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Message GMarshal if you request a ban please ^_^
Also when the game you're sitting out is over!
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On January 05 2014 14:53 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Perhaps it would be wise for this forum to take a month or so off of mafia.
Terrible thing to say. That's basically the total opposite of the correct reaction here. Being terrorised into everyone quitting mafia? That's really your solution to a couple of outliers?
On January 05 2014 20:03 Promethelax wrote:
I'd like to second (or perhaps third or fourth) the notion of moving away from mod requested punishments and towards a regular punishment for a regular infraction some mods give lesser punishments than others and I think it would be good for the sense of fairness that that discrepancy be looked at.
While geript adds revenge fantasies and grudges to it the central point he is making about fairness the point itself is not totally unwarranted. I don't believe this is the proper place for that discussion, though I don't know what the proper place is, but I do believe that the discussion is valuable.
The fact is, not all things are equal. There is always context. There are always relationships. If anyone's in any doubt, just go read the TL 10 commandments again. This is *our* house. The commandments are pretty clear that respected or veteran posters are given more leeway than newer posters because... that's the way it is, and if you don't like it, you can leave.
So in the context of this forum, if you're a veteran player and you regularly contribute, host games, people like playing with you, you have histories with people, etc etc etc - then damn right are you going to be treated a bit differently than a hotheaded newbie, and rightly so.
edit: not all inactivity modkills are equal, not all ragequits are equal. I replaced out of LoL for personal reasons that I shared with WoS and I don't want him being "forced" to request a ban for me and private information I shared with him to become public. WoS had knowledge of why I replaced out and therefore didn't pursue anything wrt to me, and that's how it should be.
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While you have a valid point Marv, that logic can only be beneficial in a community where all of the veterans are kind, helpful, and follow the rules.
If all the veterans were like Ange, for example. Someone who is calm, kind, and helpful, then this forum would not have the problems that Prom brought up. You wouldn't need to have equal treatment because if a veteran breaks the rules, you could look at their history in the forum as productive and helpful to the community and you could forgive them for whatever transgression they committed. A good example would be DrH, someone who was a veteran that I don't remember anyone having a problem with. When he ragequitted in Bluelightz and the other game, it looked bad for him. However, we also know that DrH is a nice guy and we understood that he wasn't actually like that. He could've been going through rough times or whatever. So, we are able to forgive him b/c we know of his good behavior in the past.
However, this is far from the case. There are a few vets here who are very abrasive or simply uncaring about the game. They say things in games that only they can get away with because they are veterans. They have made relationships with the other veterans (who tend to make up most of the hosting base) and the hosts do not want to sanction them in fear of losing the friendship. It's not a bad thing, it's just human nature.
This is why your logic isn't very valid, Marv. Hosts are biased due to relationships made on this forum. It tends to lead to decisions that seem very one-sided towards veterans. I think this is what Geript was talking about (although he said it in a way that makes it impossible for people to agree with him).
I think we need a way to make less biased decisions. We need to figure out how strictly we want to enforce the rules and keep that standard throughout all of the games that follow the ban list. It's also not very fair when some hosts are strict and some are lenient, which leads to something being a violation of the rules in one game and not a violation in another. In my opinion, that is the basis of Geript's frustration and I kind of have to agree with him.
So yeah, that is my 2 cents.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
I wasn't making a blanket statement about *all* veterans, simply that everything and everyone is not equal, and rightly so, and it will remain that way, and actually there's no problem with that at all.
There are literally no real problems with the banlist apart from one or two players. None at all. All the drama in this 24 pages has been created by about 2 players out of a base of 200 or something. It's insignificant and irrelevant. 99% of players are simply not aggrieved with ban decisions like this...
My only actual surprise is that GMarshal has let geript spew his poison for so long without simply getting rid of him.
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On January 06 2014 05:17 marvellosity wrote:
I wasn't making a blanket statement about *all* veterans, simply that everything and everyone is not equal, and rightly so, and it will remain that way, and actually there's no problem with that at all.
There are literally no real problems with the banlist apart from one or two players. None at all. All the drama in this 24 pages has been created by about 2 players out of a base of 200 or something. It's insignificant and irrelevant. 99% of players are simply not aggrieved with ban decisions like this...
My only actual surprise is that GMarshal has let geript spew his poison for so long without simply getting rid of him.
I don't think the problem is that not everyone is equal, it is my feeling that people who don't deserve preferential treatment continue to get it.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
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On January 06 2014 05:21 marvellosity wrote:
Tough titties.
Posts like that don't help anything at all T.T
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
Doesn't matter what it helps and what it doesn't help, it's the truth. The massive, mostly silent, majority are clearly fine with how the banlist works, other than some handwringing recently because of one or two players.
Seriously, this is #1 in TL 10 comandments, don't see what should be massively different about the Mafia subforum in particular
1. THIS IS OUR HOUSE
You are our guests. We will make all attempts to treat everyone with due respect and to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as reasonably possible. But, this is a private site. We are not funded by any governments. This means we run the site the way we see fit. We are not obligated to observe anyone's notions of "free speech" or even "fairness." We try of course, and that's why we're consistently considered one of the best gaming sites on the web, and you are always free to give us suggestions (Website Feedback Forum). But, we have our limits. If we don't like you, we simply ban you.
Banlist is fine, punishments are fine, things are discussed fine, move along.
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But this sub-forum isn't moderated by TL rules. It's moderated in-house. So the commandments aren't really valid here. If they were, then we would have to ban a lot more people that we do.
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On January 06 2014 05:20 Corazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 05:17 marvellosity wrote:
I wasn't making a blanket statement about *all* veterans, simply that everything and everyone is not equal, and rightly so, and it will remain that way, and actually there's no problem with that at all.
There are literally no real problems with the banlist apart from one or two players. None at all. All the drama in this 24 pages has been created by about 2 players out of a base of 200 or something. It's insignificant and irrelevant. 99% of players are simply not aggrieved with ban decisions like this...
My only actual surprise is that GMarshal has let geript spew his poison for so long without simply getting rid of him. I don't think the problem is that not everyone is equal, it is my feeling that people who don't deserve preferential treatment continue to get it.
So how do you determine the deservedness of said player you happen not to like?
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On January 06 2014 12:33 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 05:20 Corazon wrote:On January 06 2014 05:17 marvellosity wrote:
I wasn't making a blanket statement about *all* veterans, simply that everything and everyone is not equal, and rightly so, and it will remain that way, and actually there's no problem with that at all.
There are literally no real problems with the banlist apart from one or two players. None at all. All the drama in this 24 pages has been created by about 2 players out of a base of 200 or something. It's insignificant and irrelevant. 99% of players are simply not aggrieved with ban decisions like this...
My only actual surprise is that GMarshal has let geript spew his poison for so long without simply getting rid of him. I don't think the problem is that not everyone is equal, it is my feeling that people who don't deserve preferential treatment continue to get it. So how do you determine the deservedness of said player you happen not to like?
By having an equal standard of judgement. The veterans who follow the rules will not have anything change, while the veterans who continue to bend/break the rules will be punished.
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Everything is fine the way it is. Marv is correct. And it is basically a couple of bad apples causing a ruckus.
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On January 06 2014 13:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Everything is fine the way it is. Marv is correct. And it is basically a couple of bad apples causing a ruckus.
Those are... some awfully absolute statements. I'm not sure it's that simple.
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On January 06 2014 13:17 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 13:03 DarthPunk wrote:
Everything is fine the way it is. Marv is correct. And it is basically a couple of bad apples causing a ruckus. Those are... some awfully absolute statements. I'm not sure it's that simple.
Trust me. a year or 2 ago there were no issues. Now there are.
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That doesn't necessarily mean that all the problems were caused by people who joined recently. We have many veterans in this community.
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On January 06 2014 13:26 Corazon wrote:
That doesn't necessarily mean that all the problems were caused by people who joined recently. We have many veterans in this community.
This is exactly what it means.
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If cora and geript were just not allowed to post in the banlist things would get a lot better. That being said cora seems to be improving leaps and bounds recently.
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So your solution is censorship, based on whatever your judgement is?
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EDIT: I know what it says above about "THIS IS OUR HOUSE" and all. I still reckon this would be a terribly, terribly bad move - it sets a truly awful precedent.
Now if GM, the owner of this thread, comes in and says "I don't want to see X and Y" that's his prerogative. But that is his decision. Not mine, not DP's, not Geript's, not Marv's.
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On January 06 2014 13:41 DarthPunk wrote:
If cora and geript were just not allowed to post in the banlist things would get a lot better. That being said cora seems to be improving leaps and bounds recently.
Thx for the backhanded compliment, I guess.
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Life might be so much simpler if we thought of one-another as people first, and players second. In normal life, you probably don't get along with every single person you meet, and that's going to happen in other forms of inter-personal experiences as well. You probably wouldn't call someone you don't get along with something disparaging to their face for no other reason than to hurt them, so why should we expect to see that here?
Let's get real with the cognitive dissonance, first.
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On January 06 2014 13:46 Aquanim wrote:
So your solution is censorship, based on whatever your judgement is?
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EDIT: I know what it says above about "THIS IS OUR HOUSE" and all. I still reckon this would be a terribly, terribly bad move - it sets a truly awful precedent.
Now if GM, the owner of this thread, comes in and says "I don't want to see X and Y" that's his prerogative. But that is his decision. Not mine, not DP's, not Geript's, not Marv's.
Don't read into it as anything more than common sense. Moderation of forums is censorship that is exactly what it is. Of course it is not my decision but I have no issue with saying what I feel are the cause of the problems.
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EPT
