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On June 30 2013 20:21 Lazermonkey wrote:
I do find Vayne's play scummy, that's why I asked. And no, I don't mean a policy type of lynch. I mean a you-are-likely-scum type of lynch. What is your take on his post about me that he ends up doing nothing with, and instead tries to defend himself from attacks that aren't really attacks?
Also, I don't understand why me trying to recognize him as a lynch bait makes me look suspcious in your eyes. If he is a lynch bait, everyone will know that sooner or later. Thing is, scum can just ignore the fact he is a lynch bait and just push him because he looks scummy. Applying your logic in the case of a Vayne lynch, I would bad because I questioned if he was a lynch bait whereas scum looks better because they didn't.
The first two sentences in your second paragraph are contradictory. The rest of it is WIFOM.
My point was that whether he is lynchbait or not, I won't be using that to determine whether or not he is worthy of being lynched and I don't feel that attempting to determine as such one way or the other is a particularly towny thing to do.
Now as far as his post:
On June 30 2013 12:22 VayneAuthority wrote:
Something rubs me the wrong way about lazermonkeys posting
Starts off the thread not even wanting to scum hunt.
Throws down a troll vote early, see jaybrundage in roulette for how something innocent just pads your filter with bs.
Eager to jump on the stutters be before he has even defended himself
His 6th post is just insanely scummy read it and tell me otherwise
Rest of his filter is useless speculation
He gets my vote until I can talk with him more and get a better read
Can't vote right now as its much too precise to bold shit on an iPad but will contribute more when I'm home tomorrow night
This is completely antithetic to what Vayne's play has consisted of so far on TL. I can't make heads or tails from it because this is more character/post analysis than he normally does D1 and as well he promises to contribute more. If you want to treat this simply as is, ignore his meta and say it's scummy because of no followup then that's your prerogative but I'd like to see more from him before making a call. If I were to ignore his meta and look strictly at this post I probably wouldn't like it either, especially the '6th post' comment which I'd like him to expand upon eventually.
For what it's worth, the towniest he has ever played thus far in my opinion was his scum game.
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On June 30 2013 20:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:20 Vivax wrote:On June 30 2013 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax i already answered that.
Oats i have never said so, i said i play quite similarly as town or mafia.
Why does me giving a townread to marv make me scum? Is it impossible for me to have this thought process i have already explained as town, and if so, why? No you didn't answer it bro. You said "Now that everyone has posted he can post his role PM". I don't see your reasoning behind this. How are other posts in any way relevant to marv being able to post his PM? Yes i did answer it. Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 19:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first.
Apologies, mistook that for another defense of marv's claim (Interpreted it as: Marv would have had a 50 % chance of getting counterclaimed and dying).
That doesn't change the fact that marv did the same thing as scum in another game, and as Oats pointed out, in all of this you keep assuming that marv is town. He did the same 17 minutes into the game in the other game.
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I'm really curious to see which name marv will claim.
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On June 30 2013 20:34 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:21 Lazermonkey wrote:
I do find Vayne's play scummy, that's why I asked. And no, I don't mean a policy type of lynch. I mean a you-are-likely-scum type of lynch. What is your take on his post about me that he ends up doing nothing with, and instead tries to defend himself from attacks that aren't really attacks?
Also, I don't understand why me trying to recognize him as a lynch bait makes me look suspcious in your eyes. If he is a lynch bait, everyone will know that sooner or later. Thing is, scum can just ignore the fact he is a lynch bait and just push him because he looks scummy. Applying your logic in the case of a Vayne lynch, I would bad because I questioned if he was a lynch bait whereas scum looks better because they didn't. The first two sentences in your second paragraph are contradictory. The rest of it is WIFOM. My point was that whether he is lynchbait or not, I won't be using that to determine whether or not he is worthy of being lynched and I don't feel that attempting to determine as such one way or the other is a particularly towny thing to do. I don't get how the sentences are contradicting each other : /. And its not really that much of WIFOM. If I am scum, couldn't I just say "hey, these posts by Vayne probably means he is scum" and then just push for his lynch, not giving a fuck? Instead I said "hey, these posts by Vayne are suspcious, but if he usually plays like this then its not that big of a scum tell".
And no, I'm obviously not giving him auto-town status just because he is a lynch bait, that would be retarded Lol. But there is a reason lynch baits are lynch baits. They get lynched.
On June 30 2013 20:34 WaveofShadow wrote:Now as far as his post: Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 12:22 VayneAuthority wrote:
Something rubs me the wrong way about lazermonkeys posting
Starts off the thread not even wanting to scum hunt.
Throws down a troll vote early, see jaybrundage in roulette for how something innocent just pads your filter with bs.
Eager to jump on the stutters be before he has even defended himself
His 6th post is just insanely scummy read it and tell me otherwise
Rest of his filter is useless speculation
He gets my vote until I can talk with him more and get a better read
Can't vote right now as its much too precise to bold shit on an iPad but will contribute more when I'm home tomorrow night This is completely antithetic to what Vayne's play has consisted of so far on TL. I can't make heads or tails from it because this is more character/post analysis than he normally does D1 and as well he promises to contribute more. If you want to treat this simply as is, ignore his meta and say it's scummy because of no followup then that's your prerogative but I'd like to see more from him before making a call. If I were to ignore his meta and look strictly at this post I probably wouldn't like it either, especially the '6th post' comment which I'd like him to expand upon eventually. For what it's worth, the towniest he has ever played thus far in my opinion was his scum game. Okay, this is what I wanted from you!
As a side note, my 6th post is this On June 30 2013 07:12 Lazermonkey wrote:
Marv, which game were you fake claiming miller? Maybe I'm a bit biased in this issue (^^)but I fail to see how this makes me scum.
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On June 30 2013 21:00 Vivax wrote:
Apologies, mistook that for another defense of marv's claim (Interpreted it as: Marv would have had a 50 % chance of getting counterclaimed and dying).
That doesn't change the fact that marv did the same thing as scum in another game, and as Oats pointed out, in all of this you keep assuming that marv is town. He did the same 17 minutes into the game in the other game.
Ok 2 things here.
1. Rayn is scum for instantly taking marv as modconfirmed town.
2. Marv is null for doing this as scum before.
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On June 30 2013 21:29 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:00 Vivax wrote:
Apologies, mistook that for another defense of marv's claim (Interpreted it as: Marv would have had a 50 % chance of getting counterclaimed and dying).
That doesn't change the fact that marv did the same thing as scum in another game, and as Oats pointed out, in all of this you keep assuming that marv is town. He did the same 17 minutes into the game in the other game. Ok 2 things here. 1. Rayn is scum for instantly taking marv as modconfirmed town. 2. Marv is null for doing this as scum before.
If Rayn is scum marv is likely town imo.
This exudates so much confidence into marv being town that I don't see it coming from scum about scum.
if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv
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On June 30 2013 21:47 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 30 2013 21:00 Vivax wrote:
Apologies, mistook that for another defense of marv's claim (Interpreted it as: Marv would have had a 50 % chance of getting counterclaimed and dying).
That doesn't change the fact that marv did the same thing as scum in another game, and as Oats pointed out, in all of this you keep assuming that marv is town. He did the same 17 minutes into the game in the other game. Ok 2 things here. 1. Rayn is scum for instantly taking marv as modconfirmed town. 2. Marv is null for doing this as scum before. If Rayn is scum marv is likely town imo. This exudates so much confidence into marv being town that I don't see it coming from scum about scum.
well yeah Im just saying that Rayn isnt scum for not knowing about previous game where marv fakeclaimed miller and replaced out.
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Alright, I'm catching up now. Jesus Christ I didn't expect that type of response. I'll go through and answer people's questions and get my reads out in a bit.
To answer the main question though, it was early d1. I wanted to see how he'd react to an accusation. I did find it weird he was so sure there was 1 miller and there is the possibility he could be scum and assume because he/his teammate got RB he accidentally slipped that town had to have better PRs than miller. Obviously since no one else claimed, it is impossible, but after the triple cop claim and double mason fiasco in Les Mis I'm a bit weary of people who "know"how the setup is supposed to be.
With that said though his reaction and thought process makes him the towniest motherfucker here. Especially after themed, I really doubt he'd be scum.
Now catching up.
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What?
With that said though his reaction and thought process makes him the towniest motherfucker here. Especially after themed, I really doubt he'd be scum.
Explain this part further.
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On June 30 2013 21:48 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 21:47 Vivax wrote:On June 30 2013 21:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 30 2013 21:00 Vivax wrote:
Apologies, mistook that for another defense of marv's claim (Interpreted it as: Marv would have had a 50 % chance of getting counterclaimed and dying).
That doesn't change the fact that marv did the same thing as scum in another game, and as Oats pointed out, in all of this you keep assuming that marv is town. He did the same 17 minutes into the game in the other game. Ok 2 things here. 1. Rayn is scum for instantly taking marv as modconfirmed town. 2. Marv is null for doing this as scum before. If Rayn is scum marv is likely town imo. This exudates so much confidence into marv being town that I don't see it coming from scum about scum. if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv well yeah Im just saying that Rayn isnt scum for not knowing about previous game where marv fakeclaimed miller and replaced out.
Rayn is scummy for his unnatural confidence into marv being town.
Followed by him not adapting his opinion to the new information posted about marv and using whatever he can to justify his unjustified townread.
What we have in Rayn is probably a scum seeing a townie claim and immediately taking sides for the townie.
From a scum point of view, claiming townies seem to be in a strong position, especially when they know that their team will not counterclaim the townie.
They will usually try to pick the right side rather than fighting the claim, scum loves to be on the right side.
They feel it's going to earn them trust if they simply take the claim at face value and move on to other stuff, defending the townie against other people's doubts, expecting to look like they were right.
A lot of Rayn's reasoning for marv being town stems from the fact that he assumes that there can't be two millers.
That is fallacious, and a scumslip, Lazermonkey fell for the same mistake, as I will show you (also notice that Lazermonkey pointed out some of Rayn's mistakes but doesn't pursue him as scumread).
1. Rayn quickly thought post-claim that two millers weren't possible.
On June 30 2013 06:08 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Cool. If nobody counterclaims the next step is that the third party (if here) is going to protect you.
On June 30 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, now that i can be sure that you are town and i do actually have to find scum instead of bullshitting around, let's work together and find all the mafia on D1. Deal?
On June 30 2013 06:19 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I bet that was not 5 minutes into the game when one person has posted before you.
That is really an unnecessary risk that i do not think you would take as scum in case the real miller is present.
(stutters says there can be two millers)
On June 30 2013 06:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
There is no way there are 2 millers in the game so cut talking about that as a possibility already.
What's scummy about this:
- Rayn mentions the chance of a counterclaim.
- 5 minutes later he's sure marv is town.
- 6 minutes later he says marv would not fakeclaim as scum
- 20 minutes later he says there can't be two millers
Implication:
→ Rayn did not really expect a counterclaim, as seen in point 2, 3 and 4. Only a fraction of players posted at the time so it was not rational to dismiss a counterclaim that quickly.
He explains his reasoning here:
On June 30 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 07:12 Vivax wrote:
It's possible I guess. I don't think it's worth speculating about until another miller claims.
Lazermonkey's vote on WoS gives me a townie feeling. Any differing opinions? Do you agree?Yes? Why? This is how i see it: marv claimed before iGrok announced the cop is in fact a parity cop. In case the cop was normal and as there is no GF, it's fair that there is one miller. Two millers make the game insanely hard for a cop, and with two miller claims town might run in circles finding which of the millers is "mafia". As for parity cop, having two millers ease up the game much. If the parity cop is stupid enough to not check marv on N1, they still can check the other miller claim on N2 (as if marv is town he will die on N1) and use that to confirm his earlier and future checks. If there is no cop there is no point in having millers. One might be okay in the sense that it fucks with the town, but not too much. Two millers and no cop is basically impossible. marv would not claim miller in either scenario because there is no need to. So that's why i think marv is town and there is exactly 1 miller. I agree that Lazer is probably town. His opening post was careless and i don't think he would have done that as scum. His vote on WoS is good as WoS is probably scum. :D What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad.
Let's dissect this:
1. Rayn says only one miller is possible with standard cop (don't even know why he mentioned this as it's unrelated)
2. Rayn says two millers make the game too easy for parity cop coz he can prime his check on one N2 if the other dies N1 (lolz)
3. Rayn says only one miller is possible with no cop. Also no miller is possible.
And he says: THAT'S WHY MARV IS TOWN (cause two millers are unlikely)
This question arises:
It sticks out that in all of this, Rayn never considers that town could have no miller.
Why does Rayn not consider that town has no miller?
Cause he first gave marv full credit (too quickly, knowing that the claim must be true) and now has to justify it.
Cause he knew that marv's claim was true, and hence had trouble imagining things from a perspective where town could have no miller.
Futhermore:
On June 30 2013 09:41 Lazermonkey wrote:
EBWOP: To expand on that, what is it that makes you think that marv is to bright to fake claim miller in this game despite having done so in another game. The claim was risky in that game, just as the hypothetical fake claim would be in this game. Still you say there cannot be a possibilty that Marv is scum in this game.
On June 30 2013 09:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The fact that there is a rolename for each possible miller. If you fakeclaim, you take a 50% chance of 1-1 trade as mafia, which is not good 5min into D1.
There is lot to talk about. Stutters and WoS are scummy. Do you agree? We talk about marv more when he posts more.
Rayn was well aware of the fact that millers have names. And yet he said that marv would not have claimed miller cause a guy with the same name would have gotten one of them lynched. BUT MARV NEVER CLAIMED HIS NAME, and Rayn never asked him for it.
This shows that Rayn had the intention to defend marv, not that he was figuring out his alignment genuinely.
For us, it means that today we should lynch Rayn imo.
I also mentioned that Lazer made the same mistake in not assuming the genuine perspective, here:
On June 30 2013 07:25 Lazermonkey wrote:
Regarding the the possibilties of there being two millers in the setup.
First off, I'm going to make the assumption that there are only three scum in this game. Secondly, looking at the roles in possible for scum you can see that the only one power role in our beloved friend Adolf "the roleblocker." Hitler. Now, assuming there is only 1 Hitler (which I don't think is a very bold assumption) the most powerfull scum team is in theory goon x2 + GF, a relativly weak team. Having two millers vs this team, even without additional blue roles, honestly seems kinda OP as you would either get into a postion with 2 modconfirmed townies D1 or a group of 3 people where you know for sure that one is scum. So, once again assuming (-.-)that the game is fairly balanced I don't think there are two millers.
And the conclusion you should draw from this is that Marvs claim probably means he is town.
Knowing that marv is town, he didn't assume that there could be no miller.
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Yeah Lazer took in the fakeclaim not as scum fake claiming, just saying that with 1 miller means marv is confirmed town and 2 millers means that marv isnt confirmed town.
kk.
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On June 30 2013 23:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah Lazer took in the fakeclaim not as scum fake claiming, just saying that with 1 miller means marv is confirmed town and 2 millers means that marv isnt confirmed town.
kk.
?
Lazer says marv is probably town cause there can only be 1 miller.
And that while knowing that he fakeclaimed miller in another game.
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bleh I meant Lazers reasoning was based on 2 miller and not scum team.
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Part of my reason I see him as town is how aggressive and out there he is compared to Themed. I hadn't thought about it with how Vivax explains it though, that's a really good point. I don't know though his case against me felt genuine. I'll reread.
I would like to hear his contradiction on WoS though.
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On June 30 2013 23:30 Stutters695 wrote:
Part of my reason I see him as town is how aggressive and out there he is compared to Themed. I hadn't thought about it with how Vivax explains it though, that's a really good point. I don't know though his case against me felt genuine. I'll reread.
I would like to hear his contradiction on WoS though.
Themed mafia?
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Err not themed, roulette.
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This seems the same as his newbie game for me tbh.
I dont think roulettte is an accurate representation as his scum game because he simply had no time to play there.
How about his play in I swear? He flipped scum too.
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On June 30 2013 22:46 Stutters695 wrote:
With that said though his reaction and thought process makes him the towniest motherfucker here. Especially after themed, I really doubt he'd be scum.
Can you point out what reaction and thought process you thought made him such a townie motherfucker?
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I'll check the newbie game but he rayne wasn't in I swear was he?
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I can look it up myself I guess:
rofl what's this? An accusation? Now if i was mafia how would i know how many millers there are in the game?
Also could you answer the quesions about Lazer/WoS?
Actually no, Stutters' last post makes no sense from town point of view.
##Vote: Stutters
What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad.
On June 30 2013 07:22 Stutters695 wrote:
Why are they bad?
So basically, what makes Rayn so townie is that he asks a question you don't answer, votes for you, and asks me to look at you.
Then, when so many agree on you looking bad, he switches to WoS, asking us to find the reason, I still don't see him mentioning that reason by himself in his filter.
So basically, you, his first scumread, never answered his question (which you could do now btw). He proceeds to drop a vote on WoS, then is busy defending himself, but nevertheless he doesn't try to find reasons for you or WoS to be decent lynches.
So yeah, I kinda have trouble seeing how his reaction is so townie in your opinion.
Happy birthday by the way.
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EPT
