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Noir Mini Mafia: Chapter 3

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 20 2015 02:52 GMT
#9
What an interesting setup.

Very tempting.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 20 2015 03:58 GMT
#17
On April 20 2015 12:49 rsoultin wrote:
so many of my favorite people <3
-growls-
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 20 2015 04:22 GMT
#21
Oh, what the heck. Mafia is fun. Sorry for ruining your pristine player list.

/in
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 20 2015 14:25 GMT
#40
On April 20 2015 22:09 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2015 19:56 Breshke wrote:
I'm not sure if im ready to be the weak link in this player list haha.


-flops on-

we can be the weak link togetherz!
Hahahaha, pretty sure the weak link here is me XD
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 20 2015 14:50 GMT
#42
I'm sure that Artanis approves of the way you spelled his name. Please, don't change it.

I wasn't expecting this to start so quickly o.O But I will play anyway, it should be fun! Even if I am very much out of place.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 20 2015 15:16 GMT
#44
On April 21 2015 00:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2015 23:50 Trfel wrote:
I'm sure that Artanis approves of the way you spelled his name. Please, don't change it.

I wasn't expecting this to start so quickly o.O But I will play anyway, it should be fun! Even if I am very much out of place.

Actually, the spelling is fine, the capitalization is not.
He edited it.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 00:05 GMT
#55
Hello.

I have a nasty programming project (well, it's actually extremely basic, but I am terrible at programming, so it's driving me insane). I'll check back here when I am done with the project.

I know, activity excuses already.

Good luck, and happy scumhunting!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 05:28 GMT
#186
On April 21 2015 09:37 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 09:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
##vote: waveofshadow
I'm ok with any lynch that isn't me since I need to overtake kita in the not lynched as town percentage tab. Therefore, any lynch that is not me furthers this condition and I support this lynch.
##Vote WaveofShadow


why even include the bolded sentence when it's clear in the first lol ><

if anything that deserves a light scum lean, not a light town lean fitting awkwardly into the joking phase like that
On the contrary, that's the sentence that makes the joke. It's weak without it.

On April 21 2015 10:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 09:59 Breshke wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:55 Breshke wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:46 Breshke wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:37 rsoultin wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:34 Breshke wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:32 rsoultin wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:31 Breshke wrote:
[quote]

tentative town read for this post.


lol seriously? xP


Yeah haha all jokes aside in my limited experiance with art ive never seen him mention stats before so him referencing town stats and relating it to this game just seems like a weird way for a scum artanis to open.

This is obviously very weak hence the tentative part.


so you don't find it odd at all that he managed to enter with a post implying that he's town (via the stats comment) plus over-explaining what should be a joke-sheep of a joke-vote?

by over-explaining i mean:

On April 21 2015 09:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
##vote: waveofshadow
I'm ok with any lynch that isn't me since I need to overtake kita in the not lynched as town percentage tab. Therefore, any lynch that is not me furthers this condition and I support this lynch.
##Vote WaveofShadow


why even include the bolded sentence when it's clear in the first lol ><

if anything that deserves a light scum lean, not a light town lean fitting awkwardly into the joking phase like that


Ehh I disagree. I don't see it as that awkward or over explainy really. I didn't/don't really see it as awkward either. Nor do i really think that awkward always equals scum.


Do you think her reading into it in that way says anything about her alignment?


No because i can see how she would see it that way

I actually think it makes her slightly likelier to be town as I find it unlikely scum would go in against a tone read of another player right off the bat.


I have no way to prove this but i actually had it written that it was slightly townie because i find her to be a lot more neutral as scum

You get a tentative townread for this post. More free towncred to the first person to correctly point out why.
Mafia wouldn't bother with suggesting something and admitting that it can't be proved in the same post, this early on, when it doesn't matter like this. Right?

I find it extremely surprising how WaveofShadow reacted to Breshke's vote. As if the third vote is any scummier than the first two on a joke wagon. It just means that Breshke didn't think of it first, that's all. I'm hoping that he did this to generate discussion. However, it seems that WaveofShadow didn't realize that votes are only counted every 24 hours. I suppose his play makes sense with this in mind.

I actually think that this makes WaveofShadow likely to be town, as mafia would have realized this via the scum QT (which you bet he would be checking this early in the game, and with three votes on him). Of course he could fake it anyway, but his posts seem genuine enough (including the frustrated tone), so I kind of doubt that this is the case. And this also falls apart if his partner is inactive. Still, I see this more as a town play. He feels frustrated, not panicked. And trying to make the most of the situation, not trying to save himself.
On April 21 2015 12:04 rsoultin wrote:
lol i thought he was mocking truffle with his post :/ that would have been so clever
Not really, mocking me is quite easy. You've proved this time and time again.

WaveofShadow's play does show some inconsistencies (minor), and some things that don't make sense. But I see them being in line with him being flustered over the opening. If this continues, though, perhaps more suspicion is warranted.

Town read on rsoultin just because making a strong townread on her early in the game is super popular
+ Show Spoiler +
Not a strong townread, but she immediately started the game by aggressively discussing and pointing things out. I don't think that rsoultin would have played like this, she would have been more content to let yamato77 and WaveofShadow fight. Plus, toneread. Hence, town lean.
.

+ Show Spoiler [to rsoultin] +
I wonder how long it will take you to learn the patterns of my entrance posts. And no, it's not a "hello world" program. We haven't learned to output two words yet, so it's just a "hello" program. To be honest, I'm stuck on step 1: turn the computer on.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 17:37 GMT
#213
Hello.

I have to leave for an exam in maybe a half hour. I really need to study.

Would anyone care to distract me?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 20:41 GMT
#253
On April 22 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 05:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah jsut fucking do it already.
Every single game. Literally EVERY game I start i contribute in every possible way I can and people call me scum for it. It's so goddamn silly.

Like...fucking meta but show me one game where i don't complain.
ANY GAME.


when i call you scum, wave, you'll know it -flicks- talk to me about the truffle post. you're the one who wanted to talk about things
I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!

I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town,
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 20:48 GMT
#255
On April 22 2015 05:46 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 05:41 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah jsut fucking do it already.
Every single game. Literally EVERY game I start i contribute in every possible way I can and people call me scum for it. It's so goddamn silly.

Like...fucking meta but show me one game where i don't complain.
ANY GAME.


when i call you scum, wave, you'll know it -flicks- talk to me about the truffle post. you're the one who wanted to talk about things
I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!

I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town,


lol ><

the part about he'd know if he was looking at his scum QT and he definitely would check his scum QT and his scum partner definitely wouldn't be inactive? xP

oh yes, it was amazing, truffle

-golf claps-
Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!

In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:02 GMT
#260
On April 22 2015 05:49 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:46 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:41 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah jsut fucking do it already.
Every single game. Literally EVERY game I start i contribute in every possible way I can and people call me scum for it. It's so goddamn silly.

Like...fucking meta but show me one game where i don't complain.
ANY GAME.


when i call you scum, wave, you'll know it -flicks- talk to me about the truffle post. you're the one who wanted to talk about things
I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!

I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town,


lol ><

the part about he'd know if he was looking at his scum QT and he definitely would check his scum QT and his scum partner definitely wouldn't be inactive? xP

oh yes, it was amazing, truffle

-golf claps-
Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!

In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far?


in all seriousness? you're asking me about the one-post wonder?

-yawn-

talk to me about people who have been posting ^^
I suppose you're right, it's best for me to keep my thoughts about Blazinghand to myself for the time being. I hope that you are curious.

I suppose Artanis looks the most suspicious to me so far.
On April 22 2015 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm kind of in favour of waiting until BH and Palmar do something. We have all the time in the world this game, mind as well make them do some work.
Why didn't I make the list? Why is he so content to wait? I noticed that Artanis was probing with questions for information earlier, but lately he's dropped off, and now this quote.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:06 GMT
#263
On April 22 2015 06:03 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:02 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:49 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:46 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:41 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah jsut fucking do it already.
Every single game. Literally EVERY game I start i contribute in every possible way I can and people call me scum for it. It's so goddamn silly.

Like...fucking meta but show me one game where i don't complain.
ANY GAME.


when i call you scum, wave, you'll know it -flicks- talk to me about the truffle post. you're the one who wanted to talk about things
I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!

I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town,


lol ><

the part about he'd know if he was looking at his scum QT and he definitely would check his scum QT and his scum partner definitely wouldn't be inactive? xP

oh yes, it was amazing, truffle

-golf claps-
Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!

In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far?


in all seriousness? you're asking me about the one-post wonder?

-yawn-

talk to me about people who have been posting ^^
I suppose you're right, it's best for me to keep my thoughts about Blazinghand to myself for the time being. I hope that you are curious.

I suppose Artanis looks the most suspicious to me so far.
On April 22 2015 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm kind of in favour of waiting until BH and Palmar do something. We have all the time in the world this game, mind as well make them do some work.
Why didn't I make the list? Why is he so content to wait? I noticed that Artanis was probing with questions for information earlier, but lately he's dropped off, and now this quote.


what's the scum-motivation for this?
Imagine you are Artanis in this game. The game starts, you need to establish your thread presence, because that's what people expect of you. You start asking questions and probing, but the thread degenerates into random arguing and yelling, and is low on activity and quality. You've already contributed to the discussion and made your presence known, and if everyone else isn't going to make serious reads, there's no need to continue. Time to relax and sit back until town pulls itself together.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:11 GMT
#267
Waiting for rsoultin to respond before I respond...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:17 GMT
#272
On April 22 2015 06:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:06 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:03 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:02 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:49 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:46 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:41 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Yeah jsut fucking do it already.
Every single game. Literally EVERY game I start i contribute in every possible way I can and people call me scum for it. It's so goddamn silly.

Like...fucking meta but show me one game where i don't complain.
ANY GAME.


when i call you scum, wave, you'll know it -flicks- talk to me about the truffle post. you're the one who wanted to talk about things
I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!

I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town,


lol ><

the part about he'd know if he was looking at his scum QT and he definitely would check his scum QT and his scum partner definitely wouldn't be inactive? xP

oh yes, it was amazing, truffle

-golf claps-
Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!

In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far?


in all seriousness? you're asking me about the one-post wonder?

-yawn-

talk to me about people who have been posting ^^
I suppose you're right, it's best for me to keep my thoughts about Blazinghand to myself for the time being. I hope that you are curious.

I suppose Artanis looks the most suspicious to me so far.
On April 22 2015 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm kind of in favour of waiting until BH and Palmar do something. We have all the time in the world this game, mind as well make them do some work.
Why didn't I make the list? Why is he so content to wait? I noticed that Artanis was probing with questions for information earlier, but lately he's dropped off, and now this quote.


what's the scum-motivation for this?
Imagine you are Artanis in this game. The game starts, you need to establish your thread presence, because that's what people expect of you. You start asking questions and probing, but the thread degenerates into random arguing and yelling, and is low on activity and quality. You've already contributed to the discussion and made your presence known, and if everyone else isn't going to make serious reads, there's no need to continue. Time to relax and sit back until town pulls itself together.

Imagine you're Artanis in this game. You see two players that can be great as town doing fuck all. There is no hard deadline. You force them to participate by taking a back seat and take your time.
I give up. Rsoultin is slow, and she's probably town anyway.

I agree, you aren't forcing them to participate. Furthermore, in Palmar's case, he trolls quite often. As town. And it's not a weekend, so I don't know why you think more time would help. I skimmed your filter in Linux Mafia, and you didn't seem to mind Palmar's trolling all that much, I got the impression that you worked around it.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:18 GMT
#274
On April 22 2015 06:17 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:06 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:03 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:02 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:49 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:46 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:41 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote:
[quote]

when i call you scum, wave, you'll know it -flicks- talk to me about the truffle post. you're the one who wanted to talk about things
I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!

I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town,


lol ><

the part about he'd know if he was looking at his scum QT and he definitely would check his scum QT and his scum partner definitely wouldn't be inactive? xP

oh yes, it was amazing, truffle

-golf claps-
Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!

In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far?


in all seriousness? you're asking me about the one-post wonder?

-yawn-

talk to me about people who have been posting ^^
I suppose you're right, it's best for me to keep my thoughts about Blazinghand to myself for the time being. I hope that you are curious.

I suppose Artanis looks the most suspicious to me so far.
On April 22 2015 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm kind of in favour of waiting until BH and Palmar do something. We have all the time in the world this game, mind as well make them do some work.
Why didn't I make the list? Why is he so content to wait? I noticed that Artanis was probing with questions for information earlier, but lately he's dropped off, and now this quote.


what's the scum-motivation for this?
Imagine you are Artanis in this game. The game starts, you need to establish your thread presence, because that's what people expect of you. You start asking questions and probing, but the thread degenerates into random arguing and yelling, and is low on activity and quality. You've already contributed to the discussion and made your presence known, and if everyone else isn't going to make serious reads, there's no need to continue. Time to relax and sit back until town pulls itself together.

Imagine you're Artanis in this game. You see two players that can be great as town doing fuck all. There is no hard deadline. You force them to participate by taking a back seat and take your time.
I give up. Rsoultin is slow, and she's probably town anyway.

I agree, you aren't forcing them to participate. Furthermore, in Palmar's case, he trolls quite often. As town. And it's not a weekend, so I don't know why you think more time would help. I skimmed your filter in Linux Mafia, and you didn't seem to mind Palmar's trolling all that much, I got the impression that you worked around it.
EBWOP: I agree with WaveofShadow.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:23 GMT
#277
On April 22 2015 06:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:17 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:06 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:03 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:02 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:49 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:46 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 05:41 Trfel wrote:
[quote]I'll talk to you about the truffle post if you want!

I thought that it was a really well-constructed post. Especially the part about why WaveofShadow is town,


lol ><

the part about he'd know if he was looking at his scum QT and he definitely would check his scum QT and his scum partner definitely wouldn't be inactive? xP

oh yes, it was amazing, truffle

-golf claps-
Oh, why thank you! I always knew I was amazing, but now I know why!

In all seriousness, what do you make of Blazinghand so far?


in all seriousness? you're asking me about the one-post wonder?

-yawn-

talk to me about people who have been posting ^^
I suppose you're right, it's best for me to keep my thoughts about Blazinghand to myself for the time being. I hope that you are curious.

I suppose Artanis looks the most suspicious to me so far.
On April 22 2015 05:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm kind of in favour of waiting until BH and Palmar do something. We have all the time in the world this game, mind as well make them do some work.
Why didn't I make the list? Why is he so content to wait? I noticed that Artanis was probing with questions for information earlier, but lately he's dropped off, and now this quote.


what's the scum-motivation for this?
Imagine you are Artanis in this game. The game starts, you need to establish your thread presence, because that's what people expect of you. You start asking questions and probing, but the thread degenerates into random arguing and yelling, and is low on activity and quality. You've already contributed to the discussion and made your presence known, and if everyone else isn't going to make serious reads, there's no need to continue. Time to relax and sit back until town pulls itself together.

Imagine you're Artanis in this game. You see two players that can be great as town doing fuck all. There is no hard deadline. You force them to participate by taking a back seat and take your time.
I give up. Rsoultin is slow, and she's probably town anyway.

I agree, you aren't forcing them to participate. Furthermore, in Palmar's case, he trolls quite often. As town. And it's not a weekend, so I don't know why you think more time would help. I skimmed your filter in Linux Mafia, and you didn't seem to mind Palmar's trolling all that much, I got the impression that you worked around it.

None of the other games are comparable because they have hard deadlines. This game doesn't. That's a very big difference.

My play isn't very useful if you all put your attention on me though. Palmar trolls, but when he's at risk of getting lynched, he will play to his win condition. Same is true for BH (for the most part).
But I'm doubtful that it's worth stopping playing the game over?

You can play the game, promote discussion, and then decide to pressure or lynch Palmar anyway. You can play the game and let Blazinghand know that if he doesn't come back at the time he said he would, he will be lynched.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:27 GMT
#281
On April 22 2015 06:23 rsoultin wrote:
okay, truffle

so i'm scum artanis

my scum partner may or may not be one of bh or palmar, but can't be both

so i say let's wait until they do something rather than trying to push a hasty vote through? xP bh said he'd do something later if we give him some room...palmar's a coinflip...most day phases last 48 hours anyway and unless you've got someone you're super sure is scum i see no problem with pushing this out to a standard 48...

not saying it makes him town, but i don't see how it makes him scum. essentially you're keying in on something nai. again
Um, you completely missed the point. I don't know why you decided to go there at all.

Why does it matter if one of Blazinghand or Palmar is mafia or not? Either way, it is in town's best interests to scumhunt. There is absolutely no reason to lynch in the first 24 hours, lynch when confident. Let's say we lynch in 72 hours. If we spend the first 24 hours sitting around, waiting for Blazinghand and Palmar, that's 24 hours that could have been spent finding scum. There is no town incentive (other than laziness) to wait for inactives before starting to play the game, really regardless of the deadline.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:33 GMT
#291
On April 22 2015 06:31 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:27 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:23 rsoultin wrote:
okay, truffle

so i'm scum artanis

my scum partner may or may not be one of bh or palmar, but can't be both

so i say let's wait until they do something rather than trying to push a hasty vote through? xP bh said he'd do something later if we give him some room...palmar's a coinflip...most day phases last 48 hours anyway and unless you've got someone you're super sure is scum i see no problem with pushing this out to a standard 48...

not saying it makes him town, but i don't see how it makes him scum. essentially you're keying in on something nai. again
Um, you completely missed the point. I don't know why you decided to go there at all.

Why does it matter if one of Blazinghand or Palmar is mafia or not? Either way, it is in town's best interests to scumhunt. There is absolutely no reason to lynch in the first 24 hours, lynch when confident. Let's say we lynch in 72 hours. If we spend the first 24 hours sitting around, waiting for Blazinghand and Palmar, that's 24 hours that could have been spent finding scum. There is no town incentive (other than laziness) to wait for inactives before starting to play the game, really regardless of the deadline.


you're boring me truffle lol >< what artie chooses to do or not do we can make him answer for later. he doesn't control the rest of us. the fact remains that not lynching someone today when two players have done jack-all is actually better for town, regardless of the alignment of the person who suggested it
I don't believe that anyone has suggested lynching today?

Either way, I got what I wanted out of this conversation. Artanis responded exactly like I would expect him to as town. Both the initial tolerance and willingness to discuss with me and the eventual frustration seem to be appropriate townie emotions.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 21:34 GMT
#295
On April 22 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote:
Hey guys my name is bh, I'm moving so I won't be doing much don't lynch me give me time.-scum bh

HEY GUYS I HAVE A NEW JOB WONT DO ANYTHING FOR AWHILE SO DONT LYNCH ME-BH this game
I think that it's better to sit quietly on this for now.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 22:16 GMT
#324
On April 22 2015 07:15 rsoultin wrote:
meh i don't know about damdy this game -_-
This. If we lynch anyone, it should be Damdred.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 22:17 GMT
#325
On April 22 2015 07:15 Damdred wrote:
That's part of the bad thing about a sorta iml nobody wants to play unless they have to.

As such I think arts actions are scummy and we should,make him play
Rsoultin, would you like to use this reasoning on Damdred and see how he feels? I think it will be fun.

##vote Damdred
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 22:22 GMT
#329
So Damdred, are you standing by your reasoning for voting Artanis? Because it's literally the same thing.

You see something you think is scummy, and you vote it. Either they are scum, or they deserved it.

I see something I think is scummy, and I vote it. Either you are scum, or you deserved it.

Have I made my point?

##unvote
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 22:25 GMT
#334
Damdred's reasoning and vote on Artanis is bad.

I find it suspicious.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 22:39 GMT
#340
On April 22 2015 07:27 Damdred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 07:16 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 07:15 rsoultin wrote:
meh i don't know about damdy this game -_-
This. If we lynch anyone, it should be Damdred.


This isn't suspicious, this is a hard read that you can't explain
But I can explain it?

You're not playing up to the level that I expect from you, or anywhere near it.
On April 21 2015 14:06 Damdred wrote:
Wouldn't Lynch Ever
Damdred

Wouldn't lynch probably
Rsoultin
Breshke

I like you will you come over later?
Yamato

Who are you and what did you do with who I used to know
Artanis

Why are you ignoring us all: would probably lynch
Trfel

Probably Would vote for
Wave of shadow

Must be scum
Blazinghand

Must Be Palmar
palmar

This is sorta a silly list post if anyone has any questions just ask i'll answer it when i'm around and not asleep
I get it, there are hidden meanings based on the list categories. But you didn't provide any explanation for most of these at all. Seeing as you hadn't done anything useful at all by this point (no, calling someone with no posts scum doesn't count as being useful), you need to contribute something of your own.

When you actually explain your reads, I don't care for your Blazinghand read. Your read on me doesn't say anything. Your reads on Breshke and yamato77 are better, though.
On April 22 2015 05:10 Damdred wrote:
I don't like that post especially that town read on wave hrm.
But you said that my last post was okay and moved me up on your list.

And I've already explained why your vote on Artanis is bad.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 22:41 GMT
#341
On April 22 2015 07:33 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 07:25 Trfel wrote:
Damdred's reasoning and vote on Artanis is bad.

I find it suspicious.

Then why vote and unvote him with that explanation?
I voted him in an attempt to make a point, and show that his reason for voting Artanis was stupid. Apparently that didn't work.

Lynching today isn't a good idea. I already said words to that effect. Of course I wasn't going to lynch Damdred.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 21 2015 22:49 GMT
#344
On April 22 2015 07:44 WaveofShadow wrote:
OK but what's your intent then? It's understandable not to want to lynch in the next hour or whatever, but was the whole point just to explain to damdred how poorly he's behaving? What is that supposed to accomplish?
I was trying to put something into practice, to actually demonstrate it, instead of using words. Clearly that didn't actually get anything done.

I've shown why I think Damdred's play is suspicious. And I do think that voting Artanis is bad at this time. I've already said why I think that his reaction to my pressure with yamato77 was towny.

He's been focused and asking questions, getting information, getting discussion started. I'm not going to ignore that and lynch him because I disagree with one of his opinions, especially given the way he responded when questioned. I'm extremely surprised that Damdred would just lynch Artanis for this.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 01:31 GMT
#358
Well, I guess it's time to actually read the thread.

Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 01:42 GMT
#359
I almost want to townread Palmar for trolling. He rarely trolls as scum, and often trolls as town. And he knows it, and he knows that we know it.

However, given the way that he openly broke his meta last game (mass bussing when he is known for a no bussing meta), I wouldn't actually be at all surprised if he decided to troll in this game if he is mafia here. So in the end, I'm actually more suspicious of Palmar, not less.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 01:53 GMT
#361
On April 21 2015 10:05 rsoultin wrote:
i like yama and palmar this game so far
Wait, rsoultin, why did you say this?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:02 GMT
#363
On April 22 2015 11:00 Damdred wrote:
Have you looked at any of waves games as scum trfel?
No, do I need to?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:28 GMT
#365
On April 21 2015 12:31 WaveofShadow wrote:
And I never said artanis's reason was 'real.'
Yet another reason to townread WaveofShadow.

I'm actually rather self conscious of my wording when I'm under suspicion, much less mafia. And I would remember the words that I used. Here, WaveofShadow directly contradicts the wording of one of his previous posts (in wording only, not intent). As mafia I would never have done this, and I think that this shows that WaveofShadow isn't paying much attention to his posts, a towny quality.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:31 GMT
#368
Best host ever ^^
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:42 GMT
#371
Rereading the game more closely, I think that I finally understand the annoying rsoultin is mafia read.

She's being annoying and commenting on everything, with very high "entertainment" standards. But she's not doing anything interesting herself.

It makes her town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:43 GMT
#372
On April 22 2015 11:40 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 10:53 Trfel wrote:
On April 21 2015 10:05 rsoultin wrote:
i like yama and palmar this game so far
Wait, rsoultin, why did you say this?


the one on palmar was retracted xP you actually quoted the quote you ninny

as for yama, i just have generally liked how he's approached the game so far, between the joke vote, pushing wave but not continuing to antagonize him when it reached a certain point -shrugs- not sure where exactly the quote fell in all that, but i've felt generally good about yama through most of the game
Of course I know about the Palmar one, I was asking about the yamato77 one...

Why did you say that when you posted it? There wasn't much to work with then...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:45 GMT
#373
On April 21 2015 15:20 Damdred wrote:
This part is a bit trickier, trfel as scum in my experience likes to be in the thick of the action trying to shape other peoples reads and causing subtle confusions. Very unlike bh scum game which is more behind the scenes, besides trfels last bit post who h was ok that puts him more towards the bottom of null rather than town.
It's not very relevant, but I need to know.

Damdred, whatever gave you this idea? You make my scum game seem extremely sophisticated, and I have absolutely no idea why you would think this.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:48 GMT
#375
On April 22 2015 11:46 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 11:43 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:40 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 10:53 Trfel wrote:
On April 21 2015 10:05 rsoultin wrote:
i like yama and palmar this game so far
Wait, rsoultin, why did you say this?


the one on palmar was retracted xP you actually quoted the quote you ninny

as for yama, i just have generally liked how he's approached the game so far, between the joke vote, pushing wave but not continuing to antagonize him when it reached a certain point -shrugs- not sure where exactly the quote fell in all that, but i've felt generally good about yama through most of the game
Of course I know about the Palmar one, I was asking about the yamato77 one...

Why did you say that when you posted it? There wasn't much to work with then...


lol i dunnae i'd have to look when i posted that xP early game it was obviously a light read?
Yes, but I'm still curious.

Basically all he did was make a few jokes, then vote for WaveofShadow, and then say that it was something he said he would do pre-game. I don't see how you could arrive where you did.

Enlighten me?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:51 GMT
#377
On April 22 2015 11:50 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 11:48 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:46 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:43 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:40 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 10:53 Trfel wrote:
On April 21 2015 10:05 rsoultin wrote:
i like yama and palmar this game so far
Wait, rsoultin, why did you say this?


the one on palmar was retracted xP you actually quoted the quote you ninny

as for yama, i just have generally liked how he's approached the game so far, between the joke vote, pushing wave but not continuing to antagonize him when it reached a certain point -shrugs- not sure where exactly the quote fell in all that, but i've felt generally good about yama through most of the game
Of course I know about the Palmar one, I was asking about the yamato77 one...

Why did you say that when you posted it? There wasn't much to work with then...


lol i dunnae i'd have to look when i posted that xP early game it was obviously a light read?
Yes, but I'm still curious.

Basically all he did was make a few jokes, then vote for WaveofShadow, and then say that it was something he said he would do pre-game. I don't see how you could arrive where you did.

Enlighten me?


tone

he was light in the beginning which is harder for scum
I see.

I don't feel terribly enlightened, but whatever.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 02:58 GMT
#379
On April 22 2015 11:55 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 11:51 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:50 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:48 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:46 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:43 Trfel wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:40 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 10:53 Trfel wrote:
On April 21 2015 10:05 rsoultin wrote:
i like yama and palmar this game so far
Wait, rsoultin, why did you say this?


the one on palmar was retracted xP you actually quoted the quote you ninny

as for yama, i just have generally liked how he's approached the game so far, between the joke vote, pushing wave but not continuing to antagonize him when it reached a certain point -shrugs- not sure where exactly the quote fell in all that, but i've felt generally good about yama through most of the game
Of course I know about the Palmar one, I was asking about the yamato77 one...

Why did you say that when you posted it? There wasn't much to work with then...


lol i dunnae i'd have to look when i posted that xP early game it was obviously a light read?
Yes, but I'm still curious.

Basically all he did was make a few jokes, then vote for WaveofShadow, and then say that it was something he said he would do pre-game. I don't see how you could arrive where you did.

Enlighten me?


tone

he was light in the beginning which is harder for scum
I see.

I don't feel terribly enlightened, but whatever.


lol you ask me to explain light reads i have a page into a game and expect a stunning revelation? xP whatcha smokin' today truffle?
Not really sure, but it's dirt cheap. Next time, I go for quality.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 03:05 GMT
#381
You are not messing up your time stamps.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 03:06 GMT
#383
You guys stay around, okay? When I finish reading the thread, I need people to talk to.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 03:13 GMT
#385
On April 22 2015 12:06 Trfel wrote:
You guys stay around, okay? When I finish reading the thread, I need people to talk to.
Eh, never mind.

I think I need a break.

See you guys tomorrow.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 03:34 GMT
#394
Just a quick update on where I'm at.

I reread about the first half of the thread.

Damdred is very likely to be town here, despite my earlier read. His play actually does have direction and focus. Furthermore, someone pointed out that mafia Damdred plays to survive. Damdred isn't playing to survive here; smaller post count (at least in the first half of the thread) aside, Damdred's tone is extremely relaxed, and he did that strange list post to try and draw questions about it. Damdred here is enjoying the game, and playing for fun, which makes him quite likely to be town.

WaveofShadow is also town here. His play makes sense from a town perspective throughout, both when he thought that the game was Instant Majority and when he realized what the vote format is. Again, WaveofShadow's play shows some inconsistencies, but they are in the details and I actually think that they make him more likely to be town (I explained one of them a few posts back).

Breshke is probably town here as well. I was a bit put off by the way that he defended WaveofShadow when it wasn't necessary, but the comment he gave was absolutely correct, and the way that he posted afterwards seemed genuine. He's been providing useful points and good thoughts this game, and that is a sign of town Breshke.

I think that yamato77 could be mafia here. I'm not going to go into it in detail, but it's just an impression that I get. He makes several comments picking on people's play, and only later attaching an alignment to it (ironically, one example of this is Breshke defending WaveofShadow without taking a stance on WaveofShadow's alignment.... yamato77 only takes an actual stance on Breshke later). Furthermore, yamato77 wanted to point out one of WaveofShadow's statements that had no value (it was a null read on himself), but didn't arrive at any conclusions about WaveofShadow's alignment from this. Yamato77 does seem a bit overly concerned with people's reads on himself.

I might be gone for a while. Good luck, and happy scumhunting!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 03:39 GMT
#395
Grr, forgot Artanis and Blazinghand. I'm a bit flustered at the moment.

Artanis is probably town, though I haven't carefully read the section of the thread in which he was posting. His questions are not only motivated at making reads, but also increasing the thread motivation. While he could do this as scum, I don't think it's terribly likely. In addition to the way that he responded to my pressure on him (previously described), I feel that Artanis is likely town.

And Blazinghand could very well be scum. I didn't want to say it earlier in case he would hear that he was under pressure and change his play, but everyone's already talking about it. Blazinghand is willing to go to any length to survive.

Furthermore, I don't actually think that his post comes in a town mindset. Town wouldn't sign up for a game and not even have time to read the thread. Town would glance over a few pages and provide at least a few thoughts to go on. Town wouldn't necessarily ask for a no-lynch on Day 1, town would trust that if other people wanted to lynch someone, that they would have good reasons for doing so, and wouldn't force themselves to be present. Town wouldn't set a hard deadline. His post feels more motivated by someone wanting to survive, than the actual words that he says.

Good enough for me for now.

##vote Blazinghand
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 16:55 GMT
#515
On April 22 2015 04:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Hm, I can see what you're saying Wave. Looking back I do feel like he's pulling a bit of a character though, which leads me to believe the confidence thing isn't really alignment indicative in this case.
Still catching up on the thread.

But would it be possible to get an explanation of this? What does it mean to "pull a bit of character"?

Thanks!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 19:32 GMT
#517
I have come to a realization. This entire game seems to think that the third vote on a wagon is a scummy vote.

I'm not scum. Let me prove it.

##unvote
##vote Blazinghand


Hammer vote is mine!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 20:11 GMT
#521
On April 23 2015 05:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
Trfel incapable of basic math apparently, or lying.

Do explain?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 20:13 GMT
#524
On April 23 2015 05:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
And once again, how the hell have you taken so long to 'catch up with the thread?'

Like, a bunch of other people flat out profess to not have read it but you would rather make excuses for not reading a 20 page game?
I'm on page 26 right now. Let me finish. I'm not making excuses.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 20:16 GMT
#525
Okay, I have now read the entire thread. Thank you very much for your patience, it is much appreciated.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 20:44 GMT
#526
Is it alignment indicative for Blazinghand's primary motivation to be survival instead of scumhunting?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 20:48 GMT
#528
On April 23 2015 05:45 rsoultin wrote:
so now that you've read the entire thread you can solve it for us, right? xP i've retired from the "annoying prodder" role. carry me
Working on it, but yamato77 is annoying. My explanation of why he is scum doesn't fit into any of my typical case formats, so I might have to improvise a bit.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 20:58 GMT
#529
On April 23 2015 05:48 Trfel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 05:45 rsoultin wrote:
so now that you've read the entire thread you can solve it for us, right? xP i've retired from the "annoying prodder" role. carry me
Working on it, but yamato77 is annoying. My explanation of why he is scum doesn't fit into any of my typical case formats, so I might have to improvise a bit.
Never mind about this, really.

In the end there isn't much that sticks on yamato77. He's mostly been focusing on irrelevant things and not driving the thread direction in ways which I feel are the best, but that doesn't make him scum.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 21:12 GMT
#532
On April 23 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote:
talk to me about artie and damdy -flops on- or about part of my list you disagree with

artie just seems...i dunnae, like people keep saying he's doing stuff but off the top of my head i can't really recall what aside from being charitable about my negative toneread on his entrance vote xP
Yeah, in retrospect, Artanis hasn't been doing as much as I thought. What he has been doing, though, has been in the right direction. I'm not sure how much of this is due to his post count restriction, and how much of it is due to my annoying him yesterday.

Damdred's tone looks really good for him here. And while some of the things he is doing seem strange, I don't see the mafia motivation, and he has seemingly tried to get more information into the thread. I don't think that he is scum.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 21:13 GMT
#533
On April 23 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
He scum read Trfel.
And actually as I recall that read is mostly based on meta and contrary to your read soniv kind of interested to see how that plays out.

Also don't quite get that yamato read Trfel.
Right now I'm not really sure about his alignment, so he's null. I'm not going to meta read him unless I have to, and even then I'm really bad at meta reads.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 21:24 GMT
#538
On April 23 2015 06:15 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
He scum read Trfel.
And actually as I recall that read is mostly based on meta and contrary to your read soniv kind of interested to see how that plays out.

Also don't quite get that yamato read Trfel.


well, that's easy, wave lol >< i'm right

the really question is whether or not it's reasonable for artie to be wrong about truffle and still town

(truffle is a super easy read imo)

meh guess i should actually read artanis' filter :/
I think that Artanis's scumread of me actually looks good for him. He makes a good point, and that's the sort of read that I expect from him. Would he do that as mafia? Not sure, but I think that he knows that he won't mislynch me this game (or at least, he will need much more evidence first).

I'm still leaning town on Artanis, though is absence is concerning me. Does he agree with the Blazinghand wagon? If not, he should be here and trying to stop it. At the time of his last post, there were four votes on Blazinghand.

If anything looks suspicious, that is it. He doesn't care if Blazinghand is lynched or not.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 21:30 GMT
#541
I take it back, I just have terrible reading comprehension.

Artanis did comment on Blazinghand, first not convinced that he was scum due to his case, and then felt that it was an okay lynch due to the followup. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked.

It isn't a very large or amazing amount of information on Blazinghand, but I suppose I can see it from the perspective who sees an okay lynch, but also sees everyone ignoring what is (in his opinion) a better lynch.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 21:40 GMT
#548
On April 23 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 00:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 22 2015 21:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
That's your ironclad reasoning palmar? Calling me scum for shit I've already explained in thread and saying 'I don't know what yamato is doing?'

Gj

Artanis any thoughts on BH at all? Did you read what I wrote?

I don't like his unwillingness to comment on other things. I don't like his case on Damdred particularly either. As has been said, it's a narrative. Seems like a good chance to flip scum.

I need to do some more work on Trfel and flesh my read on him out but I have to leave for theater in a sec. Will get something done later tonight. Kinda annoyed no one's commented on him since I called him scummy but you though.


mmm or maybe just benching the read for later?

okay i guess i can give artie some space to see what comes of this
It seemed to me that Artanis would be back later to finish his read on me.

Artanis is sort of null, I suppose, given both his semi-weak stance on Blazinghand and not having the thread leadership that I thought he did at a glance.

I expect scum to be among Artanis, yamato77, and maybe Breshke, even though I can't demonstrate that any of them are clear scum yet.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 21:46 GMT
#552
On April 23 2015 06:45 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 06:40 Trfel wrote:
On April 23 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:
On April 23 2015 00:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 22 2015 21:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
That's your ironclad reasoning palmar? Calling me scum for shit I've already explained in thread and saying 'I don't know what yamato is doing?'

Gj

Artanis any thoughts on BH at all? Did you read what I wrote?

I don't like his unwillingness to comment on other things. I don't like his case on Damdred particularly either. As has been said, it's a narrative. Seems like a good chance to flip scum.

I need to do some more work on Trfel and flesh my read on him out but I have to leave for theater in a sec. Will get something done later tonight. Kinda annoyed no one's commented on him since I called him scummy but you though.


mmm or maybe just benching the read for later?

okay i guess i can give artie some space to see what comes of this
It seemed to me that Artanis would be back later to finish his read on me.

Artanis is sort of null, I suppose, given both his semi-weak stance on Blazinghand and not having the thread leadership that I thought he did at a glance.

I expect scum to be among Artanis, yamato77, and maybe Breshke, even though I can't demonstrate that any of them are clear scum yet.


what has you uncertain about breshke?
Mostly because I'm too lazy to read his filter and see if he's scummy or not at this time. If I did that, I would probably be fairly certain one way or another.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 21:48 GMT
#553
I don't think there is any question that Blazinghand isn't playing to find scum here. He's obviously playing to survive, and not to find scum.

But from what I've heard of Blazinghand, I'm not sure that this actually makes him mafia? Would he play to live, at all costs, as town?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 23:54 GMT
#626
Hello.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 22 2015 23:59 GMT
#629
See you guys tomorrow. No legacy because I'm not dying.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:01 GMT
#634
Hello.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:02 GMT
#636
Palmar, any thoughts on the game?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:07 GMT
#639
On April 24 2015 09:06 yamato77 wrote:
will play later. have LYLO to do in other game
Too bad, you're the person I'm most interested in.

Oh well, it is what it is.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:10 GMT
#643
On April 21 2015 08:40 Hapahauli wrote:

3) Mafia KP is delivered by individual players, and is therefore block-able. Mafia can opt not to shoot, and can use that saved KP the next night (in addition to normal KP).

Good luck, have fun!
Bleh.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:11 GMT
#646
DO NOT CLAIM
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:13 GMT
#649
On April 24 2015 09:12 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 09:11 rsoultin wrote:
lol the first thought that went through my head was...

the fuck? we can't be that wrong about everything that scum would rather no-shoot >< blah now i have to reread

oooor apparently can kill two of us the next night -_- if they no-shoot

lovely

Where does it say that?
I quoted it.

I can tell people are paying attention to me.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:21 GMT
#655
On April 24 2015 09:20 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 09:15 Palmar wrote:
Yes I found it.

So I'm bad sorry. Mafia absolutely held their shot. They always do when this option is available. ALWAYS.


I don't really get that. Like if there is a detective role they are just letting them get a free check. By not killing anyone they ensure our Pr doesn't die and if we have a saving role using two KP in one night feels like it increases the chances that they will get a save.

Does anyone have any conclusions from BH flipping town because i got none currently

I'm kind of suspicious of the way that yamato77 dealt with the Blazinghand wagon. Does anyone else agree, or am I being tunneled against him?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:24 GMT
#659
Hm, actually...

I just noticed a contradiction that yamato77 gave in regards to Blazinghand's activity.

When Artanis was asking to delay to get Blazinghand and Palmar to play, yamato77 said that Blazinghand was capable of astonishing uselessness as town.

When Blazinghand was hammered, yamato77 asked to wait another day to get a better read on Blazinghand, since Blazinghand can defend himself really hard when he is town.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:26 GMT
#660
I'm waiting for Artanis to arrive at a conclusion about me before I detail my thoughts on him.

But I don't see a reason in his filter to scumread him. If he is scum here, it's more about what isn't there than what [/i]is[/i], I think. At this time I don't want to lynch him, though he might be scum here.

I'm much more confident on yamato77 being mafia.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 00:30 GMT
#662
Of course. I might even want to no-lynch twice.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 01:37 GMT
#681
yamato77
  • Yamato77 tends to focus on things that don't matter very much
    + Show Spoiler +
    On April 21 2015 11:45 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 21 2015 11:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
    On April 21 2015 11:30 yamato77 wrote:
    When have I done something like this as mafia, Wave?

    Like....why did you even feel the need to bring this up?

    Because it's a statement with no basis.

    "I could see Yamato doing this as either alignment" is tantamount to saying "I could see Yamato doing this as mafia."

    Why do you think that's the case, precisely, if you aren't using meta? Why mention me by name at all if you're just going to make some sort of puffball generalized statement?

    Very strange, Wave.
    Right at the start of the game, yamato77 is picking on something that isn't relevant. WaveofShadow gave a null read on yamato77, and yamato77 spent several posts questioning it and only later showed any relation to WaveofShadow's alignment (calling it strange). The most suspicious thing is that yamato77 spent time asking an obvious question instead of cutting straight to the point, that WaveofShadow gave a null read (which still isn't important, because WaveofShadow was providing reads on the three players who voted for him, and one of them happened to be null).
    On April 21 2015 12:46 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 21 2015 12:45 Breshke wrote:
    On April 21 2015 12:38 rsoultin wrote:
    lol you just quoted the reason i'm questioning wave, breshke, and yet you ask?

    the points you brought up in your post are the same ones that i don't care about...also in what you just quoted

    kinda obvious there, bresh


    Idk somethings lost on me here but i dont see how you cant care about the context of his reads with him thinking it was IML but then wanting to know why the yamato and artanis read was different.

    Anyway I don't really care about this stuff because i don't think it says that much about waves alignment.

    so you don't have a read on him, but you're intervening on his behalf.

    mmmmmmmk.
    Yamato77 comments on Breshke defending a null read. But other than perhaps implied suspicion, there are no alignment indicative conclusions from this post.
    On April 22 2015 06:13 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
    That doesn't force anything. They'll participate if they feel like it this game.

    Well, they can continue to do nothing, and then we can lynch them then bitch about them not playing to their win condition. The point is, we can give them time due to there not being a hard deadline, so there's no excuses for them not to participate.

    artanis, is this seriously your plan this game?
    Then there's the push on Artanis for his statement about waiting on Palmar and Blazinghand to start playing before continuing. I fully realize that I questioned this first. I feel that yamato77 was more hostile to Artanis's statements and kept up the questioning longer than he should have, and wasn't interested in actually drawing a correct conclusion about Artanis's alignment (while I pressured Artanis primarily for the reaction and backed off when I got it). Still, this is something I probably shouldn't have picked on this. It was a mistake, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't scummy for yamato77 to do this.
    On April 22 2015 06:26 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:23 rsoultin wrote:
    okay, truffle

    so i'm scum artanis

    my scum partner may or may not be one of bh or palmar, but can't be both

    so i say let's wait until they do something rather than trying to push a hasty vote through? xP bh said he'd do something later if we give him some room...palmar's a coinflip...most day phases last 48 hours anyway and unless you've got someone you're super sure is scum i see no problem with pushing this out to a standard 48...

    not saying it makes him town, but i don't see how it makes him scum. essentially you're keying in on something nai. again

    To me, it sounded like Artanis is ONLY going to focus on them today, fuck all else, we lynch them if they don't contribute.

    Seems a bit arbitrary to pick those two exact players who are known to be useless as both alignments and narrow the lynch to them ONLY.
    This is shown by the way that he continued this line of questioning. Here, he isn't trying to learn anything about Artanis's alignment, he is only justifying his stance. This isn't gaining him anything except for more arguing.
    On April 22 2015 06:33 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 05:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    Plus that gives me an excuse to play GTA V once it's installed.

    like, this is his follow-up post to his suggestion

    joking or not, dude obviously isn't too keen on contributing to town today
    He keeps talking about how scummy this is, culminating in a vote on Artanis, for this one post. Which isn't relevant to Artanis's alignment at all, especially after Artanis clearly demonstrated that he was going to keep following and playing the game, which yamato77 ignored.
    On April 22 2015 06:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:39 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:32 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    Yes look at all the waiting I'm doing.

    you're responding to PRESSURE

    you aren't the one doing the pressing

    big difference

    I'm responding to idiots being idiots and it's unfortunate as I could have spent that time playing GTA5.

    Actually, I couldn't because it's not installed yet, but that's semantics.

    so you freely admit you don't actually care to play the game beyond wasting time waiting for Palmar/BH?

    alright

    ##unvote
    ##Vote: Artanis

    I'd be happy to spend that time doing analysis, but I'm not exactly in the mood for that anymore after the idiocy that went down, so yeah, I'm just gonna go and chill for today.
    Posts like this, for example, clearly show that Artanis's statement doesn't mean that he is going to stop playing the game.

    On April 23 2015 07:36 yamato77 wrote:
    I mean, look at the null post

    He says I was "focusing on irrelevant things" (blatantly not true?)

    He didn't like the "direction" I sent the thread in. Nebulous statement.

    Hm.
    Here's yamato77's read on me. Lately, I've been having comments about being biased towards other people's reads on me, so I'm not going to consider this too much. While I don't think that this is a good read, and I don't think that it shows clear thought process, he is taking a stance and investigating it.

  • Yamato77's isn't focused in his pushes
    + Show Spoiler +
    Yamato77 first pushes suspicion towards WaveofShadow for explaining a null read on himself early in the game. However, since then, he's barely commented to WaveofShadow at all, and has never expressed things about his alighment. Yamato77 has shared a ton of suspicions of WaveofShadow, and next to nothing to alleviate these suspicions, but never actually pushes WaveofShadow for the entire game.

    Yamato77 started to scumread Artanis for his statement on Palmar and Blazinghand, and even voted for him.
    On April 22 2015 06:43 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:38 rsoultin wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:37 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:31 yamato77 wrote:
    like, the advantage of IML to me is that it's REALLY easy to put pressure on people by just piling a few votes on and making that player respond to them

    alignments are generally more obvious as someone is going to get lynched

    in a normal game, you really only get the chance to do this to like, one or two people per day

    but in IML you can do it to literally every person

    sure, we have all the time in the world, but it's stupid to waste it waiting on known trolls like BH/Palmar to play the game


    then who do you want to lynch in the next 2.5 hours, yama?

    the point is the threat of the lynch

    you use it actively as a tool to force people to play the game

    you don't use it passively and hope they play the game


    then do it? no one is stopping you

    do you think he's town, or something?

    Why do you wish to play foil?
    He seems to be extremely confident in this read.
    On April 23 2015 07:28 yamato77 wrote:
    I don't like Artanis' post where he comments on the case offhandedly and then votes trfel

    but I also don't like trfel calling me mafia for shit reasons and then sheeping the BH lynch
    And here's another reason to scumread Artanis.
    On April 23 2015 07:39 yamato77 wrote:
    Artanis!

    Seems like you and I have the same problem with trfel, haha.
    And then a reason to townread Artanis.
    On April 23 2015 07:50 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 23 2015 07:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 23 2015 07:45 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 23 2015 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    BH deserves to be lynched for not posting the British Empire Mafia post-game analysis anyway.

    So you consent to the BH lynch, Artanis?

    or...?

    I don't oppose it. I honestly have no idea what he'll flip but a bunch of people look townier and I don't think I'll ever be confident in reading him as town so him going today is fine.

    -pukes on keyboard-
    And then this. His vote is still on Artanis.
    On April 23 2015 08:12 yamato77 wrote:
    I'll freely admit I don't have a better lynch at this second but it's not really important to, at this point
    But lynching Artanis isn't better than lynching Blazinghand, who he's been protesting the lynch of. And he isn't pushing Artanis at all. I don't understand this. Even if his vote on Artanis is just a pressure vote, he doesn't seem interested in actually applying pressure.

    On April 23 2015 07:30 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 23 2015 07:28 rsoultin wrote:
    On April 23 2015 07:27 yamato77 wrote:
    alright, so the BH case in and of itself isn't really that bad

    honestly, the BH that does this whole martyring thing has been town in the past

    I've also seen him be scum and use delay tactics, but is this really a delay tactic?

    I'm unsure about this lynch, bros


    what's the better lynch?

    we're getting there

    I'm really still in the process of catching up all the way

    insight into trfel, maybe? you seem to think he's town but I don't really see it
    Then there's yamato77's push on me. Here he doesn't see how I can be townread. And he doesn't revisit this read.

    Finally, there's his defense of Blazinghand. The read itself I will with later. But he isn't confident in the lynch and asks for more time. However, he doesn't seem terribly interested in this at all. He makes a total of four posts on Blazinghand, one of which was an addition saying that he had no better lynch suggestions. With 39 minutes to End of Day, he left, without saying that he was leaving. He doesn't seem interested at keeping Blazinghand alive at all.

  • Yamato77 showed an inconsistent view on how to deal with Blazinghand
    + Show Spoiler +
    On April 22 2015 06:18 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:13 yamato77 wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 22 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
    That doesn't force anything. They'll participate if they feel like it this game.

    Well, they can continue to do nothing, and then we can lynch them then bitch about them not playing to their win condition. The point is, we can give them time due to there not being a hard deadline, so there's no excuses for them not to participate.

    artanis, is this seriously your plan this game?

    Is there any point to this question?

    I mean, you're not going to look for a lynch among the active players, you're just going to default to sitting on Palmar/BH in the hopes of forcing them to play when they are both capable of astounding uselessness AS TOWN?
    On April 22 2015 06:35 yamato77 wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:32 Damdred wrote:
    Hey guys my name is bh, I'm moving so I won't be doing much don't lynch me give me time.-scum bh

    HEY GUYS I HAVE A NEW JOB WONT DO ANYTHING FOR AWHILE SO DONT LYNCH ME-BH this game

    this is equally asinine

    why do you want to focus on BH over commenting seriously on ANY other player in the game?

    Do you honestly believe BH incapable of being a lazy fuck as town? I don't.
    Twice, to separate people, yamato77 claimed that Blazinghand can be extremely useless as town, and that there is no point in waiting for him.

    Then, Blazinghand posted his case on Damdred. This case is best described as a narrative (as rsoultin describes it), meaning that the case is simply a recounting of all of the things that Damdred has done in the game, interpreted with a mafia mindset. There is no explanation of why Damdred couldn't be town and doing these same things, and no reason why the mafia mindset is more likely.
    On April 23 2015 07:27 yamato77 wrote:
    alright, so the BH case in and of itself isn't really that bad

    honestly, the BH that does this whole martyring thing has been town in the past

    I've also seen him be scum and use delay tactics, but is this really a delay tactic?

    I'm unsure about this lynch, bros
    Yamato says that it isn't that bad of a case. No explanation why. He says that Blazinghand has martyred in the past as town, but Blazinghand is willing to do anything to win (and even I know that he martyrs as mafia, despite only playing with him once before).
    On April 23 2015 08:10 yamato77 wrote:
    looking back at one memorable BH-mislynch, the guy got REALLY active once it was apparent he was going to be lynched.

    is it really imperative that we lynch him without giving him a proper chance?

    I mean, if he's scum he's going to continue to delay and be useless and probably just tunnel damdred (a la single-focus mindset in aperture). As town, maybe he becomes more useful?
    I don't understand what changed. Yamato77 basically admits that Blazinghand's play in this game, activity aside, was scummy, and he says that Blazinghand hasn't been given a proper chance. But if this isn't a delay tactic, then hasn't he already been given a proper chance?

    I also notice the way yamato77's tone changed after the lynch. Suddenly, he was extremely confident in the lynch being terrible, and everyone on it throwing the game. But he didn't actually say that much about the Blazinghand lynch before the deadline, and didn't seem to care that much about whether or not Blazinghand was lynched. The tone change after the lynch is a good sign that yamato77 is trying to pick up the town credit for not mislynching here.

    It's even more telling that yamato77 provides more evidence after the deadline. He's had a whole day to recover emotionally, so any anger he felt shouldn't be here any more. And he need not be defending himself from these minor pressures, especially since I'm the only one who actively seems suspicious of him (and he's scumreading me, and I haven't described my reasons for my scumread of him by the time he was defending his stance on Blazinghand). This doesn't strike me as town play.
This leads me to think that yamato77 is scum. However, there are a few things that give me pause. First, his tone is extremely relaxed and comfortable, which can be difficult for mafia. Second, people often disagree about what is scummy and towny, and what is important and what isn't. And yamato77 is certainly a more experienced and better player than me.

I read the first several pages of yamato77's play in Newbie Student Mafia VI. I'm biased, but in this game, I could immediately feel yamato77 being useful and directing town, and commenting on the most important things in the thread. While tonally it felt similar to this game, I felt that yamato77 was far more effective in Student Mafia VI than in this game. Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 01:53 GMT
#682
Now that I think about it some more, were he mafia, he probably would have suggested Artanis or I as an actual alternative to the Blazinghand lynch, or just stayed quiet. Protesting the Blazinghand lynch and not suggesting an alternative isn't what I would do as mafia.

I just don't know about him, every time I convince myself that he is scum, something else comes up that suggests that I'm wrong. I'm almost thinking that he is guaranteed town because I'm scumreading him, but ugh...
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 04:58 GMT
#690
On April 24 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote:
I'm not sure what else you want me to explain,

Art really isn't helping town

Trfel at this point is being pretty wordy while showing the thread that her suspicions while leaving doubt in there for a backtack for example

Show nested quote +
Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77.


For someone who was sure of this read enough o dig up old games, much doubt is put into it and distance is put inbetween in case yamato flips town.
Would you rather I be confident in my play to a degree far higher than my skill at mafia warrants?

One surefire way to find town players is to look at my scumreads. Here's what I'm thinking, and yamato77 is a scumread of mine. But I see ways that this read could be wrong, so I'm asking and sharing my thoughts. I could keep holding my thoughts to myself, and analyzing him myself, or I could leave it open to the rest of the thread, where everyone is better than me and can analyze this better than I can. It's a matter of honest, not a matter of alignment.

I mean, if you want me to push my reads to the end of time, I can do that. If you want me to throw the game for town, I can do that as well. Up to you.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 05:10 GMT
#695
On April 24 2015 14:01 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 24 2015 13:58 Trfel wrote:
On April 24 2015 13:38 Damdred wrote:
I'm not sure what else you want me to explain,

Art really isn't helping town

Trfel at this point is being pretty wordy while showing the thread that her suspicions while leaving doubt in there for a backtack for example

Though I'm not very good at meta reads, and I don't have much experience playing with yamato77.


For someone who was sure of this read enough o dig up old games, much doubt is put into it and distance is put inbetween in case yamato flips town.
Would you rather I be confident in my play to a degree far higher than my skill at mafia warrants?

One surefire way to find town players is to look at my scumreads. Here's what I'm thinking, and yamato77 is a scumread of mine. But I see ways that this read could be wrong, so I'm asking and sharing my thoughts. I could keep holding my thoughts to myself, and analyzing him myself, or I could leave it open to the rest of the thread, where everyone is better than me and can analyze this better than I can. It's a matter of honest, not a matter of alignment.

I mean, if you want me to push my reads to the end of time, I can do that. If you want me to throw the game for town, I can do that as well. Up to you.

So are you calling yamato scum?
I think that I have presented a lot of reasons that make him scum. However, I also see several things that I find unlikely for yamato77 to do. So, I'm hoping that people would comment.

Based on what I said, do you think that yamato77 is scum?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 16:48 GMT
#717
On April 25 2015 01:43 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2015 01:42 Damdred wrote:
I'll reread there interactions but I don't think it looks mafiaxmafia.
I thought Yamato looked good early decent activity ok content, waves picked up later

Half of what Yamato did early was argue with wos only to never follow it up
But he didn't really follow up with his other pushes either.

That or he just likes to feign complete confidence in his reads without actually being that confident in them.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 16:53 GMT
#720
I'm not sure if Palmar has started playing the game seriously yet or not? Can someone please enlighten me?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 24 2015 22:32 GMT
#729
Sorry, I'm not going to be around for the deadline.

I'm fairly confident that at least one of my townreads is mafia, I'll take another look at them soon.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 04:43 GMT
#893
Hi,

I'm sorry for my absence. I was at a movie-watching event for all three Hobbit films and all three Lord of the Rings films. I'm a bit sleepy at the moment.

I'll catch up tomorrow as soon as I can.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 21:14 GMT
#935
On April 27 2015 06:12 Damdred wrote:
If you pay attention to happas messages, yesterday it said till next vote today says end of cycle basically.

No I've been pretty clear with what my problems are.

You have my attention rsoultin, even though Trfel has done less than breshke let sigh
I'm here and reading, give me a second...

I'm actually rather surprised that Breshke agreed with Palmar about yamato77. Breshke definitely needs a filter dive.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 21:23 GMT
#940
Artanis, can you please briefly summarize all of the reasons for your scumread on me? Examples aren't necessary.

Thanks!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 21:38 GMT
#945
On April 27 2015 06:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 06:23 Trfel wrote:
Artanis, can you please briefly summarize all of the reasons for your scumread on me? Examples aren't necessary.

Thanks!

1) Tonally very different from your towngame; much more certain in reads until I pinged it out
2) Could not follow your read progression on me. Pointed it out before which you never addressed.
3) Handing out a lot of townreads in general for pretty sketchy reasoning.

Those are my main reasons.
As for my tone itself, I can't address. For read certainty, the reads you comment on here being more certain are my townreads. I haven't really had a solid scumread all game long.

I don't understand why you have problems with my read progression on you. Most of the posts that you cite were while I was in discussion with people, so we were looking at things and posting our thoughts. My thoughts on you weren't complete, I posted after basically every new (notable) thing that I found, or that someone else pointed out. My read on you changed as I got more information. As for you getting a townread from me easier than before, it's because I held you to standards that are too high last game, and I (hopefully) corrected that error. If you expect me to not rethink my reads when given new information... it's just a sign of lazy play.

As for the reasoning behind my townreads, I guess you're right about this. I have most likely townread someone incorrectly, as per this response to your earlier question:
On April 25 2015 08:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 25 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
Sorry, I'm not going to be around for the deadline.

I'm fairly confident that at least one of my townreads is mafia, I'll take another look at them soon.

What makes you say this?
My track record, plus I have too many townreads.

I guess this has generally felt like a low-content game, and I'm having trouble finding mafia, so I resorted to being more liberal with townreads, which probably wasn't the best idea.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 21:47 GMT
#948
Trumpet is a great instrument.
+ Show Spoiler +
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 21:54 GMT
#951
On April 27 2015 06:52 Damdred wrote:
Trfel New reads lists type deal please.
Why... As of page 39:

Town
rsoultin
WaveofShadow

Town Lean
Damdred
Palmar

Maybe Scum (filter dives pending)
Artanis
Breshke
yamato77
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:00 GMT
#955
On April 27 2015 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 06:38 Trfel wrote:
On April 27 2015 06:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 27 2015 06:23 Trfel wrote:
Artanis, can you please briefly summarize all of the reasons for your scumread on me? Examples aren't necessary.

Thanks!

1) Tonally very different from your towngame; much more certain in reads until I pinged it out
2) Could not follow your read progression on me. Pointed it out before which you never addressed.
3) Handing out a lot of townreads in general for pretty sketchy reasoning.

Those are my main reasons.
As for my tone itself, I can't address. For read certainty, the reads you comment on here being more certain are my townreads. I haven't really had a solid scumread all game long.

I don't understand why you have problems with my read progression on you. Most of the posts that you cite were while I was in discussion with people, so we were looking at things and posting our thoughts. My thoughts on you weren't complete, I posted after basically every new (notable) thing that I found, or that someone else pointed out. My read on you changed as I got more information. As for you getting a townread from me easier than before, it's because I held you to standards that are too high last game, and I (hopefully) corrected that error. If you expect me to not rethink my reads when given new information... it's just a sign of lazy play.

As for the reasoning behind my townreads, I guess you're right about this. I have most likely townread someone incorrectly, as per this response to your earlier question:
On April 25 2015 08:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 25 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
Sorry, I'm not going to be around for the deadline.

I'm fairly confident that at least one of my townreads is mafia, I'll take another look at them soon.

What makes you say this?
My track record, plus I have too many townreads.

I guess this has generally felt like a low-content game, and I'm having trouble finding mafia, so I resorted to being more liberal with townreads, which probably wasn't the best idea.

Regarding the read progression, I'm all fine and dandy with that but you never really address it in your posts what made you change. I feel that as town (in the past at least) you often state exactly what changed your mind when it does, and I've missed that this game.

Last time, you mentioned you were much more confident in Yamato being scum than me. Recently, you've mentioned that you don't think Yamato is scum anymore. Am I currently your top scumread or where are you at?
Hm, I did explain exactly what caused my read to change each time.

I don't have a top scumread right now. I removed my scumread on yamato77, but I never decided that he wasn't scum (does that make sense to you?). I found it surprising that right after I left, multiple people posted reasons to scumread yamato77 which I explained in my case on him (apparently, explained very poorly). That makes me slightly more confident in my scumread of him, but it's possible that he always plays in ways that I deem "scummy", because the way he is playing isn't strictly anti-town, its effectiveness depends on how it is done.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:04 GMT
#957
On April 27 2015 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Trfel, can you lay it to me why you think Wave is town? The more specific, the better.
Check my filter?

I'm not going to dig up quotes at this time, but I felt like he's been playing naturally all game long. He's made several reads that I like, and he's been willing to discuss and move things along. His early argument with yamato77 felt particularly natural and towny. Perhaps he's just very good at being natural and relaxed as mafia, but there were some other specific things that I noticed (I don't remember them any more, they should be in my filter) that make me think that he is town anyway.

Plus, I'm noticing a lot of the same things that I noticed when I townread him (correctly) in Aperture 4 (willingness to discuss, some insightful reads, generally liking his comments).
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:07 GMT
#960
On April 27 2015 07:06 WaveofShadow wrote:
How was I willing to discuss anything in Aperture 4?
In your earlier posts, before the entire thread (for some reason) decided that you were mafia.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:16 GMT
#964
On April 27 2015 07:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 07:00 Trfel wrote:
On April 27 2015 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 27 2015 06:38 Trfel wrote:
On April 27 2015 06:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 27 2015 06:23 Trfel wrote:
Artanis, can you please briefly summarize all of the reasons for your scumread on me? Examples aren't necessary.

Thanks!

1) Tonally very different from your towngame; much more certain in reads until I pinged it out
2) Could not follow your read progression on me. Pointed it out before which you never addressed.
3) Handing out a lot of townreads in general for pretty sketchy reasoning.

Those are my main reasons.
As for my tone itself, I can't address. For read certainty, the reads you comment on here being more certain are my townreads. I haven't really had a solid scumread all game long.

I don't understand why you have problems with my read progression on you. Most of the posts that you cite were while I was in discussion with people, so we were looking at things and posting our thoughts. My thoughts on you weren't complete, I posted after basically every new (notable) thing that I found, or that someone else pointed out. My read on you changed as I got more information. As for you getting a townread from me easier than before, it's because I held you to standards that are too high last game, and I (hopefully) corrected that error. If you expect me to not rethink my reads when given new information... it's just a sign of lazy play.

As for the reasoning behind my townreads, I guess you're right about this. I have most likely townread someone incorrectly, as per this response to your earlier question:
On April 25 2015 08:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 25 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
Sorry, I'm not going to be around for the deadline.

I'm fairly confident that at least one of my townreads is mafia, I'll take another look at them soon.

What makes you say this?
My track record, plus I have too many townreads.

I guess this has generally felt like a low-content game, and I'm having trouble finding mafia, so I resorted to being more liberal with townreads, which probably wasn't the best idea.

Regarding the read progression, I'm all fine and dandy with that but you never really address it in your posts what made you change. I feel that as town (in the past at least) you often state exactly what changed your mind when it does, and I've missed that this game.

Last time, you mentioned you were much more confident in Yamato being scum than me. Recently, you've mentioned that you don't think Yamato is scum anymore. Am I currently your top scumread or where are you at?
Hm, I did explain exactly what caused my read to change each time.

But I pointed out that you didn't. You gave two reasons to townread me, then proceeded to say I was null for things you had noticed and pointed out before.
+ Show Spoiler [Initial case] +
On April 23 2015 07:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 07:26 rsoultin wrote:
On April 23 2015 07:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Can anyone concisely explain why they're suspicious of me other than not posting as much which I've already mentioned I would pregame and have done in the last game I've played as well (and flipped town in but is ongoing so shh)?


your contributions don't impress me ^^ what's more valuable is you doing the work you'd said you'd do on truffle so i can get a better read on you

i don't care if you're posting less. that's whatever. what i do expect, though, if you've decided to post less is higher quality posting

The posting less is a consequence of spending less time on the game, which is what the real reason for posting less is for me. Creating quality posts costs time too, therefore it seems unreasonable to expect consistent high quality posts as it'd still require a lot of time. I feel the observations I've had have been decent so far, though.

Reading Trfel, I don't understand his read progression on me at all. He had me as scummy leaning for my comment on waiting for Palmar/BH (which I feel is a dumb reason, but ok), then town for the way I replied to it, then said this about me:
Show nested quote +
Artanis is probably town, though I haven't carefully read the section of the thread in which he was posting. His questions are not only motivated at making reads, but also increasing the thread motivation. While he could do this as scum, I don't think it's terribly likely. In addition to the way that he responded to my pressure on him (previously described), I feel that Artanis is likely town.

So at this point he feels I'm likely town.
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 06:12 Trfel wrote:
On April 23 2015 06:05 rsoultin wrote:
talk to me about artie and damdy -flops on- or about part of my list you disagree with

artie just seems...i dunnae, like people keep saying he's doing stuff but off the top of my head i can't really recall what aside from being charitable about my negative toneread on his entrance vote xP
Yeah, in retrospect, Artanis hasn't been doing as much as I thought. What he has been doing, though, has been in the right direction. I'm not sure how much of this is due to his post count restriction, and how much of it is due to my annoying him yesterday.

Damdred's tone looks really good for him here. And while some of the things he is doing seem strange, I don't see the mafia motivation, and he has seemingly tried to get more information into the thread. I don't think that he is scum.

Weakening off his townread on me a little, but still maintains that what I'm doing is in the right direction.
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 06:24 Trfel wrote:
On April 23 2015 06:15 rsoultin wrote:
On April 23 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
He scum read Trfel.
And actually as I recall that read is mostly based on meta and contrary to your read soniv kind of interested to see how that plays out.

Also don't quite get that yamato read Trfel.


well, that's easy, wave lol >< i'm right

the really question is whether or not it's reasonable for artie to be wrong about truffle and still town

(truffle is a super easy read imo)

meh guess i should actually read artanis' filter :/
I think that Artanis's scumread of me actually looks good for him. He makes a good point, and that's the sort of read that I expect from him. Would he do that as mafia? Not sure, but I think that he knows that he won't mislynch me this game (or at least, he will need much more evidence first).

I'm still leaning town on Artanis, though is absence is concerning me. Does he agree with the Blazinghand wagon? If not, he should be here and trying to stop it. At the time of his last post, there were four votes on Blazinghand.

If anything looks suspicious, that is it. He doesn't care if Blazinghand is lynched or not.

So he was leaning town on me, then finds another reason to lean town on me (scumreading him).

Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 06:30 Trfel wrote:
I take it back, I just have terrible reading comprehension.

Artanis did comment on Blazinghand, first not convinced that he was scum due to his case, and then felt that it was an okay lynch due to the followup. Maybe I need to get my eyes checked.

It isn't a very large or amazing amount of information on Blazinghand, but I suppose I can see it from the perspective who sees an okay lynch, but also sees everyone ignoring what is (in his opinion) a better lynch.

Aaand another reason to townread me. So that's two more reasons to townread me after leaning town on me earlier.

Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 06:40 Trfel wrote:
On April 23 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:
On April 23 2015 00:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 22 2015 21:12 WaveofShadow wrote:
That's your ironclad reasoning palmar? Calling me scum for shit I've already explained in thread and saying 'I don't know what yamato is doing?'

Gj

Artanis any thoughts on BH at all? Did you read what I wrote?

I don't like his unwillingness to comment on other things. I don't like his case on Damdred particularly either. As has been said, it's a narrative. Seems like a good chance to flip scum.

I need to do some more work on Trfel and flesh my read on him out but I have to leave for theater in a sec. Will get something done later tonight. Kinda annoyed no one's commented on him since I called him scummy but you though.


mmm or maybe just benching the read for later?

okay i guess i can give artie some space to see what comes of this
It seemed to me that Artanis would be back later to finish his read on me.

Artanis is sort of null, I suppose, given both his semi-weak stance on Blazinghand and not having the thread leadership that I thought he did at a glance.

I expect scum to be among Artanis, yamato77, and maybe Breshke, even though I can't demonstrate that any of them are clear scum yet.

What happened? I don't understand this progression at all.


On another note, I think I might also want to lynch Palmar for voting for Yamato when Wave was his top suspect, and he suspected Yamato for the way he treated Wave's case rather than going after Wave himself. He also never really re-evaled Wave. Palmar's tone is always pretty confident these days I find, so I don't want to clear him for that in retrospect. Also a case of other people being townier.
Point by point.
  • I gave my first townread on you. Reason being that I thought you were driving the thread. I hadn't read the last several pages of the thread at the time, where I thought the bulk of your activity had been
  • Then I read the last several pages, and realized that you hadn't actually made posts like I had thought. I reread your filter, and you hadn't been driving the thread all that much. Hence, my townread wasn't really valid any more.
  • I see your point now. What happened was, I made a post stating "I see am leaning town on Artanis, but this is a reason why he might be scum, so I need to look into this". And then I looked into it, and for a while it was looking really bad, but then I found a comment that I missed. The fact that you did comment on Blazinghand (which I initially missed) caused you to be closer to null, when I was about to scumread you.
I understand your scumread on me a lot better now. Thanks.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:21 GMT
#967
Artanis, why are you townreading yamato77 and Breshke?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:25 GMT
#973
[QUOTE]On April 27 2015 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 27 2015 07:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 27 2015 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Basically, what's weird to me about Palmar is how Wave is his prime suspect, yet he never really goes to full lengths to get him lynched or research him, but rather just goes after Yamato when thread sentiment is turning against Yamato making him an easier mislynch (presuming Yamato is town). It doesn't seem like he's all that concerned about getting Wave lynched. His vote on him is completely meaningless too with no thread support and him not trying at all to get people on board the Wave train. He's never added anything to his initial case.[/QUOTE]
See that's the thing about Palmar. He never seems concerned enough to do anything, ever. If you can somehow tell by meta that this is town/scum Palmar by all means but as far as in-thread confidence goes I still have him at least townier than null.[/QUOTE]I actually disagree.

Palmar knows that if all he does is troll, it will be somewhat hard to lynch him.

Instead, Palmar started reading the game and making actual cases (cases which I don't think were all that good, but they were definitely serious cases). I don't think that these cases help Palmar at all, in fact they might actually hurt him, I think that really his motivation was to find scum (even if not enough to make him play the game properly).

Quick question, his reason to scumread WaveofShadow wasn't the initial reason that he forgot, right? It was a different reason?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:34 GMT
#982
Obviously some of it was trolling, but when he actually started providing reasons, I wouldn't consider it trolling.

His reason to scumread WaveofShadow (WaveofShadow wasn't interested in his alignment) is actually true. However, I have the impression that WaveofShadow gets angry a lot, so this would be an expected response from WaveofShadow. Regardless of this, it still doesn't make WaveofShadow scum.

His scumread on yamato77 (associative bit aside) wasn't bad either. It still doesn't make yamato77 scum, though.

I suppose I feel like he did those things at random times. Maybe I'm wrong, and he posted these when he needed to, to survive. Or maybe Artanis is right and he knows what he needs to do to survive, and he posted these to cut off suspicion before it began.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:46 GMT
#990
Ugh... can someone tell me the key points that happened between pages 41 and now?

Specifically, why did people stop scumreading yamato77?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:55 GMT
#993
On April 26 2015 07:41 Damdred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:48 yamato77 wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:45 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:43 yamato77 wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:38 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:37 yamato77 wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:31 yamato77 wrote:
like, the advantage of IML to me is that it's REALLY easy to put pressure on people by just piling a few votes on and making that player respond to them

alignments are generally more obvious as someone is going to get lynched

in a normal game, you really only get the chance to do this to like, one or two people per day

but in IML you can do it to literally every person

sure, we have all the time in the world, but it's stupid to waste it waiting on known trolls like BH/Palmar to play the game


then who do you want to lynch in the next 2.5 hours, yama?

the point is the threat of the lynch

you use it actively as a tool to force people to play the game

you don't use it passively and hope they play the game


then do it? no one is stopping you

do you think he's town, or something?

Why do you wish to play foil?


xP i'm going to vote for who i think is scum, and i'm not interested in rushing a vote today. i think artie wanting to give bh/palmar time to participate isn't scum-favored and this whole push is silly -shrugs-

but he's actively using it as an excuse to do fuck-all himself.

Like, he's waiting on the two players in this game that I would have ZERO expectation to suddenly become active of their own free will.

Maybe you don't have the history with BH/Palmar but I do, and Artanis should know better than to passively wait for them to play.

I'm fine with the idea of not lynching today, but you can't just sit back and expect the game to come to you.


I was rereading Yamatos filter, and I really really like this post. and exchange
If you didn't explain this already, why did you say this? (if you did, I'll find it eventually, no need to respond, sorry)
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 22:59 GMT
#995
##vote Breshke

+ Show Spoiler +
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 26 2015 23:38 GMT
#1010
bloody nose atm 1 hand

spoiler explains my vote

guardians, breshke looked town 4 content + reads not tone

ml due 2 poe list
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 00:05 GMT
#1012
##unvote
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 00:16 GMT
#1013
Hm, I'm really not liking Damdred's posting as of late. Maybe he needs to be added to the mafia pool after all?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 00:26 GMT
#1015
On April 27 2015 09:23 Damdred wrote:
You have 10 sentences to explain why
Reads that I really, really disagree with.

Once I finish catching up and filter dive you, if I decide it's significant, I'll elaborate. Not before then, for obvious reasons.

Also, I have a final tomorrow morning, so I may not get to it until after that.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 00:48 GMT
#1017
Hm, it seems that everyone else liked Damdred's posts in the time where I didn't like them, though I liked all of his posts before that when many others didn't.

Guess I need to look at it again later.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 03:28 GMT
#1022
I'm going to be honest.

Student Mafia VIII just ended. I can talk about it now.

This game was ridiculously depressing. Not only were my reads wrong for basically the entire game, but I managed to irritate most of the people in the game. My efforts to drive discussion and make things happened only led to more people scumreading me, more people getting mad, and fewer people enjoying reading the game.

It ended with me being shot by the vigilante on Night 1. Still, I managed to make the game environment miserable and make several townies extremely mad.

If people don't want to play with me, then I don't want to play, either. It's not about winning, it's about having fun, and I can't play if that prevents other people from having fun.

So in the midst of this, I scumread yamato77, and posted a case containing my reasons. And then everyone starts yelling at me and calling it a miserable case, and calling me mafia for it. A short while later, a bunch of people decide that yamato77 is mafia, for very similar reasons to ones that I mentioned in my case (apparently I said it really poorly). And yamato77 reached four votes, none of them being me.

No, I'm not playing my best this game. And I'm sorry for that, you guys deserve me to play at my best, especially with the player quality being so high in this game. But I'm doing what I can, and when it gets ignored like this, I'm not happy.

If you're going to scumread me, look at the thoughts I've been putting out first. I'm not one to drive discussion, I've tried to do this many times in the past. It doesn't work out for me, I've lost every single one of the games where I tried to lead discussion, and I was often scumread for doing so. My activity hasn't been very good this game, and for that I'm also sorry. I just ask that people wouldn't ignore me, and actually give my thoughts a fair chance.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 05:00 GMT
#1027
+ Show Spoiler [Damdred quotes] +
On April 26 2015 06:07 Damdred wrote:
Maybe I have a warped view of trfel, but the ability to press his reads and to drive them take precedence over almost anything else in the thread when he is actually involved in the thread.

Guardians, the student mafia games. And his scum games always lacks that, even if hes wrong he always pushes.

Here...hes always second guessing himself on everything he puts out it feels like.
One of many examples of false meta on me.
On April 26 2015 06:23 Damdred wrote:
I think that you are really wrong on breshke though.

If you think Yamato is scum, do you really see scum breshke going for the bus in this situation?
Bad argument (unflipped association read).
On April 26 2015 07:20 Damdred wrote:
Also, since i'm actually trying to be involved I think we as a thread need to just go ahead and say we are making all days 72 hours.

We are automatically losing 24 hours of information due to the silent nights. If we extend our lynching cycle by 24 hours unless hapa says otherwise we should just add an extra 24 hours to what we would normally do.

So we should lynch tomorrow at this time. It extends the game but we get more information in the same amount of cycles I think.
Why can't we worry about this every 24 hours? If we have a lynch, then lynch. If not, then don't.
On April 26 2015 07:41 Damdred wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:48 yamato77 wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:45 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:43 yamato77 wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:38 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:37 yamato77 wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:34 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:31 yamato77 wrote:
like, the advantage of IML to me is that it's REALLY easy to put pressure on people by just piling a few votes on and making that player respond to them

alignments are generally more obvious as someone is going to get lynched

in a normal game, you really only get the chance to do this to like, one or two people per day

but in IML you can do it to literally every person

sure, we have all the time in the world, but it's stupid to waste it waiting on known trolls like BH/Palmar to play the game


then who do you want to lynch in the next 2.5 hours, yama?

the point is the threat of the lynch

you use it actively as a tool to force people to play the game

you don't use it passively and hope they play the game


then do it? no one is stopping you

do you think he's town, or something?

Why do you wish to play foil?


xP i'm going to vote for who i think is scum, and i'm not interested in rushing a vote today. i think artie wanting to give bh/palmar time to participate isn't scum-favored and this whole push is silly -shrugs-

but he's actively using it as an excuse to do fuck-all himself.

Like, he's waiting on the two players in this game that I would have ZERO expectation to suddenly become active of their own free will.

Maybe you don't have the history with BH/Palmar but I do, and Artanis should know better than to passively wait for them to play.

I'm fine with the idea of not lynching today, but you can't just sit back and expect the game to come to you.


I was rereading Yamatos filter, and I really really like this post. and exchange
I don't like this exchange at all. Yamato77 was pressuring something that wasn't very relevant, past the point where Artanis proved his intention to be the opposite. Yamato77 kept up the pressure until Artanis specifically stated that his first quote wasn't entirely true, despite heavily implying this for quite some time.
On April 26 2015 07:49 Damdred wrote:
There is not a fundamental difference in how to play mafia even if you aren't spending 10 hours in a game.

You can convince people to vote on the person you want even if you spend 5 posts in a given phase doing so, rather than half heartidly putting shade on people as has been done previously.

For example X shouldnt' be the lynch it should be Y. Is all fine and good if its met with any substantial post explaining why exactly that person is scum which doesn't take a substantial amount of time to do. For example you quoted my read on truffle and then quoted his posts but drew no conclussions at all from my post, nor the implications of what that means.

This is a major red flag, nor do you give any real explanation on why they should lynch me just that I am full of fluff and my reads aren't as intricate. That is not a good reason o lynch someone
At least now that Artanis has explained it, his post on me was pretty good. Even if you misread it as I did (I would hope you didn't), you still see Artanis providing a ton of quotes and then clearly stating, this read progression doesn't make sense from a town perspective, therefore Trfel is scum.

What I missed, however, were all the rest of your posts. But they were actually quite good, and you clearly put a ton of effort into solving the game.
I just feel that scum are playing really well this game. I have good reasons to townread every player. It's quite frustrating.

Currently, the only real reason that I'm suspicious of Artanis is for his Damdred read. He did very well in Guardians by reading Damdred as town for his long, detailed analysis posts. However, Damdred saw that read, so it isn't valid any more, and Artanis should know that. Here is a detailed vote count analysis post that Damdred made as mafia. Also, here is a town Damdred filter where he does not make any long posts at all. By this point, Artanis ought to know that he can't read Damdred like this any more. Does it make him scum? I'm not sure. I need to filter dive him tomorrow, but I think he's most likely town.

By "weakest townreads", I arrive at a lynch pool of yamato77, Breshke, and Palmar. Though I know that's a horrid way to play.

I have my exam in seven hours, I need some sleep. I'll start there tomorrow.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 19:59 GMT
#1046
I just don't really know.

WaveofShadow has seemed really towny, but if I'm wrong on one of my townreads it's probably him.

I really doubt I want to lynch him today, but I'll take a look at what you guys are saying.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 20:20 GMT
#1048
On April 28 2015 05:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Please let me know what you find because the discussion leading up to the lynch today is pretty abysmal.
I will do so. Are you going to stick around until the lynch? Because it would be great to have someone to discuss things with, I haven't really interacted with people for a while in this game.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 20:22 GMT
#1050
Artanis, help me out?

How does one going about catching you, if you are mafia?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 20:50 GMT
#1053
Do you think there is anything to the inconsistency between WaveofShadow's claim that he never uses meta and that he actually uses meta a noticeable amount? And how he uses meta for some ( for example, Palmar), but refuses to use meta for others?
On April 22 2015 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
And there's still yamato who's done mostly shit all but be belligerent with me lately. (I'd call him town because his current not caring about the game currently is extremely town yamato but meta so fuck that)
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 21:24 GMT
#1055
Thoughts on WaveofShadow

On April 21 2015 12:08 WaveofShadow wrote:
They were real reads before I realized the premise was wrong. And why the fuck do I have to call you town?
Why are you fishing for townreads from me yamato? You're behaving so oddly, and it's not even your normal hyper-aggressive early game push that Im used to.

I just wanted to wreck scum with you for once. Just once. Apparently it was too much to ask.
He basically calls yamato77's play scummy, and then talks to him as if he is confirmed town. Throughout this whole early game argument with yamato77 and others, he never takes the next step to use it to investigate people's alignments, until yamato77 asks him. And then he basically gives the very same reads he started out with.

From there, he keeps probing and discussing. He asks some good questions, but he doesn't really push anything.
On April 22 2015 15:52 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 15:50 yamato77 wrote:
I'll read this shit later

I've lost my general will to be mafia for today

Fixed.
He has a lot of reads, including suspicion on me (Trfel), yamato77, and Blazinghand, but he isn't pushing them that much. However, at this time there hasn't been a good chance for a lynch, so maybe he wouldn't push until closer to the deadline.
On April 22 2015 23:53 WaveofShadow wrote:
Assuming BH is scum think the other scum might be Trfel but I havent had a chance to flesh that out much. Artanis' read on him is OK but relies way too much on meta for my liking.
What about his own read on me? He's mentioned it a few times in his filter to this point.
On April 23 2015 06:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 06:48 Trfel wrote:
I don't think there is any question that Blazinghand isn't playing to find scum here. He's obviously playing to survive, and not to find scum.

But from what I've heard of Blazinghand, I'm not sure that this actually makes him mafia? Would he play to live, at all costs, as town?

Meta, but I have lynched him twice before as town with zero resistance. I have also seen him put up a ridiculous fight as town when I was scum in Les Mafia. BH plays how he wants and changes how he plays each game as he pleases. I asked him a question he never responded to: if he was Wade Fell, a smurf where he went super aggro town, or Old Partner, a smurf where he played pretty damn well as scum but fake claimed and got caught by killing the role he fake claimed.
I make a point about Blazinghand, which from WaveofShadow's posts, he would disagree with. But he doesn't discuss this with me, instead he uses meta to cast suspicion on my Blazinghand scumread based on my reasoning. He's basically poking holes in everyone else's Blazinghand vote while still voting for Blazinghand himself, and I'm not sure why he would do this.

The way that WaveofShadow interacts with me here looks really bad to me. However, it has been recently pointed out to me that I am terribly biased against those who scumread me and favor those who townread me. Here's my thinking of why his stance on me is bad, but it's very possible that I am wrong, so I would like input from others.

He's basically saying that he doesn't understand how this post comes from town at all. He says that I'm trying to falsely portray yamato77 as mafia, but didn't bring up the best points on him that were brought up previously. He provides a reason for why I could be town because of this, but discounts it entirely for a nonsense reason. And finally, instead of asking me about this, he asks rsoultin, as if I am incapable of defending myself (which if he believes this is true, validates the reason that he just discounted for townreading me). This post doesn't actually look like he is trying to figure out my alignment.
On April 26 2015 03:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
Especially when you apply it incorrectly and presume that since Marv once told you that Yamato is absolutely terrible at scum, you figure he can't have 4 pages so far and have pushed some things.

Where did I do this? And no in my experience meta is shit terrible, and I am certainly not marv, one of very few people who can maybe attempt to use it correctly.

essentially the call is are we feeling lynchy or do we wait for yamato
And frankly by the time 48h rolls around im always feeling lynchy

I want to see a flip so I'll sheep rsoul
##unvote
##vote: yamato77
This flip on yamato77 happens fairly quickly after he moved him from sure scum to null (for yamato77's posting at the start of Day 2). WaveofShadow said that yamato77's activity often dropped off, and here is effectively voting him purely for inactivity (at least since the nullread earlier).
On April 26 2015 12:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 12:13 Damdred wrote:
Sad day im not higher and you have me linked with possible scum .

I actually think Yamato is towny in his filter I did a bit of research on yamatos scum games. He's not really destroying thread here and much more active than his sxum games. He has fallen off considerably this 48 hours and that is a red flag but he did the same thing in mini mafia 2 which just ended.

I don't think it 100% clears him but I think his filter is really indicative of a town Yamato at this point.

WARNING: META
Yamato's activity falls off in pretty much any game, but as scum it's just likely to be a hell of a lot more fall-off-y. As town he usually has some sort of catalyst that brings him back into the game whether pressure/scum lynch/something crazy happening and as scum that doesn't exist and he more or less gives up/shits things up as you said. This game has moved pretty slowly thus far and it's hard to tell here which is which even were I to use meta.

The other thing about mini mafia 2 is he's probably super demoralized from it for losing the game at LYLO.

On April 26 2015 11:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
BTW, it's shit like this that made me question Trfel about 100 times. It didn't take me that long to go through the posts I had missed/skimmed, so why does it take him hours to read like 3 pages when he says he's doing it?

If anyone's around I'm up to talk, though apparently my timing is shit compared to everyone else's. Gonna reread Trfel/Breshke/Damdred/Artanis in the meantime.
So, I'm his biggest scumread, and have been so for a while. But he's not pushing me, and not trying to find out about me. All he's doing is whining about other players' reads on me using meta, while not reiterating why my play is inherently scummy. And he's rehashing pointless arguments instead of actual reasons that I am mafia.

WaveofShadow's reads have been rather static, as well. The main change is his going back on his solid townread on Breshke, but I believe this read was changed after the thread sentiment.

Early on, WaveofShadow's play was quite good, but it did drop off lately (before his pre-announced activity drop). His reads were initially good, but he hasn't been really driving the discussion, investigating, or changing his reads to reflect new information. I'm not really sure what to think, given how good his play was earlier and how it changed.

I really think that I'd like to see WaveofShadow respond before I could lynch him. Given how active he's been, and how he played earlier in the game, I can't lynch him when he said he would be less active without giving him a fair chance to respond first.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 21:32 GMT
#1057
And suddenly I have somewhere to be.

I'll probably be back before End of Day, but no guarantees. Sorry.

I don't want to lynch Artanis, and I don't want to lynch yamato77.

Haven't gotten to Breshke yet. WaveofShadow could be a good lynch here, but I don't want to turn on him so quickly after the way he played for the earlier portion of this game. I could vote for him if someone is very convincing, but I'd probably just want to wait.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 23:49 GMT
#1109
I'm back. We aren't lynching today?

We probably ought to lynch tomorrow, then, if we can settle by then. I think we ought to.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 27 2015 23:56 GMT
#1112
On April 28 2015 07:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I kind of favour waiting another day as well with both Wave and a large number of other players basically being afk for the whole of today. I also want to make sure wave replies rather than getting lynched whilst afk. On that note:

##Unvote

Trfel, can you talk to me about people other than Wave too? It's neat that you don't want to lynch me but I'm curious as to the why. You asked me how to find out if I were scum. Did you do any research on your own after that?
I thought that your scumread on me was a weaker read. When you explained it, it actually made a lot of sense. Since then, you've been doing reasonable things and pushing good things. It's possible that you are mafia here, but it would take some work to find out. And I haven't done that work yet.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 00:04 GMT
#1117
On April 28 2015 09:03 Hapahauli wrote:
I have subjectively determined that little progress is being made in this game. I'll be imposing a 3-cycle cap to this day. You have 72 hours to lynch, or the day will end in a no-lynch.
I feel insulted....

It's okay, mafia isn't going to kill me, so at least I have a lot of time to get my game together.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 01:35 GMT
#1119
If anyone wants to talk, let me know. Otherwise I'll probably be studying.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 02:14 GMT
#1120
I guess, my biggest problem with this game is that it's really hard to find scum.

I'm not the only player who's said this. I'm just thinking that if it's this hard to find scum, it's far less reliable to scumread people for having fewer scumreads, or not pushing their scumreads (Breshke, WaveofShadow, to a lesser extent yamato77). And I'm really not sure what to do about that... I almost wish we had Blazinghand in the game, RNG pushing everyone. Perhaps at this point that would actually be a good strategy.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 02:35 GMT
#1122
On April 28 2015 11:29 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 11:14 Trfel wrote:
I guess, my biggest problem with this game is that it's really hard to find scum.

I'm not the only player who's said this. I'm just thinking that if it's this hard to find scum, it's far less reliable to scumread people for having fewer scumreads, or not pushing their scumreads (Breshke, WaveofShadow, to a lesser extent yamato77). And I'm really not sure what to do about that... I almost wish we had Blazinghand in the game, RNG pushing everyone. Perhaps at this point that would actually be a good strategy.


This is a very very understanding post.

The way I see it the lynch today will either be myself, wave or yamato maybe art on this list but i dont think so. I think it would be better to focus on these three (myself, wave yamato) and decide who we want to lynch because no lynching would be fairly bad.

As for my opinion I obviously do not want to lynch myself and I still want to lynch yamato.
Since you agree with me, what do you think/hope that town and you specifically (two separate questions) can do about it?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 03:01 GMT
#1132
WaveofShadow,

The main thing that I have a problem with in your play is that I don't really feel that you have been pushing your scumreads that hard. Do you mind explaining this for me?

Thanks!
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 03:38 GMT
#1146
Breshke

Normally, when I think of Breshke, the first thing that comes to mind is that he has some really good townreads. I'm just always impressed by what he comes up with.

But I'm not so sure that I see this here.
  • Breshke's townreads
    + Show Spoiler +
    Artanis[Xp]
    On April 21 2015 09:34 Breshke wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 21 2015 09:32 rsoultin wrote:
    On April 21 2015 09:31 Breshke wrote:
    On April 21 2015 09:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
    On April 21 2015 09:24 yamato77 wrote:
    I told wave he'd be the day 1 lynch

    let's make it happen, people

    ##vote: waveofshadow

    I'm ok with any lynch that isn't me since I need to overtake kita in the not lynched as town percentage tab. Therefore, any lynch that is not me furthers this condition and I support this lynch.
    ##Vote WaveofShadow


    tentative town read for this post.


    lol seriously? xP


    Yeah haha all jokes aside in my limited experiance with art ive never seen him mention stats before so him referencing town stats and relating it to this game just seems like a weird way for a scum artanis to open.

    This is obviously very weak hence the tentative part.
    Breshke elaborates on his Artanis townread here, but I just don't find it impressive at all. He is correct that Artanis seems to be reevaluating things, but Artanis is such a good player that the posts in question aren't really worthy of a townread.

    WaveofShadow
    On April 22 2015 10:50 Breshke wrote:
    Show nested quote +
    On April 22 2015 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
    Wtf this pressure on Artanis is fucking weird.
    Like I'm super cynical that palmar and BH will ever contribute and I have an idea Artanis knows where I'm coming from, but these points of attack are weird and putting words in his mouth. Yamato what you said doesn't even make any sesne
    Can't quote atm cause on phone but how is what you said even remotely what Artanis is doing?

    And rsoul you get bored a lot for someone who is talking nonstop.


    I really really like this post. Wave joins artanis in my "can't see lynching" list. If wave is mafia his frustration this game is from him being wagoned early so being on the back foot trying to survive from the get go. The stuff about yamato's push is not really alignment indicative for him even though I fully agree with his view point.

    I'm not sure if i can explain this well but the last sentence on rsoul seems like it couldnt come from a scum wave as why would he randomly antagonize someone. Like he is clearly frustrated and if he is frustrated scum he would be trying to make friends not trying to piss people off.
    I don't see what it is about this post that makes Breshke like it so much. WaveofShadow says something that is obvious and doesn't result in any conclusions, and then adds a vague poke at rsoultin. And this results in a solid townread.

    rsoultin
    On April 23 2015 08:39 Breshke wrote:
    Haha i actually think you are likely town now rso. Youve saud some stuff while i was asleep that I liked.


    Palmar
    On April 25 2015 19:55 Breshke wrote:
    Palmar is my #4 town
    It's assumed that this is because Breshke is sheeping Palmar's case on yamato77.
    On April 28 2015 08:39 Breshke wrote:
    Palmar
    Legit dno how to read him. His play as scum here pushing on a townWos seems fairly absurd because if he knew WoS was going to flip town saying stuff like he will take all the blame seems odd because yes he could fight against this later but i get the feeling that he wouldn't set himself up to have to put in that much effort. So I find it unlikely that a scum palmar pushes on a town WoS but can see worlds where a scum palmar pushes on a scum WoS or a town palmar pushes on a town/scum WoS. I get this is associations or whatever but I don't know how else to get a grasp on his allighnment
    This is a weird post, because he completely ignores Palmar's push on yamato77 (who is Breshke's top scumread).

    Damdred
    On April 26 2015 07:14 Breshke wrote:
    Im gonna stop derailing u and damdred cos yourshit seems productive and I cant do shit all on phone. Be round later unlrss we lynch


I also feel that Breshke's pushes are sort of just following thread sentiment.
  • Sheeps Damdred onto Blazinghand
    + Show Spoiler +
    On April 22 2015 12:03 Breshke wrote:
    ##Vote Blazinghand

    I think damdred has explained this best already and I am already town reading a lot of people and unless i misinterpreted some time stamps we are overdue for some BH goodness.
    I'm not terribly impressed.
    On April 22 2015 12:23 Breshke wrote:
    As for scum I don't really have anything concrete right now but I don't like that you town read yamato and basically have the entire game yet in this post here
    Ignoring the argument with rsoultin for now. However, this is before Blazinghand's return and case on Damdred, so we can assume that his push on Blazinghand is merely a pressure.
    On April 23 2015 08:16 Breshke wrote:
    Morning

    Yamatos point is strictly correct like we dont lose anything by giving BH an extra day.

    That being said I still want to lynch him
    On April 23 2015 08:41 Breshke wrote:
    The thing is like i really wont blame anyome currently voting BH if they unvote to give it an extra day. It wont be me though and I have a feeling we are going to lynch him anyway
    What changed.... I don't understand why Breshke is basically asking for people to not lynch Blazinghand, while saying that he won't do it himself. This just doesn't make sense to me. If he's willing to not blame people for unvoting, then he should be willing to unvote himself and take whatever flak he gets from it if he's town.

  • Sheeps Palmar onto yamato77
    + Show Spoiler +
    On April 25 2015 10:22 Breshke wrote:
    ##vote Yamato

    I like palmars case don't get why people thought he ment they had to be mafia together. I think him referencing yamato not interacting with his case on WoS shows that he wasn't actually looking for an alternative to the BH lynch as from what i can tell he still didn't like wave at EoD yet failed to bring him up at all.

    I think this read can stand by tiself from his wave read since I still disagree with him on that i think wave is town.
    On April 27 2015 18:30 Breshke wrote:
    I still think yamato is mafia.

    There are a few things about his play that don't make sense to me from a town perspective. First of all his not wanting to lynch BH and wanting to extend the day. This is strange because he knew he would be busy on the weekends and still not having someone to push instead of BH I don't understand how he thought he would have time to evaluate the game and find a misslynch when he clearly didn't have much time to play.

    Secondly his rant about how IML it is important to pressure people with the vote. The past couple cycles no one has really been pressured except yamato who was not present of any of these cycles until the most recent one. yamato had time to do some analysis which didn't end up with him voting anyone or really pressuring anyone which he earlier said was vital for town to do. Basically I just see it as him saying stuff but not backing it up with actual actions.

    I also don't understand his artanis posts because he never actually voted for yamato which yamato seems to think happend.


    ##Vote Yamato
    The first quote is just sheeping. The second quote, he adds some original thought. However, there are a few obvious holes in this. Given that Breshke is usually cautious in his scumreads, this is somewhat unexpected that he would be this certain and not give possibility of doubt.
But the problem is, I don't really see scummy things that Breshke is doing. It's more that I'm not seeing things that I would expect to see. And that makes it difficult for me to scumread him.

I really like Breshke, and I do feel bad for mislynching him in Guardians, but I just don't see the insightful reads that I normally do. So he could be a good lynch here after all.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 03:42 GMT
#1147
I mean, Breshke has made some very good comments, and said some good things. But they don't result in reads. His reads result from things that I generally don't find very interesting (or things that had been clearly said before).
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 03:45 GMT
#1152
On April 28 2015 12:44 rsoultin wrote:
heh truffle's case is more or less what i've been saying all game so i'm not sure that i even need to read it o.0 maybe he'll present it in a better way though
Nope, I don't think you need to read it.

I think that the one thing I found that was actually notable was the way he dealt with the Blazinghand lynch near the deadline, though that's probably been mentioned already.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 03:46 GMT
#1153
On April 28 2015 12:45 Breshke wrote:
Also the doubt in the scumreads thing is kinda similar to guardians where yeah i have doubt but I don't really have space to show it. Ended up me pushing for at least one town lynch in guardians so maybe I should rethink that.
And that is the hole in the argument.

Sorry, it's a new thing I've been trying, to not put explanations in people's mouths, even if it seems darn obvious.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 03:48 GMT
#1154
On April 27 2015 20:51 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
And where do you get 'stay alive-y' from Palmar?
He's been coming in and posting at pretty random times and none of i is when he's under suspicion or anything, and you don't feel as though he has an agenda even though he's pushed me (and to a lesser extent yamato) nonstop?

I don't udnerstand though how Palmar immediately townreads yamato just because of his few posts last night tbh

I don't townread him. I just think it's less likely he's mafia than you, hence I moved my vote.
Breshke, Palmar didn't flip on yamato77. He just decided that WaveofShadow was a better lynch.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 03:53 GMT
#1161
On April 28 2015 12:49 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 12:48 Trfel wrote:
On April 27 2015 20:51 Palmar wrote:
On April 27 2015 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
And where do you get 'stay alive-y' from Palmar?
He's been coming in and posting at pretty random times and none of i is when he's under suspicion or anything, and you don't feel as though he has an agenda even though he's pushed me (and to a lesser extent yamato) nonstop?

I don't udnerstand though how Palmar immediately townreads yamato just because of his few posts last night tbh

I don't townread him. I just think it's less likely he's mafia than you, hence I moved my vote.
Breshke, Palmar didn't flip on yamato77. He just decided that WaveofShadow was a better lynch.

Oh rearry

Show nested quote +
On April 27 2015 03:39 Palmar wrote:
Quickly skimmed Yamato since he came back. Moving my vote to waveofshadow

##unvote
##vote waveofshadow


I think it's less likely that Yamato is mafia now so that kinda puts artanis back on the table

Yeah, that's not really a flip. That's changing from certain scumread to sort of scumread.

I don't know, Breshke. I just don't know.

I need to head out now, I'll check the thread in a bit. I do think I need to read yamato77 again, since both WaveofShadow and Breshke want to lynch him, and he's one of the three unofficial "lynch candidates".
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 04:08 GMT
#1174
Well, I wanted to go practice trumpet, but I was a minute late and the building closed. Guess I'm playing a bit more mafia.

I'll look at the posts that WaveofShadow and Artanis are townreading Breshke for.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 04:09 GMT
#1175
On April 28 2015 12:48 Breshke wrote:
Oh and the BH stuff basically I wanted to lynch him that day but would have understood if someone didn't as we probably would have ended up lynching him anyway so if someone voting him wanted to unvote and give it more time i was fine with that but I didn't feel like i needed more time myself.

I also think I was reading most of the people on the wagon town at the time aswell
I don't really understand this stance at all. Breshke has explained it clearly enough, but I don't see town having this perspective.

Do others understand Breshke's stance here?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 04:19 GMT
#1190
Okay, okay, I get it.

STOP ARGUING

It's really not something you need to be arguing about.

WaveofShadow's perspective

Breshke and Trfel are somewhat similar, however Breshke has made several posts that I can't see scum making while Trfel has not.

rsoultin's perspective

Breshke and Trfel are somewhat similar, however Trfel has produced some original content while Breshke has not.

Settled?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 04:37 GMT
#1197
On April 28 2015 13:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:19 Trfel wrote:
Okay, okay, I get it.

STOP ARGUING

It's really not something you need to be arguing about.

WaveofShadow's perspective

Breshke and Trfel are somewhat similar, however Breshke has made several posts that I can't see scum making while Trfel has not.

rsoultin's perspective

Breshke and Trfel are somewhat similar, however Trfel has produced some original content while Breshke has not.

Settled?

No it's not because that point is shit if that's what rsoul is saying. Breshke has produced absolutely plenty.
What did I miss in this post?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 04:43 GMT
#1202
On April 28 2015 13:40 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 13:37 Trfel wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
On April 28 2015 13:19 Trfel wrote:
Okay, okay, I get it.

STOP ARGUING

It's really not something you need to be arguing about.

WaveofShadow's perspective

Breshke and Trfel are somewhat similar, however Breshke has made several posts that I can't see scum making while Trfel has not.

rsoultin's perspective

Breshke and Trfel are somewhat similar, however Trfel has produced some original content while Breshke has not.

Settled?

No it's not because that point is shit if that's what rsoul is saying. Breshke has produced absolutely plenty.
What did I miss in this post?


This isn't directed at me but there was one of my pushes you missed which might be the reason ive been off this game
Hm, who was the push on? And why?

At the moment, were I to vote, I think I would vote for Breshke. But I need to check the points that WaveofShadow mentions first. I think I'll need to spend quite some time working on this tomorrow to really decide the best lynch.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 04:54 GMT
#1209
On April 22 2015 14:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 13:38 Breshke wrote:
Ill properly read the bh thing later.

Damdred can you talk to me about rso. Why is she so townie to you like she makes me feel like an ass but i remember getting that feeling last game when she was scum as well.

On April 22 2015 13:03 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 12:57 Breshke wrote:
On April 22 2015 12:50 rsoultin wrote:
On April 22 2015 12:42 Breshke wrote:
On April 22 2015 12:30 rsoultin wrote:
-shrugs- you can call it defensive if you want. i hate being misrepresented as either alignment, and i already had let it go a couple times before that xP

so give me something not concrete

i can see where you're coming from with damdy...but not so much with artanis, cause that's a pretty weak read lol >< if it's only based on the same posts you townread him for last time he was in the thread

as far as damdy is concerned, trying to get a lynch started with so little time before the 24hr mark doesn't sit well with me...i was actually warming up to him before that


That was my non conrete thing. There 8 players other than me. I'm townreading 4 out of 8 of those players. 2 of the remaining are not involved in the game so difficult to read. The remaining two yourself and yamato have been town reading each other most of the game, does this mean anything? Probably not even if it does I can't use it right now. I just read your filter and will probably read yamatos soon. That is like exactly where I am at at the moment.

Also I had that problem with damdy aswell but then this made me feel better about it

On April 22 2015 12:12 Damdred wrote:
On April 22 2015 11:07 Breshke wrote:
Ohh damdred I forgot to ask. Did you actually want to lynch artanis? Or were you just trying to get stuff to happen?


More of the later than the former I think, I don't like artie going about the game like he is though.



okay gonna be honest with you here...i don't need everyone to townread me and i get that you just came out of a scumgame with me, but that some of these townreads of yours are so fucking thin and the core of your "non-concrete sorta scum" is poe oh rsoul and yama were townreading each other is pretty bullshit in my eyes

i'll take another look at everyone tomorrow when i'm less irritated, but it's not happening tonight

quite simply, when you don't have scumreads that's usually a bad sign. but i've just come out of a game where you were town and defaulting to plynches so...though i still think your scumreads are even less noteworthy this game than in that one, i need to reread everything

tomorrow


Yeah im bad at scum and my meta is i cant push on people but you arn't using that in context if you are town. Do you have a scumread yourself? No you are pushing BH with me. This is a smaller game and you yourself don't have a scumread so I don't understand why you would try compare this game to my scum meta when obviously if you are town it isn't that easy to find scum this game.

Just coming out of a game where you being scum does affect my reads. I realize im probably biast hence why I was letting it go and trying to egt more information but frankly you are very similar this game to last. You're in the thread commenting on stuff but you arn't actually doing anything.


that is exactly why i have no desire to play tonight

if ppl can honest to god sit here and say (not just you) that i haven't been doing anything this game you're illiterate or scum or just plain bad and it's pissing me off to the point that i don't think i can approach this game objectively

lol i myself don't have a scumread? i haven't been doing anything? you think because I'm voting BH right now I don't have a scumread?! i've said what i think about pretty much every player in the game and you have the fucking gall to say i haven't pushed anyone, pointed anything out, come to any conclusions, have any scumreads ><

you know what, if you're scum and your purpose was to put me on tilt, congratulations. you've succeeded. i wouldn't even put it past you to be scum with yamato hoping to try to establish a connection between me and him, making this arbitrary association between us every opportunity you get...well screw that ><

i'm not doing this tonight -_- i'll revisit in the morning


Like that bolded bit is so weird to come from someone who has been townreading yamato all game but i get if she is town she is frustrated but I don't put it past her to be able to fake it as scum.

So basically give me your read on her.

Really like this post.
Breshke you town bro?

Like....this explanation for the oddness really isn't enough. You go from 'slightly less townread' on yamato to full on scum setting you up, and the paranoia doesn't look real. The rage might be though, and it would be hypocritical of me to assume otherwise.
I don't see why this post makes Breshke town at all. Breshke commented on something that rsoultin said that was really, really strange. I don't really think it's alignment indicative so much as just weird, and I don't see why this is hard for Breshke to say.
On April 23 2015 08:54 WaveofShadow wrote:
I would post something but I am never the night kill.

I dunno. Look into yamato trfel and maybe palmar?
Also can't help but paranoia on rsoul but that's probably last resort
actually there are very few people i do completely trust now that i think of it.
Artanis and breshke.
And you only mention one reason to townread Breshke before jumping to completely trusting him.

And then a bunch of doubting the Breshke townread. And then this.
On April 26 2015 10:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
I know I'm like octupleposting here so I'll try to put all my thoughts into this last one.
I still really hate how everybody's reads on Trfel all seem to be meta-based.
Damdred's, Rsouls, Artanis's (mostly). It's like nobody attempts to read the guy based on what he has done within this game, and that's what really bugs me about meta use. All it takes is one game for scum to pick up on what they know you know about them and they turn it against you, even IF you were right 100% of the time before that.

Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 06:57 Breshke wrote:
I dont have much time ill have to leave soon and be gone for like an hour after deadline but rso your points seems to explain eachother.

I dont have any scunreads just a bunch of townreads then palamar drops a good casr on yama who is.not ome of my townreads so i dont see whats wrong with sheeping this. (what reasons do you even scumread yama for like couldnt you say your reasons are other peoples reasons aswell)

then to find the last scum I PoE and damdred and srt hadnt impressed me today when normally i feel like they are high impact players.


Ehhhhh I find this post hard to come from scum tbh. The others too. Except for this one...just rubs me the wrong way a little even if it's true.
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 07:14 Breshke wrote:
Im gonna stop derailing u and damdred cos yourshit seems productive and I cant do shit all on phone. Be round later unlrss we lynch

Can't explain that one exactly. It just looks like a post that is specifically tailored to make him look good? I dunno.
Probably wouldn't lynch breshke today though. Might want to see some real stuff when he comes back though. Like really real.

Show nested quote +
On April 26 2015 07:40 rsoultin wrote:
On April 26 2015 07:32 Breshke wrote:
On April 26 2015 07:27 rsoultin wrote:
On April 26 2015 05:50 rsoultin wrote:
yo, wave, that bragging bit you were saying was unlikely to come from a scum yama? xP

he only started talking about it after i followed up on truffle's point that yamato's view of bh was contradictory (lazy as fuck -> he'll put forth the effort if given the chance), so...don't think that argument in favor of yamato's play holds water

i don't think his push on you early on was terrible? the one against artanis was pretty blah though -_- and having no alternative after pushing hard at you and artanis and even saying he didn't like damdy, then disappearing for 40 minutes before the lynch after saying we should give bh more time, just looks bad, frankly

On April 24 2015 10:29 yamato77 wrote:
On April 24 2015 10:24 rsoultin wrote:
strategy talk aside i'm actually fine with how you handled the bh lynch, though...looks pretty natural at a second look

mmmmrrrrt i was supposed to be doing schoolwork >< you distractions xP

while you're doing that, I'll be formulating updated reads


also this was almost 48 hours ago lol >< and no, no new reads


that is mostly why i am scumreading yamato yes...do i need more reasons that that, really?


No lol this is my point exactly. This is good enough to scumread yama.

But if you think this is original and not just a sheep pf palmars thing your kidding yourself.


i think it is quite amusing that you are trying to compare my alignment to yours by saying that i'm sheeping palmar, too (i never claimed not to be) when i actually have brought original scumreads/suspicions to the table (including on yamato) and you have not at all on anyone with the notable exception of saying that we were two of your non-townreads who townread each other...which means essentially zilch anyway

you know who else i'm sheeping? truffle xP his second point is one of the points i agree with and i think makes yamato more likely scum

the 40 minutes comment was entirely mine, and also that his "bragging" isn't alignment indicative when he was asked about his contradiction in reads on BH

now go do something worthwhile, like address the actual reason i'm scumreading you, rather than trying to compare us to one another. you're not me

I commented on this and I don't agree. At this point I'm not entirely sure why I'm defending him though because he really has done shit all aside from a few good posts and a couple things I think are hard to come from scum. Bleh. Still seems like best lynch overall.

Damdred v Artanis I think I need more time. Artanis is hard.
I don't understand why WaveofShadow townreads Breshke for the first quoted post, I think it's actually somewhat scummy. But the phrase "Might want to see some real stuff when he comes back though. Like really real." stands out to me quite a bit. I will see how he follows through with this.
On April 28 2015 11:47 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 11:46 Breshke wrote:
On April 28 2015 11:35 Trfel wrote:
On April 28 2015 11:29 Breshke wrote:
On April 28 2015 11:14 Trfel wrote:
I guess, my biggest problem with this game is that it's really hard to find scum.

I'm not the only player who's said this. I'm just thinking that if it's this hard to find scum, it's far less reliable to scumread people for having fewer scumreads, or not pushing their scumreads (Breshke, WaveofShadow, to a lesser extent yamato77). And I'm really not sure what to do about that... I almost wish we had Blazinghand in the game, RNG pushing everyone. Perhaps at this point that would actually be a good strategy.


This is a very very understanding post.

The way I see it the lynch today will either be myself, wave or yamato maybe art on this list but i dont think so. I think it would be better to focus on these three (myself, wave yamato) and decide who we want to lynch because no lynching would be fairly bad.

As for my opinion I obviously do not want to lynch myself and I still want to lynch yamato.
Since you agree with me, what do you think/hope that town and you specifically (two separate questions) can do about it?


Town should focus the lynch between the three players I stated to ensure we get a lynch that is discussed and what not and just not agreed upon at the very end of the last phase. Obviously if someone finds something important then yeah do that and this plan doesn't work for wave at all because he town-reads me and yam

Personally I want to lynch yamato because I think he currently has the best chance of flipping scum

I agree with this and I am not flipping Breshke today because the only person pushing has been rsoul and I don't think her case has any merit.


Oh wow I forgot about Damdred completely.

Uh.,..that in itself weirds me out.
Did he do stuff today?
But this was only for a short while, and has been reversed? I don't really understand why this results in a townread. Breshke is a strong enough player to push rsoultin.

I guess my conclusion is that WaveofShadow's townread on Breshke doesn't make sense to me at all, at least not with the explanations he provided.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 05:03 GMT
#1212
Breshke, do you understand WaveofShadow's read progression and townread justification on you?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 05:20 GMT
#1216
If anyone has any more questions for me, feel free, but I think I'll stop doing analysis tonight.

I just keep going back and forth between WaveofShadow and Breshke. I guess maybe I could even lynch yamato77, but probably not. Hopefully when I'm more awake I'll have better thoughts.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 14:49 GMT
#1225
I came back to the thread hoping for lots of new information.

I am underwhelmed.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 15:22 GMT
#1227
Decisions, decisions...

##vote WaveofShadow

I really, really, really hope I'm right.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 17:56 GMT
#1235
On April 29 2015 02:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And I lied, I'm not going to check Breshke today because not enough people want to lynch him. I will check Yamato though.
I am willing to lynch Breshke.

I would appreciate it if you checked Breshke?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 18:35 GMT
#1240
On April 29 2015 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think I might actually want to lynch Yamato. Going through a few of his towngames he comments on so many more things than he has this game, where he's been really fixated on a very small amount of things (BH whom he didn't really have a strong read on one way or the other but still comments on, the thing I commented on regarding Palmar/BH, and later just tunneling on me with a passerby comment on Trfel until I'm no longer a popular target when he just jumps the bandwagon onto Wave). It feels like his radar is much smaller than it usually is on towngames. I scrolled through Guilty, for example, and pretty much every post comments on someone else. LXVII, same thing though less so. Devil, same thing.

Problem is that his play isn't really similar to his last scumgame where he tried either (Survivor). However, I'd argue that Yamato has commented on how much he's disliked playing scum (it's in the big post at the end of Survivor). I'd also argue that his focus on small things/singular people is easier to do than his usual towngame. It also feels very convenient how his reads match town sentiment all the time, swapping to lynching Wave as soon as I'm no longer a viable target.
But there are a few holes that I see in this.

First, I don't think that it is inherently anti-town to focus on one thing at a time and jump around like yamato77 has been doing. What really matters is how you evaluate and consider everything at the key times (approaching a lynch), and yamato77 seems to be willing to consider everything when he is evaluating potential lynches.

As for following the thread sentiment and not commenting on as much, it is a smaller game, and it is a slower game. To be honest, I don't feel like there is generally much to talk about that isn't the "thread sentiment".

So while this doesn't look good for yamato77, and I could see myself lynching him, I can't confidently say that this makes him scum.

Sort of like how I can't confidently scumread Breshke for having no unique pushes this game.
On January 18 2015 12:43 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2015 12:39 Damdred wrote:
So you have no scum leans at least?


None its shit i know.

I'm going through and rereading again, especially the longer posts like geripts because i didn't really read them well.

Who is your biggest scum right now?
In addition to Breshke being cautious with his scumreads, this is a hard game.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 18:39 GMT
#1242
But if you're saying that this isn't how yamato77 normally plays... Which I suppose is the impression that I got from the first part of his filter in Student V, but again, this is a slower game and it has fewer people...

And his inactivity as of late is suspicious as well.

I guess I just have a really hard time seeing how meta applies so specifically to this game. And thus WaveofShadow is probably the best lynch using only simple meta that would still apply to a 9 player, slow game.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 18:58 GMT
#1249
On April 29 2015 03:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 03:35 Trfel wrote:
On April 29 2015 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I think I might actually want to lynch Yamato. Going through a few of his towngames he comments on so many more things than he has this game, where he's been really fixated on a very small amount of things (BH whom he didn't really have a strong read on one way or the other but still comments on, the thing I commented on regarding Palmar/BH, and later just tunneling on me with a passerby comment on Trfel until I'm no longer a popular target when he just jumps the bandwagon onto Wave). It feels like his radar is much smaller than it usually is on towngames. I scrolled through Guilty, for example, and pretty much every post comments on someone else. LXVII, same thing though less so. Devil, same thing.

Problem is that his play isn't really similar to his last scumgame where he tried either (Survivor). However, I'd argue that Yamato has commented on how much he's disliked playing scum (it's in the big post at the end of Survivor). I'd also argue that his focus on small things/singular people is easier to do than his usual towngame. It also feels very convenient how his reads match town sentiment all the time, swapping to lynching Wave as soon as I'm no longer a viable target.
But there are a few holes that I see in this.

First, I don't think that it is inherently anti-town to focus on one thing at a time and jump around like yamato77 has been doing. What really matters is how you evaluate and consider everything at the key times (approaching a lynch), and yamato77 seems to be willing to consider everything when he is evaluating potential lynches.

As for following the thread sentiment and not commenting on as much, it is a smaller game, and it is a slower game. To be honest, I don't feel like there is generally much to talk about that isn't the "thread sentiment".

So while this doesn't look good for yamato77, and I could see myself lynching him, I can't confidently say that this makes him scum.

Sort of like how I can't confidently scumread Breshke for having no unique pushes this game.
On January 18 2015 12:43 Breshke wrote:
On January 18 2015 12:39 Damdred wrote:
So you have no scum leans at least?


None its shit i know.

I'm going through and rereading again, especially the longer posts like geripts because i didn't really read them well.

Who is your biggest scum right now?
In addition to Breshke being cautious with his scumreads, this is a hard game.

There's a difference between only commenting on things that town sentiment is talking about and literally following all of thread sentiment. I don't think Yamato has swayed from it in anything other than BH, but even then he didn't push it in any real way which actually makes him look worse. The only thing that actually makes me doubt on him is the way he treated me and took a reasonable approach regarding me. It felt kinda townie, but I can't ignore the rest of the game.
Yamato's recent analyses of you and WaveofShadow were actually fairly good. And he was being reasonable.

His inactivity is concerning, and he has been jumping around in his focus, but I just can't feel comfortable lynching him....

Part of me just wants to lynch all three (Breshke, WaveofShadow, and yamato77) and hope that both scum are between them. I'm just having such a hard time getting significantly more confident in any one lynch.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 19:00 GMT
#1251
On April 29 2015 03:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If you could point out some of the original thoughts he had in Guardians that he feels lacking in here that'd help a lot, though I can imagine it's difficult to point them out after the game.
Breshke was among my strongest townreads in Student VII (I replaced in) for having a ton of great townreads and insightful comments.

Yes, it's a student game, but I haven't seen a single instance of these insightful comments from Breshke in this game. He's been sensible, but not inspiring.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 19:06 GMT
#1258
This post from Guardians already looks more insightful than almost all of Breshke's posts in this game, for example. And I didn't have to look very far at all before I found it, it's his third post of the game, haha.

This post is pretty good too.

Here, he makes an observation and finds something suspicious.

And that's just in his first page of filter. I guess that game isn't necessarily the best example, as his posting rate was so low and he was behind the thread for most of it, but I noticed the same thing to a much higher degree in Student VII.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 19:12 GMT
#1260
Artanis, I have a really really stupid tone read question for you.

For most of this game, WaveofShadow has been frustrated and mad, or at least seemed that way to me.

Since he started being scumread, his tone became very reasonable and withdrawn, he didn't feel frustrated at all (the notable exception being his argument with rsoultin). But that seems to be a strange difference for me.

One possible explanation is that he spent most of this time discussing with me (who apparently he has decided is extremely weak and sensitive, thus he can't show frustration or I will go cry to my mommy). But I'm not sure that I buy this, so I wonder if that makes him look more scummy.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 19:16 GMT
#1263
On April 29 2015 04:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 04:12 Trfel wrote:
Artanis, I have a really really stupid tone read question for you.

For most of this game, WaveofShadow has been frustrated and mad, or at least seemed that way to me.

Since he started being scumread, his tone became very reasonable and withdrawn, he didn't feel frustrated at all (the notable exception being his argument with rsoultin). But that seems to be a strange difference for me.

One possible explanation is that he spent most of this time discussing with me (who apparently he has decided is extremely weak and sensitive, thus he can't show frustration or I will go cry to my mommy). But I'm not sure that I buy this, so I wonder if that makes him look more scummy.

Did you not feel that towards the end of his filter yesterday he was becoming much more angry?

Also, don't get me wrong, I still find Wave very suspicious and I'm actually quite torn between Wave/Yamato.
Well, that was when he was fighting with rsoultin, and I don't really see how WaveofShadow would possibly not be angry there.

On April 28 2015 12:11 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 28 2015 12:01 Trfel wrote:
WaveofShadow,

The main thing that I have a problem with in your play is that I don't really feel that you have been pushing your scumreads that hard. Do you mind explaining this for me?

Thanks!

Look at the times I've been around and what I've talked about. Before I very recently townread you, look at all the posts I've made about you, and the times rsoul responded to me.
That was all pushing you. I also pushed yamato yesterday. (And for the record not pushing a scumread 'that hard' isn't in itself a good scumread imo, but whatevs)
Whether or not you or the rest of the thread 'feels' like I've been doing it doesn't really matter a great deal to me.
I mean the only thing I suppose I can admit to is that my timing hasn't been amazing and the times I have been around while other people were, I sort of joined discussion where I could.
This is probably the quote that stands out the most, I think. I basically make a comment that most would find insulting (even though I worded it really cautiously), and WaveofShadow responds completely reasonably and open. He isn't frustrated at all.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 19:38 GMT
#1265
I'm just not confident in my own analysis skills to figure this out.

But if it were up to me....

Breshke is the "safe" lynch, in that I don't feel he has done strong pushes or been driving the thread at any point. But while he hasn't been leading the thread, and he hasn't been inspiring, he's still been reasonable. I'm just not convinced that he is mafia, though, but I'm also not sure if more time would help.

WaveofShadow has been doing lots of things, and he has the second longest filter in the game. His tone generally feels natural (except for recently), and he's been making some good reads and comments. However, he hasn't been pushing his reads with that much force, seems slightly apathetic towards lynches, and has a strong townread on Breshke which I really don't understand at all. Not sure that more time will help much with him, either, because he is busy now.

Yamato77 has been jumping at a bunch of different scumreads, and focuses only on one thing at a time. He doesn't seem to follow up with these scumreads very much at all. Still, his analysis has largely been good, and his tone is very reasonable. Apparently his reads have only been following the thread sentiment, though I haven't fact-checked this yet (particularly early on in the game, it felt that when he was in the thread, he was driving the thread sentiment).

I feel like whatever decision I make will end up being the wrong one. But for now I still just feel a bit more confident in WaveofShadow being mafia than the others.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 19:39 GMT
#1266
I'm going to go play frisbee soon, I should be back before End of Day. Any thoughts, insights, whatever would be extremely appreciated, I just am really confused.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 19:50 GMT
#1267
I should add, it is strange that yamato77 hasn't been doing much lately. Especially when he came back this morning and didn't contribute much. Perhaps that's more of a reason to vote for him over WaveofShadow.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 22:54 GMT
#1312
I'm really not happy with yamato77's posting as of late.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 22:55 GMT
#1315
Breshke, can you briefly summarize why you think that yamato77 is scum, and why his play can't come from town?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:10 GMT
#1322
On April 29 2015 08:08 Breshke wrote:
Also trfel you shouldnt compare my pla in a student game to normal games I find it a lot easier to try be a big player when im not one of the least experienced.
Yeah, I feel the same way, but I demonstrated the same points in Guardians of the Galaxy. I try to use meta in really general ways.

You know, I might actually want to switch to yamato77.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:13 GMT
#1324
On April 23 2015 08:12 yamato77 wrote:
I'll freely admit I don't have a better lynch at this second but it's not really important to, at this point
Yamato77, can you please explain this quote? From Day 1, near the lynch deadline.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:15 GMT
#1326
Yeah, maybe it is just that simple.

##unvote
##vote yamato77
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:19 GMT
#1331
On April 29 2015 08:17 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 08:15 Trfel wrote:
Yeah, maybe it is just that simple.

##unvote
##vote yamato77

I don't want to be a dick

but this is truly pointless
There's a very good reason.

I just want to see reactions before I share it.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:31 GMT
#1349
Yamato77, towards the end of Day 1, did you think that Artanis was mafia?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:35 GMT
#1356
Yamato77 on Artanis

On April 22 2015 06:13 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
That doesn't force anything. They'll participate if they feel like it this game.

Well, they can continue to do nothing, and then we can lynch them then bitch about them not playing to their win condition. The point is, we can give them time due to there not being a hard deadline, so there's no excuses for them not to participate.

artanis, is this seriously your plan this game?
The start of yamato77's first push on Artanis.

On April 22 2015 06:39 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:32 yamato77 wrote:
On April 22 2015 06:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Yes look at all the waiting I'm doing.

you're responding to PRESSURE

you aren't the one doing the pressing

big difference

I'm responding to idiots being idiots and it's unfortunate as I could have spent that time playing GTA5.

Actually, I couldn't because it's not installed yet, but that's semantics.

so you freely admit you don't actually care to play the game beyond wasting time waiting for Palmar/BH?

alright

##unvote
##Vote: Artanis
Follows up with his vote.
On April 23 2015 07:28 yamato77 wrote:
I don't like Artanis' post where he comments on the case offhandedly and then votes trfel
More things he doesn't like about Artanis.
On April 23 2015 07:39 yamato77 wrote:
Artanis!

Seems like you and I have the same problem with trfel, haha.
Something good about Artanis.
On April 23 2015 07:50 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 23 2015 07:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 23 2015 07:45 yamato77 wrote:
On April 23 2015 07:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH deserves to be lynched for not posting the British Empire Mafia post-game analysis anyway.

So you consent to the BH lynch, Artanis?

or...?

I don't oppose it. I honestly have no idea what he'll flip but a bunch of people look townier and I don't think I'll ever be confident in reading him as town so him going today is fine.

-pukes on keyboard-
And something else bad about Artanis.

Now, look at his comments on the Blazinghand lynch.
On April 23 2015 07:27 yamato77 wrote:
alright, so the BH case in and of itself isn't really that bad

honestly, the BH that does this whole martyring thing has been town in the past

I've also seen him be scum and use delay tactics, but is this really a delay tactic?

I'm unsure about this lynch, bros
On April 23 2015 08:12 yamato77 wrote:
I'll freely admit I don't have a better lynch at this second but it's not really important to, at this point
So Artanis, who he is still voting for, and shared all these suspicions of, is not a better lynch than Blazinghand (who he really doesn't seem to want to lynch)?

Blazinghand gets lynched. Start of Day 2, yamato77 posts this.
On April 24 2015 10:13 yamato77 wrote:
But all that's really here nor there. It's a different day now.

I still think Artanis looks pretty bad. Thoughts on wagon were subpar
So Artanis looks pretty bad, for reasons that existed at the end of Day 1, but wasn't a better lynch than Blazinghand?

The only possibility I see for this being town motivated is that yamato77 was doing a pressure on Artanis, not a serious scumread. This is doubtful given this post above. And when I asked yamato77 about this recently, here is his answer.
On April 29 2015 08:15 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 08:13 Trfel wrote:
On April 23 2015 08:12 yamato77 wrote:
I'll freely admit I don't have a better lynch at this second but it's not really important to, at this point
Yamato77, can you please explain this quote? From Day 1, near the lynch deadline.

don't need to find a better lynch than BH when you can just extend the day and work toward finding one

it's really simple
So maybe the pressure on Artanis was just a pressure all along, and never actually a scumread? I really don't see any other possibility, it's either this or yamato77 is mafia.
On April 29 2015 08:32 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 08:31 Trfel wrote:
Yamato77, towards the end of Day 1, did you think that Artanis was mafia?

I went over this

he looked better because of you.

your reads on the two of us were similar and we both took offense to them in similar ways, it was kinda townie

not super strong, but enough to make me doubt
And so it wasn't a pressure vote.

Yamato's read progression is as follows:
  • Artanis made a scummy statement, waiting for inactives instead of scumhunting
  • He made a really bad post where his push isn't what he is talking about
  • He said the same thing about Trfel as I did, maybe he's town
  • His comments on the Blazinghand wagon were really bad
  • Lynching Artanis is worse than lynching Blazinghand, who I really don't want to lynch
  • Artanis looks pretty bad for his stance on the Blazinghand wagon
And I don't like that at all.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:37 GMT
#1360
If that isn't alignment indicative, if I messed up somewhere, I'll switch back to WaveofShadow.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:39 GMT
#1364
On April 29 2015 08:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Trfel, the town alternative for Yamato I can see there is that he simply didn't really want to see BH lynched and that was his primary thought focus at the time.
Enough to make him specifically state that he had no better lynch?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:44 GMT
#1372
On April 29 2015 08:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 08:39 Trfel wrote:
On April 29 2015 08:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Trfel, the town alternative for Yamato I can see there is that he simply didn't really want to see BH lynched and that was his primary thought focus at the time.
Enough to make him specifically state that he had no better lynch?

I dunno. If he didn't follow it up with pushing me again before the lynch it does look pretty bad. I can imagine him not pushing me as alternative instantly, but he should realize it at some point before the lynch.
He never did.

His Day 1 was just like:

WaveofShadow is suspicious
Artanis is mafia
Maybe Artanis isn't mafia?
Artanis looks pretty suspicious
Don't lynch Blazinghand
Don't lynch Blazinghand!

No follow through on WaveofShadow or Artanis at all...

But I suppose his explanation does have some merit. That's not how I read his post at all, but I guess maybe I could see it anyway. Ugh.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:47 GMT
#1378
On April 29 2015 08:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Meh, I think I just want to stay on Wave as Yamato cares too much atm.
He hasn't been caring for a while. And he cares only when he's at risk of being lynched.

It's been 48 hours since yamato77 was seriously scumhunting (and his content was fairly good then, but still...).

Were WaveofShadow mafia, I would think that mafia would jump all over this. I conclude that if WaveofShadow is mafia, then his partner is either not voting for him or isn't here. Which isn't very useful at all.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:50 GMT
#1385
Palmar, if WaveofShadow flips town, do you agree to play the game properly and find scum?

Also,

##unvote
##vote WaveofShadow


Yamato77's explanation is plausible, I suppose, even though I really don't like it.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:51 GMT
#1388
On April 29 2015 08:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2015 08:47 Trfel wrote:
On April 29 2015 08:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Meh, I think I just want to stay on Wave as Yamato cares too much atm.
He hasn't been caring for a while. And he cares only when he's at risk of being lynched.

It's been 48 hours since yamato77 was seriously scumhunting (and his content was fairly good then, but still...).

Were WaveofShadow mafia, I would think that mafia would jump all over this. I conclude that if WaveofShadow is mafia, then his partner is either not voting for him or isn't here. Which isn't very useful at all.

There's only one other mafia player though. If it's Palmar, he can't really move off Wave given how he'd have been bussing him all game. If it's Breshke, he's already voting Yamato. The argument only really works for Damdred I think.
And Damdred isn't here, so it doesn't matter. Like I said, it didn't end up with any useful information.

Oh well, here's hoping that WaveofShadow is actually mafia.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:53 GMT
#1391
On April 29 2015 08:51 Breshke wrote:
Is it bad that im really hoping wave flips town here
Breshke confirmed.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 28 2015 23:59 GMT
#1394
Town

rsoultin
Artanis

Probably Town

Palmar
Damdred

Maybe Mafia

Breshke
yamato77

Hoping for the best. In all likelihood, see you tomorrow.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 30 2015 01:18 GMT
#1430
Hi.

I'm still pretty happy about the lynch yesterday It feels good to be right, even though I invalidated it by doubting myself later. At least I was right at one point.

I need to look again to see if this makes Artanis confirmed town, but I don't think that it does. It does look extremely good for him, despite all of the earlier reasons I had to townread him, but I suppose he could do this as mafia.

That really just leaves Breshke, yamato77, and Palmar. One good townread would even be enough to win the game. For now, I'm kind of leaning towards Palmar being the most town still.

I suppose with a two player scum team, I feel like scum could be extremely strange in their interactions. It makes me think that trying to use association reads is extremely dangerous.

Anyway, I probably won't be here for the deadline tomorrow (or the day after that, maybe even...). I'm moving, I should be able to be online enough, just at random times. Sorry.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 30 2015 01:20 GMT
#1431
On April 30 2015 10:15 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2015 10:11 rsoultin wrote:
On April 30 2015 10:09 Breshke wrote:
Mmmm i can understand the problem you would have with that post rso but i was just being realistic. Like look at it from my point of view I know im town and i was fairly sure wave was town (lol). Ive tried making everyone agree to narrowing the lynch pool to me yamato and wave. Then wave comes in and takes me out. I look at this and its like okay if he is mafia he is reducing the chance town gets lynched and i try think of possible mafia motives.

The only one that came to mind was that if he gets yamato lynched he can probs use the fact that he pocketed me to win the next phase.

That being said like why would he as scum go for thos play so while it was possible i thought it was unlikely. obviously i thought wrong.


the best reason for him to go for that play if he's scum is if you're scum with him -shrugs-

i mean i'm sorry if you're town, but you can't deny the logic


Yeah your right. So you think my play as scum is to limit the lynch to me my scumbuddy and one town?
I could easily see scum trying to take a town out of the lynch pool.

First, it looks good for them (less playing for survival). Second, they get to pocket someone. Third, it all depends on the thread position, and I don't think that Breshke no longer being an option affected WaveofShadow's chances of being lynched that much.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 30 2015 01:30 GMT
#1433
On April 30 2015 10:28 rsoultin wrote:
lol umm

considering the two voting for bresh ended up voting for wave i think your assessment is off truffle
I don't think that WaveofShadow insisting that Breshke wasn't lynched had anything to do with this.

It's not like WaveofShadow could have flipped and started scumreading Breshke there, anyway.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
April 30 2015 15:44 GMT
#1514
Sorry, I appear to be busier than I thought.....

If I can't play very much over the next day or so, I'll make it up after.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 01 2015 02:02 GMT
#1528
Hi.

I'm sorry, I don't have time to truly analyze (or the energy to properly read the last few pages).

If you need my vote for something, I'll try to check in before my plane flight tomorrow, otherwise I will hopefully be online before the deadline.

I'm really sorry, I'll do analysis and try to make up for it in the next cycle.

Off the top of my head, it feels to me that while Palmar could be doing this as scum, it could be surprisingly hard to replicate a playstyle created by not caring whatsoever. Trying to care and seem to not care is not so easy. I'd believe much more in Breshke being mafia, or yamato77 being able to fool me.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 01 2015 23:31 GMT
#1536
I'm here, but really tired. Is there anything I need to look at before the deadline today?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 05:23 GMT
#1540
On May 02 2015 12:12 Breshke wrote:
My internet is fucked and wont be fixed until tonight or tomorrow morning wont really be doing much here until then

Sorry for delays
Making activity excuses at this point in the game?

That's just poor form, and extremely disrespectful. I think that Breshke needs to get policy lynched for this.

Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 18:12 GMT
#1557
I don't think that we are forced to lynch today. Why do you think so?

I'll get to this sometime before the deadline, I hope.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 19:53 GMT
#1560
On May 03 2015 04:44 Palmar wrote:
Can we just lynch Yamato and get it over with. Please please please please please please please
I think that's what I want to do, but I have a good bit of reading I want to do first.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 21:33 GMT
#1571
I finished reading the thread.

##vote Breshke
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 21:42 GMT
#1573
On May 03 2015 06:37 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2015 06:33 Trfel wrote:
I finished reading the thread.

##vote Breshke


you don't count xP i only negotiate with stubborn palmars
What do you mean, negotiate?

I don't negotiate with town, just wait for night and then kill them.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 22:18 GMT
#1581
Breshke

The main point against Breshke is the lack of original thought and original pushes from him.

I also notice a lot of instances of Breshke justifying his own play where it isn't really necessary. Townies tend to be overly defensive, so I give him the benefit of the doubt (especially since he's been pushed for much of the game), but it just keeps looking worse and worse to me.
+ Show Spoiler +
Here's an example of his first read of the game.
On April 21 2015 09:31 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 09:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:24 yamato77 wrote:
I told wave he'd be the day 1 lynch

let's make it happen, people

##vote: waveofshadow

I'm ok with any lynch that isn't me since I need to overtake kita in the not lynched as town percentage tab. Therefore, any lynch that is not me furthers this condition and I support this lynch.
##Vote WaveofShadow


tentative town read for this post.
On April 21 2015 09:34 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 21 2015 09:32 rsoultin wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:31 Breshke wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 21 2015 09:24 yamato77 wrote:
I told wave he'd be the day 1 lynch

let's make it happen, people

##vote: waveofshadow

I'm ok with any lynch that isn't me since I need to overtake kita in the not lynched as town percentage tab. Therefore, any lynch that is not me furthers this condition and I support this lynch.
##Vote WaveofShadow


tentative town read for this post.


lol seriously? xP


Yeah haha all jokes aside in my limited experiance with art ive never seen him mention stats before so him referencing town stats and relating it to this game just seems like a weird way for a scum artanis to open.

This is obviously very weak hence the tentative part.
His read was obviously tentative the first time, he didn't really need to clarify it in the second post. For a read that he seems to feel is this weak, he shouldn't really post it except to generate discussion (in which this final sentence really doesn't need to be added at all).

This example alone doesn't say very much, but there are many, many similar examples.


Breshke just doesn't have the content production that I expect from him, either. He's mostly asking questions that don't seem to go anywhere. His questions are okay, but they don't provide enough insight to make up for analysis.
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 22 2015 10:50 Breshke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2015 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote:
Wtf this pressure on Artanis is fucking weird.
Like I'm super cynical that palmar and BH will ever contribute and I have an idea Artanis knows where I'm coming from, but these points of attack are weird and putting words in his mouth. Yamato what you said doesn't even make any sesne
Can't quote atm cause on phone but how is what you said even remotely what Artanis is doing?

And rsoul you get bored a lot for someone who is talking nonstop.


I really really like this post. Wave joins artanis in my "can't see lynching" list. If wave is mafia his frustration this game is from him being wagoned early so being on the back foot trying to survive from the get go. The stuff about yamato's push is not really alignment indicative for him even though I fully agree with his view point.

I'm not sure if i can explain this well but the last sentence on rsoul seems like it couldnt come from a scum wave as why would he randomly antagonize someone. Like he is clearly frustrated and if he is frustrated scum he would be trying to make friends not trying to piss people off.
What a weird read. Here's his thought process here.

I like this post from WaveofShadow, so I don't want to lynch him today. Here's a bunch of reasons that some scumreads on WaveofShadow aren't valid, as they are non alignment indicative. The wording "being on the back foot trying to survive from the get go" seems a bit strange, since town should never be playing to survive, but rather playing to catch scum.

And then he actually mentions the quoted post, explaining why he thinks that it makes WaveofShadow town. But it's a rather weak read in my opinion. And this post just doesn't make sense from a town perspective to me at all.

I also note that Breshke's explanations for his reads come upon request, generally not at the time he makes his reads. For someone who is so willing to justify himself, and for someone with good townreads, his townreads lack explanation even after questioned, but even moreso before.

Breshke's stance on Blazinghand is really weird as well. His vote on Blazinghand is initially a policy vote, and then Blazinghand posts. Breshke's posts focused in "this case is bad, Blazinghand could have created this as scum", and then ended up not pushing Blazinghand at all, asking for more time for the lynch, but still wanting to lynch Blazinghand.

I just don't understand how Breshke can want to lynch Blazinghand, but not enough to actually push for it, and want to delay the lynch for more, but not enough to unvote.


I read Breshke's Day 1 filter. And to be honest, I don't really think that I need to read the rest of it. There are many things that I can't see coming from Breshke, and I have a much easier time seeing yamato77's play coming from town.

Breshke and yamato77 are probably the best two lynches, but I think that lynching Breshke is by far the best choice.

I'll try to check in when I can, but I may not be back much until End of Day. Either way, I don't think I want to lynch yamato77 before Breshke anyway, so if me not switching to yamato77 results in another cycle, then so be it.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 23:17 GMT
#1583
On May 03 2015 08:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm back and thought about the game a lot in the car and concluded yamato is roughly 95% mafia. Points to follow, should be in time for lynch but you can move your votes already if you want.
Talk quickly? Not sure I have much more time.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 23:28 GMT
#1587
On May 03 2015 08:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Wave-Breshke as scum-scum also doesn't make sense because you have an experienced scum player in Wave and a pretty piss-poor scum player in Breshke and they hard townread each other. Sure, it's potentially a great tactic but how likely is it to actually occur? Not very imo. Also lots of genuine posts by Breshke in retarded things that I've pointed out. One that I haven't pointed out yet is how he instantly mentioned that he read Damdred as blue. I'd imagine scum would be a little more careful with stuff like that.
I don't have a chance to fact check what you're saying, but I guess that makes sense. Hm, I still think that the Breshke lynch is pretty solid.

Also, I don't think that you can infer much from the high-level interactions between the two players. It's possible that (as mafia) Breshke and WaveofShadow hard townread each other precisely because they didn't think we would expect it.

One thing to check is, WaveofShadow did have an extremely poorly explained townread on Breshke. Did he make it seem more that way when it was getting clear he was dying (thus incriminating Breshke), or was it a weak townread all along? IE does it look like he's trying to incriminate Breshke or desperately defend him?

Be back in a few minutes, then probably out until End of Day.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 23:28 GMT
#1588
On May 03 2015 08:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Coupled with the already weird Yamato-Wave interactions that Godmar pointed out before.
Yamato77 acted like that to everyone, though. Not specific to WaveofShadow.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 02 2015 23:33 GMT
#1590
Sorry, gotta go.

I guess I stay on Breskhe for now. If no lynching is necessary for this cycle, so be it.

Lynching Breshke and yamato77 will most likely win the game, regardless of the order anyway. And with that in mind, it's just simpler to lynch Breshke first and not try and wake up Palmar. But don't let that change your decision.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 03 2015 01:35 GMT
#1627
I'm really sorry, real life stepped in the way.

Later tonight, I'll take a very detailed look at what Artanis has been saying.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 03 2015 02:45 GMT
#1631
Rsoultin, please let it drop with Artanis....

I'm extremely confident that he is town. And he could very well be right.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 03 2015 03:00 GMT
#1635
On May 03 2015 11:57 rsoultin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2015 11:45 Trfel wrote:
Rsoultin, please let it drop with Artanis....

I'm extremely confident that he is town. And he could very well be right.


no. i'm not extremely confident he is town
You would rather lynch Artanis than yamato77?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 03 2015 03:16 GMT
#1644
Yes, it's not martyring if the lynch isn't going to happen that day (on his target, someone else's target, or himself). I mean, sure I guess it's technically martyring, but you weren't being very open to listening to him. And with me out and no one else around, the day was clearly ending in a no lynch.

I don't think that scum would avoid bussing because of where the scum power role lies. That isn't very important at all. If for town, roles are merely an aid to normal gameplay, I don't see why this would change from a mafia perspective.

Also, the situation was three players in a lynch pool, with the only real other lynch being Palmar. If the scum team is in fact WaveofShadow and yamato77, and they pushed the lynch that day to mislynch Breshke, there's a fair chance that they would have been lynched in succession as a result.

Have I thought about Artanis being mafia? Of course. I haven't shared all of my reasons for Artanis being town, there is no need to, he isn't in danger of being lynched. But the fluidity of his reads, the sense that he's provided, and the genuine feeling to his posts all look really good to me. He behaves in a manner that is supported by the expected emotions and his character. And I really don't think that Artanis would push WaveofShadow there (without checking the context, it just doesn't feel necessary at all).

Could he be mafia? I suppose, maybe. But even this final push on yamato77 makes a lot of sense. I could see scum trying to change the lynch here, but the thing is that Artanis is actually backing it with good reasons and it feels very genuine to me. So that just looks even better to me. Artanis may be good at mafia, but I simply don't see him being mafia here, especially with Breshke and yamato77 looking this bad.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 03 2015 21:12 GMT
#1673
Works for me.

##vote yamato77

At least for now. I'll read his filter when I get the chance.
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
May 04 2015 00:04 GMT
#1684
Just woke up.

That works
Normal
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