared all these suspicions of, is not a better lynch than Blazinghand (who he really doesn't seem to want to lynch)?I'll freely admit I don't have a better lynch at this second but it's not really important to, at this point Blazinghand gets lynched. Start of Day 2, yamato77 posts this. On April 24 2015 10:13 yamato77 wrote: So Artanis looks pretty bad, for reasons that existed at the end of Day 1, but wasn't a better lynch than Blazinghand?But all that's really here nor there. It's a different day now. I still think Artanis looks pretty bad. Thoughts on wagon were subpar The only possibility I see for this being town motivated is that yamato77 was doing a pressure on Artanis, not a serious scumread. This is doubtful given this post above. And when I asked yamato77 about this recently, here is his answer. On April 29 2015 08:15 yamato77 wrote: So maybe the pressure on Artanis was just a pressure all along, and never actually a scumread? I really don't see any other possibility, it's either this or yamato77 is mafia.don't need to find a better lynch than BH when you can just extend the day and work toward finding one it's really simple On April 29 2015 08:32 yamato77 wrote: And so it wasn't a pressure vote.I went over this he looked better because of you. your reads on the two of us were similar and we both took offense to them in similar ways, it was kinda townie not super strong, but enough to make me doubt Yamato's read progression is as follows:
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On April 29 2015 08:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Enough to make him specifically state that he had no better lynch?Trfel, the town alternative for Yamato I can see there is that he simply didn't really want to see BH lynched and that was his primary thought focus at the time. | ||
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On April 29 2015 08:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote: He never did.I dunno. If he didn't follow it up with pushing me again before the lynch it does look pretty bad. I can imagine him not pushing me as alternative instantly, but he should realize it at some point before the lynch. His Day 1 was just like: WaveofShadow is suspicious Artanis is mafia Maybe Artanis isn't mafia? Artanis looks pretty suspicious Don't lynch Blazinghand Don't lynch Blazinghand! No follow through on WaveofShadow or Artanis at all... But I suppose his explanation does have some merit. That's not how I read his post at all, but I guess maybe I could see it anyway. Ugh. | ||
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On April 29 2015 08:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: He hasn't been caring for a while. And he cares only when he's at risk of being lynched.Meh, I think I just want to stay on Wave as Yamato cares too much atm. It's been 48 hours since yamato77 was seriously scumhunting (and his content was fairly good then, but still...). Were WaveofShadow mafia, I would think that mafia would jump all over this. I conclude that if WaveofShadow is mafia, then his partner is either not voting for him or isn't here. Which isn't very useful at all. | ||
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Also, ##unvote ##vote WaveofShadow Yamato77's explanation is plausible, I suppose, even though I really don't like it. | ||
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On April 29 2015 08:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: And Damdred isn't here, so it doesn't matter. Like I said, it didn't end up with any useful information.There's only one other mafia player though. If it's Palmar, he can't really move off Wave given how he'd have been bussing him all game. If it's Breshke, he's already voting Yamato. The argument only really works for Damdred I think. Oh well, here's hoping that WaveofShadow is actually mafia. | ||
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On April 29 2015 08:51 Breshke wrote: Breshke confirmed.Is it bad that im really hoping wave flips town here | ||
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rsoultin Artanis Probably Town Palmar Damdred Maybe Mafia Breshke yamato77 Hoping for the best. In all likelihood, see you tomorrow. | ||
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I'm still pretty happy about the lynch yesterday ![]() I need to look again to see if this makes Artanis confirmed town, but I don't think that it does. It does look extremely good for him, despite all of the earlier reasons I had to townread him, but I suppose he could do this as mafia. That really just leaves Breshke, yamato77, and Palmar. One good townread would even be enough to win the game. For now, I'm kind of leaning towards Palmar being the most town still. I suppose with a two player scum team, I feel like scum could be extremely strange in their interactions. It makes me think that trying to use association reads is extremely dangerous. Anyway, I probably won't be here for the deadline tomorrow (or the day after that, maybe even...). I'm moving, I should be able to be online enough, just at random times. Sorry. | ||
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On April 30 2015 10:15 Breshke wrote: I could easily see scum trying to take a town out of the lynch pool.Yeah your right. So you think my play as scum is to limit the lynch to me my scumbuddy and one town? First, it looks good for them (less playing for survival). Second, they get to pocket someone. Third, it all depends on the thread position, and I don't think that Breshke no longer being an option affected WaveofShadow's chances of being lynched that much. | ||
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On April 30 2015 10:28 rsoultin wrote: I don't think that WaveofShadow insisting that Breshke wasn't lynched had anything to do with this.lol umm considering the two voting for bresh ended up voting for wave i think your assessment is off truffle It's not like WaveofShadow could have flipped and started scumreading Breshke there, anyway. | ||
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If I can't play very much over the next day or so, I'll make it up after. | ||
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I'm sorry, I don't have time to truly analyze (or the energy to properly read the last few pages). If you need my vote for something, I'll try to check in before my plane flight tomorrow, otherwise I will hopefully be online before the deadline. I'm really sorry, I'll do analysis and try to make up for it in the next cycle. Off the top of my head, it feels to me that while Palmar could be doing this as scum, it could be surprisingly hard to replicate a playstyle created by not caring whatsoever. Trying to care and seem to not care is not so easy. I'd believe much more in Breshke being mafia, or yamato77 being able to fool me. | ||
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On May 02 2015 12:12 Breshke wrote: Making activity excuses at this point in the game?My internet is fucked and wont be fixed until tonight or tomorrow morning wont really be doing much here until then Sorry for delays That's just poor form, and extremely disrespectful. I think that Breshke needs to get policy lynched for this. ![]() | ||
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I'll get to this sometime before the deadline, I hope. | ||
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On May 03 2015 04:44 Palmar wrote: I think that's what I want to do, but I have a good bit of reading I want to do first.Can we just lynch Yamato and get it over with. Please please please please please please please | ||
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##vote Breshke | ||
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On May 03 2015 06:37 rsoultin wrote: What do you mean, negotiate?you don't count xP i only negotiate with stubborn palmars I don't negotiate with town, just wait for night and then kill them. | ||
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The main point against Breshke is the lack of original thought and original pushes from him. I also notice a lot of instances of Breshke justifying his own play where it isn't really necessary. Townies tend to be overly defensive, so I give him the benefit of the doubt (especially since he's been pushed for much of the game), but it just keeps looking worse and worse to me. + Show Spoiler + Here's an example of his first read of the game. On April 21 2015 09:34 Breshke wrote: His read was obviously tentative the first time, he didn't really need to clarify it in the second post. For a read that he seems to feel is this weak, he shouldn't really post it except to generate discussion (in which this final sentence really doesn't need to be added at all).Yeah haha all jokes aside in my limited experiance with art ive never seen him mention stats before so him referencing town stats and relating it to this game just seems like a weird way for a scum artanis to open. This is obviously very weak hence the tentative part. This example alone doesn't say very much, but there are many, many similar examples. Breshke just doesn't have the content production that I expect from him, either. He's mostly asking questions that don't seem to go anywhere. His questions are okay, but they don't provide enough insight to make up for analysis. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2015 10:50 Breshke wrote: What a weird read. Here's his thought process here.I really really like this post. Wave joins artanis in my "can't see lynching" list. If wave is mafia his frustration this game is from him being wagoned early so being on the back foot trying to survive from the get go. The stuff about yamato's push is not really alignment indicative for him even though I fully agree with his view point. I'm not sure if i can explain this well but the last sentence on rsoul seems like it couldnt come from a scum wave as why would he randomly antagonize someone. Like he is clearly frustrated and if he is frustrated scum he would be trying to make friends not trying to piss people off. I like this post from WaveofShadow, so I don't want to lynch him today. Here's a bunch of reasons that some scumreads on WaveofShadow aren't valid, as they are non alignment indicative. The wording "being on the back foot trying to survive from the get go" seems a bit strange, since town should never be playing to survive, but rather playing to catch scum. And then he actually mentions the quoted post, explaining why he thinks that it makes WaveofShadow town. But it's a rather weak read in my opinion. And this post just doesn't make sense from a town perspective to me at all. I also note that Breshke's explanations for his reads come upon request, generally not at the time he makes his reads. For someone who is so willing to justify himself, and for someone with good townreads, his townreads lack explanation even after questioned, but even moreso before. Breshke's stance on Blazinghand is really weird as well. His vote on Blazinghand is initially a policy vote, and then Blazinghand posts. Breshke's posts focused in "this case is bad, Blazinghand could have created this as scum", and then ended up not pushing Blazinghand at all, asking for more time for the lynch, but still wanting to lynch Blazinghand. I just don't understand how Breshke can want to lynch Blazinghand, but not enough to actually push for it, and want to delay the lynch for more, but not enough to unvote. I read Breshke's Day 1 filter. And to be honest, I don't really think that I need to read the rest of it. There are many things that I can't see coming from Breshke, and I have a much easier time seeing yamato77's play coming from town. Breshke and yamato77 are probably the best two lynches, but I think that lynching Breshke is by far the best choice. I'll try to check in when I can, but I may not be back much until End of Day. Either way, I don't think I want to lynch yamato77 before Breshke anyway, so if me not switching to yamato77 results in another cycle, then so be it. | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Talk quickly? Not sure I have much more time.I'm back and thought about the game a lot in the car and concluded yamato is roughly 95% mafia. Points to follow, should be in time for lynch but you can move your votes already if you want. | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't have a chance to fact check what you're saying, but I guess that makes sense. Hm, I still think that the Breshke lynch is pretty solid.Wave-Breshke as scum-scum also doesn't make sense because you have an experienced scum player in Wave and a pretty piss-poor scum player in Breshke and they hard townread each other. Sure, it's potentially a great tactic but how likely is it to actually occur? Not very imo. Also lots of genuine posts by Breshke in retarded things that I've pointed out. One that I haven't pointed out yet is how he instantly mentioned that he read Damdred as blue. I'd imagine scum would be a little more careful with stuff like that. Also, I don't think that you can infer much from the high-level interactions between the two players. It's possible that (as mafia) Breshke and WaveofShadow hard townread each other precisely because they didn't think we would expect it. One thing to check is, WaveofShadow did have an extremely poorly explained townread on Breshke. Did he make it seem more that way when it was getting clear he was dying (thus incriminating Breshke), or was it a weak townread all along? IE does it look like he's trying to incriminate Breshke or desperately defend him? Be back in a few minutes, then probably out until End of Day. | ||
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On May 03 2015 08:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yamato77 acted like that to everyone, though. Not specific to WaveofShadow.Coupled with the already weird Yamato-Wave interactions that Godmar pointed out before. | ||
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I guess I stay on Breskhe for now. If no lynching is necessary for this cycle, so be it. Lynching Breshke and yamato77 will most likely win the game, regardless of the order anyway. And with that in mind, it's just simpler to lynch Breshke first and not try and wake up Palmar. But don't let that change your decision. | ||
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Later tonight, I'll take a very detailed look at what Artanis has been saying. | ||
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I'm extremely confident that he is town. And he could very well be right. | ||
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I don't think that scum would avoid bussing because of where the scum power role lies. That isn't very important at all. If for town, roles are merely an aid to normal gameplay, I don't see why this would change from a mafia perspective. Also, the situation was three players in a lynch pool, with the only real other lynch being Palmar. If the scum team is in fact WaveofShadow and yamato77, and they pushed the lynch that day to mislynch Breshke, there's a fair chance that they would have been lynched in succession as a result. Have I thought about Artanis being mafia? Of course. I haven't shared all of my reasons for Artanis being town, there is no need to, he isn't in danger of being lynched. But the fluidity of his reads, the sense that he's provided, and the genuine feeling to his posts all look really good to me. He behaves in a manner that is supported by the expected emotions and his character. And I really don't think that Artanis would push WaveofShadow there (without checking the context, it just doesn't feel necessary at all). Could he be mafia? I suppose, maybe. But even this final push on yamato77 makes a lot of sense. I could see scum trying to change the lynch here, but the thing is that Artanis is actually backing it with good reasons and it feels very genuine to me. So that just looks even better to me. Artanis may be good at mafia, but I simply don't see him being mafia here, especially with Breshke and yamato77 looking this bad. | ||
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##vote yamato77 At least for now. I'll read his filter when I get the chance. | ||
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That works ![]() | ||
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