EPTThe Game [N] - Page 153
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
geript
10024 Posts
| ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On March 30 2013 16:30 DarthPunk wrote: You should have listened to me Town. You also thought I was scum. How the hell did you know who I was going to target that night though? Before Zare every person I targeted was someone who I wasn't directly focusing on! | ||
|
geript
10024 Posts
| ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
I'd really like some analysis of this game by anyone who can do it... DrH how did you screw up exactly and did you fix it? | ||
|
DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On March 30 2013 16:33 WaveofShadow wrote: You also thought I was scum. How the hell did you know who I was going to target that night though? Before Zare every person I targeted was someone who I wasn't directly focusing on! Yeah. But I also told town to lynch Kita and Ryu, and to lynch you if you were still alive and claimed a red check on Zarepath. | ||
|
DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On March 30 2013 16:34 geript wrote: He didn't know at all. He just thought you were scum and going to try and secure a mislynch. If you are scum fake claiming that is what I would have done. Claimed a red check on the person I had just made a gigantic case on at LYLO. The fact is zarepath was so incredibly obviously town that if you had claimed a red check on him it would have meant 100% you were lying. The fact that you did two nights in a row exactly what I would have done if fake claiming as scum and why you did that is something only you can answer. | ||
|
RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 30 2013 16:33 geript wrote: 2 KP until we get down to 2 scum when it becomes 1. Yah DP, I tried to get them onto the bus. They just wouldn't listen. why bus when you can just win? People always talk about bussing as if you have to do it, you don't. It's only needed if it has a purpose and draws town away from the bussers. Sometimes it's done just because, and the remaining members don't get any benefit from the bus and die anyway. In fact, that happens a lot more often than you think. Bussing confers only indirect advantages, at best, no direct ones. In fact, a wrong bus is a direct DISadvantage, inherently, because you lose a mafia member. BTW if BH had sent in the correct actions n1 (RB+shoot VE instead of RB+shoot keir) we would have won a cycle earlier, lol | ||
|
DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
| ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
On March 30 2013 16:38 DarthPunk wrote: If you are scum fake claiming that is what I would have done. Claimed a red check on the person I had just made a gigantic case on at LYLO. The fact is zarepath was so incredibly obviously town that if you had claimed a red check on him it would have meant 100% you were lying. The fact that you did two nights in a row exactly what I would have done if fake claiming as scum and why you did that is something only you can answer. Where do you get two nights in a row? I barely mentioned Vivax at all and he was killed; it just so happened that my N2/N3 checks were both killed so even if I was roleblocked it wouldn't have mattered. I'm going through the scum QT now to try and get an idea of what was going on; it seems as though there were a lot of fuckups in general from both host and night action type stuff. | ||
|
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Kind of sad I died so soon before I even finished reading the thread. Glad I made Ryu sweat a little before I died though :D Edit: also glad I kept zare from getting mislynched day 2! | ||
|
DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On March 30 2013 16:42 WaveofShadow wrote: Where do you get two nights in a row? I barely mentioned Vivax at all and he was killed; it just so happened that my N2/N3 checks were both killed so even if I was roleblocked it wouldn't have mattered. I'm going through the scum QT now to try and get an idea of what was going on; it seems as though there were a lot of fuckups in general from both host and night action type stuff. Let me rephrase things. all your checks were bad in such a way that somehow when you should have been confirmed town beyond all argument you were in fact not shot and set up as a mislynch. | ||
|
RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 30 2013 16:42 WaveofShadow wrote: Where do you get two nights in a row? I barely mentioned Vivax at all and he was killed; it just so happened that my N2/N3 checks were both killed so even if I was roleblocked it wouldn't have mattered. I'm going through the scum QT now to try and get an idea of what was going on; it seems as though there were a lot of fuckups in general from both host and night action type stuff. there were only two, and the host thing was minorly frustrating but not that bad. I intended on trashing the thread with DP but that would've been more work on my part than what ended up happening when he died. I predicted that if I got into a fight with DP then neither of us would be touched by the lynch, as no one would listen to us, and then it would be easy to lynch whomever. BH on n1 accidentally sent in shoot + RB keirathi, shoot VE instead of shoot + RB VE, shoot keirathi as we had planned. That resulted in VE living. (I was against the VE shot entirely) After that I sent in all the actions. The fourth cycle (whenever cosmic got lynched) was the most interesting. We were in a really bad spot and kita did a PYP:I-esque maneuvre in lying to layabout about the recruit. It was a great move-we suspected that we might have to kill cosmic but were not sure how. By lying to layabout he ensured that we could plan a cosmic lynch and he also found out exactly what the third party's goals were (though we were not aware what would happen if he died-we went on the assumption that layabout would be left with no wincon, worst case basically) Overall I think our most impressive effort was killing cosmic day 4 so fluidly. Part of it comes down to how passively (IMO) cosmic played, but I think we did really well in coordinating that lynch. | ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
| ||
|
DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
| ||
|
RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 30 2013 16:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Pretty much everybody played passively this game though...not to belittle your efforts but it sure as hell seemed like an easy game from the scum QT POV. I don't think that's true. People didn't play passively all the time, it just became more passive as it went on as we killed/lynched threats and town became discouraged. IMO the game was too active days 1 and 2. We shot or lynched the townies with the potential to make sense immediately. On day 1, half the town sheeped my case on greymist. By the time day 2 was over I think the thread was at 120 some pages, that's just insane. Even just reading that will take you hours, without even speaking of analysing posts or even trying to meta analyse. A lot of it comes down to people just posting for the sake of posting, splitting their attention too much, and not doing enough to read before posting. Sure, lurking is bad, and you shouldn't necessarily lurk, but consolidate your posts so that town is not disorganised. The best scumhunters on the forum all post very little in comparison to the average player, but rarely do they actually get lynched because they actually take the time to read and know what's going on. I think the only real exception to that would be marv, who posts quite a lot compared to the likes of Foolishness/sandro/syllo/Ver/Incog etc. On March 30 2013 16:49 DarthPunk wrote: It was frustrating to argue against you Ryu. Your arguments were incredibly retarded but you succeeded in making town ignore me by shitting all over everything I said. hahaha chalk that up to no fear, I guess. My only fear is a vigi when I'm scum. | ||
|
Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
Blazinghand in the Obs QT Mocsta the point is that this town isn't actually incompetent. Town competence is measured in a different way than most people think. Let me explain: During late D1 and N1, when we were discussing NKs, the three NKs I pushed hardest were: GreyMist, Ace, VE, Sandroba, and Mr. Wiggles. I also had a few others I was thinking about, but those guys I really wanted dead. Why? Because right or wrong, these guys are natural leaders. And although I was initially thinking "I hope scum wins, town doesn't deserve to win this" I really think I've walked back that sentiment. A lot of townies individually played quite well given the circumstances. This strikes me as a pretty average TL town in terms of quality, but a few bad mislynches has deprived the town of leaders. Early in the game, leaders are pretty important. Town is flailing around right now not because this town is incompetent, but because the conversational elements necessary to catch scum have all been lynched or shot before they could really develop. Zona once mentioned there are different player archetypes and they fit together interestingly. Some players, like me, check the thread a lot and post a lot. Some players check the thread a few times a day, and read the full thread, and post a fair amount. Some players only check in once or twice a day, and post more rarely. Orthogonally, you can also classify town player's skill level / mindset. A small number of townies are actively bad. Not talking about those atm. Another slightly larger group of townies is able to cut through the chaff and find scum, posting excellent cases. These guys, when they roll town, are town leaders. The majority of town players are not town leaders, but can recognize a good and well-founded case when they see one. This is why it's so important as scum to eliminate townies who can lead good lynches. When we shot VE and Keirathi N1 it was because they are both capable of stabilizing town and leading it. Luckily, VE has a big weakness for pissing contests, so when he survived, I was able to OMGUS him pretty hard and prevent him from being effective at least until I was shot. Our N2 hits were on Vivax and Sciberbia. Normally Vivax wouldn't merit a hit but one of us had gotten a blueread on him. Sciberbia was on our short list of "potential town leaders" along with VE, which is why he was shot. We still weren't sure what the deal was with VE and he was unbalanced enough we were willing to let him live another day. Basically, we were shooting calm guys who were capable of corralling the typical townie, the average player who knows a good case when he sees it but has trouble constantly writing them in the heat of the game. The Lynches D1, D2, and D3 basically helped behead town. The N3 kills I didn't have input on, being dead, but the VE shot is obvious: the man can't be allowed to gain momentum. All my attempts to fling shit at him died with my flip, which means he was going to be obvious-town leader going into the lategame. The coag shot was more questionable, but we basically shot him because 1) he was gradually catching us all, and 2) some players thought he blueslipped. FWIW I think coag would have been valuable to town at LYLO just because the guy has some good analysis skills, despite what was said. The N5 kills were a bit funny. We didn't meant to shoot DP/Test, we meant to shoot TPS/Test, but the host accidentally flipped DP and Test and there's no taking that back. TPS because he was gradually calming down, Test since he shot me. DP wasn't the worst accidental NK but not a valuable one either. You'll note that looking at the list of players alive right now, although it's not like these dudes are obviously bad, there are no leaders to provide direction. Most of the town leaders died via lynch or were really mad when they died, so their last words were not recorded or referenced seriously by the others. I don't think this town was unusually bad, but the leadership was shot out from under them, the thread was chaotic, and a lot of scum players played really well. I'd have been lynched eventually, but town now is rudderless. Ace, Wiggles, VE, Kei, Sandro/Moc, Grey, Scib-- there are a lot of people who might have united town and fought us. Even Ace, for all his follies, at least would have been able to direct the lynch. The only real danger scum had of losing was 3p. CC came very close to winning, probably closer than anyone besides me or him realized at the time. Ryu probably had it figured out that 3p was close to a victory, but yeah. I don't think town "deserves" to lose this game, because the mistakes made weren't huger than the mistakes a lot of town makes. I do think scum will rightly win, though. If town does somehow pull this off, they will have earned it: it won't be easy. | ||
|
WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
| ||
|
ThePeashooter
United States100 Posts
| ||
|
Blazinghand
United States25551 Posts
| ||
|
RyuSuzaku
Japan139 Posts
On March 30 2013 17:13 ThePeashooter wrote: You play like a complete asshole. That is not a compliment. Your spammy post style is not a legitimate play style and its utterly discouraging. it's not an illegitimate strategy at all. He was scum, his interest is in getting town disorganised. Posting a lot accomplishes this and nothing he did broke any rules. If you don't like players who do that, make a policy to lynch or pressure them when they do it, and punish them for it. Trust me when I say you will probably discourage townies from contributing, and it'll probably backfire. You have to be good enough to realize when a player needs to be ignored/lynched for posting too much. | ||
| ||
