Doctor Who Mafia

On May 15 2013 11:19 ghost_403 wrote:


We're assuming that the angels have to be physically close to the other players in order to use their night actions. Someone speculated earlier that town PRs would have similar mechanics. Not dying at night >> dying at night.

But, you're right. Focus on finding scum. You have any thoughts on the other players so far?

On May 15 2013 11:55 Blazinghand wrote:


the plan is, we announce our movements JUST before the lynch, and we move in distinct patterns. scum won't be able to mimic our patterns if we post them JUST before the lynch, and it will let us figure out who is who (something that scum already knows)

On May 15 2013 12:02 Zephirdd wrote:


"hey guys I'm moving three steps to the left"
-> 4 pieces move 3 steps to the left

Well, that isn't informative at all.

On May 15 2013 12:09 Zephirdd wrote:


How does it not help? Angels have all the info they need. Having no information is much worse than having some info.

Besides, we can coordinate movement and angel position. If we see something, we are notified - figuring out who you are on the board will make you use the board to your advantage.

On May 15 2013 12:25 Blazinghand wrote:
Zephirdd is almost certainly town

On May 15 2013 19:09 phagga wrote:
Just a few thoughts about mechanics since nothing else is going on right now:

We have three different parameters to distinct the moving of the players:
- Moving Direction
- Moving Speed
- Watching Direction

We have to be really unlucky to not confirm the spot of most players in the first night with this many possible unique combinations. So we should all claim our values for those 3 parameters right before deadline.

Also another host question:
Can two players be on the same spot? If not, what happens when they both move on the same spot? Can a player get on a spot where a statue is? If not, what happens when he tries to do so?

On May 15 2013 22:16 marvellosity wrote:


Why bitch at people if you haven't anything to add yourself, dear?

On May 15 2013 22:30 phagga wrote:


Noone has said this so far. We were not aware that it was possible to move in more than one direction and noone mentioned that the direction we look at will additionally help us to discern the different players.

And if you are reading the thread you should actually know this. Which makes me wonder why you asked that question.

I wanted to make it clear that the above scenario is very unlikely due to the huge amount of combination possibilities available.

On May 15 2013 22:51 phagga wrote:


Yeah, you're right, I missed that. However, it doesn't change the fact that I really want this to happen. Even if scum is successfully messing with us, we should still be able to recognize most people.

On May 15 2013 23:24 phagga wrote:


fferyllt for being in the thread and not posting anything of substance.

In a far second place marv for being way to nice and not enough leader-ish.

On May 16 2013 00:18 marvellosity wrote:


Plans don't suck at all, in games like these they're pretty important, and making good/bad plans can have a pretty large difference in the final outcome. So try reading and understanding what's written, because plans simply do not suck; what sucks if you saying they suck.

On May 16 2013 00:20 deconduo wrote:


Nothing yet, but its only just started. Also this is far from your normal game, so figuring out the setup is pretty damn important. Same with plans, if we can't figure out who is who, we are just moving randomly around the board and we will lose very quickly.

On May 16 2013 00:22 marvellosity wrote:


Why don't you give your own, before asking other people for theirs?

On May 16 2013 00:26 marvellosity wrote:
You don't get to ask me or anyone else questions if you're not going to do what you're asking for yourself.

That's hypocrisy, and that sucks.

On May 16 2013 00:28 marvellosity wrote:
In that case, expect to be ignored. It's that simple.

On May 16 2013 00:43 marvellosity wrote:
It's the value of doing something yourself that you expect others to be doing. There's no point wildly accusing people of not scumhunting, when you have done literally zero scumhunting. Your filter is one of the longest in the game and yet it is completely devoid of any meaningless content.

On May 16 2013 00:57 marvellosity wrote:
Because I'm waiting for you to push someone first, babygirl.

On May 16 2013 01:25 Zephirdd wrote:

I was the first to cast a vote on this game. I also had a lil nudge about sentinel but its gone atm. I am sad deconduo never give his thoughts on who I asked.
(Note i might be a few posts behind, posting from phone and addressing this atm)

Also random movements with claims is the way to go. You seem very adamant in following the plan even though there are little to no consequences for town. Why do you want to discredit the plans so much?

On May 16 2013 01:41 phagga wrote:
Oats:



I can't remember getting an answer from you.

On May 16 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:
lol we're definitely not lynching phagga

On May 16 2013 01:46 Oatsmaster wrote:

Why so downer marv.

On May 16 2013 01:47 phagga wrote:
and why do you want to lynch me?

On May 16 2013 02:00 marvellosity wrote:
People we probably shouldn't be lynching today:

marv (qtpie)
Oats (annoying tryhard/bullshitter)
Zeph
phagga
Blazing (probably)

People maybe we shouldn't lynch, but who knows:

Sharrant
deconduo

Distinctly lynchable:

fferyllt
ghost
Sentinel
Vivax
fuba

ez pz, right?

Not really my MO to lynch the dude who's thought about the game the most and made the most effort

On May 16 2013 06:28 Vivax wrote:
I would also lynch Oats. All he's done so far is troll, being disruptive and ask stupid questions. I've seen him do that as town last time but I don't care. This isn't a game with grushes and kushes and if he wants to be the one guy playing that role, then I'll gladly policy-kick him out of the game.

His defense of Sentinel doesn't make any sense.
He complains about setup talk when this is essentially a team board game.

No WIFOM mindfucks, lynch people playing for scum. Unless he starts contributing meaningfully, he's up for the gallows.

On May 16 2013 08:07 ghost_403 wrote:
I was inclined to lynch oats based on his general demeanor and unhelpfulness, but I'm inclined to listen to Blazinghand's interpretation of his play.

Also, lmao @ marv for voting me for the same reason he voted me last time we played. I flipped town.

I'm going to read the thread again and see if anything sticks out.

On May 16 2013 14:00 Blazinghand wrote:


I strongly oppose a policy lynch on Oats. I'm sure the guy is readable. the fact of the matter is, the guy acts like this always in themed games as town. If you lynch him you're saying "i personally don't like oats" at this point

now like i will be on him (and others) for productivity going forwards but based on oats acting like he literally always acts you can't say he's scum. all you can say is you don't like him

On May 16 2013 14:37 Blazinghand wrote:
that being said, I think vivax is certainly wrong for trying to lynch you. couching it as a policy lynch based on animus is scummy but it's the kind of thing a lower-tier player would think is actually legit so yeah

On May 16 2013 15:13 Blazinghand wrote:
i'd say vivax is on top of my hitlist

On May 16 2013 15:24 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah but that policy lynch is literally the most usefu lthing he's done all game

you know what yeah i'm right

as always

hey vivax time to get dunked

##vote vivax

On May 16 2013 17:16 mkfuba07 wrote:
Hey all. Sorry I've been completely inactive. I have one more final tomorrow and then I'm out for the summer. I've been keeping up as best I can, but I don't have any particularly convinced reads at the moment. I have a few people I'm averse to lynching, but that's about it.

I don't have any unique insight to add. I'm not really ready to place a vote, and I don't feel like I've seen anything I could point at and say, "Yes, I find this scummy." My D1 vote is probably going to the person who I have least reason to believe is town, but I won't be able to actively participate and figure out who that is until I'm done with my last exam in a few hours.

Oh, as for mechanics, etc. I'm down with the "reveal our movements shortly before the daypost" plan. It definitely seems best to at least find where we all are on the map, try to decrease the information advantage of the angels.

On May 16 2013 18:34 Vivax wrote:


To not get modkilled maybe.
Do you think that post looks scummy?

That post is so bad that I could see it coming from a townie, actually. I'd rather expect him to do some forced bullshit push, or jump on the bandwagon against me at this point, not apologize and admit that he's got nothing to contribute.

On May 16 2013 21:01 Vivax wrote:
@ Phagga

I feel he was needlessly antagonistic, and he didn't seem interested in setup discussion. He is more cooperative now though.

On May 16 2013 21:19 Vivax wrote:


If your whole reason for voting me is OMGUS, you will have to keep that vote on me brah

On May 16 2013 21:53 Vivax wrote:
We mustn't forget to talk about our moves though. Finding a good lynch target is fine, but not having the angels feed on us is possibly a higher priority than that. This game is won on the board for them.

I'm currently looking at B and J and they are close to each other, they are basically already in a pair, any idea on how they should move ideally?

On May 16 2013 22:31 mkfuba07 wrote:

I could see scum pointing out any action that a townie could accidentally take that would make him appear scummy to others. Actually, it's pretty much their main source of "scumreads".

On May 16 2013 22:31 Vivax wrote:
It's pretty obvious actually, everyone should be moving either left or right on the board. For example A I and E are at the upper and lower borders, so you risk being one of them not moving at all or having their flashlight not pointed on the board if you pick up or down as movement or face direction.

On May 16 2013 22:48 Vivax wrote:
I missed crossfire's post about how movement works. I was still stuck into thinking you pick a cardinal direction and have to move into just one direction.

On May 17 2013 00:05 mkfuba07 wrote:
So Oats, you don't believe vivax's excuse? Is there a particular reason?

On May 17 2013 00:44 Sharrant wrote:


I can't explain Vivax's thought patterns, but I can explain mine.

I fucking love puzzles, and thinking problems. The reason I signed up for this game is because it's a mafia game based on a puzzle essentially, so the first thing I did was look at the game to see if it could be solved as a puzzle or which solution would give us the greatest chance of winning.

You cannot work out moves for a subset of players (B and J) but what you can do, is work out an optimal list of ordered moves for players. The idea was to create a list that primarily moves players to the left of the board. Moving players to the left is going to give us more visual overlap. The ideal scenario would be all 12 players in a corner, against the wall, players on outer edges facing parallel to the wall, everyone else a step or two out from the wall randomly alternating the direction they're looking between perpendicular to the wall nearest them, and out from the group parallel to the wall nearest them. This makes it hardest for the angels to identify a pattern in which they can enter or get close to our group without being spotted. It also potentially outs puppets for making Angel favoured moves, or making improper reports.

Using Cardinal movements it was possible to begin moving players to the lower left hand corner, while giving a move pattern which would identify at least 50% of players, up to a possible 100%. The difference in potential identification is due to people running into walls/other players causing their actual movement to be inconsistent with their stated movement. There were certainly problems with my plan, but it seemed to be the optimal plan when cardinal movements were allowed.

Does that adequately explain it? I'm not sure if I'm capable of conveying it very well.

Can Angels feed AND use their conventional KP on the same night? If a player is fed upon are they killed that same night?

On May 17 2013 01:09 Sharrant wrote:


Sentinel:
His early game unprovoked defense of fferyllt was strange in a way that I do not see coming from a townie. His following start up of the bandwagon on Vivax and then hopping off strikes me as mafia motivated 9 times out of 10 because he had weak reasoning coming off of it, but didn't attempt to dissuade anyone else or comment on their positions about Vivax. Ergo: he wants the lynch to happen, but doesn't want to be on the lynch when it happens.

I haven't voted him yet because I still have more time to put into looking through the thread, if I don't find someone I think is more likely to be mafia than him, then he'll get my vote soon enough.

On May 17 2013 01:21 Sharrant wrote:


His odd defense I think has been gone over fairly solidly by others like Marv. He comes in to defend Ferryllt for seemingly no reason, with very strange logic. "It's someone who is just really over eager to post as town" "It was just a mistake that they posted a fluff post" "They were just so over eager that they forget that they were supposed to say anything in their post". It just read to me as someone trying to pick up a town buddy, but making some critical judgement errors along the way.

2. His reason for voting Vivax in the first place was "you wanted people to move at full speed, moving at full speed means that mafia will know who the weak people are to kill off, you must be mafia" That was his only scum read at the time. Later he just says "Okay, we'll just agree to disagree." and unvotes him.

On May 17 2013 01:38 marvellosity wrote:
I actually have remarkably little time between now and the deadline, which is annoying. Curses early deadline!

There are two main reasons I could lynch deconduo, since I keep canvassing opinion about it.

First of all, there's the drop and run case on ghost. It's an easy case for mafia to make (yes yes, I know I agreed with some of it), and besides it there's very little interactions or comments on other players. I did a check on some of his previous games earlier, in PYP Boardwalk, decon was pretty quick to offer comments on several different players, unlike here.

Secondly there's this post:



I still feel this plan is pretty mafia-motivated. As I understand how the movement rules work, giving pre-determined directions to players has massive benefits for mafia, because they know how the movements correspond to each player, which could help them determine how the hidden angels that we don't know about would move, while giving out information ahead of townies ahead of time is meaningless because they can't know who they are.

On May 17 2013 01:43 marvellosity wrote:
That's not what I wrote, please stop misrepresenting things Oats, it's very annoying.

On May 17 2013 02:05 marvellosity wrote:


if you take out what I said about meta, the point stands for itself. So no, the lynchpin is not meta.

On May 17 2013 10:38 Zephirdd wrote:


How did you send your PM to the hosts? This is important. Anyone reading this, do not answer.

Oatsmaster, how did you send your PM? How did you want to move?

On May 17 2013 11:04 ghost_403 wrote:


I wanted to move here.

That's a curious thing to say.

On May 17 2013 11:12 Zephirdd wrote:
okay that does NOT make any sense.
here is why:


The way this works is that we had to chose our directions without knowing where we would go. If we could just say "look up" then there is no point in not allowing "look north". What B did was Look right and move three steps forward.

What I think happened is simple. You asked to go up, and the hosts allowed it no problem because you already had prior knowledge of your own handle.

In other words, you just slipped hard. So, unless for some reason you have a role that gives you knowledge of your handle on day 01, I say you are an angel. Simple as that.

Vivax tunnel-vision on you day 1? That's about as standard of a scum bus as possible, ESPECIALLY when a lot of people in the thread had already voiced that you were acting as an annoying/abrasive townie.

##Vote Oatsmaster

On May 17 2013 11:18 ghost_403 wrote:
Or Oats. I think he scumslipped hard in that post I referenced. I'll put my vote on him for safe keeping.

On May 17 2013 14:09 Blazinghand wrote:
Well, Zephirdd is definitely town, as before. He wouldn't do this as scum.

Vivax/oats interaction doesn't seem to make a hyooj amount of sense for the oats=scum hypothesis just because, if I were scum and trying to get a stupid nonsensical case going against a somewhat incompetent player, I know I sure as hell wouldn't be doing it against a fellow scum guy. It's possible Vivax was busing/distancing Oats, I get that, but what's more likely to me is Vivax was lazy scum looking for an easy lynch and that Oats would be doable since Oats isn't very good. I don't have to make any weird leaps of logic for the "scum vivax launches a bad attack against incompetent Oats that gets himself lynched" theory. I DO have to make some weird assumptions for the "scum vivax launches a bad attack against his own incompetent Oats scumbuddy that gets himself lynched" theory.

I'm gonna get an associative tell + straight-up scumminess case on someone, probably not Oats, going soon. I'm gonna reread people's mentions of vivax and reread the voteswap shennannies at day end.

I never said I was useless on day 1, just that I don't spontaneously offer reads straight off the bat. Your case was 50% meta which I showed to be invalid. The other half of the case was based on me suggesting a bad plan, which I gave a counterpoint to that you haven't responded to...

Just popping in for a few minutes, looks like oats slipped hard.

##Vote Oatsmaster

I agree that oats' play day one wasn't particularly scummy. However that slip us way too blatant for us to ignore as a mistake. First of all oats would have to not read up on how the movement works,secondly the hosts would have to not inform him that he moved illegally and finally the hosts would have to willingly put his move through. If he is a blue that knows his position, why hasn't he at least soft claimed instead of disappearing off the face of the earth.

On May 18 2013 09:30 ghost_403 wrote:
Just noted that Zephh brought up that maybe Oats is a blue who knew his piece as part of his role. Possible, but I feel unlikely. A blue should (being the operative statement here) have stuck around to try and prove his use to the town. As a power role, they have responsibilities to make sure that they're not dead. That's not his reaction to this situation. Instead, he makes a few less than helpful comments and leaves the thread entirely. Either he's a blue who's rage quit, or he's a scum that got caught.

On May 18 2013 13:07 Sharrant wrote:
Oats, I like this post from you, but I'd just like you to give me a quick (one paragraph at most and no more than that) explanation of your movement claim. I don't have much time tonight or tomorrow before the deadline, but if you can explain it in a manner that makes sense to me, I'll reconsider. I do like your points on Deconduo, I'm interested in your thoughts on anyone you think is important right now. If I don't think your explanation matches up to what happened, I at least want as much information from you as I can get.

On May 18 2013 22:04 deconduo wrote:
Well seeing as I don't have much of a choice.

I'm Billy Shipton, a DT that can check people next to me. If I finish the turn next to someone, I get told they are town or not. If I finish next to multiple people, I get told how many are town. This is one of the reasons I suggested that everyone group together, it makes my role much more powerful. I also know that there is no godfather in the game.

I figure as I'm A and oats is B, if I move towards him and he moves towards me I can check him tonight. If I die, you know he's an angel and you can lynch him tomorrow. Alternatively Sentinel is within range of me checking them as well, but I still think oats is a better option.

On May 18 2013 23:52 deconduo wrote:


So you will move towards me? Grand

Also saying to lynch me if I survive is a bit stupid. While I fully expect to die, whats to stop mafia leaving me alive to save their KP for someone else and waste a lynch on me tomorrow?

On May 19 2013 00:00 deconduo wrote:


I don't get more checks if I'm lynched...

On May 19 2013 00:17 deconduo wrote:


I don't know what you mean?

On May 19 2013 00:23 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:


Everytime I make jokes people accuse me of being a scum

On May 19 2013 03:28 Blazinghand wrote:
Oatsmaster, this is important, fferyltt has NEVER TAKEN LEGIT STANCES. he's not playing the game. he's posting once every few days or whatever with oneliners. VOTE HIM

Decon and Oats are already close to each other, with the correct movements Sentinel and me can get to them as well. This is something that we should try to achieve IMO. I'd say ideally we make sure that we lit each other up (increased field of view), but don't get right next to each other (avoid kill through possible puppet) except for decon and Oats. What do you guys say about that?

On May 20 2013 23:22 ghost_403 wrote:


Honestly, I never bothered to read the game that he referenced. I was trusting in BH's integrity as a player. Only an idiot would give me the wrong conclusion before telling me to come to my own. And, yes, I did vote for him (at that point) strictly on the wording of his answer. His answer implies a certain mindset; one that knows more than us. His actions since then have reinforced my views on him.

On May 20 2013 23:26 ghost_403 wrote:
Explain what, Oats?

On May 20 2013 23:40 ghost_403 wrote:


If anyone other than Oats is interested in my thoughts on this, I'm happy to answer. I believe that I've made myself clear on this, but I'm happy to clear this up for anyone else.

On May 20 2013 23:48 ghost_403 wrote:
@oats: Since you seem to be a bit dense on this, let me spell it out for you. There is literally nothing I can say to change your view of your alignment. I'm not going to waste my breath on that. It's everyone else I have to convince. So if they want me to spell it out, I will.

Now, why don't you tell me who you'd like to lynch next. You've been awfully vague on that.

On May 20 2013 23:56 ghost_403 wrote:
And what if I don't? Then what?

On May 21 2013 00:15 ghost_403 wrote:
Sentinel I get, but why fuba? What do you make of his flashlight getting extinguished Night 1?

On May 21 2013 14:56 phagga wrote:

How do I play as scum?

On May 21 2013 15:16 phagga wrote:

Interesting.

I've never been scum. I rolled town in every game so far. So it's interesting that you can conclude that I'm town for meta reasons. And my normal town meta so far was "scummily lurk around the first few days without taking stances".

I'm still interested in who the second scum is in your opinion.

Next, given that I (pretty much) believe deconduo's claim, why in the hell is he alive? Sure, killing a confirmed townie in Zephirdd is good, but killing a DT that can still make checks seems better. So this leaves a few options: either deconduo is scum (which I doubt), scum were willing to throw away oats for almost nothing (also doubt - they had two entire nights to kill deconduo if they felt it necessary), or they gained something from this check. This brings me around to why phagga felt it would be better to get oats AND himself checked in the same night.

On May 21 2013 20:50 phagga wrote:

Sentinel. What's your take?

On May 22 2013 15:38 phagga wrote:

wait what? deconduo has a red check, you claim to be town, I claim to be town, someone is lying. How do you not try lynch the guy that is lying?

On May 22 2013 16:11 phagga wrote:

trying to read filters, I'm at work currently. I'll try to post more later, how long are you around today? (for how many more hours). You probably won't be here at deadline, right?

Oh, and as for oats's plan... I'm kind of against it.

On May 22 2013 16:17 mkfuba07 wrote:
I thought your plan was to lynch me... I'm opposed to it.
If the plan was simply to choose between sent and I, I guess I'm for it? I mean, you know my decision in that case XD

The reason I can't make a big case on him like I did with ghost and dec is that his lack of substance is spread all across his filter. Six pages of "what do you think of abcdefg" and sheep.

On May 23 2013 00:00 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:


I've never played with you. All I see is scum play so I vote for the person who I'm most convinced is scum. That would be you.