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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On September 04 2013 07:18 Umasi wrote:
what were the town traits you look for in infii? Because I was legitimately on board with gotard day one, I thought he was legitimately scummy
He started off suspicious yeh, but he actually posted thoughtful things a bit later. People kept hammering his first post though and ignoring the rest of his contributions which were actually good. Day 2 he obviously proved himself to be a lot more town too.
Also, correct me if i'm wrong but contrary to last game where I always advocate a lynch day 1, if we do a no-lynch today, does it work more in favour of town?
Since this is a 12 player game with 3 scum and 9 town:
If we mislynch no blue saves etc:
Day 2: 7 town / 3 scum
Day 3: 5 town / 3 scum mylo
If we don't lynch day 1:
Day 2: 8 town / 3 scum
Day 3: 6 town / 3 scum
Day 4: 4 town / 3 scum lylo
so we get an extra day out of not lynching day 1?
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
ah, forgot it was semi open setup too so it becomes slightly more risky, hate these ><
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
although if we do unfortunately mislynch we can no lynch day 3 and it would be the same right?
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Regardless of the math, a day 1 lynch as the norm gets people talking. No lynch = no incentive to give up information. Unless everyone is super cooperative and gives great information, we lynch.
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United States1399 Posts
yeah, it would be the same.
That said, we shouldn't ever plan to no lynch unless shit has either A: really hit the fan or B: we can win with jailkeep protects/doc protects/cop checks/something that you can logic out (see ....three games ago? with chromatically, where he singles out the SK as nightcat in such a pattern).
despite the last game you played with me, I really am a fan of lynching every day.
consider this situation last game, where it was stim/me/slam/deus
if we nolynched, I'd have shot stim.
we could have no lynched for more time, but that's also saying 'stim, your opinions are literally not worth acting upon.'
No lynching if everyone is equally scummy (for some reason) isn't as bad, but still *shrug*
lynching is the single power a vanilla townie has (which we all are in thread, btw), so no lynching to me is squandering that power.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On September 04 2013 07:36 Chairman Ray wrote:
Regardless of the math, a day 1 lynch as the norm gets people talking. No lynch = no incentive to give up information. Unless everyone is super cooperative and gives great information, we lynch.
Sacrificing an extra day and killing off a potential townsman is stupid as we can get a lot more information from power roles discovering stuff at night as well. AND GAIN AN EXTRA NIGHT OF POTENTIAL INFORMATION AND SAVES. So, I wouldn't necessarily jump to the hate all no lynch pattern.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 04 2013 07:39 Umasi wrote:
yeah, it would be the same.
That said, we shouldn't ever plan to no lynch unless shit has either A: really hit the fan or B: we can win with jailkeep protects/doc protects/cop checks/something that you can logic out (see ....three games ago? with chromatically, where he singles out the SK as nightcat in such a pattern).
despite the last game you played with me, I really am a fan of lynching every day.
consider this situation last game, where it was stim/me/slam/deus
if we nolynched, I'd have shot stim.
we could have no lynched for more time, but that's also saying 'stim, your opinions are literally not worth acting upon.'
No lynching if everyone is equally scummy (for some reason) isn't as bad, but still *shrug*
lynching is the single power a vanilla townie has (which we all are in thread, btw), so no lynching to me is squandering that power.
The game with you stim and slam etc etc is really really game specific so you don't actually know how it will play out. It definitely wouldn't work out like that if they didn't mason reveal or there weren't masons at all for example.
Remember this is a game with EVEN amount of people, I presume the games you are all talking about where you must always lynch is in an odd player based game.
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United States1399 Posts
On September 04 2013 07:36 Chairman Ray wrote:
Regardless of the math, a day 1 lynch as the norm gets people talking. No lynch = no incentive to give up information. Unless everyone is super cooperative and gives great information, we lynch.
anything else to add about anything?
Holyflare:
no lynching is 'occasionally alright'. I'll grant you that.
But no lynching D1 is not good.
the problem is you could be 'lynching a potential townsman'
but the entire reason you are lynching that person is because they are more than likely a potential scummer!
voting to no lynch because the target could be town is like not using your doctor save because your target could be scum and there'd be a vig shot on him. Like, is that sensible?
not really.
I'm gonna go to class, I'll be back later tonight.
/afk
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Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On September 04 2013 07:51 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 07:36 Chairman Ray wrote:
Regardless of the math, a day 1 lynch as the norm gets people talking. No lynch = no incentive to give up information. Unless everyone is super cooperative and gives great information, we lynch. anything else to add about anything? Holyflare: no lynching is 'occasionally alright'. I'll grant you that. But no lynching D1 is not good. the problem is you could be 'lynching a potential townsman' but the entire reason you are lynching that person is because they are more than likely a potential scummer! voting to no lynch because the target could be town is like not using your doctor save because your target could be scum and there'd be a vig shot on him. Like, is that sensible? not really. I'm gonna go to class, I'll be back later tonight. /afk
that's dumb reasoning, a lynch day 1 is 75% likely to hit a townsperson compared to the 25% for scum. Especially considering within that 75% is likely to be 1 or 2 blue roles that would have to reveal and then subsequently be lost at night if they were the target to be lynched
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I agree we should try and lynch day 1, but we need to do so intelligently based on pressuring information out of players allegiances. The thing you should do as town is try and post as actively as possible, but avoid any fluff. If you can't figure out who look scummy figure out who looks like a town player.
I'm not liking the discussion about prior games, it really doesn't add anything to this one. I don't care that X player did Y in the game before because we've all played so few games that we won't have too many clear recognizable patterns to follow. I don't necessarily think its a scum-tell but I also don't think we should pursue it any further.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On September 04 2013 07:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now.
bar the troll, how much off forum mafia have you played?
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On September 04 2013 07:58 Blurry wrote:
I agree we should try and lynch day 1, but we need to do so intelligently based on pressuring information out of players allegiances. The thing you should do as town is try and post as actively as possible, but avoid any fluff. If you can't figure out who look scummy figure out who looks like a town player.
I'm not liking the discussion about prior games, it really doesn't add anything to this one. I don't care that X player did Y in the game before because we've all played so few games that we won't have too many clear recognizable patterns to follow. I don't necessarily think its a scum-tell but I also don't think we should pursue it any further.
I entirely disagree with you, meta has helped me determine who is who in every game I have played, especially in the newbie games.
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On September 04 2013 07:59 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 07:53 Chairman Ray wrote:
Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now. bar the troll, how much off forum mafia have you played?
1 game forum mafia, 1 session face to face mafia.
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Welcome everyone, good to be back again!
Similiar to the last game I won't be able to devote as much time to this game as I would like to for rl reasons.
I see we have some familiar faces from 2 games ago. I will try to discard my knowledge of your playstyles as much as I can to prevent a mis-judgement based on earlier behaviour.
This game I'll try a different approach, and although I know no one is will straight out believe a simple claim, I still think that the claim pins itself either consciously or sub-consciously in your memory.
So here goes: I'm town.
I'm excited to see how this day will fold out, so happy discussing everyone! I'm heading to bed right away and will see you tomorrow.
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On September 04 2013 07:53 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 07:51 Umasi wrote:On September 04 2013 07:36 Chairman Ray wrote:
Regardless of the math, a day 1 lynch as the norm gets people talking. No lynch = no incentive to give up information. Unless everyone is super cooperative and gives great information, we lynch. anything else to add about anything? Holyflare: no lynching is 'occasionally alright'. I'll grant you that. But no lynching D1 is not good. the problem is you could be 'lynching a potential townsman' but the entire reason you are lynching that person is because they are more than likely a potential scummer! voting to no lynch because the target could be town is like not using your doctor save because your target could be scum and there'd be a vig shot on him. Like, is that sensible? not really. I'm gonna go to class, I'll be back later tonight. /afk that's dumb reasoning, a lynch day 1 is 75% likely to hit a townsperson compared to the 25% for scum. Especially considering within that 75% is likely to be 1 or 2 blue roles that would have to reveal and then subsequently be lost at night if they were the target to be lynched
You get a lot more out of lynching than just the player dead, you also get loads of information on everybody and is one of the best ways to have the scum reveal themselves. Bandwagoning, Fence Sitting, Caving under pressure are some of the best ways to spot the scum and these are revealed when you lynch a player day 1.
Since its plurality vote anyway, I'm going to be lynching somebody no matter what day 1, so now that the decision to lynch is taken out of your hands you better come up with some scum reads to not waste this day and reduce the chances of a mislynch.
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On September 04 2013 08:00 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 07:58 Blurry wrote:
I agree we should try and lynch day 1, but we need to do so intelligently based on pressuring information out of players allegiances. The thing you should do as town is try and post as actively as possible, but avoid any fluff. If you can't figure out who look scummy figure out who looks like a town player.
I'm not liking the discussion about prior games, it really doesn't add anything to this one. I don't care that X player did Y in the game before because we've all played so few games that we won't have too many clear recognizable patterns to follow. I don't necessarily think its a scum-tell but I also don't think we should pursue it any further. I entirely disagree with you, meta has helped me determine who is who in every game I have played, especially in the newbie games.
I'm already doing something entirely different from my previous game just because I have a better handle on how its supposed to be played and not because I have a different role. Prove me wrong though, if you can come up with a convincing argument that makes sense you will draw my attention to whoever you think is scum. I'm not counting it out, I'm just a little bit skeptical of its effectiveness.
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United Kingdom30775 Posts
On September 04 2013 08:04 Blurry wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 07:53 Holyflare wrote:On September 04 2013 07:51 Umasi wrote:On September 04 2013 07:36 Chairman Ray wrote:
Regardless of the math, a day 1 lynch as the norm gets people talking. No lynch = no incentive to give up information. Unless everyone is super cooperative and gives great information, we lynch. anything else to add about anything? Holyflare: no lynching is 'occasionally alright'. I'll grant you that. But no lynching D1 is not good. the problem is you could be 'lynching a potential townsman' but the entire reason you are lynching that person is because they are more than likely a potential scummer! voting to no lynch because the target could be town is like not using your doctor save because your target could be scum and there'd be a vig shot on him. Like, is that sensible? not really. I'm gonna go to class, I'll be back later tonight. /afk that's dumb reasoning, a lynch day 1 is 75% likely to hit a townsperson compared to the 25% for scum. Especially considering within that 75% is likely to be 1 or 2 blue roles that would have to reveal and then subsequently be lost at night if they were the target to be lynched You get a lot more out of lynching than just the player dead, you also get loads of information on everybody and is one of the best ways to have the scum reveal themselves. Bandwagoning, Fence Sitting, Caving under pressure are some of the best ways to spot the scum and these are revealed when you lynch a player day 1. Since its plurality vote anyway, I'm going to be lynching somebody no matter what day 1, so now that the decision to lynch is taken out of your hands you better come up with some scum reads to not waste this day and reduce the chances of a mislynch.
You can still vote no-lynch in a plurality, besides, I have only been suggesting the no-lynch if nothing comes to obvious light. The fact that you people are so eager to let us lose a day of mislynching is funny though because I don't think any of your arguments make sense.
If our strongest weapon is our connection theories and our votes, THEN WHY IS IT NOT BETTER TO GET 1 MORE DAY OF THESE THINGS?????? Wagons can happen every fucking day on every lynch. Why are you all so eager to kill off potential townspeople??
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On September 04 2013 08:07 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 08:04 Blurry wrote:On September 04 2013 07:53 Holyflare wrote:On September 04 2013 07:51 Umasi wrote:On September 04 2013 07:36 Chairman Ray wrote:
Regardless of the math, a day 1 lynch as the norm gets people talking. No lynch = no incentive to give up information. Unless everyone is super cooperative and gives great information, we lynch. anything else to add about anything? Holyflare: no lynching is 'occasionally alright'. I'll grant you that. But no lynching D1 is not good. the problem is you could be 'lynching a potential townsman' but the entire reason you are lynching that person is because they are more than likely a potential scummer! voting to no lynch because the target could be town is like not using your doctor save because your target could be scum and there'd be a vig shot on him. Like, is that sensible? not really. I'm gonna go to class, I'll be back later tonight. /afk that's dumb reasoning, a lynch day 1 is 75% likely to hit a townsperson compared to the 25% for scum. Especially considering within that 75% is likely to be 1 or 2 blue roles that would have to reveal and then subsequently be lost at night if they were the target to be lynched You get a lot more out of lynching than just the player dead, you also get loads of information on everybody and is one of the best ways to have the scum reveal themselves. Bandwagoning, Fence Sitting, Caving under pressure are some of the best ways to spot the scum and these are revealed when you lynch a player day 1. Since its plurality vote anyway, I'm going to be lynching somebody no matter what day 1, so now that the decision to lynch is taken out of your hands you better come up with some scum reads to not waste this day and reduce the chances of a mislynch. You can still vote no-lynch in a plurality, besides, I have only been suggesting the no-lynch if nothing comes to obvious light. The fact that you people are so eager to let us lose a day of mislynching is funny though because I don't think any of your arguments make sense. If our strongest weapon is our connection theories and our votes, THEN WHY IS IT NOT BETTER TO GET 1 MORE DAY OF THESE THINGS?????? Wagons can happen every fucking day on every lynch. Why are you all so eager to kill off potential townspeople??
Because lynching gives us the most information. Following your logic, if we don't have a role detector, should we just not lynch day 2 either because we'll lose another day?
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On September 04 2013 08:07 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 08:04 Blurry wrote:On September 04 2013 07:53 Holyflare wrote:On September 04 2013 07:51 Umasi wrote:On September 04 2013 07:36 Chairman Ray wrote:
Regardless of the math, a day 1 lynch as the norm gets people talking. No lynch = no incentive to give up information. Unless everyone is super cooperative and gives great information, we lynch. anything else to add about anything? Holyflare: no lynching is 'occasionally alright'. I'll grant you that. But no lynching D1 is not good. the problem is you could be 'lynching a potential townsman' but the entire reason you are lynching that person is because they are more than likely a potential scummer! voting to no lynch because the target could be town is like not using your doctor save because your target could be scum and there'd be a vig shot on him. Like, is that sensible? not really. I'm gonna go to class, I'll be back later tonight. /afk that's dumb reasoning, a lynch day 1 is 75% likely to hit a townsperson compared to the 25% for scum. Especially considering within that 75% is likely to be 1 or 2 blue roles that would have to reveal and then subsequently be lost at night if they were the target to be lynched You get a lot more out of lynching than just the player dead, you also get loads of information on everybody and is one of the best ways to have the scum reveal themselves. Bandwagoning, Fence Sitting, Caving under pressure are some of the best ways to spot the scum and these are revealed when you lynch a player day 1. Since its plurality vote anyway, I'm going to be lynching somebody no matter what day 1, so now that the decision to lynch is taken out of your hands you better come up with some scum reads to not waste this day and reduce the chances of a mislynch. You can still vote no-lynch in a plurality, besides, I have only been suggesting the no-lynch if nothing comes to obvious light. The fact that you people are so eager to let us lose a day of mislynching is funny though because I don't think any of your arguments make sense. If our strongest weapon is our connection theories and our votes, THEN WHY IS IT NOT BETTER TO GET 1 MORE DAY OF THESE THINGS?????? Wagons can happen every fucking day on every lynch. Why are you all so eager to kill off potential townspeople??
A couple more things, please don't use loaded questions. I don't want to kill townspeople, but I also think that the risk of doing so is necessary to inspire discussion. Why does it have to be obvious that someone is scum? We should go off our best hunch rather than waste time.
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A lynch on day 1 incentivizes people to avoid being the scummiest looking player since that player WILL be lynched
A possible no lynch on day 1 doesn't achieve this incentive since unless you completely crumble and blurt our something incriminating, then you don't get lynched
So under the first case, as long as every genuine townsperson is being very active and contributing, then mafia is forced to do the same. Even if we lynch a town on the first day, we're still on a good start. If not every genuine townsperson is active or contributing, lynching them isn't a big loss.
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EPT
