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On September 04 2013 12:56 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 12:53 Blurry wrote:
The reason you voice your suspicions is because it puts pressure on that person. When someone is under pressure they make mistakes and reveal things they shouldn't. Write about your hunches, it also allows us to see if you are innocent, and yes, when you are town you need to prove your innocence by providing good analysis and leading the discussion. Which is what happens later in the day when you can form a concise and accurate analysis and put them under pressure as it is nearer the deadline when they have less time to react and re-read the entire thread to formulate a post and so it is off the top of their head and memory. NOT when they have all the time in the world, the filters and the ability to talk with their allies in QT to formulate a counter strategy and or bandwagon. There is 0 pressure from calling somebody scum now.
ok, L, what do you propose we do in the meantime then?
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ended in you backtracking the fucking conversation, not you backtracking your stance on it.
I guess I was unclear.
let me phrase this differently and in a totally explicit manner
Why am I here again? What are we talking about?
Holyflare, why are you against discussion? You helped get it going in the beginning, but you sure aren't anymore. In fact, it could be said that you are against discussion from occuring. That is blatantly scum agenda.
##VOTE HOLYFLARE
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On September 04 2013 13:02 Umasi wrote:ended in you backtracking the fucking conversation, not you backtracking your stance on it. I guess I was unclear. let me phrase this differently and in a totally explicit manner Holyflare, why are you against discussion? You helped get it going in the beginning, but you sure aren't anymore. In fact, it could be said that you are against discussion from occuring. That is blatantly scum agenda. ##VOTE HOLYFLARE
Like I just said, it was in response to the question that Bereft just asked, and I also added what I thought at the end of the same post. I will absolutely not post my town reads. That has been my consistent theme throughout every game I have played and you should know that from the game you played with me and also from obsing the last game I was in.
You are being way too over aggressive so early, it doesn't make any sense. I am not stemming conversation, I am telling you how to formulate a proper case with motives and reasonings in order to apply pressure when it matters, not now when you can easily just wifom your way out of accussations.
In each of my games so far I have not posted my shit until it mattered and that is when the case was compelling enough for people to understand and agree with it. I am not going to post pointless stuff like 'yeh he said what I said so he's scummy' because you've done exactly that in this game but I hardly see anyone pointing fingers at you either.
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Okay so apparently I'm getting accused of being on a lot of people scum list which I think is unfair considering it was really early and there was only talk about the day 1 lynch and no real reads going out but I just liked what umasi was saying and he isn't really a threat (not sure if you said I thought you were a threat, had to read the other posts) but it was too early for me to personally get reads because all I got was Umasi's post because it made the most sense to me and in no way was I trying to affiliate myself with anybody seeing as I had no reads in the first place (No offense to Umasi, I'm sure you're a good player)
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So we should not talk until scum fuck up.
what happens if they don't?
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On September 04 2013 13:16 Umasi wrote:
So we should not talk until scum fuck up.
what happens if they don't?
Why should they ever fuck up on day 1, what reason is there to? How bad would somebody have to be playing to reveal that they are actually scum on day 1?? They have the power of all knowledge what would be the reason for them to screw up. You are more than welcome to talk about your scum and town reads but I will most definitely not talk about my town reads today, scum reads will come later on in the day phase of course.
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Vel, the way you treated me was as if I was a threat to be appeased by being like 'wow man he's pro town and I agree with him.'
Also, why did you only address things concerning you?
Why not bring up other points?
On September 04 2013 11:09 Blurry wrote:
This discussion is pretty slow so how about this.
Everyone answer the following questions.
Who is your strongest town read?
Who is your strongest scum read?
This will let us see where peoples allegiances lie. Also, give reasons for your choices.
Strongest town read: Holyflare, active, trying to provide analysis
Strongest scum read: Lord Velocity, hes just following along with Umasi's ideas, not really providing any of his own stuff.
address that.
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On September 04 2013 13:20 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 13:16 Umasi wrote:
So we should not talk until scum fuck up.
what happens if they don't? Why should they ever fuck up on day 1, what reason is there to? How bad would somebody have to be playing to reveal that they are actually scum on day 1?? They have the power of all knowledge what would be the reason for them to screw up. You are more than welcome to talk about your scum and town reads but I will most definitely not talk about my town reads today, scum reads will come later on in the day phase of course.
do we just sit here and twiddle thumbs?
Fwiw, I totally fucked up day one last game.
And I'm not prideful enough to call myself not awful, but purposefully not talking about something because you have information to hide is just stupid.
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On September 04 2013 12:58 Bereft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 12:56 Holyflare wrote:On September 04 2013 12:53 Blurry wrote:
The reason you voice your suspicions is because it puts pressure on that person. When someone is under pressure they make mistakes and reveal things they shouldn't. Write about your hunches, it also allows us to see if you are innocent, and yes, when you are town you need to prove your innocence by providing good analysis and leading the discussion. Which is what happens later in the day when you can form a concise and accurate analysis and put them under pressure as it is nearer the deadline when they have less time to react and re-read the entire thread to formulate a post and so it is off the top of their head and memory. NOT when they have all the time in the world, the filters and the ability to talk with their allies in QT to formulate a counter strategy and or bandwagon. There is 0 pressure from calling somebody scum now. ok, L, what do you propose we do in the meantime then?
Highlight a post that you question and ask for an explanation. It adds a pseudo pressure whereby they don't need to formulate the post, they just need to explain themselves. That is where the scum hunting is found, not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts.
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On September 04 2013 13:23 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 13:20 Holyflare wrote:On September 04 2013 13:16 Umasi wrote:
So we should not talk until scum fuck up.
what happens if they don't? Why should they ever fuck up on day 1, what reason is there to? How bad would somebody have to be playing to reveal that they are actually scum on day 1?? They have the power of all knowledge what would be the reason for them to screw up. You are more than welcome to talk about your scum and town reads but I will most definitely not talk about my town reads today, scum reads will come later on in the day phase of course. do we just sit here and twiddle thumbs? Fwiw, I totally fucked up day one last game. And I'm not prideful enough to call myself not awful, but purposefully not talking about something because you have information to hide is just stupid.
I've never said not to talk I just said don't call people scum or announce them as 'reads', do what you just did and it's all good by me.
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Well because I scimmed over the posts and why wouldn't I address things concerning me? I'm not trying to have a misslynch day 1 and give scum a one up, but in no way was I saying "He's pro town" I was simply stating that your logic made sense, but:
Strongest town read: Nobody so far because I don't think we've heard from everybody? so I can't really base it off of like, the 5 people that actually talked and not about the day 1 lynch thing.
Strongest Scum read: Umasi due to his fast vote on Holyflare and his super aggressive early play.
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hm. well. if we're just going to chat and make small talk ... i have to admit i'm no longer browsing that other newbie game for "meta" -- but for pure lulz. Alakaslam and iVLosK! sooo good. so many gems. i'd probably have kept alakaslam alive just for the banter.
hahah but seriously if we're just going to talk about inconsequential shit, what's the point?
also infii, killerdog, myrzeth, pharcyd3, where you guys at?
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VOTECOUNT!
Holyflare (1) - Umasi
Not Voting: Everyone Else
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NOT when they have all the time in the world, the filters and the ability to talk with their allies in QT to formulate a counter strategy and or bandwagon. There is 0 pressure from calling somebody scum now.
On September 04 2013 13:23 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2013 12:58 Bereft wrote:On September 04 2013 12:56 Holyflare wrote:On September 04 2013 12:53 Blurry wrote:
The reason you voice your suspicions is because it puts pressure on that person. When someone is under pressure they make mistakes and reveal things they shouldn't. Write about your hunches, it also allows us to see if you are innocent, and yes, when you are town you need to prove your innocence by providing good analysis and leading the discussion. Which is what happens later in the day when you can form a concise and accurate analysis and put them under pressure as it is nearer the deadline when they have less time to react and re-read the entire thread to formulate a post and so it is off the top of their head and memory. NOT when they have all the time in the world, the filters and the ability to talk with their allies in QT to formulate a counter strategy and or bandwagon. There is 0 pressure from calling somebody scum now. ok, L, what do you propose we do in the meantime then? Highlight a post that you question and ask for an explanation. It adds a pseudo pressure whereby they don't need to formulate the post, they just need to explain themselves. That is where the scum hunting is found, not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts.
on the one hand, you like it when they panic to create posts. On the other hand, you don't like it when they have to panic to create posts.
You don't like it when they can freely post and coordinate with their allies, but you need them to formulate the post for scum hunting.
By the same logic, holyflare, why are townies EVER mislynched? They have all the time in the world, etcetcetc.
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pretty sure you're twisting my words/misreading them
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This thread is growing much faster then i expected already lol, every time i think i've caught up, i refresh and theres another 10 posts waiting for me.
Not much seems to have happened so far, other then the prolonged discussion about whether to lynch or not, but heres what I've got so far.
First note, Umasi and holyflare seem to me to be the two players steering the conversation, they're the people who bring up new topics, or actively disagree with/try to change the public consensus on something. Also noted that they both mentioned having played with each other, infi and lonemeow, so they're definitely not first time players, and that's probably why they're being so much less timid then everyone else. Also infi didn't mention either of them or lonemeow in his one post, but this might just be because he seemed like he was just saying hi before he went to bed (from his one post, which didn't reference the current conversation at all).
Several people have only made one or two posts, with very little content.
Velocity, who several people seem to have jumped on already, as blurry said,
On September 04 2013 11:09 Blurry wrote:
Strongest scum read: Lord Velocity, hes just following along with Umasi's ideas, not really providing any of his own stuff.
Heavenz made one post, which didn't say anything at all. I'm going to overlook that as him just being on the way to bed/about to go somewhere, however it's a bad first impression and he'll have to prove his worth actively when he gets back.
pharcyd3, who noone seems to have mentioned (at least before i started writing this essay :p) has only made a single post, and it was one sentence openly attacking heavenz. While having a useless first post can be excused as just dipping your toes in the water or something, he openly threw doubt on someone, said absolutely nothing else, then vanished. Just based off this he'd probably be my scum read.
It feels like two philosophies are clashing between Umasi and Holyflare, both have been incredibly vocal and assertive in terms of controlling the discussion, and haven't been at all afraid to take a stand. A lot of the (non lynch/sleep) discourse seems to have been basically those responding to each other and other people just agreeing with one or the other.
Personally I think given how there are many people who have said literally nothing of value so far, there hasn't been any reason for either Umasi or Holyflare to be this vocal/sure of themselves should they be scum, and because of how easy it could have been for them to calmly take the backseat and let people waste time, I wouldn't (currently) feel comfortable voting for either. If nothing else, I think a a vocal mafia is much better to keep until day 2 (and lynch him then) then a quiet townie who will stay quiet, because it gives a shitload of information. Although that doesn't mean I don't want Holyflare to clarify his position. He got a bit confrontational after (i think blurry) mentioned everyone just giving scum/town reads.
My current read is Holyflare and Umasi are both town, but both seem to have (subconsciously or not) tried to take on the "leadership" role of the townies, and seem to be clashing. (note i've been writing this for a while now and more stuff might have been said since i started. Umasi has been the most consistent though, starting off by discouraging people making "i am new" posts to avoid mislynches, and has been consistent in starting conversations which would force mafia to say things which might later come back to haunt them.
It's 6 am so I'm probably gonna go to sleep now, looking forward to seeing how the thread develops overnight, and hopefully my grammar/spelling will be better tomorrow and i wont ramble as much :p
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Also two other things i forgot, Firstly there was discussion about "loaded questions" (again I think involving Holyflare, it feels like he has been chiming in on every little topic, but that might just be because he's been the most active so far.)
While loaded questions are fine, I think there's a difference between being articulate, and creative writing. Going overboard with figures of speech/ultimatums/hyperbole are just ways to make posts seem to have more content then they do, and while all native English speakers (including myself) naturally use them a lot, if someone can't go a sentence or two without being overly dramatic, that would read really scummy to me because it makes it feel like they're trying to convince people based on their phrasing rather then the actual content of the posts.
Fuck, forgot the second thing while typing the first, but it will probably come to me.
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On September 04 2013 13:24 Lord Velocity wrote:
Well because I scimmed over the posts and why wouldn't I address things concerning me? I'm not trying to have a misslynch day 1 and give scum a one up, but in no way was I saying "He's pro town" I was simply stating that your logic made sense, but:
Strongest town read: Nobody so far because I don't think we've heard from everybody? so I can't really base it off of like, the 5 people that actually talked and not about the day 1 lynch thing.
Strongest Scum read: Umasi due to his fast vote on Holyflare and his super aggressive early play.
Two things:
Scum read in retaliation to him questioning you is pretty suspicious. You aren't helping your case with that, especially because your analysis is flawed.
Aggression at the start is in no way indicative of scum, and if anything, is more a town indicator than anything, especially when he is leading the charge against a player.
It is really risky for scum to be so direct because it draws so much attention to them. Umasi is probably my biggest town read for that reason right now.
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I don't see myself as "a scum read" But hey anybody can say that. But I could just not be used to early aggression like that, if thats how you're explaining his aggression. I'm only used to Yamato's aggression in general but a scum read to his "scum read" on me is pretty normal. And aggression at the start could just as easily be someone being a good scum disguised as town. I simply have no reads this early and punish me if you will for simple responses/reactions.
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EPT
