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On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?
If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv.
Lazer has been asking for marv's scumgame with fakeclaim all the time. I'd expect you to have looked up the link I posted, but given your suspicious hard-on for defending marv it doesn't surprise me you didn't do that.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394344¤tpage=12#222
17 minutes into the game, is that early enough?
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On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?
If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv. Don't make it sound like Marv had to think everything through in just 5 minutes because that's just not true. It's not like its impossible to plan that if you roll mafia in a game, you want to fake claim miller. What do I know, maybe he even requested mafia?
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Why doesn't either of you answer the question what would he gain by claiming miller?
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marv gains confirmed town status.
look. There is precedent. Therefore you are wrong.
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On June 30 2013 19:54 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?
If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv. Don't make it sound like Marv had to think everything through in just 5 minutes because that's just not true. It's not like its impossible to plan that if you roll mafia in a game, you want to fake claim miller. What do I know, maybe he even requested mafia?
I'm not sure how relevant that is. (Does anyone know if iGrok is the type of host to give requests rather than RNG?)
As for Vayne, there's not a great deal to say. Played here in one of the first games on the site, disappears and plays on Mafiascum for a while (I think?). Comes back, does decently in newbie games, then causes a whole bunch of shit when playing with the big boys because his playstyle doesn't fit with how we play on TL. He often talks big about how he doesn't do much analysis on the first day but then gets criticized when his play doesn't pick up on subsequent days. Is lynchbait in a lot of his town games and some of his play is questionable. His sole game as mafia was with me and he did really well.
Trying to recognize someone as lynchbait worries me a little, Lazer. It becomes one of those WIFOM things where we don't know:
a) Are you targeting him because he is lynchbait and you get a pass on that if he flips green?
b) Are you targeting him because he looks scummy to you?
This was an issue with jaybrundage in Roulette mini. His play on the lynchbait thing was different in that he self-acknowledged as lynchbait at the start of the game (which I found scummy) and said anyone who goes after him as such was scummy. Turned out he was scum, but me and mostly everyone else ended up not doing much suspecting of him throughout the game because despite saying he was lynchbait, he didn't act as such. That honestly should have set off alarms for me and everyone else much earlier.
This may seem off-topic but in conclusion my stance on it is lynchbait or not, if he's not actively disruptive to town play, and not acting/playing scummy, then I have no reason to lynch him currently. I had talked in an earlier obs QT about the idea of policy lynching because Vayne ends up lynchbait a lot and doesn't play when asked a lot, but that doesn't seem to be the case this game as I mentioned to him, plus I don't think I have the pull/balls to carry off a straight policy lynch.
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On June 30 2013 20:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why doesn't either of you answer the question what would he gain by claiming miller?
The thing you are trying to give him: Confirmed town status.
At the very least it should have raised some doubt in you when it became obvious that marv could have posted name + role PM.
Instead you wrote this:
On June 30 2013 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah everyone has posted, marv can post the role PM.
Oats you're being dumb. I do not buddy strong town players as scum.
So please answer me this:
And why should he not post it immediately and only after everyone has posted?
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Rayn, I thought you said you play differently every game, therefore meta isnt a thing?
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oh man rayn is shitting his pants
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Vivax i already answered that.
Oats i have never said so, i said i play quite similarly as town or mafia.
Why does me giving a townread to marv make me scum? Is it impossible for me to have this thought process i have already explained as town, and if so, why?
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On June 30 2013 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax i already answered that.
Oats i have never said so, i said i play quite similarly as town or mafia.
Why does me giving a townread to marv make me scum? Is it impossible for me to have this thought process i have already explained as town, and if so, why?
No you didn't answer it bro.
You said "Now that everyone has posted he can post his role PM".
I don't see your reasoning behind this. How are other posts in any way relevant to marv being able to post his PM?
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I do find Vayne's play scummy, that's why I asked. And no, I don't mean a policy type of lynch. I mean a you-are-likely-scum type of lynch. What is your take on his post about me that he ends up doing nothing with, and instead tries to defend himself from attacks that aren't really attacks?
Also, I don't understand why me trying to recognize him as a lynch bait makes me look suspcious in your eyes. If he is a lynch bait, everyone will know that sooner or later. Thing is, scum can just ignore the fact he is a lynch bait and just push him because he looks scummy. Applying your logic in the case of a Vayne lynch, I would bad because I questioned if he was a lynch bait whereas scum looks better because they didn't.
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That post was dircetced at WoS!
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On June 30 2013 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why does me giving a townread to marv make me scum? Is it impossible for me to have this thought process i have already explained as town, and if so, why?
You didnt give marv a townread. You took him as flipped town.
Its impossible to have this thought process as town because town takes claims skeptically and doesnt instantly go, OK MARVS TOWN. YAY.
Also, miller is one of the best mafia claims in terms of the fact that you cant be dt checked to confirm your claim.
So since you are experienced, you wouldve known this and thought at least a bit how marv could be scum.
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My biggest problem with Rayn being scum atm is the fact that it seems that he took an unnecessarily hard aproach to the whole Marv being miller thing. Why couldn't he just say something like "you you guys are right" and avoid all this shit at him? Stuff like this is more likely to come from a stubborn townie IMO.
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because scum thinks 180s are bad.
Actually I think the 'you guys are right' is more likely to come from townie who doesnt give a shit about being right.
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On June 30 2013 20:20 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax i already answered that.
Oats i have never said so, i said i play quite similarly as town or mafia.
Why does me giving a townread to marv make me scum? Is it impossible for me to have this thought process i have already explained as town, and if so, why? No you didn't answer it bro. You said "Now that everyone has posted he can post his role PM". I don't see your reasoning behind this. How are other posts in any way relevant to marv being able to post his PM?
Yes i did answer it.
On June 30 2013 19:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first.
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Oats why would i insta-call marv town as scum? Why would i do so?
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If I was miller, I wouldnt claim till I had a strong read on marv.
someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first.
This is like the perfect post to show how much you thought marv was town. It appears like there is 0 doubt in your mind. NO DOUBT AT ALL THAT MARV IS TOWN. Even though the second claimer is probably statistically likely to be town.
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On June 30 2013 20:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats why would i insta-call marv town as scum? Why would i do so?
cause thats what your reaction was. Because in your mind, anyone who claimed miller was town.
Its not necessarily strategic.
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EPT
