EPTOn February 21 2015 18:13 WaveofShadow wrote:
/in
/in
...
fuck it
/in
Newbie Student Mafia VI
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Artanis[Xp]
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... fuck it /in | ||
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On February 23 2015 23:46 geript wrote: Another newbie to coach aye. Yes please, I'll need it <3 | ||
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On February 23 2015 23:50 Half the Sky wrote: Artanis is in? Everyone run for your lives.... I'm running! Wait... | ||
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On February 24 2015 02:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Ugh I was considering /outing too because my schedule just got shit tons worse. I'll stick it out. For you Artanis cuz u my bbygrl ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/doHt3XS.png) | ||
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On February 24 2015 05:23 Half the Sky wrote: LOL...yeh I know how Artanis' foul mind works hehe. Oh trust me, you haven't seen ANYTHING yet. | ||
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On February 24 2015 06:08 Half the Sky wrote: How much more of the depths of it are we going to learn this game? :p Time will tell, and since everyone's posting youtube links I'll go and do that too. | ||
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I'm running for Mayor. This is my platform. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vQlYv1Z.gif) Any questions? | ||
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On February 24 2015 09:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hello everyone! I'm running for Mayor. This is my platform. Any questions? This is a very townie first post. He instantly draws attention to himself, then draws even more attention to himself by replying to himself. I think he's town. | ||
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On February 24 2015 09:48 Half the Sky wrote: So which cell are you Artanis? Also how dirty is your mind going to get this game? Do I want to know? I'm the white blood cell of course. I can't predict how dirty it will get. That depends entirely on the context of the game. On February 24 2015 09:48 Damdred wrote: I would so sheep you artanis, best mayor ever. I am a relative newb expect little from me, except I rekt scum. Also rng is out the window, we lynch scum today Your support has been noted, my dear padawan. | ||
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Eden Are you happy? | ||
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I don't believe it, I haven't seen you post a cute puppy yet. | ||
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![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/9yLjVs2.gif) Looks like I caught the first scum already! On February 24 2015 10:05 Eden1892 wrote: This guy is a buzzkill but he's probably town IMO. Shush, I wanted to hear Dammy's opinion first. | ||
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On February 24 2015 10:10 Eden1892 wrote: Oh. That's a lot more boring, I was hoping there were some kind of stats available somewhere because I love stats. But yeah, a random lynch hits town more likely than mafia. Most d1 lynches tend to. I'm not worried too much about that. + Show Spoiler + Anyway I'm not actually bad at this game, I just said that so that when the mafia scroll down and read the thread they'll see it and not nightkill me. They probably won't open this spoiler box because they're lazy/not reading so I can safely tell you this here. There's a bunch of fun statistics in the TL Database. + Show Spoiler + Mafia players are lynched 26.2% of the time on day one. Random lynching would result in a mafia lynch 25.2% of the time. Mafia players are lynched only 16.9% of the time in newbie games on day one, so excluding these games brings the overall day one lynch percentage up to 28.5%! 48% of players playing in a newbie game have returned to play in at least 1 other game. There have been 1200 distinct mafia players. VE has been lynched 24 times. | ||
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On February 24 2015 10:18 Half the Sky wrote: So Eden wants to get dirty, hey Artanis, what do think of that?  I'm in of course, but we need at least one lady to make it truly interesting~ | ||
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On February 24 2015 10:24 Half the Sky wrote: Artanis.......... If there are any other ladies in this game please join me in slapping around Artanis. You can't keep probing me for dirty thoughts then get angry when I deliver. Don't worry, you can enter through the back door and no one will know~ | ||
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On February 24 2015 10:26 Damdred wrote: He's interesting, his answers are okish. Him trying to jumpstart the game is good. He looks towny right now Ok, I'm actually very curious if you have a read on me yet given our history. I also want to know what your favourite pancake topping is. | ||
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That wasn't quite as enlightening as I thought. That's a 4/10 topping at best. | ||
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On February 24 2015 10:34 Half the Sky wrote: This is true. Anyhow, I can explore that dirty mind later. I look forward to it bb~ So far based on tone, I'd say so far Artanis seems laid back, same with Eden whose starting off with the usual banter. I'm pretty sure I came off as laid back in Imperial as well, which you shadowed. Do you feel that I've come off significantly more laid back this game than that game, or why do you still come off with a (albeit minor) townread on me from that? Also where'd Yamamoto head off to? I guess it's cool that he's supported my mayoral campaign but still. | ||
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What?!  ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/mkCXrcK.gif) | ||
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Yamato can you explain your scum tone read on me? | ||
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Come on step it up m8 | ||
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On February 24 2015 11:03 _Tormented_ wrote: @Artanis, I am still working out people's play styles. For instance, I could say you try very hard to come off as town and increase activity in order to draw suspicion away from yourself or that could just be the way you are normally. Still forming my opinions honestly. Town and mafia explanations are possible for almost all actions. The question is: Which is more likely? Paranoia is fine and all but in the end you're going to have to make commitments with incomplete information. You don't have to give me 100% reads, just tell me where your head is now. Also I'm going to bed now. | ||
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_Tormented_ He starts out with a lot of posts not giving out any reads, so I ask him if he has any reads yet. He gives a very paranoid answer, something pretty typical for newbie town. On February 24 2015 11:03 _Tormented_ wrote: @Artanis, I am still working out people's play styles. For instance, I could say you try very hard to come off as town and increase activity in order to draw suspicion away from yourself or that could just be the way you are normally. Still forming my opinions honestly. He calls me possibly town, but maybe tryhard mafia. No real reasoning other than just pure paranoia. Initial town lean, but I wanted some more info, so I asked him if he couldn't give any reads anyhow. On February 24 2015 11:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Town and mafia explanations are possible for almost all actions. The question is: Which is more likely? Paranoia is fine and all but in the end you're going to have to make commitments with incomplete information. You don't have to give me 100% reads, just tell me where your head is now. What I was expecting here were a bunch of weak town reads, maybe a mafia lean here or there but nothing strong. Instead, this is what I get: On February 24 2015 11:13 _Tormented_ wrote: lol fine, here ya go before I have to leave work. Take it for what you will. Player List 1) Probulous (filter) - town 2) Artanis[Xp] (filter) - town or overly aggressive mafia 3) Half the Sky (filter) - town 4) sicklucker (filter) - town 5) Tronak (filter) - no clue 6) Yamato77 (filter) - mafia 7) _Tormented_ (filter) - town 8) Node (filter) - no clue 9) The Shining (filter) - no clue 10) Eden1892 (filter) - either mafia or he is just being obtuse for no reason 11) WaveofShadow (filter) - no clue 12) Damdred (filter) - town 13) snarfs (filter) - no clue Now what's interesting about this is that the only one he's actively paranoid of that has posted is the two people he's already commented on. The rest, apparently he's pretty happy calling town or mafia. It's this change in mindset that doesn't make any sense, especially taken into consideration he wasn't willing to commit on a read on me and Eden. For him to be town, his thought process would have to be: "I don't know anyone's playstyle so I don't trust anyone, except these 5 people I townread without an explanation whilst still leaving a question mark on the two people I already talked about." A mafia thought process is much simpler. First, when questioned on his reads, he stalls for time by saying he doesn't know people's styles yet. Then, when pressured to still give reads he tries to keep his story straight by being paranoid on the two people he's already commented on, but forgets to keep that same paranoia for the rest of the field. I feel his paranoia is feigned and I want to lynch him. ##Vote _Tormented_ | ||
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On February 24 2015 22:21 Tronak wrote: + Show Spoiler + After re-reading all, Going to throw some open questions and my thinkings about them: 1) Snarfs, why would you suggest a RNG voting being town and a veteran player? Either was a simple way to make fellow townies show up them selves or in my newbie opinion should be read as a scummy post. 2) Artanis' opening: why would you introduce Mayors voting if game setup is given? Opening joke? Mayor is usually a starting point and you didnt read game setup? This follows another game? If not, I would read your post as mafia. If yes, is -Yamato quickly (1min later) votes for lyching Artanis . And Mayor joke appears again. Why? I can only read 2 mafias trying to create confusion, but I would be happy to hear what you both think about this. 3) Tormented throws his bomb list. Want to think, Tormented thought similar to me (above) and when pressured by Artanis to give his reads made a quick list pointing out both names (Artanis and Yamato). Would mafia do this? I dont think so, it was too early from my point of view, too much to lose. 4) Probulous accuses Damdred: I like Probolous' read and arguments given against Damdred so much that when I first read his post all my senses were focused on analysing Damdred's following posts. Up to this point, I think Probolous wins the mini batle and Damdred will need to give futher arguments to convince me about his alignment. 5) Yamato appears again to switch completly thread's focus and focus on Tormented again giving good arguments based on filtered history. Snarfs looks like aproving this switch very fast and Artanis pushes this line further in his last post. If Yamato/Snarf or Artanis were mafia, would they like to lynch a "tormented" townie and use this line to save a suspected Damdred? Sure! Conclusion: despite all guides about Mafia I have read suggest scum wouldn't be so active in the first hours of the game, from my point of view so far, all makes me think that at least 1 or 2 scums must be between the list of names mentioned in this post (with no exceptions). However I can't arrive to single point any of them and the innocents should also be very valuable for the town. I see the names not mentioned in this post as townies so far. So, I hope your answers for my wall of text clear my way. I think you're putting far too much thought in early game banter. The mayor stuff was trolling around, something similar happens at the start of just about every game. On February 25 2015 00:26 _Tormented_ wrote: Artanis, you asked for a read and I have a quick list on what I was currently feeling. I want about to sit there and give percentages on every person while I was late leaving from work. I know I am town, therefore I obviously have serious questionmarks about you and yamato. My point is that you committed to reads on everyone but me and Eden. What discerns your paranoia on me and Eden from the rest of your list? What makes us more "null" and why did you choose that wording rather than no clue which you used for others? On February 25 2015 01:48 Node wrote: Oops, second sentence in first paragraph should read: You've quoted none of the people you say are suspicious, you haven't engaged any of them directly, and you're straight-up refusing to commit to anything, even as you push multiple targets. You've said you don't think Damdred is scum, yet you seem to call everything he does suspicious. What's going on here? On February 25 2015 03:07 Damdred wrote: Art is probably town, i think the case and other thoughts show a clear progression of thought and actions. Seems to be helping the thread somewhat, town pile for today. What'd you actually think of the case? On February 25 2015 03:13 yamato77 wrote: I don't particularly like that artanis dropped his case and then peaced out. hm. No one posted for an hour, I like having conversations so I just left and hoped people would reply to the actual case when I got back. You people are a disappointment. On February 25 2015 03:18 yamato77 wrote: Not very convincing, and he doesn't stick around to legitimize it either. ehhhhhhhh Oh the ironing | ||
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I also want more comments on my case. | ||
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Damdred, you were here when I posted. What are your thoughts on the case? | ||
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On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote: Was driving oj these roads of mine. Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum. Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information. I displayed how his thought process is inconsistent. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective, newbie or not doesn't come into it. On February 25 2015 04:40 WaveofShadow wrote: THE WHY WERE YOU SO OCNFIDENT OF HIS SCUMMINESS TO BEGIN WITH Am I the only one seeing this? Somebody please let me know. Comment on my case and I may let you know. | ||
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On February 25 2015 04:49 Damdred wrote: I'm not saying your wrong I'm just saying that where he comes from its not that uncommon a thing to do and besides that pace is different and he's never been asked to hive reads on day one. So I'm a little hesitant That's all fine and dandy, but that doesn't explain his sudden change from paranoia to giving concrete reads on everyone except the people he claimed to be paranoid of despite being paranoid of everyone just a few moments ago. On February 25 2015 05:29 Snarfs wrote: Artanis, I think you're suspicious. That's why I'm asking other people their opinion on you. I think you said a lot of nothing yesterday before leaving and that your case on Tormented is not adding more than a single line could, but it conveniently fills lots of space nicely. What nothing did I say beyond the initial game trolling and how would you explain my point on Tormented in a single line? I felt it needed a narrative to drive the point home. Your meta towncase on Node also feels arbitrary. You picked out an aspect that Node used in a town game and didn't use in his mafia game and presumed that it's alignment indicative because they're different, but correlation does not imply causation. Without having been in the game or reading them entirely, it's pretty much impossible to tell what drove him to post differently in that regard. Meta is useful for general trends but I don't believe the way you used it is indicative of anything. I could prove just about anything I wanted using a mafia and towngame of any one player. On February 25 2015 06:07 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah chances are damdred isn't scum. If I were to continue playing as I normally would I'd probably tunnel him uselessly till days end but I'm sure there's a good reason people haven't picked up on what I found to be marginally significant. I'll be looking elsewhere when I get the chance. I still want you to wow me with something though, damdred. I want to know why I lost one of those 2014 awards to you. I don't like this defeatist attitude. I had a pretty good townread on you so far but this is weaksauce. I remember Wave in Shadow consistently going against the grain with his own thoughts and no matter what the other veterans said, he continued on his own thought pattern. I find this very atypical of townWave. On February 25 2015 06:31 Eden1892 wrote: I think HTS replaced out because she's mafia, now to go read the thread for people who probably aren't mafia due to that Can we please not do this? On February 25 2015 06:57 Tronak wrote: I cant take seriously your case on Tormented, lyching someone for being paranoid on you during first posts while you were trolling around is not a solid argument from my point of view. First I thought you could be putting some pressure on Tormented, now I am thinking, again, you are trying to bring attention to a dead point, again. That's not my argument at all. My argument is that he was paranoid of everyone at first, then when asked to give reads on people the only people he's paranoid of is the people he's mentioned before in his filter, and then there's that he separates between "town or mafia" and "no clue" for no apparent reason whatsoever. Eden Node is probably town, stop pestering him. Pester this guy instead On February 25 2015 07:33 yamato77 wrote: I think ksc might be mafia. I remember him being obstinate as town but not altogether unwilling to participate. He was much more forthcoming in the game I played with him. I still kinda think tormented is Are you seriously making unflipped associations right now? Like, really? | ||
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On February 25 2015 08:09 yamato77 wrote: I'm not making unflipped associations, I'm judging my read on a player against how other people are reading them and what I think of the player doing the reading. You're lessening a scumread on someone because someone you don't scumread but see as a "question mark" also scumreads him. I'd expect that from Vivax, but not you. | ||
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On February 25 2015 08:15 yamato77 wrote: sick vivax burn My read isn't weaker, it's simply that I'm unsure about committing to the lynch. The two are different. Okay, that's fair I suppose. On February 25 2015 08:16 _Tormented_ wrote: @Artanis - What about my list gave you any impression at all that I was dead certain about anyone? You demanded reads, so I gave you what I was currently leaning toward at the time. I did not have the time to write an essay about each person and honestly I don't really trust any of my reads yet until I get accustomed to the pace at which you all play on this site. Also, I am not "paranoid", I just honestly don't have any concrete reads yet and any reads I would give would be 75% guess work right now. If that makes me mafia, then your loss. The reason I'm scumreading you for it is because your first post mentioned you didn't have any strong reads at all. You never gave a reason for being hesitant on me other than being afraid of "aggressive scum", yet you never applied this reasoning to any of your townreads. Your paranoia was selective which doesn't correspond to a town thought process, but rather one where you're just making stuff up on the spot, and are thus mafia. I was aware that those reads aren't dead certain, the point is that you didn't express that paranoia for anyone but myself and Eden in your reads without ever giving a reason why you'd be more paranoid of us than any of your townreads. | ||
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On February 25 2015 08:35 Damdred wrote: He has thoughts pushes thoughts, has a good prwacense in the thread What thoughts has he pushed other than a pretty poor case on Tormented which he isn't pushing anymore because he's been shitting unsubstantiated 'question marks' at me? I see a Yamato on the sidelines that isn't really doing much other than throwing dirt on me where possible, with a few idle questions here and there. On February 25 2015 08:53 KelsierSC wrote: fuck it mind blown time is now boys. so I had SL as my scum read early because his posting was pretty fucking awful. just a feeling then he made this gem. Like this kind of "meta" read on damdred is like the most superficial garbage . Damdred can just talk to a thread it isn't beyond his intelligence. Maybe damdred is town but SL shouldn't be reading him town. So then I'm like well SL makes bad reads as both alignments, and as for his arrogance, well he is an obnoxious mo fo in general. I remember in a mafia game he said he had hf "twisted around his finger" hehe so i'm like ok maybe i'm not sure. let's step back , he's a fool. let's see what he does. Since I stepped back we get... Nothing. He doesn't give a shit about this. Just two shit tier town reads. I got him boys, join in on this ##Vote SickLucker Why does scum sicklucker not give as much of a shit as town sicklucker in this position? From what I recall him saying he actively tries to be unreadable by not giving as much of a shit in general as town when it isn't necessary. On February 25 2015 08:58 WaveofShadow wrote: Artanis, bad bad. Using meta to describe my play? Plz. And even worse still, using months old meta. The reason my town play isn't like Shadow or like you're used to is because my town play is shit and I'm trying to improve myself. Yamato will vouch. As for reads yamato, my schedule has been particularly brutal as of Monday. I'll try to look at stuff after iris tonight. Have you played any games that aren't months old though? I actually still need to check if you go along with town sentiment more as mafia to collaborate it too but I recalled very strongly that you do your own thing regardless of town sentiment. It is most certainly not bad. I'm gonna go do that now. | ||
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On February 25 2015 09:29 yamato77 wrote: So artanis, what exactly do you think of me? Leaning mafia, but I think the case on Tormented is better. Reading Cell right now I notice WoS bashing meta. I chuckled. | ||
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Why? I really don't see it. | ||
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On February 25 2015 21:59 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and for someone else for people to think about, probby has flown completely under the radar today after everyone town read him. Please don't do that, I don't have many town reads to begin with. | ||
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On February 25 2015 22:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Feels and some super early game stuff. Plus the cycle of caring /not caring today fits with his usual town play. That isn't really helpful for my read, sadly. | ||
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On February 25 2015 22:07 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah seriously, haven't you been ticketed multiple times because of that? And Artanis if that isn't helpful why aren't you voting Yamato with the rest of these guys? Because I'm not sure yet if he's a better lynch than Tormented. I'm still rereading what's been posted since I went to bed too. | ||
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I'm presuming you're pointing out the supposed irony given I'm scumreading Tormented and Yamato for backing away from that read. It's different though because Yamato made a shit case rather than a good one like Eden did, and then he backed away not because of reflection but because one of his 'question marks' also voted for him. | ||
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On February 25 2015 22:36 Eden1892 wrote: Ah, one other thing about Wave. Earlier he said this: Now he's voting Tronak for... what? Something that I'd pretty much to the letter call "'I'm not sure what else to do here' noob play." I'd almost rather lynch Wave over yamato. How about that? I like my arguments better for lynching him on further reflection. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: WaveofShadow I.. I was townreading him. Do I have to re-eval him too? ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/bjFxgFg.gif) | ||
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On February 25 2015 22:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also Tronak, with how many people suspect Tormented at least some of them have to be town, which means that there is a certain amount of logic on his push that apparently you're not seeing. Is that the only reason you're suspecting me? Where would I place between the suspects you have and why? | ||
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On February 25 2015 22:57 Tronak wrote: By his push you refer on his push on Scarfs? or his initial bomb list? I mean the push on Tormented, which both Yamato and Eden supported at first and Damdred and WoS saw the logic of. My suspect on you, is not based on the target you chosed for your case by it self. Is based on a) I dont feel your arguments are solid enough to read mafia on Tormented b) how your case came in to swtich thread trending. I don't know the actual vote count right now, but I'm pretty sure enough people have voted him to make it demonstrably wrong that it's a scumtell. Enough people found him suspicious that not all of them can be mafia. As for timing, I would've made the case that night if I were still awake but unfortunately 3am is past my bedtime. I made it as soon as I came back into the thread. You place in list of suspects is a spot occupied only by yourself, reserved for those of my suspects that no other player are pointing out (not true entirely since Scarfs and Yamato pushed you a bit but none of them voted you). And I'll leave you here by now, hoping that either my opinion changes or I'll find better arguments to keep my suspicion alive knowing my actual arguments are seen as "weak". I don't understand why you aren't pushing it though since as you've mentioned both Yamato and Snarfs have echoed your suspicions, so I ask my question again. Where do I rank between your other two suspects and can you elaborate on why? | ||
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On February 25 2015 23:34 Tronak wrote: I cant push something no one believes (Yamato and Scarfs pointed at you but never supported my arguments) based on apparently "weak" arguments. I think this would only disturb town thinking. You cant be between my other 2 suspects, you are on a side, completly parked for now and by now I mean D1 unless a good case (much better than mine) appears on you. Cant see why you need more elaboration. Please enlighten me if you really need it. While writing this, I am starting to think you are just testing me now, which brings me to think you are town or a very clever mafia player. Since I believe you are clever and skilled enough to overskill me easyly, by the moment I don't want to dedicate much more time on you, since I would rather focus on my strongest suspects and whatever new starts to boil in the thread. I think this post is very townie because the paranoia is very well articulated and omnipresent in everything, as well as having a very clear idea about what to him is acting in the best interest of town and being congruent in it. This in contrast to Tormented for which, I once again repeat, no one has found a viable explanation regarding his sudden shift in thoughts. | ||
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On February 26 2015 00:36 KelsierSC wrote: i'm reading through your filter and despite a lot of posting all I can see is Tormented is mafia. which is kind of stupid considering he is a new player and probably pretty hard to read. you've basically called a lot of people town. It will be interesting to see what you do when you are forced to lynch one of them. I agree new players tend to be hard to read, but I find his change of mindset and inconsistencies incompatible with a town mindset. I believe I've found mafia, I see no one able to counter my argument other than a weak "he's a new player" which doesn't actually invalidate the point, so I'm going to keep driving it home until he gets lynched. I'm willing to lynch Yamato as well though. I believe I've made that clear. | ||
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On February 26 2015 00:44 KelsierSC wrote: True I misread one of your posts. Can you explain this point to me. so atyptical town wave followed by So you had wave as atypical town then you town read him but then had to reevaluate him again. I'm interested why wave was suddenly in your town. You missed one post in between those two which was this: On February 25 2015 09:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Ugh, Cell isn't really comparable since the lynch pool is so limited so thread sentiment becomes much more likely to happen regardless and I tried getting through Guilty but then I realized determining what thread sentiment is pretty hard in hindsight so I guess I'm just gonna have to drop it. I decided the heuristic I judged Wave to be different from his town games to be inconclusive to his alignment, and that was my main reason for finding him weird. | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:00 KelsierSC wrote: i don't understand how that post explains it I thought he was town before, then that post made me wonder, then I decided it wasn't something indicative and I stopped wondering. | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I thought he was town before, then that post made me wonder, then I decided it wasn't something indicative and I stopped wondering. EBWOP: The post wave made, not the post I made. The post I quoted just shows where I stopped considering it a tell. | ||
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Yes. | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:03 KelsierSC wrote: but you said you had to reevaluate him again after Eden's post. And I did. Did you miss that post too? | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:27 Damdred wrote: Because his frustration looks really real, and hes being scum read on really weak stuff. Its his first game here and where he comes from day ones are a joke, you pressured him into giving read when he wasn't quite ready to give a read on everyone in the game obviously. Instead of going with the flow with the snarls case he also struck back fairly interestingly going against the grain, his intial post was meh, but his follow up explanation was pretty good to me, it make a lot of sense and you could see what he was saying. I don't want to lynch him On February 25 2015 04:18 Damdred wrote: Was driving oj these roads of mine. Your case isn't bad art. I am hesitant just because I could see a newb new to tl doing it just ad much as scum, does it make him town no it makes him more likely scum. Wave you are like talking to a brick wall. 6 hours into the game Hts barely has half a page of posts probably with very little actually to go on. Not enough to convince others yet, better to get more information. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/B6ScFo8.jpg) | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:28 KelsierSC wrote: You can look at my case on sl again if you like. Artanis your mentioned as town he wants to be as unreadable as possible. If that is the case then why does mention, twice, that he has made the best /towniest post in the thread. I dunno, he's SL, he says contradictory stuff in game all the time. I'm just hoping he does something dumb that confirms him as town again if he's town like fakeclaiming cop. I could lynch him but it'd basically be a pure policy lynch. | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:37 Damdred wrote: Yeah the case itself isn't bad, its made up of some weak points at this point in the thread though. Cases can grow or get weaker, and I think tis got weaker with torms continued play. Okay, that's fair even though I disagree with your assessment on the original case (I think it's damning) I don't think it's fruitful to keep arguing about that. I'm not willing to lynch Wave though. Why are you willing to lynch Wave and why aren't you willing to lynch Yamato? What has Yamato actually posted that you liked? | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:41 KelsierSC wrote: Artanis what the.fuck you just caught this fool. Lynch his.azz No, Damdred is probably town. His explanation makes sense, he just worded one post poorly. | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:45 KelsierSC wrote: Ugh fair enough. I thought you beez in the trap ## unvote ##vote Yamato77 I dont think sl is policy. My case on him isn't policy at all. Plus you yourself gave an example of his town mentality and I just displayed something that was opposed to that. Dont pull "oh its policy" bullshit when my case is the realest I don't think Damdred's capable of posting as much as he is now as mafia. I also don't think you did. Town SL can easily make a post that he thinks is accidentally very townie, then decide (as he has so far) not to give much more of a shit for the rest of the day to compensate. It'd actually fit in his thought process there. He's null to me and I'm not sure there's much that can sway me on him in either direction. Since no one wants to vote Tormented I'll park my vote on Yamato as well. He's made one case on Tormented which he backed off from when a question mark pushed the same suspect, he's asked a bunch of questions that didn't lead to anything, and he's been flinging unsubstantiated suspicions at me all game long whilst complaining about how the thread's evolving. ##Vote Yamato77 | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:47 Damdred wrote: When I think of wave and his town play I generally think of someone doing a ton of things with a decent thread precense finds things pushes them. I see part of this in wave, the finding something and pushing it for the first half of the day but past that hes been kind of....void he dropped what he found to be scummy and has just been here. I played with a mafia yamato before and he just doesn't seem to care and as town he cares and has some thoughts. I see more the later here, the initial case he posted wasn't as good as you but he did try to jump start the thread in a direction he thought was good which is towny I think. His paranoia while super high for whatever reason (which towards you art is kinda believable) is ok. I just don't want to lynch him I think right now I think. Wave's been quite present though. His questions and pressure feel very strong, and I get the feeling from his questions that he's actively hunting for scum. His questions have that accusatory hint to them that I've found common in his town games. I think I played with a mafia Yamato before, but it was a long, looong time ago and I have no idea how he'd play now. Disregarding meta, I think he's played a very scummy game so far. Reasons in the post I made earlier. I need to leave now, I'll be back about an hour before deadline I estimate. | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:53 KelsierSC wrote: Aeleranis. but if he doesn't want to get read as townie the why does he draw attention.to his "townie" post twice? Kitschner, trying to be unreadable doesn't mean you don't call your own posts townie as either alignment. It just means you don't go out of your way to become confirmed town. | ||
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On February 26 2015 01:58 Snarfs wrote: Artanis, what's your read on me? I'm not sure, I haven't looked at you attentively yet. Now I'm actually leaving. | ||
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On February 26 2015 07:43 _Tormented_ wrote: I am still not sure how Artanis can call Yamato's case against me weak and then continued to push me and then turn on yamato when he changed from me. Uh? Yamato's case was weak. The fact that he moved off of you for the reason he did was scummy. My scumread on him is independant but also compatible with my scumread on you given the ease of which he moved off of it. You're still my top scumspect, I just moved to Yamato because no one seemed willing to lynch you. | ||
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On February 26 2015 07:37 Snarfs wrote: I just really dislike that I need to go back and read to figure out who he thinks is scum. If he was tunneling I'm pretty sure I'd know off the top of my head. I think it was yamato? Okay, I've made up my mind. You're scum. There's no way you're reading the thread if you don't know who I've been going after all game long. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:00 KelsierSC wrote: it doesn't sound the same. he said he tries to be unreadable.. so why does SL make pains to point to a post that he says is "the best post/very towny" I'm not sure on the exact quote but it was something along the lines of him not trying when he feels it isn't necessary to make it easier for him to emulate as either alignment. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:01 Snarfs wrote: I was saying you aren't tunneling and that you switched off of tormented onto yamato. Feels like a pretty weak tunnel on Tormented if that's what it was. That is what I'm saying. You said you needed to go back and read to figure out who is scum. It doesn't matter if you call it tunneling or whatever. I can quote the amount of times I've asked for opinions on Tormented and how many times I referred back to the case. There's no way you didn't know I was suspecting him if you were reading the thread. | ||
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##Vote Snarfs | ||
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On February 24 2015 19:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Good morning. Yamato is right on Tormented I think but his case is shit. Here's a good case. _Tormented_ He starts out with a lot of posts not giving out any reads, so I ask him if he has any reads yet. He gives a very paranoid answer, something pretty typical for newbie town. He calls me possibly town, but maybe tryhard mafia. No real reasoning other than just pure paranoia. Initial town lean, but I wanted some more info, so I asked him if he couldn't give any reads anyhow. What I was expecting here were a bunch of weak town reads, maybe a mafia lean here or there but nothing strong. Instead, this is what I get: Now what's interesting about this is that the only one he's actively paranoid of that has posted is the two people he's already commented on. The rest, apparently he's pretty happy calling town or mafia. It's this change in mindset that doesn't make any sense, especially taken into consideration he wasn't willing to commit on a read on me and Eden. For him to be town, his thought process would have to be: "I don't know anyone's playstyle so I don't trust anyone, except these 5 people I townread without an explanation whilst still leaving a question mark on the two people I already talked about." A mafia thought process is much simpler. First, when questioned on his reads, he stalls for time by saying he doesn't know people's styles yet. Then, when pressured to still give reads he tries to keep his story straight by being paranoid on the two people he's already commented on, but forgets to keep that same paranoia for the rest of the field. I feel his paranoia is feigned and I want to lynch him. ##Vote _Tormented_ On February 25 2015 03:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: My point is that you committed to reads on everyone but me and Eden. What discerns your paranoia on me and Eden from the rest of your list? What makes us more "null" and why did you choose that wording rather than no clue which you used for others? On February 25 2015 03:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I get back and suddenly everyone goes afk again. Damdred, you were here when I posted. What are your thoughts on the case? On February 25 2015 04:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I displayed how his thought process is inconsistent. It doesn't make sense from a town perspective, newbie or not doesn't come into it. Comment on my case and I may let you know. On February 25 2015 07:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: That's all fine and dandy, but that doesn't explain his sudden change from paranoia to giving concrete reads on everyone except the people he claimed to be paranoid of despite being paranoid of everyone just a few moments ago. What nothing did I say beyond the initial game trolling and how would you explain my point on Tormented in a single line? I felt it needed a narrative to drive the point home. Your meta towncase on Node also feels arbitrary. You picked out an aspect that Node used in a town game and didn't use in his mafia game and presumed that it's alignment indicative because they're different, but correlation does not imply causation. Without having been in the game or reading them entirely, it's pretty much impossible to tell what drove him to post differently in that regard. Meta is useful for general trends but I don't believe the way you used it is indicative of anything. I could prove just about anything I wanted using a mafia and towngame of any one player. I don't like this defeatist attitude. I had a pretty good townread on you so far but this is weaksauce. I remember Wave in Shadow consistently going against the grain with his own thoughts and no matter what the other veterans said, he continued on his own thought pattern. I find this very atypical of townWave. Can we please not do this? That's not my argument at all. My argument is that he was paranoid of everyone at first, then when asked to give reads on people the only people he's paranoid of is the people he's mentioned before in his filter, and then there's that he separates between "town or mafia" and "no clue" for no apparent reason whatsoever. Eden Node is probably town, stop pestering him. Pester this guy instead Are you seriously making unflipped associations right now? Like, really? On February 25 2015 08:21 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Okay, that's fair I suppose. The reason I'm scumreading you for it is because your first post mentioned you didn't have any strong reads at all. You never gave a reason for being hesitant on me other than being afraid of "aggressive scum", yet you never applied this reasoning to any of your townreads. Your paranoia was selective which doesn't correspond to a town thought process, but rather one where you're just making stuff up on the spot, and are thus mafia. I was aware that those reads aren't dead certain, the point is that you didn't express that paranoia for anyone but myself and Eden in your reads without ever giving a reason why you'd be more paranoid of us than any of your townreads. On February 25 2015 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Leaning mafia, but I think the case on Tormented is better. Reading Cell right now I notice WoS bashing meta. I chuckled. On February 25 2015 22:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Because I'm not sure yet if he's a better lynch than Tormented. I'm still rereading what's been posted since I went to bed too. On February 25 2015 22:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Eden how are you so sure that Tormented is a distraction lynch over just, you know, actually being scum? I've established how his thought process makes no sense and no one has come up with a reasonable argument against it. On February 25 2015 22:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also I don't think your wave case is that strong. I pointed out that he was adhering more to thread sentiment already here and he replied that he's changing his meta. I actually feel like he's been probing people's thoughts for the most part in the rest of the game. I also don't think his suspicion of Tronak is contradictory; he could simply find it stronger than the case on Tormented, though I still don't understand why people keep ignoring that case. On February 26 2015 00:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think this post is very townie because the paranoia is very well articulated and omnipresent in everything, as well as having a very clear idea about what to him is acting in the best interest of town and being congruent in it. This in contrast to Tormented for which, I once again repeat, no one has found a viable explanation regarding his sudden shift in thoughts. On February 26 2015 00:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I agree new players tend to be hard to read, but I find his change of mindset and inconsistencies incompatible with a town mindset. I believe I've found mafia, I see no one able to counter my argument other than a weak "he's a new player" which doesn't actually invalidate the point, so I'm going to keep driving it home until he gets lynched. I'm willing to lynch Yamato as well though. I believe I've made that clear. On February 26 2015 01:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote: So why have you eliminated Tormented as a potential lynch when your only defense for him was that it could be because he's a newbie? That argument would only make sense to make him null, which should put him in a poe group. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:08 Snarfs wrote: I knew damn well you were suspecting him. I meant who you had your vote on. Who you currently thought was scum by who you actually had your vote on. I can also quote how many times I've said I didn't like Yamato if that helps. Generally people know these things of their main scumspects. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:13 Snarfs wrote: But why yamato? It just doesn't make sensssssse if you really thought Tormented was scum. Because he basically dropped his case as soon as I wanted to lynch Tormented on the sole basis that I was voting for him. Speaking of Yamato, I've just gone through his last two pages of filter and he seems to be prodding in a lot of places right now. Feeling better about him. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:14 KelsierSC wrote: also tormented slipped and no one seems to be bothering with it but w/e What'd he slip where? | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:18 Eden1892 wrote: uh kels pls explain because i'm five [2] | ||
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I need to revisit Wave myself. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:24 Snarfs wrote: Why not Tormented? Why not tell the new guy to focus on reading the guy you've been "tunneling" all day when we probably would have 3 votes on him right away and Shining would make a 4th!? Because I was the only one voting for him for a long time and I didn't detect any will from people to vote for him. I figure you and Wave are the most likely people to get lynched, so putting the attention there with little time remaining is a good idea. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:27 The Shining wrote: Snarfs is town. Wave I think I can vote for, actually in his filter now. Yes, Snarfs, those are the filters I read. I saw a case on Damdred and I saw a few people mention Prob being under the radar. So yeah. Why is Snarfs town? | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:41 Eden1892 wrote: lol so one mistake made by a newer player in a moment of forgetfulness is hard to explain away (see look I already did it) but an entire half-turn of filter of utterly nothing good is just "playing bad"? artanis pls You don't just "forget" to be paranoid. Either you're paranoid or you're not, it isn't a goddamn choice. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:44 Snarfs wrote: I was trying to make a point about artanis's so called "tunneling". I've already explained this. I knew he was suspecting Tormented, but the fact that he switched to yamato and then tried to push him was not a memorable event. It should be a memorable event if you're accusing someone of being mafia the entire day. One would expect a bit more knowledge over their top suspect that they've had the entire day. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:46 Eden1892 wrote: lol I actually misread what Snarfs was doing But it's even more clearly explained by him being town actually. He said he was making the point that you spent a lot of time on yamato this turn for being "tunnelled on Tormented." That's not a slip or even bad play, it's a fucking rhetorical point. Come on man. I thought you were talking about tormented again for a second. That can't be the case since apparently he didn't even know who I was voting. What you're suggesting means he either didn't believe I was tunneling tormented (in which case he isn't reading the thread), or he believed that I wasn't tunneling Tormented since I voted on and talked about Yamato (in which case, why did he say he couldn't remember who I was voting for?) | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:49 KelsierSC wrote: I thought the case by Artanis was that yamato withdrew from Tormented for a bad reason Eden why did you misrepresent his case? My reasons for suspecting Yamato were twofold; his constant softpushing of me without voting me (other than at the very beginning) and what you said. I currently believe Yamato is town though for the way he's been playing towards EOD. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:50 Eden1892 wrote: the bolded is correct, and he asked the question in jest he's explained this repeatedly and it makes perfect sense to me. really not sure i can help you much here Then why does he suspect me if he has no issue with my vote on Yamato? I don't understand his scumread on me anymore. | ||
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On February 26 2015 08:55 KelsierSC wrote: well you said artanis was on yamato because yamato tunneled on torment but I thought artanis was on yamato because of the way yamato withdrew from torment for a bad reason. This, and it isn't the first time you've pushed this thought and I've debunked it. | ||
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sicklucker choose a fucking side | ||
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On February 26 2015 09:01 KelsierSC wrote: if we have a vigi just shoot snarfs then we can clear up d2 better. Yes pls | ||
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W H Y I swear when he flips scum I'm going to berate both of you so hard | ||
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I think you're wrong on either Tormented or Snarfs, maybe both. I've got you kel yamato eden and tron as town. | ||
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On February 27 2015 03:13 Tronak wrote: You were actually VERY lazy (in terms of helping catching mafia) during the most critic hours of this game so far. I consistently pushed those that I thought were mafia until the end of the day. I don't believe I've been lazy at that time. | ||
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On February 27 2015 03:17 Damdred wrote: Do you think i'm right on SL and Node? which is more likely do you think? i'm leaning more towards node probably SL is and probably will be forever null to me, but I don't think Node is very compatible with Snarfs with the way they've interacted, so I'd lean towards SL though someone like Shining or Probulous is also possible. | ||
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On February 27 2015 03:23 Damdred wrote: Do you not think that snarfs post with all his reads is something mafia probably wouldn't do? Also why did you vote for snarfs with yamato before deciding yamato was town after you had pushed him most of the day? Also he was the primary push on him I believe in the thread at that point. I didn't see anything new in his reads list. Rehashing what you've said already in order to get another very viable lynch target lynched seems very easy. Because my problem with Yamato was that he hadn't done anything other than a weak case on Tormented which he backed up on when I started pressuring him and flinging suspicions at me. When I read his filter, I saw him doing a lot of pushing and prodding, plus the mutual wave-yamato townreads helped. | ||
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On February 27 2015 03:27 Eden1892 wrote: Artanis why is Snarfs mafia? Your best singular reason is all I need, more is welcome Being one of his main suspects whilst never interacting with me would be a big point, as well as not being able to follow his thought process. | ||
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On February 27 2015 03:28 Damdred wrote: It looks like in yoru filter you voted before you looked into yamato? You're right. At first I simply looked at the vote count numbers rather than who was actually on them. When I noticed Yamato I decided to look into him. | ||
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On February 27 2015 04:03 Eden1892 wrote: Something about Artanis's reply to my question didn't feel right but I can't follow up rn on mobile. Promise I will before I'm nightkilled I look forward to it honeybumpkins. | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:24 Damdred wrote: Yes why did it matter that wave and Yamato were town reading each other when you voted? especially when you called waves filter after his push on me crappy? They've got a lot of history, so if I believe Yamato is town and he's calling Wave town with nigh on certainty I do give that a decent amount of weight. | ||
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I guess you could get shot if they're medic dodging. | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:26 Eden1892 wrote: wow much committal very firmness many hard work wow [2] | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:28 Eden1892 wrote: what does that mean that's twice now that you've done it It means second. On February 27 2015 08:28 Damdred wrote: I know they have a ton of history but what does that matter if one of them is scum or not? When we were scum together we did somewhat the same thing? It's not very difficult. 1. Yamato has a good read on Wave. 2. I believe Yamato is town. 3. Yamato very strongly believes Wave is town. 4. I therefore feel it's more likely that Wave is town. Rocket science, it is not. | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:34 Damdred wrote: Was that the only reason that you thought wave was town because yamato said so basically? No, I simply thought Snarfs was more likely to be mafia. I felt like Wave's filter could be more easily explained by being bad, whereas I felt Snarfs lack of knowledge of my filter (I still don't understand his initial scumread) whilst having me as a suspect all game long made much less sense. I have theatersport each wednesday, I can't help not being there until 1h before deadline. When I was present I consistently pushed Snarfs after realizing Tormented was not a potential candidate for the day and I felt Yamato was townier. I pushed exactly why I thought he was scum. | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:40 Damdred wrote: and where do you stand on snarf now? I'm not sure. I wasn't a potential lynch target on D1 so it's odd to me in retrospect that he went after me of all people. Despite that I can't understand his gameplay this game at all, especially the lack of interaction he's had with me and his passive asking of other people's opinion on me without sharing his own until I pushed him to it, and even then no interaction to try and strengthen his read. | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:46 The Shining wrote: But you didn't always believe yamato was town. You were willing to lynch him. All I can see is a one liner about yamato's EoD play seems townie now and by that, Wave is town. Seems very loose with no flips to go off of to just assume one is townie for trying to save the other town. Reads change sometimes. Note that Wave called Yamato town too and I had a townread on Wave early on too. The fact that they townread each other strengthened one another. I didn't go in depth on why I changed my read on Yamato as there was little time, plus like I said I felt Snarfs was scummier. I wasn't certain on Wave being town by any means. | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:46 Tronak wrote: So in your opinion, who should be our targets for next day? Tormented's still my strongest read. On February 27 2015 08:49 Damdred wrote: whats changed your mind or at least made you doubt the snarf lynch? Thinking about it more critically and wondering why he went after me when I wasn't a viable lynch target. I've expanded on this in a previous post. On February 27 2015 08:49 The Shining wrote: Especially with you calling Wave's filter horrible. I'm a newbie. Help me figure out how someone yelling 'he is town!!" Is enough. If that's all it takes, I start shooting PMs pregame begging people to tell "he's town" when I'm up for mislynch Horrible =/= scum. That his filter was bad did not mean he was mafia, as evidenced by his flip. I saw a terrible filter but not necessarily a scummy one. | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:52 The Shining wrote: I know you didnt, hence my last post asking you to help me explain it now. Reads do change but if I can't readily see where and how it changed, it holds as much weight as "he was scum and unsure of how to spin his read so he goes as vague as possible." I don't want to jump to that conclusion without seeing what you have to say first I saw Yamato asking a lot of questions, poking and prodding and being active in a manner he hadn't been yet in the game. His reads evolved, changing his opinion on me despite not being prompted to and most importantly his interrogation of Eden had an agression to it that felt townie. | ||
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On February 27 2015 08:53 _Tormented_ wrote: Maybe because I am new...but this makes no sense to me. You say Wave's filter looks terrible, but stick with Snarf because of one single thing he said and said that Wave's actions could be explained... The difference between playing bad and playing scummy is that playing bad doesn't necessarily jive with mafia objective. I see mafia motivation in Snarfs' way of treating me whereas I didn't really see it as much in Wave's posting, as terrible as it may have been. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Snarfs still second. After that I'm not sure, there's still a few people I need to reread but I'll have plenty of time for that tomorrow. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On February 27 2015 09:08 Tronak wrote: GG Damdred I'll take your last 2 posts into account. Promised. You came and asked for questions before night ends. Since today you have been "very lazy" I was actually expecting some new analysis coming from you before night ended. I hope you day play changes, a lot! and besides tunneling Tormented and Snarfs you provide much more in depth analysis on what have happened in the almost last 33hours. If I'm right on both Tormented and Snarfs then all I need to do is to get town to actually listen to me. Have you considered that possibility? On February 27 2015 09:08 _Tormented_ wrote: Really now...you seemed pretty certain you would be around for D2....maybe because you can't shoot yourself? Definitely wasn't because I was joking around or anything | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Everyone votes for me and that doesn't change unless I become a universal townread. We treat me as green and start bouncing reads back and forth on the rest of all the players. We don't discuss whether we lynch me or not unless EVERYONE thinks I'm town. If I'm mafia, it's all wifom but no harm done. If I'm town, you'll have a lot of good reads from someone who is now confirmed town. Sound good? | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Seems genuinely paranoid, probably town. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On February 28 2015 06:29 Fecalfeast wrote: OK, I was also suspecting the shining but have since started to waffle on that. What's your opinion on him? I don't really have much of a read on him. I liked that he didn't like the train going on me so quickly but I don't like the angle he's going at (Yamato over Tormented/Snarfs/Node and now you). I feel pretty secure in Yamato being town. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
##Vote _Tormented_ | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Eden1892 - Has had a terrible day, but he's probably still town for the depth of his analysis on D1. Tronak - Shenannies from me onto Fecal feels town. I think he genuinely thinks I'm mafia, and he's actively questioning everything to the point of me thinking it's impossible he's thinking up all these things as mafia. The Shining - Similar reasons to Kelsier, but his lack of conviction in what he's trying might mean that he's simply trying to look good post flip. Probulous - Has been pretty absent during the day, but the fact that he went for Fecal over me and didn't give in on the easy Artanis train gives him significant credit. Yamato77 - I still think he's town, maybe? His EoD during D1 had a lot of conviction, but it's flowed away a bit again since then so meh. I also don't understand the evolution of his read on me at all today. Snarfs - Snarfs is actually completely null to me right now. He seemed eager to actually engage me, is asking a lot of questions and in general his play has been good, but plenty of question marks from the early game still remain. sicklucker - Has been pretty flipfloppy on me today. Don't know why he thinks I'm mafia. FecalFeast - Seems more interested in painting everything as scummy than finding out who's actually scummy. For some reason suspects Tormented and me at the same time, then suddenly swaps onto Kelsier who has no chance of flipping. Trying to abdicate responsibility for his votes. _Tormented_ - My filter should say enough about him. Sorry for the poor performance, GL town. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
gg | ||
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