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On June 17 2014 16:05 YouKnowZhou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 15:42 goodkarma wrote:
And the Artanis comment I suppose is an opinion, but one I'd argue doesn't really say much about his alignment.
you could argue that, but you would be wrong. Also, you want to unvote me, trust me. Just gimme a day and I'll fulfill all your wildest dreams good night sweet prince
Fine. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, unvote you, and honor this Day 1 truce thing we always seem to do.
##Unvote: YouKnowZhou
On June 17 2014 16:07 Snickers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:I almost forgot about this due to the world cup  The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid. They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this. I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:16 slOosh wrote:
Alright, let's cut it out with the "Kenpachi Rule" and associated nomenclature. It isn't immediately clear to everyone and is muddling up the discussion.
Let's get this straight.
Bunnies, you think YKZ is scum because of the phrase "limited information"? His post paraphrased as "I'm not listening to you because you are town"?
YKZ, you think bunnies is scum for her initial call out of your post "I'm vt"?
Please try to be a bit more clear with your posts please. Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play. So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments. I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read. On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you". I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time. Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy. I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others. I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him. Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow. ##vote 27ninjabunnies gk what is your read on mderg? I think its weird how he has only posted one thing. He sorta offers an excuse for that. The thing i find most weird is "I'll hopefully post more tomorrow". ..... I do not think somebody that is town would say hopefully i will post more after posting one post.
Both town and scum can be lazy. Not really much else to say here... If he makes a habit of making excuses then yes, it's a scummy thing.
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So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever.
Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here.
+ Show Spoiler +Why slOosh is Mafia Early on his play can be categorized as asking a lot of questions. A lot of questions. This is okay I guess, if you take his probing as a means to get reads on players. However, the problem I have is that all through his filter, ne'ry is there a read on anyone involved in the early game. He can be seen defending a couple of players...which I don't find to be particularly indicative either way, but it always seems to come with an out too so meh. Ultimately we've got: +- Asking a lot of early questions that don't seem to go anywhere. +- Defending players before they can defend themselves. - Never gives reads on players involved in early game, in spite of interacting with many of them through various questions. - In spite of posting a fair amount, doesn't feel town For now I want to hear what slOosh has to say before voting for him, but we'll call him my top scumread for the sake of argument.
As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.
##Vote: mderg
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VE, what do you think about the YKZ/Bunnies issue?
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On June 17 2014 05:45 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Chezinu,
A bruised man visits the doctor. He tells the doctor that he saw the sheriff on a long stretch of road just outside of town. The sheriff was approached by two shadowed figures, a small figure and a large figure. The tall figure had its face obscured by a dark cap. The small figure was deformed, a scar running from the left side of his mouth. The rest of their figures obscured by the eclipsing sun. The man mentioned seeing a package delivered to the sheriff from these two gentlemen, whom then spotted him. He ran away as fast as he could as gunfire followed him. He fell on his face from a branch, then hid in the bushes. He overheard the two talking after they gave up their search. "It doesn't matter anyway. Operation Hyrule can no longer be stopped."
Are you familiar with the codeword Hyrule? What does it mean? Hmm, There must be a Link. He typically throws bombs when he is faced with creatures from other worlds. Given the circumstances, it may be a shotgun. These two men must have guns... When did they visit the sheriff? We must run the counter operation, Adlez
Adlez? Chezinu, no.. The consequences will be dire..
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Also
##Unvote
Release has made non wordy posts. This pleases the Artanis.
VE, I'm disappointed you stopped viewing me as townie . I thought we were friends. I don't think slOosh is scum though.
I don't like voting mderg as much because he gave a piece of reasoning that resonated with me and something I thought about as well.
It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you".
On June 17 2014 15:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
itt BH appeals to authority while smurfing. And he ISN'T the leading lynch yet?
Why aren't you voting BH if this is your position?
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On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever. Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here. + Show Spoiler +Why slOosh is Mafia Early on his play can be categorized as asking a lot of questions. A lot of questions. This is okay I guess, if you take his probing as a means to get reads on players. However, the problem I have is that all through his filter, ne'ry is there a read on anyone involved in the early game. He can be seen defending a couple of players...which I don't find to be particularly indicative either way, but it always seems to come with an out too so meh. Ultimately we've got: +- Asking a lot of early questions that don't seem to go anywhere. +- Defending players before they can defend themselves. - Never gives reads on players involved in early game, in spite of interacting with many of them through various questions. - In spite of posting a fair amount, doesn't feel town For now I want to hear what slOosh has to say before voting for him, but we'll call him my top scumread for the sake of argument. As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.##Vote: mderg
That´s some solid reasoning there. At least be specific in some way. Right now your case on me is basically that my post feels kinda scummy.
Also I can assure you that it´s not all you get from me this cycle. "You may theoretically not post any more in this cycle, so I´m fine lynching you". Like you´re not even interested in my play and just want me lynched for starting the game a bit late.
Overall a really lazy vote on me without much to back it up.
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On June 17 2014 20:42 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever. Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here. + Show Spoiler +Why slOosh is Mafia Early on his play can be categorized as asking a lot of questions. A lot of questions. This is okay I guess, if you take his probing as a means to get reads on players. However, the problem I have is that all through his filter, ne'ry is there a read on anyone involved in the early game. He can be seen defending a couple of players...which I don't find to be particularly indicative either way, but it always seems to come with an out too so meh. Ultimately we've got: +- Asking a lot of early questions that don't seem to go anywhere. +- Defending players before they can defend themselves. - Never gives reads on players involved in early game, in spite of interacting with many of them through various questions. - In spite of posting a fair amount, doesn't feel town For now I want to hear what slOosh has to say before voting for him, but we'll call him my top scumread for the sake of argument. As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.##Vote: mderg That´s some solid reasoning there. At least be specific in some way. Right now your case on me is basically that my post feels kinda scummy. Also I can assure you that it´s not all you get from me this cycle. "You may theoretically not post any more in this cycle, so I´m fine lynching you". Like you´re not even interested in my play and just want me lynched for starting the game a bit late. Overall a really lazy vote on me without much to back it up.
Wait a minute. If his case on you is that your posts feel kinda scummy then it makes perfect sense. If you agree with his reasoning, however, is another story.
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On June 17 2014 21:23 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 20:42 mderg wrote:On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever. Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here. + Show Spoiler +Why slOosh is Mafia Early on his play can be categorized as asking a lot of questions. A lot of questions. This is okay I guess, if you take his probing as a means to get reads on players. However, the problem I have is that all through his filter, ne'ry is there a read on anyone involved in the early game. He can be seen defending a couple of players...which I don't find to be particularly indicative either way, but it always seems to come with an out too so meh. Ultimately we've got: +- Asking a lot of early questions that don't seem to go anywhere. +- Defending players before they can defend themselves. - Never gives reads on players involved in early game, in spite of interacting with many of them through various questions. - In spite of posting a fair amount, doesn't feel town For now I want to hear what slOosh has to say before voting for him, but we'll call him my top scumread for the sake of argument. As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.##Vote: mderg That´s some solid reasoning there. At least be specific in some way. Right now your case on me is basically that my post feels kinda scummy. Also I can assure you that it´s not all you get from me this cycle. "You may theoretically not post any more in this cycle, so I´m fine lynching you". Like you´re not even interested in my play and just want me lynched for starting the game a bit late. Overall a really lazy vote on me without much to back it up. Wait a minute. If his case on you is that your posts feel kinda scummy then it makes perfect sense. If you agree with his reasoning, however, is another story.
It would make sense to read someone as scum, if his posts feel scummy. But that´s not why you vote someone. The case sucks because it´s highly subjective and has no real substance.
I think making a case just based on a post feeling scummy is terrible.
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On June 17 2014 21:42 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 21:23 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 20:42 mderg wrote:On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever. Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here. + Show Spoiler +Why slOosh is Mafia Early on his play can be categorized as asking a lot of questions. A lot of questions. This is okay I guess, if you take his probing as a means to get reads on players. However, the problem I have is that all through his filter, ne'ry is there a read on anyone involved in the early game. He can be seen defending a couple of players...which I don't find to be particularly indicative either way, but it always seems to come with an out too so meh. Ultimately we've got: +- Asking a lot of early questions that don't seem to go anywhere. +- Defending players before they can defend themselves. - Never gives reads on players involved in early game, in spite of interacting with many of them through various questions. - In spite of posting a fair amount, doesn't feel town For now I want to hear what slOosh has to say before voting for him, but we'll call him my top scumread for the sake of argument. As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.##Vote: mderg That´s some solid reasoning there. At least be specific in some way. Right now your case on me is basically that my post feels kinda scummy. Also I can assure you that it´s not all you get from me this cycle. "You may theoretically not post any more in this cycle, so I´m fine lynching you". Like you´re not even interested in my play and just want me lynched for starting the game a bit late. Overall a really lazy vote on me without much to back it up. Wait a minute. If his case on you is that your posts feel kinda scummy then it makes perfect sense. If you agree with his reasoning, however, is another story. It would make sense to read someone as scum, if his posts feel scummy. But that´s not why you vote someone. The case sucks because it´s highly subjective and has no real substance. I think making a case just based on a post feeling scummy is terrible.
It is worth mentioning that a vote on you up until you suddenly came to life was a lurker vote. Like magic, a vote is cast on you and you come alive not to pursue any of your reads, but to defend yourself.
Would you mind clarifying your read on Release? This is the point you're most wishy-washy about in your opening post. Like apparently unflipped people piling on him gives you townie vibes, while a virtually nonexistent case made by Artansis makes you think he's looking scummy? And said nonexistent case is stronger than sloosh's case? Please do explain.
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That's exactly what I thought too, goodkarma.
Meanwhile, Bunnies is posting alot and while I'm still suspicious of him I'd rather kill Mderg. More details when I get home in a few hours.
##Unvote
##Vote: Mderg
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Mderg, I ctrl-F'd your filter on "?" and got zero results. Why are you not asking anyone any questions?
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On June 17 2014 03:32 27ninjabunnies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 03:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 03:16 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 01:42 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release Boring, why so? And I know I'm town, so you think Release is more likely scum defending a town here? Or do you think it's scum defending a partner this early into the game? I'm thinking we're both town here. Though, i agree, he is basically just sayng everything I've already said. Boring because you both just kept repeating the same things but in different words and it wasn't going anywhere for me to get a read on either of you. I don't know your alignment and I'm not going to make an association between unflipped players. People did that in cell. You supported that as mafia. Why are you trying to create associations now? On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. This gives me a slight scumread on you. Wanting to be right is an easy reason to lean back on without actually saying anything. On June 17 2014 02:38 Release wrote:
Currently this is our only point of discussion, although your vote on me now introduces a discussion about me.
wordy words Boring. You could've introduced a discussion about anyone that had an opinion on the case for bullshit reasons. You also keep repeating yourself in the post as well. If you want me to actually read your posts thoroughly, be more to the point. I'm not interested in your description of what you provided and what you want. It won't help me get a more accurate read on you. On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. Understandable, which is why I'm trying to move conversation from YKZ and Is fighting elsewhere to get more reads. People did that in cell badly, and I used it to my advantage as mafia. I still think using associations as town is helpful. Plus I'm getting reads based off what I'm writing and how people question my theories. It's quite interesting. I think you are town. I want to be right on YKZ, but I know in a game of mafia, I could be wrong. I don't see how this makes me scummy for wanting to be right on a top scumread? Why do you think using associations between unflipped players is helpful in the current situation? Why do you think I'm town? Do you have any current scumreads other than YKZ? It's scummy because it's something to fall back on. If your arguments fall apart it gives you a reason to continue pushing him, or when the heat returns on him after it disappears you can easily go after him again. It gives you an opening. On June 17 2014 03:17 slOosh wrote:On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 17 2014 02:38 slOosh wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I'm sorry, how is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He hasn't rehashed anything, it's original content and wordiness is alignment null. Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that. How is Release the perpetrator if it started as a spat between YKZ and 27nb? He's the perpetrator of the conversation continuing about that specific topic. You are town because you seem t be trying to figure things outside of ykz and me, rather than just jumping on a bw lynch of one of us. I like this.
Still needed to respond to this.
Do you think scum Artanis would have much trouble making a comment like that? Is there more that makes you read me as town?
Also, if I notice associations now, after the flip, the associations become more clear. It's how I've always played the game. I notice connections before flip. It's something we do in video mafia, especially since usually in video mafia, you have no flips. You have to base everything solely on reads and connections.
It might be something you do in video mafia, but we're playing forum mafia here. You've played a few games on forum mafia now so you should be aware that unflipped associations in forum mafia is bad. I can't tell if it's just a bad habit or intentionally muddying up the waters though, so I'm not going to make a point of it. When there's been no flips associations will just mess up your thought process.
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@Release:
You've been in a corner there chugging away at YKZ case-making. Anyone else you have on your list of scum suspects?
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On June 17 2014 22:37 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 21:42 mderg wrote:On June 17 2014 21:23 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 20:42 mderg wrote:On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever. Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here. + Show Spoiler +Why slOosh is Mafia Early on his play can be categorized as asking a lot of questions. A lot of questions. This is okay I guess, if you take his probing as a means to get reads on players. However, the problem I have is that all through his filter, ne'ry is there a read on anyone involved in the early game. He can be seen defending a couple of players...which I don't find to be particularly indicative either way, but it always seems to come with an out too so meh. Ultimately we've got: +- Asking a lot of early questions that don't seem to go anywhere. +- Defending players before they can defend themselves. - Never gives reads on players involved in early game, in spite of interacting with many of them through various questions. - In spite of posting a fair amount, doesn't feel town For now I want to hear what slOosh has to say before voting for him, but we'll call him my top scumread for the sake of argument. As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.##Vote: mderg That´s some solid reasoning there. At least be specific in some way. Right now your case on me is basically that my post feels kinda scummy. Also I can assure you that it´s not all you get from me this cycle. "You may theoretically not post any more in this cycle, so I´m fine lynching you". Like you´re not even interested in my play and just want me lynched for starting the game a bit late. Overall a really lazy vote on me without much to back it up. Wait a minute. If his case on you is that your posts feel kinda scummy then it makes perfect sense. If you agree with his reasoning, however, is another story. It would make sense to read someone as scum, if his posts feel scummy. But that´s not why you vote someone. The case sucks because it´s highly subjective and has no real substance. I think making a case just based on a post feeling scummy is terrible. It is worth mentioning that a vote on you up until you suddenly came to life was a lurker vote. Like magic, a vote is cast on you and you come alive not to pursue any of your reads, but to defend yourself. Would you mind clarifying your read on Release? This is the point you're most wishy-washy about in your opening post. Like apparently unflipped people piling on him gives you townie vibes, while a virtually nonexistent case made by Artansis makes you think he's looking scummy? And said nonexistent case is stronger than sloosh's case? Please do explain.
I don´t really understand your first point. My coming alive has nothing to do with the vote on me. Why wouldn´t I defend myself against a terrible vote, though?
How is my read on release not clear? He is slightly scummy to me. What gives me some townie vibes is the timing of people piling on him. Instantly after the case without really reasoning much themselves. Also the case by Artanis is not nonexistent. It´s clear that Release´s focus on the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies was strange because there was not actually much in there. So the huge ass posts that give no additional reason other than YKZ is trying to confuse town seem scummy.
I don´t think sloosh´s case on Artanis is very strong, like the part about ignoring YKZ and bunnies when it´s difficult to get a scumread on either of them, they´re difficult to figure out with their repetitive arguing against each other. His reasons make sense but theres nothing that clearly points scum to me.
On June 17 2014 23:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mderg, I ctrl-F'd your filter on "?" and got zero results. Why are you not asking anyone any questions?
Why did you even need to ctrl+f my filter for that?
I generally don´t ask that many direct questions, I rather point things out that I find strange and most of the time people respond to these things. So it should have about the same effect as asking questions.
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On June 17 2014 09:11 mderg wrote:I almost forgot about this due to the world cup The whole thing with YKZ and bunnies is really strange. It feels like they´re both wrong, bunnies more so thab YKZ, though. I don´t think bunnies case was well substantiated at all, scumslips just almost never happen in forum mafia. I also don´t think the Kenpachi rule is as foolproof as YKZ said. It has some solid reasoning behind it but claiming that it always works seems stupid. They´ve kinda been repeating themselves quite often, so there´s not that much to get from this. I think YKZ is town because of the follow up on bunnies Show nested quote +On June 16 2014 12:30 YouKnowZhou wrote:On June 16 2014 12:16 slOosh wrote:
Alright, let's cut it out with the "Kenpachi Rule" and associated nomenclature. It isn't immediately clear to everyone and is muddling up the discussion.
Let's get this straight.
Bunnies, you think YKZ is scum because of the phrase "limited information"? His post paraphrased as "I'm not listening to you because you are town"?
YKZ, you think bunnies is scum for her initial call out of your post "I'm vt"?
Please try to be a bit more clear with your posts please. Look at all the scummy stuff I've posted since my original post. Any real townie would be all over me for things like "I'm allowed to lie" and my blanatant lying etc but all YKZ is on is my OG post because he is scum. Any real townie would be all up on dis, think about it I don´t think scum would so blatantly say that he acted scummy and someone should have pointed it out. This feels like a trap made by town. He´s also claimed vt early on which I find weird but unlikely to be scum play. So I think out of bunnies and YKZ only bunnies can really be scum. It certainly is possible. Especially the heavy focus on YKZ´s "scumslip" seems suspicious. Not calling out YKZ´s scummy posts is not really alignment indicative. Not immediately noticing things that might look scummy to some can happen as both alignments. I also dislike how she agrees with Artanis that Release is scummy but doesn´t think he´s scum because she wants to be right about YKZ and her association read. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 01:45 27ninjabunnies wrote:On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:On June 16 2014 22:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release I kinda like this vote. And I kinda like Artanis' face. Release sounds a lot like he's trying to justify feeling the way he does rather than explaining honestly WHY he feels the way he does. Does anyone else think so? I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014: "As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies." And yet he ends this same post: "I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ." Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post. You have a point here I really like. Which makes me wonder if scum defending a town here. He's not even considering in what YKZ could or could not do. But then if that's the case, and Release is scum, then YKZ is town, and I don't like that. I really really want to be right that YKZ is scum. It also feels like townreading Artanis is some kind of "You´re scumreading me, so I´ll townread you". I think Snickers has been posting strangely. As if he wanted to play the newbie card without stating that he´s new. His general thought process doesn´t show a scum mindset, though. I didn´t really like where he talked about associations between bunnies and VKZ. IMO pre-flip associations are bad most of the time. Release had a not so perfect entrance to this thread. At first glance his case on YKZ seemed good but it basically comes down to the few points bunnies has made on YKZ and that he stuck to the Kenpachi rule for so long. That´s not very much considering the length of his posts. What kinda speaks in his favor is how suddenly several people jumped on him after Artanis made his case on him. Still kinda neutral on him, maybe a bit scummy.I´m having a townread on sloosh right now. Mainly because his posting feels different from Detention where we were scum together. He´s asking questions and seems to be trying to get behind the reasons from the others. I think Artanis´case on Release made sense but slooshs case on him also made sense even though it´s not that strong. The fact that he almost completely ignored the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies is slightly suspicious. But it´s true that the back and forth was repetitive and I don´t think there was anything that´s really scummy in it. I agree with his reason for scumreading bunnies, it´s something I´m also sumreading her for. Slight townread on him. Not much on the others, yet. I´ll hopefully post more tomorrow.##vote 27ninjabunnies
Hey mderg can you explain the reasoning of the bold text.
I think you made a terrible excuse for not posting more on day one. You are back and forth on release. Also you say you hopefully will post more tomorrow. You also throw in a vote first post. Also I am pretty sure you were hoping no one would comment and you could just lurk until the lynch. Your vote would of been your saving grace for not having to speak today.
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Vote Count - Day 1:
YouKnowZhou (1): 27ninjabunnies, Release, goodkarma
27ninjabunnies (2): YouKnowZhou, Lazermonkey, mderg
Release (1): Artanis[Xp], Snickers
Artanis[Xp] (1): slOosh
mderg (2): VisceraEyes, Lazermonkey
Currently Not Voting (5): Chezinu, goodkarma, Oatsmaster, 27ninjabunnies, Artanis[Xp]
Currently 27ninjabunnies is set to be lynched with 2 votes! Day will end in
Remember: Voting is mandatory. You can find the spreadsheet to the game here.
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On June 18 2014 01:34 mderg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 22:37 goodkarma wrote:On June 17 2014 21:42 mderg wrote:On June 17 2014 21:23 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 17 2014 20:42 mderg wrote:On June 17 2014 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote:So I wrote this big post about why I think slOosh is mafia because he thinks Artanis is mafia, but then as I started picking apart slOosh's reasoning I find that I'm really not so strongly feeling townie on Artanis, and that slOosh's reasoning is as bad as it was at first glance. So I removed the bit about Artanis and frankly it's not nearly as impressive. I've included it in a spoiler because I'm still tentatively scummy on slOosh, but the crux of my argument is garbage and the rest can possibly be just me misreading slOosh's intention or whatever. Would probably vote for slOosh if he said nothing more today, but right now I'm looking elsewhere because I don't really find my case super convincing myself. I maintain that he doesn't /feel/ town to me, but concede that it's quite possible that I'm just wrong here. + Show Spoiler +Why slOosh is Mafia Early on his play can be categorized as asking a lot of questions. A lot of questions. This is okay I guess, if you take his probing as a means to get reads on players. However, the problem I have is that all through his filter, ne'ry is there a read on anyone involved in the early game. He can be seen defending a couple of players...which I don't find to be particularly indicative either way, but it always seems to come with an out too so meh. Ultimately we've got: +- Asking a lot of early questions that don't seem to go anywhere. +- Defending players before they can defend themselves. - Never gives reads on players involved in early game, in spite of interacting with many of them through various questions. - In spite of posting a fair amount, doesn't feel town For now I want to hear what slOosh has to say before voting for him, but we'll call him my top scumread for the sake of argument. As for other players, as always I absolutely refuse to read BH this cycle. Chez seems to be Chez, which means he'll be alive until we lynch him regardless of his alignment. I'd like to see where this Artanis/slOosh stuff goes. I'm now kinda townreading Release now that he's proven a proclivity toward verbosity in all matters. mgerg is more guilty of rehashing than Release ever was, and in a way I find to be far more scummy. I think based on his (presumably only) D1 post that he's my favorite lynch today. I find his entire post to be wishywashy and diplomatic and scummy, and considering it may be all we get from him this cycle I'm fine with lynching him.##Vote: mderg That´s some solid reasoning there. At least be specific in some way. Right now your case on me is basically that my post feels kinda scummy. Also I can assure you that it´s not all you get from me this cycle. "You may theoretically not post any more in this cycle, so I´m fine lynching you". Like you´re not even interested in my play and just want me lynched for starting the game a bit late. Overall a really lazy vote on me without much to back it up. Wait a minute. If his case on you is that your posts feel kinda scummy then it makes perfect sense. If you agree with his reasoning, however, is another story. It would make sense to read someone as scum, if his posts feel scummy. But that´s not why you vote someone. The case sucks because it´s highly subjective and has no real substance. I think making a case just based on a post feeling scummy is terrible. It is worth mentioning that a vote on you up until you suddenly came to life was a lurker vote. Like magic, a vote is cast on you and you come alive not to pursue any of your reads, but to defend yourself. Would you mind clarifying your read on Release? This is the point you're most wishy-washy about in your opening post. Like apparently unflipped people piling on him gives you townie vibes, while a virtually nonexistent case made by Artansis makes you think he's looking scummy? And said nonexistent case is stronger than sloosh's case? Please do explain. I don´t really understand your first point. My coming alive has nothing to do with the vote on me. Why wouldn´t I defend myself against a terrible vote, though? How is my read on release not clear? He is slightly scummy to me. What gives me some townie vibes is the timing of people piling on him. Instantly after the case without really reasoning much themselves. Also the case by Artanis is not nonexistent. It´s clear that Release´s focus on the back and forth between YKZ and bunnies was strange because there was not actually much in there. So the huge ass posts that give no additional reason other than YKZ is trying to confuse town seem scummy. I don´t think sloosh´s case on Artanis is very strong, like the part about ignoring YKZ and bunnies when it´s difficult to get a scumread on either of them, they´re difficult to figure out with their repetitive arguing against each other. His reasons make sense but theres nothing that clearly points scum to me. Show nested quote +On June 17 2014 23:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mderg, I ctrl-F'd your filter on "?" and got zero results. Why are you not asking anyone any questions? Why did you even need to ctrl+f my filter for that? I generally don´t ask that many direct questions, I rather point things out that I find strange and most of the time people respond to these things. So it should have about the same effect as asking questions.
Quick question about the bolded part: Explain to me (like if I was five) how that gives you a townie vibe?
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On June 18 2014 01:34 mderg wrote:
I generally don´t ask that many direct questions, I rather point things out that I find strange and most of the time people respond to these things. So it should have about the same effect as asking questions.
Just scrolled through your Cell Mini (Town) and [URL=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?user=mdergDetention (Mafia)[/URL] games. You actually asked a lot more questions as mafia. Interesting.
Carry on.
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On June 18 2014 02:13 OnceKing wrote:Vote Count - Day 1: YouKnowZhou (1): 27ninjabunnies, Release, goodkarma27ninjabunnies (2): YouKnowZhou, Lazermonkey, mderg Release (1): Artanis[Xp], Snickers Artanis[Xp] (1): slOosh mderg (2): VisceraEyes, mderg Currently Not Voting (5): Chezinu, goodkarma, Oatsmaster, 27ninjabunnies, Artanis[Xp]
Currently 27ninjabunnies is set to be lynched with 2 votes! Day will end in
Remember: Voting is mandatory. You can find the spreadsheet to the game here.
There is a mistake here. I am voting mderg, not mderg : D.
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On June 18 2014 02:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2014 01:34 mderg wrote:
I generally don´t ask that many direct questions, I rather point things out that I find strange and most of the time people respond to these things. So it should have about the same effect as asking questions. Just scrolled through your Cell Mini (Town) and Detention (Mafia) games. You actually asked a lot more questions as mafia. Interesting. Carry on.
EBWOP
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EPT
