I'm not sure why I expected anything else.
Devil's Riddle Mafia
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Hapahauli
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I'm not sure why I expected anything else. | ||
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On September 22 2014 17:12 HaruRH wrote: Those are money milking shows lol. You will literally never see anyone remembering how good those shows were. For example, the better mecha animes would be evangelion, RaXephon, gundam series (they have alternate series for kids and adults, like gundam 00 was for adults whereas gundam age is for kids) while the money milking mecha animes would be crap like.... i don't even remember them. You sir have excellent taste. That and "Bokurano: Ours" are probably two of my favorites. On September 22 2014 17:11 DarthPunk wrote: Only watched Steins Gate and Clannad out of all those you mentioned so I have trouble forming a point of reference for your argument. Anyone Watched Mirai Nikki? That is about High Schoolers but is CERTAINLY not for kids. Oh god yes. You could drive a truck through the plot-holes, but holy geezus christ is it entertaining. | ||
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On September 23 2014 08:01 The_Templar wrote: yes I am actually reading up on the theme, I want to understand what the hell is going on unlike a fire upon the deep. Best co-host 2014. | ||
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On September 23 2014 08:05 VayneAuthority wrote: alright i think i can handle this one... /in May we all say a collective prayer... ...that we will not repeat the past... ...that we will conduct ourselves proper... ...that we will make sure that Koshi and Rayn are never in the same game together ever again... Amen. | ||
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Oh thank god. That deadline would have been hell. | ||
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On September 23 2014 08:36 HaruRH wrote: But I'm getting up at 6am just to host this for you americans I can't hear you over my freedom. | ||
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On September 23 2014 08:52 HaruRH wrote: AMERICA MAY BE FREE BUT YOU DONT HAVE LOL WORLDS CHAMPIONSHIP HAHAHAHAHA + Show Spoiler + .... i need a life. Dota 2 | ||
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On September 23 2014 09:28 Blazinghand wrote: Aldnoah.Zero is actually an excellent anime, even though it drags a little bit in the middle. Mecha anime are typically awful, and by virtue of not being awful, Aldnoah.Zero is excellent. If you imagine it as being a better version of what SEED was supposed to be (an homage to original gundam), it fills the role REALLY well. It has a very similar plot but everything feels better, the stakes feel higher, the MC isn't a whiny bitch, he isn't even a shouting overconfident dude. It's... amazingly not-bad. Alright. Just marathoned through the first 6 episodes, because fuck school. I understand this is the half-way point of the show/season/whatever-is-out-right-now. + Show Spoiler + This MC... you could replace him with a computer, and I don't think the series would actually lose anything. Like... in a series that's all too ready to hammer home the loss, horrors, and trauma of war (also, LOL at PTSD-san), how can you have such an emotionally cold guy at the head of it all? It feels like they tried to give this world a Yang Wen-li, yet removed everything that made Yang a good character. Instead, I get this Robot McBadass which while entertaining, is so unsatisfying. I hope this improves, because the art and the setting are quite nice. But the characters... I can appreciate when anime-stereotypes are done properly (see: Trails in the Sky)... but all the characters here are just poorly fleshed-out one-dimensional seterotypes. | ||
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On September 23 2014 14:28 Blazinghand wrote: You can see why PTSD-San would be a better MC! But nonetheless it's a fine anime. Good fight scenes. Good sense of scale. I totally agree. He's the only mildly interesting character so far... + Show Spoiler + ...until Cruhteo who was ACTUALLY BECOMING INTERESTING and then "lol no sword to the face lololololol u ded bro!" While it's pretty, the window-dressing only does so much. A show is only as good as its characters and story. If it didn't, Sword Art Online would be a good anime. . | ||
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On September 24 2014 01:58 HaruRH wrote: HAHAHA hapa's /in was buried and i didnt notice it. T_T | ||
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Thoughts? | ||
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##Vote Abuse I am not a nice partner. | ||
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On September 24 2014 07:15 Grackaroni wrote: I got Kushm4sta. It might just be in order of sign ups. Impossible, since the pairs are somewhat determined by alignment. | ||
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...abusive. ...heh... | ||
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On September 24 2014 07:26 Chairman Ray wrote: Should neutrals claim? Neutrals? You mean 3rd parties? Or VT roles? | ||
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On September 24 2014 07:28 Chairman Ray wrote: Since a neutral wins regardless if town or mafia wins, is there any point to keeping them a secret? I certainly wouldn't mind claims, but I don't know what incentive 3rd parties would have to claim. | ||
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On September 24 2014 07:32 Chairman Ray wrote: Town doesn't want to lynch 3rd party, mafia doesn't want to kill third party, because it goes against both their win-cons. 3rd party just doesn't want to die. Everyone wins I think. If a 3rd party wants to claim, they can claim. If not, then they won't. We can't force them to this early in the game. Our efforts are better spent elsewhere methinks. | ||
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On September 24 2014 07:40 Grackaroni wrote: I guess that narrows CR/VE out of the lynch pool for today. Incorrect. We lynch who we think is mafia. Not who we find statistically likely to be town or mafia. | ||
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I am not a fan of how you so offhandedly dismissed VE from the lynch pool. | ||
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On September 24 2014 07:47 Chairman Ray wrote: Don't think there's anything I really need to do in this game, have fun guys! Oh no nono. You will get lynched if you don't contribute. Can't let mafia fake-claim and get away with it after all. | ||
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On September 24 2014 07:53 Grackaroni wrote: I can understand disagreeing with me but I don't quite understand why this is scummy? Are you implying that I was trying to protect a scum VE before he even posted? Nah just throwing my vote around 'cause why not. What you said makes sense. I disagree, but makes sense. ##Unvote On September 24 2014 07:53 VayneAuthority wrote: CR is basically a mafia medic why arent we lynching him again? there hasnt been an easier d1 lynch in ages. im fine with you correctly pointing out grack's weird dismissal of VE but not with your vote. I'd much rather lynch mafia than a 3rd party. Also, how is he a mafia medic? If defender saves someone, they win with town, apparently regardless of the alignment of the saved person. | ||
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On September 24 2014 08:07 DarthPunk wrote: He is not town. Anyway talk it over chaps. I hope to have a lot to read when I get back. Yes, but he's the defender - the only 3rd party that can't dick over the town. | ||
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On September 24 2014 10:33 yamato77 wrote: so uh hapa is mafia go No. *pout* | ||
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On September 24 2014 10:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I wanted to say this too but I call Hapa mafia like EVERY D1 I've ever played with him. But he REALLY didn't want people to think they can't lynch VE today, which really chaps my ass, because I really DO want people to think they can't lynch VE today. Hey man, you make about 20 posts, I'll make a case on you, and it'll be all back to normal. On September 24 2014 10:56 VisceraEyes wrote: So while I AM partnered with Chairman Ray, I'm NOT sure what I think about the Defender claim. Statistically it's more likely that he's town/3p I guess, but does the Defender just claim like that? Like, if he's not intending to save anyone tonight then what's the point of claiming? Was it just because of Damdred (or whoever) asking the third parties to claim that caused him to claim? Think of it from a win-condition perspective. If he's really the Defender then PRESENTLY his win-condition is to survive til endgame. If he makes a save then his win-con changes to a TOWN win condition, but from what I see it looks like PRESENTLY his win-condition is to just survive til end-game. Why wouldn't mafia kill him in the night then? If he's able to interfere with their kills, then there's literally no reason NOT to put a bullet on him REGARDLESS of the fact that he's claimed third party. How about if he actually DOES make a save? MMMEEEEEHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....I'm pretty sure I don't believe the claim. I'm not sure what I think this means with regard to his alignment, though I lean mafia. I'll give a definitive answer on that a little later (he's posted exactly once in the QT, so he at the very least knows where it's located.) However it seems like he's claimed that he's done posting for the day. If that's the case then I'm all about lynching him. CR's claim is legit. I'm annoyed that it is, but it is. While Oats is correct that a 3rd party might not counter-claim here, it's still risky for mafia to do. It's hard to claim something like this really early since there is a risk you'll be CC'd. You just can't predict what that 3rd party player will do. So the timing makes it believable in my book. A later claim... probably not. On September 24 2014 10:46 Damdred wrote: Wwhat do you guys think of vayne atm Vayne is vayne. Slightly anal-retentive regarding CR, but that's normal for either alignment. | ||
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##Vote Geript | ||
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What do you make of CR's claim? RE: Geript Geript is mafia because his play is completely disjointed with the thread flow. On September 24 2014 08:17 geript wrote: Oh thank god. I'm not Vayne's partner. Unfortunately I got mystery meat so who knows how that will end up. On September 24 2014 08:19 geript wrote: I'm half tempted to flip CR to see if VE is confirmed town or not. On September 24 2014 08:20 geript wrote: Vayne seems like he cares about this game. That kinda makes me want to lynch him too. On September 24 2014 09:13 geript wrote: I'll claim 3P. That should give me a day to reach a 7 page filter :-P On September 24 2014 09:24 geript wrote: It's a joke. I assumed anyone who played BH's game would get it. Apparently not. Geript makes his entrance with these posts, and they completely ignore the current line of discussion. Literally everyone is talking about CR's claim, but geript chooses to ignore this. It would be OK if these posts were useful or provided something informative, but they are largely 1-lined throwaway comments ( and 1 terrible joke) that "act confident" but don't say anything of value. Then the next time he returns: On September 24 2014 10:33 geript wrote: CR-VE Hapa-Abuse Vayne--DP Grack--Kush but Kush isn't on the sign up Geript--MysteryMeat Oats--Damdred So here's where we're at. He posts this, which is so typical of someone trying to appear useful without actually being so. In his filter he still has yet to even touch the CR stuff, which is an event that everyone else so far immediately locked onto and provided input. So basically, geript's play so far has been making throw-away "confident" posts that add nothing to discussion while ignoring the current flow of discussion - a mentality I associate with an early-game mafia trying too hard to fit in. Lastly, as a result of my provocations: On September 24 2014 11:45 geript wrote: No sir. You are not going to call me scum Hapa. If you even think it one more time I will lynch the fuck out of you. This "come at me bro" post is just the worst. And this is not a bullshit Day 1 read - I'm actually pretty confident about this one. | ||
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On September 24 2014 12:44 yamato77 wrote: I don't see much I would deem particularly interesting in that filter, Hapa. Exactly. | ||
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On September 24 2014 12:50 DarthPunk wrote: And do you think Hapa knew that? Is there some obvious reason for not questioning you on that throw away read? Cause if you called ME mafia I would be all up in your grill about why, especially if you provided zero reasoning, and I think Town!Hapa would want to know your thought process also, rather than just ignoring it which is essentially what he did. What do you think of my hapa post? Of course I knew that. Do you think I"m the densest player in the world? | ||
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On September 24 2014 12:51 DarthPunk wrote: How did you know that? What evidence was there that the read was not genuine? Because I dont' think like a brick. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:00 DarthPunk wrote: Correct there was no evidence. A townie would question Yamato for that. Hell the first thing I thought when I read that was "why?" but you just ignored it. That is scummy. Vayne could very well be scum. He basically has a hard on for lynching the least threatening third party we could have in this game. I mean, sure, I could lynch third party. But I would want to try and lynch mafia first. Ok. Given that Yamato and I have an extensive history, why should I feel remotely threatened by something he does all the time? There are things not worth caring about. For some reason, you think my meta is that I"m reactionary to every time my name is mentioned. Which is far from the truth. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:07 DarthPunk wrote: No i think your meta is to try and figure out why people do/say stuff and there is a distinct lack of that. I also think your geript case looks and feels contrived, none of your stated explanations for scum!geript are that convincing and yet you are confident in your read for a reason I can't fathom. For someone who hates bad meta cases, you are really bad at meta. | ||
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Which do you think is more likely? | ||
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This is going nowhere. Let me know when you're ready to do productive things. Like lynching geript. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:04 Grackaroni wrote: Geript's posts just feel really awkward to me so I guess I like Hapa's narrative. Not realizing he has a qt doesn't really help his case. Think about how awkard geript's posts sound in the context of the thread. There is a clear conversation topic that everyone is discussing (CR's claim), then he enters the thread and posts completely useless crap, then a summary post of pairings. On September 24 2014 13:23 DarthPunk wrote: I'm being productive. Why don't you try and convince me of geript being scum if you are so certain? See: above I generally don't care to argue with the one person in every one of my town games that always finds me scummy on day 1. It's a chore, and a waste of my time given that everyone else will read me as town. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:32 DarthPunk wrote: I don't think you are scummy every time you are town at all. So that is bullshit. Not engaging in a discourse is anti-town and if people read you as town from what you have contributed thus far well I would be appalled honestly. Again, not worth my time. What makes Geript more likely to be scum over a townie who didn't read his pm properly and was just talking shit at the start of the game? Because this is more than just him not reading his PM properly. This is him entering the thread and posting for the sake of posting as opposed to reading the thread. Odds are that a player who does something like this is mafia. Not a "townie who is talking shit." | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:36 DarthPunk wrote: I think mafia are more likely to read the thread properly and less likely to shitpost like that. I think you don't know how to scumhunt. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:36 DarthPunk wrote: I think mafia are more likely to read the thread properly and less likely to shitpost like that. See the thing is that this is explanation is not likely. For example, take a look at this in geript's filter: On September 24 2014 10:33 geript wrote: CR-VE Hapa-Abuse Vayne--DP Grack--Kush but Kush isn't on the sign up Geript--MysteryMeat Oats--Damdred So here's where we're at. Here's something that shows that he did sort of read the thread and is trying to contribute. The key word here is "sort-of". Mafia is about finding out who is deceiving you. If geript truly didn't read a damn thing and shitposted the whole filter, you might have an argument. That is a plausible town behavior. However this is not the behavior that geript is exhibiting. He enters the thread, shitposts, then attemps to contribute with a post that clearly read every single partner claim, then "come-at-me-bro's", which is very inconsistent. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:40 yamato77 wrote: DP tryharding is adorable. | ||
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I'll re-write my case into something a little more presentable. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:43 DarthPunk wrote: Hmmmm. I guess that is a good point actually. It shows that Geript is not invested in being actually productive. I'm still not sure that makes him mafia though. Ok cool atleast we're somewhat on the same page then. We're less than 24 hours into day one, and I think that's as good a reason of any to vote someone. Hell if I had evidence that someone wasn't being invested in being productive, I'd probably vote them 48 hours in as well. | ||
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Bro. Have you played with me before? Like... do you remember the things I've done to you? | ||
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So you conceded I made a good point in my case against geript, and one of the main reasons you think I'm mafia is because my case was fabricated. This doesn't really hold. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:52 DarthPunk wrote: Do mafia never make good points in their cases on townies? If that was the case this game would be really really easy. Of course mafia and town can. The key here is mafia and town. You're using a null tell to call me mafia. | ||
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On September 24 2014 13:58 DarthPunk wrote: No. I think the way you are behaving in totality is scummy also, I just used that case as a focal point of some pressure because it felt so contrived, but conceded that the case made at least one reasonable point. "In totality" huh. Tell me more. | ||
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Instead, I made a "good point" that doesn't make geript suspicious? How does that make sense? How is it a good point? Are you intentionally trying to tunnel me or something? What's the deal? | ||
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On September 24 2014 14:02 kushm4sta wrote: 3 person game right here. The 4th slot is open for anyone who'd like to join in on the fun. | ||
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On September 24 2014 14:04 DarthPunk wrote: Or I will just keep it to myself until I have enough to lynch you with or change my mind. So you're bullshitting to "pressure" me? | ||
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Annoying. | ||
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Oh god. I'm getting tunneled for 48 hours. | ||
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The only 3 people active in this game aren't mafia. Let's focus on the mafia please. | ||
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Also, reading Kush as town for being himself is nonsense. | ||
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But it's kush. | ||
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On September 24 2014 15:31 DarthPunk wrote: SO basically Hapa's case is: "Look at what geript did and how awkward it sounds. That makes him scum, I am so certain of this that I think it is a lock solid day one scum lynch. BUT I can't really make a good case on him beyond showing you what he has posted and calling it awkward." Am I getting this right? Oh come on this is so disingenuous. You even said I had a good point about him. | ||
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I'm not sure if he's town, but I can't say I'm convinced he's mafia. | ||
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On September 24 2014 15:37 DarthPunk wrote: Your point was in the context of my Assertions that he wasn't reading the thread. Seems like he is reading the thread/ read the thread from his explanations. If you chose to believe his explanations over mine because of gut feels, then there's not much I can say. Regardless, I'd appreciate if I could talk to geript without dealing with your dickery | ||
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On September 24 2014 15:40 geript wrote: It's kinda funny though, I think DP is town for all that bullshit. Like, I feel like when I've seen DP be mafia, his bullshit seems to have more of a purpose behind it. He seems so confirmation biased that he has to be town. Anyway, you've been so productive in the last page that I think you're town. :toot: | ||
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On September 24 2014 15:41 DarthPunk wrote: Don't see how I am being a dick to be honest. I would just like to be able to talk to someone in this thread without the thread's crazy old man yelling over my shoulder every 10 seconds. | ||
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Going to bed, will re-read tomorrow. Off the top of my head, the other people that looked somewhat sketch were MysteryMeat (albeit lynchbait) and VE (bunch of posts, no content beyond some "townie-points" things, seemed to overplay it quite a bit). | ||
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On September 24 2014 15:48 geript wrote: Either way Hapa, what did you want to know. Right now I'm kinda in the mood to check Grack, you, DP and Yam off of the lynch list and look at other people. That actually narrows down the field pretty heavily. I won't lie and say I'm not half tempted to lynch the fuck out of Abuse to see if he flips red though. Abuse will posts when he posts. Regardless, it's better to vig an AFK player than waste a lynch on him. From the OP, it's likely town has KP. | ||
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On September 24 2014 15:51 geript wrote: Yah but of the vets other than VE, I think you're the most likely to flip mafia imo. So lynching an AFK actually gives us better information on who to shoot. Not really. You'd want to lynch someone, shoot the AFK, then use that information to determine whether or not his partner is worth looking into. It's just so hard to get good information out of an AFK lynch, since the reasons are so straightforward. | ||
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If you made my "town points" thing to be suspicious and mafia-motivated, why did you play along so much? On September 24 2014 11:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Is it because he wants to call me "confirmed town" based on CR's flip in spite of no such certainty coming with such a flip? On September 24 2014 11:43 VisceraEyes wrote: I get 'em bitch, I gave reasoning. You just quoted a post GET OFF ME!!! On September 24 2014 11:45 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm guessing Hapa's reasoning, I didn't say I thought you were scummy for it. I would absolutely LOVE for you to call me confirmed town for whatever reason you want! | ||
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On September 24 2014 16:29 VisceraEyes wrote: What I find suspicious is that there wasn't any townie points for me to have Hapa! THERE WERE NO TOWNIE POINTS FOR ME TO WREST FROM YOU WILLFULLY!!!! I'm not joking around VE. Explain yourself. | ||
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On September 24 2014 16:29 geript wrote: ? Huh. I don't get what you're referencing. Swear I'm going to sleep here soon. Was responding to Grack: On September 24 2014 16:22 Grackaroni wrote: I think VEs just jealous he had to share the townie points | ||
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Do you see VE's response as serious? Because I don't. | ||
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Doesn't make sense to me at all. Because obviously VE or anyone didn't come close to mentioning the stuff in my case. | ||
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Give me a minute. | ||
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Alright I'm going to go through this post read-by-read, because a lot of it just straight-up doesn't make sense. I'll ignore the read on me, because obviously I'm going to disagree with it no matter what allignment I am (although I can post thoughts if someone requests so). It's also a read I can see a townie making. The other reads... not so much. yamato is probably town - standard 1-liner posts, general observations...I don't like that he's suspicious of me, but not everyone is as perfect as me. "General observations" and "standard 1-liners" are objectively suspicious, and are more often used as scumtells as opposed to town-tells. It's also very strange to see him this confident about a read like that so early on. Damdred and I seem to be on the same wavelength at least in terms of what we're looking for to find mafia - gonna throw him in the townpile for now and see how I like that. If you read Damdred's filter, it's hard to imagine what this "same wavelength" could be: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/467155-devils-riddle-mafia?user=Damdred This is the only interaction that VE and Damdred have, and it's on the subject of CR being the Defender. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/467155-devils-riddle-mafia?page=17#331 Other than that, Damdred's filter is a) Other stuff on CR (irrelevant to "being on the same wavelegnth in scumhunting" b) Suspicion on geript (not mentioned by VE) c) Finding me town (the exact opposite of VE's read) So by all objective measures, this read is completely contrived by VE. MM1 gets 1 Townie Brownie for making a decent case on Kush before he entered the thread. If we lynch a lurker instead of a scumspect, I'm willing to go with Kush based on MM1's observation. Will not lynch MM1 today. MM1 did not make a case on Kush. CR hasn't said anything more in our QT. He's claimed 3rd Party in the thread. There you go. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/467155-devils-riddle-mafia?page=16#310 This is far fromt he "definitive" answer promised by VE earlier, not to mention that that post I linked in retrospect is a 3-paragraph way of saying "Idunno about CR's claim" | ||
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On September 24 2014 16:44 DarthPunk wrote: When you mentioned the game (does anyone see what I see) VE tried to guess what it was you were talking about. He leaves, While he is gone you post a case on geript that doesn't really contain anything that would make sense in the (do you see what I see) game. Therefore VE finds that suspicious and something that mafia would do. You ask for clarification, he clarifies by saying there was no townie points to be had because the game you started was unsolvable due to it being, in VE's opinion, disingenuous or fraudulent. Which is a position I can empathize with. Why are you answering for VE? He is perfectly capable of answering for himself. There are many things he needs to answer for me. | ||
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On September 24 2014 16:29 VisceraEyes wrote: What I find suspicious is that there wasn't any townie points for me to have Hapa! THERE WERE NO TOWNIE POINTS FOR ME TO WREST FROM YOU WILLFULLY!!!! It toes a very awkward line between serious and trolly. And that does not feel natural to me at all. | ||
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Does VE have a history of reading you early and well? i.e. Is he someone that can have a confident opinion on you early on? | ||
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On September 24 2014 16:57 DarthPunk wrote: The tone is not alignment indicativeand it is consistent with other posts he made during the day. It is very off when you're dealing with someone who you think is mafia. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/467155-devils-riddle-mafia?page=28#547 | ||
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On September 24 2014 17:00 geript wrote: I get where you're coming from Hapa re: tone. It just feels really weird for you to make a good logical post re:VE calling Damfred town bros and on the same page as him to the tone read. Something that's definitely, IMO, not really quite in your wheelhouse and less odd from VE as either alignment. Are you saying I don't do tone reads? huh? | ||
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On September 24 2014 17:05 geript wrote: I can't really remember you doing them in any of the games I've played or read. I've always remembered you as logical and methodical. I actually am pretty sure on my read on VE. I want to sleep on it though. It's something I've tried to pay a lot of attention to since in the Shadow game, where gonzaw made a couple of really good posts on Holyflare's emotional inconsistencies. That was also one of my last games before the extended break from mafia I took, so I'm not surprised you haven't seen me use these types of reads. | ||
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On September 24 2014 17:16 geript wrote: Also fwiw Hapa, on the face it doesn't look good. But I've seen townies do something like that a bunch. I'd be less concerned if VE made one botched read. One bad read does not make someone mafia. Three to four in one post? You would literally have to not read the thread to hold all of those reads simultaneously. It all seems very deceptive. Like he skimmed the thread quick, threw together a bunch of reads for the sake of completeness, and portrayed himself as very confident and on top of things. So it's everything combined that sets the scum-alarms off. | ||
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I am grumpy and tired. Will read Oats tomorrow. Gnite world. | ||
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On September 24 2014 18:05 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not joking around either. There was no point to the post you made referencing "townie points", which means that you never found anything suspicious about geript. Your whole "case" on him is just listing out his posts and making generic statements about them, which I could literally do about anyone in the thread as either alignment and I know geript can too, and I have a sneaking suspicion that you know that too. So don't tell ME to explain myself Hapa. YOU explain YOURSELF. WHY were there no townie points to be had? Why did you say there was something specific about geript's posts that you noticed which you never really mention? Unless you're talking about the whole "disjointed from the thread" thing which I don't even see and looks completely made up. All of this is pretty simple to answer: I forced the hell out of my case on geript because it's something I like doing in mafia games. Things like "townie points" and "this is not a joke case" are devices used to get people interested and read what I post. Create a big thread event, and watch the activity and actions unfold. You should know this first hand. In Shadow Mini mafia, I forced a very early case on you as town. Same as in the Duke Nukem Hydra game. It's fun, creates activity, and all and all is a good time. Now since we both think the other is mafia, it's your turn to answer me VE. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/467155-devils-riddle-mafia?page=28#547 You made a post calling me scum and dropping a handful of town-reads. Those town-reads look completely fabricated and incomprehensible. | ||
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On September 24 2014 18:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Yamato will surely verify that I can and do read him confidently, early and well. We shall see. My read on Damdred is based on him noticing the same thing about geript that I did when you mentioned it. This doesn't hold water. Not only do you not mention geript in your reads post, but Damdred thinks I'm town. How is that reomtely on the same "wavelength" and deserving of throwing someone on a "townpile"? My read on MM is based on exactly what I said it was. Oh I actually did miss that MM post. Regardless, it's bullshit. On September 24 2014 11:57 MysteryMeat1 wrote: If i had to make a case, it would be town kush would have posted already? I dont think ive been in a game where kush was mafia iirc So this post exonerates MM from a lynch today, and is a rational reason to lynch kush? Is that correct? | ||
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No way. He's so much more paranoid than this as town. The very fact that he can give town passes like that is incomprehensible for his town play. Town VE and "multiple confident town-reads" are oil and water. I'll post something more detailed tomorrow. ##Vote VE | ||
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Everything about VE's play screams "false confidence". This is a quote from VE in Storm 2 mafia. On July 08 2014 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote: It's essentially that he felt the need to come in here and be seen interacting with people in the thread, but didn't say a single thing that could even be construed as an opinion. Everyone else who was active early on has continued to show signs of life, but mderg just made a few throwaway posts and then peaced out. ##Vote: mderg If anyone's got anything better I'm all ears, but I'm not interested in lynching any super active players at least this phase. It's counterproductive. Active players will eventually give you more to go on. It's very descriptive of his early town Day 1 play. Town VE likes going for people who aren't active and are not contributing. To go after me this confidently early on is really really unlike his town-play. And this is very consistent through his recent town-games. In LXVIII, he is on a lot of wagons, focusing mostly on Lurkers and newer players. First Fecalcast, then an inactive holyflare, then a brief OMGUS on Rayn before wanting to lynch an afk Palmar at the end of the day due to town consensus. In Storm 2, he tunnles mderg, a classic Day 1 lurker. In Neat and Tidy Mafia, he goes after MysteryMeat for early Day 1, who was inactive/lurkish/etc. In Normal Mini LVI, he reads SloOsh and BH as possibly mafia, but turns down voting them in favor of a lurkish player, mderg: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=14#262 The basic summary is that VE as town is not a player who confidently locks onto one player. He's a guy that's always mindful of inactives, has a self-awareness of his play and the rest of the game, to the point where he will drop his own reads to consolidate with the opinion of the town. To go after me (a vet, and the most active player in the game so far) so early and so confidently is so unlike his town-play. To instantly read two less-active players as town (MM and Damdred) so early into the game is borderline insanity for his town play. Take a look at this quote from VE's most recent town game (LXVIII): On September 15 2014 23:28 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't want to lynch rayn but I will if all my townies agree he's mafia. But frankly I don't want to lynch one of the Rock Stars either, so I don't like disagree with rayn. Palmar gave a TONE read. Does he do that? When did he die and become Robik? What's going on here? He reads rayn as town, but is self-aware enough of his own read-accuracy that he's willing to be bullied off of reads. YOSO Mafia contains my favorite example of this: On April 27 2014 05:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Like whatever you don't like my townread of Caller. Cool story bros. ##Unvote ##Vote: Caller Maybe you're right. The remainder of my posts will be about other players. Thank you for your patience and understanding. ...where VE literally gets bullied off of his town-read of Caller pages after he makes it. Self-awareness of his own accuracy, etc. So VE is so mindful of thread sentiment and the opinions of other townies that he can be bullied off of his own reads. Consistently. He'll even swap votes just because other people aren't agreeing with him without even changing his mind about his reads. VE is defined by confidence. And this confidence usually manifests itself through his reads. His early Day 1 play in Catastrophe Mafia: On April 03 2014 12:06 VisceraEyes wrote: iamperfection is saying all the right things to all the right people. #toptownmvpyoloswag420blazeit I'm town too, and we're going to wreck face. Get dominated scum. On April 03 2014 12:22 VisceraEyes wrote: It's suspicious because you could maybe be on a team with the person you're ignoring - or maybe trying to buddy them in some way. It's suspicious because it seems like you have information that the rest of us don't have, or at least I THINK that's what Killing is saying. I think you're town as fuck. On April 03 2014 12:25 VisceraEyes wrote: iamp, JAT and VE. Killing town too, maybe Wave, maybe sandroba. Maybe not sandroba. I'll lynch any lurker, including myself. Any questions? No? Good, everyone GO. Town reads everywhere. Really confident about them, but also very questionable logic. Tone is half-trollish, half-serious, and VE is appearing to play along with the thread. Sound familiar? This is exactly what he did in this game. Play along wiht the townie points thing, take a very half-serious/trollish tone, and dole out some incomprensibly confident town-reads on MM/Damdred for incomprehensible reasons. His confidence manifests itself in Carnival Cruise through his scum-reads. An initial super-confident push on WaveOfShadow: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/407685-carnival-cruise-mafia?page=22#435 Doesn't really drop his case on Wave, then pushes Oats: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/407685-carnival-cruise-mafia?page=23#443 Then, all aboard the VAYNE TRAIN! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/407685-carnival-cruise-mafia?page=44#876 He's super-confident about all of his early pushes, and by the end of Day 1, thinks all of these players are mafia. Isn't necessarily going after lurkers, and is just indiscriminately going on people he can push cases on. | ||
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On September 24 2014 23:28 Damdred wrote: Also hapa, VE really was like this in the fanfic game, he gave out town passes like a pedophile gives out candy and he scum hunted from that. He was totes town that game, and hes acting pretty close to it. Ah this was what I was looking for. It is true that VE gave out a bunch of town-reads in the fanfic game. However it makes sense in the context of his town play. I'll pull up the quote from my case, from Storm 2 mafia: On July 08 2014 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote: It's essentially that he felt the need to come in here and be seen interacting with people in the thread, but didn't say a single thing that could even be construed as an opinion. Everyone else who was active early on has continued to show signs of life, but mderg just made a few throwaway posts and then peaced out. ##Vote: mderg If anyone's got anything better I'm all ears, but I'm not interested in lynching any super active players at least this phase. It's counterproductive. Active players will eventually give you more to go on. Town VE wants to go after lurkers, not active players. As seen in Normal Mini Mafia LVI, he's actually a player that will turn down lynching a more active vet that he has clear suspicions on in favor of a less-active lurking player: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/458796-normal-mini-mafia-lvi?page=14#262 Now in the FanFic game, you'll notice that all of his "town-reads" are on the active players. On September 15 2014 10:02 VisceraEyes wrote: For the moment, I'm referring to everyone in the above conversation as the "Rock Stars" and they're all off limits for lynch today. Like all of them. Thank you for your understanding. VE quoted this as if it described his play this game. It does not. VE literally states that everyone ACTIVE IN THE DISCUSSION of the fanfic game is not lynchable. This is 100% consistent with town VE's approach - ignore actives, lynch inactives. In this game, it is the opposite. Lynch actives, town-read inactives. | ||
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There are some newcomers that I'll have to take a look at right now. | ||
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Go read through one of VE's town-games and watch him flip-flop relentlessly on reads, be unsure of himself, build a case and then promptly back down due to peer pressure and no one listening to him... | ||
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Like the guy posts early in in this thread that he always reads me as mafia early. You'd think he'd be more mindful of this, but instead he's tunneling me as if he's 100% sure that he's right THIS TIME. How can someone have that confidence, much less a player like VE known for not having much thereof? Also, take a look at the way VE pushes me. He seems more interested in calling me mafia and me "flailing" than trying to figure out my alignment. | ||
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On September 25 2014 07:24 Damdred wrote: Ok hapa who do you think is the most scummy today so far and why besides ve? (I also take offense to being called a low poster this game when I have a decent sized filter with no filler from pregame!) You were at the time that VE made his read on you. And I can't say your 2.5 pages of filter is inspiring. Anyway, here's where I am: CR-VE I think VE is our solo mafia pairing, with CR being the blue. I think I've made my reasons clear by now. Hapa-Abuse Hello I am me. Abuse seems fine. He seems enthusiastic and ready to share his ideas. Liked this in particular: On September 25 2014 03:40 abuse wrote: You either share your gum with the entire class, or don't chew it in front of everybody. If I'm wrong about VE, I don't think abuse is the solo mafia. Vayne--DP I think this is a town-pairing. DP's push on me is annoying, but seems very genuine. He's interested in figuring out my alignment, is annoyed that I'm not telling him what he's expecting, etc. This stuff about the 3rd party makes me lean town on Vayne. His stance on lynching CR is so absolute that I find it hard to come from a mafia mindset. Grack--Kush/rightinthefeels Geript--MysteryMeat Oats--Damdred Prome--yam These are your plausible mafia pairings. I'm fairly null on the Grack/Kush pairing. There's nothing overtly bad I see in their filters, but nothing good either. Grack in particular is pretty forgettable this game. The Oats/Damdred pairing... leaning town. Mostly because of Oats. Oats seems to be doing his own thing and intermittedly calling people bad. As mafia, he tends to be much more "reasonable." Null on Damdred, 3 pages, largely forgettable. Prome/Yam... I think Yam is town. I have very mixed feelings on Prome. I think his first post is awful, and he basically wants to lynch 3 players who haven't posted at the time he made that post. I do think he is capable of such a post as town tough. So Prome is plausible mafia, but I do not think Yamato is part of a mafia pairing. Geript/MM - I'd wager this to be our mafia pairing right now, which I'll get to next post. | ||
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On September 25 2014 07:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Anyone can see that my play has changed dramatically over the period of time between when those games you quoted were played and now. But that's MUCH better Hapa. Much. ##Unvote Like your posts yesterday calling me mafia didn't say anything like that. Yamato's posts on the matter had no detail and because I disagree that my townplay lacks confidence I took it as him just seeing something that isn't there. But you're right, my play HAS changed that much I guess. Anyway I'm town, and I'm willing to not lynch you today based on that case. It's far more put together and detailed than I was expecting given you responses last night. How has your townplay changed that much? The fanfic game for example is markedly different from your gameplay here. In that game, you were overwhelmingly town-reading active players. In this game, you are overwhelmingly town-reading lurkers. | ||
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WP Damdred. WP. | ||
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I am always worried about going after lynchbait. But his play is pretty classic mafia right now... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/467155-devils-riddle-mafia?user=MysteryMeat1 ...because this guy "doesn't like" everything he sees in the thread: On September 24 2014 11:44 MysteryMeat1 wrote: I actually dont like cr's play atm either. Hes roled mafia every game on tl, and complains everytime that he isnt town. I feel like he would be happier to play. Doesn't like CR's play On September 24 2014 11:57 MysteryMeat1 wrote: If i had to make a case, it would be town kush would have posted already? I dont think ive been in a game where kush was mafia iirc Nor Kush's lack of posting... On September 25 2014 03:38 MysteryMeat1 wrote: I don't really like VE, this game. Maybe his reads on me have changed since he found out my IRL identity, but i don't think he calls me town this early. My case on kush wasn't even serious when i posted it, and yet somehow i gained massive town points for it? ...nor VE... On September 25 2014 03:45 MysteryMeat1 wrote: I don't really like Hap, and i have no clue on DP. This is the first time i've ever played a game and probably the first time ive heard of him on TL ...nor myself... It seems like he just finds things "not to like", as opposed to actually trying to figure out the game. His filter is devoid of actual analysis beyond these "do not like" quips at random posts and players. Geript: I think I got too taken in by his performance last night. His play is lacking... madness. Geript is a player notorious for getting into insane arguments, tunnels, and confirmation bias with his targets. In this game, he is surprisingly... reasonable? But not in a good way. Take how his read evolves on me last night: On September 24 2014 14:58 geript wrote: This post feels a bit off to me. I don't think I've seen Hapa pressure someone for a reasonable play before then withdraw pressure so quickly. Idk, I just feel like as town he'd push grak a bit more to get a better read or until something more interesting came up. Here, my post is "off". On September 24 2014 15:14 geript wrote: This specifically bugs me. I think town Hapa would point out that, regardless of alignment, I would get a QT. Hapa lumping that in the scum pile makes me think he's not actually concerned with thinking about the game critically. My post here bugs geript... On September 24 2014 15:28 geript wrote: This post makes me really want to lynch the fuck out of Hapa. In my experience as mafia, it's far easier to create a believable narrative than it is to create a believable case. The fact that Hapa is pushing a narrative and using that specific quote as evidence feels exceptionally off. It's very weird of Hapa to let his "stonecold lock mafia read" be described as something as low as a "narrative." Maybe that's just semantics, but that's really odd. This post makes geript want to "lynch the fuck out of " me. So here the stage is set for a CLASSIC geript OMGUS tunnel. I would expect him to go off the rails here like in so many of his other games I have spectated/hosted recently. Yet... this doesn't happen. On September 24 2014 15:31 geript wrote: Boooh. Idk. I'll give Hapa more time. Still not a happy panda. Huhwat. On September 24 2014 15:48 geript wrote: Either way Hapa, what did you want to know. Right now I'm kinda in the mood to check Grack, you, DP and Yam off of the lynch list and look at other people. That actually narrows down the field pretty heavily. I won't lie and say I'm not half tempted to lynch the fuck out of Abuse to see if he flips red though. ...wait didn't one of my posts make you want to lynch the fuck out of me? The only thing that gives me some pause on Geript is this: On September 24 2014 16:02 geript wrote: To some extent it's the reminder from Yam, that Hapa does like his early game tunnels. To some extent it's just thinking that I'll be able to read Hapa more objectively when he's not tunneling me. To some extent it's Hapa's direction after tunneling me. I think he's kinda townreading you and yam; which makes him look at VE more. But that's a bit concerning now that I think about it because of the CR claim. This isn't making me think of him more positively which is yet another reason why I want to lynch the AFK Abuse. But I don't tend to have a good history of reading people correctly when they're tunneled on me unless it's already pretty mid-late game. Which I find a plausible explanation for why he's so calm about his read on me, and treating me as if I'm not lynch-able today. Not sure how likely it is, but the plausibility is the reason that I have my vote on VE right now. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:16 geript wrote: Hapa, how in the fuck do you have a townread on Abuse. I don't see any player even Marv having any realistic sensible read on Abuse. You've quite literally been shield him all fucking game long. Explain how in the fuck he's town or we definitely are lynching you. I can elaborate. But first you need to answer how the fuck you have a town-read on MM1 | ||
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On September 25 2014 03:26 geript wrote: ... Prome feels towny but his initial post made me want to lynch him. MM1 looks slightly better from what he's posted in QT but not enough that I'm sold he's town yet. Abuse's entry make me happy to lynch him. ... Right before this: On September 25 2014 08:16 geript wrote: Hapa, how in the fuck do you have a townread on Abuse. I don't see any player even Marv having any realistic sensible read on Abuse. You've quite literally been shield him all fucking game long. Explain how in the fuck he's town or we definitely are lynching you. ...is a no no. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:21 Damdred wrote: Hapa how many games have you played with MM? None. I have come across his play in readthroughs, hence I know he has a reputation for being an early lynch target. On September 25 2014 08:20 kushm4sta wrote: so hapa, your case on mm1 is he uses "i dont like" to call things scummy? Not really. He just seems to be indiscriminately calling things scummy. I don't care what language he uses to do it, it's just the fact that he's continuously posting these quips with the bare minimum of rationale, and with whatever the thread sentiment currently is at the moment. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:24 kushm4sta wrote: I find posts like this really townie actually, because he is rapid fire giving off lots of scumhunting ideas that all make sense. Maybe he hasn't explained them but I'm sure he could. The individual post is fine. It's the pairing that's bad. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:26 MysteryMeat1 wrote: So to clarify, the only two people that i didn't like where you and VE, and i gave you a better town read after your case on VE. So is VE your only scumread? And your reasons are...just my case? Or something else? | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:22 yamato77 wrote: lol if hapa already nailed the scum team just lol And you say that I"m buddying you >> Snarky comments aside, where do you stand on this game aside from VE? | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:30 yamato77 wrote: I like you, Prom, and Damdred for town. DP looks bad to me but he has yet to return so meh. What in particular is bad about DP? | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:32 yamato77 wrote: The holes I poked in his argument with you. Well at the same time, he doesn't have a reputation for reading me well. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:36 yamato77 wrote: His mindset of "hapa is scum, and I'm going to spend all these posts calling him scum/arguing with him, but I won't lynch him d1" is just atrocious. In particular. Fair enough. May as well wait for him to get back anyway. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:40 kushm4sta wrote: however i would counterpoint with 1 bare minimum rationale - easy not scummy 2 follows thread sentiment - giving opinions on thread sentiment isn't scummy. being disconnected i think is more scummy. Everything can be counter-pointed this early in the game kush. We just have to decide how plausible something is or not. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:42 MysteryMeat1 wrote: lets all ignore my postings... Well I'm less interested in hearing you justify yourself than hearing your non-VE reads. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:36 geript wrote: First off, my townread on MM1 isn't terribly strong. It's mostly based off of him posting things in the QT between when I was asleep and when I woke up that pretty heavily mirrored where I was at in general without me posting those thoughts anywhere. You can understand why this is very unsatisfying to the rest of us, no? As for abuse, I just generally like the tone of his posting. He sounds enthusiastic, is fairly attentive to the thread (I like how he pointed out your "read" of MM). When you jumped on him, he seemed pretty calm and reasonable about the whole thing, which I liked alot coming out of a not-so-experienced player: On September 25 2014 03:38 abuse wrote: I mean the way he posts mainly. Also, I don't doubt his push is serious, though I do not really agree with it, because I do not see hapa being scummy. for me, right now, vayne is scummy. I am not done with my analysis yet though. geript - explain why my entry makes you happy to lynch me? Seems a bit fake, considering even what you are saying about VE right now is complimenting what I said about him in my entry post. Promethelax, are you honestly thinking that just asking about masons is enough to be painted as town? Do you really think that kush did not read the OP of the game he signed up for? If we assume he did, would you say that these words would most likely come from a scum kush or a townie kush? Certainly not the strongest town-read ever, but at the same time, I'm not lynching him today. No way. | ||
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Also, how did I pass on Oats/Damdred? I find Damdred null. I find Oats town for reasons that I mentioned. I don't think it gets much clearer. | ||
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On September 25 2014 08:52 MysteryMeat1 wrote: oats/damdred, oats play soo far has reminded me of when we played together in cell, Also not a fan of damdred who makes the case with oats in the morning and doesn't seem to re-evaluate whats happened throughout the day. Can you elaborate on this? If Oats' play reminds you of his play in Cell III, in what ways does it do so? Describe Oats' mafia play in Cell III. As for Damdred, what makes you think that he hasn't re-evaluated? Also, why is failure to change reads a scumtell? | ||
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Your read on me seems to ebb and flow with how much I read you as mafia. | ||
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@ MM: On September 25 2014 09:06 MysteryMeat1 wrote: I've only played the cell game with oats, and in cell he barely contributed at all. He was not memorable and hasn't played differently than that game. I think a few things have happened this game, and damdred has been keeping up on it. Oats also hasn't really said anything but calling geript and DP mafia. I don't think failing to change reads is a scumtell, i think newer information needs to be taken into account, and if it supports your reads or disagrees with your reads then it matters. WEll you realize this is fairly incomplete logic on both players right? So why are you scumreading Damdred? And as for Oats, is that what he did in cell? Just call two people mafia over and over again? Is that different from his town-play? | ||
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On September 25 2014 09:13 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Oats only called people mafia like once. While i've only played one game with oats, when he was mafia, i kind of forgot he was even in the game until later on. Ok so just general inactivity. Damdred hasn't taken anything into account, and i felt that he only posted his thoughts on DP in a way that he was trying to push a mislynch. In what way? You make a lot of these general statements but fail to explain them until I pull them out of you. It also seems super scummy that both players would talk about why one person would be scum in a qt. Why? What have you and geript talked about in your QT? | ||
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On September 25 2014 09:28 yamato77 wrote: well hapa, geript gave you what you wanted Hah. In a way yes. It's hard not to see his stuff as genuine. I liked this quite a bit: 5 Abuse/Hapa. Abuse has done nothing and honestly is a decent policy lynch. Hapa's been very towny and very scummy. I really don't in any way understand his thought process behind relying so heavily on tone reads. Learning how to do it, fine. Putting it into practice fine. Doing so while not equally making good pushes against people for logical reasons that actually carry weight... very bad. If there's a mafia/mafia pair in the vets, this is most likely it. I guess I have been talked out of it once more. | ||
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On September 25 2014 09:59 geript wrote: Yo Hapa, explain to me why you were so keen on Abuse not being shot or lynched as a test to your alignment? I'm not? I just don't think he's mafia. Do you have any reasons to think he's mafia? | ||
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On September 25 2014 10:13 geript wrote: lol I do find it a bit funny that we're both kinda just ignoring Vayne right now. Sort of. I just need to re-read. | ||
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I havent' seen a single person disagree with my case. | ||
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On September 25 2014 12:53 geript wrote: Look at Damdred specifically what I posted. I did and it's an interesting observation, but that's about it. It's plausible to talk with a null read about scum-reads. The QT is there... it's hard to ignore it unless you're super suspicious of your partner. Hell being on the same page isn't necessarily a bad thing. It would be one thing if he thought Oats was mafia. Oats null? I'm very unconvinced by the argument. At the very least, it's not stronger than the one on VE. | ||
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On September 25 2014 13:06 geript wrote: I disagree. The odds of VE/CR being a mafia/mafia pair is reasonably low. We both agree on that. Where's the double mafia pair then Hapa? Why care about the mafia pair? I care about my mafia reads. VE is by far my strongest. I have a good case on him, apparently everyone thinks I have a good case on him, so lets lynch him. As for the mafia pair, I don't know. I'm re-reading. If I have an opinion worth posting, I'll post it. | ||
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That does not mean we shouldn't lynch someone who is mafia. | ||
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On September 25 2014 13:19 geript wrote: Then let's lynch Oats or Damdred. If VE flips town and if CR doesn't martyr, then town is in a really shitty position. You are making statements about risk that do not make sense. How is it a "shitty" position, as opposed to a slightly less optimal one? | ||
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On September 25 2014 13:23 geript wrote: Because then we're almost priced into lynching CR because he's likely poisoner or arsonist. What in the hell are you talking about? | ||
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Hapahauli
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Hell why doesn't your agument apply to situations not involving killing VE? You're basically laying the groundwork for lynching CR Day 2 i fhe doesn't use his power regardless of who we lynch on Day 1. | ||
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On September 25 2014 13:28 geript wrote: CR has claimed 3p defender. If he does not martyr on N1 and VE flips town, then he is most likely the arsonist or poisoner. So if VE flips town, we almost have to autolynch him or shoot him to prevent him from being able to whittle down town for a joint victory with mafia. According to this: If VE flips town, we'd lynch CR if he doesn't use his power night one. How does that not apply to all other scenarios? If VE flips scum, we'd still want to lynch CR. IF we lynch someone other than VE, we'd STILL want to lynch an unconfirmed CR. So what on earth are you talking about? | ||
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We lynch VE. He flips whatever. CR will use his power, because the only way for him to lose the game is if we lynch him Day 2. We are not locked into 2 lynches. | ||
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On September 25 2014 13:41 geript wrote: Idk, the CR situation probably applies regardless of who is lynched. I just wish that you made me feel all super town about you and that Oats or Damdred would make me think they're actually town. No shit. I have to go to bed earlier than 6am tonight. Make your meta case on Damdred and I'll take a look tomorrow morning. | ||
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On September 26 2014 03:23 VisceraEyes wrote: I think I want to lynch my QT mate Chairman Ray. Like - I was giving him a pass because claim, but I've been like trying to exchange thoughts and ideas in our QT and there's just no reciprocation whatsoever. He's not playing the game in the QT, and he's not playing the game in the thread. He's not trying to with the game with town, frankly he's not trying to win the game as any alignment. I don't think he's playing like a third-party who turns into a town. So I want to lynch him because that's the role he's claimed. Any questions? ##Vote: Chairman Ray How can you make this post and have read the thread? It's a complete cop-out vote. Put your vote on someone that provides no impact, that everyone abandoned for today, and provides literally no useful information towards finding mafia. Regarding my meta case, DP did bring up a good point about him going after DP in "The Game." So that part of my meta case was wrong - didn't expect to have to go back 20 town games. Regardless, I do not believe town-VE is the type of player that's town-reading MM1 and Damdred so early into the game. That's very, very unlike any of his town games, including "the game." We need to start consolidating. The people voting Damdred and Oats still have not made a case on them and are doing some weird process of elimination thing, which is not an adequate reason to lynch someone. | ||
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On September 26 2014 03:40 Promethelax wrote: ... I'd like to hear from hapa why he thinks Abuse seems townie since he should have the best insight. I don't think abuse is mega town. I just don't have a reason to lynch him, and the only reason brought forth to lynch him is because he's a safe coinflip. | ||
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On September 25 2014 07:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Jesus I guess if I'm that scummy then where I'd look next are people who have townreads on me in spite of how I'm playing. Like, if I REALLY don't look town then people who are right about me might have too much information or something. Fuck Hapa, couldn't you have just been scum? VE stated in this thread that he believed people town-reading him could be suspicious. Instead of following this train of thought at all, he doesn't even attempt to find mafia and votes for CR. Lynch with fire. Seriously. | ||
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On September 26 2014 04:57 Damdred wrote: @Hapa VEs lack of being present at this point in the day is worrying, or at least sticking around. After the VE flip where would you go if we lynched him? And what do you think of MM? I'm strongly reading geript as town, which makes me not-so-want-to-lynch-MM. MM's behavior is... meh. It's bad, but I'm not sure if it's lynchbait bad or mafia bad. In other words, I'd rather have this conversation after we know what VE flips. | ||
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On September 26 2014 05:09 geript wrote: Here's something to look at. Both Prome and I agreed on it. Yeah I read that game too. But making a meta tell of a person based on 1 game is... not good. | ||
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On September 26 2014 03:09 Promethelax wrote: Can people who have played with abuse before tell me if he is usually this wishy washy? This entire post is just an attempt to push the lynch away from himself and onto anywhere else it could stick without actually scum hunting or attempting to find the correct target. DP and Vayne have been been garnering attention up to this point but abuse doesn't say that he thinks either one is scum. Instead he wants geript to call them scum and stop calling him/hapa scum. If I had to pick a single post to lynch someone over I would call this the most lynch worthy post thus far in the game. You mean this? It seems like a pretty typical newbie post, no? Plus he's very consistently suspicious of Vayne in my conversations with him in the QT, so I think that post looks better to me. Perhaps unsatisfying to you guys, but w/e. I really don't want to get into the mindset of forcing myself to defend abuse, because my reasons for not wanting to lynch him are more along the lines of "how could everyone see VE's vote on CR and not want to lynch him with fire?" | ||
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On September 26 2014 06:25 VisceraEyes wrote: This is false. I read the thread, but I'm getting pissed about CR. He's literally not doing anything in the thread OR the QT. I was suspicious of him when he made the claim and now I'm REALLY suspicious. It's not a shit vote, maybe you can tell me why CR is town/3p instead of mafia? Do you think a mafia would come in the thread, talk about 3rd parties, instantly make a claim that could be cc'd when only 3-4 people have posted, then literally do nothing all game? Also, people aren't lynching CR because we will verify his claim tonight. If he doesn't martyr, we hang him tomorrow. Easy. On September 26 2014 06:25 VisceraEyes wrote: Like I have a better read on CR than anyone because I'm sharing a QT with him. And I'm saying I think he's mafia instead of 3p. You clearly don't have a better read on him, since... He's literally not doing anything in the thread OR the QT. Like - I was giving him a pass because claim, but I've been like trying to exchange thoughts and ideas in our QT and there's just no reciprocation whatsoever. He's not playing the game in the QT, and he's not playing the game in the thread. How can you have a better read on him if he's doing equally little in the thread and QT? | ||
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On September 26 2014 06:38 DarthPunk wrote: Wasn't the case like complete basedd on meta and I found a game that didn;t comply with that meta. What IS hapa's case exactly? Although VE, voting for CR after I negotiated with him is like the most WHAT THE FUCK?!?! thing ever. | ||
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See: Hero Mini Mafia for mafia VE doing this exact thing. | ||
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On September 26 2014 06:50 DarthPunk wrote: He is doing shit, when his lynch is basically inevitable. ALSO he is acting like town VE when people call him scum as town. See: Hero Mini Mafia for mafia VE doing this exact thing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/384953-hero-mini-mafia?user=VisceraEyes&page=5 Comes back 30 minutes before deadline, claims cop, proceeds to read-dump. | ||
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GG guys | ||
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Setup: On September 30 2014 06:07 Blazinghand wrote: Well, I figure since I approved the balance and people are complaining, I should listen to what they have to say so I do a better job next time. The setup wasn't as imbalanced as some people are suggesting. In a game where town lynches mafia on Day 1 though, the flaws of the setup are going to be far more amplified, especially to the players in the game. This for example... On September 29 2014 23:28 DarthPunk wrote: No YOU think about your game critically for two seconds please. There is no way in HELL this game was balanced for scum. I think Town wins 95% of the time. Without question. ... is just overly dramatic. That being said, there are definitely some balance problems. 4 town power-roles vs. 2 mafia power roles starts to skew the game to pro-town, no matter how the pairs are drawn up (i.e. having a godfather and a cop in a mini is standard balance). The problem is that some snow-ball mechanics for town were thrown on top of this. The pair-system especially made this tough. If a mafia dies within the first two days, it is a catastrophe for the mafia team. If the solo-mafia dies, a situation is created where every flip doubles as a cop-check. If one of the pairing does, two mafia are probably dead. This problem was somewhat masked by CR's "fake-claim" this game (as he was going to get lynched D2 pretty much no matter what happened), but that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. I also thought the 3rd parties did not fit this game. I hate survivor roles in general, as "survival" is a pretty easy/boring win-con that does not require you to play the game seriously. I especially disliked that the arsonist was changed from a purely anti-town solo-win role to a survival win-con. I think it's better to have win-conditions that require someone to active participate and try to "figure-out" an aspect of the game. That being said, I did like the concept of the setup, and I think a few hot-fixes would make a 2nd game much more enjoyable: 1) Change how pairs are determined. A N0 where players can chose their partners would be pretty cool. Those who mutually choose each other are paired up, and those who do not are randomized. All-random pairs also work. 2) Re-work 3rd parties. No survivors. Something like a pair of Assassins, a Hitman, or some solo-win roles (classic SK/Arsonist) would work better in this setup (and would also fit flavor-wise quite well). 3) Less emphasis on power-roles. What makes this setup unique is the pairing system, and I think the roles detract from that. Town-Play: I think it was pretty lucky/fortunate that VE got lynched on Day 1. This town wasn't doing much productive on Day 1, and got mafia lynched by virtue of mafia having very little thread-presence and the only major case in the game being written on mafia. A lot of the problem was that a significant portion of town's time was spent thinking about "process of elimination" and "finding the mafia pair" as opposed to just finding mafia. On September 24 2014 15:52 Grackaroni wrote: I think I want to lynch Oatsmaster now. Yamato/Prom (kind of liking Yamato as town he actually seemed interested in getting discussion started this game) DP/Vayne (leaning town on both atm but I don't have much experience reading DP) Grack/Kush (Kush is actually a strong town read for me for the same reason as DP) Geript/MM1 (I think Geript has seemed really townie recently) CR/VE (CR claimed 3rd party) Hapa/abuse (Not as confident on hapa anymore but he's easy to read based on activity later in the game anyway) This post typifies how a lot of townies were approaching the game. And it's not a very good way of going about things. People were tunneled on Oats/Damdred for a good portion of Day 1 without so much as a case on either of them, made possible by this vague "process of elimination" thing. And this is so bad, because it encourages players to make bad town-reads, and is almost impossible to draw good information from. If you are Damdred in this game, how do you respond to something like this? If you are suspicious of him, what good information could you possibly divine from Damdred's response to something like this? Speaking of ill-justified town reads... On September 26 2014 05:17 Hapahauli wrote: You mean this? It seems like a pretty typical newbie post, no? Plus he's very consistently suspicious of Vayne in my conversations with him in the QT, so I think that post looks better to me. Perhaps unsatisfying to you guys, but w/e. I really don't want to get into the mindset of forcing myself to defend abuse, because my reasons for not wanting to lynch him are more along the lines of "how could everyone see VE's vote on CR and not want to lynch him with fire?" This is why they're so dangerous. With this and a string of posts before this defending abuse (even though my read was closer to null on him), I completely mentally checked out of critically reading abuse's posts. And you can watch me continue this delusion into the Obs QT: my analysis was very focused on finding bus-votes on VE, yet I was completely skipping reading abuse's votes for no logical reason beyond my own bias. I quote my own example here, but there are many others this game. The rest of the game was straightforward. CR's roleclaim basically guaranteed his lynch on Day 2, geript track claim or not (although that was a pretty sick play). Abuse gave up in the face of difficult odds (and probably insurmountable odds since he was doused). Mafia Play: Mafia just lacked the thread-presence to do anything. CR literally didn't push anything (not sure if I can blame him after rolling scum 9 times in a row) and abuse played solid yet not-so-active. If either of them coordinate their activities better with their mafia partners (i.e. push early on to discredit me), i think the early-game looks very different. As for VE... On September 30 2014 01:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah, I don't think I played poorly at all, Haru can suck a D. It's true that I died D1, but I took the cop with me and left town in SHAMBLES with my association play. e: Like the only reason I was even caught was on outdated meta that everyone just happened to believe. Get outta here. ... this just isn't a very self-critical way of looking at one's play. If you get lynched Day 1 as any alignment, there's often a lot to improve on. I don't want to single out VE, but I think his play is pretty instructive to break down from a mafia perspective. His filter was actually OK for the most part, yet he got lynched Day 1. Why does this happen and what can we learn from it? VE started the game coming out swinging, and while Yamato and I were suspicious of him, this isn't really a big deal in the context of the game. What got VE ultimately killed was his inability to keep this up. This town was not super active or opinionated, and in a town like this, it is extremely important to keep up thread presence in the latter portion of the day. This is because a town without much direction is prone to lynch down the path of least resistance. And this is what ultimately doomed VE. Regardless of how valid people thought my meta case was, VE was an in-active no-show until far too late in the day. 10 votes were piled on him in a matter of hours. And to illustrate how important activity is, look at VE instantly convince DP and Kush that he was "town" 30 minutes left into the day. Had he done such a thing 1-2 hours before, his lynch would have been extraordinarily hard for me to push. Instead, he saved his burst of activity until it was far too late to change anything. | ||
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It was a beautiful day in early spring, and light reflecting off of melting patches of snow gave the scenery an unusual luster. Koshi gazed outside longingly. "It was a better world back then, when I was playing on TL," he grumbled, rocking back in his chair. "Those were real games! That was real balance! But these new hosts..." His mood turned sour as the sound of those words echoed across the room. He quickly closed the curtains in disgust, and wheeled his chair across the room. "Gosh darn it! If I was on the balance team, I'd do things right! We'd go back to the old ways, we'd--" He was interrupted by some footsteps down the hallway. "HE'S MAFIA! FUCK YOU ALL HE'S MAFIA!" an old woman screamed, running past his door. "Be careful Mrs. Rayn" a young man hollered, "Your husband passed away a long time ago, please Mrs. Rayn!" As the scampering subsided, Koshi found himself alone to his thoughts once more. "Wha... what was I saying? Oh right, I need some grape juice." | ||
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