[I] TLLOLOTGDTM

On October 10 2014 01:15 Dandel Ion wrote:
well the only possible response to this is
git gud

On October 10 2014 02:01 Alaric wrote:
Depending on member, haven't seen my family for between ~3 months and 1+ year, so if day1 is from friday evening onward for my time zone, don't exepct too much activity. Although it's 48 hours so I guess I'll at least have time to participe some in-between family stuff and LoL semis.

On October 10 2014 04:26 Dandel Ion wrote:




I like masons to but no dice

On October 11 2014 06:35 Dandel Ion wrote:
yeah but at least people are going to shut up about this shit in OT now

worth

On October 11 2014 10:00 jcarlsoniv wrote:
sic 'em wave

I'm curious who's around tonight

On October 11 2014 10:17 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Haha I smell tryhards.

On October 11 2014 10:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I've really only played 13 games? wow



Oh, no no no, of course I wouldn't let you do all the work. But I'm sorry to disappoint, I tend to be a vote prude in the early days. It doesn't mean a whole lot right now, and unless I really want to pressure someone in particular (and think my vote will actually do that), I keep my vote in my pocket for a bit.

On October 11 2014 10:25 Alzadar wrote:
I would assume Wave is a high priority target for mafia if he's not scum, so no reason to lynch him Day 1, his alignment is basically revealed Day 2 if he's still alive.

On October 11 2014 10:23 ketchup wrote:
I honestly would have been less suspicious of Wave if all his post said was to vote ghandi because he is young as shit. Instead he had to color code everything! The color coding is way too strong for me. Wave please QQQQ

On October 11 2014 10:39 ketchup wrote:


It's too try hard sir! I didn't expect that from you, nor do I think it was completely innocent in it's intention. QQ

The Alzadar posts so far are actually the most suspicious because it doesn't really help townies at all while pretending to give out information. The games played especially means nothing despite the effort put in to make it seem that way.

On October 11 2014 10:41 ketchup wrote:
Then again, honestly, I don't think he's scum. I just think he is not pointing out anything useful.

On October 11 2014 10:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Soniv is scum, but as for the mafia game I'm not sure yet.

On October 11 2014 10:50 jcarlsoniv wrote:


And what scum are these? Jeff? It's going to take more than a sweeping declarative first post saying "vote jeff" to make me want to vote anyone right now.

On October 11 2014 10:54 ketchup wrote:


I disagree with that completely. If you think Alzadar was WIFOM with his post about veteran players, then you should agree with me in regards to what he has done. He hasn't brought up relevant information about the game played, and is instead looking at out of game situations that don't really have anything to do with the game itself. Can you at least agree that what he did doesn't help town?



In actuality, I don't think your post actually did anything. The fact that you want to early vote ghandieagle is also really really odd. Why should I have to have played previously with you to know your intentions? It makes no sense. I look at what I'm seeing right now, and make a decision from there. I really dislike your spoiler too as it is written as if it is outside of the game, but everything posted is IN game.

On October 11 2014 11:31 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Don't let the fact that he did something unexpected color your judgement - posting in a mafia game is completely different. Let what he says color your opinion.

@Cixah - trying to decide if wave is just being aggressive townie or taking advantage of the lesser experienced crowd to make a bold play. I'm feeling the former is probably correct - he can be a bloodhound when he wants to.

On October 11 2014 11:37 ketchup wrote:


I did respond to it...

On October 11 2014 11:01 WaveofShadow wrote:

The point is, if you don't think he's scum, then pointing out the useless stuff he has done serves no purpose whatsoever, similar to his own posting.

You said that you didn't 'expect that from me,' meaning that you must have some expectations as to how I play, yet I don't see how you could have any expectations since you don't know how I play.
You also said you think my intentions are suspicious. What do you think they are exactly?

On October 11 2014 11:44 Alzadar wrote:


I mean, part of the reason I mentioned games played is we can actually look at them. Apparently you guys are particularly suspicious of me when I tryhard and get information, but we can just look at past game threads and see how Wave posts when he's mafia vs town.

On October 11 2014 12:07 MoonBear wrote:
Hm if we don't vote to lynch someone Day 1 we end up in Day 2 where the Scum get a free kill in exchange for information that the cop people can get. However, how do the cop people communicate their findings to us? And how would we tell if the cop is a real cop or just someone pretending to be them?

On October 11 2014 22:37 Cixah wrote:


I think you did it just for the sake of starting the game which is fine. I just wanted your opinion before I generally just wrote off anything else said. Vanilla Town claim is awkward because it doesn't really further the game at all and yet here we are 3 pages later still talking about it.

I don't like the call for protection that early. It makes me think you scummy because why wouldn't scum want steal the protect for their selves?

Ghandi, Why are you a scum bag?

On October 11 2014 22:52 Requizen wrote:
I'm ready for it to get a bit morw aggro, but right now it's just Ghandhi and Wave fighting.

I vote we kill them both and be done with it.

On October 11 2014 11:25 AsmodeusXI wrote:
I'm also town as fuck. Too bad I can't concentrate on this yet while I'm watching all this Arrow.

Now just to decide who is the guiltiest sounding mafia vet...

On October 12 2014 00:22 AsmodeusXI wrote:
I also gotta read more closely to find the scummers. I'm mostly posting on the principle that a few crappy townie posts are better than scum lurking.

On October 12 2014 03:48 Requizen wrote:
Why is asking for roles scummy? Maybe people are more truthful than you'd like to believe.

Voting at this stage seems dumb. No one has said anything to out themselves in any real way, other than the really long posts which make me think they're too tryhard to be Town.

But I've never played TL mafia so what do I know.

On October 12 2014 03:57 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Wave, I do give a shit you scummy scummer scum. Nobody's helping me lynch your lying ass though.

On October 12 2014 03:50 mordek wrote:

First impressions on Soniv were actually scum. I honestly don't know what to think of you two with the early banter. Alzadar looked suspicious but I think I was "bandwagoning" with a bunch of posts saying what he was doing was suspicious. Asmo didn't seem to post out of character from his normal self but it's day 1 or w/e and its hard to see where words don't match actions. I was giving it some thought while working on the yard and I think I'm most convinced of Cixah.

He read you as 55% scum. To me this is weird as I think you'd either be entirely convinced your town and setting the right environment or entirely convinced you're making some huge epic mafia play and pulling the wool over all our eyes. Seems to tentative. I understand doubts but feels like that and the 51/49 split is also just trying not to stick your neck out. I'm not sure if this is a good read but I will confidently assert it and meet any rebuttals with an open mind.

Also I followed your advise and read all about WIFOM and the Princess Bride. How do you not make a WIFOM argument before a lynching? I thought Req's post about everything being confusing and angry was a sign he's not in the informed minority but that could also be a nice play on his part.

On October 12 2014 04:00 Lord Tolkien wrote:

Did you not see me both calling that I was town, then confirming it right after I read my PM? Clear town confirm here.

On October 12 2014 04:12 Requizen wrote:
I'm saying voting is pointless right now because no one has said anything that says to me "yeah this person is totally this role or that role". Everyone is just asking one another what they think about things based on basically nothing. Seems silly to me.

But, if I may intuit based on who our organizer is, the most senior player is either Townie or low level scum. Because that's what I would do and Dandel gets me. And since your first post was so adamant to make sure people thought you were town:

##Vote WaveOfShadow

On October 10 2014 00:33 Dandel Ion wrote:
I should probably note that that is absolutely not required since I'm going to completely RNG the roles and alignments

On October 12 2014 04:24 Lord Tolkien wrote:

pls, this is like a play I would make in live mafia.

d1 policy lynch inc


Note I was always town whenever I get policy-lynched in live.

On October 12 2014 04:25 Lord Tolkien wrote:

It was also wrong. Clearly had a 67% margin of error at least.

So reverse we shall away from the focus of "he said, she said" details and to engagement. Lord Tolkein, AsmodeusXI and Requizen have the absolute worst engagement out of everyone here. Out of them Lord Tolkein has played 3 games and the other have never played before.**** I honestly think we should be talking about them. Asmo has said he will post again later but Tolkein and Req's posts have just been weird.

On October 12 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
what is there to analyze?
The only "analysis" I've seen from anyone is they "have a feeling" based on nothing. That's not a conclusion that's a joke.

On October 12 2014 04:42 ketchup wrote:
The Cixah bandwagon is too real. Especially when coming from Alzadar and GhandiEagle. Wave is looking more and more townie just because people want to parrot previous arguments against him for badly thought out logic.

Moonbear's post was fairly terror. I hoped he would provide more. So moonbear, who are your top scum now that you know this game isn't rigged? There's no way only one person is scum to you right now right?

Requizen, I'll keep asking until you answer. Who are scum and who are town for you?

On October 12 2014 04:46 Alzadar wrote:
Bandwagon? I was the first to suspect Cixah, decided to actually vote cause Wave seems antsy to have us vote, and I trust him as our fearless Townie leader.

Strategic talk: if you hold the oldest vote on someone (as Ghandhi did), you shouldn't change it arbitrarily, you're giving up tiebreak power.

On October 12 2014 04:58 Cixah wrote:


It makes it easier for Scum how? I'm actually confused by that from a game play perspective, not from a "WHY DO YOU WANT ME DEAD" perspective.

On October 12 2014 05:29 Alaric wrote:
Oh God I wanted to write "weird that MB" and now it hurts my eye but I can't edit it out and correct it because Mafia!!§§
This game is torture for my inner grammar nazi.

My post is also a mess despite all the TL;DR so I'll try to explain it a bit better for Req (even though I think Wave would disapprove, since I guess he'd count it as giving scum information?).

You go on hunches, because people will fuck up and if they don't you want them to fuck up anyway. Once they do, you pin them to the wall and shove it under their nose and when they're unable to come up with a convincing explanation, you lynch them.

There are several postulates you can follow:
- scum are lurkers because they think the less they post, the less likely they are to slip up (that's where for example you can start voting against someone; if he's not afk that'll probably spring him into action as he doesn't want to die)
- when you lynch a scum, you examine who was defending it. I don't have much experience so I don't know how much it holds, but in the games I've played newbie scum would sometimes try to defend their teammates for fear that they'll be in a difficult situation if one of them gets lynched. So the next day people will look at them and say "Hey they were pretty adamant in their defense of X yesterday, wonder if they're scum too". It happens rarely though, because that implies somebody talked and that's so rare in my games. T_T
- on the contrary when scum talk it's not in their interest to make the game progress. They'll try to put town on the wrong tracks, push for lynching townies, or simply say a bunch of useless stuff so people lose time (and clarity of mind, there's so much to read wtf) with it, and in the meantime they can't be accused of lurking since they posted.
That's Wave's beef with Moonbear for example (even moreso because Moonbear used metaphors and stuff to colour his post I'd wager).

So if you want to help you can analyse people's posts, and try to formulate you deductions/hunches/"reads" in a concise way, or interrogate people you find suspicious.
Basically, be proactive and efficient in hunting down scum.

On October 12 2014 05:28 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Alright, I've finally gone with a comprehensive read and I'm ready to actually post some substance. Of course, after this I'll have to go for a while again (I think), but hopefully this puts suspicion off me and back towards the true scum where it belongs. By the way, I am also Vanilla Town (yo, Wave, you want some town solidarity and boldness? here it is).

So, it's D1 and we know fuck all, so my #1 evils atm are lurkers. I might end up voting on a lurker later or asking for a policy lynch if necessary. Lurkers are scum even if they're town because they're useless to our cause. Die lurkers die. (Yes I realize the hypocrisy, but hopefully I'll get more chances to participate from now on).

Here are my current scum reads: Alzadar and MoonBear. So far, these two have put forth the most useless content imo. No conclusions, lots of thoughts that don't lead anywhere concrete, a bunch of confusion that basically just serves to sow dissent among the ranks. In the end, MoonBear gets a pass from me for now because most of his post was based on a rules misunderstanding, but Alz has no excuse. In other words...

##Vote: Alzadar

... because until we have a reason to trust you at this point, you super scummy.

We also have our townies: Alaric and Req. Alaric's post was far too genuinely helpful for me to buy him as mafia. I don't think anyone's got that kind of skill just yet (except for perhaps Wave and soniv, but we'll get to them), so I'm taking that as genuine. Also, I don't see Req's attitude as a cover YET. However, if townies start falling around him, I'll totally revisit that because it'd be a DAMN good play for scum. But it comes back the fact that I don't think either player is good enough at Mafia yet to being lying based on the contents of their posts thus far.

Reads on everyone else:

• Wave - I, like ketchup, saw the boldness and the use of color text out of the gate as a little suspicious. It seemed to me that you could be using our noobishness against us by making it LOOK like your Town-hood was official. However, your other posts seem reasonable for the most part. I can't even blame you hunting me since I haven't posted much yet and, as I've said, lurkers be scum. I'm not entirely convinced you're town yet, but that's where I'm leaning. Probably Town.
  
• owb - Die lurker die. Come out of the woodwork and prove me wrong.
  
• Ghandi - I don't like your aggro behavior and one-liner style. It smells of scum. But I'm not ready to call this just yet. Still, your shit ain't up to standards.
  
• LT - Trolls are as bad as lurkers. Die. You're not an obvious threat yet, but I'd want to take you out first if there were no remaining threats like Alz.
  
• Coma - Die lurker die.
  
• Cixah - Not sure yet... Innocent Child claim is confusing.
  
• mordek - Similarly, not sure what to think. Don't like immediate hunch vs. Cixah, but you're clearly not committed to anything yet. I'll also keep an open mind.
  
• ketchup - I've generally agreed with you, starting from your first suspicions of Wave, so I'm thinking you're town in general. However, I don't buy a vote against Req right now, so you're in a gray area. Probably Town.
  
• soniv - I like Soniv as town because his posts have been sensible so far, but that's exactly what scumiv would do D1 too. Keeping an open mind because I like the perspectives, but could go either way.
  

Hopefully I didn't leave anything out or put anything suspicious in because I did do this in a semi-rush to get a post in before I moved on to other busy parts of the day. I'm happy to answer or clarify wherever anyone is confused.

On October 12 2014 05:33 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh wow, things happened.

Cixah, not sure why you claimed that early... I don't think you're in any real danger of being lynched.

Ugh, now I'm incredibly torn. MoonBear, while your post was glorious and fun to read, it was utterly useless. You can't take 80% of your post talking about wave and his behavior, not come to a conclusion, and then go off on some other non-conclusion bearing tangent. It's a huge "look at me I'm contributing" post, but there is 0 substance.

Req is scummy as fuck because of newbie claiming. T_T

The longer jeff goes without contributing, the scummier he looks. Swaglord is looking likely town for me.

Jesus fucking christ the claims lol. If everyone's VT, then nobody is!



god and the noob claims

can we just lynch everyone?

On October 12 2014 05:40 Cixah wrote:
It's my first game, sorry . I've watch enough voice mafia to have my head say 'You probably shouldn't do this.' but I didn't feel safe with how hard and fast that bandwagon came at me. It still doesn't sit right with me how fast those 3 votes came out of the gate against me.

Curious though, What made You (Soniv) and Wave think I wasn't getting lynch D1?

On October 12 2014 05:42 jcarlsoniv wrote:
y'know what? fuck it

##vote: MoonBear

You can, in fact, continue on the "he said, she said", that's how this game works. And y'know what you've said? Nothing. But you, more than any of the others who've done the same, come off as faux-contribution. Moreso than Alzadar. Asking about cops, trying to discern the setup, having 0 conclusions.

THE BEAR'S BLOOD WILL DRAIN RED

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 12 2014 05:49 jcarlsoniv wrote:


About Req? I'm seeing exactly what I expected, and I'm still trying to decide if he's being normal Req or if he's playing us. Either way I think there are probably better targets for D1? I understand the difficulty of D1 analysis, it's tough to figure out, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there for now. What I don't like is the continual complaining instead of attempting to emulate others and figure it out.

On October 12 2014 05:52 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Soniv, why MB instead of Alz? Alz is still the better read for me, especially since he's been mia since we turned against him.

On October 12 2014 06:08 ketchup wrote:


I saw it as a fun post, but I'll still definitely question you on it. I don't see why you would be irritated at that since this IS mafia, and that SHOULD have been the expected response. I found it as a fun post that I didn't like because it didn't help
town from my prespective. I also enjoyed putting pressure on you about it because at the time I didn't think it came from someone who wanted to help town. The fact that other people have parroted this though makes me think you are more likely town. It also helps that you are trying to find more information from various people even if you are trying hard to put yourself on team soniv

---

Similarly, I really wanted to put pressure on Requizen so I voted on him. I don't like his posts so far, and I really don't enjoy when people say things like "i was skimming posts" and then pretending that he is too "newb" to be scum. I'm fairly certain everyone has a general gist of what this game is about, and it bothers me when people pretend they were not "paying attention" so they are free to ask scummy things. I don't see how people already put in him in their town list already. He is still scummy since he still doesn't give substance to many of his posts. I will keep my vote on Requizen until he gives more information in his posts or someone points out exactly why he is a bad vote. He could defend himself, but other people are defending him, which is weird. For example, both Alaric and Asmo have said they don't trust him, but don't want to see him die day 1. Why not?

On October 12 2014 06:13 MoonBear wrote:

My answer of which was constructed was to answer a question put forward to be my one Mr. Ketchup. I answered and I also prefaced that they are 100% not based on anything because D1 arguments are really silly anyway.


Google says it means going fishing for bluefish which is confusing. Does this mean something specific in mafia?

On October 12 2014 06:16 ketchup wrote:


Can you give any other people if we exclude Wave from the list please? Who else seems scummy to you so far?

On October 12 2014 06:16 ketchup wrote:


Can you give any other people if we exclude Wave from the list please? Who else seems scummy to you so far?

On October 12 2014 07:17 jcarlsoniv wrote:
so are you voting Asmo, Alaric?

That post only has slightly more useful information than MoonBear's. Lots of "suspicious" isn't really worth mentioning, you should be suspicious of everyone. Even "very suspicious" is pretty noncommittal for someone who's top on your scum list.

On October 12 2014 07:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
TBH the reason I'm avoiding actually saying anything substantial is because I suck at the game and want to play my cards close to my chest until I legitimately learn what good ideas even are in this game.

But nobody else is able to throw around anything but baseless conjecture anyways so I don't think that I'm really that far behind in terms of actual tangible contribution.

I was trying intentionally to aggravate Wave to bait him into telling me more about the game without me actually asking, in order for me to get better. Wave gets mad in this game really easily though so tbh there was a lot of entertainment value there.

One thing I have noticed, is that Coma hasn't been speaking. Is there a precedent for lurkers being scum?

On October 12 2014 07:39 jcarlsoniv wrote:


Oh , the fact that Alaric actually came to conclusions is wonderful. I suppose it's more useful than I let on, but still, at it's core it's a big list post, which I tend to dislike.

On October 12 2014 07:47 Alaric wrote:
Eh trying to get people to talk like that without asking doesn't bother me, I mean if you just look at the concept itself I find it amusing, but I'm not the best example since I like shittalking people for fun. ^^'

The "you're bad" was an innocent jab for once, Wave, kind of "Well I'm not quite sure, so that probably means that you really aren't good otherwise you'd have already convinced me!".


As for my vote, Asmo, Alzadar and Moonbear are pretty much on the grill already. I've just thrown some stuff at Asmo so there's still to see him reac tot that. Hence why I'm more looking toward Coma/owb/Ghandi/Tolkien atm (well Ghandi answered somewhat just now).
... I guess you could argue that if you grilling Alzadar then moving onto Moonbear after other people start banwagonning against him makes me weary, saying Asmo is my biggest scum read but then devoting my attention to others is hypocritical. Uh... I prob have to reconsider some stuff.

Alternatively if the lurkers post I won't have to wait for them. x)

On October 12 2014 09:44 Lord Tolkien wrote:

That is true, but if I were to ask, "who would likely contribute as a town player to find and lynch scum", would OWB be one of them? I'd say no. I do hate policy lynches, but if there's no one else...

As for Coma, I'm waiting to see if he'll just get modkilled D1.

On October 12 2014 03:58 Lord Tolkien wrote:

Maybe. Perhaps. Eventually. I SUPPOSE I could.


I'll just say we should policy lynch lurkers. It always works in newbie games, and this is in effect a newbie game SO...

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 12 2014 04:24 Lord Tolkien wrote:

pls, this is like a play I would make in live mafia.

d1 policy lynch inc


Note I was always town whenever I get policy-lynched in live.

On October 12 2014 07:39 Lord Tolkien wrote:
just policy lynch lurkers

always necessary in newbie games

On October 12 2014 08:00 Lord Tolkien wrote:
neither would I but would you rather have them lurk lurk lurk until D3 or LYLO?

On October 13 2014 03:44 MoonBear wrote:

If I was scum trying to pretend to be town I'd just play along and bandwagon with someone else. Because why would I want to draw attention to myself. Idk if it's a crime to ask questions as a new player but at least I make more interesting posts than the stuff other people have posted instead of being boring and trying to argue over trivial details on Day 1 that don't really mean anything.



Because it's way too convenient to start picking on the people who make outlandish posts than the people actually trying to cause chaos and work against the town. The entire Day 1 has just been shifting gears around trying to accuse people over super trivial matters instead of anything important with various people trying to take control and manually drive what the town should be thinking instead of just letting it happen automatically.

On October 13 2014 04:01 Alaric wrote:
Was muling some thoughts while watching Soniv's stream, see above.

And I look silly again because MoonBear posted in the meantime. Your post doesn't really convince me though, especially the first part: "At least I tried to get useful information instead of randomly querying people" (that's the vibe I get from it), when the main thing you received flak for is that your big post spent a lot of space on Wave before saying "it doesn't matter" and shoving it aside.
Your second point comes back to him though, or at least that's how I see it. Are you targeting him when you speak of "people trying to drive the town while doing nothing important"? Do you think he should be more assertive (since his biggest accusation was on you after you targeted him) if he wants to sit at the wheel?

On October 13 2014 03:54 Alaric wrote:
Welp, bunch of stuff.
I'm happy to see Tolkien post for real... at first. I didn't like the post too much, on the plus side it helped me realise while someone (Soniv?) criticised me for responding to Wave with a "list".
He's already got a few people on his back so I won't add to the bandwagon, though (that's my stance: if we look for info, esp. D1, then I'd rather consider options over going tunnel-vision on a single person). I'll just point out that his behaviour kinda resembles Wave's at the start (with the whole "I'll come clean" post), but much more extreme. (And same as I told Wave I'll keep a tab on that.)

Deadline is close and I'd have preferred to do that earlier but
##Vote: AsmodeusXI

I'm still not decided on you.
We said we're laying newbie claims to rest so I'm not going to hold it either for you or against you.
Also as I mentioned your scum reads were Alzadar (started by Soniv) and Moonbear (pointed by Wave), and when you switched your vote it was from Wave's call to Soniv's call, after an exchange with Soniv. You also didn't give reason apart from apparently agreeing with Soniv's.

I have my doubts against Moonbear too but like Tolkien he's got a bunch of people on his butt and hasn't appeared (had time?) to defend himself yet, so I'll ignore his behaviour when looking at yours.
So far you haven't motivated your calls much. I can get that Soniv makes a good point, but when you're already following a lot I'd like to see your own thoughts more, to show that you're not just bandwagoning and you have new stuff to contribute too. Apart from what Soniv said, what makes you suspect MoonBear?
Also in a more general manner, do you think his posts about blue roles are what make him suspicious? Why?

I'm not so much interested in your reads as I am in seeing how you behave "by yourself" rather than when following vets.


Speaking of which,
@vets, how relevant is the topic of lurkers not posting much (aside from IRL stuff) because they're newbie blues and afraid to stick their heads out and draw mafia attention? I considered that aside from lurking scum and newbie "stage fright" but I assume we should refrain from said topic until later, because it risks giving scum info/reads to work on?

On October 13 2014 03:28 ketchup wrote:
owb is also more townie than comadose who has voted on a fairly bandwagon type of vote without explaining much. see:



So,

##Vote ComaDose

On October 13 2014 04:01 Alaric wrote:
Was muling some thoughts while watching Soniv's stream, see above.

And I look silly again because MoonBear posted in the meantime. Your post doesn't really convince me though, especially the first part: "At least I tried to get useful information instead of randomly querying people" (that's the vibe I get from it), when the main thing you received flak for is that your big post spent a lot of space on Wave before saying "it doesn't matter" and shoving it aside.
Your second point comes back to him though, or at least that's how I see it. Are you targeting him when you speak of "people trying to drive the town while doing nothing important"? Do you think he should be more assertive (since his biggest accusation was on you after you targeted him) if he wants to sit at the wheel?

On October 13 2014 04:27 Alzadar wrote:
Would still to hear a vote from you Wave.



So, we've got two 3-votes and a bunch of 1s. How do you lean between the 3s?

Heads-up: I'm going to a friend's for another Thanksgiving dinner at 5ish EDT, and very likely won't be back before 8. So it's T-1:30 on my vote. I'm sticking to Tolkien for now but I see Moon as pretty scummy so I'll change if that's how the town leans.

On October 13 2014 04:33 ketchup wrote:
And again, you complain about people not voting, but then you choose not to vote yourself Wave. That's so much noise you make for absolutely nothing

On October 13 2014 04:31 Requizen wrote:
Wave's lack of vote gives a bad vibe to me. Is he just scum, waiting to jump on the train of whatever townie is going to be lynched?

On October 13 2014 04:31 ketchup wrote:


You make a joke of my post about you trying to leading town, then make posts like these. Let me vote how I want because you aren't doing anything for me with your posts. In fact, they serve to confuse town still more than help. ComaDose should be looked at more than owb. owb at least has said he has been busy, and voted no lynch. Comadose pretends to be confused, and still hops on ghandieagle bandwagon(which you started).

On October 13 2014 04:51 ketchup wrote:


You don't think your hand holding of Requizen regarding tolkien was not leading him to a conclusion you drew out? Go read that exchange again. It's not like I think you are 100% scum, but your play sucks to help town. You attack more people than anything in your interaction with people. You are wishywashy with your reads which is excusable considering it is day 1, but then you attack people for the same things you are doing. A big one being the lack of voting, which you waited until the last day to do(aside from your initial ghandieagle sucky non-vote first post). You are DEFINITELY playing a game where you want to push votes. Lastly, I have repeated this multiple times. Your posts don't help town. They help to confuse town. In the last few pages, you jump from moonbear to tolkien, and back to ghandieagle. Over and over again. I honestly think comadose lynch would help town more than either moonbear,tolkien or ghandieagle at this point. If I could get enough votes, I'd even vote for you. It's just that too many people think you are good knowledge for being a "vet" which sucks.




This post is an exact example of your town teacher role you are trying to create.

On October 13 2014 05:00 Lord Tolkien wrote:

What did you think of Wave? Do tell.

On October 13 2014 05:35 Lord Tolkien wrote:

You're not the only one. Just check the votecount. Your reasoning feels weak.

So does wave's but not lynching him D1.

On October 13 2014 05:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Of course I'm here. I'm just observing right now. You're a big boy, you can live without me posting and validating your opinions. Speaking of which, I think you see me as town more than I see you as town. Don't think I don't notice your constant buddying up and using me as an excuse to make your reads valid to town.

I'm trying to look at the voting patterns. I don't think Swaglord is scum. He comes back with a big list post, but as far as list posts go, there was more than 0 content. Req makes an ok analysis and puts his vote on LT. Alright, cool, I'm glad Req started playing. A few hours later, a bandwagon has started and I'm not entirely sure why.

LT, I'm not really convinced on mordek either. He looks as bandwagony as Jeff (albeit with a bit more post content), just on different vote targets.

MoonBear's "defense" has left me very unsatisfied.

On October 13 2014 05:41 jcarlsoniv wrote:




Yeah, you sound super confident in that vote.

On October 13 2014 05:43 jcarlsoniv wrote:


What do you mean you don't want to force the issue?? YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR VOTE PLACED. You have no idea who you want to lynch, you're completely undecided and clearly having issues figuring it out (I know, this D1 is especially hard). You tell me to do more? No, you push the issue. I'm content with my vote on MoonBear.

And I wasn't talking about you last post being buddy buddy. It's a general trend in your posting this game.

On October 13 2014 04:11 Cixah wrote:
##Unvote

I have another post comming, forgot to to that last night before bed.

On October 13 2014 06:19 AsmodeusXI wrote:
I'm glad we could see eye to eye Alaric.

@MB, I want to point out that I'm still open to be swayed. No one's 100% guilty on D1. Come @ me with something good and I'll switch to that lurker scumbag Coma because he certainly hasn't done much good for himself. Vice versa for you Coma. Why aren't you scum?

On October 13 2014 06:38 Cixah wrote:


No patience. I had things to do today.

Most of the reasoning that the majority of the people have come to seems slightly influenced by wave or alaric in some way. Which is fine unless we don't actually get a good lynch after tonight.

My reads right now.

Soniv is majority town. His lurkyness right now is still mostly in the favor of town when it comes to who has pressed who. I'd like to see more of his opinion on Alaric and Wave's position, preferably before the lynch in 3 hrs.

Wave is town. He's being augmentative but only because he's digging for more information. Assuming he doesn't die tonight, we'll have a decent idea of what's to come for d2.

Moonbear and Tolkin seem the most scummy to me right now. Moonbear's posts have been analyzed and I really have nothing new to add to them other than I think the lynch on him is probably not tonight. I would feel more comfortable if we had a vigi shot or something similar for him, but that's really not my call. Tolkin's posts have been sporatically themed with a very heavy dose of "Cause Dissension at every Turn". His rabid unwillingness to answer any sort of questions in reguards to reads, why he's voting Bandwagon, and never moving any town facing conversation forward.

Comadose hasn't said anything, but if he makes it to day 2 I think he'll make more of an appearance. For now I'm willing to lean on neutral because he legit has 1 page worth of filter. Post more. I need to know how you feel in this game, Specifically about Wave, Soniv, Tolkin, and Asmo.

Ketchep leans town for me. I'm not convinced he's The Towniest Town in Town, but he's moving in that direction.

Asmo is town.

Azladar is Null for me. I'm still unsure how to read his, mordek, jeff's REALLY early bandwagon but it doesn't sit well at all with me. For now those 3 or neutral.

Req is leans town but is playing like a wounded sheep. Req how do you feel about Azladar, Mordek and Jeff?

I'm still holding my vote for now, but most likely it will be used on Moonbear. I'm not convinced outside of last second heroics that you're not scum. Either that or you're just playing with a giant veil over your words because you want people to read way to deep into your posts and find nothing.

On October 13 2014 06:48 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Ugh. This is such scum-centric votespread, idek.

Definitely dont like the MB wagon right now. And I'm clearly town. So.

Hm.

On October 13 2014 06:52 AsmodeusXI wrote:


I want to hear about this opinion sometime if you can ever feel like people won't lynch you for it alone.

On October 13 2014 06:50 mordek wrote:
I feel like odds are at least one of the "vets" is on town side. There's a chance that's not the case but not a good one. My thoughts on Wave and Soniv to a certain lesser extent: They start off the game with what feels like a pro-town atmosphere. Since then they've backed off considerably I'd say. But they're back now which I guess was expected with the deadline coming up very soon. Lord Tolkien has still hasn't convinced me he's acting in the town's best interests.

So far I've voted Cixah and then LT. I thought I had somewhat of a meta-read on Cixah and probably had that creating some confirmation bias in my mind reading through his posts. So now that I'm convinced Cixah is town I thought I should look at who else voted Cixah. Obv Alz was also critiquing his posts but also Ghandi seemed to hop on the Cixah wagon. I thought I had a valid reason voting for him but Ghandi, like usual it seems, offered little insight.

I'm sticking with LT for now, that's what my gut says but I also thing Ghandi is at the least not-Town.

On October 13 2014 06:58 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Im fine with jeff as well. But.

Hold on, going to ask BH how he RNGd scum D1.

On October 13 2014 07:04 mordek wrote:

I read he was in your top 2, and you had some kind of read on him and voted. LT then voted Asmo with no explanation. I made some comments after being accused of sheeping with your vote and LT has not convinced me anyone else is scummier.

On October 13 2014 05:41 WaveofShadow wrote:

No, I expect you to do more. If you think that latest post was a buddying attempt you're sorely mistaken.
The bolded is exactly why I don't think he's scum either, but pre-flip association IS a bit dangerous so I can't discount it completely. Essentially my reasoning on LT is the fact that the wagons at the time were him and MB...LT then unvotes MB...as scum there is absolutely ZERO reason to do that if MB is town and you can pull off a mislynch. MB could still be scum but I have other reasons to believe he may not be and I'm not sure I want to force the issue.

On October 13 2014 07:05 ketchup wrote:
Why does a ghandi bandwagon make more sense than comadose? Especially when comadose is already on the Ghandi bandwagon?

On October 13 2014 07:13 Alaric wrote:

See my post right after yours for a more detailed explanation.

Although in retrospect I told myself that overly clinging to one's first impression and being fiercely confrontational was also something Tolkien did, and in the very same post I wrote that it made me rethink a bit if that wasn't a town move from me. Why wouldn't Moonbear benefit from the same treatment for how he behaved?
It could be pointed out that both you and Tolkien have some experience under your belts, which makes me more likely to "accept" that there's a reason behind you doing that I'm too green to grasp yet.

On the other hand, just because it's Moonbear's first game doesn't mean he's not maybe better at this kind of things than you. An issue for me here is that I have no idea what "serious" Moonbear is like, since he's always that jolly cheerful fellow with us in the off-topic thread (heck, even when he warns me it's more like "PSA from your friendly neighbour"!), which muddies my expectations.
But in the end I said I'd rather vote for someone dubious than an afk*, so I'm looking at him right now.
Moonbear, what that means is that you're close to a default lynch than a 100% scum read for me, so if you wanna stay alive it's up to you buddy! Be convincing, preferable before I go to bed.



* my "policy" in terms of lynching lurkers is that I assume noone will lie and pretend they have RL stuff to justify them lurking, and Mafia's still a game in the end, so I'd rather have everyone play.
It means I'm wary of lynching people who've been away for non-game reasons, while someone who participated, even if he's lynched day 1 will have at least had a go at it (syntax?). Obviously the more time passes the less it holds, and I won't be as "lenient" in that regard come day 2.
Cf. the "carebear" post.

On October 13 2014 07:16 ketchup wrote:
By the way, if moonbear is a no show, this means he is mod killed anyways. I think stacking mod kill + lynch on moonbear is actually a really good town play. Rather than letting people dictate RNG kill or anything else.

On October 13 2014 07:19 ketchup wrote:
So moonbear getting mod killed is somehow scum play Wave? You want to RNG vote ghandi because that's somehow town play?

On October 13 2014 07:21 ketchup wrote:
lolol I didn't expect jcarlsoniv, tolkien and wave to try to argue against this with the same bad logic. WOOOOOWWWWWWWW.

On October 13 2014 07:18 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Ugh, I'm confused.

I was fairly certain I was on the right track, especially when the Swaglord bandwagon got some steam. But now the dust is settling and MB has a bunch of votes. I'm not as certain as I was before.

On October 13 2014 07:26 mordek wrote:

Ok, so the flipside being MB and LT are both scum but that's too obvious and he would never do that?

On October 13 2014 07:28 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I vehemently disagree.

Hence why I'd rather take a full RNG vote involving everyone.

On October 13 2014 07:35 Requizen wrote:

I dunno, I think that was just him trying to spark discussion in his own, crazy, british way. Tryhard (though silly) posts != scum

On October 13 2014 07:36 Alaric wrote:

Oh. That.
Well I'm not 100% sure either and I tend to be a pretty passive person in general (as in "I gather as much information as I can until I'm as sure as I think I'll ever be, and even then I have doubts"), so I'm technically still opened to "swaying" myself, as I mentioned with the "for lack of a better option".

I assume it's normal for day 1, though, since even the vets are unsure? And it should be better once day 2 rolls around and we have firmer reads.
Also who is BH and what's that RNG talk?

On October 13 2014 07:37 Lord Tolkien wrote:

If I were scum I would be bussing him so so hard to win town cred as he's clearly useless as a mafia partner and/or not troll D1.

Lol.

On October 13 2014 07:39 ketchup wrote:


You aren't a mod, stop trying to dictate how this game goes. Until a mod comes out and tells me this isn't allowed, I will definitely keep posting about it. The mod kill discussion was 100% legit because of this random ass move to jump on the ghandieagle bandwagon started by you, and followed by Tolkien.




This moonbear jump on ghandieagle bandwagon is hilarious.

##Vote: MoonBear

On October 13 2014 07:40 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Alaric:BH is Blazinghand, and im referring to the ongoing fantasy football mafia game. They RNGd into scum d1.

On October 13 2014 07:43 Requizen wrote:

This is what makes me vote Wave. The manipulation stops here. Even if he's town, I don't want him to dictate the flow of everything. Don't be caught in a situation where he can turn the town against you with his words.

On October 13 2014 07:47 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I kind of want to lynch ketchup for continuing to instigate the whole "o my god don't listen to them they're vets, MANIPULATION" line of thought.

On October 13 2014 07:48 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Ok I've caught up.

I want to address first the "gives no fucks" part that Wave really wants to label me with. it's bullshit, I didn't expect how seriously Wave was planning on taking the game, so I started with some innocent poking at him, but just because I'm not hounding people as rabidly as he is does not mean that I dont give any fucks about the game. That's ridiculous and represents a lot of the hyperbole Wave has been throwing around.

Secondly, I stopped talking for awhile because it seemed like everything I said was hurting myself (which it probably was). I didn't want to cause more damage, and i legit didn't feel like I had a productive line of reasoning to add for awhile. I haven't been lurking, I just wasn't here at all since I was otherwise occupied. I have literally no agenda in this game from the posts I've made, so every "this sounds scummy" read is just empty ammunition. I think it shows a lot of how little conjecture you can actually make considering most people here haven't played before, and don't have a specific mindset going into the game.

I'm a simple vanilla town minding to my own crops.

Also, since beyond that I haven't said much of real value, I've come to agree with Ketchup that Wave is more or less throwing his weight around in a scummy fashion. I was being serious when I pushed for Wave earlier, but that didn't gain any traction so I wanted to see how people would react if I started voting for Cixah and getting people to move, which like I said earlier clearly backfired.

I later switched to Moonbear not to create reactions but because all of his answers either dodged the question through long text or actually raised more questions for me. Considering he has retreated after realizing the community opinion was swinging against him, I felt pretty confident in at least putting him on trial. I made sure to cast my vote early-ish in order to make sure that I had a vote by the time it ended, in case I wasn't able to show up for the end. That said, if MB doesnt show up then we should absolutely lynch him. You're crazy if you legit think that MB is going to be banned day 1, this is TLOT Mafia. Therefore, risking a dumb-ass town doublekill seems like a risk that, it being day 1, is fucking stupid to take.

I want to vote for Wave but no others do, so I'm sticking with whatever gut I have and going moonbear.

I also think a lot of the criticism towards Asmo is unfounded, I don't think hes totally guilty yet. You're trying to read too deeply into what he says, much like what certain people are trying to do with me.

On October 13 2014 07:50 Requizen wrote:

Doesn't matter about ketchup. You're not playing the Town game, you're playing the "Wave knows better than everyone and you should listen to him" game.

I'd rather "waste" my vote than jump on someone I don't believe in. And your push to get a single vote off of you when you're in no danger of getting lynched is really desperate imo.

On October 13 2014 08:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
nah man, I'm comfortable leaving my vote where it is.

There was a wagon on LT, given momentum by you. There was a subsequent re-wagon on Jeff. Wanna know who gave that one momentum? You. *gasp*

If the Bear bleeds like I think he will, I'm comin' for ya buddy

On October 13 2014 08:40 ketchup wrote:
It may be odd, but I won't move my vote. I don't feel comfortable letting moonbear go with his low amount of content/posting. He hasn't shown to be helpful. So either he's unhelpful town who is playing badly, or he is scum who is playing badly. Either way, it's one less obstacle that stands in the way of town solving the game.

On October 13 2014 08:44 jcarlsoniv wrote:
(PS - I think MB will flip red)

On October 13 2014 08:47 ketchup wrote:


I agree that I don't like soniv's interaction this last day. I also didn't like his interaction earlier when the mod kill topic came up. Then again, you were very against discussing it too, so it's not like everyone is going to agree with each other over everything.

On October 13 2014 08:49 ketchup wrote:
Still a vote on moonbear is better than removing votes from him this late into the day. I think removing votes from anyone this late helps scum more than it helps town.

On October 13 2014 08:50 ketchup wrote:
Do you really think town can swing a vote faster than scum can? Do you really want to see moonbear do this again for day 2?

On October 13 2014 08:54 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I've seen last minute switches go very poorly more times than not. I've never been a fan of them.

On October 13 2014 08:55 ketchup wrote:
If he's blue, it sucks but he played badly, and nothing he did helped us. Considering he hasn't come out as blue yet and there are less than 30 minutes left, I think he is not blue.

On October 13 2014 09:01 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh look, we're no worse off for the wear

On October 13 2014 09:04 jcarlsoniv wrote:
so did you?



wave pls

On October 13 2014 09:30 ketchup wrote:


Let's be fair, in a game of information, scum have more. This isn't a point in your favor. Just because you think he isn't scum doesn't make you any less scum. Even I could have removed my vote, but I didn't because last minute vote changes are not a good thing as town imo. Moonbear was unhelpful, and took a lot of the day 1 attention. If he kept playing like that, there's no way he would help day 2 and onwards. It's not something I want to see as town. I have my reservations about soniv, but this post doesn't mean much to me in regards to your alignment.

On October 13 2014 09:36 ketchup wrote:
Also I want to mention, that you bringing up he may be blue/ townie with a role, is really frustrating to try to bring confusion/chaos into the game. This is especially so because you chose to do so in the voting stage when there were less than 30 minutes left. If you thought he may be blue, why didn't you mention it the first time he was being voted on? Why didn't you mention it a lot earlier? Like, does it actually save moonbear? Moonbear could have outlived the vote, but if this was actually a thing, do you think scum would let him past the night stage?

On October 13 2014 23:29 Requizen wrote:
Maybe it's just early for a lot of people, but this thread should not be this dead during the night. Town needs to be discussing the action for the next day and posting discussion about yesterday's failed lynching.

I have a large post coming soon, don't make me double.

On October 13 2014 23:29 Requizen wrote:
Maybe it's just early for a lot of people, but this thread should not be this dead during the night. Town needs to be discussing the action for the next day and posting discussion about yesterday's failed lynching.

I have a large post coming soon, don't make me double.

On October 14 2014 00:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I think how defensive Wave is getting is further proof that he's scum.

Just personally.

If I were scum on the chopping block, I think I'd try to make people feel stupid for even thinking I were scum.

On October 13 2014 23:29 Requizen wrote:
Maybe it's just early for a lot of people, but this thread should not be this dead during the night. Town needs to be discussing the action for the next day and posting discussion about yesterday's failed lynching.

I have a large post coming soon, don't make me double.

On October 14 2014 00:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
But here's the thing wave. You took a lead in town position just because your first post was a "follow me to victory" post. You've been very aggressive yes, but you've also been pretty defensive in the face of any criticism. You were incredibly indecisive for the rest of the day, keeping your vote unplaced for longer time than I'd expect after you criticized me early game for not placing my vote. On top of that, you wanted to enact some last minute "shenannies". A scum wave would absolutely know how to manipulate a newbie town, so excuse the town for not trusting your "judgement" thus far.

On October 14 2014 00:54 Requizen wrote:

This is largely how I'm feeling. Wave, your actions are suspicious. You're quick to jump on other people's posting because they don't line up with what you like, yet when people do the same to you, your defense and martyr shield comes up very quickly*. You also have used posts claimed to be "noob moves", such as claiming VT as your first D1 post and causing arguments instead of converstaion.

These actions make you scummy. You're quick to accuse people of starting chaos when you, yourself, have been causing a clamor. Rather than helping the town progress naturally, you are either:

a) Town and trying to force the Town to play your way
or
b) Scum and doing Scum things

Both are bad, one is grounds for lynching. And, if you are Town, then all you're doing is drawing death N1.

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 14 2014 00:56 Requizen wrote:
That said, I think my focus has been too largely on Wave lately. This in and of itself makes me think Scum, using himself as a distraction for other Scum.

Time to go into filters and weed out my town.

On October 14 2014 01:08 Requizen wrote:
I would gladly lead discussion. My desire at this point is to get as much information in the air before D2. If someone has ideas/feels/a train of logic and gets night killed before posting it, then the town is worse off than it is otherwise.

Keeping information to yourself is the same as being a Goon.

On October 14 2014 01:16 jcarlsoniv wrote:
ebwop

On October 14 2014 01:20 Requizen wrote:
To that end I'm going to go through filters and post my thoughts given the results of last night. I will skim through somewhat quickly, as the thread is fairly large, so link me to anything I may miss about a person. They will come as the day progresses.

At the moment, my two biggest Scum reads are still Wave and LordyT. Partially left over from last night, partially because my reasoning still feels good to me. Wave because what I posted above, LordT for the reasons I discussed yesterday. Additionally:

-his early "role call" was highly suspicious
-His list of players is highly iffy. Knowing that MoonBear was VT and (myself) knowing I am not scum, he noted us as scummy. Knowing that he and Wave are on my watchlist, he noted them as townish. And he calls Alzadar scum for "not paying attention to him", which is very much attention drawing.
-His vote changed plenty enough for me to be suspicious. I understand using votes as pressure, but he jumped to many people I don't find suspicious/think may very well be town, and he helped push the MoonBear train pretty hard.

These two are my top picks atm. Please respond with criticism/discussion, or if you are the accused respond with your rebuttal.

On October 14 2014 01:26 ketchup wrote:
Also regarding owb, I think he's definitely town(or as close to town as I can feel someone being town). He says enough small new things combined with the old that I can definitely trust him for it. I really like the Asmo read, and some of his smaller comments that make me feel he cares enough about the game to set it in the right direction.

On October 14 2014 01:35 Requizen wrote:

Redtext - Scum in spotlight draws attention away from other scum. A Goon drawing attention away from Godfather/Vigilante/Poisoner is doing a good job of helping Scum win, even if he dies. Though, that depends on if the player considers a team win still a win despite their own well-being.

Bold - Starting bandwagons against non-scum causes town infighting. Town infighting leads to lynching VTs. In MB's case it didn't matter, he was mostly lynched due to inactivity/no responses to his situation, but worth considering.

Italics - I disagree. I think votepressure is a bad tactic, since unnecessary pressure leads to people suspecting where there is nothing. This is less bandwagoning and more angry mob - one person gets accused, has no response/poor response, everyone jumps on them for not doing it right -> death. Angry mobs don't build towns, they kill innocents.

Underline - It makes sense for Scum!LT to get off of a MB mislynch. It gives a fallback "I didn't vote for lynching the VT!" in the future. For Town!LT, it's a different case.

On October 14 2014 01:47 Requizen wrote:

Maybe I don't understand the meta. But that's my reasoning. To me his actions seemed and still seem suspicious.

You can cause pressure without someone suddenly having 5 votes on them. Take last night for example. Everyone was "pressuing" MB to respond and they all naturally dumped their votes onto him "waiting for an answer", when the only thing he had done that was suspicious was make a dumb post about driving. His lack of an answer got him killed over nothing and all the Townies get to say "well it's not my fault, everyone else voted too". A Townie who jumps onto a pressure vote and kills another non-scum is a) wasting their vote and b) losing the game.

I knew my vote against you wasn't going to get you to talk, since no one else was on there, but I placed it where my feelings were rather than on a random person I wanted to hear talk. And I don't have his verdant green blood on my hands.