On June 30 2013 14:10 s0Lstice wrote:
Oats, the implication to me was pretty clear. Asking someone if they know something we(town) don't is a suggestion that they aren't town. When have you ever seen this question mean something else?

So whats your problem with stutters statement? Its accurate

s0Lstice

United States1832 Posts

June 30 2013 05:30 GMT

#183

On June 30 2013 14:20 Oatsmaster wrote:

Show nested quote +

So whats your problem with stutters statement? Its accurate

I've explained this before, but here goes. Stutters expressed suspicion towards Rayn with his 'know something we don't?' question. This is an implication that Rayn had information that townies shouldn't have. So, follow the thought process.

Rayn knows there is only 1 miller in the game--> Rayn is suspicious for knowing this.

Except...scum don't have this information. It doesn't feel right.

Oatsmaster

United States16628 Posts

June 30 2013 05:32 GMT

#184

Um
So scum dont have that information. tell me how that leads to stutters being scum?

s0Lstice

United States1832 Posts

June 30 2013 05:43 GMT

#185

because he is presumably suspicious of Rayn for having that information when it makes no sense at all? It's not hard to consider what it means in brass tacks for someone to know exactly how many millers are in the game. I feel like we are beating this to death now. I want to hear what Stutters has to say.

bed time for me. I'd like to see if others get similar vibes from Lazermonkey and Vivax as well, so comment on what I wrote folks.

Oatsmaster

United States16628 Posts

June 30 2013 05:44 GMT

#186

So you are saying as scum stutters wants to throw suspicion on Rayn for something that scum dont know. I dont think this is really all the believable

JarJarDrinks

United States1302 Posts

June 30 2013 05:57 GMT

#187

On June 30 2013 14:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
So you are saying as scum stutters wants to throw suspicion on Rayn for something that scum dont know. I dont think this is really all the believable

Yeah this is what I was saying. If Stutters meant it as an accusation, it wasn't well thought out. I'd think that if scum was about to accuse someone of being scummy, they would first ask themselves "Is this at all believable?"

Dandel Ion

Austria17960 Posts

June 30 2013 10:10 GMT

#188

Votecount:

Stutters (0): ~~raynpelikoneet~~
WaveofShadow (1): raynpelikoneet

Wave is set to be lynched.
Deadline in ~35 hours
Keep in mind that there's a voting thread.

Vivax

21948 Posts

June 30 2013 10:12 GMT

#189

GUYS GUYS.

Alright, first of all, I'm still at page 9 while writing this. But I thought about all of this miller thing.

First : It's good that we have that claim. Parity cop can simply check marv and prime his check for the following nights.
Second: WHY did marv not claim miller along with a name? That is actually pretty scummy. Millers have names in this game, and two possibly different ones.

For a scum fakeclaiming it makes sense to withhold your name cause you don't know if there's another miller.
If you fakeclaim with name, you are at risk of getting counterclaimed for having the same name.

And overall: Why doesn't marv post his full miller PM at once? He should still do that and if he can't we lynch him. If he does we have to consider that it can come from the host. But if iGrok doesn't give one to him he can't and we lynch him. Ezpz.

Oatsmaster

United States16628 Posts

June 30 2013 10:21 GMT

#190

well marv hasnt posted since the start of the game.

What do you think of Rayn?

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

June 30 2013 10:30 GMT

#191

Yeah everyone has posted, marv can post the role PM.

Oats you're being dumb. I do not buddy strong town players as scum.

Vivax

21948 Posts

June 30 2013 10:32 GMT

#192

On June 30 2013 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah everyone has posted, marv can post the role PM.

Oats you're being dumb. I do not buddy strong town players as scum.

And why should he not post it immediately and only after everyone has posted?

That he didn't post it immediately is scummy in itself.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

June 30 2013 10:41 GMT

#193

No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first.

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

June 30 2013 10:42 GMT

#194

SUP.

Didn't know there was a voting thread -.- I guess you learn something new everyday!

Is Vayne a lynch bait or something? Makes a post about why I am scummy for several bad reasons. Then what? nothing... He makes 4 addiotional posts but doesn't follow up at all. Thhese posts are just general BS about why we shouldn't policy lynch him and that gumshoe is town because

On June 30 2013 14:10 VayneAuthority wrote:Btw I find gumshoe to be town due to him looking at people in terms of losses and weighing our options instead of just jumping on something. He looks to be like some one who is turning the cogs but is unsure of himself. There's my reasoning now

Pretty suspicious of him calling me out for not wanting to scum hunt, yet he doesn't follow up his own suspicions a singel bit. Why doesn't he try to convince others that I am suspicious rather than defend himself when he is in no danger of dying?

Vivax

21948 Posts

June 30 2013 10:43 GMT

#195

On June 30 2013 19:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
well marv hasnt posted since the start of the game.

What do you think of Rayn?

His efforts and perseverance in contributing looks townie. But his trust into marv's claim is suspicious, even when he is presented with evidence of marv fakeclaiming miller in another game.

He tries to rationalize his trust in this post:

On June 30 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is how i see it:
marv claimed before iGrok announced the cop is in fact a parity cop. In case the cop was normal and as there is no GF, it's fair that there is one miller. Two millers make the game insanely hard for a cop, and with two miller claims town might run in circles finding which of the millers is "mafia".As for parity cop, having two millers ease up the game much. If the parity cop is stupid enough to not check marv on N1, they still can check the other miller claim on N2 (as if marv is town he will die on N1) and use that to confirm his earlier and future checks.

If there is no cop there is no point in having millers. One might be okay in the sense that it fucks with the town, but not too much. Two millers and no cop is basically impossible.

marv would not claim miller in either scenario because there is no need to.
So that's why i think marv is town and there is exactly 1 miller.

I agree that Lazer is probably town. His opening post was careless and i don't think he would have done that as scum. His vote on WoS is good as WoS is probably scum. :D

What do you think about Stutters? Mainly his posts about the miller thing. They are really really bad.

Now, it looks like a shitty explanation.
Rayn writes lengthy stuff about marv claiming before parity cop is revealed, but it doesn't tell anything about marv, except that he was expecting normal cops.

Since this is Rayn rationalizing his townread, and mentioning this stuff about miller and cop has no effect on that townread and should rather weaken it, cause Rayn himself mentions that millers are helpful with parity cops and marv would rather not fakeclaim with parity cops present, this explanation looks forced and not very genuine.

Like, the bolded part is literally the whole explanation Rayn offers for marv not being scum. "Because there is no need to".
In what scenarios? Scenarios with parity cop and scenario with no cop. Well, he said himself marv claimed before parity cop announcement, and marv can't know if there's a cop.

Upon analyzing this post I have this Deutsch feeling about rayn.

##Unvote
##Vote Rayn

Lazermonkey

Sweden2176 Posts

June 30 2013 10:44 GMT

#196

On June 30 2013 19:12 Vivax wrote:
GUYS GUYS.

Alright, first of all, I'm still at page 9 while writing this. But I thought about all of this miller thing.

First : It's good that we have that claim. Parity cop can simply check marv and prime his check for the following nights.
Second: WHY did marv not claim miller along with a name? That is actually pretty scummy. Millers have names in this game, and two possibly different ones.

For a scum fakeclaiming it makes sense to withhold your name cause you don't know if there's another miller.
If you fakeclaim with name, you are at risk of getting counterclaimed for having the same name.

And overall: Why doesn't marv post his full miller PM at once? He should still do that and if he can't we lynch him. If he does we have to consider that it can come from the host. But if iGrok doesn't give one to him he can't and we lynch him. Ezpz.

Good point.

WaveofShadow

Canada31494 Posts

June 30 2013 10:49 GMT

#197

Oh wat there's a voting thread.
Alright for posterity I'm throwing my vote for Stutters up there since there's TECHNICALLY nobody voting him but as I've said it makes me uneasy that his wagon formed so quickly. Vote stays until he gets back.

Vivax to be fair had I rolled miller and was asked to claim I either wouldn't, or if I did I probably wouldn't think to post the name unless asked. That's just from my perspective so I don't know if you'd still find that scummy or not but I personally don't.

Vivax

21948 Posts

June 30 2013 10:50 GMT

#198

Oh I see now. Rayn claims that marv would not fakeclaim miller in a game with a possible cop cause there would only be one miller with standard cop. But with parity cop, the game becomes easier with two millers and it's rather possible there are two?

That's daring setup speculation, and this setup is everything but standard. Overall I feel Rayn is giving marv too easy credit for that claim and then rationalizing it uber hard afterwards when I gun him for it.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43268 Posts

June 30 2013 10:51 GMT

#199

Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?

If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv.