EPTVOTECOUNT!
Holyflare (0) -
Not Voting: Everyone
Newbie Mini Mafia XLVII - Page 13
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DarthPunk
Australia10855 Posts
VOTECOUNT! Holyflare (0) - Not Voting: Everyone | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
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heavenz
Austria301 Posts
Infis from what I' ve read last game, and from what he said pre game hasn't have much time but will must likly come out with a huge post at one point. Not sure how I can judge that then. myrzeth hasn't said a single thing besides /in. I would like to hear more from you, LoneMeow, what do you think about the remaining players, aside of Umasi / Holyf. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
On September 04 2013 20:14 heavenz wrote: I would like to hear more from you, LoneMeow, what do you think about the remaining players, aside of Umasi / Holyf. Most are pretty null to me so far, if I had to choose someone besides the obvious lurkers I'd probably want to lynch Lord Velocity, as he's been active but not really producing useful content. Also he went really defensive after a light FoS from a couple of players. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
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heavenz
Austria301 Posts
That's more town than the most right now. Yes it could be fake, but in my book his action are town. | ||
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Lord Velocity
84 Posts
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Lord Velocity
84 Posts
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heavenz
Austria301 Posts
I agree with you too, we should hear more opinions. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
heavenz: On September 04 2013 15:26 heavenz wrote: Umasi, is very aggressive, which is a townlike nature, but beeing aggressive on the first day with everyone just getting into isn't a big feat, so that reduces my town read of him at the moment, at least he called me out for my opening post, which was indeed worthless, and thought to be just a bit of a discussion starter before I went to bed (I didn't think the game would actually start yesterday). Considering the fact that the discussion about yes/no-lynch on D1 was already going on for about 1 hour at the time you posted this, why did you go ahead and claim it to be 'a bit of a discussion starter' with your second post? myrzeth: On August 24 2013 23:12 myRZeth wrote: /in Yup... we need to hear more from you merzeth. What is your opinion on lynching the most inactive player on Day1? Pharcyd: On September 04 2013 09:44 Pharcyd3 wrote: Heavenz post was extremely bizarre. I'm not sure what that post accomplishes but to make people distrust you His only post, though he stated before that he would have plenty of time to keep up with the thread. So why not also contribute to the discussion? Chairman Ray: On September 04 2013 08:16 Chairman Ray wrote: A lynch on day 1 incentivizes people to avoid being the scummiest looking player since that player WILL be lynched A possible no lynch on day 1 doesn't achieve this incentive since unless you completely crumble and blurt our something incriminating, then you don't get lynched So under the first case, as long as every genuine townsperson is being very active and contributing, then mafia is forced to do the same. Even if we lynch a town on the first day, we're still on a good start. If not every genuine townsperson is active or contributing, lynching them isn't a big loss. Took part in the early discussion about Day1 lynch with 2 posts saying the exact same thing. Also I disagree a bit with you here, because you don't have to actually execute the lynch to get people talking. A lynch threat is more than enough. Don’t you think lynching a less active townmember early on is a loss? Because they could still improve on Day 2 for example. Ok basically everyone listed above should step up and contribute to the discussion. You can start by answering my questions. On another note: On September 04 2013 14:23 Umasi wrote: ##UNVOTE HOLYFLARE Do you think what I did was bad play? you can go to bed and address this when you wake up/whenever you want, I'm going to do homework. tbth, this entire thing is pro-town since people will be able to talk about it, and it gives me more to go off of concerning you (and the people who comment about it), and possibly you more to go off of (regarding me and the people who comment), assuming you're town. If you're scum w.e. For everyone, just a psa about me I normally keep the person I think is the scummiest as my vote target, but since there are quite a few people I'm leery of, it rests on no one for now. Don’t you think the effect of a lynch threat will be reduced when you always have someone voted? If you want other players to know who you are targetting just write it in this thread for everyone to see. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On September 04 2013 13:24 Lord Velocity wrote: Well because I scimmed over the posts and why wouldn't I address things concerning me? I'm not trying to have a misslynch day 1 and give scum a one up, but in no way was I saying "He's pro town" I was simply stating that your logic made sense, but: Strongest town read: Nobody so far because I don't think we've heard from everybody? so I can't really base it off of like, the 5 people that actually talked and not about the day 1 lynch thing. Strongest Scum read: Umasi due to his fast vote on Holyflare and his super aggressive early play. You shouldn't be skimming over the posts in the thread. Being defensive about yourself is why people think what you are doing is scummy. If you want to have suspicion cast off of you you need to provide some good reasons on why other people are more worthy lynch candidates than yourself. You can use the quote button on peoples posts to quote what they have said and then ask questions. The easiest way to shift the limelight off you is to analyse inconsistencies, evaluate where people stand and discuss what you think doesn't make sense. On September 04 2013 23:02 Lord Velocity wrote: A lot of people have also seemed to jump on the "Umasi Holy pro town Velocity scum" but nobody has even thought that it could be just shitty town. And nobody has thought of if the "pro town" moves are just good mafia. I think I shoulndn't be lynched and we should hear from more people about reads on everybody before we misslynch and end up having no reads. Please. I do'nt think I'm suspicious, I answered one question and got words put in my mouth by Umasi so I think that could have something to my "suspiciousness" But think of it how you will. I don't think I should be the one to die though. I'm going to school, so I might post from there. Bye/brb Everyone is thinking it is shitty town, people just are suspicious of you so when they use the word 'scum' they actually mean they have inclinations to suspect that you are scum not that you ARE. The only way to disprove this is to do what I said above. The whole point of day 1 is to eliminate the people that are the least pro town of them all so people that contribute enough should be safe compared to the people that post 1 or 2 lines about defending themself with no other alternatives given. If you want to have suspicion off you re-read the game so far and then tell me what sticks out the most to you. Quote people that haven't said much or something that is suspicious and get them to explain themselves. | ||
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infii
Germany153 Posts
On September 05 2013 00:14 LoneMeow wrote: Infii, since you're around, who do you think is most scummy so far and why? I see you read and analyzed filters but I don't see any conclusions from those. Still too early for conclusions. The only thing I find noteworthy until now is Umasi's kinda-agressiveness and twisting words in others mouths, seems a bit scummy. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On September 04 2013 14:23 Umasi wrote: ##UNVOTE HOLYFLARE Do you think what I did was bad play? you can go to bed and address this when you wake up/whenever you want, I'm going to do homework. tbth, this entire thing is pro-town since people will be able to talk about it, and it gives me more to go off of concerning you (and the people who comment about it), and possibly you more to go off of (regarding me and the people who comment), assuming you're town. If you're scum w.e. For everyone, just a psa about me I normally keep the person I think is the scummiest as my vote target, but since there are quite a few people I'm leery of, it rests on no one for now. I don't think pressuring him was bad play, and we certainly have a lot of information that we otherwise would not have, it's given a lot of posts from both you and holyflare which might be useful later on, and there is also valuable information in who chimed in, and who avoided/stayed out of the discussion altogether. I agree that holyflare said a few things which could be interpreted as being contradictory, and pressuring people for contradictions is always good, but I just felt you had started "tunnelling" (to use the word loosely) a bit too hard on him given how early in the game it is. The two of you are probably my strongest town reads based off of how independent and active you've both been and both of you have brought up several topics/ideas which I thought were pretty pro town moves. The reason I interjected was because, with you two being the two most active and vocal people so far in terms of steering and provoking discussion, I was hoping to give either of you the chance leave a few questions for/give your reads on the other, quieter, players in the game, to force them to speak up. My fear was if I didn't interject, the two of you would keep arguing (to keep overusing the term) "past" each other without any new information coming up, and then when one of you left the other would go quiet and noone would say anything forcing others to speak up until tomorrow when you get back into the thread. Unfortunately my post seemed to just cause that to happen, so maybe I butted in too early. I agree the pressure was pro town, but I just felt it was dragging on a bit without anything new happening, and it drew attention away from the inactivity/non productive posts of some other players who went relatively unchallenged, and got through yesterday without actually having to defend themselves. With 48 hour days, and players being in different timezones, I see each player as having two "windows" of time each game-day where they can be reasonably expected to respond to allegations/questions, and allowing the discussion to become too focussed on one person allows all the other players to get away with doing nothing for one of these "windows." Gonna read through the new posts now and post my thoughts after. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
On September 04 2013 23:36 infii wrote: Chairman Ray: Took part in the early discussion about Day1 lynch with 2 posts saying the exact same thing. Also I disagree a bit with you here, because you don't have to actually execute the lynch to get people talking. A lynch threat is more than enough. Don’t you think lynching a less active townmember early on is a loss? Because they could still improve on Day 2 for example. Since there's already been a few people suggesting they would rather no lynch than risk killing a quiet townie, then I'm gonna go ahead and say it: yes, there's a possibility of voting no lynch on first day. We threaten to lynch on the first day, and in the back of our minds we think about the option of no lynch. However the threat of a first day lynch no longer is a threat if people say it's just going to be a threat. By vocalizing that it's just a threat and we're actually allowing quiet people to live the first day, then the mafia will know that they have that option. So what we're all supposed to do is pretend that lynch is mandatory until the very end to make people think they need to talk, and then at the very end, we decide what's best. Now that this info is out there, I think we should actually do mandatory lynch. myRZeth has not said anything yet, and if that keeps up, then I will definitely be voting him. Who's in agreement? | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
On September 05 2013 03:32 Chairman Ray wrote: Now that this info is out there, I think we should actually do mandatory lynch. myRZeth has not said anything yet, and if that keeps up, then I will definitely be voting him. Who's in agreement? If he never says anything, that's modkill territory and lynching him is pointless. If he does come up at the last moment just to drop his vote to avoid modkill, he'll die D2. Lynching a zero-post guy is pointless. Much rather lynch someone who's clearly in the game but lurking, because that's where scum is most often found. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
Chairman Ray, ignoring myRZeth who hasn't posted even once, who do you think is scum and why? And what do you think about the Umasi/HolyFlare argument? | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
umasi -He was one of my original town reads, and hasn't been afraid of the limelight/stepping on peoples toes. I really liked his first post in that he pointed out that making "i am new" posts just serves to give people more ammunition to throw suspicion on random people, and potentially saved us from being in a situation where 4-5 people read really scummy just off their first post, which could have derailed town a lot and let mafia with decent first posts hide easily.) He was vocal about wanting to move on from the lynch/nolynch debate (which seems fair) and he put the original pressure on velocity. But then decided to pounce on holyflare. Whether that was a good decision or not I don't know but he comitted to it pretty hard, other then one post at velocity, he's focussed 100% on holyflare from that point on. He also poked chairman ray for a bit of information earlier on. I still think he's town, but given how willing he was to pressure that hard against holyflare, I would be hesitant to centre any kind of town circle around him. I would much rather have someone more passive/gentle like blurry helping guide the discussion because if we just pressure every mistake too hard, people will get intimidated and afraid of posting, and we risk tunell visioning away from more subtle scummy behaviour. Also worth noting that he and holyflare have played before, where (as far as i can tell) Umasi was scum and Holyflare played a good town town. I don't know if the events of that game have had any effect on the decisions either Umasi or Holyflare have made this game, since they brought it up in their first posts, it might as well be mentioned. infii -Didn't say much of anything yesterday, but thats understandable because timezones. He made a post today basically calling out the people who haven't been posting much, other then that he's one of the first people (other then velocity) to suggest Umasi isn't playing pro town. The only read i've been able to infer (other then the inactives) is that he's a bit suspicious of Umasi/maybe looking to disntance himself from umasi. First he voices a disagreement with Umasi's policy of keeping a vote on his suspect, the says On September 05 2013 00:54 infii wrote: Still too early for conclusions. The only thing I find noteworthy until now is Umasi's kinda-agressiveness and twisting words in others mouths, seems a bit scummy. He hasn't really contributed anything other then that, and it sticks out a bit that pretty much the only thing he's done is knock on other people for not doing enough. on the whole a pretty neutral read so far. heavenz -First post wasn't really anything, I believe he was saying hi before going to bed. His post with his reads is pretty intereseting, and i agree with most of them. I'm interested by the fact he has holyflare on his scum list (although i agree that holy has been being a bit uncooperative) as most people other then umasi seem to have read him as town so far. I've written this before holy's section, so we'll see if i change my mind on holyflare after going through holyflares filter again. Don't have much of a read on him, but he's contributed and seems much townier then some of the people so far. myRzeth -Still hasn't postsed, apparently he's in germany so I would expect him to post, at the latest, this evening. Otherwise he'll need to have a good excuse. Bereft -Not got much on him, he was supportive of blurry's move to just out reads to get things going, and he was also disagreeing with Holyflare when it came to Holyflares decision to withhold his reads. However while Umasi took this as a queue to pounce on holyflare, Bereft seemed pacified by holyflare posting this: On September 04 2013 13:24 Holyflare wrote: I've never said not to talk I just said don't call people scum or announce them as 'reads', do what you just did and it's all good by me. and backed off hard, called for people who haven't psoted yet to post and dissapear. Don't have much of a read on him either way either. Pharcyd3 -By far the most suspicious person so far in my opinion. To reiterate what I said, his one post is just attacking heavenz for his first post, irony of that aside, doing that and then dissapearing is really scummy in my opinion. The reason I'm so suspicious of him is I'm having a hard time visualising a situation where he's town and acts like this. If he's in a hurry and didn't have time to read the thread then randomly throwing accusations at someone without having read the thread yet is either really bad town, or plain scum. If we assume that he wasn't just randomly throwing accusations around without reading the thread fully. If he had time to read the thread, why didn't he have the extra minute or two it would have taken to address any of the topics being discussed, I don't see a townie thinking it's ok to throw suspicions on someone, ignoring the current conversation, then disappear. I also found it interesting that so many people picked up on velocity's post, but so few noticed pharcyd3's. For the record here are the people who posted after pharcyd3's post but didn't mention it until I fingered him in my first post. HolyFlare, Blurry (references velocity), Bereft (references velocity), Umasi (references velocity) Note bereft did say just before i posted On September 04 2013 13:26 Bereft wrote: also infii, killerdog, myrzeth, pharcyd3, where you guys at? so he might have just missed it. HolyFlare -Holyflare seems to be involved in everything, early on he was very much in control of the flow of debate, bringing up sleeping n1, then not being afraid of disagreeing with people. However once Blurry suggested sharing reads he pretty defensive/confrontational. Regardless of his orientation, to me he feels like a rather charismatic player who doesn't want to just scrape by being passive and answering questions, but rather wants to be one fo the people in the driving seat, and that might be why he reacted to blurry taking the initiative like he did. There were three people who stood out to me as pressuring him on his refusal to share reads. -Bereft, who seemed to be satisfied by holyflares response, -Blurry, most of blurry's posts seem to be things holyflare disagreed with, or vice versa -Umasi, who ended up going hard on holyflare. To be honest I'm having a hard time getting any kind of read off of him. He's stated that his style is "asking off the cuff questions about posts" to catch people off guard. Something he's been consistent in doing. He also didn't seem to change his posting style, or go super defensive when umasi voted for him. He's talking alot (most posts of anyone i think) and doing a good job asking questions but the way he reacted to being asked for reads was a bit dereailing and very uncooperative. He hasn't really given any evidence to prove himself town so far. He's talking a ton about the over all "metagame" of mafia, and a lot about mafia tactics in general but basically nothing relevant to this game itself. It takes more then asking other people questions to prove yourself a townie, and refusing to give any analysis on the other players at all, while still expecting people to answer all your questions is asking for a lot. Still very much on the fence about him and I'm starting to regret interrupting Usami when i did. Lord Velocity -Originally I felt people were sort of ganging up on velocity without any real case. He made a first post which didn't say much other then give a "gut feeling" and, true, he was asked for reads by umasi and didn't answer the question before leaving the thread for a while, but considering that pharcyd3 made an at least equally suspicious post 12 minutes later, and that got totally ignored, the number of people putting velocity on their lists seemed a bit high. However after reading his defensive posts, I'm a lot more suspicious of him now. He called scum on Umasi based on On September 04 2013 13:24 Lord Velocity wrote: Strongest Scum read: Umasi due to his fast vote on Holyflare and his super aggressive early play. Which feels a lot like just counter accusations rather then a justified read, just stating what happened rather then saying why you thought the actions were scummy isn't very watertight. This On September 04 2013 23:02 Lord Velocity wrote: I think I shoulndn't be lynched and we should hear from more people about reads on everybody before we misslynch and end up having no reads. school, so I might post from there. Bye/brb Also felt like a bit of an overreaction given the amount of pressure he was under at the time. He might just be a townie who wasn't expecting pressure and overreacted though. Not sure on him, but he's on the scummier end of the spectrum out the the players who have posted more then a paragraph or two. Hopefully he will start volunteering some information himself without any more pressure. Chairman Ray -Hasn't been very active yet, This one post is a huge elephant in the room when it comes to him On September 04 2013 07:53 Chairman Ray wrote: Has everyone got their QT yet? You should have received one by now. The way he phrased it makes it seem unlikely that he's mafia slipping up. As someone else said, he might have been trying to trip up a mafia, or just screwing around, but I would very much like him to go on record saying why he posted this just so it's dealt with and doesn't cause misunderstandings later. Other then that he hasn't said much other encouraging threatening to lynch people which seems logical enough. Not enough content for a read though, hope he posts more tonight. LoneMeow -Hasn't said much content wise, although i do agree with his statement that Umasi/Holyflare argument seems a bit town v town. He seems to have popped in at a time when the thread was relatively inactive, and posed questions to a few people. He hasn't pointed out much which hasn't already been said though. Blurry -As i mentioned in an earlier post, Blurry was disagreeing with holyflare on several points over several different posts. Infact his first 5 posts are all either voicing a differing opinion to holyf, or straight up quoting him and disagreeing. He then brought up the topic of just sharing reads to promote discussion, which holyf refused to do (which then set umasi off.) I don't know if this is one of them trying to distance themselves from the other, or one getting some kind of read off of the other, (or indeed just a side effect of them being two of the more active players during that time period) but as it's pretty much all Blurry has done I feel it's relevant. He's also spared two posts to help explain a few things to velocity, from those two i would say he seems to think velocity is just town who overreacted to a bit of pressure, regardless of why he did it though, I think explaining why he was under suspicion is a pro town move, as mafia would probably want to let him just talk himself into a lynch rather then try and help him. I also liked how he helped move the discussion along on day 1 by calling for reads. One of the townier players imo. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On September 05 2013 03:38 LoneMeow wrote: If he never says anything, that's modkill territory and lynching him is pointless. If he does come up at the last moment just to drop his vote to avoid modkill, he'll die D2. Lynching a zero-post guy is pointless. Much rather lynch someone who's clearly in the game but lurking, because that's where scum is most often found. I agree in that there isn't much point in trying to apply pressure to someone who isn't here. I think everyone is in agreement that unless he has a good excuse/some really good analysis when he does arrive, then he's dead anyway unless he gets modkilled. I'd rather choose someone who hasn't said much *of value* and pressure them a bit. | ||
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LoneMeow
Finland1396 Posts
On September 05 2013 03:48 killerdog wrote: Chairman Ray -Hasn't been very active yet, This one post is a huge elephant in the room when it comes to him The way he phrased it makes it seem unlikely that he's mafia slipping up. As someone else said, he might have been trying to trip up a mafia, or just screwing around, but I would very much like him to go on record saying why he posted this just so it's dealt with and doesn't cause misunderstandings later. Other then that he hasn't said much other encouraging threatening to lynch people which seems logical enough. Not enough content for a read though, hope he posts more tonight. The post you quoted is just pure WIFOM either way; town trying to trip scum, or scum trying to look like town trying to trip scum. I'd prefer to just ignore it, for now. | ||
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