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On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:
So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle.
I did look at both games. I actually looked at NMM39 before you even brought him up. It's just that as of right now, I don't want to put too much faith in meta reads as I'm far more likely to look into the wrong things. I'm especially leery of using meta against a newer player as I don't think that meta transfers over games as well with newer players.
On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote:
And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.)
I agree that he's playing different from RED. I could see the failure to follow through on a plan in the role picking segment (once order was released) as being more related to how in general some people started to throw out accusations and head more towards scum hunting. As for dropping the "Geript Pod Plan" I don't have a good answer for that right now. I think it got shut out by various conversations and I want to go back and read that section more.
On April 07 2013 15:22 Mocsta wrote:
So if that is the case, im not following your prior comment.
Yes, town and scum both want the top pick. But do you expect town to go on a big spiel about plans; and then cease to contribute once the goal is achieved?
I think most of the plans weren't really terribly discussed but I need to go back and reread that whole section again. Will give a more firm answer in a bit.
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On April 07 2013 15:52 Shelvocke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:44 Mocsta wrote:On April 07 2013 15:39 Shelvocke wrote:
What do you mean? He seems to jump around based on what's going on in the thread. Thank you. so impulsive is then defined as: in response to others; rather than in creating new ideas. I dont see what is townie about that. Scum can be equally impulsive in regards to thread sentiment. However, I dont particularly care about the action itself: do you think his motives for "jumping around" is founded upon processing new information to update the conclusion? I get what you're saying, but I've never seen a new mafia player be so crazy. I don't really understand the reasons for some of the stuff he does but it seems to me that he sees one post and then just makes up his mind based on that. Usually new mafia are much more safe and concerned about their appearance. It's possible he's some kind of mafia gosu but frankly that's not the impression I get from him.
I understand what you are saying.
But keep in mind, he is a spammy player at heart. This implies he is aggressive/carefree/impulsive/confident in general, and thus; the typical mafia "too scared to post" heuristic, does not apply.
I was not scared to post in my first game as scum; in fact, I tried to take control of town.
Further, his scum game (whilst in a newbie) was still relatively spammy. So it really does come back down to motives for flipflopping.
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I wouldn't mind killing Snoman either.
....I believe our vigs should take care of him though, it seems like a better idea (instead of wasting a lynch on him).
I've ground less fond of Caller the more time goes on, wouldn't mind some pressure on him, and see how his read on Keirathi (and reads in general) evolved.
ObviousOne has completely disappeared since I called him out I think. This guy can be scum as well.
sinani could be scum, but there are some stuff that give me a gut feeling he's playing like his "misslynch bait" town persona. Dunno, it's just some of the stuff he posts. Wouldn't mind him getting pressured though
S&B I want him to do something meaningful before concluding anything about him
VE and RO should try and do something as well. I don't like them for lynch, but I don't like their passiveness this cycle so far either.
That leaves everybody I'm "suspicious" of right now I believe (others are null or I need more info/interactions/etc to do something)
That still leaves Artanis as the best lynch. So come on people! Sheep me :D
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On April 07 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
Girls.
VE totes town
Sn0 comes in here. Throws dirt on me, defends Vivax. LEAVES.
WHY? CAUSE HE IS SCUM BRO.
Vivax is scum for supporting bad plan.
And other things.
Seriously man.. you have an 8 page filter of blunt statements. You need to start fleshing things out if you want ppl to sheep you. Otherwise, if you want your standard play where you sheep others; comment on Rayn/SnB/Sinani
Rayn town/Vivax flips town rayn scum
SnB havent read.
Sinani seems to be his lurky self, again havent payed attention to him.
I dont need to, people already sheeping me 
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On April 07 2013 15:55 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:22 Mocsta wrote:
So if that is the case, im not following your prior comment.
Yes, town and scum both want the top pick. But do you expect town to go on a big spiel about plans; and then cease to contribute once the goal is achieved? I think most of the plans weren't really terribly discussed but I need to go back and reread that whole section again. Will give a more firm answer in a bit.
You dont need to read the section to answer the question.
I gave a hypothetical.
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On April 07 2013 15:13 yamato77 wrote:
Going to bed.
When I wake up tomorrow, I'm taking a look at this list of people:
VE
PALMAR
SINANI
MEAPAK
AUSTIN
One of them will get lynched.
Not down with a Sinani lynch today, Sinani's post in on the money to me (at least up until SNB). I need to review SNB for myself with gratuitous coffee. Green highlight makes sense to me.
On April 07 2013 14:48 sinani206 wrote:
I first want to say that this thread is spammed up to almost the point of unreadable... This is not how Town wins games. Secondly, out of the current lynch candidates, here are my opinions:
VisceraEyes: I was leaning scum before and he hasn't really done anything to change my mind besides participating a little bit more. To be on the safe side, I'll say null with a red tinge.
Keirathi: Null atm, nothing pointing him at being scum, but don't want to say definitely townie so soon. I just played in RTP with him and he seems to be playing rather similarly, so if I had to pick I'd say town.
Restraining Order: Very difficult to read, so I'll wait to see more of him and on him.
StrongandBig: Actually looks like he could be scum. Playing very differently than he did in RTP and I agree with the cases made on him. He seems to be playing a typical earlygame conservative scum strategy, skirting discussion and leading people in the wrong direction. I'll slap my vote on him for now.
##Vote: StrongandBig
Added notes:
VE: I've been aware he's in two games since I am/was on the replacement list for his other game (Noir Mini I) so I expect this game to suffer more due to the nature of Noir being instant majority. I'll review him as we approach the midpoint of day so there's hopefully something more there.
Keirathi: I'm more green than null on Kei, but that's more bias based on how I perceive him as a person than a player so now that he's finished jerking off for 12 hours straight [lol take a nap, dude] should be able to identify if my bias is clouding my perception of him.
RO: He's another one I will want to review before the midpoint of day. I believe I mentioned earlier his D0 was more helpful/proactive than he was all game in LX [my opinion, didn't review LX] so he's at least Null.
Gonna read SNB and GhorVivax for now. ObviousOne not sure if Vivax comrade in arms or comrade in war.
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Oh yeah forgot about rayn...
....I'll see how that plays out.
I don't believe this "he didn't talk about planning even when he got top 5 in draft order!" thing has that much merit though...
...the "He tunneled RO out of nowhere", the "he was so calm and made sense and now is trolling and being completely useless for no reason", and the "he hasn't contributed much at all" reasons are much more valid IMO
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Seems everybody is ignoring me...
......don't
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Yeah Gonzaw.
I disagree that Artanis is scum.
Pure gut read so meh.
If you got the time, look at British 2.
Is he similar to there? Or different.
Why not Vivax?
Also Im up for a sn0man lynch for being UTTERLY USELESS.
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EBWOP:
And not scum,
I have no reason to think that sn0 man is scum other than his chainsaw defense of Vivax and his hard defense of Vivax.
and his lurkyness
Relationships not good with no flips.
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On April 07 2013 16:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah Gonzaw.
I disagree that Artanis is scum.
Pure gut read so meh.
If you got the time, look at British 2.
Is he similar to there? Or different.
Why not Vivax?
Also Im up for a sn0man lynch for being UTTERLY USELESS.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400346&user=19729
lol Artanis is playing NOTHING LIKE his town play in British 2
Do you have anything specific about it that makes me wrong? It seems it only makes me more sure he's scum >_>
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On April 07 2013 16:08 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 16:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah Gonzaw.
I disagree that Artanis is scum.
Pure gut read so meh.
If you got the time, look at British 2.
Is he similar to there? Or different.
Why not Vivax?
Also Im up for a sn0man lynch for being UTTERLY USELESS.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400346&user=19729lol Artanis is playing NOTHING LIKE his town play in British 2 Do you have anything specific about it that makes me wrong? It seems it only makes me more sure he's scum >_>
nopey
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So what "gut feeling" do you have that he's town?
Why is my case bad, why is Vivax more likely scum than Artanis?
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I encourage you guys to read Artanis' filter from British 2
See how "outgoing" he is there. See how he interacts with other people, pressures others, is not afraid to post
Now reread my case and check his filter this game. See the "fear" in his posts, for instance those 2 I mention where he's posting fluff and "cramming down too much bullshit".
They are 2 completely different playstyles.
Artanis was town in British 2
Therefore, Artanis is scum this time.
Meapak, why did you suddenly forget about Artanis, when he was actually getting more and more suspicious? I think you said something like "nobody except sinani resembles a decent lynch", so what about the guy you called out for "hiding in plain sight" before, who did nothing to convince you otherwise, is not a decent lynch?
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On April 07 2013 16:19 gonzaw wrote:
I encourage you guys to read Artanis' filter from British 2
See how "outgoing" he is there. See how he interacts with other people, pressures others, is not afraid to post
Now reread my case and check his filter this game. See the "fear" in his posts, for instance those 2 I mention where he's posting fluff and "cramming down too much bullshit".
They are 2 completely different playstyles.
Artanis was town in British 2
Therefore, Artanis is scum this time.
Meapak, why did you suddenly forget about Artanis, when he was actually getting more and more suspicious? I think you said something like "nobody except sinani resembles a decent lynch", so what about the guy you called out for "hiding in plain sight" before, who did nothing to convince you otherwise, is not a decent lynch?
Meta rules require you to compare a scum game as well, INB4 Keirathi/Yamato yells at you
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On April 04 2013 19:33 strongandbig wrote:
Afaik pyp games are often determined by "this bullshit". The picking phase strategy is a big part of the game.
And I sort of agree with denying scum roles, but we should limit it to one or maybe two roles, because if we have strong consensus townies early in the order then giving them actual good roles could be very powerful.
Also oats the draft order is public knowledge.
On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw
On April 07 2013 06:07 strongandbig wrote:
Lol when did I consider the number picking strategy to be very important
Afaik i haven't posted anything of substance since the game started, but I'm a little confused about what you meant by "concerned about roles" when the game started?
I'm not sure how these are inconsistent thoughts, though that's the majority of his contribution towards D0 discussion outside of his demands to pick inventor. Did people misunderstand his first post I selected here "picking phase strategy" to mean number picks was important? He only seemed to feel that the role picking was the important part of D0... I'm not really seeing ANYTHING that is strongly alignment indicative, but maybe that was why people want to vote him? Doesn't look like a great lynch but maybe some votes will light a fire under his butt to do something/anything. I'll take a second look later in day phase, unless someone here wants to point out what exactly about him was scummy. (linking/quoting the case if it was yours or you remember who wrote it, plzthx)
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On April 07 2013 16:23 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 16:19 gonzaw wrote:
I encourage you guys to read Artanis' filter from British 2
See how "outgoing" he is there. See how he interacts with other people, pressures others, is not afraid to post
Now reread my case and check his filter this game. See the "fear" in his posts, for instance those 2 I mention where he's posting fluff and "cramming down too much bullshit".
They are 2 completely different playstyles.
Artanis was town in British 2
Therefore, Artanis is scum this time.
Meapak, why did you suddenly forget about Artanis, when he was actually getting more and more suspicious? I think you said something like "nobody except sinani resembles a decent lynch", so what about the guy you called out for "hiding in plain sight" before, who did nothing to convince you otherwise, is not a decent lynch?
Meta rules require you to compare a scum game as well, INB4 Keirathi/Yamato yells at you
There are no "meta rules"
So do you agree or not? My case alone stands by itself and I used no meta at all.
The fact his recent (I think) town play is so different in an "obvious" way just adds to it.
You are also free to check a scum game from his that "discredits" my case or something. Remember that people can play differently as scum at times. For proof check my scum games from Liar Game and Themed Game Mafia
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On April 07 2013 16:27 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 16:23 ObviousOne wrote:On April 07 2013 16:19 gonzaw wrote:
I encourage you guys to read Artanis' filter from British 2
See how "outgoing" he is there. See how he interacts with other people, pressures others, is not afraid to post
Now reread my case and check his filter this game. See the "fear" in his posts, for instance those 2 I mention where he's posting fluff and "cramming down too much bullshit".
They are 2 completely different playstyles.
Artanis was town in British 2
Therefore, Artanis is scum this time.
Meapak, why did you suddenly forget about Artanis, when he was actually getting more and more suspicious? I think you said something like "nobody except sinani resembles a decent lynch", so what about the guy you called out for "hiding in plain sight" before, who did nothing to convince you otherwise, is not a decent lynch?
Meta rules require you to compare a scum game as well, INB4 Keirathi/Yamato yells at you There are no "meta rules" So do you agree or not? My case alone stands by itself and I used no meta at all. The fact his recent (I think) town play is so different in an "obvious" way just adds to it. You are also free to check a scum game from his that "discredits" my case or something. Remember that people can play differently as scum at times. For proof check my scum games from Liar Game and Themed Game Mafia
That's not what I'm getting at here, though, and I will go take a look at an Artanis scum game after I post this, but you cannot say "IF HE DOESNT MATCH TOWN HE MUST BE SCUM" because that's based on imperfect information. This precise shit came up in RED. You need to show how it more closely resembles a mafia game, not just how it doesn't resemble a town game. BRB after database check.
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On April 05 2013 10:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
4 scum.
RO, Oats, MZ, Caller :D
On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway  currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D
On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats is bad town or scum.
Artanis is .. hmm.. idk..
sharrant almost definitely town.
deconduo, leaning on scum at him.
RO = scum. kill him <3
This feels like an exceptionally odd interaction. Caller he later on takes time to call town for no reason. But Rayn never shows another opinion on MZ even commenting on a change. As a matter of fact the last real opinion I saw on MZ was:
On April 05 2013 12:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
M_Z:
He is non- committal, that makes me think he might be scum.
What I find so odd about this interaction is that Rayn apparently continues to think MZ is scum but his post going over MZ's reads don't convey that at all. He doesn't even actually interact with him, put any pressure on him or try and engage MZ's reads. I don't see MZ as being terribly committal on his reads yet Rayn doesn't follow up on that at all. He just seems to be bouncing towards whatever the present case is on as said case comes up. I do find it interesting that Rayn doesn't give an opinion at all on Artanis especially after reading Gonzaw's case.
##vote Rayn
VE what are you opinions of the cases on Rayn and Artanis?
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EPT
