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Monday start is preferable for me, but Thursday isn't too bad.
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What's the problem with the last player in the house being permanent lord? I think that's just something to take into consideration when choosing lynches/nks.
I like the idea of "vote values" for the 2 player houses, though.
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I would like to declare myself Host and call my bannermen to arms.
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name one member of house stark to be elected cohost
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Rickon can be co-host, that works too
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someone please tell me this is starting tonight
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Okay, so here's what happened:
Me, DI, and Solstice all want to be lord, Koshi doesn't. Solstice and DI fight with each other all day, neither wants the other to be lord. DI said Koshi was his second choice, Sol said I was his second choice. Then Koshi randomly says he wants to be lord, but is obstructive about his reasoning. DI and Sol both vote for me.
What doesn't make sense is why Sol voted for me instead of Dandel. AFTER I was elected lord (and it was too late to change that), Solstice PMs me and says that he is "reasonably sure" DI is town, and that he's not sure about me.
Why would you not vote a strong townread for lord over a null read?
Here are the reasons he's given for opposing DI all day: a) He's scared that Dandel would just claim scum and blow our nightactions b) He has a different playstyle c) They're "butting heads" d) He's not serious
NONE of these are valid reasons to not vote someone who you are "reasonably certain" is town. Who cares if we lose nightactions in exchange for confirmed scum? Why does it matter if you're arguing?
He's making up reasons to not vote DI so that we're forced to vote him instead.
##Vote: Solstice
Koshi, why did you propose yourself instead of voting Solstice?
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He said that he was "reasonably sure" you were town, and "dunno yet" about me.
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DI and Koshi, do either of you think that the other one is lying about what happened?
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What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity?
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On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote: What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. Why wouldn't scum act upset and try to get you lynched for this?
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On August 09 2013 01:29 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 01:27 Chromatically wrote:On August 09 2013 01:23 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 09 2013 01:22 Chromatically wrote: What sort of reaction were you hoping for, clarity? If he were town he would be genuinely upset that his plan got ruined (he was, and early plans are crap anyway) If he were scum he would go "dang, you ruined my plan, oh well" Something along those lines. He did the former, obviously. Why wouldn't scum act upset and try to get you lynched for this? If it happened in thread they might. But I think that the people pushing others n0 are likely town so far. ^ Isn't this what SnB did? Out you in thread and push you for it?
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I don't see why everyone wouldn't want to be lord. Everyone is confirmed town to themselves, therefore they're the safest bet. I can only think of a few legitimate reasons why not.
On August 09 2013 03:23 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 03:20 Xatalos wrote:On August 09 2013 02:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok so im REDACTED in SnB's conversation with clarity.
So events happened like this.
I was talking to clarity, and he told me SnB's rolename out of NOWHERE. Ok. So I asked him for his rolename. And he declined giving reasons like, 'scum can bluesnipe rolenames'. Which sounds like crap to me. But whatever. Eventually, I decided to fakeclaim 1 shot rolename alignment check because he wouldnt tell me his rolename. After I said that, he gave it up willingly. I then came back and pm'ed him that the result was that its a fake role name. Fakeclaim. Which means he is scum. He then said something along the lines of 'ok dude' And nothing else. So that makes me think he is town cause he doesnt have an overt reaction. I dunno. Thoughts guys? Hmmm..... Clarity, why did you happily pass along snb's role name if you thought that "scum can bluesnipe rolenames"? This chain of events just seems stupid. As I've said, I thought snb told me he was gonna tell everyone. So your reaction is to tell everyone else before SnB?
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On August 09 2013 03:27 Risen wrote: WTF is with Dandel Ion destroying the thread single-handedly? No one cares that you think your house should be nuked, it's useless filler. No one cares about your inner dialogue, it isn't actually doing anything productive. If it was giving us your thought process, I'd like it, but it isn't. Finally, we have this masterpiece. Like wat? You know something about s0l the rest of us don't? You trying to win the heart of town s0l as his defender? Or do you know he's scum and are trying to shift from him... either way it's a bad look. Dandel Ion is scum.
How is he "destroying the thread"?
How is he trying to "win the heart" of Sol after everyone just said that they were arguing all of N0?
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Xatalos, what do you think of Grack now? He claimed you were tunneling him on N0.
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Solstice PMd me a while ago saying that he would read the thread and explained, so I assumed that he would post here to explain as well. Maybe not? His explanation was that he didn't want DI lord purely because he would claim scum and blow our nightactions.
This ASSUMES that DI is scum, which Sol apparently thinks is very unlikely based on his read. It also assumes that DI would just claim scum N1 in exchange for some nightactions. And even if this did happen, who cares? I would gladly trade a 1-shot HP check and a vigi shot for a confirmed scum.
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Risen too crazy to be mafia
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On August 09 2013 04:10 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 04:07 Risen wrote:On August 09 2013 04:05 Onegu wrote:On August 09 2013 04:01 Risen wrote: So yeah Clarity's interaction with REDACTED makes much more sense to me now. He told REDACTED about snb's role b/c they were scum mates. Clarity_nl is scum. This makes zero sense why not do that in scum qt if both scum, or even bring it up to SnB why not keep it to themselves? Alrighty last post before da beech. I think the PM chain was a scumslip on their part. I think they were supposed to keep it to themselves. I don't think the interaction between Clarity and Oats was supposed to come to light which is why Clarity ended up lying in the PM chain then having to backtrack on it. Clarity probably told Oats the role name, that got revealed because Oats goofed or something, then they had to concoct a story to fit. Way to take the simplest explanation. So I as scum told oats as scum (in a pm, instead of in the qt) that snb shared his rolename. Then, oats, STILL AS SCUM, sent a pm to snb and ACCIDENTALLY told snb that I told him his rolename. What in the flying fuck You think this makes him scum?
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On August 09 2013 00:31 Chromatically wrote: Koshi, why did you propose yourself instead of voting Solstice?
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On August 09 2013 04:26 Acrofales wrote: The Lord Chromatically of Storm's End is continuously sending me useless missives asking me if I am doing something called "roleplaying". He seems insistent that this is not correct behaviour. Are all the Baratheons stupid? Or did you, in your quibbling, manage to elect the dumbest of you all? Really?
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On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote: Right so it went down like this. I asked to be lord. Two of our guys are fairly new, and I was concerned with their ability to use the spot effectively. This left me and Dandel. He and I got into it pretty good arguing about which of us is better suited for the role, and he somehow extracted a scumread on me from it because he thinks he is good and I said I'm better (holy shit I'm misrepresenting his ability!). He also claimed I was clinging to some weak reasons for wanting to be lord. I felt the same about his reasons. We were at an impasse, with neither wanting to vote for the other. We therefore both settled on Chrom. Both of us seemed to agree that Koshi was looking shady in PMs, so I guess it was the most natural outcome all things considered.
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
I pretty much thought that I was better suited. Koshi early on said he was gonna vote for me, but then retracted when he started his own campaign. Chrom preferred Dandel over me because Dandel has easy scum meta. This created an awkward situation. With Dandel refusing to vote me and vice versa, we went to Chrom.
Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read?
As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess).
Look at this from both sides: Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful.
Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions.
Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly?
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On August 09 2013 08:19 Acrofales wrote: Screw paraphrasing. You LITERALLY said:
"I am willing to reconsider my stance if you are willing to tell me the plan."
How am I misrepresenting anything. That means: tell me the plan and I'll leave you alone. Did you expect him to reconsider without knowing the plan? What's your problem with this post?
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Why isn't everyone voting Sol already?
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On August 09 2013 11:21 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:06 Chromatically wrote:On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote: Right so it went down like this. I asked to be lord. Two of our guys are fairly new, and I was concerned with their ability to use the spot effectively. This left me and Dandel. He and I got into it pretty good arguing about which of us is better suited for the role, and he somehow extracted a scumread on me from it because he thinks he is good and I said I'm better (holy shit I'm misrepresenting his ability!). He also claimed I was clinging to some weak reasons for wanting to be lord. I felt the same about his reasons. We were at an impasse, with neither wanting to vote for the other. We therefore both settled on Chrom. Both of us seemed to agree that Koshi was looking shady in PMs, so I guess it was the most natural outcome all things considered.
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
I pretty much thought that I was better suited. Koshi early on said he was gonna vote for me, but then retracted when he started his own campaign. Chrom preferred Dandel over me because Dandel has easy scum meta. This created an awkward situation. With Dandel refusing to vote me and vice versa, we went to Chrom.
Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read? As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess). Look at this from both sides: Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful. Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions. Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly? There is no spin, my lord. My position has been clear and consistent. It's obvious you disagree with it, but I don't see how it makes me scum. Do you believe that I believe that Dandel will out himself as scum if he is scum for any given game without any outside help? If so then my argument holds water. Also, reasonably sure is not totally sure. I said I would consider Dandel for lord once I am totally sure he is town. I saw no reason to do so while there was still any doubt, for the reasons I mentioned. This is ridiculous. You will only consider voting him when you're 100% certain he is town? That will never happen, barring a DT check or something.
I have a very hard time believing that any townie wouldn't vote their strong townread for flimsy reasons like the ones you've said. I'm obviously not the only one that thinks these reasons are weak.
It just makes much more sense from a scum perspective than it does a town perspective like I said earlier (starting off by brushing him off as not serious, then only coming up with the nightaction explanation later after DI was a serious candidate).
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Sorry I've been pretty busy today, tomorrow should be better activity-wise. I will be here for the lynch.
I agree with coordinating KP to shoot lurkers, particularly the plan where we set up an order to shoot in so that we don't waste KP. Tofu would be my preferred shot right now, as he's a total lurker other than a very small contribution with Acro's opening post (something that I disagree with).
As far as the lynch goes, I'm still working on Solstice. Not sure yet. If not, I'd like Grack or Koshi, maybe Kirby or Onegu as a lynch today.
Grack had the really bad opening post, and I don't like how he just made up excuses for Sol.
On August 09 2013 18:50 Grackaroni wrote: I'm willing to forgive s0Lstice's choosing chromatically over Di because he was obviously caught up in an EPEEN measuring contest with DI and I think judging from both Koshi and s0Lstice's reactions to DI, DI was being obnoxious and it made him act irrationally. (not choose DI out of spite, justify it to himself with the possible waste of house power for nothing)
Sol has repeated his thought process several times, and no part of it was ever that he was irrationally mad at DI. If Grack actually thought that this was Sol's reasoning, then he had to consider that Sol was lying, which is a whole other problem that shouldn't result in a town read. I can't see a reason for Grack to totally ignore Sol's explanation and make up his own if he's honestly trying to figure out Sol's alignment.
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On August 10 2013 04:27 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:22 Chromatically wrote:Sorry I've been pretty busy today, tomorrow should be better activity-wise. I will be here for the lynch. I agree with coordinating KP to shoot lurkers, particularly the plan where we set up an order to shoot in so that we don't waste KP. Tofu would be my preferred shot right now, as he's a total lurker other than a very small contribution with Acro's opening post (something that I disagree with). As far as the lynch goes, I'm still working on Solstice. Not sure yet. If not, I'd like Grack or Koshi, maybe Kirby or Onegu as a lynch today. Grack had the really bad opening post, and I don't like how he just made up excuses for Sol. On August 09 2013 18:50 Grackaroni wrote: I'm willing to forgive s0Lstice's choosing chromatically over Di because he was obviously caught up in an EPEEN measuring contest with DI and I think judging from both Koshi and s0Lstice's reactions to DI, DI was being obnoxious and it made him act irrationally. (not choose DI out of spite, justify it to himself with the possible waste of house power for nothing)
Sol has repeated his thought process several times, and no part of it was ever that he was irrationally mad at DI. If Grack actually thought that this was Sol's reasoning, then he had to consider that Sol was lying, which is a whole other problem that shouldn't result in a town read. I can't see a reason for Grack to totally ignore Sol's explanation and make up his own if he's honestly trying to figure out Sol's alignment. meh it seems like something I would do. DI described s0lstice as getting into a hissy. I've determined from the posts that DI was likely being rather obnoxious n0. Also I didn't say it was a town read, null read, just don't blame him for not voting DI. Sol has made it clear what his reasons were for not voting DI. Why would you invent your own reasons instead of using the ones that Sol actually used? What would your read on Sol be if you were using his stated reasons?
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On August 10 2013 04:39 Koshi wrote: And now I see that Chroma is also fine with killing me. Chroma and DI are just playing the same game but have chosen another member in the house to tunnel / FoS... Are you calling me scum with Dandel?
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On August 10 2013 04:40 Koshi wrote: @ Chroma What is your opinion about DI. You are not allowed to use meta. Town. He's active, pushing his scumreads, and isn't constructing his posts unnaturally.
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On August 10 2013 04:46 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:44 Risen wrote: Just to note, oats was at the top of my scum list earlier. You're far from the only one. Clarity has become even more scummy to me as he has posted more. We are with 2 then... Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:44 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 04:40 Koshi wrote: @ Chroma What is your opinion about DI. You are not allowed to use meta. Town. He's active, pushing his scumreads, and isn't constructing his posts unnaturally. Who are DI his scumreads? You? And Solstice?
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On August 10 2013 04:48 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 04:27 Grackaroni wrote:On August 10 2013 04:22 Chromatically wrote:Sorry I've been pretty busy today, tomorrow should be better activity-wise. I will be here for the lynch. I agree with coordinating KP to shoot lurkers, particularly the plan where we set up an order to shoot in so that we don't waste KP. Tofu would be my preferred shot right now, as he's a total lurker other than a very small contribution with Acro's opening post (something that I disagree with). As far as the lynch goes, I'm still working on Solstice. Not sure yet. If not, I'd like Grack or Koshi, maybe Kirby or Onegu as a lynch today. Grack had the really bad opening post, and I don't like how he just made up excuses for Sol. On August 09 2013 18:50 Grackaroni wrote: I'm willing to forgive s0Lstice's choosing chromatically over Di because he was obviously caught up in an EPEEN measuring contest with DI and I think judging from both Koshi and s0Lstice's reactions to DI, DI was being obnoxious and it made him act irrationally. (not choose DI out of spite, justify it to himself with the possible waste of house power for nothing)
Sol has repeated his thought process several times, and no part of it was ever that he was irrationally mad at DI. If Grack actually thought that this was Sol's reasoning, then he had to consider that Sol was lying, which is a whole other problem that shouldn't result in a town read. I can't see a reason for Grack to totally ignore Sol's explanation and make up his own if he's honestly trying to figure out Sol's alignment. meh it seems like something I would do. DI described s0lstice as getting into a hissy. I've determined from the posts that DI was likely being rather obnoxious n0. Also I didn't say it was a town read, null read, just don't blame him for not voting DI. Sol has made it clear what his reasons were for not voting DI. Why would you invent your own reasons instead of using the ones that Sol actually used? What would your read on Sol be if you were using his stated reasons? I don't think I'm really inventing my own reasons. s0lstice not voting his townread from a scum or town pov = irrational. town it's illogical, scum not a logical move because it makes you look scummy and is so easy to avoid. he clearly was angry at DI. He came out and said that he wouldn't vote DI because if he was somehow scum he would just get caught d1, shoot a townie and waste the check. I read into that a little bit deeper and decided that I thought this was his thought process. "F DI, he's not better than me, if he's scum he's just going to be obv scum and use all our powers, f that I'm voting chrom. You are inventing your own reasons.
Sol has said that he still believes in his reasons and would use them again. He's defended them even though pretty much everyone disagreed with them. It's pretty clear that he wasn't just rage-voting me.
If you think that Sol not voting for his townread is illogical, do you find it scummy? Do you think that town Sol makes regularly makes illogical moves like that?
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On August 10 2013 04:54 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 04:50 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 04:46 Koshi wrote:On August 10 2013 04:44 Risen wrote: Just to note, oats was at the top of my scum list earlier. You're far from the only one. Clarity has become even more scummy to me as he has posted more. We are with 2 then... On August 10 2013 04:44 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 04:40 Koshi wrote: @ Chroma What is your opinion about DI. You are not allowed to use meta. Town. He's active, pushing his scumreads, and isn't constructing his posts unnaturally. Who are DI his scumreads? You? And Solstice? And who are your scumread? Solstice and me.... So boring... What's your point here?
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On August 10 2013 05:19 Grackaroni wrote: @Chromatically, what part of my opening post gave you scum vibes?
On August 08 2013 15:16 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 14:53 iamperfection wrote: Im going to let my black sheep some time in the thread see if he does anything.
I would love to stay and chat but its late
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of waiting to see if I do anything? Hello all, I am the aforementioned "black sheep", My house is Lannister- Xatalos Gumshoe Iamperfection Grackaroni So far Xatalos has been very aggressive and has tunneled both me and Gumshoe. he put lots of effort into a very long mayor post and has been pming a lot more than he had to so by effort alone I think he is town. And he has annoyed the crap out of me and I think generally people who annoy you are town. Gumshoe has seemed to have genuine frustration in his responses to Xatalos' tunnel at the start of the game. (from the excerpts I've seen). he pmed me afterwards recommending me to vote for Iamp and was suspicious of Xata during a time when I would have percieved his actions to be more town-like. I don't think he faked his emotion and am leaning town on him. Iamperfection I am null on. We've talked to each other less than I have talked to anyone else and probably less than he has talked to anybody else as well. He believes that I have been apathetic towards the game but quite frankly I think I've been putting in plenty of effort. I voted him in the early phase of the game because he said he wanted to use the lord's pm's to pressure people for reads. Afterwards I tried to tell Xata and Gumshoe that I was less confident in him and would rather elect somebody else but it was clear that neither was interested in switching. Scum come into the thread unsure of what they should post. This looks like you're trying to find anything that you can to post about, and none of it is concerned with finding scum. Providing some townreads and a null read do nothing to help find scum, and show an interest in "contributing" rather than looking for scum.
I like how you reacted and explained the Sol situation though, so maybe not.
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On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless.
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On August 10 2013 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. It´s everything that happened in his house. Do you give Oats scumread because he said everyone is town in his house and didn´t even explain anything? How can Grack possibly have scumreads if he thinks everyone is town fron N0? What would you suggest he contributes as scumhunting for his first post?
This is Oats' first post:
On August 08 2013 14:35 Oatsmaster wrote: So who is scum so far from the 6 houses? my house seems pretty townie Does that look like a fake contribution to you? Grack's first post was an explanation of useless reads that don't help town. It was trying to look like contribution without actually being any, ie scum.
It's not that there's no scumhunting in his post, because that can depend on what happened in your house. It's that the post is trying to look helpful by providing reads that actually don't help.
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On August 10 2013 05:57 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 05:54 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. It´s everything that happened in his house. Do you give Oats scumread because he said everyone is town in his house and didn´t even explain anything? How can Grack possibly have scumreads if he thinks everyone is town fron N0? What would you suggest he contributes as scumhunting for his first post? This is Oats' first post: On August 08 2013 14:35 Oatsmaster wrote: So who is scum so far from the 6 houses? my house seems pretty townie Does that look like a fake contribution to you? Grack's first post was an explanation of useless reads that don't help town. It was trying to look like contribution without actually being any, ie scum. It's not that there's no scumhunting in his post, because that can depend on what happened in your house. It's that the post is trying to look helpful by providing reads that actually don't help. They absolutely could have helped if Xata was willing to argue with my reads in the thread like I had wanted him to do. But apparently he prefers tunneling in private and then not using any of the responses he gets to influence his reads. Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 15:25 Grackaroni wrote:On August 08 2013 15:21 Xatalos wrote: Are there scummy players in other Houses? Something really interesting that happened during N0 and should be shared? Well why don't we deal with our house first, we have to start somewhere and Iamp has told me he is going to push me for being apathetic and having a lack of interest. I feel like I was spending a lot of effort in my pm's with you. Have i been too apathetic? But instead he chose not to respond to me and then came back in later and said that my post generated no discussion. ( I do think Xata is town, just not particularly pleased with him) So the purpose of your post was trying to get a reaction from Xat by giving him a townread?
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On August 10 2013 05:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 05:54 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. It´s everything that happened in his house. Do you give Oats scumread because he said everyone is town in his house and didn´t even explain anything? How can Grack possibly have scumreads if he thinks everyone is town fron N0? What would you suggest he contributes as scumhunting for his first post? This is Oats' first post: On August 08 2013 14:35 Oatsmaster wrote: So who is scum so far from the 6 houses? my house seems pretty townie Does that look like a fake contribution to you? Grack's first post was an explanation of useless reads that don't help town. It was trying to look like contribution without actually being any, ie scum. It's not that there's no scumhunting in his post, because that can depend on what happened in your house. It's that the post is trying to look helpful by providing reads that actually don't help. Yes, Oats´post was way more scummy to me than Gracks. Why?
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On August 10 2013 05:45 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. I gave what I thought about Iamp in the post and I pressured him in pm's as well, and how many first posts involve scumhunting? What about Koshi makes him your 2nd scum read? Koshi has been posting, but doesn't seem like he cares about the lynch at all. He's halfheartedly pushed Oats, and that's it.
Kirby and Onegu have similar problems, posting without caring about the lynch and not contributing.
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On August 10 2013 06:11 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:09 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:45 Grackaroni wrote:On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. I gave what I thought about Iamp in the post and I pressured him in pm's as well, and how many first posts involve scumhunting? What about Koshi makes him your 2nd scum read? Koshi has been posting, but doesn't seem like he cares about the lynch at all. He's halfheartedly pushed Oats, and that's it. Kirby and Onegu have similar problems, posting without caring about the lynch and not contributing. And why choose me as your first target for defending s0lstice, when I have shown at least to some extent that I do care about the lynch? Because of your bad first post and weird Solstice defense. It also got a reaction from you that I liked.
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On August 10 2013 06:22 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:14 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 06:11 Grackaroni wrote:On August 10 2013 06:09 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:45 Grackaroni wrote:On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. I gave what I thought about Iamp in the post and I pressured him in pm's as well, and how many first posts involve scumhunting? What about Koshi makes him your 2nd scum read? Koshi has been posting, but doesn't seem like he cares about the lynch at all. He's halfheartedly pushed Oats, and that's it. Kirby and Onegu have similar problems, posting without caring about the lynch and not contributing. And why choose me as your first target for defending s0lstice, when I have shown at least to some extent that I do care about the lynch? Because of your bad first post and weird Solstice defense. It also got a reaction from you that I liked. But my first post wan't really bad and I don't get how the s0lstice defense makes me mafia. I did put in the effort to have a go at making a case on kirby even though it got shot down. That didn't get factored into your read of me? The order of your suspicions are important to me, because right now I think that Koshi looks a lot better than Kirby or Onegu, and oftentimes I believe scum like to call out other scum in their posts and place them in a group of people they would consider lynching and then choose townies to be slightly more scummy. That way later on they can point out that they were suspicious of the scum. I don't agree with you thinking me or Koshi is more suspicious than onegu/kirby right now. Your first post was bad, I'd consider it the scummiest first post in the thread, and the Sol defense didn't make sense from a town POV until you explained it. I did factor your Kirby case in.
I'm not convinced on any of them. Why do you think that Koshi looks better?
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On August 10 2013 06:35 Risen wrote: The only lynch targets I will support: Clarity, Oats, Grack. People who should be shot: FT, Nacho, and whoever doesn't get lynched. Why would you lynch Grack?
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I'm going to be in a car for a few hours, I'll make a decision then.
##Unvote
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I was kind of assuming that we were going to vig shoot Tofu because he's pretty much a complete inactive, but I definitely don't have a problem with lynching him.
On August 08 2013 18:15 Onegu wrote: He seems like he was made a scapegoat, just seems odd that someone just out of newbies is a house lord. Onegu, what did you mean by "scapegoat" here?
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13-17 EDT works well for me
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Anyway ##Vote: FirmTofu
I wouldn't really be able to push an Onegu lynch now even if I really wanted to, Tofu was top of my KP list but he's a good lynch too.
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Onegu who's your number 1 lynch right now?
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You have a townread on Tofu?
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Reasoning would help with that.
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Did everyone shoot gumshoe? I did.
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And how did Risen get elected?
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On August 11 2013 14:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey someone's house doesnt have a lord.
What does this mean?
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On August 11 2013 14:24 Onegu wrote: @chrome did no one put themselves up for lord? Or did everyone and it just came to you again? Solstice and Dandel didn't run, and they were both fine with me.
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What did you think was the town benefit of saying that?
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I don't see any reason to not lynch yamato here, he's been mostly arguing with people over dumb things and hasn't been trying to find scum. No reason not to believe the red check given the unlikeliness he was framed.
##Vote: yamato
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rayn why did you believe Onegu's claim so easily?
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When asked who your other scumreads were:
On August 12 2013 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don´t think yamato is town, and all my scumreads basically claimed blue.. implying that Onegu is no longer a scumread, right?
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On August 12 2013 02:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 02:09 Chromatically wrote:When asked who your other scumreads were: On August 12 2013 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don´t think yamato is town, and all my scumreads basically claimed blue.. implying that Onegu is no longer a scumread, right? What´s the point of telling a list of names when i am pretty sure yamato is scum? I don't care that you didn't give a list of names, you could have just said "my other scumreads don't matter right now because yamato". You saying "all my scumreads claimed blue" implies that they are no longer your scumreads.
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Here is the conversation:
On August 12 2013 00:33 Oatsmaster wrote: I mean rayn, you must have other scumreads too right? If you think yamato is town, then you would want to kill someone else.
On August 12 2013 00:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don´t think yamato is town, and all my scumreads basically claimed blue.. Oats asks who else you want to kill, and you reply that your scumreads claimed blue. Implying that they are no longer your scumreads. Correct?
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On August 12 2013 02:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: ehh.. Oats sais "if you think yamato is town, you must want to kill someone else". I replied "i do not think yamato is town, i don´t want to kill the blue claims right now".
Correct?
On August 12 2013 02:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: But you are right that Oberyn is really likely town, so is Sharrant. Onegu is aswell, to some extent. What are you trying to say? Hmm, okay. I was wondering why you said that you didn't believe the claims when it sounded like you did. What caused your read on Onegu to change?
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On August 12 2013 03:46 Koshi wrote: Yamato red check is quite damning and should be enough evidence to get him lynched today. Yamato being either miller or being framed is unlikely. If this is the case then this is bad luck. Not lynching yamato is bad play. yeah I have a sneaking suspicion about yamato
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On August 12 2013 04:03 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 03:51 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 12 2013 03:46 Koshi wrote: I am back. I had soccer and couldn't post till now. I tried to make posts on my phone but it kept saying "Bad Request". I don't know how to fix it. I tried closing my browser, shutting down phone, reconnecting to the internet. Nothing.
Only Gumshoe dieing is strange. I can't believe scum hitted him when they knew Lords were going to kill him. This leaves 2 options: Scum knew gum had only 1 hp left or there is an SK that wanted to hide in that kill (I tried that in Sicilian). If the first is true than there is a mole in the Lanister House. iamp saying that it is a vigi is just ridiculous, why would a vigi waste a shot on a target that is going to die anyway? I don't think grack+iamp is scum though, because if they were they should just have kept their mouths shut, and just kill one of their members to keep their House under control and nobody would even find out about the HP check.
Mr.X seems like a trustworthy person for Oberyn, otherwise I see no reason why Oberyn hasn't said his name yet. It's a bit unlucky that both Onegu and Mr.X visited Xatalos, otherwise people not dieing could be seen as a successful safe on Xatalos instead of one of the visitors must be scum.
Yamato red check is quite damning and should be enough evidence to get him lynched today. Yamato being either miller or being framed is unlikely. If this is the case then this is bad luck. Not lynching yamato is bad play. Why is this unlucky? With only Gumshoe dieing we can safely assume that scum tried to kill Xatalos right? Well, it is not 100% certain but chances are high. So most likely both visitors wanted to safe Xatalos instead of killing him? But that is just theorycrafting. Why would scum shooting Xat mean that the second visitor was trying to protect him?
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On August 12 2013 07:29 Ace wrote:
Did chromatically know about yamato being checked when he told you he would likely be lynched the next day?
I did not. He wasn't doing anything and he was under pressure for it, so I assumed he would either a) shape up and not be a good shot anyway or b) not shape up and be scum.
Also:
On August 12 2013 05:24 Clarity_nl wrote:
Also, chromatticaly has been posting consistently this game, so why don't I remember anything about him. Just read his filter and while glancing it looks townie, if I go through his filter and note all the reads he has the list is rather short. If there's anything in particular you'd like to know, you can just ask. I don't want to just give out reads for no reason when we're not lynching them.
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On August 12 2013 22:35 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:27 Acrofales wrote:On August 12 2013 22:21 Clarity_nl wrote: Acro why do you say one of the two has to be scum in reply to me, and then you call it "pointless wifom" in the following post? I never say that. I suggest you reread the notules of what I said. In my reply to you I am explaining how I think you're wrong about Blackfyres having balls of steel and go through the possibilities. I never reached any conclusions, because we actually need some confirmation about which situation we're in: SnB or Vivax can still be the cause for Xatalos getting locked in, and there's a pretty good chance they are Blackfyre scum (one, or both). Lord knows what their profession is, but it's possible one is a jailer. What I absolutely DON'T think is that we can just conclude Oberyn and Onegu are loyal from this, because it seems farfetched that IF Xatalos was locked in by a Blackfyre and they did not know about the plot, I believe they 100% WOULD have claimed. I disagree. Me and xata came to the conclusion that unless the jailkeeper claim came from someone already thought to be town, we would end up lynching him. The way oberyn refused to give the 2nd name made it plausible for it to be a fakeclaim. I'd take the gamble as scum. Anyway, if we go with your conclusion, then our lynchpool tomorrow would look like this: snb vivax onegu oberyn + whoever didn't post between the fakeclaim and the confession of said fakeclaim (surely its more people than just snb and vivax?) That said, vivax spent a lot of time with me in pms n1 trying to convince me yamato is scum, so I think he's town. Oberyn, if scum, has played an amazing scumgame. Look at my interaction with him d1. So I think he's town That leaves onegu and snb, and I'm okay with that at this point, even if we came to the list with a conclusion I disagree with. Refreshing before I post: jkirby and koshi didn't post in that window according to onegu. I don't really like a koshi lynch but jkirby is definitely and option too. I think it's unlikely that scum wouldn't claim. Oberyn not revealing both names made perfect sense from the watcher standpoint, and there would be ways to make a JK claim believable, especially with the free day that lynching yamato gives.
Which means that there's probably scum in that group, and it's probably Onegu.
Since no one's brought it up yet, let's talk about what Onegu did around the FT lynch:
On August 10 2013 12:25 Onegu wrote: Ok caught up, my thoughts on Firmtofu. Out of my seven games I have played 5 with tofu and he was town in all of them, never once has he asked about others thoughts before giving his own that was the first thing, also he is normally more active than this. His responses to cases against him arent that strong either.
Second reign case on me, SnB asked me my thoughts on S0L and FT and there wasnt much to go on so I said we need more info, I wasnt just posting random shit. Also again I am disabled and have a disabled child so sometimes I will be very active as I have nothing else to do, but others I will be at a hospital or on medicine and not post much.
Koshi looks scummy to me also, I will filter dive him now and bring up the points I found.
Also I was the main reason oberyn was elected, I thought he was Prome smurf so I straight up told him I would vote him, I also told jrkirby this. I later found out he isnt prome, but I had many discussions with him before voteing and found him the best choice.
Do we know when a house has used thier HP check? Or if I become lord can I find out if we still have it. Thinking about this maybe we shouldnt elect the same lord because if they are scum and use the HP check and we continue to elect them lord we will never find out if they used it or still have it.
I also like the split lord kp on 2 targets. Onegu comes back to the thread and softly encourages the FT wagon without actually calling FT scum. He's not associating himself by supporting the mislynch, but he doesn't want to actually derail it.
On August 10 2013 13:06 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 19:47 Koshi wrote: @ Oats. Tell me why you have townreads on your house. Don't use names but you can at least tell us WHY they are town. It's impossible to actually know if somebody is town in your house. At this point I think Oats his house is filled with scum only. Why write this? What makes them all scum and why call out oats about haveing town reads on people. Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 20:05 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:59 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 08 2013 19:54 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Oats, we just played in Titanic and you come in this thread and say that you know that everybody in your house is town and that you will protect their identity? You must be really REALLY confident in this game. You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Um what? My reads were mostly right in Titanic. 1 wrong read. whatever. I only prevent you from knowing who I can contact through pms. All this other stuff is really weird. I didnt get elected. I meant how the person in your house got elected. Your first scumread in Titanic was on a town that you pushed till the end. Then you found a "townslip" on an actual scum that we suspected and managed to get that scum enough towncred so he didn't get lynched day 1. Now in this game you say that your entire house is town and that we should just trust you on it. That's hilarious. I think sharing townreads is kinda useless. It makes it easier for scum to choose a nk and giving townreads is easy for scum. Treat it like a regular game with pms, scumhunt in the thread, scumhunt in pms or share reads with people you're fairly sure are town, only bring up pms in the thread if you got a really strong scumread on someone because of it. Ok I agree. But at this point we are not doing normal scumhunting. Everybody is discussing the houses while we are not allowed to mention the members in the houses. At this point we can't do any scumhunting at all. So you agree we shouldnt share townreads, but you just got finished calling out oats for not giving his townreads? Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 23:17 Koshi wrote: -Dandel told me that s0lstice was either a retard or a scum in 1 message -I replied to him that s0lstice was nice to me and that there was no reason to believe he was either retarded or scum. I also said that s0llstice actually was a good leader and unlike DI that just wanted to kill Kush "because" -Which DI answered to "it's not because, it's win/win (It clearly was not a joke like he claims now.)
DI told me that s0lstice was scum again 2 hours later: I asked him why and I told him I found s0lstice genuine and without extra agenda. DI replied to me his read on s0ltice and only after that I ran for lord. ______________________________________
1) says the best scumhunter should be lord (Which I thought was s0lstice, I only knew DI from NWM) 1.5) does not vote the best scumhunter, votes the last place he himself stated to share with chrom (this was after all pms) 2) says he and chrom are in similar positions/places (imo yes) 2.5) does not even think about electing chrom but wants himself only because "it's me lol", tries to threaten a no-lord voting because "i (=dandel) cant convince sol to vote with me anyways lololol", so he's basically tried to blackmail me into voting for him (I voted chrom in the end. I just wanted to run because out of 2 equals I should pick myself because chrom might be scum (even though Chrom looks just as good as s0lstice) 3) says he doesn't want to be lord (At first) 3.5) suddenly wants to be lord, utterly unable to explain why (I fucking explained it 10 times) 4) says he won't vote for me because I'm tunneling and won't vote solstice because "there is suspicion on him" (aforementioned oneliner without explanation lol) 4.5) doesn't really fit the numbering thing but this is basically a paradoxon because he's saying he won't listen to me, but won't vote the guy he wanted lord half the phase because I'm suspicious of him. 4.6) If he wasn't listening to me, he wouldn't have listened period, but he's ran straight out of excuses and can't find any. 4.6.1) he probably thought I wouldn't notice because I was tunneling sol apparantly 4.7) at that point i wasn't even tunneling sol, but he didn't care to check that.
Point 4 and below is indeed a bit bad play on my part. But in my gut I just knew that those 2 weren't going to work together and that I should be able to run for Lord. ________________________________________________________ Maybe I took n0 not serious enough for DI. But I had enough bullshit from this guy, he is lying 24/7 and any normal person would descredit him for being Lord after the PMs he sent me. The only question I have is why not just say ok chrome can be lord, why put your name up after saying you didnt want to be lord? Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 01:50 Koshi wrote:On August 10 2013 01:31 s0Lstice wrote: Koshi still looks scummy to me. I just got done talking him out of his big dead red scum read in PMs (Oats) with like 2 lines of text. There's times like this where he really just lacks conviction that makes me think his reads are a pretext. Everybody thinks Oats is town and tells me that with 2 lines of text. I gave up on Oats. If they havent given you a good reason why give up on it? That just doesnt make much sense. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 06:21 Koshi wrote:On August 10 2013 06:09 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:45 Grackaroni wrote:On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. I gave what I thought about Iamp in the post and I pressured him in pm's as well, and how many first posts involve scumhunting? What about Koshi makes him your 2nd scum read? Koshi has been posting, but doesn't seem like he cares about the lynch at all. He's halfheartedly pushed Oats, and that's it. Kirby and Onegu have similar problems, posting without caring about the lynch and not contributing. I have pushed Oats 3 times in this thread, and every time I get laughed at and everybody telling me that Oats is town because of meta. How can you say I half-heartedly pushed Oats? On top of that I can't lynch anybody and my Lord thinks I am scum. Obviously I am not as passionate about the lynch as I normally am. Who are you going to vote on? Because I would love you to go outside our House because I am not scum and s0lstice hasn't done anything scummy except vote for you... You are the only Lord that is actually trying to lynch his own servants. Kill FT, Oats, Kirby or johnnywup. They are all "active" but completely useless, and with Oats or johnnywup you have a good chance to hit scum. But you didnt push him that hard, and give me more reasons than they are completely useless. Then he goes through Koshi's filter and quotes every post he can paint as scummy, even though most of these aren't actually scummy at all. Keep in mind that Koshi was a pretty easy target at the time.
There were quite a few reasons that had already been stated by others to want to lynch Koshi, so why put in so much effort to make an original "contribution" that's far weaker than the other points previously stated?
Onegu makes NO effort at all to push his Koshi case, despite Koshi being his top scumread. He also makes no effort towards derailing the FT lynch. He shows far more interest in night shots than he does in the lynch.
So Onegu: a) refused to take a stance on FT b) put in extra effort to write an original case on Koshi, even though his reasons were mostly not alignment-indicative c) didn't push his case on Koshi at all and showed complete apathy toward the lynch
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Risen can you explain your read on Vivax?
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Risen said in PMs that Vivax was his #1 scumread, but his reasoning was pretty much only "he was noncommittal on FT". Hence why I want him to elaborate,
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On August 12 2013 23:29 Oberyn wrote:
jrkirby told me that he was concerned about the FT lynch and expressed interest in a yamato lynch, refering to him as the scummiest player in the thread.
I think this is particularly interesting, especially given that he said this:
On August 10 2013 09:42 jrkirby wrote: I just checked tofu's filter. Yeah, that guys is always way more active than this. That's not guaranteed scum, but it certainly is a sign. and he made no effort to move the lynch in-thread.
On August 10 2013 06:49 jrkirby wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok, finally caught up again. This thread grew 15 pages while I was reading 10. People I want lynched/shot: 1) s0lstice. He claimed he didn't want to elect DI even though he thought that could easily determine if DI was scum. Enough reason to lynch right here. 2) sharant. I've heard he has a bunch of PM's but I haven't seen them. When he get into the thread he just starts defending Kush out of nowhere. None of it seems that useful and the evidence is largely meta. Kush hasn't been getting that much pressure anyway, so why does he need to defend like this? 3) oatsmaster. He posted a bunch of useless arguing with yamato at the beginning, which would be good if he had started making scumcases by now, but he's mostly given out townreads with the occasional we should lynch X with no real case. 4) Yamato. He is clearly the scummiest guy in our house. He didn't PM me until nearly the end of N0 for me to realize I got his real username wrong, and also was asking oberyn and onegu to vote for him. His arguments with oats just served to lengthen the thread without any real substance, and he hasn't posted any scumreads with substance. There's also this list of 3 likely townies with yamato on the bottom, for association.
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On August 13 2013 02:12 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:49 Chromatically wrote: Risen said in PMs that Vivax was his #1 scumread, but his reasoning was pretty much only "he was noncommittal on FT". Hence why I want him to elaborate, There's really no elaboration. I just feel like his posting indicates that he knows too much. And he was your #1 scumread because of this? But you can't provide any examples?
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Yeah I don't see how this Grack thing is scummy at all.
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On August 13 2013 03:30 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:26 Chromatically wrote: Yeah I don't see how this Grack thing is scummy at all. Do you think there is a mole in the Lannister House? If so is it JrKirby, iamp, or Grack? If there was one, it would be Grack (just by process of elimination), but he's not a priority right now.
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On August 13 2013 03:51 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 03:45 Oberyn wrote:On August 13 2013 03:30 Koshi wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 Chromatically wrote: Yeah I don't see how this Grack thing is scummy at all. Do you think there is a mole in the Lannister House? If so is it JrKirby, iamp, or Grack? Just to clarify, Jrkirby is not a Lannister (And if he is, we've got a nice dungeon cellar for him) Ah yeah. Sorry... Was trying to trap Chrom but that didn't work out well lol...... What was the trap?
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On August 12 2013 18:40 Dandel Ion wrote:Agreed. That's actually why I told chrom to shoot the scum slot last night, so that this could be avoided. At that time I didn't know there was a list On which the hyperlurker wasn't even on. For no discernable reason. I blame the maker of the list. Dandel can you explain why you thought/think Nacho was scum and should be shot above the other semi-lurkers?
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I don't see what the deal is with the Acro/Rayn HP plan thing.
Acro hints at a plan that uses the HP check D1 to rayn rayn doesn't want to use the HP check D1 and says so in-thread rayn says that he won't support the plan unless he knows what it is
So how does rayn come out scummy from this?
On August 13 2013 06:23 Grackaroni wrote: @Acro, I will say in Rayne's defense that he seemed to be genuinely rereading red team's prize to try to improve his read on me and even though he didn't conclude anything from it, it seems rather unnecessary for him to do as scum. Do you think rayn is scum or town? Did you find Acro's case convincing?
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On August 13 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: I never said i am gonna support the plan. I said I will re-evaluate my stance if i hear what the plan is!!! Why the fuck is everyone trying to cast shit on me because of this? Yes. I'm agreeing with you.
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TIL reading the thread is an optional activity
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On August 13 2013 10:17 Chromatically wrote: I don't see what the deal is with the Acro/Rayn HP plan thing.
Acro hints at a plan that uses the HP check D1 to rayn rayn doesn't want to use the HP check D1 and says so in-thread rayn says that he won't support the plan unless he knows what it is
So how does rayn come out scummy from this?
Acro can you explain this?
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On August 13 2013 12:50 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 12:36 Chromatically wrote:On August 13 2013 10:17 Chromatically wrote: I don't see what the deal is with the Acro/Rayn HP plan thing.
Acro hints at a plan that uses the HP check D1 to rayn rayn doesn't want to use the HP check D1 and says so in-thread rayn says that he won't support the plan unless he knows what it is
So how does rayn come out scummy from this?
Acro can you explain this? I have, about a million times. I see no reason to keep posting about this. Tell me what exactly you don't understand about it. Rayn clearly wasn't talking about changing his opinion about the plan. He was talking about changing his opinion about me. I never needed, nor wanted, Rayn's support for the plan, so couldn't give half a fuck whether he would reconsider the plan, and that was definitely not what the conversation was about. He said he would reconsider his stance on me in exchange for information about the plan. My understanding is that rayn disagreed with your idea to use the HP check N1, and called it "anti-town". This is the sentiment that he said he would reconsider if he got more information. Correct?
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Hmm okay, we can discuss it tomorrow.
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We should lynch Risen.
At the start of D2, right after iamp posted his reads list (with Vivax as scum), I PMed Risen to ask him if his scumreads had changed from yesterday. He said that they had, and that Vivax was now his "#1 scumread".
When asked for explanation, his sole reasoning was "he's been giving townreads too easily", which is a fair reason, if a bit weak. I didn't really see it in his filter, however, so I pressed for examples.
The only example he was able to provide was his "townread" on FT.
Here's what Risen showed me:
On August 10 2013 09:42 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 08:49 johnnywup wrote:thats not what i said and i never said its a meaningful contribution but making a list and not knowing which house two people are in doesn't make me look mafia i'm not saying i'm contributing from that post but someone asked for a list and I wanted it put into a post for convenience sake so i made it. it's just something i thought would be nice and people could refer back to if they needed. i don't understand how that makes me look like mafia? Go more in depth about your FT scumread please, you give me the impression you aren't reading the thread properly and only throw in some half-assed scumread to calm down the waters. If you're defensive, town and know it, you could try to change that and actually show some interest into finding out who's scum.
Here's what Vivax also said about FT:
On August 10 2013 09:55 Vivax wrote:He's unusually inactive and I still have some unanswered questions. Seems like another solid lynch, unless he shows up with some bombastic posts before deadline.
There is absolutely, NO town way to misinterpret this. The first post is clearly NOT a townread. The second post, which Risen never brought up, shows that Vivax 100% did NOT have a townread on FT.
So why would town Risen EVER think that Vivax had a townread on FT? He can't possibly. The only explanation is that he's going through Vivax's filter and nitpicking posts that he can frame as scummy instead of actually attempting to divine Vivax's alignment.
So I stated I disagreed, and brought up Onegu and Acro as alternatives, two people who I thought looked worst from how the lynch went down. For reference:
On August 13 2013 01:45 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 12 2013 22:27 Acrofales wrote:On August 12 2013 22:21 Clarity_nl wrote: Acro why do you say one of the two has to be scum in reply to me, and then you call it "pointless wifom" in the following post? I never say that. I suggest you reread the notules of what I said. In my reply to you I am explaining how I think you're wrong about Blackfyres having balls of steel and go through the possibilities. I never reached any conclusions, because we actually need some confirmation about which situation we're in: SnB or Vivax can still be the cause for Xatalos getting locked in, and there's a pretty good chance they are Blackfyre scum (one, or both). Lord knows what their profession is, but it's possible one is a jailer. What I absolutely DON'T think is that we can just conclude Oberyn and Onegu are loyal from this, because it seems farfetched that IF Xatalos was locked in by a Blackfyre and they did not know about the plot, I believe they 100% WOULD have claimed. I disagree. Me and xata came to the conclusion that unless the jailkeeper claim came from someone already thought to be town, we would end up lynching him. The way oberyn refused to give the 2nd name made it plausible for it to be a fakeclaim. I'd take the gamble as scum. Anyway, if we go with your conclusion, then our lynchpool tomorrow would look like this: snb vivax onegu oberyn + whoever didn't post between the fakeclaim and the confession of said fakeclaim (surely its more people than just snb and vivax?) That said, vivax spent a lot of time with me in pms n1 trying to convince me yamato is scum, so I think he's town. Oberyn, if scum, has played an amazing scumgame. Look at my interaction with him d1. So I think he's town That leaves onegu and snb, and I'm okay with that at this point, even if we came to the list with a conclusion I disagree with. Refreshing before I post: jkirby and koshi didn't post in that window according to onegu. I don't really like a koshi lynch but jkirby is definitely and option too. I think it's unlikely that scum wouldn't claim. Oberyn not revealing both names made perfect sense from the watcher standpoint, and there would be ways to make a JK claim believable, especially with the free day that lynching yamato gives. Which means that there's probably scum in that group, and it's probably Onegu. Since no one's brought it up yet, let's talk about what Onegu did around the FT lynch: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 12:25 Onegu wrote: Ok caught up, my thoughts on Firmtofu. Out of my seven games I have played 5 with tofu and he was town in all of them, never once has he asked about others thoughts before giving his own that was the first thing, also he is normally more active than this. His responses to cases against him arent that strong either.
Second reign case on me, SnB asked me my thoughts on S0L and FT and there wasnt much to go on so I said we need more info, I wasnt just posting random shit. Also again I am disabled and have a disabled child so sometimes I will be very active as I have nothing else to do, but others I will be at a hospital or on medicine and not post much.
Koshi looks scummy to me also, I will filter dive him now and bring up the points I found.
Also I was the main reason oberyn was elected, I thought he was Prome smurf so I straight up told him I would vote him, I also told jrkirby this. I later found out he isnt prome, but I had many discussions with him before voteing and found him the best choice.
Do we know when a house has used thier HP check? Or if I become lord can I find out if we still have it. Thinking about this maybe we shouldnt elect the same lord because if they are scum and use the HP check and we continue to elect them lord we will never find out if they used it or still have it.
I also like the split lord kp on 2 targets. Onegu comes back to the thread and softly encourages the FT wagon without actually calling FT scum. He's not associating himself by supporting the mislynch, but he doesn't want to actually derail it. Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 13:06 Onegu wrote:On August 08 2013 19:47 Koshi wrote: @ Oats. Tell me why you have townreads on your house. Don't use names but you can at least tell us WHY they are town. It's impossible to actually know if somebody is town in your house. At this point I think Oats his house is filled with scum only. Why write this? What makes them all scum and why call out oats about haveing town reads on people. On August 08 2013 20:05 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:59 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 08 2013 19:54 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Oats, we just played in Titanic and you come in this thread and say that you know that everybody in your house is town and that you will protect their identity? You must be really REALLY confident in this game. You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Um what? My reads were mostly right in Titanic. 1 wrong read. whatever. I only prevent you from knowing who I can contact through pms. All this other stuff is really weird. I didnt get elected. I meant how the person in your house got elected. Your first scumread in Titanic was on a town that you pushed till the end. Then you found a "townslip" on an actual scum that we suspected and managed to get that scum enough towncred so he didn't get lynched day 1. Now in this game you say that your entire house is town and that we should just trust you on it. That's hilarious. I think sharing townreads is kinda useless. It makes it easier for scum to choose a nk and giving townreads is easy for scum. Treat it like a regular game with pms, scumhunt in the thread, scumhunt in pms or share reads with people you're fairly sure are town, only bring up pms in the thread if you got a really strong scumread on someone because of it. Ok I agree. But at this point we are not doing normal scumhunting. Everybody is discussing the houses while we are not allowed to mention the members in the houses. At this point we can't do any scumhunting at all. So you agree we shouldnt share townreads, but you just got finished calling out oats for not giving his townreads? On August 08 2013 23:17 Koshi wrote: -Dandel told me that s0lstice was either a retard or a scum in 1 message -I replied to him that s0lstice was nice to me and that there was no reason to believe he was either retarded or scum. I also said that s0llstice actually was a good leader and unlike DI that just wanted to kill Kush "because" -Which DI answered to "it's not because, it's win/win (It clearly was not a joke like he claims now.)
DI told me that s0lstice was scum again 2 hours later: I asked him why and I told him I found s0lstice genuine and without extra agenda. DI replied to me his read on s0ltice and only after that I ran for lord. ______________________________________
1) says the best scumhunter should be lord (Which I thought was s0lstice, I only knew DI from NWM) 1.5) does not vote the best scumhunter, votes the last place he himself stated to share with chrom (this was after all pms) 2) says he and chrom are in similar positions/places (imo yes) 2.5) does not even think about electing chrom but wants himself only because "it's me lol", tries to threaten a no-lord voting because "i (=dandel) cant convince sol to vote with me anyways lololol", so he's basically tried to blackmail me into voting for him (I voted chrom in the end. I just wanted to run because out of 2 equals I should pick myself because chrom might be scum (even though Chrom looks just as good as s0lstice) 3) says he doesn't want to be lord (At first) 3.5) suddenly wants to be lord, utterly unable to explain why (I fucking explained it 10 times) 4) says he won't vote for me because I'm tunneling and won't vote solstice because "there is suspicion on him" (aforementioned oneliner without explanation lol) 4.5) doesn't really fit the numbering thing but this is basically a paradoxon because he's saying he won't listen to me, but won't vote the guy he wanted lord half the phase because I'm suspicious of him. 4.6) If he wasn't listening to me, he wouldn't have listened period, but he's ran straight out of excuses and can't find any. 4.6.1) he probably thought I wouldn't notice because I was tunneling sol apparantly 4.7) at that point i wasn't even tunneling sol, but he didn't care to check that.
Point 4 and below is indeed a bit bad play on my part. But in my gut I just knew that those 2 weren't going to work together and that I should be able to run for Lord. ________________________________________________________ Maybe I took n0 not serious enough for DI. But I had enough bullshit from this guy, he is lying 24/7 and any normal person would descredit him for being Lord after the PMs he sent me. The only question I have is why not just say ok chrome can be lord, why put your name up after saying you didnt want to be lord? On August 10 2013 01:50 Koshi wrote:On August 10 2013 01:31 s0Lstice wrote: Koshi still looks scummy to me. I just got done talking him out of his big dead red scum read in PMs (Oats) with like 2 lines of text. There's times like this where he really just lacks conviction that makes me think his reads are a pretext. Everybody thinks Oats is town and tells me that with 2 lines of text. I gave up on Oats. If they havent given you a good reason why give up on it? That just doesnt make much sense. On August 10 2013 06:21 Koshi wrote:On August 10 2013 06:09 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:45 Grackaroni wrote:On August 10 2013 05:38 Chromatically wrote:On August 10 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: I read Crackaroni as the exact opposite compared to Chromatically, based on that post. Why is that a non-contribution Chrom? How is it a contribution? There's no scumhunting and doesn't help town at all. I would expect town to post the part on iamp and try to do some pressure, or jump on something in the thread, but listing your house and giving townreads is useless. I gave what I thought about Iamp in the post and I pressured him in pm's as well, and how many first posts involve scumhunting? What about Koshi makes him your 2nd scum read? Koshi has been posting, but doesn't seem like he cares about the lynch at all. He's halfheartedly pushed Oats, and that's it. Kirby and Onegu have similar problems, posting without caring about the lynch and not contributing. I have pushed Oats 3 times in this thread, and every time I get laughed at and everybody telling me that Oats is town because of meta. How can you say I half-heartedly pushed Oats? On top of that I can't lynch anybody and my Lord thinks I am scum. Obviously I am not as passionate about the lynch as I normally am. Who are you going to vote on? Because I would love you to go outside our House because I am not scum and s0lstice hasn't done anything scummy except vote for you... You are the only Lord that is actually trying to lynch his own servants. Kill FT, Oats, Kirby or johnnywup. They are all "active" but completely useless, and with Oats or johnnywup you have a good chance to hit scum. But you didnt push him that hard, and give me more reasons than they are completely useless. Then he goes through Koshi's filter and quotes every post he can paint as scummy, even though most of these aren't actually scummy at all. Keep in mind that Koshi was a pretty easy target at the time. There were quite a few reasons that had already been stated by others to want to lynch Koshi, so why put in so much effort to make an original "contribution" that's far weaker than the other points previously stated? Onegu makes NO effort at all to push his Koshi case, despite Koshi being his top scumread. He also makes no effort towards derailing the FT lynch. He shows far more interest in night shots than he does in the lynch. So Onegu: a) refused to take a stance on FT b) put in extra effort to write an original case on Koshi, even though his reasons were mostly not alignment-indicative c) didn't push his case on Koshi at all and showed complete apathy toward the lynch Onegu's soft defense of FT and nonexistant pressure on Koshi are clearly scummy, far more so than Vivax's "townread" on FT.
Risen has no comment on this, and does not change his stance.
I press him about it in thread, and he still has no explanation and is unable to find a single other example. He doesn't press Vivax, his #1 scumread, at all in-thread after this. He doesn't even MENTION him, in fact, except when asked by me. If he honestly believed in his logic, why would he back off? The explanation is that he CAN'T press it in-thread because he cannot explain it.
He's also refused to elaborate on his Grack scumread, even after being asked multiple times by me. He's trying to twist everything he can into making Sharrant scum, including his latest post:
On August 15 2013 01:44 Risen wrote: Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait....
Sharrant has... a one shot alignment check, a one shot hp check, and two PMs? Why wouldn't it remain at one if this was a real role? Outside of role speculation which isn't really conclusive ever, have you people looked at this claim?!?!
Is this real life? How is this not the lynch for today?
And holy crapshoot in a barrel filled with chickens and sausage HOW IS HE LORD?!??!
House Tyrell
Kushm4sta johnnywup Sharrant Acrofales
Of the four people in this house they chose the one who has two pages of filter in a game that's now on day 3 who told them he was going to be gone for a large portion?!
... ... ... Attacking Sharrant for being lord makes absolutely no sense, since that is OBVIOUSLY not alignment-indicative.
Also, since some people have been arguing "not using logic doesn't make him scum": - town often uses strong logic - town sometimes uses "crazy logic", that doesn't really make sense unless you look at it a very specific way - scum will use whatever logic they can, including "no logic", where they just make up reads at will - town never uses "no logic"
It's one thing for people to have crazy scumreads. It's another for them to have obviously unjustifiable scumreads, no matter how you look at it.
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On August 14 2013 14:09 Mocsta wrote: Lords.
Tyrell and baratheon are the only full houses left. I suggest we purge there. That way we help maintain lord full house no longevity.
Chromatically from baratheon is my choice. But I am a mere peasant. Explain "purging houses"?
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On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote: Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is. @ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc. No, he specifically said "his town read on FT".
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On August 15 2013 02:18 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2013 02:14 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote: Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is. @ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc. No, he specifically said "his town read on FT". Oh that's from PMs? Well, in thread he talked about a post of mine on Onegu, calling it a soft-defense. Chrom, you had s0lstice as scumread, shouldn't his defense of Sharrant I posted make you suspicious of him, and do you think it's likely that he bussed yammo D1 already? Solstice is town because of PMs, sorry I have to do that but that's really what it is. He's interested in finding scum and has had a townie thought process about it.
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-Risen has ONE reason for his STRONG scumread on Vivax -the reason does NOT apply to Vivax -the reason applies better to others, but Risen has no problem with them
where is the town?
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On August 15 2013 02:42 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:39 Chromatically wrote: -Risen has ONE reason for his STRONG scumread on Vivax -the reason does NOT apply to Vivax -the reason applies better to others, but Risen has no problem with them
where is the town? Perhaps I've moved on to tunneling other people? Why are you so fixated on this? Because it makes zero sense whatsoever from a town perspective?
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On August 15 2013 02:51 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:46 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 02:42 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 02:39 Chromatically wrote: -Risen has ONE reason for his STRONG scumread on Vivax -the reason does NOT apply to Vivax -the reason applies better to others, but Risen has no problem with them
where is the town? Perhaps I've moved on to tunneling other people? Why are you so fixated on this? Because it makes zero sense whatsoever from a town perspective? Why not? I had scum reads, they weren't exactly strong, but they were scum reads. I moved on because I found something else, and now I've moved on because I've once again found something else. The end. The problem isn't changing reads, it's the lack of reasoning behind them.
What do you think about Vivax now?
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On August 15 2013 05:50 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:32 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:27 Risen wrote: ^I don't know what was scummy about my d1 play, please link the case detailing what you thought was scummy to me. Also please explain why my actions d2 and today have been scummy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19495357since then: you've been focusing basically entirely on sharrant. Your initial reasons were mostly bad, and when sharrant answered them you ignored his answers and continued to tunnel him, and me and acro largely because of the connection case with sharrant. it's scummy because your ignoring his answers, and focusing on connections before he flips, make it more likely to be a convenient way to "remain consistent" and have some thread presence without having to actually hunt scum in a meaningful way. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but Sharrant's defense was basically "no scum would do things that I have done". I would, so I don't see why he wouldn't. He followed this with "Oh I covered my ass with Acro in case he was scum by giving him two targets and telling him I was choosing the one I didn't check thereby giving Acro a chance to WIFOM his way to defending the right person". No. A town cop doesn't give him that chance. A town cop with a town read asks Acro about two different people he has no chance of checking, and then asks for that town reads personal opinion. Then he weighs the response and makes his checks very quietly. God... this is all based upon a town cop even asking someone he doesn't have confirmed as town who he should check. NO TOWN COP DOES THIS ARE YOU PEOPLE KIDDING ME!!! Who does that? I have never, ever, ever, ever, EVER seen a cop ask a non cops opinion on who he should check unless they were confirmed town. ESPECIALLY when if Acro were to be scum Shar would just die. He'd be dead, that's it, that's the end of it. It isn't "Oh Sharrant came to the thread after not telling anybody about his one shot and claiming a red check." It's "Sharrant came to the thread after asking another person he hadn't checked who he should check AT NIGHT WHEN HE HAS NO IDEA IF HE'S GOING TO LIVE OR NOT" Who knows they're going to live through the night? SCUM. Shit this doesn't even bring Acro into it as being a scum buddy like my last scenario did. It make Acro look pretty damn bad since how the hell didn't he think of this as town. That's the first fuckin thing I would think of if someone asked me who they should check. I'd be thinking, "Wait a fuckin second, why is a cop asking me this shit at night when I could be scum? Am I about to become Sharrant's town-confirmer while he busses a teammate?" Fuck the WIFOM "bomb" Sharrant is defending himself with. There's no answer he could possibly give that would convince me he was town. Nothing. So if you other lords want to fuckin hang yourselves fine. But I'm done with this. He's so clearly scum it fucking hurts. Fuck my vote on SnB. ##unvote ##vote: SharrantSharrant is a pretty clean and cut scum team member. No one in this thread has scum slipped, so unless someone wants to come into the thread and claim red it's staying there. The end. So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
And you're saying that he's confirmed scum because it would be a bit dumb to claim to an unconfirmed player? That the above scenario is FAR more likely?
On August 15 2013 03:24 Risen wrote:Which question? And as to the nature of the scumslip, Xatalos has been in PMs with me for a while now soft defending Shar. I don't really think anything of it and I'm trying to bring him around to seeing Shar as scum. Nothing truly sticks out, I think he's just trying to gain perspective on me. He then tells me in PM that Shar's claimed 2 PM ability is simply house PMs. House have 3 people. The 2 PM ability isn't house PMs or it would be 3. ggnore And look at this.
REGARDLESS of the nonexistent nature of Sharrant's "ability", how is this EVER a scumslip???
There is nothing scummy at all about Xatalos making a "mistake" like this. There is no way that ANYONE could EVER believe there is. This is NOT a townie thinking he found a scumslip, because this bears no resemblance to an actual scumslip at all. This is scum FAKING finding a scumslip because they can get away with it and think it will give them town points (oh, look).
Risen has done nothing all game except call people scum without any logical thinking whatsoever. This is NOT what town does.
Townies always have SOME semblance of logic behind their posts, regardless of whether it's twisted and wrong. Scum are willing to do whatever they need so they can get the reads that benefit them the most.
Are you actually going to let scum get away with saying random shit that doesn't make sense?
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On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote: [quote]
From iamperfection's last will:
"Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though."
I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: [quote] From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote: rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: "Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered. Also, his was posted when Risen was voting snb. Does this sound like someone talking to their scumread to you?
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On August 15 2013 11:06 Risen wrote: And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try? It doesn't matter? You're saying that scum Sharrant asked for advice on who to check from town Acro when he was always going to check kush? How does that make SO MUCH more sense than what you posted, so that Sharrant is almost confirmed scum?
On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote: yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you. Are you seriously threatening people with the OBS QT??? Really?
And Sol is exactly right about this. If you believed SnB to be scum, you wouldn't give two shits what his "read" was on you, because it was manufactured anyway. The fact that you cared about his read on you means that you thought he was town, while your vote was on him.
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On August 11 2013 22:33 Sharrant wrote: Well, I wasn't quite expecting to be revealed so quickly.
I claimed my role to Acro last night (I'm a one shot alignment cop). I asked him who I should target with it, he said Kush and Yamato. Both players I had in mind originally. In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target Kush.
After I brought up framing he suggested that Kush might be too high profile, and that I should check Koshi or Ace. I think both of those are fairly legitimate suggestions. It seems less likely that Acro is mafia because he was suggesting more people to check that are in positions where a check would be very good.
An alternative is that Acro is mafia, and they have no framer like role, so he wanted to push me off a mafia Kush, but I find this unlikely.
At the end of the day you're left with a red check on Yamato, someone relatively out of the spotlight and not a likely choice for framers. And as I stated, his argumentative nature in this game is quite different from how it is when he's arguing as a town member.
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"When you're saying something and another person says no it didn't happen like that you should very quickly run over your facts and double check them or you end up looking like an idiot in the thread." -Risen
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So Risen, what do you think about Sharrant now?
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That is pretty confusing, the rng rule in the OP is only for when the lord dies.
Mocsta, I would like to hear your other reasons for rayn being scum when you have time.
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Is anyone even reading what I post? Risen is like 100% the best lynch for today, no one has a single comment on it.
Why would town Risen call out the Xatalos "scumslip"? Think about it.
On August 15 2013 03:24 Risen wrote:Which question? And as to the nature of the scumslip, Xatalos has been in PMs with me for a while now soft defending Shar. I don't really think anything of it and I'm trying to bring him around to seeing Shar as scum. Nothing truly sticks out, I think he's just trying to gain perspective on me. He then tells me in PM that Shar's claimed 2 PM ability is simply house PMs. House have 3 people. The 2 PM ability isn't house PMs or it would be 3. ggnore What townie reads this and thinks this is a scumslip? NO ONE. Maybe in a newbie game this is okay, but there is no way anyone who knows how to play this game (as Risen clearly does) would think this is a scumslip.
Which is more likely, town Risen completely forgetting how to play this game, or scum Risen deciding to fake finding a "scumslip" for town cred?
To believe that Risen is town, you'd ALSO have to believe that he tunneled Sharrant for a day without actually reading the post in question that proved him scum. This is NOT town trying to find scum with bad logic. This is scum faking crazy reads to avoid responsibility.
On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote: yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you. And you'd have to believe that town Risen thinks it beneficial to threaten people with the obs qt laughing at them (and by calling them bad) under pressure instead of just explaining himself.
On August 15 2013 05:34 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:28 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote: [quote]
From iamperfection's last will:
"Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though."
I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: [quote] From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. well, its kind of hard to talk to you about my case on you when what i want is for other people to pay attention to it but the last interaction anyone had with me about it was this convo with rayn which he abandoned: On August 13 2013 05:01 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:31 strongandbig wrote:On August 13 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 13 2013 03:22 strongandbig wrote: rayn can you explain why you have a town read on risen?
Do you really think his first reads post could come from scum!Risen? Basically because of that. yes i do and i said why did you read my post? Yes i read your post. First you say Risen is scum for calling out anti-town behavior (Oats/yamato/DI). not for calling out anti-town behavior. For calling people "scum" because they're playing badly as town, not because of actual behaviors that indicate they are scum. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Sounds good. You are also saying he should know their meta. Afaik the guy has had a long break from mafia (correct me if i am wrong here). People (aside me) tend to forget how people play in games, just look at Titanic where i was trying to confirm Oats in a way or another from the game he played a couple of weeks ago. Didn´t work. So calling out anti-town behavior without looking into players last games makes him mafia?
well, if he really had forgotten everything about those players then my "should have known better" point wouldn't be correct. I don't think it's that easy to forget things like "this player gets in fights" or especially to forget dandel ion. but anyway, even if that is the case - there's still the fact that an experienced player would, if they were town, know that townies get in fights and fuck up the thread too, and that spamming doesn't make you scum. Come on rayn, making cases against bad play rather than scum-motivated play is scum 101 and that's what risen was doing here, whether or not he knew anyone's meta. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then there is a connection case. You said townies can do that too. That´s right. Did you check if Risen does that as town? As scum? At least you didn´t tell that in your case. If you are gonna tell Risen is scum for something both town/mafia do, at least provide some evidence.
that's why this was a minor point, it's something that both town and scum do but scum are more likely to do it than townies are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Huge post - makes him scum how? i never said it did, i was trying to explain why it doesn't make him town. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: "Easy reads" for anti town behavior - makes him scum how?
duh. if someone is choosing easy targets and making easy cases against them, it's because that person is not actually trying to find real scum but just trying to look like they are. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: How is Risen´s post "constructed and careful"?
compare it to the entire rest of his filter. he obviously spent more time on that post than on anything else he's done - it's much longer, but also (for example) he uses quotes more (the only place he uses quotes as examples rather than things to respond to). and yet he spends all that effort making terrible, scummy reads. On August 13 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: The only thing that holds water in your post is that he has not explained / pursued his reads. Fuck, a half of the playerbase doesn´t even seem to have reads. If you think Risen´s reads are bad, why don´t you question him on them? Instead you want to hear from people who have been in contact with him?? Why? Why not from him? i want to hear from people who have been in contact with him because maybe he's been putting more effort into his reads and the game outside of the thread. those people can give me information that i can't get from reading his filter. i fully expect him to answer my case but i shouldn't have to ask for it specifically, should i? Well I'm trying to talk to you so you'll change your view on me. Maybe through that interaction other people find me more or less scummy or support your case more or less because they find my answers satisfactory or not. I'd like you to ask me questions and I will answer them, or I'd like you to point me to what needs to be answered. And you'd have to believe that town Risen greatly cares about his scumread's read on him, while Risen is voting him.
As far as SnB/Vivax goes, Vivax lynch is better. Both of them look like they were inactive from real life for D1, but SnB has actually been pushing stuff (and I agree with what he's saying) whereas Vivax is doing a lot of questioning without actually pushing anything, as others have said.
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On August 16 2013 04:19 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:13 Chromatically wrote: What townie reads this and thinks this is a scumslip? NO ONE. Maybe in a newbie game this is okay, but there is no way anyone who knows how to play this game (as Risen clearly does) would think this is a scumslip. Sadly this is where I'm stuck at with him.................
Exactly. We're talking about someone who said this:
On August 15 2013 11:47 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 11:06 Risen wrote: And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try? It doesn't matter? You're saying that scum Sharrant asked for advice on who to check from town Acro when he was always going to check kush? How does that make SO MUCH more sense than what you posted, so that Sharrant is almost confirmed scum? On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote: yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you. Are you seriously threatening people with the OBS QT??? Really? And Sol is exactly right about this. If you believed SnB to be scum, you wouldn't give two shits what his "read" was on you, because it was manufactured anyway. The fact that you cared about his read on you means that you thought he was town, while your vote was on him. Scum reads do not equal confirmed scum. You don't seem to agree with this, and I'm going to say you're a bad player because of it. Until you realize the two are different, you'll always be bad. End of story. and yet doesn't know the basics of what makes someone scum? I cannot believe that.
Unless you mean you think he's town for it?
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On August 16 2013 04:23 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:21 Chromatically wrote:On August 16 2013 04:19 Xatalos wrote:On August 16 2013 04:13 Chromatically wrote: What townie reads this and thinks this is a scumslip? NO ONE. Maybe in a newbie game this is okay, but there is no way anyone who knows how to play this game (as Risen clearly does) would think this is a scumslip. Sadly this is where I'm stuck at with him................. Exactly. We're talking about someone who said this: On August 15 2013 11:47 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 11:06 Risen wrote: And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try? It doesn't matter? You're saying that scum Sharrant asked for advice on who to check from town Acro when he was always going to check kush? How does that make SO MUCH more sense than what you posted, so that Sharrant is almost confirmed scum? On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote: yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you. Are you seriously threatening people with the OBS QT??? Really? And Sol is exactly right about this. If you believed SnB to be scum, you wouldn't give two shits what his "read" was on you, because it was manufactured anyway. The fact that you cared about his read on you means that you thought he was town, while your vote was on him. Scum reads do not equal confirmed scum. You don't seem to agree with this, and I'm going to say you're a bad player because of it. Until you realize the two are different, you'll always be bad. End of story. and yet doesn't know the basics of what makes someone scum? I cannot believe that. Unless you mean you think he's town for it? I mean it's hard for me to determine if he's the worst townie I've ever seen or a chaotic scum. Look at what his read on Vivax was originally based off of:
"He's giving townreads too easily and was noncommittal about the lynch."
Which is a good heuristic for finding scum. That shows that Risen does know how to play this game.
I cannot believe that someone who has at least a basic knowledge of scumhunting can do something like the Xatalos "scumslip" thing.
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On August 16 2013 04:40 s0Lstice wrote:Chrom, I was trying to think back on what I remember about Risen. Have a look at this filter: clickIt's from SSB-64. He moves around a lot and changes his opinions at a breakneck speed. It can often look like he has no conviction behind his original thought because he so quickly moves on to something else. The context was the same for the s&b vote this game. He settled on the s&b vote, and then quickly moved on to the dialogue with him and not wanting to vote him. Kinda makes sense with the way s&b was here and defending himself with vigor while simultaneously pushing his favored lynch. I originally thought you had a good point with the s&b thing, but in light of this, I don't think it's really alignment indicative. That's a good point. I was noticing how much Risen was moving his vote around to thread sentiment this game, so that might not be alignment-indicative. There is this post, though:
On August 15 2013 05:24 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:18 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote: [quote]
I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that.
I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection.
It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.)
[quote]
I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him.
I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind.
The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. Though to be fair this is an actual point that might make sense if you hadn't just posted a case. He only repeated his earlier weak case and said Vivax was scum for no reason. Why are you soft defending him while voting for him? Wait what? My vote is on SnB. Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 05:21 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:13 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:12 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 05:09 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:54 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 04:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 04:45 Xatalos wrote:On August 15 2013 03:42 Vivax wrote: Look, Xatalos. My question regarding your (suddenly not any more?) scumread, of which you fail to understand why he would attack you like that (although he's your scumread you don't see scummy intentions?). Can you answer this or will you post some more insults, lols and rofls, great lord of house shitvotes?
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I think it's pretty null to make such a stupid mistake. How would scum benefit from doing that on purpose? It looked more like he was overjoyed about finding a scumslip and went with it, not like he tried to justify a scumread on me or anything like that. It was so sudden and weird. Could still be scum motivated, just seemed more like null or even townish to do that. I think you're just not reading the thread. My suspicions for Risen had already started before I noticed his inconsistent thought process. Then he posted that he had only suspected DI because of his connection to me. That's just 100% false. 1) It was the other way around, a big part of his case of his case on me was based on my connection to DI. 2) Even if it wasn't the other way around, it wasn't possibly ONLY because of DI's connection to me. There were many other reasons but nothing about a connection. It made me think his original case was all made up, since he couldn't even grasp the logic of his own case HIMSELF. What town would decide their reads, then justify them with bad logic, then not even understand the logic behind their reads? That's right, only scum would do that. (After witnessing Risen's total failure in thinking on several occasions, I've had to admit that maybe he's just incapable of logic altogether.) On August 15 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: [quote] - Your posts before Acro's case imply that he is your scumread. Tell me when did you drop your suspicion on him. - Explain this: "He didn't say "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta and thus is town", he said several points and counter-points and concluded town... " because that's exactly what Mocsta said. If not, why did you not say this in the first place? - About the rolename thing (is this all you are going to bring up - i thought you had more things as you implied so). I talked about it with Solstice, i do not agree with him, and i think it's not alignment indicative. I am not calling johnny scum because of it, I AM SAYING HE IS NOT TOWN BECAUSE OF IT!!!! wtf? - You didn't explain the "forced aggression", where is it? Gimme quotes?
You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? I still suspected Acro somewhat when I was arguing with him, and I still do have some very slight suspicion. But iamperfection's strong belief in Acro being town and the townish feeling of the argument between us made me stop pursuing him as potential scum. If he's still alive at LYLO, there would be reason to revisit him. I think you misread his post. He had several points for Sharrant being town or for being scum. He said something like "Sharrant isn't playing his town meta, but he's been AFK so that might explain it. Overall leaning town". Just reread it with an objective mind. The rolename thing = the "forced aggression". At least I think so, you should go ask him. I can't know what he's thinking. I was just trying to say that he's not necessarily scum and he's not a good lynch for today. Maybe for later, but not at the moment. I'm not going to restart the argument about the rolenames, it already buried countless pages for no gain. And it wasn't the only thing I mentioned, I also mentioned that you had apparently wasted iamperfection's time with pointless questions and had tons of useless filler one-liner posts. where have i wasted iamps time with pointless questions? your other answers fall into the category: You are calling me scum for things you don't even know what they mean. Do you see how retarded that is? From iamperfection's last will: "Asked some pointless questions to me wasting time and therefore posting without a point would still guess he is town though." I'm not even calling you scum. Just that you're scum much more likely than in NWM and more likely than Acro. So do you know what these pointless questions are? Because i sure do not. Why are you bringing them up if you don't? To me it seems like you are trying to throw shit on someone who a now confirmed town was suspicious about. And to strengthen your D2 read, which was full of shit. Why did you say i "was focusing on wrong things"? You have never explained that. I guess he means Lord PM's. Impossible to prove that though. I won't make the mistake of "confirming" someone and let them do whatever they want. I did that with Ace and Koshi in NWM, for example, and it was ugly. If there's reason for doubt, I will point it out. Have you considered that "wrong things" might mean things such as the rolename spam, pointless one-liners and whatever iamperfection meant? I find it pretty damning that all of snb's contributions come under pressure. His play is completely reactive and passive. It's time to increase the pressure. ##Vote strongandbig seriously? what do you want from me? should i ignore the fact that people are calling for me to be killed? You could start scumhunting instead of finding reasons for why you could be town. (1) I already have a scumread that I want people to lynch. no one is engaging my case. I'm not sure how you think I could be more effective just saying the same things about Risen that I've already said. (2) how can i start scumhunting if people are assuming i'm scum, they're not going to listen to anything i say or else will say "i'm just attacking someone else to defend myself." (3) everyone so far has been ignoring everything i've said about risen and just used it as reasons to find me scummy (4) i honestly believe that it is more important as a townie not to get lynched than it is to find scum. I have consistently said this both in and out of games for the past year. I am not going to ignore the fact that I am the number one lynch candidate and that people are voting me for bad reasons, if I can show them why their reasons are bad and persuade them not to vote me then that is way more important to me than persuading them to vote for someone else. So tell me. What do you think about the "reasons why I could be town." Care to tell me why you think I'm scum despite the reasons given being all either based on activity or untrue? Why you suddenly decide that I'm the number one person who should be killed? oh also HOW ARE MY ATTACKS ON RISEN OR VIVAX REACTIVE OR PASSIVE? YOU ARE MAKING SHIT UP!!!!! I hate people ignoring my case so please link me to or write out exactly what you want answered and I will do so. This is pretty soon after he votes SnB. He makes it clear that he thinks SnB is scum at the beginning, but then cares about SnB's opinion in the second half. It doesn't have the same caring tone that the other post had, but he clearly cared about SnB's opinion while he had a strong scumread on him.
It's not as strong, true, but then there's still the other stuff.
On August 16 2013 04:41 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2013 04:37 Chromatically wrote:On August 16 2013 04:23 Xatalos wrote:On August 16 2013 04:21 Chromatically wrote:On August 16 2013 04:19 Xatalos wrote:On August 16 2013 04:13 Chromatically wrote: What townie reads this and thinks this is a scumslip? NO ONE. Maybe in a newbie game this is okay, but there is no way anyone who knows how to play this game (as Risen clearly does) would think this is a scumslip. Sadly this is where I'm stuck at with him................. Exactly. We're talking about someone who said this: On August 15 2013 11:47 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:33 Chromatically wrote:On August 15 2013 11:06 Risen wrote: And Chrom your version falls apart when you realize Sharrant gave Acro the option of Yamato and kush. He wasn't hoping for anything. Nice try? It doesn't matter? You're saying that scum Sharrant asked for advice on who to check from town Acro when he was always going to check kush? How does that make SO MUCH more sense than what you posted, so that Sharrant is almost confirmed scum? On August 15 2013 11:16 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 11:13 s0Lstice wrote: yea nope
you were concerned with his read on you, not your read on him.
two veeeery different things They're the same thing. You're reading too much into this and obs is laughing at you. Are you seriously threatening people with the OBS QT??? Really? And Sol is exactly right about this. If you believed SnB to be scum, you wouldn't give two shits what his "read" was on you, because it was manufactured anyway. The fact that you cared about his read on you means that you thought he was town, while your vote was on him. Scum reads do not equal confirmed scum. You don't seem to agree with this, and I'm going to say you're a bad player because of it. Until you realize the two are different, you'll always be bad. End of story. and yet doesn't know the basics of what makes someone scum? I cannot believe that. Unless you mean you think he's town for it? I mean it's hard for me to determine if he's the worst townie I've ever seen or a chaotic scum. Look at what his read on Vivax was originally based off of: "He's giving townreads too easily and was noncommittal about the lynch." Which is a good heuristic for finding scum. That shows that Risen does know how to play this game. I cannot believe that someone who has at least a basic knowledge of scumhunting can do something like the Xatalos "scumslip" thing. The same can be said for most of his doings so far (his fail Sharrant case, fail first casepost etc.). Occasionally he lectures people on how to play yet continues to play terribly. It looks like he knows how to play in theory but never applies it to his own play. I agree, it sounds scummy. Intentional? On the other hand, I do remember him playing terribly in the previous GOT themed Mafia as town. It was a long time ago though. We're back to the main question: too stupid to be scum or not? I'm at the other end: too stupid to be town. There's no thought process that results in his thinking what you said is a scumslip. The only explanation is that he's trying to fake finding one.
Look at how he backs off of the scumslip. He never realizes, "oh, there's nothing alignment indicative in there at all, I guess that's not a scumslip". He realizes that he misread the original post. That way, he can back off of the "slip" without actually having to explain his thought process (because it doesn't exist).
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Yeah 100% lynch Vivax now. No reason to risk a mislynch today.
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I'm literally typing a post right now
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Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?
So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days".
I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this.
Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller.
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On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this? So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit.
That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax.
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On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this? So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.
He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game.
On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote: what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative.
I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting.
He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew.
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On August 18 2013 01:33 Xatalos wrote: To get back to the actual game.......
I think it's safest to lynch Sharrant now. Even if there's a small chance of being framed, miller etc.... It's just pretty unlikely. AND Sharrant hasn't really done anything in addition to using(?) his role. It's simply starting to look like this was some sort of scum powerplay.
And johnnywup should be shot tonight.
Unless there's some sort of penalty to town for what Mocsta did? Dunno. Gotta wait for hosts to make a judgement call I guess. What do you think about the "even day HP check" thing?
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On August 18 2013 01:47 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:45 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:33 Xatalos wrote: To get back to the actual game.......
I think it's safest to lynch Sharrant now. Even if there's a small chance of being framed, miller etc.... It's just pretty unlikely. AND Sharrant hasn't really done anything in addition to using(?) his role. It's simply starting to look like this was some sort of scum powerplay.
And johnnywup should be shot tonight.
Unless there's some sort of penalty to town for what Mocsta did? Dunno. Gotta wait for hosts to make a judgement call I guess. What do you think about the "even day HP check" thing? Possible, even though somewhat odd. I guess we'll see the truth once he flips. ha
I think he's the second best lynch because of the unlikeliness of Mocsta framed/miller, but I think the scenario where he's scum is fairly unlikely too.
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On August 18 2013 01:53 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:20 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:On August 18 2013 01:02 s0Lstice wrote:On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.
As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this? So your idea is that Sharrant, before bussing his scumbuddy yamato, FAKECLAIMED cop to Acro to ask for his opinion? And he was just going to hope that Acro suggested yamato, so that way he could LIE and say he was checking kush, before actually bussing yamato???
I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days". I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this. Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller. Yes, I agree that it would be pretty outrageous from a scum Sharrant and town Acro point of view. I don't think it would be that crazy if they were both scum. Scum do what they think will make them win. Anyway, I don't really love pre-flip connections. The bolded isn't entirely true. Risen voted and said the lynch was Vivax right around when I did, and I was at the very beginning of the wagon. He didn't push it all that hard, but to say he consolidated when it was clear isn't entirely right. I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit. That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax. Hmm. I do agree that it isn't the likely scenario on Sharrant. I would really feel a lot better though if I had any sort of notion that he cared about the game outside of his checks. On Risen, I think he was super unsure. It's just like the s&b discussion earlier. His vote and his interests are all over the place, and he will be pushing multiple things in a short period of time. Really difficult to say as we would typically that this guy is scum for not pushing his #1 scum read, because what does #1 scum read really mean for Risen if it lasts all of 5 minutes? If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game. On August 18 2013 01:30 s0Lstice wrote: what is he saying?
also...Chrom have you thought some more about the Risen v Xatalos stuff I was telling you about earlier? I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative. I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting. He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew. yup pretty much. he's really hard to read because of how erratic he is. So to make this public knowledge, Risen PMed me after Vivax made his claim thing saying he wanted to lynch Xatalos. This is shortly after posting in the thread something along the lines of Xatalos=bad. He then immediately sent a PM after saying 'oh oops nevermind we gotta lynch Vivax today.' Scum Risen knows Vivax is on his team, and hence would be pretty concerned with what side of this issue he ends up on. Why would he rock the boat like this as scum and muddy the waters after already being on the correct side of the Vivax wagon? How does this action improve his situation? It's crazy as town too, but the flakiness and carelessness of the action makes the town side a lot more likely. Hm, that's more specific than I thought it was. There's still no reason to do it either way, so it could come from both alignments. It's very possible for scum Risen to "forget" that the lynch is still today as opposed to having already happened yesterday.
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hi im renly baratheon
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