World Heavyweight Championship Mafia II - Page 2

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=4#63

palmar makes the first "real" post of the game by asking about rayn's meta. further posts from palmar indicate that he's done his own research.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=4#73

I have no idea how to read people who open like this. Best just to ignore it unless gumshoe keeps talking about it.

So here ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=4#78 ) palmar asked what to me looks like a forced question, but his follow up of "getting a thread moving is hard" suggests that he knows he just asked a forced question, out of necessity to start discussion. I think Palmar is town so far.

Here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=5#81) rayn is setting a trap for gumshoe, trying to catch gumshoe based off of what rayn knows scum gum would do. I think that is townie and slightly difficult to fake as scum.

I like the way gumshoe is interacting with palmar. He doesn't seem scared or anything like that. Unfortunately this palmar/gum/rayn thing starts getting really boring and I'm not developing any reads off of what I'm reading. I think what is going on is that gumshoe and palmar are town, and gumshoe is not understanding that A) palmar's stuff is forced, but it's sorta forced on purpose so that he can start discussion and B) palmar's expectations of answers rayn might give are different that gumshoe's expectations of palmar's expectations of answers that rayn might give.

So far I think palmar/rayn and gumshoe are all town, and I'm the least sure about gumshoe because he's kinda hard to read. It might just be the way he talks.

Here's ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=6#101 ) marv's first real post of the game and I do not like. Does marv really expect that gumshoe must be voting for palmar this early based on what gumshoe has said? This question seems a little stupid for marv.

annnnnd palmar votes for gumshoe. this was unexpected. dunno what to think. marv comes in talking about this gum/palmar stuff and tbh it's a very annoying read, lots of arguing over "who thought who thought what" and it's hard to follow. so I'm gonna skim the rest of this "part" of the thread.

And here's (page 8/9) Robik! He's being an ass, he's acting like he's the shit, he's making early game reads based on nothing, and he's expecting everyone to take everything he says for granted. Seems like town robik to me.

Holyflare does something interesting. On page 9 he lays into robik, grilling robik over robik's town read on rayn. Every question that holyflare asks robik comes with the assumption that rayn does not deserve the town read that robik's giving him. So why hasn't holyflare discussed his read on rayn, if he doesn't think that rayn is townie? He's pointing out all these problems with rayn's play but he himself does not care about his percieved problems with rayn's play. Scum points.

Here ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=9#176 ) is what I'm talking about. After reading that post you would assume that hf has a scumread on rayn, but he doesn't mention it.

Robik says that hf's point against palmar (rayn's town claim) is bad. I agree, I also took rayn's post as a town claim. Interesting that holyflar did not (or couldn't) see it that way.

Annnd here's (page 10) rayn's game post. i don't want to read this section of the thread lol.

I'm reading all this stuff again and rayn's posts make a lot more sense than they did when I read them the first time.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=13#242

ehhhh fuck i really hate being buddied like this

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=13#251

this post is very different than how hf acted last game when he caught dp

Phagga comes into the thread at pg 13 and starts asking me questions. the questions seem alright i guess? I mean it looks like he is really trying to figure out what I'm talking about. I'm slightly town on phagga.

Oh, before I forget, holyflare accused robik of lying, but i haven't seen him say anything about his read on robik in awhile. I'll see how long it takes him to remember his robik scum-red.

It didn't take long ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=15#287 ) I'm kinda confused about what hf's reads are at this point. He hasn't retracted his scumread of robik but he's not really trying to develop that read. He's telling rayn that rayn is being hypocritical for attacking thrawn for something that rayn is also doing, does this mean holyflare thinks both rayn and thrawn are scummy? That seems like a werid position because hf had been buddying me up till this point, and I don't think that anyone can be reading the game and think that BOHT rayn and I could be mafia. HF makes other posts before the one I just linked that suspect hes thinks i might have done something fishy... but he's not really talking about his thrawn-read. All of it just seems weird, like hf is calling everyone and nobody mafia.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=17#337

So here's the "lie" I told? I have no idea what hf is talking about. There's no lie there. I voted rayn after asking rayn a question, therefore.... what? In the very post that hf quoted, i said "the initial reason I voted for him which I haven';t explained until now" which means that my actual reason for voting for rayn had nothing to do with anything I posted in the thread at the time i voted for rayn. The real, main reason I voted for rayn was because the game post felt extremely fake. All of it. It was too happy, or wierd, idk how to describe it. But it didn't feel right, it felt extremely forced and bad. The reason I eneded up unvoting rayn later on is that I remembered something that happened in the PM game. town rayn was trying to make a fake qt and I thought that the qt didn't look real, to me it was obvious that rayn was faking his posts. This is closer to how I felt after reading rayn's "game" post. It matched my memory of town rayn faking posts, which is understandble because when writing a "game" where people need to figure out if you're lying, you are naturually going to write in a way that makes it difficult for them to do so.

So it should be obvious to anyone who's read these notes that I am scumreading hf. The scumreads he decides to talk about seem to change with the whim of the thread, and his cases (against palmar and me) are bad.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=20#390

posts like these are what I don't understand about holyflare's play. He'll have a scumread on someone, then drop that scumread to take up another scumread, then agree with points that his scumread is making, and all these things seem to happen so that holyflare fits in well with the thread's current opinion.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=23#448

lol, prplhz. objectively it's a "scummy and useless" thing to say but tbh I town read him for posts like that. does mafia go "i don't have a single read so far"

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=23#453

marv let me know fi you still want answers to this. i don't really care to talk about any of that

also. GODDAMMIT MARV. i hate buddying. there's no reason for you to play nice with me.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=24#464

this reinforces my town read on rayn. it shows his thought process, like he's thinking about the game as a puzzle, which is how townies approach the game rather than scum who know alignments

(page 25) I have a hard time believing marv is serious about this palmar vote. palmar seems kinda townie to me so far. also, marv is refusing to talk to palmar and is not explaining why he thinks palmar is mafia. he's playing it off like he's above having to do those things, but he isn't and he should know that.

eh. but marv is just so casual about all of this. i dont know what to think about him atm.

Ok, around pages 27-29 my reads on holyflare, palmar, and marv have flip flopped several times, most of it being related to associative tells based on hf and marv pointing out some questionable things that palmar said. So my reads on all 3 of them have weakend (except marv really, i've never had a real read on him) but the reads are still the same.

I think i'm losing my townread on phagga. he asked some reasonable stuff at the beginning but he's barely around, and hardly around for very long. it's not very difficult for scum to only say smart things if they don't actually say very many things.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=30#591

lol, prplhz is still hilarious and I still think he's town. the only way he's mafia is if he's going for the "let's only do things and post things that everyone will think is too scummy to be scum" plan

gumshoe comes in around pages 32/33 and sorta defends me and i'm not sure how I feel about it. i think this ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=33#658 ) post might be the tipping point, the point where's he's defending me too hard. my problem with gum's position is that it doesn't seem like he's wondering if I could be mafia, he's only seeing things from town-thrawn's PoV. He should at least TRY to see if there is a scum thrawn PoV. sooo scum points for gumshoe

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/446774-world-heavyweight-championship-mafia-ii?page=34#662

then gumshoe caves in and starts scumreading me... was that all it took? he spent two pages defending me and suddenly he flips his read because of a meta statement from rayn that gumshow ust took for granted?