EPTI agree that artanis looks scummy.
I still want to lynch Vivax though, Im way more familar with his play and this does not feel like his town play.
Also he is scummy!?!?!
(so wishywashy right?
)Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 65
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
I agree that artanis looks scummy. I still want to lynch Vivax though, Im way more familar with his play and this does not feel like his town play. Also he is scummy!?!?! (so wishywashy right? ) | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 07 2013 16:31 ObviousOne wrote: That's not what I'm getting at here, though, and I will go take a look at an Artanis scum game after I post this, but you cannot say "IF HE DOESNT MATCH TOWN HE MUST BE SCUM" because that's based on imperfect information. This precise shit came up in RED. You need to show how it more closely resembles a mafia game, not just how it doesn't resemble a town game. BRB after database check. I never said anything about his meta until Oats convinced me to look at a game of his (still don't know what makes Oats think Artanis is town though). AFTER checking that game of his, the differences in play are pretty astonishing, which convinces me my case is right even more. It's not "IF HE DOESNT MATCH TOWN HE MUST BE SCUM" at all. Geript, can you comment on my case please? I can't see how the stuff brought against rayn is any stronger than what I've posted about Artanis, and it seems you've read my case | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 07 2013 16:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw you understand what I mean by GUT READ? (it means I felt that he was town reading the thread.) I agree that artanis looks scummy. I still want to lynch Vivax though, Im way more familar with his play and this does not feel like his town play. Also he is scummy!?!?! (so wishywashy right? )Ehmm....generally when posting gut reads you have to give a slight indication of what gives you said read. Was it something specific he said that gave you townie points? Was it some specific behaviour of his? A specific interaction with another player? Something specific he said? Give more details bro. I have dozens and dozens of gut reads when I play as town, but I try my best to explain WHY I have them. At least try, specially when you even agree Artanis is scummy and apparently agree with my case. I'll have to reread Vivax even more, but I doubt my read on him will change from what I posted earlier. I'm eager to see what he does now that he seemingly backed off RO. Also Oats no offense but in this post you sound like a retard >_> lol | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Artanis[XP] mafia meta highlights based on his one recorded scum game in the database: Haunted Mafia - Replaced into game at P64 - GG out P116 - Total of perhaps 8 "useful" posts over 50 pages Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]: - Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games - Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool - Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself - Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction I'm looking for something more recent, but Artanis tends to host games rather than play... search filter only went back to March 2012 and the database shows no scum games other than Haunted. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
That was at a point where I thought he was like this in British. AND CLEARLY HE WASNT. So my basis for my gutread was wrong. With 20+ players, any other reads Gonzaw? Also im totes town right  You know how i play scum | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 07 2013 16:48 ObviousOne wrote: @Gonzaw: Artanis[XP] mafia meta highlights based on his one recorded scum game in the database: Haunted Mafia - Replaced into game at P64 - GG out P116 - Total of perhaps 8 "useful" posts over 50 pages Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]: - Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games - Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool - Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself - Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction I'm looking for something more recent, but Artanis tends to host games rather than play... search filter only went back to March 2012 and the database shows no scum games other than Haunted. That game was 2 years ago bro. Good effort I guess though lol (damn I'm not sounding very wise lately  )Hmm,...this gives me a good feeling about you though. If Artanis is scum, I see no reason for you to go checking all his gaming history to not push any scum agenda at all (even if artanis is town this still holds true) On April 07 2013 16:49 Oatsmaster wrote: Haha. That was at a point where I thought he was like this in British. AND CLEARLY HE WASNT. So my basis for my gutread was wrong. With 20+ players, any other reads Gonzaw? Also im totes town right You know how i play scumRead my posts. I'd say Sno is the other guy most likely to be scum. Nobody else did much to get a good scumread on, rather than null reads and null-leaning-red reads (which I've already expanded on). Anyways, I'm not calling you scum. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
which you did expand on. I didnt say you called me scum So what are you going to do now? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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geript
10024 Posts
On April 07 2013 16:42 gonzaw wrote: Geript, can you comment on my case please? I can't see how the stuff brought against rayn is any stronger than what I've posted about Artanis, and it seems you've read my case I don't wholly buy into the hiding in the setup stuff. It could likely be said of a few people. I even got my idea of draft pods partially from his RNG idea. I think your most damning point in the first part is that he neither tries to push why his ideas are good or better especially when his plan only works for 1-3 roles. It just seems far, far more questionable that he's just trying to throw out an idea without any reasoning behind it and doesn't care to assert himself. But I don't know anything about Artanis so that might be typical for him; it does seem odd that he was so carefree about setup and so hard to try and push me. I could see that as being related to that due to Draft phase being Day -1, Post draft being Day 0 and the extended foreplay really being done. As for complaining, in my experience complaining players are perhaps slightly more likely to be scum, but I wouldn't put it past 55%-45%. I get that those posts say mostly nothing, but I could see something like this come from busy/disinterested town. My distinct impression of the Artanis case when he posted it was a few things: First, Is this some sort of Chainsaw? Second, this seems like an odd set of things to be pointing out. Third, initially it feels like a case that came from town not scum (but this is completely a gut read). It does somewhat remind me of things that we'd look for last game as scum, but I have a hard time taking that seriously. I doubt it was ever meant as an actual case; it's either to discredit pressure on Keirathi at the time or discredit me attacking VE or just to appear active. The odder thing about the case IMO is that I actually thought these points + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Asking people whether you can sheep them isn't exactly the height of taking responsibility. Antagonizing people that refuse to play along with your plan because they want to approach the game in a different way, single line comments about players you find suspicious then asking other people what they think about them rather than fleshing out your own opinion, all the while focussing on your own plan. I'd rather you reply to the mini case I made though as it contains the stronger points. The sixth point I think is actually the most damning. That is essentially how I slid through the last game. Granted this point is moot if you're scum. Overall the case isn't bad, I prefer the Rayn case. I want to get some sleep before I reread everything tomorrow. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On April 07 2013 17:14 gonzaw wrote: I'll wait until people start sheeping me I guess. I just finished catching up on the thread. Agree with the points. At first I didnt mind him propelling himself into the thread with his RNG idea.. but i think that is the key to why he is scum. Reminds me of a scum game, where I had a lurker in my team; and i told him specifically to just post your thoughts into the middle of a convo, to stand out.. cos "scum dont do that". You are right Gonzaw, artanis doesnt have conviction in any idea that he pushes; everything is half-assed. ##Unvote ##Vote: Artanis[Xp] | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On April 07 2013 17:19 geript wrote: I don't wholly buy into the hiding in the setup stuff. It could likely be said of a few people. I even got my idea of draft pods partially from his RNG idea. I think your most damning point in the first part is that he neither tries to push why his ideas are good or better especially when his plan only works for 1-3 roles. It just seems far, far more questionable that he's just trying to throw out an idea without any reasoning behind it and doesn't care to assert himself. But I don't know anything about Artanis so that might be typical for him; it does seem odd that he was so carefree about setup and so hard to try and push me. I could see that as being related to that due to Draft phase being Day -1, Post draft being Day 0 and the extended foreplay really being done. As for complaining, in my experience complaining players are perhaps slightly more likely to be scum, but I wouldn't put it past 55%-45%. I get that those posts say mostly nothing, but I could see something like this come from busy/disinterested town. My distinct impression of the Artanis case when he posted it was a few things: First, Is this some sort of Chainsaw? Second, this seems like an odd set of things to be pointing out. Third, initially it feels like a case that came from town not scum (but this is completely a gut read). It does somewhat remind me of things that we'd look for last game as scum, but I have a hard time taking that seriously. I doubt it was ever meant as an actual case; it's either to discredit pressure on Keirathi at the time or discredit me attacking VE or just to appear active. The odder thing about the case IMO is that I actually thought these points + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Asking people whether you can sheep them isn't exactly the height of taking responsibility. Antagonizing people that refuse to play along with your plan because they want to approach the game in a different way, single line comments about players you find suspicious then asking other people what they think about them rather than fleshing out your own opinion, all the while focussing on your own plan. I'd rather you reply to the mini case I made though as it contains the stronger points. The sixth point I think is actually the most damning. That is essentially how I slid through the last game. Granted this point is moot if you're scum. Overall the case isn't bad, I prefer the Rayn case. I want to get some sleep before I reread everything tomorrow. Firstly, your play has really stepped up this game. I feel strongly enough about this to publicly say it. Well done. I will eat my hat if you are scum. (luckily i dont wear hats  )Secondly, The Artanis case felt like.. he took my "scum slip" comment; and decided you were lynch bait and tried to fabricate a case around it. Its highly probable thats why he felt the need to add it as the final piece to his case; for reenforcement. Thirdly, I really like how in your exchange between Rayn/MZ. Rayn has reads on everyone, except conveniently Artanis - obviously association read here. Look i like a lynch on SnB/Rayn/Artanis for this cycle. I think Artanis should be lynched for a combination of both, solid case, and solid experience. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
So that's not really an "association" or anything, more than it is an association with VE, or RO, or anybody else. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
Why not Vivax. Really Mocsta/Geript. And anyone else. Why is Vivax not the scummiest shit in this game? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On April 07 2013 17:30 gonzaw wrote: Everybody "conveniently" left out Artanis from their talk, even Meapak who called him out previously, except some specific players when he made the case (BM, you, yamato and geript). So that's not really an "association" or anything, more than it is an association with VE, or RO, or anybody else. I assume you = me If so, your the second "old-school" player taht has disagreed with me regarding association definition? WTF? Association is calling someone scum due to association relationship, without seeing a flip. So yes, leaving all the other shit about Rayn aside: calling him scum due to not giving a read on Artanis is association, as Artanis has not yet flipped. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy. At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 07 2013 17:35 Mocsta wrote: I assume you = me If so, your the second "old-school" player taht has disagreed with me regarding association definition? WTF? Association is calling someone scum due to association relationship, without seeing a flip. So yes, leaving all the other shit about Rayn aside: calling him scum due to not giving a read on Artanis is association, as Artanis has not yet flipped. I meant it's not a valid association read. At least no more valid than saying "VE is scum because he made a case against RO to deflect attention off Artanis and didn't mention Artanis at all!" or "Obvious/RO are scum for only mentioning geript and not Artanis in that exchange!" or "Meapak is scum because he is ignoring Artanis even after he called him out!" or "Everybody else is scum for not even mentioning Artanis in the first place!" Bear in mind some of these I mentioned might actually be right | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9387 Posts
On April 07 2013 17:37 gonzaw wrote: You are getting annoying Oats. There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy. At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf? I agree Oats is getting annoying. But not with Vivax is super town; OR ppl have told oats otherwise. i dont recall anyone sticking up for Vivax... o.0 | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 07 2013 17:37 gonzaw wrote: You are getting annoying Oats. There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy. At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf? *There is a 10.000 word essay... *but that's so uncharacteristic of him that... fuck grammar | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On April 07 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote: I agree Oats is getting annoying. But not with Vivax is super town; OR ppl have told oats otherwise. i dont recall anyone sticking up for Vivax... o.0 No, Vivax is acting "normal", as in like what any other normal player would act normally in a normal game. He makes some sense at times as well Remembering back on LIX.....this is surprising and very very weird. Maybe he just got better? I dunno He's not obvs town like others, but he's certainly not the "scummiest shit" in the game, and I'd leave him be until he does something else besides his push of RO (which he apparently backed out of, thus he needs to do something, and we need to watch closely what he does) | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16627 Posts
Why does the number of words made in a case against someone make him scummier? Also it tells me that Artanis is scummy, not why he is scummier than Vivax. You are the one sounding childish dude. People are ignoring Vivax. Its dumb. | ||
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