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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On April 05 2013 22:57 Restraining Order wrote: Yeah. You could also both be [1, 1], sno, 2 or 3, obvious 3 or 4. etc etc. Not enough claims to make the list 100% foolproof true. you seem awfully sure meapakk was 6 tho | ||
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Restraining Order
Qatar276 Posts
You seem awfully unwilling to say what you picked yourself. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On April 05 2013 22:56 austinmcc wrote: I was [8][4] Having people take KP roles and then lynching them if they ever hit town is sillypants. I have not seen any multi-shot vigis hit only scum. And vigis probably aren't even 50/50 across the board hitting scum with the first shot. So instead, what we get is someone who THINKS that they're going to do better than the average vigi, probably still hits town, and then we spend a lynch killing a townie who thought he could be an outlier. Even if you choose vigi and shoot scum then town, congrats. We are now supposed to lynch you and than means we lost 2 townies for one scum player AND had to use a lynch on you. Don't like town KP roles using it, because scum NEEDS extra KP flying around to win. Don't like planning for what happens if town KP roles use it, because they shouldn't be, except in corner cases where we have investigations we trust or something of that sort. So you are suggesting town dont use KP right? The point of lynching dudes if they hit town, its a policy. POLICY. Its supposed to give really really bad odds for scum to claim vig/ get outed after they shot town. Also discourages town from using KP. Its optimal for town to not use their KP. Other than lynches | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:05 Restraining Order wrote: You seem awfully unwilling to say what you picked yourself. because its more fun this way answer the question tho and other people better claim numbers before i start shooting. | ||
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Restraining Order
Qatar276 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:14 Caller wrote: because its more fun this way answer the question tho and other people better claim numbers before i start shooting. What is there to answer? I said it's not a 100% list and only a rough outline twice now, I don't think saying it a third time will fare any better, but I suppose I just did say it a third time, so there you go. Have fun shooting yourself. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:15 Restraining Order wrote: What is there to answer? I said it's not a 100% list and only a rough outline twice now, I don't think saying it a third time will fare any better, but I suppose I just did say it a third time, so there you go. Have fun shooting yourself. So why don't you repost that list with my suggested correction, no? ^_^ | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:10 Oatsmaster wrote: I am suggesting that town don't use KP. There will be corner cases - DT checks, possibly to keep any heavy lurkers we have out of the lynch discussion later on by shooting them a couple days in, etc.So you are suggesting town dont use KP right? The point of lynching dudes if they hit town, its a policy. POLICY. Its supposed to give really really bad odds for scum to claim vig/ get outed after they shot town. Also discourages town from using KP. Its optimal for town to not use their KP. Other than lynches But in general, I don't think town should be firing off KP because, imo, the more quick deaths the better for scum this game. A longer game in which people have roles, we have checks, we have confirmations of role uses and whatnot, is going to favor town. It simply gets more and more difficult to hide that you chose a mafia-favored role or used your role in a mafia-ish manner. So the longer the game goes, better for town, therefore the less KP thrown around, better for town. If someone really wants to hero it up with KP, there's the magical compulsive scum-only vigi in the game. There's the assassin. I think it's BETTER for town to take the normal KP roles and not use them, because of the above paragraph, but if the only thing you're going to do this game is grab a KP role, flop your e-peen on the table, and shoot scum, then use one of those two roles. That way you don't hit townies and we don't need to discuss policy lynching people who shoot townies. | ||
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Restraining Order
Qatar276 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:17 Caller wrote: So why don't you repost that list with my suggested correction, no? ^_^ Because that would in no way be more likely to be accurate. If you want to say you picked 6, say you picked 6. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:23 Restraining Order wrote: Because that would in no way be more likely to be accurate. If you want to say you picked 6, say you picked 6. why would it not be as accurate? you just said its not 100%. so my version is just as valid, no? just post my suggestion, please. I would like it to be there as I feel it is just as valid as your previous theory, assuming your assumptions are true. im also too lazy to do it myself. not gonna claim yet tho ^_^ | ||
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Restraining Order
Qatar276 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:25 Caller wrote: why would it not be as accurate? you just said its not 100%. so my version is just as valid, no? just post my suggestion, please. I would like it to be there as I feel it is just as valid as your previous theory, assuming your assumptions are true. im also too lazy to do it myself. not gonna claim yet tho ^_^ How about no. | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
i'll shoot you if you don't | ||
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:18 austinmcc wrote: I am suggesting that town don't use KP. There will be corner cases - DT checks, possibly to keep any heavy lurkers we have out of the lynch discussion later on by shooting them a couple days in, etc. But in general, I don't think town should be firing off KP because, imo, the more quick deaths the better for scum this game. A longer game in which people have roles, we have checks, we have confirmations of role uses and whatnot, is going to favor town. It simply gets more and more difficult to hide that you chose a mafia-favored role or used your role in a mafia-ish manner. So the longer the game goes, better for town, therefore the less KP thrown around, better for town. If someone really wants to hero it up with KP, there's the magical compulsive scum-only vigi in the game. There's the assassin. I think it's BETTER for town to take the normal KP roles and not use them, because of the above paragraph, but if the only thing you're going to do this game is grab a KP role, flop your e-peen on the table, and shoot scum, then use one of those two roles. That way you don't hit townies and we don't need to discuss policy lynching people who shoot townies. This is why we have a policy so people dont go. 'I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM, sry dont lynch please' Yeah. If we dont have a policy, town doesnt have as strong a reason to stop using KP. Getting lynched is a pretty strong preventive for hero plays I think. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Given past results, I don't think a policy would stop behavior, and I don't think we'd follow through on the policy. We've already got a game with 5 scum and a couple players known for trolling, I don't see the upside of adding policy lynch targets to that mix balancing out the upside of people just not shooting. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:36 austinmcc wrote: I rarely see ACTUAL policy lynches go through, though. Nor has everyone agreed to this. It seems much more like what would happen is townies die and then we have a whole side conversation every day about who shot the townie and who needs to get policy lynched and blah blah blah. Given past results, I don't think a policy would stop behavior, and I don't think we'd follow through on the policy. We've already got a game with 5 scum and a couple players known for trolling, I don't see the upside of adding policy lynch targets to that mix balancing out the upside of people just not shooting. Why is it bad to have a policy If you shoot town, AND WE KNOW. You get lynched? It was mentioned earlier that there was a ton of KP in themed and thats kinda how town lost, as well as in Personality. 5 people got nukes. 4 of them used them on TOWNIES. So I think its a really good policy and we should do it. The reason this is different, is cause its COMPLETELY obvious and also You have to be PROACTIVE to get policy lynched, not like lurky or whatever. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 05 2013 23:39 Oatsmaster wrote: It is not bad to have that policy, per se.Why is it bad to have a policy If you shoot town, AND WE KNOW. You get lynched? It was mentioned earlier that there was a ton of KP in themed and thats kinda how town lost, as well as in Personality. 5 people got nukes. 4 of them used them on TOWNIES. So I think its a really good policy and we should do it. The reason this is different, is cause its COMPLETELY obvious and also You have to be PROACTIVE to get policy lynched, not like lurky or whatever. It is unreasonable to assume that people will policy lynch folks instead of scumreads/lurkers/whatever. If you know of a game in which the playerbase actually policy lynched multiple folks based of some policy that they created in the game, let me know. Otherwise, consider that it is highly unlikely that "HAI GAIZ THIS IZ POLICY" will yield lynches according to that policy. I dislike the policy itself. It's goal is to keep town KP directed at scum. Which it doesn't do at all. Townies who think they might get mislynched if they shoot townies don't magically have better aim. In no way does the "policy" actually improve shots. Instead, what it does is encourage NOT SHOOTING, which we can do without policy lynching, because "don't shoot" is better than "the idea of shooting should be less good because we'll totally burn a day mislynching a townie if you shoot town." One says please don't be dumb. The other says, "Oh boy, you guys are gonna be dumb, and town as a whole is going to mislynch to punish that stupidity!" I'm more interested in hearing from Keirathi about this, actually. He proposed the lynches, and I'd like to know why he thinks this sounds like a good idea, and why he thinks it would actually work in a game. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Having a policy isn't "bad." But I think this is actually not a good policy, and I think it's entirely unreasonable to expect people to policy lynch no matter what policy you propose. Let alone that you're trying to organize policy lynches, which I don't recall seeing ever work, in a game in which there are multiple roles that give extra votes/vote steals/end day early powers/multi-lynches/etc. etc. etc. You are attempting to control town in a manner that towns don't normally cooperate with, and in a game where you can't ensure control. That is another issue. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6785 Posts
Have you ever seen LAL lynch a scum? Have you ever seen the current plan you're spouting work? Hint hint, the vast majority of the time they just kills idiots trying to be scum. Now before you say "but meapak scum can just make that argument to get away" I'll say this, scum are typically too scared to try it outside of a few fantastic players, none of whom are in this game. I'm on my phone otherwise I'd find an appropriate pict | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Austin, if you get a KP role, and you are town, and you would be lynched if you hit town, would you do it? That is the kind of motivation there is. Other than 'I know its a bad idea, BUT IM SURE. Oh shit he was town, welp.' Like prevention is better than the cure. The idea is that the threat of dying and therefore wasting a lynch, and 2 townies dead, is not worth the shot. Rather than just 1 townie dead. Which one is worse for town? Again, this policy lynch is different from the others because 1. You can just not shoot. 2. Its really easy to avoid the policy 3. SCUM GAIN A REALLY BIG advantage if you break the policy. So just dont fucking break it. Easy. The goal of the policy is for dudes to NOT SHOOT. If scum want to sacrifice their teammate we want to encourage that as much as possible | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6785 Posts
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