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Newbie Mini Mafia XLVII - Page 12

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killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
September 04 2013 04:44 GMT
#221
Oh yeah, in the argument about lynches blurry and holyflare had a small period of responding to each other where it felt like, compared to the rest of the posts at the time which were mainly just saying "I want to lynch" or "maybe we shouldn't" Blurry and Holyflare had a few posts where they were sort of picking at each other, First about whether using the "meta" of how people have played in other games, then about whether to lynch or not, and then finally bringing up the whole thing about "loaded questions."

While holy was posting most at the time, so it's not that odd that blurry has mainly been talking to him, it feels like anything holyflare posts, blurry disagreed with, and it was blurry who started the talk about saying your town/scum reads, which holy then refused to do.

killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
September 04 2013 04:46 GMT
#222
Anyway, I'm off. Cya tomorrow.
Umasi
Profile Joined October 2012
United States1399 Posts
September 04 2013 04:47 GMT
#223
NOT when they have all the time in the world

not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts.


?????
"Sir, we finally have enough corpses to serve as a ramp for your horse." "THEN LET THE REAPING BEGIN!!"
Lord Velocity
Profile Joined August 2013
84 Posts
September 04 2013 04:49 GMT
#224
Umasi I think he's saying that when you claim people are scum or town, they immediately panic because they think that everybody will focus on them, Idk if thats exactly what he means. Like they will feel the need to post due to accusations against their person.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
September 04 2013 04:51 GMT
#225
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 04 2013 13:38 Blurry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2013 13:24 Lord Velocity wrote:
Well because I scimmed over the posts and why wouldn't I address things concerning me? I'm not trying to have a misslynch day 1 and give scum a one up, but in no way was I saying "He's pro town" I was simply stating that your logic made sense, but:

Strongest town read: Nobody so far because I don't think we've heard from everybody? so I can't really base it off of like, the 5 people that actually talked and not about the day 1 lynch thing.

Strongest Scum read: Umasi due to his fast vote on Holyflare and his super aggressive early play.


Two things:

Scum read in retaliation to him questioning you is pretty suspicious. You aren't helping your case with that, especially because your analysis is flawed.

Aggression at the start is in no way indicative of scum, and if anything, is more a town indicator than anything, especially when he is leading the charge against a player.

It is really risky for scum to be so direct because it draws so much attention to them. Umasi is probably my biggest town read for that reason right now.



Aggression is one thing but tunnelling is a whole different matter. Read Umasi's 2nd page and notice how every post towards me jumps to something new without addressing my last answer. Also notice how he ignores the posts around my post that lead to my the things he is criticising and then uses them as reasoning for his vote. That is dangerous town/bad behaviour that you shouldn't necessarily attribute to townies.

The constant criticism of one player always shuts the door on other players who are sitting back and watching things happen. Killerdog brings up some excellent points about other players that we should all be addressing. However, as they are most likely not around for now we can't do that. As lord vel is the only one that people had substantial queries towards who is still around you should also be pressing him and leaving questions for the people that aren't here to catch up on later. Especially as scum seem to skip over threads because they aren't scumhunting compared to the town that want to catch up on every detail. You should see who responds to these questions when they come back.

and of course, you may ask me whatever questions about what I have said that you deem relevant
Umasi
Profile Joined October 2012
United States1399 Posts
September 04 2013 04:51 GMT
#226
I guess?
He says two things that I think DIRECTLY CONFLICT with each other.

"Sir, we finally have enough corpses to serve as a ramp for your horse." "THEN LET THE REAPING BEGIN!!"
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
September 04 2013 04:52 GMT
#227
On September 04 2013 13:47 Umasi wrote:
Show nested quote +
NOT when they have all the time in the world

Show nested quote +
not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts.


?????


oh sorry EBWOP: 'panic'
Umasi
Profile Joined October 2012
United States1399 Posts
September 04 2013 04:53 GMT
#228
On September 04 2013 13:52 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2013 13:47 Umasi wrote:
NOT when they have all the time in the world

not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts.


?????


oh sorry EBWOP: 'panic'


.......
????????
"Sir, we finally have enough corpses to serve as a ramp for your horse." "THEN LET THE REAPING BEGIN!!"
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
September 04 2013 04:57 GMT
#229
On September 04 2013 13:53 Umasi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2013 13:52 Holyflare wrote:
On September 04 2013 13:47 Umasi wrote:
NOT when they have all the time in the world

not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts.


?????


oh sorry EBWOP: 'panic'


.......
????????


How was that clarification hard to understand?? 'panic' is in inverted commas to imply a non intentional meaning of the word. What it meant to come across as is that when you ask people to clarify a post they don't feel like they are under pressure so will just respond to you naturally, they wouldn't entirely always need to consult a QT etc. However, when you say "X or Y is scum" Bereft was saying that the whole idea was to create pressure and make them panic by doing it, but I am implying that saying that makes them 'panic' i.e. not at all.
Umasi
Profile Joined October 2012
United States1399 Posts
September 04 2013 05:02 GMT
#230
alright, I'm happy you clarified about 'panic'.
not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts.

downside here?



out of curiosity, did you ever read the previous games (the one with me as scum)'s qt?
I asked for geripts help on only a handful of posts, and even less of them did he respond on before I said 'eh good nuff'. Gotard and sc_a.M. playing the flaming afks for days, were also not around to consult frequently.
The scum team is not a hivemind =/
"Sir, we finally have enough corpses to serve as a ramp for your horse." "THEN LET THE REAPING BEGIN!!"
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
September 04 2013 05:05 GMT
#231
The scum qt last game was pretty hivemindy. Yours wasn't because those 2 were like afk the entire time in our game. So yeh like I said, just leave questions for the afk people intertwined in these posts to see if they read up on the game and if they don't I'd pressure them a lot more. Going to head to bed in a bit as well so whatevs you get up to I'll see later in the morning.
Umasi
Profile Joined October 2012
United States1399 Posts
September 04 2013 05:08 GMT
#232
ahem:


alright, I'm happy you clarified about 'panic'.
Show nested quote +
not by saying X or Y is scum and he has to panic create posts.


downside here?


bolded for clarity.

and maybe my game was the exception to the rule regarding qts =/
"Sir, we finally have enough corpses to serve as a ramp for your horse." "THEN LET THE REAPING BEGIN!!"
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
September 04 2013 05:11 GMT
#233
Deleting the panic disregards the intent behind it. I meant that they could formulate a post within the QT and get it checked so that it appeared 'pro town' all within that time. It is more pressure than needed and allows people to blend in too much in my experience so far. Compare this to asking off the cuff questions regarding a specific post. It's how I've caught people out so far hence why I'm so aprehensive to call people 'scum' right now. (Maybe i've just been lucky all these games?)
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
September 04 2013 05:21 GMT
#234
One very last thing, Umasi and Holyflare, if you don't resolve this within a page or two, just drop it. Everyone has noticed that Holyflare said two things which appear to go against each other a bit, but you two are by far the most vocal people so far in the thread, both of you have said a ton of things already, and this argument is just stalling the discussion now.

Having the two most vocal people crash into each other immediately just means that the other 10 players can get away with not saying anything SUPER easily, and the aim day 1 is to get as much information on as many people as possible. It's been noted that Umasi has been tunelling hard on Holyflare, and it's been noted that Holyflare has mentioned several other topics of discussion which have been brought up in the meantime.

I doubt Holyflare is going to suddenly crack at this point, and I doubt anything Holyflare says will fully satisfy Umasi. By all means try and settle this if you can, but I feel it would be much more pro town to note down that this happened, maybe revisit it at a later date, and focus on getting as many people to talk about as many things as possible.

It just feels like all potential discussion topics (including the questioning of velocity) was brought in the last few pages have ended up being ignored because of this really early vote call/interrogation.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30774 Posts
September 04 2013 05:22 GMT
#235
On September 04 2013 14:21 killerdog wrote:
One very last thing, Umasi and Holyflare, if you don't resolve this within a page or two, just drop it. Everyone has noticed that Holyflare said two things which appear to go against each other a bit, but you two are by far the most vocal people so far in the thread, both of you have said a ton of things already, and this argument is just stalling the discussion now.

Having the two most vocal people crash into each other immediately just means that the other 10 players can get away with not saying anything SUPER easily, and the aim day 1 is to get as much information on as many people as possible. It's been noted that Umasi has been tunelling hard on Holyflare, and it's been noted that Holyflare has mentioned several other topics of discussion which have been brought up in the meantime.

I doubt Holyflare is going to suddenly crack at this point, and I doubt anything Holyflare says will fully satisfy Umasi. By all means try and settle this if you can, but I feel it would be much more pro town to note down that this happened, maybe revisit it at a later date, and focus on getting as many people to talk about as many things as possible.

It just feels like all potential discussion topics (including the questioning of velocity) was brought in the last few pages have ended up being ignored because of this really early vote call/interrogation.



On September 04 2013 13:51 Holyflare wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 04 2013 13:38 Blurry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2013 13:24 Lord Velocity wrote:
Well because I scimmed over the posts and why wouldn't I address things concerning me? I'm not trying to have a misslynch day 1 and give scum a one up, but in no way was I saying "He's pro town" I was simply stating that your logic made sense, but:

Strongest town read: Nobody so far because I don't think we've heard from everybody? so I can't really base it off of like, the 5 people that actually talked and not about the day 1 lynch thing.

Strongest Scum read: Umasi due to his fast vote on Holyflare and his super aggressive early play.


Two things:

Scum read in retaliation to him questioning you is pretty suspicious. You aren't helping your case with that, especially because your analysis is flawed.

Aggression at the start is in no way indicative of scum, and if anything, is more a town indicator than anything, especially when he is leading the charge against a player.

It is really risky for scum to be so direct because it draws so much attention to them. Umasi is probably my biggest town read for that reason right now.



Aggression is one thing but tunnelling is a whole different matter. Read Umasi's 2nd page and notice how every post towards me jumps to something new without addressing my last answer. Also notice how he ignores the posts around my post that lead to my the things he is criticising and then uses them as reasoning for his vote. That is dangerous town/bad behaviour that you shouldn't necessarily attribute to townies.

The constant criticism of one player always shuts the door on other players who are sitting back and watching things happen. Killerdog brings up some excellent points about other players that we should all be addressing. However, as they are most likely not around for now we can't do that. As lord vel is the only one that people had substantial queries towards who is still around you should also be pressing him and leaving questions for the people that aren't here to catch up on later. Especially as scum seem to skip over threads because they aren't scumhunting compared to the town that want to catch up on every detail. You should see who responds to these questions when they come back.

and of course, you may ask me whatever questions about what I have said that you deem relevant



like that?
Umasi
Profile Joined October 2012
United States1399 Posts
September 04 2013 05:23 GMT
#236
##UNVOTE HOLYFLARE

Do you think what I did was bad play? you can go to bed and address this when you wake up/whenever you want, I'm going to do homework.
tbth, this entire thing is pro-town since people will be able to talk about it, and it gives me more to go off of concerning you (and the people who comment about it), and possibly you more to go off of (regarding me and the people who comment), assuming you're town. If you're scum w.e.

For everyone, just a psa about me
I normally keep the person I think is the scummiest as my vote target, but since there are quite a few people I'm leery of, it rests on no one for now.
"Sir, we finally have enough corpses to serve as a ramp for your horse." "THEN LET THE REAPING BEGIN!!"
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
September 04 2013 05:30 GMT
#237
On September 04 2013 14:22 Holyflare wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2013 14:21 killerdog wrote:
One very last thing, Umasi and Holyflare, if you don't resolve this within a page or two, just drop it. Everyone has noticed that Holyflare said two things which appear to go against each other a bit, but you two are by far the most vocal people so far in the thread, both of you have said a ton of things already, and this argument is just stalling the discussion now.

Having the two most vocal people crash into each other immediately just means that the other 10 players can get away with not saying anything SUPER easily, and the aim day 1 is to get as much information on as many people as possible. It's been noted that Umasi has been tunelling hard on Holyflare, and it's been noted that Holyflare has mentioned several other topics of discussion which have been brought up in the meantime.

I doubt Holyflare is going to suddenly crack at this point, and I doubt anything Holyflare says will fully satisfy Umasi. By all means try and settle this if you can, but I feel it would be much more pro town to note down that this happened, maybe revisit it at a later date, and focus on getting as many people to talk about as many things as possible.

It just feels like all potential discussion topics (including the questioning of velocity) was brought in the last few pages have ended up being ignored because of this really early vote call/interrogation.



Show nested quote +
On September 04 2013 13:51 Holyflare wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 04 2013 13:38 Blurry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2013 13:24 Lord Velocity wrote:
Well because I scimmed over the posts and why wouldn't I address things concerning me? I'm not trying to have a misslynch day 1 and give scum a one up, but in no way was I saying "He's pro town" I was simply stating that your logic made sense, but:

Strongest town read: Nobody so far because I don't think we've heard from everybody? so I can't really base it off of like, the 5 people that actually talked and not about the day 1 lynch thing.

Strongest Scum read: Umasi due to his fast vote on Holyflare and his super aggressive early play.


Two things:

Scum read in retaliation to him questioning you is pretty suspicious. You aren't helping your case with that, especially because your analysis is flawed.

Aggression at the start is in no way indicative of scum, and if anything, is more a town indicator than anything, especially when he is leading the charge against a player.

It is really risky for scum to be so direct because it draws so much attention to them. Umasi is probably my biggest town read for that reason right now.



Aggression is one thing but tunnelling is a whole different matter. Read Umasi's 2nd page and notice how every post towards me jumps to something new without addressing my last answer. Also notice how he ignores the posts around my post that lead to my the things he is criticising and then uses them as reasoning for his vote. That is dangerous town/bad behaviour that you shouldn't necessarily attribute to townies.

The constant criticism of one player always shuts the door on other players who are sitting back and watching things happen. Killerdog brings up some excellent points about other players that we should all be addressing. However, as they are most likely not around for now we can't do that. As lord vel is the only one that people had substantial queries towards who is still around you should also be pressing him and leaving questions for the people that aren't here to catch up on later. Especially as scum seem to skip over threads because they aren't scumhunting compared to the town that want to catch up on every detail. You should see who responds to these questions when they come back.

and of course, you may ask me whatever questions about what I have said that you deem relevant



like that?


Ok, my post might have been slightly more directed at Umasi then at you, although I did note that you were trying to bring up/participating in other topics (whether that's deflecting or trying to get town back on track I don't know, but it's potentially useful knowledge.) I feel like Umasi had a valid reason for pressuring you, and while it hasn't fully been resolved, (it feels like you're arguing past each other a bit) some things have been said which might be useful later on which otherwise might not have, it just feels like nothing is coming out of it anymore.
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
September 04 2013 05:31 GMT
#238
ok gone for realisies now.
heavenz
Profile Joined August 2013
Austria301 Posts
September 04 2013 06:26 GMT
#239
Umasi, is very aggressive, which is a townlike nature, but beeing aggressive on the first day with everyone just getting into isn't a big feat, so that reduces my town read of him at the moment, at least he called me out for my opening post, which was indeed worthless, and thought to be just a bit of a discussion starter before I went to bed (I didn't think the game would actually start yesterday).

However Pharcyd3 also jumped on me with 1 post, 1 line, calling me out and then leaving the thread. At least equally scummy to my opening post, even more so that he just followed Umasi. There need to come more indeed.

Lord Velocity, I don't have to quote here much as every post says: he doesn't like to get attention and tries to behave neutral / hide

Holyflare is just doing his thing, posting much, but the content is mostly contentless. As he said himself, he is holding back his informations.

Blurry good townread opening posts, focussing on the discussion.

Chairman Ray, suspicious, or just weird?

Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now.
What is this about...

Killerdog, started out with a strong town post, but then just keept summing Umasi's and Holyf.'s conversation up. I want to have more than you just repeating and summing up the last 5 posts.

most Scum: Lord Velocity, Pharcyd3, Chairman Ray, Holyflare (until he stops holding back, which I assume will be on day 1, then we'll see.)
most Town: Blurry, Killerdog, Umasi
LoneMeow
Profile Joined June 2013
Finland1396 Posts
September 04 2013 06:56 GMT
#240
My feel is that the Holyflare/Umasi argument is town on town, in my experience all huge D1 fights have been that way.

I'm extremely interested in hearing from Pharcyd3 who has definitely been here but only posted a worthless oneliner and Lord Velocity who has posted but seems to be low on actual content.

Umasi, if you completely forget HolyFlare for a moment, who would you prefer to lynch right now?
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