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On April 22 2016 02:17 Blazinghand wrote:
Dang, that's pretty depressing to hear. Man, even if you think your vote us unlikely to change something, don't you feel you have a duty to the nation as a citizen to in good faith cast your vote for these elections in the best way possible? If not, I respect your decision, but I feel like it's my responsibility and civic duty to vote, so I will continue.
I vote still but we Srs can't change anything here. Just about everything that happens is practically a landslide unless it's Gay marriage and then it is like Wat?
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Duty. Lawl. No. It's my duty to raise my daughter to not be a social pariah. It's my duty to make enough money to pay the rent so she has someplace to sleep. My duty does not extend to farcical audience-participation puppet shows. At least, not until next summer when I take Lorelai back to Disney World.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Jeez, come on guys. In local politics even a small amount of votes or money can make a big difference, and local politics has a huge impact on your life while not being the whole dog and pony show that federal politics is. As citizens of your city, county, states, and of the USA, even if you don't feel that you have a duty to society to place good-conscience votes, surely at least it makes sense to show up to the local elections, write to your city council, etc right? Even if you throw out your obligations as a citizen surely self-interest should drive you to take part in local politics! It's fun, it helps your community, and it is about control of the government that has the biggest impact on your life.
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Even self-interest is trumped, no pun intended, by the fact that deep down I feel like my voice is NOT heard and my vote does NOT matter, and that my taking part in it feels like a betrayal of my own beliefs. Like I'm becoming a part of the problem by buying into all of it.
I want something else. I don't know what, but the current system fails. I don't care how prosperous we are as a country, if it's all built on bullshit it stinks no matter where you are.
Like BH for example, you don't sound reasonable to me, you sound scripted at best and brainwashed/deluded at worst. You have a fake reasonable attitude that is designed to attract people who don't pay ACTUAL attention to what you're saying. You actually SOUND like a politician and I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find that you're deeply involved, if not directly then indirectly/financially (which I guess is also directly) involved in politics yourself.
No offense obviously. Politics is inherently dangerous ground and I don't want to seem dismissive or aggressive toward your beliefs. I'm just trying to make you understand why I feel the way I do because you seem genuinely distressed that I feel this way XD
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On April 22 2016 17:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
you sound scripted at best and brainwashed/deluded at worst.
Ugh, like this sounds so bad and I just want to clear up that I think you're a great guy and intelligent and I don't think you're dumb or whatever. I hate how sensitive people are about politics, not that I necessarily think you are, but I feel like that is part of why politics is so messed up in the first place. It's about emotional shit with the vast majority of people, and it always has been and it always will be, and that's the WORST way to pick our leaders, or think about anything critically, or ANYTHING besides finding happiness in a relationship. And no matter how many trips I take to the voting booth, that's never going to change. A) It's how the majority of voters choose their candidates, B) It's designed that way by the politics machine itself. People don't get enough information about candidates in the first place, and what information they typically get is completely irrelevant and blown out of proportion.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
I don't volunteer for any party nor have I donated money to any party-- but I vote in every election. I carefully read up on the ballot measures and the statements of the local candidates (as well as their records if they have any) to make the best decision possible. Believe it or not, it's possible to believe in the democratic process and do your civic duty and vote without being partisan, donating money to a party, etc. I honestly believe that it's the right thing to do, and my duty as a citizen. I also am aware that our democracy is flawed, and we have problems with jerrymandering, lack of proportional party representation, districting issues, and so on.
If you believe taking part in the particular democratic process that's in place where you live is a violation of your beliefs, then that's what you believe. And although I don't deeply understand it, I do get where you're coming from with the alienation from our political system, and can respect that. That doesn't change my own beliefs, any more than knowing that people out there have different beliefs than I do about religion, politics, culture, music, etc.
When it comes down to it, I feel like when I hear what you're saying, VE, I hear what a ton of edgy young people say when they choose to opt out of the political process, thereby denying themselves a voice in the system. It's very cool and all, but when it comes down to it, it doesn't really get at what I think the core of what politics is about. I think a lot of people are wowed by the glam and the glitz of federal politics and don't pay attention to the importance local politics. By the same token, a lot of people are cynical and depressed about federal politics and don't pay attention to the promise of local politics.
I know that many of the problems in my city are actually caused by this exact problem. In my city, there are many, many young people who are professionals and renters. But, only the homeowners and old people vote. So, for example, do we have a good bus system or a sensible parking system for our offices downtown? No, not really. We have one that the voters want, but the voters are mostly people who aren't like me. Only one person on the council cares about the interests and ran on a platform of representing renters and young people, everyone else catered to retirees and shit. And that's fine, that's the system working for them-- but there are enough people in my city who are young we could easily make it work for us, we just don't vote.
The problem isn't that our politicians are dishonest or anything! They literally ran on a platform of "we won't build any new housing if you elect us, and on top of that we'll also do stuff like restrict other forms of land development" and people said "sounds good" and voted them in, and they delivered on their promises. Some of my friends are all like refusing to vote and they don't realize the problem is with them. Some of them won't even register.
Maybe you're right about federal politics. I live in California so I know my vote doesn't count for anything-- yet. But there's so much more than that, and if you just look at the surface, and throw up your hands and give up and do nothing, then maybe that's how you be part of the problem, not by voting. Just my thoughts there though. You can say it sounds like, canned or whatever, but that's how it's gonna sound cause it's also what lots of other people believe.
I will say that whatever arguments you have against the political system, I've heard them all. I have several friends who are anarchists (or anarcho-primitivists), and I know one guy who is, and I shit you not, a monarchist (though he calls himself a neoreactionary). I know lots of people who don't believe in our current system, and maybe there's some truth to that. Certainly, these people are smart and well-informed, and there are many of them. I feel pretty alone in like, actually voting. Amazingly, doing my civic duty and being "normal" is actually pretty unusual amongst people my age. Perhaps the edgiest of all things is to be not at all edgy eh
In any case, it's always fun to stretch the arguing chops, especially about like, Politics with a capital P rather than a lowercase p. If I could redesign our federal legislature, for example, I'd keep the senate pretty much the same, but have the house of representatives also have national-level reps added from each party until it was proportional.
For example, in the US we have 435 reps, right? But it could happen that Green Party gets 10% of votes in every state and every district, but 0 reps cause of 1st past the post. In many democracies, what they do is, after the legislative elections, they look at the proportions and fix it (minimum req of 5% for example). So let's say this happened in the US:
220 seats - Republicans
190 seats - Democrats
25 seats - various other parties
Breakdown by percentage of voting, nationwide:
45% republican, 40% democrat, 10% libertarian, 5% green
In a case like this, we add 54 federal (not affiliated with a state) reps to bring our total to 489, so the 220 republican seats are 45% of the seats. These 54 additional reps are split between democrat, libertarian, and green until we have our 45/40/10/5 split. This is how lots of functional democracies work. that would be pretty cool! It has the advantage of preserving regional representation (since the needs and interests of, say, californians is gonna be different than that of floridians, michiganders, or texans), but also introduces nation-wide proportional party representation. I think Germany has a system like this, and France may as well (though france is pretty strange).
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You want people to feel like their vote matters? Proportional Representation is the way to go.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
I know that many of the problems in my city are actually caused by this exact problem. In my city, there are many, many young people who are professionals and renters. But, only the homeowners and old people vote. So, for example, do we have a good bus system or a sensible parking system for our offices downtown? No, not really. We have one that the voters want, but the voters are mostly people who aren't like me. Only one person on the council cares about the interests and ran on a platform of representing renters and young people, everyone else catered to retirees and shit. And that's fine, that's the system working for them-- but there are enough people in my city who are young we could easily make it work for us, we just don't vote.
The problem isn't that our politicians are dishonest or anything! They literally ran on a platform of "we won't build any new housing if you elect us, and on top of that we'll also do stuff like restrict other forms of land development" and people said "sounds good" and voted them in, and they delivered on their promises. Some of my friends are all like refusing to vote and they don't realize the problem is with them. Some of them won't even register.
Stuff like this is bang on. All the young people in the UK are 'disillusioned' or whatever, and all the old people turn out to vote.
Result? Old people get all their benefits and pensions protected or increased, while housing support for 18-25 year olds get slashed. It's pretty disgusting tbh, but if you don't vote, they don't need to listen to you, they'll listen to the people who are actually voting.
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"Lyin' Ted and Kasich are mathematically dead and totally desperate. Their donors & special interest groups are not happy with them. Sad!"
I learning so much on how to troll in future games. Nicknames would be different cause style, but that ending is just great!
Reminds me of the times I would taunt mafia in my games and act crazy cause I knew they couldnt do anything besides kill me in spite+ Show Spoiler +. But this guy takes it to the RL.
So if you got voting issues, remember a vote for Trump is a symbolic vote of hope for a future Chez Mayor.
Chez still dreams.
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On April 22 2016 21:08 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +I know that many of the problems in my city are actually caused by this exact problem. In my city, there are many, many young people who are professionals and renters. But, only the homeowners and old people vote. So, for example, do we have a good bus system or a sensible parking system for our offices downtown? No, not really. We have one that the voters want, but the voters are mostly people who aren't like me. Only one person on the council cares about the interests and ran on a platform of representing renters and young people, everyone else catered to retirees and shit. And that's fine, that's the system working for them-- but there are enough people in my city who are young we could easily make it work for us, we just don't vote.
The problem isn't that our politicians are dishonest or anything! They literally ran on a platform of "we won't build any new housing if you elect us, and on top of that we'll also do stuff like restrict other forms of land development" and people said "sounds good" and voted them in, and they delivered on their promises. Some of my friends are all like refusing to vote and they don't realize the problem is with them. Some of them won't even register. Stuff like this is bang on. All the young people in the UK are 'disillusioned' or whatever, and all the old people turn out to vote. Result? Old people get all their benefits and pensions protected or increased, while housing support for 18-25 year olds get slashed. It's pretty disgusting tbh, but if you don't vote, they don't need to listen to you, they'll listen to the people who are actually voting.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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This discussion reminded me that I wanted to put that Max Frisch quote in my Signature again.
On April 22 2016 17:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
Even self-interest is trumped, no pun intended, by the fact that deep down I feel like my voice is NOT heard and my vote does NOT matter, and that my taking part in it feels like a betrayal of my own beliefs. Like I'm becoming a part of the problem by buying into all of it.
I want something else. I don't know what, but the current system fails. I don't care how prosperous we are as a country, if it's all built on bullshit it stinks no matter where you are.
Like BH for example, you don't sound reasonable to me, you sound scripted at best and brainwashed/deluded at worst. You have a fake reasonable attitude that is designed to attract people who don't pay ACTUAL attention to what you're saying. You actually SOUND like a politician and I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find that you're deeply involved, if not directly then indirectly/financially (which I guess is also directly) involved in politics yourself.
No offense obviously. Politics is inherently dangerous ground and I don't want to seem dismissive or aggressive toward your beliefs. I'm just trying to make you understand why I feel the way I do because you seem genuinely distressed that I feel this way XD
But you cannot abstain from politics in a system that uses any form of democracy. If you don't vote, you'll support the ruling party.
Also what Marv said. I'm living in a country where you can vote on everything if you get enough people together, and we vote on about 20 topics a year (and the result is binding, the parliament has to create laws based on the decisions). It's disheartening to see how many people complain about how politicians are all wrong and not listening to the population, but they never vote themselves! Every time only 35 - 50 % of the population is actually voting, and we have votes that have been decided by differences of less than 3000 votes.
Seriously, if you can vote, do it. Even if you are voting someone who you think will never have a chance, it's still better than to passively support a party that you don't want.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On April 22 2016 21:08 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +I know that many of the problems in my city are actually caused by this exact problem. In my city, there are many, many young people who are professionals and renters. But, only the homeowners and old people vote. So, for example, do we have a good bus system or a sensible parking system for our offices downtown? No, not really. We have one that the voters want, but the voters are mostly people who aren't like me. Only one person on the council cares about the interests and ran on a platform of representing renters and young people, everyone else catered to retirees and shit. And that's fine, that's the system working for them-- but there are enough people in my city who are young we could easily make it work for us, we just don't vote.
The problem isn't that our politicians are dishonest or anything! They literally ran on a platform of "we won't build any new housing if you elect us, and on top of that we'll also do stuff like restrict other forms of land development" and people said "sounds good" and voted them in, and they delivered on their promises. Some of my friends are all like refusing to vote and they don't realize the problem is with them. Some of them won't even register. Stuff like this is bang on. All the young people in the UK are 'disillusioned' or whatever, and all the old people turn out to vote. Result? Old people get all their benefits and pensions protected or increased, while housing support for 18-25 year olds get slashed. It's pretty disgusting tbh, but if you don't vote, they don't need to listen to you, they'll listen to the people who are actually voting.
I vote even though my area is exclusively Conservative dominated and will never not be that way. Git gud kids.
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United States9699 Posts
If you like me here feel free to add me on steam Onegu or Bnet Onegu#1362. Will play alot of overwatch. I am in the discord server not yamatos but the actual TL one.
Its been fun for a lot of the time, and really not for some. For the fun time people join me enjoy some games together with some otherr people. To the rest of you, well fuck it you dont even deserve a response from me.
Also if you say good riddance well guess what.
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On April 26 2016 07:12 Onegu wrote:
If you like me here feel free to add me on steam Onegu or Bnet Onegu#1362. Will play alot of overwatch. I am in the discord server not yamatos but the actual TL one.
Its been fun for a lot of the time, and really not for some. For the fun time people join me enjoy some games together with some otherr people. To the rest of you, well fuck it you dont even deserve a response from me.
Also if you say good riddance well guess what.
Eh?
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United States9699 Posts
On April 26 2016 07:33 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2016 07:12 Onegu wrote:
If you like me here feel free to add me on steam Onegu or Bnet Onegu#1362. Will play alot of overwatch. I am in the discord server not yamatos but the actual TL one.
Its been fun for a lot of the time, and really not for some. For the fun time people join me enjoy some games together with some otherr people. To the rest of you, well fuck it you dont even deserve a response from me.
Also if you say good riddance well guess what. Eh?
I enjoy alot of people here, I enjoy playing mafia or I am guessing other games because they are cool people. The rest arent fun to play with they are assholes and I dont want to play other games with them and I am fairly certain they dont want to play games with me.
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On April 26 2016 22:30 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2016 07:33 Alakaslam wrote:On April 26 2016 07:12 Onegu wrote:
If you like me here feel free to add me on steam Onegu or Bnet Onegu#1362. Will play alot of overwatch. I am in the discord server not yamatos but the actual TL one.
Its been fun for a lot of the time, and really not for some. For the fun time people join me enjoy some games together with some otherr people. To the rest of you, well fuck it you dont even deserve a response from me.
Also if you say good riddance well guess what. Eh? I enjoy alot of people here, I enjoy playing mafia or I am guessing other games because they are cool people. The rest arent fun to play with they are assholes and I dont want to play other games with them and I am fairly certain they dont want to play games with me.
Oh I should have waited and read this
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I miss when we could be friends after games even after blow ups. Like wtf happened? Seriously? I mean, I used to be off-and-on toxic early on but hey I've grown up a good amount. What's happened since then? Can't we just get along and be friends and shit.
Here's the people I miss:
VisceraEyes--Between the random "tantrums", there were very few games where he wouldn't try his damnedest to win. He's equally awful as I am at league, but was always more than up for having fun at it. Plus his random love affair and intimate knowledge of Marv was great.
Hapahauli--I miss the no nonsense approach Hapa would take with things. He'd have a little fun in the start, but he'd love to drive headway into critically analyzing the game.
Promethelax--I almost miss how bad he is at scum. But his approach to both coaching and playing, taking an almost abstract and analytical approach to how people are trying to look at the game is something I personally miss.
Keirathi--Ironically, there's probably no one I was more scared to play with as scum. He had this almost unique ability to wholly refocus town into an effective scum hunting machine. He could joke and play; I really miss having someone to look up to in how to approach meta reads.
Holyflare--He's really an enigma to me in many ways. He had this ability to be shooting the shit with people and then, correctly, turn around and call them scum. While prone at points to being a bit off and people fear not-lynching his pushes, he just had this approach to finding scum that I still can't really understand quite often. He's also one of the few players who was as good (if not better) as scum than he was as town.
WaveofShadow--While Wave was never really good at the game, he almost always was fun to play with.
Coagulation--No matter how crazy shit was or how tense it was, Coag always had a very whimsical approach. He wasn't always the best to play with, often because of how little he tried/cared, but he was always super fun to read.
Wherebugsgo--I don't think there's a single player who's been as cognizant of "thread pull", "thread presence" and all the things that surround getting someone lynched as Bugs. IIRC, in The Game he made a case on GMarsh(or Greymist I forget which) because he knew it was "good enough" and that the player would just kinda ignore it if he was busy and in the current state of the thread it would get him lynched. His ability to manipulate the thread (as both alignments) in his favor has always been impressive.
Palmer--I miss when he would actually play. He'd find a way to explain complex things simply to force a read. His thread presence was almost overbearing and he was more right than wrong which is the impressive thing about it.
Marvellosity--I miss intentionally misspelling his name and all the dick jokes. Plus the late night PMs never failed to impress or make me chuckle. Plus he's fun to play with.
I'm sure there's a number more I'm forgetting. I "grew up" well after the Flamewheel, Ace, Incognito era.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5Rdg38N.jpg)
