Newbie Mini Mafia LX

On January 03 2015 02:41 Half the Sky wrote:


Hmmm...too good to be bad...

Firework by Katy Perry

Hehehehe....I look too innocent to kill anyone at night. Do I look like I'd NK anyone?

Gah...

Back on topic...must find more nooblets...I'm out of options at this point, which I know isn't helpful.
Maybe let LS play with only one game above the cutoff? *shrug*

On January 05 2015 09:26 rsoultin wrote:


Lol, and here I was wondering how to drum up conversation.
Thank you, LS. The obvious is blinding. Maybe you have a how to find scum to dazzle us with in there somewhere.



Pretty quick to start up the "us" against scum mentality there HTS. What your post should have read:
I AM TOWN I AM TOWN I AM TOWN
because that's what's screaming between the lines Why so anxious to imply that?

On January 05 2015 09:35 rsoultin wrote:
nope, not implying she's scum, just implying she's awfully anxious to make sure we don't think she's scum which is actually less an implication and more an outright statement given my question.

aren't you interested in the answer, ls?

On January 05 2015 10:15 The Shining wrote:
And so it begins!

The Shining is surely not one of those people that Rsoultin recruited.

So LS, is the reason you don't have a How To Find Scum Guide yet because you're Scum and the How To Scum Guide is more handy for you?

ExO_ Correcting you because you're wrong. She has posted twice.

On January 05 2015 10:14 rsoultin wrote:


Shining and ExO_ for sure...not certain if some of these other names are hiding people or not cause Damdred posted a thread advertising this place.

JarJar I've played with, too. He's also my brother.

And I invited my friend, Silverarte, but she's never played before and I have no idea how she would go about playing the game lol.

On January 05 2015 10:42 Trfel wrote:
I'm going to be really busy for the earlier parts of Day 1, sorry. I mentioned this before the game started.

I'll do my best, but I'll probably be back closer to the lynch deadline.

Good luck to all!

On January 05 2015 23:25 -Celestial- wrote:
And I just realised I've been a total dumbass and edited that post to add in the goddamn edit. *facepalm* I'm sorry, that was just instinct. I've never posted this forum before.

Crap...

On January 06 2015 00:18 Half the Sky wrote:
LS, unless I am misreading your sentence, moderator situations are not alignment indicative, but that aside, Celestial looks good for the most part for the in-depth analysis. I am a little surprised though you mentioned you had nothing alignment indicative on any of the veterans.

Celestial I have a question for you regarding your read on Rasputin. Since Shining also commented on bluehunting, was there something in the content that jumped at you or was it just his manner of scumhunting that indicated bluehunting?

Having played with Rasputin before, and taking on a proper D1 meta read, particularly from Carol, my impression was that he will ask questions if something sounds weird, if I recall right, he threw around many posts at people as he criticised circular reasoning and lack of explanations (which happened loads in that game), but didn't go as far to read scum let alone vote people for poor reasoning in of itself.

On January 06 2015 01:37 ExO_ wrote:


Rsoultin needs to post more, but I agree with this exchange in particular. Though I think her initial scum hunting was unlikely to produce anything, its better than not doing anything in the end. Shining looks like scummy with his post and right now looks like a good vig target to me (assuming we have a vig).

However her activity has severly dropped off after this exchange. Id really like to see more posts from her. leaning town for now

On January 06 2015 02:21 ExO_ wrote:


Im afraid this isn't true, as I've played video mafia with her just a few days ago.

On January 06 2015 02:23 -Celestial- wrote:


SC2 mafia is utterly nuts sometimes. It so fast and everyone is so quick to point fingers. One game of that I played just ripped itself apart in about three minutes with the entire mafia team surviving. Its a fun play from time to time though if you can get a game of it going (not as many people playing nowadays as I remember from when I played a couple years ago).

On January 06 2015 05:37 rsoultin wrote:
dont expect many posts from me during work hours, primarily. i dont have net access at work except on a lunch break and dont always choose to take them.

i am female. i just never correct ppl misreading me as a guy, especially since my gender is insignificant to these games xP

more importantly, i like the work you put in celeste, despite the read on me. exo seems okay so far this game...and i also find shining's drive by post interesting. im interested to see if he plans on following up. trfel is right about hts which is why i jumped; ill keep prodding if im not satisfied. not much to go off of yet...more thoughts or prods after work

On January 06 2015 12:04 jarjarbinks wrote:
My piggyback scumread! I know I am completely worthless day 1.

I've only played with Shining once before, but I would agree with Rsoultin on the Shining vote solely on his behavior in our last game when he was mafia in the early days of the game. She did the same thing, scumreading most people that scumread her each time. It is possible that she just always does that (I'm an easy target if you want to fire back Shining!), but I would say that the chances she's scum are higher than the solid 27% probability for the rest of ya'll.

Is it ok to pass judgement based on previous games?

What is blue hunting?

Sorry I called you a girl LS. You're last post had 0 scumreads. If you were to pick someone to lynch as of now who would it be?

On January 06 2015 12:06 rsoultin wrote:
Lol @ Tube. You were lynched because I was a dumbass. It really was that simple. I wasn't even scumreading you xP just convinced that Templar was a mislynch.

Okay, so while I get why people are scumreading LS, I don't think that him giving reads on demand that are mostly town/null is all that scummy. By itself maybe...

But I really like this post of his, that features him asking others for reads and making a point on Trfel's "free" townie points that doesn't feel scum-motivated to me:

+ Show Spoiler +

He also has one of the longer filters.

+ Show Spoiler +

Based on meta (which I know y'all don't like, but others can verify/dispute who have played with him) I don't see LS asking others' for their opinion on him out of the blue as scum. He's not that confident a player. He also has an almost ridiculous tendency to use meta arguments almost exclusively as town, which I see him doing again with his reads on Trfel, HTS and myself. Though at least he's confining it to players he's actually played with this game.

Scum or town, I <3 you LS. No offense intended lol.

On January 06 2015 12:12 LightningStrike wrote:

I <3 you too rsoultin also what is your thought my rather large post earlier?

On January 06 2015 12:17 rsoultin wrote:


The one with your explanation of your reads? Mostly just that you don't seem sure about anyone yet and are generally reading those who post a lot as town and those who post little as null.

I'd like to see more from you. So you don't find any behavior/posts scummy, just inactivity? Gumdrop would be a lurker lynch, I think you'd agree. Unless you're seeing something I'm not?

On January 06 2015 12:27 rsoultin wrote:
So, just to clarify, you find none of the active players null or null leaning scum?

On January 06 2015 12:29 Tubesock wrote:
Why not ask questions or discuss someone, Rsoultin posted a case on Shining. What do you think about that?

On January 06 2015 12:36 rsoultin wrote:
It's actually not meta, LS. It's that there are a lot of words with little content, and Shining's read on ExO seems to misrepresent ExO by claiming that ExO is just jumping from scumread to scumread with no logical line of thought. The only change I saw was switching off JarJar before he returned. Everything else was explained to my satisfaction, at least.

JarJar mentioned meta. He could link you.

On January 06 2015 12:50 jarjarbinks wrote:


Here's the link. Much more inactive game than this one I think the total is 17 pages.
I died halfway through the game. I think me rsoultin and shining were in it among others. Very embarrassing ending so it seems lol

https://www.starkingdoms.com/community/discussion/3840/finished-the-werewabbits-rise-again-village-lost-but-shining-and-kenshin-lost-the-mostest-/p16

On January 07 2015 01:18 Tubesock wrote:
-Celestial-

Why is Rsoultin more scummy than Gumdrops, Trfel, Silver, and me? I get why you town ExO so hard, and HTS but not the next 3 on your list?

On January 07 2015 01:29 Tubesock wrote:


Lightning, I was talking to -Celestial-.

On January 07 2015 01:23 Tubesock wrote:
WarWaffle is basically a policy lynch for me.

My leading contenders for votes would be Shining, or JarJar. I like where the questioning by rsoultin and HTS are going concerning Shining and I want more from her/him. JarJar while I think is funny (not to be confused with town) I have the same problems with as I do you Lightning. JarJar has like 2 good posts and the rest is fluff. You at least are trying and posting more so that looks more towny than Jarjar.

On January 07 2015 01:34 Tubesock wrote:
Lightning do you want to discuss my response to you found here:



And as far as:



I agree with what you're saying.

On January 07 2015 01:38 Tubesock wrote:


Coagulation was different. The way I read his play he was posting songs in ways to answer questions. When he found something important to talk about he stopped. It's like Liancourt in Carol with his annoying spoiler comments.

JarJar is posting less (although so is EVERYONE) and so far I only see maybe 2 posts with anything in them. Although, depending on how he responds to calling me out on his suspicion of me for my "inactive" vote that may change. Hopefully, he has some good arguments or something.

On January 07 2015 02:04 Tubesock wrote:


This is another area where we differ. I think the off topic stuff is scummy.



I'm curious how she is going to vote and what reasons she cites (assuming she doesn't ninja).

On January 07 2015 02:14 Tubesock wrote:


I said, I want to know what she is GOING to vote.

My point about -Celestial- is I think it's hypocritical to scum me for 1 post where I talk about policy or whatever and then he has 3 or 4 which have nothing to do with the game. I refuse to believe I wouldn't be scummed for that shit, but it's ok for him and the ones he was talking to. I already said I town read him so far, so clearly that means I'm not placing much weight on it in my read of him.

On January 06 2015 23:52 Silverarte wrote:
Alright! So no real chance to be able to vote after I head to work....so...here goes. (I'll throw questions at everyone after work)

@LS My personal personality alignment just isn't Chaotic enough!

ExO, I'm still curious on but I'm aware I'm in here too early to get the responses to my questions. I'm not voting you because you've had some great posts so far and I look forward to more.

Rereading everything so far (in what I missed and what's been said), Gumdrop did step up to give an explanation of his (or her!) thoughts at this point. I'm still suspicious because of how long it took, but honestly, you're as new as me so I totally get it. (Til next round. >D)
As far as my vote, rereading (and being convinced by several other player points), my vote is going to Waffle. I doublechecked the posts to validate what was being said, and it's true that there is a lot of lurking going on with only substance in the beginning given after prodding.

##Vote: TheWarWaffle

On January 07 2015 05:21 Trfel wrote:

Why are you claiming? Don't make it easier for the mafia to kill power roles. You should know better than that.

On January 07 2015 05:25 Tubesock wrote:


It's moot now. He claimed VT so we lynch him now at worst we lynch a vt. I think he's 4th on my list though. I really really want WarWaffle to come back.

On January 07 2015 07:06 Trfel wrote:
I guess I don't like lynching TheWarWaffle, LightningStrike, or The Shining. Yay. Not super convinced that any of them are scum.

So I suppose that I prefer a lynch on The Shining over the other two, since The Shining has been reasonably inactive, despite constantly saying he will play more. I like some of the points rsoultin brought up (primarily the constant references to posting more soon... I get it the first time, or the second time, but now it seems like stalling to try and avoid getting lynched... kind of mad that I didn't notice that for myself). The other reason to vote The Shining is to sheep Half the Sky and rsoultin. From my experience, both are very good players, and they think that The Shining is mafia. They have also kept up with the thread better than I have.

I realize that the timing of this vote switch seems really bad. I am still suspicious of LightningStrike, and am perfectly fine to explain why I voted for him in the first place. The primary explanation is that I wanted somewhere to place my vote, in case something happened and I didn't end up moving it by the deadline (I know that I am town, so I will take a ~25% chance of lynching scum over a 100% chance of a town!Trfel being modkilled, and a vote is easy to move). The reason I voted for LightningStrike is because he asked a lot of generic questions ("Hey you, what are your reads, with explanations please"). I don't remember him doing much questioning in the past, but I could be wrong. Still, asking primarily generic questions makes it seem even more like he is trying to appear useful while really doing nothing. In addition, he likes to use pretty fast meta reads, and didn't provide reads on any of the people he has played with before for quite some time. I feel that it was longer than I am used to.

Anyway, those are my thoughts at the moment. I'm switching votes to The Shining. Meanwhile, I will start looking into other lynch options (open to suggestions), and will be waiting for feedback and pushes.

On January 07 2015 10:42 rsoultin wrote:
LS...dude...

You've been lynched before as a claimed cop who was not believed...on Day 1 no less...

WTF were you thinking? I mean, I just now got started thinking about it while looking at the votes, and this does not make sense to me. You always talk about being afraid to lynch power roles. Always. You used that as your excuse in your scum game and I almost bought it.

Why are all your reads inactives? You don't think anyone actively playing is scum?

On January 07 2015 10:53 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, you called it the wrong name. Detective. People thought you were lying because of that (or so it seemed to me).

...Dude, don't make me go filter-diving your past games. I know you've mentioned it again in a game since the one I lynched you as scum (and said that about the odds), that you were concerned about lynching blue roles.

What's your read on shining?

On January 07 2015 11:11 rsoultin wrote:


...dude. Seriously?

You have a blue claim and the other train is someone you think is scummy?

I just...I can't tell if you're friggin protecting a scum mate or just not thinking at all. I will say this, though. If Shining flips scum and you're still alive, you better be oozing town from every pore cause I'll be gunning for you, LS. You are not as new as some of these others, and I have a much harder time believing you don't understand the basic mechanics of a blue claim than with someone like Celestial.

On January 07 2015 12:09 rsoultin wrote:


Dude :/ I'm sorry. That's terrible. Take care of yourself (and your Mom) okay? <3

On January 07 2015 23:03 rsoultin wrote:


Glad to hear your mother's doing alright LS.

If you couldn't vote for Shining who would you vote for and why?

On January 07 2015 23:19 Silverarte wrote:
I know JarJar's questions aren't directed at me (and I'm reading them as specifically at Rsoultin right now) but I felt I should answer them, particularly with the schedule in my world seeming to be a problem-ish. So I'm going to quickly answer at least number 1 before I run out the door.

6 central time is 5pm for me, the exact time I'm getting off (if I am lucky). I have a 20 minute to hour long commute (traffic, weather, so on) and immediately come home to trying to eat dinner, settling my household down and helping with sick people (who so lovingly gave me their cold xD). I have to be at work at 8:30 am, but again with that commute. ( Generally leave at 7:30 my time for work)
---

@Ls Glad you're back and she's ok! <3 LS, what makes you so suspicious of Shining? In your mind, who is the biggest candidate to lynch right now and why? I know Shining is on your radar, but what makes Shining more important than say...Gumdrop?

On January 08 2015 05:45 Half the Sky wrote:
Back in thread after yet another long day at work.

First off, the vote analysis. Starting with the isolated votes:

So Gumdrop and Celestial already voted outside the wagons, Celestial has already explained away (which I need to have a further look at), but it's Gumdrop's turn, I think Tube called him earlier saying in no world would ExO be done for.

It doesn't appear Gumdrop was in thread, but if you were, whom would you have voted for and what are your thoughts now?

On the main wagon, I highly doubt the entire scumteam (on page 11 I made assumptions there would be 3 scum) voted Waffle, because that is too obvious for D1. However, 2 of the votes on that wagon were sheep votes off someone with decent town cred, so it's likely at least 1 scum somewhere could have taken advantage.

WW made his claim 95 minutes prior to EoD. Of the votes coming in after that according to the vote thread, only Shining voted Waffle. To me, Shining's vote on Waffle in of itself is not alignment indicative. I had interpreted that as him trying to prevent a quickhammer on himself, considering his question on the tie vote. I had other issues with Shining and he still hasn't answered some of the concerns previously addressed with him.

Silverarte was out of thread because of her schedule. Voted WW earlier, and admits she was convinced by others. I looked closer at her read progression on WW and some of her other scumreads. She admits she sheeped the points made on WW (presumably by Rasputin) but looking at her filter I don't understand what in her mind made WW more scummy than say JJB, whom she was also scumreading and I still don't understand where she stood on Rasputin prior to voting. I'm assuming town at the time she voted because she obviously sheeped her, but I wonder if anything has since changed post-lynch. I'd really like her to clarify/update her reads.

LS, well, deary me. I was 50/50 on this guy but now he looks worse. I looked at the exchange between him and Rasputin and aside from the whole blue role controversy I'm just not buying this:



As town, I don't know how not observing the votes near EoD would fly. He said he's tunnelled too hard on Waffle, so I decided to work backwards on read progression. Tunnelled? Really?

Going through LS's filter, he goes on from a scum read post on Shining to a vote on WW on page 17, 17 minutes after Rasputin votes him. In his filter, there is zero progression to WW up to the time he votes him. After his vote I see one repetition in his filter of why he voted but I don't see any followup questions, or him making a bigger case. Then he says he's tunnelled on him. I don't even. It just seems to me too convenient of a vote.

In contrast, Tubesock was actually tunnelled on WW and I could at least follow where he was coming from, why he asked the questions he did. In his filter there are 10+ posts with questions on WW and explanations on WW's read post. None of that from LS.

Once again, negligible/poor read progression leading up to his vote on WW and not taking it off post-claim as Rasputin discussed makes LS look very poor.

LS, can you explain what differentiated WW from Shining at the time you voted him?

I will comment on some of the other votes as well, but I am going to grab some food.

On January 08 2015 07:42 The Shining wrote:


Also, this. My general understanding is that scum wants blue roles dead, as well as town. In what world does not wanting to lynch someone who just softclaimed blue for fear of them telling the truth and losing a blue role mean I'm scum?

On January 08 2015 07:56 -Celestial- wrote:
Just a heads-up: I'm not sure I'll be around too much tonight. I'm feeling unbelievably ill right now. Really awful stomach pains.

I'll try to address anything tomorrow if I can manage it.

On January 08 2015 09:52 The Shining wrote:
Day and Night one are now over. I said I wasn't done in my earlier post so here it is.

Starting with the votes:



Mafia have a habit of hiding their team in different spots, especially Day One. They do it on order to not make it obvious that they're banding together. One of those spots was the main wagon. Look at WW's vote list. I'm town reading Soultin, Silver and myself as town and Tube null. I'm going with LS as the Mafia on this wagon. I took a look at the last Student Mafia game and he's displaying the same lack of reads here that he did there. Also, he sheeps constantly onto whatever one person says. In Student Mafia, he did it with batsnacks and here, he's doing it with RSoultin. That, along with Soultin's pressure which I'm now deeming town and the points she puts up, makes Soultin Town in my eyes.

LS has offered very little, if anything, to us this game. He went from a big list post where basically everyone was a townread to sheeping scumreads onto myself. Then, he sheeps onto the main wagon in WarWaffle.

Also, Mafia like to throw away votes once the main lynch is secured. WW's wagon caught momentum fast. This leaves the LS wagon, which only has WW and ExO, a blue role and a guy who I'm still unsure about but might be willing to give him benefit of the doubt. Then there's ExO with the lone Gumdrop vote. And my wagon, which has a confirmed towny in Trfel, JarJar and HTS.

Celestial throwing away that vote on JarJar is really suspicious. That and the very early big post by Celestial that gave out a bunch of free town reads, mine included, a post that wasn't really warranted at the time. As has been mentioned before, Mafia likes to give out free town reads and hide in big posts. They also like to make excuses, which Celestial has done right as EoN and beginning of Day 2 started.

The last Mafia is, I think, Jar Jar. Up until now, he's given us nothing of substance minus excuses. The little content he has posted has been recent, and it's another big post that isn't saying much of anything. Then there is this:



Are you going to give us your thoughts on this yourself? Or just going to wait for the thread to validate your slow push? Mafia love leaving a little slow push that Town can run with. It's easier to blame the mislynch on town than take the blame for it themselves.

On January 08 2015 12:22 rsoultin wrote:
LS...my case on WW was never a case.

I honest to god saw him mentioned somewhere, went wtf I forgot he was even playing, realized he'd posted once early and was townread for it, then pressure voted him as a placeholder.

Trfel and HTS sheeped me. Could have been wrong there, too, but the case I did make was against Shining. (If I'm wrong 90% of the time, lol, you shouldn't sheep me no matter how good my cases sound xP). Celestial's issue with me was I made a case against Shining but kept my vote on WW -shrugs-. I fail to see how this escaped you.

On January 08 2015 12:29 rsoultin wrote:
Same reason I told Celestial.

There was only one vote on him when I was pushing my case, and no-one was biting. That left you and WW. So I left my vote on WW.

On January 08 2015 12:34 rsoultin wrote:
Lol >< yeah. I'm not going to wait until 10 minutes before the lynch...

But I think it's early with so many questions still floating to make a push, at least when I don't feel that strongly about any of my scumreads. I don't know how likely it is that you're scum unless Shining is. Lynching a blue claim from you is still mind-boggling to me, though. You explained it. I know. Just having a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

On January 08 2015 12:38 rsoultin wrote:
Even someone who claimed blue, though? Like just randomly lynching a blue, sure, I don't usually worry about that either though maybe I should. But a claimed one...

Maybe I'm the nutball, but with Day 1, that means Night 1, Night 2, etc. if the guy is really blue he's probably going to kick it. Let the scum sort him out and lynch him if he lives too long and continues to act scummy.

On January 08 2015 12:43 rsoultin wrote:
Lol and I would have let scum sort it out and lynched you later if they didn't Gumdrop was right. That's something town or scum could claim.

On January 09 2015 01:41 Half the Sky wrote:


That's not entirely accurate there. You, Gum, and Silver didn't have decent original scumreads as you said, but Waffle actually did (he scumread both Silverarte and Tube), Tubesock tunnelled him for it after WW already had votes for lurking from Ras and Silver. The veteran did not die because he underanalysed people.

A scum behaviour would be a consistent lack of original content, and a town behaviour of making their reads clear helps town form a general opinion on who is scum and who is not. Town tend to want to put their opinions out there and share the information and keep that constructive discussion going.

However there are enough new players we have to keep asking questions between new player behaviour and scum behaviour. Also there is more than one way to scumhunt, but barring an outright scumslip, most methods require some form of analysis.

No, LS did not have good read development D1, but I tried to look as closely as I could to his other games, and it's a reason I told ExO at the time he wasn't a good D1 lynch, though I had concerns on his behaviour. Now seeing his actions post-lynch gives more weight to the belief that he is scum. Even Shining pointed out he blatantly avoided one of my questions.

On January 09 2015 03:51 Tubesock wrote:
I didn't think Trfel was townreading The Shining or LightningStrike until about 3 times of rereading his filter. Did you guys think that he was not scumming them?

Is my thinking bad to believe that we could not have had 2 mafia on 3 wagons on Day 1? It's possible sure, but really? I get the argument that if BOTH LS and Shining are mafia that Trfel is a good NK. If none or one of them are mafia, I have a really hard time they wouldn't kill Rsoultin, Half The Sky, or ExO_.

Can more people talk to me about this? If you can't tell, I'm pretty dense and stubborn. I need more than one person to say this is a crackpot idea.

-Celestial- - You mentioned you had no idea how the wagon started and got momentum. I haven't seen you pursue that just yet. I probably missed it, can you let me know what you've learned?

Silverarte (Also LightningStrike) - Can you elaborate again on why you originally joined the WarWaffle lynch?

On January 09 2015 04:05 -Celestial- wrote:


Except you just explicitly quoted me expressing doubt and highlighting him by saying I wasn't sure what to make of him. He posted AFTER I posted leading to my later comment about how I'd liked his post which put me off his scent. But that does NOT wipe out the fact I was originally dubious of his posting.

You're misrepresenting me AGAIN here. Point out the lie. I mean really...





So you're just going to straight up ignore this?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/474146-newbie-mini-mafia-lx?page=21#412

LS straight up claimed VT with zero pressure on him. AFTER my last reply to you, which influenced me to doubt him again. So once again you are completely misrepresenting the situation.




I've just demonstrated I was dubious of LS on my initial impressions which was then improved by his later post (notice that it was an EDIT which brought that back), knocked back again by what you posted, redeemed by him demonstrating similar play in later games and then brought down somewhat again by his panicky claim. THIS is the factual story rather than the narrative you're making up and is what I was pointing out in my earlier reply.

I was never happy with WW's posting but it was not enough to lynch but nor was it enough to encourage people not to lynch, which I've already explained multiple times to the point I'm getting tired of pointing it out. Its like banging my head against a goddamn wall. If I've been "generally agreeable" then I wouldn't be repeatedly sticking my neck out by being ever suspicious of the motives of rsoultin considering virtually everyone else has been apparently townreading her to date. Honestly, this is absurd.

You are intentionally and very deliberately misrepresenting everything I've said so far and flat out making up a timeline of events to support your story. Frankly I question your motivations here. I had you down for town but now you're making a hell of an effort to twist the order of events to suit yourself.

On January 09 2015 04:57 -Celestial- wrote:





As far as I can tell this an outright LIE. When you "softclaimed" you had two votes on you, which was more than anyone else (but only by 1 vote). And you staying that way was contingent on you not providing me with any evidence to the contrary, which you did not long after which got my vote off you.

But when you claimed VT you did NOT have the majority.

PROOF!
Here is your VT claim:



Votes:


This was FIVE MINUTES before your outright VT claim with WW being a solid two votes ahead of you. The next vote was Gumdrop voting ExO more than twenty minutes after that. You were NOT ahead in votecount.

On January 09 2015 05:24 Tubesock wrote:


I fully support the -Celestial- questioning. The problem with your assessment is JarJar is likely Mafia although a pretty safe vote at the time.

On January 09 2015 05:25 -Celestial- wrote:



You were being pressured solely by ExO. I was asking ExO questions but I wasn't on your back so much anymore, I just wanted to know what he thought about your claims of similar play in other games. Tube was parked on Gumdrop and was busy trying to question WW over why he'd scumread Tube. Tube was wound up by the way you'd softclaimed but had also explicitly stated he'd prefer a Shining or jarjar lynch.

The ONLY source of pressure was ExO who had already voted for you. NOBODY else was on your back, it was pure panic.

Sorry but all of this from you now is just shady as hell. You're trying to claim that you were under great pressure in the thread and outright lied about having the most votes earlier. You've still got all of that suspicion hanging over you from D1, you were pre-emptively sheeping a Shining train just a few pages ago without even asking for more details and you keep repeating "I'm VT" in post after post after post. This smells incredibly bad to me.

##Vote: LightningStrike

On January 09 2015 05:28 ExO_ wrote:



I don't know what to say. I don't think saying he was posting fluff is expressing any significant amount of doubt. This means that you were not suspicious of him, and didn't really express it until after I did.

You backed off of LS after I left the thread for a while, and didn't get back on to him until 6 posts and 12 minutes after I showed that his current playstyle (everybody's town) matched what he did in a mafia game.

Regardless whether or not you used my reasoning or your own, this is the timeline that happened. Two times after I went after LS, you followed it up. You claim the 2nd time was for different reasoning. Okay, I could see that. But then I'm asking myself, why would you lie about the initial suspicion? I don't think your first post demonstrated suspicion of LS at all.

I'm significantly more convinced LS is scum than you. But I think you did lie, or at least heavily overrepresented your initial suspicion of LS.

On January 09 2015 05:28 Tubesock wrote:


This. This makes me fucking rage. I'm trying to fucking defend you. And you give me some bullshit meta which I've ALREADY FUCKING YELLED AT YOU FOR DOING?????

Who cares what you did in another game? You are acting so scummy in THIS GAME. That meta will just tell me you were MORE SCUMMY THAT GAME!

On January 09 2015 05:30 LightningStrike wrote:

Honestly I don't even care anymore everyone is too stubborn to listen to me. I rather pull bats than anything at this point.

On January 09 2015 05:34 Tubesock wrote:


To -Celestial-:

Lies and such aside. I think part of ExO's point is you haven't really stuck your neck out for any read. I'd love to see you cash in some of this town cred you have and really force-ably push a case. You have to have more than 1 scum read. LS is an easy lynch. Building a case on him is a waste of time and shows no risk.

You decided to stay off a main wagon and park on JarJar. Build your case. He's pretty scummy.

On January 09 2015 05:47 Tubesock wrote:
Lightning. READ THE BOLD:



Did you read my last long post about night kills? Did you somehow miss how I'm pushing that YOU and Shining ARE TOWN???

On January 09 2015 06:38 Tubesock wrote:


If that is seriously all you got out of it, you have nothing that I want.

On January 09 2015 06:42 Tubesock wrote:


Someone who actually thinks about my posts for one.

On January 09 2015 07:06 -Celestial- wrote:


Just a sec I'm writing up a complete filter dive on LS because tube wanted a full analysis from me on my best target.

On January 09 2015 07:08 Tubesock wrote:


I was actually hoping you'd go after a more difficult target. The LS case is pretty much closed. I'm the only one defending him, and I have nothing but a tinfoil hat conspiracy.

On January 09 2015 07:15 Tubesock wrote:


I hope to God you are the only one in this game that doesn't know what I'm referring to.

ANYONE outside of LS, if you don't know what I'm referring to...YOU FUCKING NEED TO ASK ME.

LS, you are clearly showing you are not reading, nor thinking about this game or anything that I am saying or doing. Filter dive me. Read my pages that start N1.

For fucks sakes man.

On January 09 2015 07:25 -Celestial- wrote:


Alright if we're so certain about the LS wagon for D2 I'll scrap this dive and have a look at someone else. I'll keep it in a word document in case we need it again though.

I'm going to need to work this out though before I can give you one. jarjar I didn't like primarily off the back of his D1 stuff, which I felt was largely useless and poorly thought out. His attitude post-flip though has been a LOT better and frankly I've not really been thinking ahead to the D3 lynch yet because we still have more than 24 hours of this to go, plus the full night to start thinking about D3 lynches.

I've got a reasonable feeling about Shining, but that might just be a hangover from D1. And I still don't like rsoultin's actions but I'm not sure if I can condemn because whatever I say about words vs actions her explanations seem to ring somewhat true. I've already mentioned my concerns about rsoultin earlier though when we were questioning each other after the D1 EoD flip.

On January 09 2015 07:26 ExO_ wrote:



Holy fuck are you kidding me? You cant defend yourself unless he gives you something to defend it with? People think you are scum in part because you won't make a read without piggy backing off someone else. Now you can't even defend yourself?? If you are town you need to at least try.

On January 09 2015 07:31 ExO_ wrote:



okay. then tell me your top 3 scum, with reasoning why. Lets start fresh and see where we end up.

On January 09 2015 08:12 Half the Sky wrote:
LS, for you.



Operative words in bold, extend all quotes.

On January 09 2015 23:13 rsoultin wrote:
...Did you read my post? No, it wasn't directed at you, but I don't see where your defeated attitude is coming from.

On January 08 2015 14:07 rsoultin wrote:
Gonna be honest, I really wouldn't be unhappy with a Celestial train. My concern is my problem is his logic (or lack thereof) in my eyes. Wasted votes are bad, plain and simple. Some of the things he's said, like being concerned about being consistent, rub me wrong, too. I keep going...eh, he's new...but at some point that excuse has to run out. Maybe? I don't know ><

On January 09 2015 05:17 LightningStrike wrote:
Rsoultin if you are here my baby girl we voting Celestial right now so now is your chance to get rid of one of your scum reads!

On January 09 2015 02:11 ExO_ wrote:


You are lying and I can prove it.



Before my post, this is the only mention you made to lightning strike. And even though you say he posts fluff, in that same post you go on to say his last post was good and he gets some credit. The next time you mention LS, is quoting and agreeing with me.





Oh really?



At this point in time I had been gone from the thread for a while. And thus the discussion moved away from LS for a while. As does your vote, and your vocal suspicions. Next comes:



You finally go back on to LS with:



Coincidentally guess what I posted just 6 posts and 12 minutes before the above quoted post::



HTS and I have a discussion about LS, and then you went back on him.

So at the very least, you are lying about suspecting LS before I posted. You pushed suspicion onto the WW train while carefully parking your vote on jarjar. You have been careful this game and generally agreeable. But if there's one thing I believe:

Liars should be lynched

People make mistakes. But I believe your post is intentionally misleading, not accidental.

##Vote: Celestial

On January 10 2015 00:26 Half the Sky wrote:
Back in thread.

LS, there is enough waffling that ExO has a point with the intentionally misleading part, especially after all the back and forth I've seen with his other reads. Again, don't like his case on Rasputin. It reads as if he's trying to hedge his bets on her and then he'd vote her if the crowd went that way. And those are common scum traits. It does not add up.

The voting thing has it up in the air between you and him. And voting is by far the most solid evidence. I already explained the problem with Celestial's vote and why he is scum from that. But I am sure there is one vote somewhere on that WW wagon. Can you go through one more time, why you voted Waffle D1? I'm still struggling with exactly why you did not believe his blue claim, and you also had a scumread on Shining D1 looking at your filter, unless I'm reading something wrong.

Explain to me:

1 Why you voted WW initially
2 Why you didn't believe his blue claim
3 Once he claimed, why a scumread on Shining was NOT enough for you to switch to Shining.

On January 10 2015 01:42 Tubesock wrote:


You can't really scum him for not finding any scum yet. None of us have.

On January 10 2015 01:49 Half the Sky wrote:


LS, there is a difference between scumhunting and finding scum. He is scumhunting, but very well could be on the wrong track. How many times have we said in games that just because someone is town, that they are not always correct?

On January 10 2015 01:52 Tubesock wrote:


By that logic I'm the scummiest scum who's ever scummed before.

On January 10 2015 01:53 Tubesock wrote:


Celestial is not an easy mlynch. In fact he's not getting lynched. He was pretty highly regarded town before his wagon began.

On January 10 2015 01:56 Tubesock wrote:


Uh, FecalFeast lead my mlynch in carol. At least he started it, rsoultin and HTS kept it alive if I remember.

I ACTUALLY MURDERED A BLUE ROLE. HOW CAN THAT BE LESS SCUMMY IN YOUR WORLD THAN A SIMPLE CASE THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY KILL ANYONE??

On January 10 2015 01:58 Half the Sky wrote:


So if Shining is your top scum read or was, how do you feel about him now? Why ExO and not him?

Your vote on ExO seems to be partial OMGUS as he was scumreading you. I am going into ExO's filter again and trying to imagine a world where someone has posted the way he has is scum.

On January 06 2015 08:26 ExO_ wrote:
I'm home now and I think I have my first really solid scum read. But starting off with HTS:

I thought she had posted significantly more than she had. But what she has posted I've largely approved of. Her posts, to me, seem reasonable but she's not shying away from giving scum reads. She has been helpful without being rude, while being concise. I think she's town, and definitely not a day 1 lynch candidate.


However take a look at LS in these 2 quotes:





The theme here, is "everybody's town". Not a single scum read here. He has a lot of posts, but when I read his filter I don't see scum hunting. I see him not ruffling feathers of anybody in particular. He's even got a nice little "my reads on day 1 are normally poor" excuse lined up all nice and pretty.

nope nope nope. I see scum

##Vote: LightningStrike

On January 07 2015 05:27 ExO_ wrote:


Nope I don't believe it.

I think LS is mafia and believe we can nab him right now.

On January 10 2015 02:39 Half the Sky wrote:


Wait, wait, wait. Hold the damn press.



Unless the mods screwed up, ExO NEVER voted WarWaffle.

What are you talking about?

On January 10 2015 04:38 rsoultin wrote:
...

Came home to change for the going-away. Fortunately.

@Celeste if Scum (as I suspect)
Great move. Hard-claiming doc where any sensible doc won't CC, and you can pick off an unsensible one Night 2.

@Celeste if Town
You deserve every ounce of condescension before and that will continue coming your way for hardclaiming doctor with a strong counterwagon and over 8 hours to go. Truly an idiotic move. I hope your save is worth it. Truly. You're fing useless to us now and even if scum doesn't kill you Night 2 town is likely to Day 3. Thanks for throwing the game.

Bah >< I have to treat his claim like it's the truth.

##vote: friggin LS

LS, dude, if you have a case on anyone make it now. I'll try to get back from the going-away soon enough to review it. -_-

On January 10 2015 04:53 rsoultin wrote:
If it's the one about him only lynching towns that:

1. assumes that you are town, and I'm already scumreading you
2. assumes that Celestial is telling the truth, which I'm not sold on, and
3. also applies to Tubesock and myself, so why single out ExO?

I'll admit that I mostly just skimmed your case, and I'll look closer later, but that point above is not and never will be good enough for me to lynch a current townread. I will take the time to review your posts when I get back, though. I was less certain of you than Celestial.

On January 10 2015 04:57 rsoultin wrote:


If he's still alive Day 3, LS, regardless of who is lynched today it'll take an act of God to keep me from emulating a bulldozer on his ass. -_- Frankly.

If you believe ExO is scum, build a good case, man.

On January 10 2015 08:53 jarjarbinks wrote:


I actually read that case! well the votes. so Exo #1?

On January 10 2015 08:56 jarjarbinks wrote:
O ok just saw that.
Ya if HTS is mafia WE ARE ALL SCREWED.

Sorry you got boned if your town LS. If I play with you again I will remember this game.

On January 13 2015 11:47 geript wrote:

Nothing in specific. Just read through the overall analysis. It's worthwhile seeing what you and others missed and why town failed to lynch correctly.

On January 13 2015 12:08 geript wrote:

Remember the adive is more so how to post effectively, how to play effectively and things to look for. Whether they're directly about your play, it can help give you an idea of how vets play. Hopefully that wall of text crit will seep into your continued play.

On January 13 2015 09:16 Damdred wrote:
Seriously though why wouldn't you guys listen to shining about how there cannot be a medic and a vet in a twelve person game. Especially when newb 12 person games generally only have 2 roles in it, crazy LS didn't talk about this. Medic+vet is way to town favored lol

On January 13 2015 11:22 GlowingBear wrote:
Hahaha I haven't read the thread yet but I can do the same kind of analysis with you, LS.

On January 13 2015 13:08 geript wrote:

No. Wubbybumpkins is my pet name for WaveofShadow. I find it funny because of how over the top it is. It's kinda become a long standing joke.

On January 13 2015 13:14 Damdred wrote:


I thought you got lynched the day he claimed?

On January 13 2015 13:39 geript wrote:

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to by meta, but in general your best defense is always scum hunting. You should try to address the "big stuff" but keep your focus on figuring out who mafia is. It's hard especially as pressure escalates, but you need to keep focus on getting your honest opinions out so that even if you do get lynched then your lynch gives direction.

On January 13 2015 19:01 LoneMeow wrote:


Besides what advice I already gave you, I'd recommend trying to make your posts easier to read.

You tend to use very long and complicated sentences, which when combined with some grammar mistakes can make them quite tedious to read for a non-native English speaker.

Take this for an example:



What I think this means is:

Half the Sky is town because she made some silly posts at start which were overanalyzed. It's not unusual for her to do this as town (see Student Mafia IV and Carol of the Bells Mafia). She has been asking some good questions from The Shining and following through on them. She also defended her posts in a manner I feel is town.

Much easier to read this way to me at least.


As general advice to everyone, quote what you reply to!
Makes it much easier to get context when reading your filter. It also avoids the problem where someone else manages to post between the question and reply and you have to start guessing which post the reply was for.