EPTHandslaps and Fisticuff: A PYP Mini [M][T]
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I feel like he is going to use this game as an excuse to ban as many people as he can. | ||
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Plan: Don't give LSB your role names 1. If you are first pick, grab Assassin 2. If you are not first pick, grab whatever you want. 3. Do NOT reveal your role, even if you are VT. + Show Spoiler + This is conditional, for example if someone gets day vigged and you tried to grab day vig but failed, by all means claim. If you viged a mafia, by all means brag in thread The assassin is the scariest role in mafia hands, day KP is always scary and the assassin has multiple uses. In addition it is pretty much unblockable. In addition there are (potentially) 5 roles with access to KP, it would be almost impossible to hold people accountable for missed shots. In addition we should try to keep the alignment cop alive as long as possible and the jailkeeper will also be super useful. | ||
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If you correctly guessed that player's role name, then that player will instantly be targeted with 1KP wihich will be processed as soon as the host receive the PM and you will be able to use this ability one additional time on the following cycle. The ability itself should present easy opportunities for use in any hands | ||
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On March 05 2014 13:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is the plan: First guy picks Universal Backup. At N1 start he outs all the roles that are not being picked. The second guy picks Vigilante. The third guy picks Day Vigilante The fourth guy picks Assassin The fifth guy picks roleblocker. Everyone else picks whatever. Best plan 2014, we gonna do it because the KP-roles are silent and this is a mini game. Anti town plan because 1) Universal Backup announcing all roles not being picked is probably the best way to help mafia blue snipe and fake claim. 2) Having multiple Kp roles all at the top of the list is very dangerous because mafia can share numbers and avoid clash. This is especially true in a mini game. 3) The roleblocker is important to stop dangerous KP from occurring. There is no other way for us to stop a rouge assassin/vig. Having the Roleblocker easily snipable just sets up for a mafia victory ##VOTE: Raynpelikoneet On March 05 2014 15:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Trust me, this is really easy. If assassin takes an unaccounted shot, day/night vigi shoots them because they claim mafia. Same goes vice versa. Every time we decide on a shot the roleblocker and jailer target each other so the shot is guaranteed to go through. If they don't, they claim mafia. That way we control all the non-mafia factional KP in the game which is far better than leave it up for a chance that mafia picks KP-roles and we are fucked. Because historically town has been able to control KP based roles? Unless it's super obvious (CPR doc), people are just gonna fire when they feel like it. | ||
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Pick phase determination and after pick phase determination are two completely different things. Calling for a mass claim after pick phase doesn't get you any crucial roles (which is important), calling for a picking order leads to ezpz blue snipes. Funny how you bumble in, get called out and try to resort to flame to seem townie | ||
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Your plan is giving the people at the top of the list get KP and leaving the roleblocker exposed, or proposing both roleblock roles target each other, letting the KP roles do what they want. Coincidentally mafia appear at the top of the list more often than town | ||
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On March 05 2014 15:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: LSB you are saying stuff that's fucking terrible. If you are town i need you to rethink what you are saying because the only way we can lose this game as town is if mafia gets too much KP and we don't know where it is / can't control it. So please read and think if you are town. Your idea of limiting mafia KP is to give them the KP roles and pray that they believe a divided town threat of 'policy lynching if you don't listen to us'? | ||
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On March 05 2014 15:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: I AM NOT GIVING THEM KP ROLES WTF ARE YOU SAYING!=?!=!=!= So your response to a fatal flaw in the plan is feigning ignorance? | ||
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I'll just post random thoughts here before I post my argument on rayn's plan which I'm still working on I already locked 2,1 before I went to sleep yesterday. So that isn't going to work in the first place, see you at the bottom of the list Rayn and Gumshoe. I guess that means unless Rayn chickened out that me and his own personal picks will be irrelevant as part of the plan. Artanis seems to be confirmed town to me considering he hasn't claimed mafia yet and he is actually trying. Dunno if his mafia behavior changed since last game. | ||
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What would I do if I was present with this plan? On March 05 2014 23:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: [/center]I hereby announce i will pick [2] [1] because my plan is foolproof. All you need to do as i stated: 1st pick (Palmar) picks day vigi 2nd pick (me) picks the Universal Backup 3rd pick picks night vigi 4th pick picks assassin 5th pick picks roleblocker 6th -> can pick whatever they want What i can guarantee you is:
In total this means we are playing a game where there are only vanilla mafiosi against town roles (which are mostly outed but whatevs). If something weird happens and i can't resolve it in reasonable time (resolving = mafia death) you can lynch me. If I was mafia, I would have supported Rayns plan because there is this great way to defeat it. Of course, now that people are aware the the JOAT could kill people too, we will need to adjust Rayn's Plan and account for that. But accepting rayn's plan at it's face value means that there are many easy ways to mess everything up. God help you rayn, god help you... in fact god help mafia lol Step 1: Pick JOAT JOAT has a KP. You shoot someone N1. Immediately you have this huge debate where the night vig claims that he didn't shoot someone, and everyone yelling "RAYNS Plan said all the KP was controlled!" This presents a threefold situation for the town 1) Night Vig is rouge and will shoot again next night 2) Universal Backup is rouge and grabbed a KP role 3) JOAT exists in one of the 7 other roles, which would be incredibly hard to figure out. Step 2: Hope to get mafia members in the KP roles (okay this should be step 0) It should be fairly simple to refuse to use KP on your scumbuddies. If you are directed by town to use KP. It becomes incredibly obvious such as a DT claiming, simply saying "i'm not going to shoot him because I think he is town" when he is mafia. And "I don't know about this, but I'll trust the town and shoot him" when he is town. If you aren't directed this would mean even more major things Universal Backup If it is available grab JOAT and shoot someone. Claim that JOAT was taken by someone else. Otherwise you can cover for your scumbuddies and help em fakeclaim. You have Night Vig Just shoot someone. This brings up the dilemma posted in step one. There is no way to differentiate between a Night Vig, JOAT, or Universal Backup (Picking JOAT) shot. In addition if one of the two mafia shots gets blocked, no one will suspect anything different. You are Day Vig Save your shot till LYLO and win, or till when you can kill someone who isn't mafia safely You are Assassin Kill someone right before the last hour of the day, preferably one of the kp roles that isn't mafia. Assuming there is no way to differentiate between an Assassin KP and a Day Vig KP, the town is probably going to ask the Day Vig and the Assassin to target each other. Proceed to mash the PM button and kill the Day Vig before you die. You just took out two town KP roles for your own lynch. And you'll still have your night kill. This is a great sacrifice. | ||
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If I was mafia I would have just shut up and followed rayns plan. After all I have this great way of attack. It's such a great plan for mafia and it would cause a ton of confusion for the town. Of course, now that I pointed out JOAT people will account for that and say "we'll just add JOAT to the plan". No shit, that's cause I pointed it out. This is why rayns plan is bad, if you make any changes it is not longer the plan I am saying is a horribly mafia favored plan. | ||
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On March 06 2014 09:46 Hopeless1der wrote: You are Assassin you cant activate kp roles in the last 12 hours LSB Okay that was a typo. You use your ability 11:59 before deadline. Day vig won't be able to respond | ||
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Roleblock isn't notified? What's going to stop mafia from shooting someone? | ||
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On March 06 2014 10:01 marvellosity wrote: the problem is, LSB, rayn is not mafia. I'm all for policy lynching people for anti-town plans, or not following their own plans. This from personal experience of getting away with awesome mafia plans. Meh I'm fine with that if you can attest that Rayn is capable of pushing a flawed plan as town. I can understand a townie thinking his plan is all right. After all my read of rayn is simply just a policy lynch of bad plan = mafia. | ||
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However if it isn't clear, following rayns plan is a horrible idea http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445063-handslaps-and-fisticuff-a-pyp-mini?page=39#773, honestly letting people take what they want is not a bad idea. | ||
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On March 06 2014 13:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: The thing is i literally offered to get lynched if something goes south in my plan so LSB needs to explain why he does not want to out mafia!rayn. Also gumshoe needs to do the same thing. How does that confirm you as town? This is a lose lose situation. If you are town and things go south, you get lynch, worse things happen If you are mafia and things go south, well you just pass a increadibly mafia favored plan so you guys are probably going to win anyways | ||
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I'm all for Austinmcc, mainly off of this. On March 06 2014 10:07 austinmcc wrote: Seems like everyone has chosen a nemesis this game. Hopeless and prpl had their bit. yamato and marv i guess we'll let rayn and LSB square off gumshoe and artanis? OATSMASTER I CHALLENGE YOU TO BE MY NEMESIS. ALSO, WHY AM I RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING? Tying peoples alignment together is pretty bad. I also don't like hoplessder, he has been sheeping rayn so hard | ||
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On March 06 2014 15:46 Oatsmaster wrote: how in the world is the plan incredibly mafia favored? What are you going to do if a mafia JOAT shoots night 1? Cry in the corner? | ||
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JOAT claims town. Who do you lynch? One of the townies or the Vig? Same thing. What if the Vig shoots someone? Could be a joat, everyone mass claims. Why do you lynch? The Vig the JOAT, or possibly even the universal backup? And that's just one of the many ways for mafia to turn this debacle into a clusterfuck http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445063-handslaps-and-fisticuff-a-pyp-mini?page=39#773 | ||
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On March 06 2014 16:00 Oatsmaster wrote: What? Roleblockers block vig and night vig so if there are 2 deaths its obviously the JOAT. dude wtf. And how does the roleblocker know that he isn't roleblocked? Or how do we know that the roleblocker/night vig aren't cahoots? | ||
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Mafia either need to get the joat, or grab one of the roles up top to cause some serious shit to happen. | ||
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Well, let's hope mafia don't understand why the information is beautiful plan is so mafia favored. I already locked in JOAT rayn, so if you actually want to follow hopless's plan you'd be best to take doc assuming yamato gets lynched. I'll go back and do reads now. | ||
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Gumshoe - although wishy washy, I totes understand the point "How about lets not let people who propose plans take highly abusable roles?". Especially since it seemed like town would follow the plan, it would be a bad idea to sacrifice yourself to send yourself down the list. I'm gonna read him as town. Hopleless1der - Has done nothing but sheep, has very little original thought, just setup talk. I have no idea what is going on this game, but compared to his last game in Shadowed, there is a huge discrepancy. Marv- Is this what town marv would say? On March 06 2014 20:27 marvellosity wrote: so no-one talked to me about things i should be choosing between :< Most the rest of his filter seems fine. | ||
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On March 07 2014 04:31 Palmar wrote: Hi lsb! Hi Palmar, Insane 3 will be epic assuming it will ever get hosted, maybe I should just do merc mafia instead | ||
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On March 07 2014 04:44 Palmar wrote: Merc mini was a lot of fun even if it was a bit of a steamroll, it's a fun setup  Apparently I can't balance PM games D:. I'm already on the quene so I can't add another game unless I can convince enough people to play an invite game. | ||
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On March 07 2014 04:49 Palmar wrote: In fact I totally read myself as town this game now even after that shaky start, mostly because of my carefree attitude and how I've aligned myself with a certain group of players, yet still I'm trolling them and making no attempt at getting them to like me too much. There is more to town play than simply confirming yourself as town | ||
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On March 07 2014 04:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Actually I disagree with that. If all townies confirmed themselves as town you win the game. The unfortunate part is that Palmar hasn't done that at all. Coag confirmed for best mafia player NA | ||
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![[image loading]](http://www.shirtofun.com/image/cache/data/NINJA_rect-500x500.jpg) | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + I promise not to shoot anyone night one + Show Spoiler + In class, will be back later today | ||
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1) I can check Xata and we can do a confirmed town sausage fest where everyone dances around Xata's Reads 2) Everyone is forced to shoot each other, and I check gumshoe. Lots of blood | ||
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On March 08 2014 06:06 LSB wrote: So I can see two ways to end this game 1) I can check Xata and we can do a confirmed town sausage fest where everyone dances around Xata's Reads 2) Everyone is forced to shoot each other, and I check gumshoe. Lots of blood EBWOP | ||
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Xata is checking me right? If I check xata and Hopeless1der shoots gumshoe Day 2 (Minus one person unless rayn/artanis snipes well) 1. raynpelikoneet - medic 2. LSB - joat 3. Xatalos - dt 4. marvellosity - rb 5.Palmar - ass 6. Artanis[Xp] - jk 7. gumshoe - vet 8. Hopeless1der - vigi 9. prplhz - day vigi Prplhz kills Gumshoe, after that Palmar kills prplhz, we lynch palmar. If we haven't won yet this leaves us with Night 2 (Minus one person unless rayn/artanis snipes well) 1. raynpelikoneet - medic 2. LSB - joat 3. Xatalos - dt 4. marvellosity - rb 5. Artanis[Xp] - jk 6. Hopeless1der - vigi I then shoot Hopeless1der | ||
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On March 08 2014 06:13 LSB wrote: Personal Notes Xata is checking me right? If I check xata and Hopeless1der shoots gumshoe Day 2 (Minus one person unless rayn/artanis snipes well) 1. raynpelikoneet - medic 2. LSB - joat 3. Xatalos - dt 4. marvellosity - rb 5.Palmar - ass 6. Artanis[Xp] - jk 7. gumshoe - vet 8. Hopeless1der - vigi 9. prplhz - day vigi 10. Oatsmaster - Normal Prplhz kills Gumshoe, after that Palmar kills prplhz, we lynch palmar. If we haven't won yet this leaves us with Night 2 (Minus one person unless rayn/artanis snipes well) 1. raynpelikoneet - medic 2. LSB - joat 3. Xatalos - dt 4. marvellosity - rb 5. Artanis[Xp] - jk 6. Hopeless1der - vigi 7. Oatsmaster I then shoot Hopeless1der and Hopless1der shoots Oatsmaster | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5NFWcOZ.png) | ||
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The first KP used against you is absorbed (this works against factional KP). You will be notified once this ability has been used. As this is a passive ability, this ability is immune to being roleblocked and requires no host PM notification. You still automatically die if you are lynched. | ||
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1. 2. LSB - joat 3. Xatalos - dt 4. 5.Palmar - ass 6. Artanis[Xp] - jk 7. gumshoe - vet 8. Hopeless1der - vigi 9. prplhz - day vigi 10. Oatsmaster - VT Night 1: What happened I checked Xata- Green Xata Checks me - Green Artanis Jails Marv Marv Roleblocks Artanis Roleblock takes precedence, marv dies Hopleless1der shoots Marv Mafia kills rayn The end | ||
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On March 08 2014 14:32 Oatsmaster wrote: why in the world does marv roleblock artanis. Cause the plan revolves around letting night actions resolve? Who else would he roleblock? You? | ||
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1) The hosts lied about mafia KP 2) The hosts lied about mafia numbers 3) The hosts fucked up 4) Someone hacked into Geript's account and made random posts | ||
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On March 08 2014 14:51 Hopeless1der wrote: Denied. Now where the hell is gumshoe. I'm going to sleep now. If he hasn't posted by the time I'm back,heads will roll. Vet's not notified. Just give up already this is boring | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + If I was not bus driver, that means I would have had to personally shoot marv. This means that hopless/prp's KP would go through and killed gumshoe Honestly I find this "there is a busdriver in the game" to be ridiculous. If we assume there is no bus driver, there is only one explanation for what could have happened prplhz is mafia and shot Marv Prplhz probably told Geript that he was going to shoot Marv as soon as possible once the day starts, and Geript incorporated it into the day post. Day 2 arrives, Prplhz announces he used his gun. Oatsmaster was concerned about the fact that marv should have been jailkept. This solves the issue as jail-keeper does not prevent Day Vig. This is the only plausible explanation unless you want to accept the fact that there is a bus driver. And I happen to be the busdriver. | ||
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The problem here lies if we do jump around green reads, if there actually is a bus driver we have no way of knowing whether or not the green reads is accurate. This can be solved if we just assume that the bus driver can't bus himself. Although Artanis hasn't been checked, he has pretty much claimed town since day one so I'm going to put him as confirmed town So we need to verify this list prplhz Palmar LSB Gumshoe Gumshoe seems oftly resilient to KP so I would not feel secure trying to shoot him. I would then shoot prplhz next night. The only thing we have to watch out for is if Gumshoe actually gets modkilled. That would mean we could switch our lynch to someone else. I could also med protect Xata if needed. I don't really see how you think Palmar is confirmed town either. | ||
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On March 09 2014 11:18 Artanis[Xp] wrote: LSB, can you confirm that you can shoot prplhz tonight? ya | ||
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That means Gumshoe is town. This is assuming bus drivers can't bus themselves. This also means directed Kp is horrible. I will not say who I will shoot if I survive the lynch because that would be a pretty bad idea. This leaves us needing to verify Palmar LSB Prphz Of which I am the only one at this point who has the ability to verify one of the others. I am also the only one at this stage that might be able to keep Xata alive this night. All I can say is that it is a huge gamble lynching me The whole entire "Palmar can't have two abilities" argument is so bullshit really. You are willing to accept Gumshoe having 3 abilities but not palmar having two? I'm going to assume that the mafia role PM tells you if you are "Goon, GF, or Roleblocker" and then you can select an additional ability off of that. | ||
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On March 10 2014 07:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Please stop making terrible assumptions. You saw Austinmcc's role right? It doesn't suggest that either you are correct or I am correct, it implies either explanation is likely | ||
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On March 10 2014 07:52 Xatalos wrote: Hmm, dunno why scum LSB would claim that gumshoe is town though. It's the only realistic other option for today :/ Who would you propose then LSB? Lynching prphz or Palmar. | ||
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On March 10 2014 07:56 Xatalos wrote: Dunno. This game seems to hardly make any sense. I guess there's something huge we're missing... But I somehow can't picture how gumshoe could be scum with his Veteran role. What's wrong with my explanation? It only relies on there being a bus drive ability in the game. | ||
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On March 10 2014 08:06 Xatalos wrote: LSB, what do you think of lynching gumshoe? Horrible idea, gumshoe is confirmed town in my explanation. That's what I'm hoping to make clear to you guys at least | ||
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On March 10 2014 08:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: True: I jailed Marvellosity. True: RBer takes precedence over jailing. Likely: Marvellosity RBed Gumshoe. Plausible: The person that Marv visited killed him Plausible: A scum veteran role could turn into a PGO-like role as it makes sense for the flavour of the role Why is Gumshoe confirmed town again? If Gumshoe is PGO why didn't hoplelessder die last night? | ||
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On March 10 2014 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Perhaps only the first person that visits him dies. It makes sense as Marv's action takes precedence over a vig shot. So you assume three things for Gumshoe to be mafia. 1) Marv RBed Gumshoe - Most likely 2) Gumshoe has extra Lives / immune to night KP - on top of vet, really? 3) Gumshoe has a PGO ability that only targets the first person that visits him at night - Okay this is just getting silly For anyone else to be mafia, they would need a bus drive ability. Just one assumption. | ||
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In any case if you are going to lynch gumshoe it'll probably be better to do it sooner than later. | ||
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Game was pretty balanced, just the town had way too many strong players. | ||
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Hopeless1der 03-09-2014 01:10 PM ET (US) he's a normal vet who has taken one shot. There is a busdriver, its probably LSB. Its the only thing that makes sense. btw has that busdriver comment always been in LSB's quote signature thingy? http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/211590-lsb-vs-rol-grudge-match | ||
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On March 10 2014 10:32 geript wrote: So are there any suggestions for balancing out a pyp mini? Have day 1 be separate from the draft/pick stage, not everyone should be able to get a role. The NRA role is pretty OP, especially with the amount of KP in the game Though I would blame the one sidedness simply due to the fact that the mafia team consisted of the three least active players. | ||
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